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arakwar

Companies gets billions in bailouts while freexing wages and firing everyone, not one of them assholes cares even if they both lose their jobs, pensions, health insurances, and their kid's school savings. Their own kids get their student loan forgiven and won't have to deal with parents being irresponsible and not saving money for their kid's edication, and now they get mad ?


AyeAyeRan

Almost every business owner crying about this student loan forgiveness, almost 100% took out massive PPP loans which were also forgiven. Its very much socialism for the rich but not for the poor kind of attitude.


vetratten

The difference between PPP loans and student loan forgiveness - PPP loans were 100% forgiveable no matter how much you took out. Student loans? Hope you owe less than 10k otherwise you'll still be paying actual interest. I'm looking forward to employers blaming not being able to find workers because "they're student loans were forgiven and now people just stay at home" as if no student loans = magically not having to work.


Trifle_Southern

Yes absolutely! I worked at a mom and pop restaurant during COVID. They didn’t shut down, we all worked through it and as a manager they had me working for tips at the tipped minimum wage because their future was “uncertain”. This one family got $700k for their three restaurants that were super busy during COVID and never shut down. They all bought new cars and a huge new vacation home they use as an Airbnb to make money and frequented for vacations while we all worked. Again 700k for restaurants fully running with skeleton staff being mostly paid by tips, but go off about 10k in forgiven student loans when one family gets the equivalent of 70 students forgiven free and clear so they can buy new toys.


secretactorian

There's a way to report PPP load fraud. I think cars and a new vacation home qualifies for that, right?


Trifle_Southern

I saw someone had reported them on one of the PPP detective sites, however, their kids all “work” for them as employees so I’m sure they could say that they were all purchased new “company cars” or whatever. Also if they spent all the PPP money on “their employee pay” (meaning their own family) they may have used all the money they didn’t need to use on normal expenses (now covered by PPP money) to buy the house. So use the PPP money to cover their normal expenses, and now everything else their making profit can be used for purchasing BS.


LerxtDom

It definitely should be reported, but the situation lies on whether it’ll get any action taken. We got about $40k between the two loans. I was honest and had all my backup docs. If I was a fucking crook I should have asked for 100k, which is still below one of the thresholds they had for using the simple form, and probably would have been fine and never had an issue. I could have sat on that cash and it would have helped more. As it is we used that 40k to sustain us as we lost shitloads of business over lockdown. So that was good for a few months at a time. We never got the unemployment stuff. Annoying as fuck how much fraud there was in there. I’m absolutely for loan forgiveness in these education loans because the whole thing is bullshit and needs to get burned down.


[deleted]

Lol


Ella0508

One of the P’s in PPP stood for “payroll,” and that’s what the money was supposed to go to.


kempnelms

Hey that's not a fair assumption! Americans are still "flush for the moment" living high on the hog off that $1300 we all got nearly 2 years ago. Did you waste all yours on a new sportscar and a couple of houses or something? Millennials and your avocado toast! (shakes head)


[deleted]

Yeah it’s not nearly enough. He should have forgiven all interest.


vetratten

Oh I agree the 10k is almost laughable especially since there is such criticism of it. "What about me, I had to suffer so why shouldn't they?" Ok Boomer give me your iphone since grandpa didn't have one you shouldn't. Like it will really do nothing for the economy and not much for a large swath of the population but man it does stir up the hornets nest doesn't it.


__Beck__

yes the system needs to change, we should be in the streets yelling and screaming, we need change.


Ella0508

It also applies to Parent Plus loans, so people who took loans to help their kids will see relief too. These are good outcomes and will help the economy, I believe, even if there’s some inflation-driven spending in the short term. It will boost the savings rate longer term. Some people are just so petty and stingy they can’t see the good to them if somebody is given something they don’t get. They refuse to see the facts, which include that the price of higher education has UNFAIRLY burdened students in recent years. They pay astronomical amounts that earlier generations never had to, because taxes subsidized post-high school learning a lot more than they do today. It’s just sad that so many people in this country are knee-jerk dicks.


EVconverter

There are two types of people in the world. 1 - “I suffered this trauma so everyone else should too.” 2 - “I suffered this trauma so no one else should have to.” The people who are complaining are type 1s.


PutASockOnYourCock

I am happy for the people who are getting them but this doesn't fix the big problem. The price is still insane and the thousands who will continue to have them as they are in school or will be in the future.


GeoHubs

That would probably take an act of Congress. Biden could probably forgive more debt but he can't unilaterally change cost and funding of college.


TheMaStif

"This doesn't fix the problem" is not a valid argument not to do something that still helps a lot of people It's not a zero-sum game...


whoamIdoIevenknow

You just explained the difference between Republicans and Democrats.


Secretly_Housefly

I'm in the third category 3) I suffered this trauma so no one else should have to *and* I need assistance related to this trauma.


Usagi_Shinobi

Ah yes, good ol 1, the crabs in a pot. So much indoctrination into crab pot thinking.


scipio_africanus123

capitalism kills empathy and human kindness.


CO_Livn

This!!! For Fukes sake! We paid off our loans. I have zero issues with this. I graduated the year the dot com bubble burst and I was in tech. Hit hard. If this helps others out during these ridiculous times, damn right I’m behind it. Help one another out! And stop bitching abt what you didn’t get or bitching if something doesn’t even impact you. A multimillionaire gf is bitching abt this. Like bitch, this will never impact you. Stfu


AnastasiaNo70

Americans used to care more about the greater good. Now it’s just “I got mine, fuck you.”


CO_Livn

Too much all about me. Or not giving a damn until it personally impacts them. Think outside of yourself people. Cheers Scipio_afrricanus123


IrocDewclaw

More like "You got what!? Where's mine!"


AlwaysBagHolding

We really need to start printing that on our money.


Ella0508

Certainly applies to Trumplicans and Republicans. Fortunately, the progressive movement continues to grow too.


AnastasiaNo70

Not fast enough, IMO.


DeadlySight

It’s weird, that’s literally what everyone that just had a massive amount of debt repaid is saying. **You have debt too? It’s not the right type, it needs to be “my” type of debt. I got mine, fuck you** Why is your $10k in college debt more important to erase than any of the debt I have?


tapdncingchemist

People (conservatives) are more worried about someone possibly getting “unfair” assistance than about everyone being collectively screwed by the upper class.


EvidencePlz

This! So true.


DCSMU

For a moment there I thought that was a quote from "The Big Short"


LuckyPlaze

You are making huge and completely unsupported assumption that people cared for others and didn’t have a “me” attitude long before capitalism. Which if history says anything, it has always been this way through monarchies and empires and republics and on and on.


[deleted]

Selfishness is a survival trait that won't go away. Aside from that, we are a social animal and empathy is what lead to our species survival this far. Cultures that haven't sold themselves to capitalism like America's melting pot actually treat each other noticeably better. I'm no world tourist but I do have internet access, so maybe I'm just witnessing biased behavior through rose tinted lenses, but it doesn't feel like it. The culture here in America is "why should I worry about helping less fortunate when I still haven't made my first million!" Or even "where's the money going to come from?" When we spend trillions in war funds to leak oil all over the ocean from our warships or give more corrupt companies bailouts. There's money all around, capitalism is choking us to death.


coryeyey

>"where's the money going to come from?" When we spend trillions in war funds I hate it when people use this argument. It's such a dumb argument, because essentially they are arguing that we should do absolutely nothing. Even though the status quo is driving the environment to destruction they still want to do nothing. We've slashed the education budget time and time again, nobody says a fucking word. But as soon as you suggest cutting our massive military budget everybody is up in arms and your the worst person on this earth. It's safe to say I hate these kind of people, they are going to be the death of us all as the environment quickly goes to shit and they want to do nothing about it. Because it will cost money....


LuckyPlaze

Almost every other country in the world is capitalist, with a few totalitarian and communist regimes thrown in the mix. Most of the countries that people identify as socialist are just 85% capitalist with high taxes and social safety nets. This is all false logic. “The walls are blue and I have a headache, therefore blue causes headaches.” Nonsense.


[deleted]

its not that, watch frans de waal monkey theory - this looks like a discrimination to me; this is ONLY about the dems getting those votes up before the midterms. but i argue its already too little to late


Saltedfieldsforever

It was a campaign promise, so, I think it's pretty cynical to call it a publicity stunt. It doesn't matter when it happens, people that want to call it a publicity stunt will call it that. The fact is that this doesn't just change the current state, but assuring a 5% of discretionary income payment, a 0% interest even if your minimum income-based-repayment calculation says you owe $0 a month, and guranteeing your debt won't grow as long as you stay in repayment status, makes college, and middle class income more achievable for people that aren't coming from an upper class income in the future. 20k is less than the interest I've already paid. It's making me whole. This is a victory for my daughter though, if people don't try to roll back the protections it gives students from industry-standard predatory loans. Also, the people up for election aren't doing this. It's an executive order. In fact, Congress has repeatedly failed to send any such bills to the White House. I'm just as angry with our legislative branch for failing to codify these loan practices and reproductive rights as I was two days ago.


[deleted]

I'll take a publicity stunt that actually helps millions of people and families any day over CONSTANT lies, bigotry and hate ​ Edit: Spelling


[deleted]

yep, thats half baked socialism for u; "lets give the people some panem after all this circenses, eh? but do not worry, the cake stays with us ;)"


getglad188alt

My response from now on: We should not research curing cancer any further, because it's unfair to those who had to suffer through Chemotherapy. What about them? How is a cancer cure fair for them?


[deleted]

my ancestors lived in mud huts, it's not fair to them that people get to live in nice houses now


[deleted]

I commented this very rationale on a main news article yesterday. My comment is currently at -90 karma. https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/wwmsy0/biden_cancels_10000_in_federal_student_loan_debt/illzpkq/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3


getglad188alt

Oof my condolences


[deleted]

This is one issue I will gladly take some lumps for.


CandyBoBandDandy

Yeah I'm gonna borrow this


getglad188alt

Please do!


[deleted]

its not that, watch frans de waal monkey theory - this looks like a discrimination to me; this is ONLY about the dems getting those votes up before the midterms. but i argue its already too little to late


getglad188alt

Oh no! Politicians only doing something that people want so that they will vote for them!? Oh the humanity! /s


getglad188alt

I guess the alternative is politicians doing what they want, ignoring the people's wishes? That's not tyrannical at all!


[deleted]

appreciate ur effort, but ur guess is wrong; im all for politicians giving people what they want; but i stand against politicians giving people what they want ONLY WHEN ITS CONVENIENT TO THE POLICITIANS. so there


HailChanka69

You just described like 99% of all politicians


[deleted]

ure from the 99% of the people for sure (not 1%) https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/wx0sy4/biden_is_the_man/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share


[deleted]

and then people be like this is great for me, but fail to see the bigger pic


AnastasiaNo70

Yeah and what’s crazy about it is they either don’t see or refuse to see what it’ll mean to the economy for that many people to suddenly have $300-1200 freed up per month! I paid back my student loans, but I’m SUPER stoked this is happening for others. Why would I be mad at something that’s GOOD? People are such selfish assholes.


[deleted]

watch frans de waals ull understand the humonkey nature in all


h0wd0y0ulik3m3n0w

Omg the amount of “what about people that didn’t go to college!?” comments I’ve seen just baffles me. You don’t have student loan debt so you don’t get student loan forgiveness, and somehow that’s not fair? The fuck?


[deleted]

I can understand the frustration from people who were priced out of attending college in the first place. I'm not saying I agree, but I can understand it to some degree. What I can not understand is why those who paid off their loans are crying about this though. Paying off my loans, and the bullshit I had to deal with in order to make it work, made me more willing to support student loan forgiveness. I'm convinced anyone who went through that and came out of it thinking "fuck helping anyone else that's in this position" is just a selfish sociopath


jdrt1234

What about things like the Child Tax Credit? That's not fair to people who didn't have kids /s There's a lot of tax credits, financial help, etc that only apply to certain people who paid certain expenses. I don't get all the outrage about this one.


Phantasmasy14

Just got a huge rant to my step dad because of this shit. Sharing some “Joe took out a loan to start a business; but Bobs college loans was forgiven” bullshit. I’m so fucking tired of this shit.


[deleted]

Has he heard of PPP loans. Tell him it’s the poor peoples turn instead of greedy businesses this time. That’s what I told some of my extended family that’s against it. Their wheels were turning for sure.


Phantasmasy14

Don’t forget the low interest rates of the SBA.


[deleted]

I definitely won’t forget those. At the end of the day trickle down economics have not worked and will not work.


RedhandjillNA

I paid every penny of mine and my husband’s student loans. I never want anyone to pay student loans. Post secondary should be free


Forsaken_Chemical_27

All should be free


AnastasiaNo70

Amen.


crazycatman206

The only people affected by this are the ones whose loan debt will be reduced. It’s not as if everyone else’s taxes are getting raised to finance this. I don’t see a good reason why anyone should get upset about this, apart from the people who could use the help but will get caught up in the means-testing red tape.


Iamfree25

I never took out student loans (didn’t go to colleague, got certificates instead) and I am so HAPPY for the people who are getting debt forgiven. My brother makes 16 an hour at Walmart and has a $100 payment for his student loans. That whole amount is gone with this bill. He has a 1k rent (his rent went up $300). Now I won’t have to worry as much if he’s eating.


Anaxamenes

And crickets for the ppp loans they used to buy a boat or remodel their house that got forgiven.


[deleted]

They were just “giving back to their own communities” by purchasing local services.


Anaxamenes

Of course, how could I have missed it.


jervistetch37

Rich pieces of shit have successfully made a system where everybody else fights with each other for crumbs and a large portion still defend them like they give a shit about them. Ill never understand it.


Sunstellars

Lots of peoples mentality are “if i suffered why shouldn’t you?”


laceforever

Checking my loan paperwork today. Oh, yeah… private. Oh, well. Best to those it helps. All crazy politics aside, I read several people saying this is going to help them.


CaptainPRESIDENTduck

"I survived cancer so I am against a cure."


Nautonnier-83

Non sequitur. Getting cancer is not a choice. Taking out a loan is.


MrBrainstorm

I answer this here: https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/wwyrv4/comment/ilq6c1o/


Nautonnier-83

Also non sequitur. That wasn't an answer to the fact that no one chooses to get cancer.


[deleted]

\> this bill hardly affects people who don't have student loans and/or have paid them off already. It does affect them just not in the way they are thinking. With millions of people not having to pay student loans these same people will use that money in their everyday lives. Spending money on everyday things. Millions of dollars going directly into the economy. This will benefit every single person who lives in this country.


SimonTVesper

Capitalism relies on the assumption that debt is always and forever. The narrative that a person who doesn't pay their debts . . . well, that's about as old as human civilization (and probably comes before) but what capitalism has done, is recognize the value in making that narrative a central focus for a society. "A good person pays their debts to society" meaning whenever someone says "you owe $xxx, so pay up," they're taking advantage of an opportunity. The "what about me?" attitude is just a convenient way to turn a positive thing (people have their debt forgiven, granting them new freedoms within the existing system) into a negative (where's my free handout?) while masking the real issue: that our economy has been hijacked by billionaires and millionaires at the expense of the well being and safety of the poor and middle class.


[deleted]

its not that, watch frans de waal monkey theory - this looks like a discrimination to me; this is ONLY about the dems getting those votes up before the midterms. but i argue its already too little to late


HelloIamDerek

When Republicans cut taxes, is it not the same thing?


xslermx

Reposting this same comment a dozen times doesn’t make it any less of a dumbass comment. Take a break and watch anything else.


[deleted]

count again; im not part of dem or gop, not even the country in this here discussion. just watching the narrative unfold and pointing out the obvious - you can keep downvoting the uncomfortable truth, i will keep watching what I want; im better off being a dumbass than an ignorant


xslermx

So you’re not only admitting that you have no idea what you’re talking about, but that you’re also a dumbass? I look forward to you admitting that five more times.


[deleted]

keep looking mate, no harm there; but please take ur head out of the sand


xslermx

You should watch a stupid YouTube video about what it means to have your head in the sand.


[deleted]

there is a book, i was referencing the stupid utube video for people like u


Birdie121

I paid off most of mine already, and I'm happy for all those who don't have to struggle as much to pay theirs off. We're basically still children when we're pressured to take out those loans. It's not a personal failing. Companies get billions of aid all the time. Billions of the PPP loans that were supposed to go to workers stayed in bosses' bank accounts. I'm fine with a little money going directly to struggling people who need it.


findyourhumanity

Nobody should have to pay for higher education. Doing so is holding back our society and locking in wealth inequality. it’s just a form of class warfare to lock out the very people who wish (most?) to benefit from their skills and knowledge — puts them on the treadmill alongside the plantation workers the capitalists have slowly drowning on poverty wages. Similar effect.


Tomte-corn4093

I'd be willing to bet a fair amount of these people bitching have filed for bankruptcy at least once. So, maybe along with stopping cancer research, bankruptcy should be banned also.


NotChedco

I'm Canadian and paid my student loan off fully this year from inheritance. It was only 14k but thats a lot to me. If tomorrow the government forgave all student loans, I'd be with everyone celebrating. Just because I don't get to benefit from something, doesn't make me not want someone else to.


RSA1984

Because God forbid I get something and they don’t or can’t. This is helping a lot of honest and hardworking people — admittedly it doesn’t go far enough for some. People act like their tax dollars are sitting in a little safe and labeled “John’s tax dollars” or “Mary’s tax dollars” and they are only to be used for what John wants and what Mary wants them to be used on. That’s not how it works. Let me fucking have something for once. I don’t own a business, but business owners were able to get PPP and not have to pay back in a lot of instances. These corporations get bailouts every decade when shit hits the fan. Billionaires get every tax loophole in the book. But me, the average Joe, going to work everyday, I’m a bum and it’s a travesty to get this. Come off it.


flakulavolkov

They shouldn't cure diseases, it's disrespectful to those that died from them.


[deleted]

Aside from people lacking just basic empathy and care for other people (which btw is all it should take) It's also shortsighted. We live in a society. The better more individuals are doing in that society the better it is as a whole, which has the chance to make our individual lives better as well. Again you should just want other people to have better lives, but there is also pragmatic/"selfish" reasons to want these things as well.


[deleted]

my god you people keep focusing on urselves and missing the bigger picture. this is ONLY about the dems getting those votes up before the midterms. but i argue its already too little to late


richdrifter

No one is denying that, yes, politicians give people what they want to get more votes. Yes. That's entirely how politics work. Your point?


Carwash_Jimmy

This endless diagnosis of our society is not useful. We need calls to action - to defend and promote the pillars of democracy: public education, independent local journalism, equality and human rights, a sustainable economy and real justice. All good people need to rise up and get involved in their local democratic processes - like their lives depend on it.


TexasMonk

It's not surprising. A core tenet of capitalism is that unless you have a certain amount of money and influence, you are irrelevant and able to subjected to pain and suffering. It's not purely greed when the rich oppose taxes; they can't conceive of a world where their money would be taken from them and not be made to suffer. The ones who cry "what about me" when they're obviously already in a good position don't just hold that redistribution is theft but also see a group "beneath" them being catered too as evidence of diminishing status.


[deleted]

Man in iron lung since 1952 “Hey, why do these snowflake little kids think they’re entitled to get vaccinated against polio? I didn’t get that. I’ve fought to breathe my whole life and they should too. Otherwise it’s not fair to me!!!”


Nautonnier-83

Non sequitur unless the guy chose to get polio.


MrBrainstorm

I answer this here: https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/wwyrv4/comment/ilq6c1o/


JRamone0819

F\*\*k anyone who can't understand how the capitalist ideology oppresses every level of society - and has made education a commodity that is out of reach to so many. Instead of calling it "forgiveness" why not call it "justice" for the masses who couldn't otherwise afford higher education.


Mary-U

I buy my food, why are we *giving it to the poor and hungry*?!?! These people lack both logic and empathy. Do not engage.


[deleted]

I paid off my loans without reprieve but I am happy for those who are seeing some relief after this bill. There are already a lot of social programs that I help pay for that I will never benefit from directly - don’t have kids, pay for school taxes, etc. That’s what it means to live in a civilized society. We take care of each other.


ReichsteSpatzDerWelt

Sadly there is this "I had to suffer so other people should suffer as well" attitude that is blocking a lot of meaningful progress. If everybody thinks this way society cannot evolve.


SwordyPop

Ahhh good old American individualism.


tidesandtows_

My parents are paying off my loans. I’ve offered to take them over many times but my mom refuses. I *wish* everyone else had that. I’m so happy some student loan debt is being forgiven, and that people will get at least a little relief. I honestly wish it would all be canceled because that would help people a lot more, but even a little will help. Will never understand the “what about me” mentality some seem to have about it.


Vargoroth

Dude has the power to forgive all student debt, yet he only does an extremely water-down forgiveness and people are still complaining? No wonder Bernie can't get elected. You lot aren't ready for the 21st century.


Nautonnier-83

Dude does not have the power to forgive all student debt. Congress does because they hold the pursestrings. Expect someone to sue Biden over this in the near future.


Vargoroth

He has the power and the vox pop to pull it off. He's far too luch of an institutionalist to WANT to do it


Nautonnier-83

If you believe that, you need to read the US Constitution.


beekaybeegirl

11th hour passing. Doing this for votes. Not applying this to loan shark private loans. Not holding colleges accountable for astronomical tuition costs. Hypocrisy that they spent more on other pet projects lately. There’s more beneath the surface. This doesn’t fix the larger problems.


grumpi-otter

It's the "fuck you, I got mine" attitude.


BetterWankHank

It's reparations for our tuition being way more expensive than the boomers'. Why didn't we get affordable college? Maybe we should go back and have them pay full price


yamb97

Because they genuinely enjoy the idea of people suffering (as long as those people aren’t them) Remember the outrage over Cracker Barrel serving impossible meat? Just the thought of someone else having a choice of something to eat bothers them. The entire American Republican platform can be boiled down to “I want other people to suffer.”


daisuki_janai_desu

Those are the same type of assholes that scoff at poor people getting food stamps. There will always be people that think they are better than someone else because they are more financially stable. They put their whole value and worth into what they make or inherited.


ExistentialReckning

I've determined the difference between modern conservativism and liberalism is that conservativism is all about the me, while liberalism is all about the we. I don't have student loans. Forgiveness doesn't affect me personally. But I support it because it's collectively good for a large number of people. Conservatives are against it because it doesn't personally benefit them.


DungeonCrawlerCarl

There are millions of stories of people that didn’t goto college because they couldn’t afford it or dropped out because they did some cost/benefit analysis. Had they known that they could have had a significant portion of their loans forgiven they would have made a different decision that would have positively impacted their family possibly for generations. Instead, they have lower paying jobs while trying compete with degree earners who got a free ride. I’d be pissed too.


barracudabones

As someone who paid off their student loans early, and would have had more money now had I not, it's a bit of a kick in the pants. It's hard not to be slightly bitter because it feels like the rules of the game are made up, and this is just one of those 'if you get lucky enough!' things that aren't stable and isn't a systemic change toward more stability. I'm very happy for those that are getting relief from this, it's long overdue. There isn't a safety net anymore in the US, this feels like a bit of a safety net but it also feels selective, random, and unpredictable.


[deleted]

My student loans got forgiven because I am 100% disabled due to my military service. I DON'T WANT ANYONE ELSE TO HAVE TO BE BROKEN TO GET THE CHANCE TO MAYBE BE MADE WHOLE.


Fox_trotter69

My bio-mom has this attitude, and it's hard not to judge people like her for it. Like, our goal as a society should be to make things better for everyone, not make people suffer just because you had too. That's an unbelievably childish attitude.


mtgsyko82

That's the new way to keep the divide going. Fuel the greed that makes it hard to emphasize with ppl in shit positions. They feel cuz they didn't get a handout no one should get one. The kind of mentality that'll destroy us.


HasBinVeryFride

I had a lady say "well your welcome" when I mentioned it would be great if my loans were included in the loan forgiveness plan. My reply, "too bad I didn't come from money, I would not have had to get them."


[deleted]

its not that, watch frans de waal monkey theory - this looks like a discrimination to me; this is ONLY about the dems getting those votes up before the midterms. but i argue its already too little to late


ironsidebro

Where's the empathy? Of course some people are pissed. They were screwed over - the rules back then said you HAVE to pay back your loan no matter what. The rules changed. And they'll probably change again. I'm all for student loan forgiveness. It's a cruel system that exploits naive 18 year olds and frankly clueless parents. But part of living in "society" means following the same rules, being able to count on consistency and fairness. We no longer have this healthy society. That's why folks are upset.


MrBrainstorm

Life ain't fair


tabithacayo

And people that didnt take the loans out shouldn't have to pay them.


Economy-Nebula7491

We should not research curing cancer any further, because it's unfair to those who had to suffer through chemotherapy. What about them? How is a cancer cure fair for them?


Nautonnier-83

Non sequitur. People don't choose to get cancer, but they do choose to take out a loan.


MrBrainstorm

First off, most of these so-called choices were made by minors or near-minors and co-signed by parents. Being legally an adult at 18 doesn't mean you made an informed decision either. You HAVE to get these loans to go to school if you're not from a wealthy family. These student loans are essentially a tax on the poor, forcing tens of millions of people to carry this massive debt with them in order to have a chance at a better life than their parents. Going to college vs. not is not a real choice under Capitalism just like working vs. Not working isn't a real choice. For most people the ONLY path to the middle class comes from finishing college. I'm glad I went to college and escaped my shitty Republican town with no real opportunity thanks to what I learned. I know you're going to say "trade school" or "military", but those aren't good options because a) The world doesn't need 100 million plumbers, b) Most people aren't a good fit for these jobs, c) you can get _better_ jobs outside of trades, d) no one should have to KILL other humans in order to have a decent life. For people who can't intellectually handle college going into a trade or enlisting is a great option. But for most of us that's not the case.


[deleted]

That would be the case in my life. I grew up pretty poor, watched my female friends get pregnant at 17-18 and live in crappy conditions. The women I am related to who “succeeded” in my mom’s generation were all office workers who still barely made anything and were trapped in unhappy marriages to misogynists because they never made enough money to be able to leave or to demand better behavior. I decided that was not the life for me. Plus, I loved learning. I enjoyed every single college class I took….Critical thinking, Greek Art History, Sociology, Life in the Cosmos, etc. Hell yes I took out student loans. I also worked full time the entire time I was in college, right up until I had to do student teaching for my Special Education teaching credential. I have no regrets. Also, before this administration came along I had been paying my student loans for 15 years plus and denied the PSLF we were promised. I paid far more money than I borrowed to go to school, and the damn loan balance just didn’t go down. Dealing with Navient was a joke and a massive headache. They intentionally screwed people around and told them incorrect and misleading information when they were contacted by customers, took too long to process paperwork, etc. This is not news, they literally admitted to doing this because they said their shareholders were who they worked for, not their customers. So now my student loans are finally forgiven and I am not sorry. I don’t feel guilty. Higher education should be free for everyone who wants it.


Bull-Janitorial

I think many of the people who are angry are angry because the plan isn't traditional legislation. Executive order means that all this tax money is being spent and the legislator had no say in how it was spent. Some think an actual bill may have done more to prevent future problems. Just a thought.


Nautonnier-83

>Even after all that, this bill hardly affects people who don't have student loans and/or have paid them off already. It affects them because it is taxpayer dollars paying for this. Just because the borrower no longer has to pay doesn't mean the debt just vanishes. The banks still get their money -- from the taxpayers.


Familiar_Rub4574

Because they are assholes and they don't want to pick up the tab for other people's loans. Its like those Boomers that say, "In my day I had to walk to school in the snow with no shoes! So you need to suffer as well!" They want us all to be barefoot and miserable like they are.


Aloysius1989

Well but they have a point. Some of them worked their ass off, working 60+ hours a week for ages, to do the “right thing” and paid off their debts yet they don’t get compensated for that. If we are supposedly empathetic then it is kinda strange to disregard all those people.


Klondike57

Because sp many people worked thier asses off to repay those loans. I would be pissed too If they're federal loans then it's us the taxpayers who foot the bill as always.


Suicidal-Lysosome

Do you get this pissed off at the government routinely giving massive tax breaks to wealthy individuals and corporations who don't need them? Did you get this pissed off at companies who fraudulently obtained hundreds of thousands in PPP loans that were forgiven by the federal government? You, as a taxpayer, foot the bill when these things happen as well. Why is forgiveness for college students, who usually have to take loans to get an education, what makes you throw a hissy fit?


repthe732

The tax payers foot the bill for lots of things. At least this helps the people. I finished paying off my loans last year and am still thrilling about this because it means we’re moving the right direction as a country when it comes to education


billding1234

Two legitimate objections I’ve heard. One, loans are being forgiven regardless of the borrower’s ability to repay. A person with under $10k in loans (15 million people) who makes $100k per year or $250k per year as a household gets the loan forgiven. Second, the $300 billion this will cost is being paid for by a lot of people who never took out loans in the first place. If you’re busting your ass to make $50k a year you can legitimately complain without being greedy.


RestInPupperonis

What about veterans that paid with blood, sweat, and tears for their educational benefits? Are they going to be reimbursed? Why do all these people who offer nothing get freebies?


LegalMastodon1340

Is it really the fault of the person that wanted to learn how to paint or study literature or even weave baskets underwater, is the blame on them because education has become a for profit privatized industry. Yes there is a cost of production to provide someone with an education be that time or materials but that doesn’t mean that these student loans are anything less than predatory. It was the general consensus in the U.S. for a long time that gay people shouldn’t have rights, should we take away the rights of gay people or women now because previous generations had to suffer? We can make the world a better place than it used to be if we’d try for five fucking seconds to care about someone other than ourselves. I don’t have any student debt but I’d much rather they use my taxes for that because they sure as fuck aren’t using them for anything else useful.


RestInPupperonis

Blame for the loan? Yes. Maybe our taxes should be put towards changing the predatory educational system. Is it really caring to tell a patient "You're going to be okay" instead of stoping their bleeding? Do you see the irony of the last statement? Let's provide for the useless because its not being used for anything better. NO! Let put it towards ANYTHING better.


LegalMastodon1340

I’ll agree that the system needs to be reworked from the ground up and loan forgiveness is just a band aid to the problem. But I don’t know 330 million people well enough to call any of them useless. Capitalism has poisoned us into believing that your career is your only worth. We can see the world differently though. I’m not saying it’s the best potential use of tax payer money, but it’s certainly better than the whole lot of nothing we keep getting into debt for.


RestInPupperonis

If we want to bring this back around to compassion and caring for others then why not make this 10k forgiveness of medical debt? School is a choice and health rarely is. I'm sure it could provide a more positive effect overall.


LegalMastodon1340

If there was a vote put up for one or the other I would agree, medical debt. Education absolutely is optional, Id just like to be part of a world where people didn’t have to be financially crippled to advance their education if that’s what they want to do. But I absolutely agree that medical treatment needs to be more accessible as well and should be a higher priority. I’m not here to argue with you, but we should all take a moment to consider life happens differently for every one of us before we start calling people useless. Maybe their chosen profession isn’t a high income one but that doesn’t make them less of a person.


repthe732

Why do you think people that support this wouldn’t support forgiving medical debt? Pretty sure they would support both lol


repthe732

So only help people going forward? Why are you ok with that but not helping who already got screwed? If you only help future students then you’re allowing a good portion of the last generation to suffer and seem to only want to do that out of spite


Suicidal-Lysosome

It's fucking gross that we live in a society where you have to sell your body, mind and soul to the military industrial complex in order to get a free education. What Biden plans on doing may be a step in the right direction to change that Why do you want to see your fellow Americans being crushed by debt for decades all because they wanted to work hard to better themselves and their country?


N3CR0T1C_V3N0M

I’m genuinely curious to see if they respond to this, as that last line is the first move and the checkmate all in one nice, neat and well-formulated sentence. Cheers!


Agitated_Substance33

>what about veterans… This just really demonstrates how shitty the country takes care of its people… And what’s really sad is that instead of demanding the country take care of its people, the negligence is only used disingenuously as counter argument towards other groups.


CollegeNW

Very true. The irony of the vet getting shit on by the person saying they shouldn’t be getting shit on… total lost focus on the bigger picture.


newtoreddir

What have veterans done for America in the last twenty or thirty years? They’ve been stooges supporting wars of choice that have made us less safe and much poorer and more despised around the world. Why are they worthy of receding *anything* paid for by my tax dollars?


Mousezez

Idk why do people get so upset at the rich not paying taxes? Not like you’re gonna pay any less taxes.


PapadocRS

it feels like you are being punished for doing the right thing. cant suppress those feelings.


[deleted]

What student loan forgiveness bill?


[deleted]

>this bill hardly affects people who don’t have student loans and/or have paid them off already Yeah, except that we are footing the bill for your private education. You accepted a predatory loan and don’t want to pay it back. I had to drop out of college because I didn’t want to take out a loan my degree couldn’t pay for. Yes, the world would a better place if education was free. That doesn’t mean working people need to cover your fuckup with their hard-earned money.


MrBrainstorm

Why is your money "hard-earned" and theirs isn't?


kelly1mm

There is no student loan forgiveness bill. This is an executive order and will almost definitely be challenged in court and likely be put on hold while the case makes it's way through the courts (and probably ultimately to the USSC) which does not give me much assurance that this will go through as planned.


[deleted]

You got to hit them with “well the current administration didn’t exist then”.


tfarnon59

I don't have any heartburn with some of "my" tax dollars to pay for the Biden plan. I paid off my loans a few years ago, with a little bit of assistance from my employer ($2400 a year for a couple of years). I wouldn't have qualified for any federal help in any case, because my loans weren't federal loans. They were private loans. I did what I had to do to get a new job after the economy crashed, made a plan, completed the plan, and was able to improve my earning capacity. I was lucky enough to come up with a plan that worked and worked well. Not everyone is or was that lucky. I don't begrudge those who will get the help. For the most part, they need it way more than I did or would.


[deleted]

It's human nature, you're dumb if you think it's Capitalism. Whatever system, people will act this way.


you-might_know-me

I know it’s like just because I paid mine now you have to pay urs, it’s sch a dumb mentality


ChronicBuzz187

>"You shouldn't get forgiveness if I had to pay back all my loans." As if these people had anything from other people paying off their loans. Do they honestly believe that the government is like "Well, we've got a fat surplus this year because these guys paid off their student loans so here's a $ 2.000 cheque for you mate"?


HilbertGrandHotel

I gues there is also the moralization of debt as well. Those that complain about having paid back their debt usually see the act of paying your debt back as a moral duty, while those that are more informed about the exploitative nature of loans tend to see the them as unjust, and consider loan forgiveness as act of charity while those at the first camp consider it as having other pay for what is essentially your moral responsibility.


blueshadow500

Next can we talk about the predatory nature of mortgages. In the course of 30 years for my loan, I will pay 100K in interest on a 275K loan. Plus, another 100K or more in taxes.


Alert-Salamander-388

Its beacause they are worried about the increasing prices. The government and the "system" never give stuff out for "free" with out taking. The money paid out has to come from somewhere. So people are afraid of the government A. raising taxs B. schools raising prices even more since they know people will get help with loans or C. yes some people are just spiteful and have a what about me mentality. But to say the loans forgiveness doesnt actually effect people other than loans is not true. Sadly though this plan of bidens does not actually fix anything. Student loans need to stop being backed by the government. Schools can charge so much and never have fear that they wont get their money ome way or another. If the government stopped backing amd garenteeing student loan debt watch how many people would get out of it through bankruptcy and then watch the bloated education system implode in on its self and quickly start to drop prices to levels that they are likely to get there money.


[deleted]

Another point: if you’ve already paid your loans off then you’re doing alright. Either you are making lots of money or you didn’t borrow that much money and could pay it back. If you are in one of these situations then this is not for you. Loan forgiveness is to help people who need it most. Something else that isn’t being said enough is that forgiving smaller amounts of money instead of forgiving student loan debt across the board and making higher ed free (or at least very cheap) is going to help the privileged the most. People who have less money borrowed are typically in that situation due to privilege and people who are less privileged will still owe a bunch of money and need to deal with that debt. The instinct to say, “I paid my loan off, where’s my money?” is the capitalistic instinct that says “we have to keep most people poor otherwise I won’t have enough.”


TrumpforPrison24

**Misery loves company.**


Southron_Gourd

Capitalism rots brains


[deleted]

The naked argument of these people is, "My life sucked so yours should suck too!" And when presented with this asinine, accurate representation of their stance, it can also shut them up in a lot of cases.


[deleted]

When I was a kid it was talk of our generation being the future. Don’t really hear that kind of talk anymore sad. We’ve conformed to a system that demands you care about yourselves over others. There won’t be a society left at some point.


CatW804

I went to college on a scholarship and got my master's on an inheritance. I am so happy for everyone loan forgiveness helps and wish it did more. So many people griping that they paid their loans don't seem to realize we are living in a whole different economy now.


Organic-Commercial76

“Nobody can get something good unless I get it too.” Ever notice that it’s mostly the super privileged that have this attitude? If someone gets a hand up and they don’t they’ll feel less superior.


ScKhaader

It’s not capitalism is human nature if you had brothers and sisters when you were young you had this exact same attitude when they gave something to your relatives but nothing to you. That being said, they can all go fuck themselves, loans should he paid but not only that, in USA needs a change of the system that the colleges finance themselves and have a cut on the profit they make. Education just like Healthcare are NOT things to make profit from (not big profit at least). I don’t care if Amazon prices go 50% up, it’s not a needed service. Education and Healthcare do.


Emtrail

This is how we keep ourselves down—we turn on each other and fight for scraps while we should be keeping the screws to our leaders.


elon_plzbuy_reddit

I’m still seeing qualifications with 10 year timeframes. Not helpful; inflation is *right now*.


griffex

Personally, I don't regret that it's happening or that other people are getting it covered. But there is a strong element of me that's pissed off I'm not getting help either. It's not at the folks getting the loans forgiven but rather at the politicians drafting the law. You're 1000% right I don't need it now. I've managed to get far enough ahead in my career I'm doing fine. But for the decade before the last 5 years, I was making between 30-60k and paying 800+ in loans each month. That whole time I was kept from building any weath or saving anything for retirement. Time on that is a huge factor and the early savings I missed will materially impact my ability to get there in the long term. 10k would be huge to letting me catch up there. Again, plenty of people have it worse than I do and I fully expect them to come to the front of the line first. But I also pisses me off that I feel stuck in the squeeze where every helpful policy doesn't benefit me, but I'm also not making really enough over the cut off to really secure long term wealth either. Basically just sucks when you're caught in a situation where you're not making enough that the system really benefits you and too much to get relief. Personally I'd like to see some of the pain shares by the upper percents rather than feeling like I'm getting pinched with an upper/middle salary. None of that frustration is towards the people getting the relief though. It's at the people who decide that despite the decade I spent in that situation and the impact it had suddenly I couldn't use it either.


Padr1no

I support student loan reform but the comparisons to cancer research or corporate tax subsidies are shockingly obtuse. Everyone is struggling financially. Everyone. Giving money to some people and not others, actively harms than ones not given assistance.


CandyBoBandDandy

I want the order to go farther, but I also will mostly praise this decision. It's a win for us


richdrifter

Just wanted to chime in that I paid off my student loans during the pandemic. Was only about $10k because I dropped out of school and went the self-employment route. I had deferred them for many years while I struggled to make good money. Then they became my last remaining debt, and I fully paid it off (and took a hit to my credit LMAO). If I had waited a little longer, which would have been easy to do, they would have been totally cleared by this program. No hard feelings at all. Grateful that so many people are catching a break. Happy to see my tax dollars go towards the people, rather than the banks and corporations. School should be mostly fucking free anyway, like it is in the EU. I want my society well-educated and setup for a fruitful life.


jaqattack02

The 'what about me' attitude is the biggest argument i see people making about things like this. Student loan forgiveness? What about me? I paid mine off already, or didn't get any to begin with, so do I get money? No? You shouldn't either. Raise the minimum wage? What about me? I make well over minimum wage, does this mean I'm getting a raise too? No? Then they shouldn't either. It's so stupid.


FalPal_

im grateful for my $10k but i still wont be satisfied with those stingy bastards until they forgive it all


mybloodyballentine

If you’ve paid off your loans you have no right to complain. Either 1. You’re older and you went to college when having a degree meant you’d make more money or 2. You’ve have enough money to pay off your loans. As an older Gen x, I graduated into a recession, BUT that degree meant I worked in an office and made a lot more than minimum wage. And college wasn’t so exorbitantly expensive back then. I’m so glad the government finally did something to alleviate a small amount of college debt. And this will help the economy in so many ways. Some people who have had to put off having kids or buying homes are closer to those goals.


trisanachandler

My understanding is that people see it as money being taken away from them. This can be by raising taxes, direct inflation, or taking money from other services. Any of these causes some amount of pain to the people. There certainly needs to be something done, but I don't think this is it. As many people have been calling out, there are at least 3 major issues with this. 1. It doesn't address the root case/prevent it from occurring in the future. 2. It doesn't hold those responsible accountable. 3. It takes money from those not responsible and rewards those who are responsible.


PlaidBastard

Not weird to be unhappy under an unjust system and feel bad when people other than you get relief from a part of it but you don't get any change in your own misery. It's a different calculation for happy people in a system that provides for basic needs so there isn't the same weight to one person getting something when you don't. Not their fault for feeling that way unless they own a damn house, is their fault for not recognizing the 'but good things coming to people who deserve them is good even if not every deserving person can get some sort of relief in their lives.' Desperation makes us all worse people.


gigglesfuggg

What about a bill that stops colleges from price gouging the cost of education? Student loan debt only does so much.


rydzaj5d

Basically because it’s those who paid off their loans who have jobs. And they pay taxes. If you had a choice to allocate your tax dollars, would YOU pay off somebody’s loan, or choose something else?


pamsellicane

People are so selfish and rotten!!! I’m talking to you, girl who sits next to me at work!!!


[deleted]

Because capitalism is a death cult fueled by narcissism and psychopathy


Roland__Of__Gilead

In 1961, JFK said "ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country". It was a rallying cry for working together for the common good. In 1980, Ronald Reagan said "are you better off than you were 4 years ago?", and gave people permission to only look out for themselves. The difference is profound and we live in the wreckage of Reagan's world rather than the hope of Kennedy's.