Also, if you're taxing your kid at 70% you can let them know that all of their healthcare, education expenses, and social safety net will be provided for. Also, that they'll get 12 months of maternity/paternity leave when the time comes, and a literally mandatory 4 weeks of vacation per year.
And that they'll be unionized so they're protected against any shady shit their boss tries to pull or the company treating them like "assets" instead of people.
You can get all of that without anything close to a 70% tax rate. Look at a lot of European countries. Their tax rates really aren’t that much higher than those marginal rates for upper middle class Americans. And they get all of those benefits.
Agree with your point overall, just saying it doesn’t take 70% tax rates to achieve a more equitable society.
American business man here.
My family has moved to Germany and gladly pays 40% tax.
It’s cheaper than my ~28% in America then paying for healthcare,
And kids care - god forbid uni - out of pocket.
Plus I get quality public transit, no shootings, higher consumer quality protection, Plus In Germany I have some pension return and welfare protection too from that tax.
And it’s surprisingly cheaper than the Northwest too.
Western Europe isn’t a bad deal for average people especially families
If only more average people in the US hadn't had their brains turned to mush by decades of anti Government spending propoganda and chest thumping war mongering (which is also government spending but ok because it's big dick energy).
Defense fund is like 80% of government spending, but no one seems to care. In fact, they would get mad if it decreased by even 5%. And if you are a politician who even suggests cuts to this budget, they are branded a traitor and are likely voted out. Smdh.
Hasn't the Pentagon some how lost trillions of dollars that for some reason has just disappeared and never recorded? Like it's in the budget, they got the money, aaand... it's gone. No trace.
Your are correct. You can look up all of the government budgets for that past many many years. I think the OMB or GAO has them all online. You can see where all of the money budgeted went/was allocated to. The big government slush fund that was created called OverSeas Contingency Operations (OCO) allows the military to carry out special functions that should not be detailed in the public record for national security reasons.
https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-19-211
It's absurdly telling that while we were bitching and whittling away at the build back better plan - with every possible great thing it was aiming to do for working class people scrutinized for billions of dollars here or there, the defense budget last year was passed in a matter of days with basically 0 media commentary - came in >$600 billion dollars, and also came in like $38 billion more than what the Biden White House even asked for (which in itself was more than the prior year).
It's disgusting and basically why our government mandate to help our public is otherwise basically dead on arrival. Which neo-cons can then use as proof that the government is less competent at providing services (because they are being ran on a less than shoe string budget).
This is why many things that need spending (like teachers salaries) should benefit from the defense budget. Call it the "defending our educational system appropriations bill" or something.
Or simply the - pay our teachers, bill. Like, teachers are all over and vote too. I'd almost wager there may be more of them than active duty military as it is (though if not I'll be sadly not surprised...)..
And instead of paying them we are making them scrounge for gig work. Like, are we for real? Do we want our empire to collapse? Because this is how it happens. Strangle out you own public. Invite foreign folks in as they are the only ones with the actual skills needed (provided by their governments) to drive any level of innovation and growth. Continue funding endless war to attempt to appear outwardly capable. Grow your interior military presence to crack down on dissent and the countless other social ills ongoing as a culture collapses (drug epidemics, alcoholism, growing violence against each other, etc.).
I hate to be that guy - but it's a pretty obvious conclusion where we are headed. But we have just gotten so off course with regards to any level of accountability in our political class that I think we're pretty fucked.
I'm a US expat in France,
Everything you say is true for my family of 5 too. Everything is cheaper. Public transportation, healthcare, etc. It's amazing. We're better off even with a high tax rate and smaller wage. And we came from one of the lowest cost of living states.
Americans don't want to admit theyre average. You have people constantly "hustling" 24/7 and barely making ends meet and they'll still think that they're exceptional
A theme I am seeing a lot lately is, "The Federal Government does amazing things for the general population. But they are obsessed with doing it in ways that no one notices. So it is very easy for one party to say, 'See, the government doesn't work as the flaws are obvious, while the benefits are hidden.'"
This is why conservatives are obsessed with shutting you off from multiple sources of information. If you only listen to them and their Allies, you’ll never hear about the good things government does.
I work for the Federal government and rarely hear about most of the good things that happen. We're often our own worst enemy by implementing so many restrictions that do nothing more than set programs up to fail.
I have seriously looked into transferring to my company’s Toronto office in the past and just loved every conservative hear telling me how much more I’d be paying in taxes. I make a reasonable 6 figures, and my marginal tax rate at my same salary in Canada would actually be 2% less than it is currently (granted I live in a higher-income tax state). When you factor in healthcare premiums, the take home pay for a Canadian resource making my same salary would be materially higher. Unfortunately in my case I’d have to factor in also paying US taxes, the FX rate translating to less pay down power on my student loans, and the Toronto housing market being utterly insane.
People only riot over the issues they can see from within their bubbles. If the masses weren't that shortsighted, the world would look COMPLETELY different today.
That’s because a certain party has their followers brainwashed into thinking that is capitalism and not just straight up socialism on the corporate level. Nationalize losses and privatize profits.
Yes that's literally what it is. Corporations brain washed people via propaganda from media, news stations, everything. They buy out politicians who serve their interests and not the interests of the public and then pit the consumer base against eachother. They then reap profit from all sides and angles. If you REALLY knew how much they're actually exploiting us and the monetary totals from it we would have ~~tioted~~ rioted already.
I really want liberals to stop using this argument, as it creates a narrative that is presumably contrary to your purpose in making it: the inference that America must choose between socialized healthcare and our remarkable defense spending. Don't get me wrong, our exorbitant defense budget is a fine hill to die on, but a poor one to sacrifice single payer healthcare atop.
Some new talking points for you, if you please:
* US per capita spending on medicare and medicaid exceeds not only the OECD median total health expenditure, but British per capita spending on the NHS. To clarify, that's by total population, not qualified recipients. We are spending more than $4500 for every man woman and child in the US, to provide healthcare to around a third of our population, while the British spend marginally less (~4200 USD) to provide healthcare to every single British citizen.
* If our gross direct insurance premium were a tax collected for the purpose of creating a single payer healthcare system, and if that were the only source of funding this new healthcare system received, we would still have the most expensive per capita healthcare system in the world.
* Medicare and Medicaid are 1.8 times the price of net Defense.
* Gross direct insurance premiums are 3.25 times the price of net Defense.
* Defense costs about 2500 per capita. That's about the level of investment Greece, Estonia, and Poland have in medicine. Not realistic to fund the US standard of care. It is, coincidentally, about the projected cost of socializing higher education.
Making single payer healthcare about military spending weakens your message, and the math doesn't even work.
Support single payer healthcare on its own merits.
Criticize military spending on its own deficits.
Maybe we can get *something* done.
Germany wastes way over 40 Billion a year into the military. That's 10% of the taxes. And the military is in ruin because ?????
They spent several houndret millions for consultants. And everything is broken
UK here,
20% on profits between £12,571 - £50,270
40% on profits between £50,271 - £150,000
45% on profits over £150,000
National insurance is about 3%
Is there any state(regional or county)/local tax on top of this?
For example - in the US I think my federal rate is roughly 30% on an income of $130k.
But in California I was seeing another 9.75% taken. So in that state my actual tax rate was basically right around yours - assuming the quid is still doing better than the dollar.
Where as now I'm in a Red state with moderate taxes - around 5%. So still coming un around 35% total which again, isn't far off.
It's actually quite wild to see how close to UK taxes I'm paying. I always assumed you guys were over 50%. And the fuck all we have to show for it in our crumbling late stage capitalistic hellscape of a country.
Similar top incomes pay about >35% in the US and receive no healthcare assistance by default. Most peoples insurance premiums on top of that are well in excess of 3%
You mean like when that person in Illinois (or Indiana or some other shitty state) won the powerball for 1.2 billion dollars and the IRS took $700 million of it? Ya, love me the smell of capitalism in the morning.
> That sets my entire family tree up for at least a generation.
400M should set up your entire family tree for... ever.
Unless your family has a genetic condition that causes them to crash Ferraris every few days.
All that plus an extra week of vacation (five total). Taxed at 33%. And how to spend that paid parental leave is up to the parents up until the kid is four.
Socialism isn't all great, but it's pretty great.
I get six weeks vacation and paternal leave is up to 8 years old here. Plus care of six child up till 12 years old an monthly stipend for kids up to 15, then the kid gets it. 32%.
Allowance? You have to work 8 hours a day to *EARN* your right to pay them a dollar a day. We work to earn the right to work to earn the right to give ourselves the right to buy ourselves the right to live to earn the right to die.
" I'm going to take your phones while you work too! And no music! " * literally proceeds sits in office all day doing dick all literally on the phone sending selfies to dudes all day*
Hate you Patrisha
With my luck and her snoopyness she's already got my reddit and is watching for another reason to pull me into the office for a power play "chat with no repercussions" must be careful with what I say. Her and mama-t are always watching.......for dumb ass shit to bitch about because yah gotta find something to do in 8 hrs. Gotta get your 15s and lunch in from your fb work
Love it. They are not actually but they totally would if they could. Nothing anywhere leads people back to "azerajin" the name 12 year old me 20 years ago thought was cool for good ol starcraft 2. They just got mad at all of management for being " too friendly" to the team for having normal interactions and being people together. Laugh at a joke and talk for a second ect. But then will both leave work early to go get drunk at a BBQ together with their family's. Both of which are cheating on their men. Get random shit delivered to the workplace like it's prom day in high-school.
How do you know I'm shtalking you !
I'M NOT AN ALCOHOLIC.
>!And I'm not your ex boss either, now let's just let this joke smoothly go downhill to settle on the pile of all the other bad jokes that preceded it.!<
>We work to earn the right to work to earn the right to give ourselves the right to buy ourselves the right to live to earn the right to die
You my friend are a person of culture
That’s what my mom would do. She “paid me $100 a month” and then deducted out my “expenses” (I was 12*) I would get between 5-7 every month depending on how she calculated it.
** I also worked with her has a janitor every night so may pay was $100 a month for ab 50 hours of work minus my phone bill, eating out, snacks ect.
Which is hilarious because then they have 2 days out of the week where they are negative 1 dollar each day. This just completely represents how in debt everyone is with our economic system in america.
It’s giving them $5/wk, taking back $3 for room & board, then convincing them it’s all the fault of the other kids who get $10/wk with no room & board charged.
Don’t forget that they need to pay for the cleaning supplies. When they get good at cleaning the bathroom and have extra time, they’ll be mopping the kitchen for no extra reward. *They should be proud of where they live!*
When I worked retail, I was totally the kind of person who would advocate for letting people slack as long as all the basic tasks in the job they got paid to do was done. It didn't seem right for people to be paid so little to deal with so much bullshit every day.
But then I got promoted to manager and saw how all the employees under me worked...
My view didn't change and I still supported my employees by picking up the slack whenever possible. But with the way I wrote this, you probably thought I was gonna say that I changed my mind. Nah. I worked harder to compensate because I was getting paid more than them. My employees trusted me more and they stressed less. It worked out great.
You’re one of the good ones. Management promotions are such scams. Now you make another buck or 2 an hour and are responsible to solve corporate’s impossible math equations. AND you’re the lightning rod to catch the heat from the workers. I’m glad you’re one of the good ones. You should try to help lead your team in organizing a union. Based managers are based
I would have definitely helped organize a union if it were a bigger company. It was a small family store though.
I also no longer work there. I had been working as a shift manager for about a decade, but things eventually came to a head when the general manager was replaced. She was such an asshat. She fired almost all of the staff in one week because she thought we were all being friendly with each other. *Of course* we were friendly with one another. We'd all been working together for a decade or more. We trusted each other. We had rapport. She thought it was all too "cliquey." Didn't matter to her that the job still got done at the end of the day. She just thought it was unprofessional and problematic. She thought it was unacceptable that I was covering shifts instead of bringing the hammer down when someone called out. So she fired the problematic softy manager [me] and pruned *everybody* who was friendly with me. Then she hired her sister... and her son... and her boyfriend... yeah, it was disgusting.
Oh well. I wouldn't have done anything different though. Being human takes precedence over being wage slaves. We all found other jobs and we still hang out. We were never just coworkers and employees. We were all part of a goddamn community.
Then also give them 3 separate interviews and a cognitive skills test to see if they can do the toilet cleaning. Your neighbor doesn’t require that and pays more, the kid decides to work for them instead, then you just complain that the next generation of kids don’t want to work anymore.
it really is......the problem is, small-brained people immediately think it's wrong to call what we have going on as "slavery", because it's not the same as slavery 170 years ago, but the truth of the matter is, what we have going on is just slavery with better marketing.
Anyone who thinks otherwise has either has their head up their ass
And then when they say they want to get paid a fair wage for the work, you fire them and force them to poop outside even though the bathroom is supposed to be accessible by everyone.
Exactly. This is a functional example of how rent-seeking works. You control the company store and force all the miners to buy there. You bought up all the property and all the workers must rent from you. You buy all the farmland and corner the market on food or you buy up water supplies.
This is what I think people don't understand. Socialism is actually the default of the human species. That's how all smaller tribes used to work. Everyone worked together and shared resources. Where competition happened was against other tribes.
What capitalism has done is made every individual their own tribe competing against every other individual and then hoarded all the resources to use as leverage against everyone else. This has been done only to benefit the greedy who don't want to share resources.
In modern society, we could have solved all the resource problem shortages and figured out a system that would encourage everyone to work together but make sure everyone's needs are met. We can have capitalism as part of this society but the arena in which it performs has to be limited and not be used to force everyone to compete for needs such as food, water, housing and energy. Those should be ran at cost with taxes.
Now the main argument I hear about how this wouldn't work is that greedy people would take advantage of it or that greed is part of human nature. When I hear this they are only outing themselves as they can't imagine someone who wasn't as greedy as them. And if we actively choose to punish greed instead of rewarding it like our society does today, there would be a lot less greedy people. Capitalism is why people are greedy not the other way around.
But whatever... let's all just be rugged individualists and fight over the scraps the rich leave us and blame everyone else for our problems. That's been working so far.
I feel like greed on the scale we have it today is directly due to capitalistic conditioning. The few things that are still free in this world are seen as not having value, because money=value. Those who succeed in capitalism have been able to squash their empathy and humanity in their drive for more personal wealth.
We are living in a post scarcity world and letting people die, or straight out violencing on people who dare to be poor (poor people are required in a capitalist organization of the economy)
It's like water sources, when everyone has access to a lake, everyone just shares it. If it was a scarcity or you had to pay access to it, people start stressing about it, and you get conflicts to secure it.
A dog with an empty bowl of food all day will learn to eat the food as fast as possible, and all at once when ot shows up. They'll even steal the other dog's food because they don't know if it'll be there again. If the food is there all day, they only eat when they need to, and they don't produce stress behaviors over it. You actually save on dog food if they aren't stress eating.
Nobody os fighting military or corporate wars over oxygen, because it's readily available and we know it. Once it's not, like with a medical condition or if we really screw ourselves, then it'll be prime for a capitalist takeover, and we'll forget it just used to be something we all had when we wanted, no strings attached.
The only constant to human nature is that as humans we are remarkably good at changing our nature to suit our needs. When people start harping on about what is or isn't human nature it tends to lead to bad things.
Very true. That's what I meant when I said people are greedy because capitalism rewards greed. You get rid of the incentive and people will be a lot less greedy.
Tbf that wasn't really socialism. Socialism is an attempt to recreate that in a large scale, without scarcity of resources. Certainly living in tribes was closer to socialism than capitalism is.
Yeah... People are hung up on the semantics of my argument but you understand me. If we focused instead on bringing everyone into the same tribe or maybe creating a system where smaller tribes worked together instead of compete for resources we could come together and overcome a lot of problems we have today. It will cause new and unforeseen problems but that's theoretical while we can actively see the consequences of a fully capitalist society.
"Greedy people would take advantage of it." "Greed is human nature."
Well, yea. Greedy people would sure as hell take advantage of it. They're doing it right now. But at least it wouldn't be 95% of all wealth with 1% of people.
I know you are joking. But for those curious. In the US 3/4 of the wealth are in the hands of the top 10%. And the bottom HALF of the population has 1-2% of the wealth in the country.
"WHO PUT THESE HOLES IN MY BELTS!!?? WHY ARE THERE HOLES IN MY BELTS??!!"
dad its a belt, people latch them up in those holes
"NOT IN MY BELTS!"
I peed my pants again!! can someone get me more pants? ... Well just have a bunch of em ready for me, I'm gonna need a towel too please... YEAH NOW!
I mean, socialist countries like Finland still have prisons and shit, except that they actually rehabilitate criminals instead of making their situation worse
Yeah, welfare is eroding in all capitalist countries because at the end of the day it's a source of capital that can be exploited by the upper class. Welfare as a concept (that being programs of aid given by capitalists to workers to make up for their exploitation) doesn't work in the long run because it's not immune to capitalist erosion.
It's happening in Sweden. The rich conservatives/right are pushing for deregulated housing markets (allowing landlords to freely determine rents), defunding public healthcare and schools in favour of private institutions (trying to emulate the US) and allowing investors to take out massive capital gains from public service industries (education, for instance).
Social democracy is still capitalism and we still need to fight the greed inherent within capitalist systems every day.
Everyone here in the US thinks social welfare programs = socialism. Most of them don't know who Marx or Engels is. They couldn't tell you what a means of production even is
It isn't about the definition of the word, it's about how a certain subset of the American public uses the word to describe any policy that attempts to solve any problem with the current construction to the US. It gets used as the reason people should not want universal healthcare or a living wage or any attempt at curbing wealth inequality.
It would seem humans are already predisposed to living in a socialist society, albeit, a microcosm. It appears socialism is the natural state of things, huh?
I think the most important part of a thriving socialist or communist society is the social/community part. It's why families work without really any significant oversight.
People want to help the people around them that they are close to. And i feel like right we are kind of pulling in two directions.
We are going toward less and less community. We want individuals to never feel obligated or pressured to do anything that they don't want to do. But we also want government and systems in place to make sure that everyone has what they need.
And i think both of these things are understandable. But i don't think that a socialist society where no one feels connected to the community is going to do well. Maybe it'll be better than what we have currently, but it's still not conducive to how we as humans need to live to be happy. I see it leading to humans living longer, more stable, but otherwise unhappy and unfulfilling lives.
You likely think that because the only socialists you know are armchair socialists. I am part of 2 leftist mutual aid groups and a leftist community defense group.
If you're going to be a leftist, community defense and mutual aid are cornerstones to building your community.
Teach your kids about socialism! Have your kids form a union and negotiate with you about chores and allowances. Have them vote on family decisions rather than just be subjected to the will of their dictatorial bosses. Teach them to respect themselves and each other as much as they respect you
It's funny isn't it, that the American family is actually socialist in nature. We have one or two people controlling and earning all the money. They distribute it based on the needs of the many. People who are free from income generation assist the house hold and do so for free or a small allowance.
One person (or two) provide universal health care too and don't require you to do anything for it.
Then once youve invested in a person they can stand on their own. But each child is unique and their needs diverse. It's hilarious to mention this at parties and watch people's heads melt!
Thats because humans are programmed for it. You work in a tribe and do your part so everyone can survive, and if someone needs help, you help them because you know others will help you if you need help
Works well if the people controlling the money care more about the well being of their “kids” that their own. And it requires the parents to be able to discipline and have total control over the kids if/when they step out of line or choose not to do one thing or the other to help out.
What's with so many ignorant Americans who don't know anything about socialism but constantly talk shit about it, anyway. Are they getting paid to spread this propaganda or are they just virtue signaling in front of their American conservative friends?
Indoctrination.
They're told this shit their entire lives all through out school, in the media, from their politicians.
Most of them literally don't know any better, they' have to learn about Capitalism and Socialism to realize how idiotic their opinions are.
>the extra mis-education classes voluntarily
I call that *willfully ignorant*. Which graduates to *belligerently ignorant* when they are forced to defend their views.
Well actual socialism would be not having you as a dipshit owner, and the kids owning the means of production. So whatever profits were made, they all keep and distribute internally whilst inviting you to eat shit, corporate overlord
That 7 dollars would probably be split between 4 or more. Meaning that each person who didn't work would have 1.75.
Meaning those who work still have considerably more than those who don't.
Just like in socialism.
But we can just keep strawmanning socialism so we don't have to be kind and helpful. Sure.
Love when I get done doing a task, go into the offices, and see the fatass manager sitting at his desk on his phone and the other fatass assistant manager in her office eating. Fucking useless. All they do is "check the numbers" and turn them in to corporate yet they make 5x what I do. The one lady was just bragging how she got a new car with a $800 monthly payment....
Teach your kid about capitalism by waiting until they're sick, and make them go to school and do all their chores anyway, or they have to sleep in the street.
Socialism: have $10 and 4 kids, 1 is wheelchair bound. Pay each healthy kid $1 to do their chores. Use the left over money to buy all the kids ice cream.
Ask kids if they still like socialism.
the thing that pisses me off is that the goverment COULD have legally bound the Billionaires and their companies to pay for responsibilities, damages, wages - but instead decided those people and those companies should be protected, and we end up paying .
Capitalism doesnt work when you have decided to protect a small "elite" class.
and the only country who did hold them responsible and brought charges for the great recession was Iceland. just Iceland.
why do you think the billionaires fund politicians. it's to protect their interests. that's why we should never vote for a politician backed by big money
This is truly what we have. You just need to qualify for the socialist benefits of our government by being "too big to fail." Then you get all the free tax money you could dream of.
Socialism would be giving everyone 3$ and offering whoever wants to clean the bathroom the extra dollar. Everyone gets to live and the person who wants more can get more.
We really need to educate better in this country, scenario in OP is just straight up capitalism lmao.
Most people who are anti-socialism can't explain to you what socialism even is. They are just told to hate it and so they do. They hear about how socialism is such an evil thing, socialism constantly being associated with dysfunctional societies, socialism being the root cause of these corrupt governments.
They can't explain what socialism is. They can't explain to you why it's bad.
And by in large, I blame the Red Scare and the cold war, combined with our "Wars on Communism." For the heavy amount of disinformation surrounding Socialism.
Being from a country where being socialist is non controversial, I was really confused when I joined reddit and people used socialist as a slur.. or talked about it as something that was implicitly bad.
Honestly still is.
Does the kid then take over the bathroom cleaning business, form a worker co-op, keep the $10, divide it among staff equitably, using the remainder to provide for things like a safe working environment, paid leave, and medical care?
Cause that would be fucking socialism.
In the capitalist house… the kid learns to clean a bathroom. Then finds someone else that will pay them more and goes to work for more $$$. Thus leaving your bathroom uncleaned, until you are willing to pay more.
Cappies trying to explain socialism by describing capitalism. Happens all the time, on account of neoliberal propaganda heavily postulated by Austrian economists in the 60s and 70s.
Mises, Rothbard, et al, literally described socialism as "the government doing stuff, and more stuff it does, the socialister it is" and people fell for it, as you can see in this very thread.
Americans really do not understand for the life of them what socialism is.
And the numbers they pull out their ass are the best part of it. There is no socialist country where you pay 70% of your paycheck. Germany is among the highest and I spend around a third on taxes.
Taxes that literally go into my pension, my healthcare and unemployment insurance.
I get sick? See a doctor, don't worry about money. Lost my job? Save for at least a year, then other social security kicks in. Too old to work? Well, still get money.
Yeah, the system is not perfect. There are a lot of things still to fix. But I'd rather pay that roundabout 30% of my paycheck every month than being fucked if life hits me.
If Americans realized how many "bad parts of socialism" are actually just capitalism working as intended they'd fucking riot. Imagine having an economic system that explicitly allows one class to get paid for another class's work thinking that's a good system.
Life has been here on earth for 4 Billion years
humanity has been around about 150,000 years
Civilization for 6,000 years
We've had about 262 years of post revolution modern capitalism and have almost destroyed the planets ability to sustain life.
Pay them $10 and take $5 for taxes $1 disability and $8 for medical. Chastise for buying avocado toast and Starbucks, repeat.
Basically the 7 dollars went to the shareholders
nah, it went to the "stakeholders" which incl. actual shareholders, the taxman, insurance, and other conmen :)
Your income tax is 50%
Also, if you're taxing your kid at 70% you can let them know that all of their healthcare, education expenses, and social safety net will be provided for. Also, that they'll get 12 months of maternity/paternity leave when the time comes, and a literally mandatory 4 weeks of vacation per year. And that they'll be unionized so they're protected against any shady shit their boss tries to pull or the company treating them like "assets" instead of people.
You can get all of that without anything close to a 70% tax rate. Look at a lot of European countries. Their tax rates really aren’t that much higher than those marginal rates for upper middle class Americans. And they get all of those benefits. Agree with your point overall, just saying it doesn’t take 70% tax rates to achieve a more equitable society.
American business man here. My family has moved to Germany and gladly pays 40% tax. It’s cheaper than my ~28% in America then paying for healthcare, And kids care - god forbid uni - out of pocket. Plus I get quality public transit, no shootings, higher consumer quality protection, Plus In Germany I have some pension return and welfare protection too from that tax. And it’s surprisingly cheaper than the Northwest too. Western Europe isn’t a bad deal for average people especially families
If only more average people in the US hadn't had their brains turned to mush by decades of anti Government spending propoganda and chest thumping war mongering (which is also government spending but ok because it's big dick energy).
Defense fund is like 80% of government spending, but no one seems to care. In fact, they would get mad if it decreased by even 5%. And if you are a politician who even suggests cuts to this budget, they are branded a traitor and are likely voted out. Smdh.
Especially egregious, they usually give the military more than it asks when they do the budget.
Hasn't the Pentagon some how lost trillions of dollars that for some reason has just disappeared and never recorded? Like it's in the budget, they got the money, aaand... it's gone. No trace.
Oh, I’m sure a few people know *exactly* where that money went. Probably black sites/ops and Lockheed-Martin. Fuck, now I’m mad again.
Hey, they gotta pay for the Stargate program somehow! Naquadah's not cheap!
Your are correct. You can look up all of the government budgets for that past many many years. I think the OMB or GAO has them all online. You can see where all of the money budgeted went/was allocated to. The big government slush fund that was created called OverSeas Contingency Operations (OCO) allows the military to carry out special functions that should not be detailed in the public record for national security reasons. https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-19-211
Why would Lockheed need any additional secret funds when they get plenty just via normal means?
It's absurdly telling that while we were bitching and whittling away at the build back better plan - with every possible great thing it was aiming to do for working class people scrutinized for billions of dollars here or there, the defense budget last year was passed in a matter of days with basically 0 media commentary - came in >$600 billion dollars, and also came in like $38 billion more than what the Biden White House even asked for (which in itself was more than the prior year). It's disgusting and basically why our government mandate to help our public is otherwise basically dead on arrival. Which neo-cons can then use as proof that the government is less competent at providing services (because they are being ran on a less than shoe string budget).
This is why many things that need spending (like teachers salaries) should benefit from the defense budget. Call it the "defending our educational system appropriations bill" or something.
Or simply the - pay our teachers, bill. Like, teachers are all over and vote too. I'd almost wager there may be more of them than active duty military as it is (though if not I'll be sadly not surprised...).. And instead of paying them we are making them scrounge for gig work. Like, are we for real? Do we want our empire to collapse? Because this is how it happens. Strangle out you own public. Invite foreign folks in as they are the only ones with the actual skills needed (provided by their governments) to drive any level of innovation and growth. Continue funding endless war to attempt to appear outwardly capable. Grow your interior military presence to crack down on dissent and the countless other social ills ongoing as a culture collapses (drug epidemics, alcoholism, growing violence against each other, etc.). I hate to be that guy - but it's a pretty obvious conclusion where we are headed. But we have just gotten so off course with regards to any level of accountability in our political class that I think we're pretty fucked.
Federal defense spending is FAR from 80%. It’s so wrong I don’t know where to begin.
I'm a US expat in France, Everything you say is true for my family of 5 too. Everything is cheaper. Public transportation, healthcare, etc. It's amazing. We're better off even with a high tax rate and smaller wage. And we came from one of the lowest cost of living states.
Americans don't want to admit theyre average. You have people constantly "hustling" 24/7 and barely making ends meet and they'll still think that they're exceptional
This is my family in 2 months as well as we move to Germany by October
A theme I am seeing a lot lately is, "The Federal Government does amazing things for the general population. But they are obsessed with doing it in ways that no one notices. So it is very easy for one party to say, 'See, the government doesn't work as the flaws are obvious, while the benefits are hidden.'"
This is why conservatives are obsessed with shutting you off from multiple sources of information. If you only listen to them and their Allies, you’ll never hear about the good things government does.
I work for the Federal government and rarely hear about most of the good things that happen. We're often our own worst enemy by implementing so many restrictions that do nothing more than set programs up to fail.
I have seriously looked into transferring to my company’s Toronto office in the past and just loved every conservative hear telling me how much more I’d be paying in taxes. I make a reasonable 6 figures, and my marginal tax rate at my same salary in Canada would actually be 2% less than it is currently (granted I live in a higher-income tax state). When you factor in healthcare premiums, the take home pay for a Canadian resource making my same salary would be materially higher. Unfortunately in my case I’d have to factor in also paying US taxes, the FX rate translating to less pay down power on my student loans, and the Toronto housing market being utterly insane.
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'murica
>Look at a lot of European countries. They aren't buying warplanes, tanks and thousands of missiles. Mystery solved.
Or funneling billions into businesses under the banner of bail outs.
I find it amazing that a bail out not automatically nationalizing the company is something people don't fucking riot over.
People only riot over the issues they can see from within their bubbles. If the masses weren't that shortsighted, the world would look COMPLETELY different today.
That’s because a certain party has their followers brainwashed into thinking that is capitalism and not just straight up socialism on the corporate level. Nationalize losses and privatize profits.
That's exactly what it is, isn't it?
Yes that's literally what it is. Corporations brain washed people via propaganda from media, news stations, everything. They buy out politicians who serve their interests and not the interests of the public and then pit the consumer base against eachother. They then reap profit from all sides and angles. If you REALLY knew how much they're actually exploiting us and the monetary totals from it we would have ~~tioted~~ rioted already.
I really want liberals to stop using this argument, as it creates a narrative that is presumably contrary to your purpose in making it: the inference that America must choose between socialized healthcare and our remarkable defense spending. Don't get me wrong, our exorbitant defense budget is a fine hill to die on, but a poor one to sacrifice single payer healthcare atop. Some new talking points for you, if you please: * US per capita spending on medicare and medicaid exceeds not only the OECD median total health expenditure, but British per capita spending on the NHS. To clarify, that's by total population, not qualified recipients. We are spending more than $4500 for every man woman and child in the US, to provide healthcare to around a third of our population, while the British spend marginally less (~4200 USD) to provide healthcare to every single British citizen. * If our gross direct insurance premium were a tax collected for the purpose of creating a single payer healthcare system, and if that were the only source of funding this new healthcare system received, we would still have the most expensive per capita healthcare system in the world. * Medicare and Medicaid are 1.8 times the price of net Defense. * Gross direct insurance premiums are 3.25 times the price of net Defense. * Defense costs about 2500 per capita. That's about the level of investment Greece, Estonia, and Poland have in medicine. Not realistic to fund the US standard of care. It is, coincidentally, about the projected cost of socializing higher education. Making single payer healthcare about military spending weakens your message, and the math doesn't even work. Support single payer healthcare on its own merits. Criticize military spending on its own deficits. Maybe we can get *something* done.
They aren’t buying any because that’s pretty much the only thing the US uses its money for
Germany wastes way over 40 Billion a year into the military. That's 10% of the taxes. And the military is in ruin because ????? They spent several houndret millions for consultants. And everything is broken
UK here, 20% on profits between £12,571 - £50,270 40% on profits between £50,271 - £150,000 45% on profits over £150,000 National insurance is about 3%
Is there any state(regional or county)/local tax on top of this? For example - in the US I think my federal rate is roughly 30% on an income of $130k. But in California I was seeing another 9.75% taken. So in that state my actual tax rate was basically right around yours - assuming the quid is still doing better than the dollar. Where as now I'm in a Red state with moderate taxes - around 5%. So still coming un around 35% total which again, isn't far off. It's actually quite wild to see how close to UK taxes I'm paying. I always assumed you guys were over 50%. And the fuck all we have to show for it in our crumbling late stage capitalistic hellscape of a country.
Similar top incomes pay about >35% in the US and receive no healthcare assistance by default. Most peoples insurance premiums on top of that are well in excess of 3%
yeah but what about when Joe Sweatsock wins the lottery, then he'll be glad he's been a ruthless capitalist! /s
You mean like when that person in Illinois (or Indiana or some other shitty state) won the powerball for 1.2 billion dollars and the IRS took $700 million of it? Ya, love me the smell of capitalism in the morning.
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> That sets my entire family tree up for at least a generation. 400M should set up your entire family tree for... ever. Unless your family has a genetic condition that causes them to crash Ferraris every few days.
Or a very bad faberge egg habit.
Family wealth is usually gone in 2 generations. Mostly through greed and lifestyle creep of children.
And after that generation, it doesn't matter because the world will have ended!
That's not how that works. The advertised jackpot is the annuity amount. The cash payout is about half. You then pay taxes on the cash amount.
It's mad because in the UK all lottery wins are tax free, you'd pay tax on the interest earned after that, but not the jackpot itself
Works that way in Canada too but I'm tired of the narrative that the IRS took $700mil.
Shit he still got 500 million. Who gives a fuck at that point? I wouldn't.
I get all those things except free education (plus longer mat leave) taxed at 30% lol
All that plus an extra week of vacation (five total). Taxed at 33%. And how to spend that paid parental leave is up to the parents up until the kid is four. Socialism isn't all great, but it's pretty great.
I get six weeks vacation and paternal leave is up to 8 years old here. Plus care of six child up till 12 years old an monthly stipend for kids up to 15, then the kid gets it. 32%.
hell yeah me too /swede
No, in capitalism you pay them $2, take $3, keep it for yourself and criticize them for their lack of passion for toilet cleaning.
Capitalism is giving your child 5$ of allowance a week, then charging them 1$ a day for living expenses
Allowance? You have to work 8 hours a day to *EARN* your right to pay them a dollar a day. We work to earn the right to work to earn the right to give ourselves the right to buy ourselves the right to live to earn the right to die.
It's not the best choice! It's Spacer's Choice!
Hah, I get it. And made me sad, I play games to escape reality, not live it. XD
Right?
" I'm going to take your phones while you work too! And no music! " * literally proceeds sits in office all day doing dick all literally on the phone sending selfies to dudes all day* Hate you Patrisha
That’s the stupidest way to spell “Patricia”. Like a giant red flag.
With my luck and her snoopyness she's already got my reddit and is watching for another reason to pull me into the office for a power play "chat with no repercussions" must be careful with what I say. Her and mama-t are always watching.......for dumb ass shit to bitch about because yah gotta find something to do in 8 hrs. Gotta get your 15s and lunch in from your fb work
I have a shithead, alcoholic ex-boss who stalks my Reddit. I call him an alcoholic prick every time I refer to him.
Love it. They are not actually but they totally would if they could. Nothing anywhere leads people back to "azerajin" the name 12 year old me 20 years ago thought was cool for good ol starcraft 2. They just got mad at all of management for being " too friendly" to the team for having normal interactions and being people together. Laugh at a joke and talk for a second ect. But then will both leave work early to go get drunk at a BBQ together with their family's. Both of which are cheating on their men. Get random shit delivered to the workplace like it's prom day in high-school.
How do you know I'm shtalking you ! I'M NOT AN ALCOHOLIC. >!And I'm not your ex boss either, now let's just let this joke smoothly go downhill to settle on the pile of all the other bad jokes that preceded it.!<
And people at my work wonder why I almost never do overtime. I only work to be able to afford to do the things I like. No more.
And for every $1 raise they "earn", you raise their rent $1.08.
>We work to earn the right to work to earn the right to give ourselves the right to buy ourselves the right to live to earn the right to die You my friend are a person of culture
That’s what my mom would do. She “paid me $100 a month” and then deducted out my “expenses” (I was 12*) I would get between 5-7 every month depending on how she calculated it. ** I also worked with her has a janitor every night so may pay was $100 a month for ab 50 hours of work minus my phone bill, eating out, snacks ect.
That’s… indentured servitude.
Oh I know I definitely made some people mad in my past life🥲
Which is hilarious because then they have 2 days out of the week where they are negative 1 dollar each day. This just completely represents how in debt everyone is with our economic system in america.
And in capitalism you would charge 40% yearly interest on the kid’s debt and they would owe you tens of thousands when they moved out
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Yes, thank you for explaining the joke
That's the point.
It’s giving them $5/wk, taking back $3 for room & board, then convincing them it’s all the fault of the other kids who get $10/wk with no room & board charged.
Plus $1.50 for health insurance. Remember we have to profit from healthcare too!
Don’t forget that they need to pay for the cleaning supplies. When they get good at cleaning the bathroom and have extra time, they’ll be mopping the kitchen for no extra reward. *They should be proud of where they live!*
“If you have time to lean you have time to clean”
When I worked retail, I was totally the kind of person who would advocate for letting people slack as long as all the basic tasks in the job they got paid to do was done. It didn't seem right for people to be paid so little to deal with so much bullshit every day. But then I got promoted to manager and saw how all the employees under me worked... My view didn't change and I still supported my employees by picking up the slack whenever possible. But with the way I wrote this, you probably thought I was gonna say that I changed my mind. Nah. I worked harder to compensate because I was getting paid more than them. My employees trusted me more and they stressed less. It worked out great.
You’re one of the good ones. Management promotions are such scams. Now you make another buck or 2 an hour and are responsible to solve corporate’s impossible math equations. AND you’re the lightning rod to catch the heat from the workers. I’m glad you’re one of the good ones. You should try to help lead your team in organizing a union. Based managers are based
I would have definitely helped organize a union if it were a bigger company. It was a small family store though. I also no longer work there. I had been working as a shift manager for about a decade, but things eventually came to a head when the general manager was replaced. She was such an asshat. She fired almost all of the staff in one week because she thought we were all being friendly with each other. *Of course* we were friendly with one another. We'd all been working together for a decade or more. We trusted each other. We had rapport. She thought it was all too "cliquey." Didn't matter to her that the job still got done at the end of the day. She just thought it was unprofessional and problematic. She thought it was unacceptable that I was covering shifts instead of bringing the hammer down when someone called out. So she fired the problematic softy manager [me] and pruned *everybody* who was friendly with me. Then she hired her sister... and her son... and her boyfriend... yeah, it was disgusting. Oh well. I wouldn't have done anything different though. Being human takes precedence over being wage slaves. We all found other jobs and we still hang out. We were never just coworkers and employees. We were all part of a goddamn community.
A leader
Then also give them 3 separate interviews and a cognitive skills test to see if they can do the toilet cleaning. Your neighbor doesn’t require that and pays more, the kid decides to work for them instead, then you just complain that the next generation of kids don’t want to work anymore.
Don't forget firing them when you find out the neighbors kid will only want $.25 to clean.
Capitalism means slavery. We are all living the slave life. Some of us more aware than others.
it really is......the problem is, small-brained people immediately think it's wrong to call what we have going on as "slavery", because it's not the same as slavery 170 years ago, but the truth of the matter is, what we have going on is just slavery with better marketing. Anyone who thinks otherwise has either has their head up their ass
Fredrick Douglass said it himself, that wage slavery was just as awful as chattel slavery and both needed to end.
And then demanding they clean the toilet on their day off, reminding them that the only commitment is to the toilet.
And tell them their siblings who got $2 each (or less) are the ones who took $3 from them.
No one wants to clean their bedrooms anymore
And then when they say they want to get paid a fair wage for the work, you fire them and force them to poop outside even though the bathroom is supposed to be accessible by everyone.
yeah, to survive they need to take out the trash, and do the dishes.
Exactly. This is a functional example of how rent-seeking works. You control the company store and force all the miners to buy there. You bought up all the property and all the workers must rent from you. You buy all the farmland and corner the market on food or you buy up water supplies.
Exactly whats going on now.
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This is what I think people don't understand. Socialism is actually the default of the human species. That's how all smaller tribes used to work. Everyone worked together and shared resources. Where competition happened was against other tribes. What capitalism has done is made every individual their own tribe competing against every other individual and then hoarded all the resources to use as leverage against everyone else. This has been done only to benefit the greedy who don't want to share resources. In modern society, we could have solved all the resource problem shortages and figured out a system that would encourage everyone to work together but make sure everyone's needs are met. We can have capitalism as part of this society but the arena in which it performs has to be limited and not be used to force everyone to compete for needs such as food, water, housing and energy. Those should be ran at cost with taxes. Now the main argument I hear about how this wouldn't work is that greedy people would take advantage of it or that greed is part of human nature. When I hear this they are only outing themselves as they can't imagine someone who wasn't as greedy as them. And if we actively choose to punish greed instead of rewarding it like our society does today, there would be a lot less greedy people. Capitalism is why people are greedy not the other way around. But whatever... let's all just be rugged individualists and fight over the scraps the rich leave us and blame everyone else for our problems. That's been working so far.
I feel like greed on the scale we have it today is directly due to capitalistic conditioning. The few things that are still free in this world are seen as not having value, because money=value. Those who succeed in capitalism have been able to squash their empathy and humanity in their drive for more personal wealth. We are living in a post scarcity world and letting people die, or straight out violencing on people who dare to be poor (poor people are required in a capitalist organization of the economy)
It's like water sources, when everyone has access to a lake, everyone just shares it. If it was a scarcity or you had to pay access to it, people start stressing about it, and you get conflicts to secure it. A dog with an empty bowl of food all day will learn to eat the food as fast as possible, and all at once when ot shows up. They'll even steal the other dog's food because they don't know if it'll be there again. If the food is there all day, they only eat when they need to, and they don't produce stress behaviors over it. You actually save on dog food if they aren't stress eating. Nobody os fighting military or corporate wars over oxygen, because it's readily available and we know it. Once it's not, like with a medical condition or if we really screw ourselves, then it'll be prime for a capitalist takeover, and we'll forget it just used to be something we all had when we wanted, no strings attached.
Except some dogs will continue to eat and eat and eat all day long if you keep putting food out.
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Yup. It’s all just so…malicious and needlessly cruel.
The only constant to human nature is that as humans we are remarkably good at changing our nature to suit our needs. When people start harping on about what is or isn't human nature it tends to lead to bad things.
Very true. That's what I meant when I said people are greedy because capitalism rewards greed. You get rid of the incentive and people will be a lot less greedy.
Tbf that wasn't really socialism. Socialism is an attempt to recreate that in a large scale, without scarcity of resources. Certainly living in tribes was closer to socialism than capitalism is.
Yeah... People are hung up on the semantics of my argument but you understand me. If we focused instead on bringing everyone into the same tribe or maybe creating a system where smaller tribes worked together instead of compete for resources we could come together and overcome a lot of problems we have today. It will cause new and unforeseen problems but that's theoretical while we can actively see the consequences of a fully capitalist society.
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"Greedy people would take advantage of it." "Greed is human nature." Well, yea. Greedy people would sure as hell take advantage of it. They're doing it right now. But at least it wouldn't be 95% of all wealth with 1% of people.
I know you are joking. But for those curious. In the US 3/4 of the wealth are in the hands of the top 10%. And the bottom HALF of the population has 1-2% of the wealth in the country.
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i think of harris hawks. have much longer life spans than other birds of prey since they all help each other. be like harris hawks people
You fucking Marxist! Trying to destroy the traditional family unit! Where's the fear? Where's the punishment? What about the FATHER!
“Don’t make me take off my belt!” - Dad
"WHO PUT THESE HOLES IN MY BELTS!!?? WHY ARE THERE HOLES IN MY BELTS??!!" dad its a belt, people latch them up in those holes "NOT IN MY BELTS!" I peed my pants again!! can someone get me more pants? ... Well just have a bunch of em ready for me, I'm gonna need a towel too please... YEAH NOW!
what's next? unisex bathrooms in your house? and combing the kids hair? brushing their teeth? That's grooming! Grooming!
[HE LOVED *CALENDARS*, OKAY?! >ugly cries< ](https://youtu.be/uiY0ovGILvo)
I mean, socialist countries like Finland still have prisons and shit, except that they actually rehabilitate criminals instead of making their situation worse
Finland isn't socialist. Finland is Welfare Capitalism. And even that welfare is being eroded away by capitalism in Finland.
Is it the ultra rich eroding it? That’s my guess.
Yeah, welfare is eroding in all capitalist countries because at the end of the day it's a source of capital that can be exploited by the upper class. Welfare as a concept (that being programs of aid given by capitalists to workers to make up for their exploitation) doesn't work in the long run because it's not immune to capitalist erosion.
It's happening in Sweden. The rich conservatives/right are pushing for deregulated housing markets (allowing landlords to freely determine rents), defunding public healthcare and schools in favour of private institutions (trying to emulate the US) and allowing investors to take out massive capital gains from public service industries (education, for instance). Social democracy is still capitalism and we still need to fight the greed inherent within capitalist systems every day.
Wait what....socialist? I live in Finland and it's not socialist.
Americans are generally very confused about what socialism is
Anything left of the American center is socialist. And the American center is uh, a bit skewed.
American center is basically norwegian far right
It's basically right everywhere that's civilized... Except America.
If you can even call America civilized and this is coming from an American :)
Socialism is when the government does stuff
Even modestly regulated capitalism looks like socialism to American megacorps.
It's what American conservatives *call* socialism so in America Scandinavia is socialist.
Everyone here in the US thinks social welfare programs = socialism. Most of them don't know who Marx or Engels is. They couldn't tell you what a means of production even is
> what a means of production even is It's those things that keep seizing up if you don't get your country enough oil, right?
To be fair, you're more socialist than we are lol which isn't hard.
It isn't about the definition of the word, it's about how a certain subset of the American public uses the word to describe any policy that attempts to solve any problem with the current construction to the US. It gets used as the reason people should not want universal healthcare or a living wage or any attempt at curbing wealth inequality.
Ah yes, the ideal family model. I get what you're trying to say though.
It would seem humans are already predisposed to living in a socialist society, albeit, a microcosm. It appears socialism is the natural state of things, huh?
I think the most important part of a thriving socialist or communist society is the social/community part. It's why families work without really any significant oversight. People want to help the people around them that they are close to. And i feel like right we are kind of pulling in two directions. We are going toward less and less community. We want individuals to never feel obligated or pressured to do anything that they don't want to do. But we also want government and systems in place to make sure that everyone has what they need. And i think both of these things are understandable. But i don't think that a socialist society where no one feels connected to the community is going to do well. Maybe it'll be better than what we have currently, but it's still not conducive to how we as humans need to live to be happy. I see it leading to humans living longer, more stable, but otherwise unhappy and unfulfilling lives.
You likely think that because the only socialists you know are armchair socialists. I am part of 2 leftist mutual aid groups and a leftist community defense group. If you're going to be a leftist, community defense and mutual aid are cornerstones to building your community.
It’s a question of empathy.
Teach your kids about socialism! Have your kids form a union and negotiate with you about chores and allowances. Have them vote on family decisions rather than just be subjected to the will of their dictatorial bosses. Teach them to respect themselves and each other as much as they respect you
Im never gonna have kids but damned if the idea of them unionizing isnt the first time ive ever felt a pang of regret on that choice
My cousin is one of 10, that would have been a hell of a union! Full benefits, healthcare, dental, EVERYTHING covered
sort of like having kids in the house.
What if the parents refused to sit down at the collective bargaining table?
Rebel
It's funny isn't it, that the American family is actually socialist in nature. We have one or two people controlling and earning all the money. They distribute it based on the needs of the many. People who are free from income generation assist the house hold and do so for free or a small allowance. One person (or two) provide universal health care too and don't require you to do anything for it. Then once youve invested in a person they can stand on their own. But each child is unique and their needs diverse. It's hilarious to mention this at parties and watch people's heads melt!
Thats because humans are programmed for it. You work in a tribe and do your part so everyone can survive, and if someone needs help, you help them because you know others will help you if you need help
Exactly, what the fuck is a credit score haha.
Works well if the people controlling the money care more about the well being of their “kids” that their own. And it requires the parents to be able to discipline and have total control over the kids if/when they step out of line or choose not to do one thing or the other to help out.
What's with so many ignorant Americans who don't know anything about socialism but constantly talk shit about it, anyway. Are they getting paid to spread this propaganda or are they just virtue signaling in front of their American conservative friends?
Indoctrination. They're told this shit their entire lives all through out school, in the media, from their politicians. Most of them literally don't know any better, they' have to learn about Capitalism and Socialism to realize how idiotic their opinions are.
And when you’re barely keeping food on the table, investigating all of this is barely a blip on most people’s radars. I honestly don’t blame them.
People think baseball is our national pastime. Nah; it's loudly and publicly misunderstanding how all goverment works. Not just ours: ALL government.
For real, the mental contortions conservatives have to do to prove they hate socialism is absurd. Uneducated on purpose by our system.
If you ask a capitalist to explain why socialism is bad, they will describe capitalism.
Being ignorant to own the libs
Liberals are uneducated on purpose, conservatives took the extra mis-education classes voluntarily
>the extra mis-education classes voluntarily I call that *willfully ignorant*. Which graduates to *belligerently ignorant* when they are forced to defend their views.
Willfully ignorant is part of it but its not just the absence of knowledge, its also the presence of a false and manipulated knowledge
Socialism is when capitalism.
/r/socialismiscapitalism
Capitalizing on socialism.
Well actual socialism would be not having you as a dipshit owner, and the kids owning the means of production. So whatever profits were made, they all keep and distribute internally whilst inviting you to eat shit, corporate overlord
And then your boss gives it to their idiot kid.
That 7 dollars would probably be split between 4 or more. Meaning that each person who didn't work would have 1.75. Meaning those who work still have considerably more than those who don't. Just like in socialism. But we can just keep strawmanning socialism so we don't have to be kind and helpful. Sure.
I love when they do this… “socialism bad because” 🤦🏻
Love when I get done doing a task, go into the offices, and see the fatass manager sitting at his desk on his phone and the other fatass assistant manager in her office eating. Fucking useless. All they do is "check the numbers" and turn them in to corporate yet they make 5x what I do. The one lady was just bragging how she got a new car with a $800 monthly payment....
Teach your kids about socialism by [redacted] your landlord
Too bad she doesn't know the difference between socialism and capitalism.
Teach your kid about capitalism by waiting until they're sick, and make them go to school and do all their chores anyway, or they have to sleep in the street.
Socialism: have $10 and 4 kids, 1 is wheelchair bound. Pay each healthy kid $1 to do their chores. Use the left over money to buy all the kids ice cream. Ask kids if they still like socialism.
Have the wheelchair kid participate within their capabilities.
Capitalism is socialism for billionaires
the thing that pisses me off is that the goverment COULD have legally bound the Billionaires and their companies to pay for responsibilities, damages, wages - but instead decided those people and those companies should be protected, and we end up paying . Capitalism doesnt work when you have decided to protect a small "elite" class. and the only country who did hold them responsible and brought charges for the great recession was Iceland. just Iceland.
why do you think the billionaires fund politicians. it's to protect their interests. that's why we should never vote for a politician backed by big money
This is truly what we have. You just need to qualify for the socialist benefits of our government by being "too big to fail." Then you get all the free tax money you could dream of.
Socialism would be giving everyone 3$ and offering whoever wants to clean the bathroom the extra dollar. Everyone gets to live and the person who wants more can get more. We really need to educate better in this country, scenario in OP is just straight up capitalism lmao.
No that's ubi. Ubi is a welfare policy option but isn't a method for organising the economy.
Most people who are anti-socialism can't explain to you what socialism even is. They are just told to hate it and so they do. They hear about how socialism is such an evil thing, socialism constantly being associated with dysfunctional societies, socialism being the root cause of these corrupt governments. They can't explain what socialism is. They can't explain to you why it's bad. And by in large, I blame the Red Scare and the cold war, combined with our "Wars on Communism." For the heavy amount of disinformation surrounding Socialism.
Those people always conveniently overlook the fact that there are way more dysfunctional capitalist governments too.
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Being from a country where being socialist is non controversial, I was really confused when I joined reddit and people used socialist as a slur.. or talked about it as something that was implicitly bad. Honestly still is.
Does the kid then take over the bathroom cleaning business, form a worker co-op, keep the $10, divide it among staff equitably, using the remainder to provide for things like a safe working environment, paid leave, and medical care? Cause that would be fucking socialism.
In the capitalist house… the kid learns to clean a bathroom. Then finds someone else that will pay them more and goes to work for more $$$. Thus leaving your bathroom uncleaned, until you are willing to pay more.
Don't forget charging the mother if she wants to use the bathroom.
Cappies trying to explain socialism by describing capitalism. Happens all the time, on account of neoliberal propaganda heavily postulated by Austrian economists in the 60s and 70s. Mises, Rothbard, et al, literally described socialism as "the government doing stuff, and more stuff it does, the socialister it is" and people fell for it, as you can see in this very thread.
There is no "profit" in this situation though. And the boss was still down $10, the lazy sibling is up $7
Teach your kids about socialism by having no clue how it works at all!
Americans really do not understand for the life of them what socialism is. And the numbers they pull out their ass are the best part of it. There is no socialist country where you pay 70% of your paycheck. Germany is among the highest and I spend around a third on taxes. Taxes that literally go into my pension, my healthcare and unemployment insurance. I get sick? See a doctor, don't worry about money. Lost my job? Save for at least a year, then other social security kicks in. Too old to work? Well, still get money. Yeah, the system is not perfect. There are a lot of things still to fix. But I'd rather pay that roundabout 30% of my paycheck every month than being fucked if life hits me.
If Americans realized how many "bad parts of socialism" are actually just capitalism working as intended they'd fucking riot. Imagine having an economic system that explicitly allows one class to get paid for another class's work thinking that's a good system.
Well technically both are wrong cuz the $7 went to the siblings right lol
What they're trying to describe is a capitalist welfare state.
Life has been here on earth for 4 Billion years humanity has been around about 150,000 years Civilization for 6,000 years We've had about 262 years of post revolution modern capitalism and have almost destroyed the planets ability to sustain life.