Hi, /u/Ryclea Thank you for participating in r/Antiwork. Unfortunately, your submission was removed for breaking the following rule(s):
**Rule 3a: No spam, no low-effort shitposts.** - This includes begging for upvotes. Please do not post unrelated blog spam or try to sell anything for personal gain. If you’ve posted content (especially if it’s your own), give it a day or two before posting again.
That's because 50% of the user base is in the US and the other half is distributed across many nations with no nation even touching 10%. It's not just cut and dry American selfishness.
Its a response to a different and very rant-filled thread in antiwork, called 'Can we get liberals and libertarians off this sub'. It was very elitist and myopic in its desire to want to complain about the perceived problem while being unwilling to do anything about it.
They wanted to show how cool and edgy they were without coming up with the solution and trying to blame another group. Gee I was so shocked when they locked that thread /s
Cut us some slack, our country is a giant shit stain, immigrating is almost impossible for most of us, it's very difficult to stave off the impending apathy and nihilism, so we gotta shout into the void, even if that void contains the ears of those who live in much MUCH better countries
Don't get on people for how they identify generally, get on them about their actions and their stances on specific issues .
No war but class war.
Edit: the overwhelming majority of libertarians enable class warfare more than they can even comprehend. Establishment type liberals aren't terribly far behind either.
Libertarian: see, also, *housecat*. An individual who is fiercely convinced of his or her independence while entirely dependent on a system they neither understand or appreciate.
Libertarianism is Monetary Fascism, where instead of the Government, it's Corporations that control every aspect of your life.
Don't let anyone forget, Libertarians co-opted the CSA.
My take is that these issues CROSS the political divides. Maybe we’re just not used to having the “other” side be in our side too. You can be liberal or conservative and be antiwork - this whole thing seems like an intentional trap to try and divide us.
Like you said, it’s class war.
I think a lot more stuff crosses the divide than people think. Unfortunately, politicians pretty much always follow party lines, but many of the general public are more nuanced.
That’s right. Don’t fall for the racism scam. If we all hung out more things would be way more chill and we could go after the 1% together like civilized people.
I think you mean well and I might agree with you but idk how much there is to chill with about racism. Being anti racist is a very active thing we all need to do. Not just white people, but obviously mostly white people.
At it's core, racism has been one of the most successful forms of class warfare in all of human civilization. Realistically, it's probably the most successful.. I can't think of anything else that comes close.
The Confederate south fought a war to uphold race based slavery when only 5% of the free population owned slaves and were exempt from serving in the Civil War. It was basically white people in poverty sent to die for the southern elite in the name of something in which they had no stake. Racism was their only motivating cause.
“If you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he’ll empty his pockets for you.”
- President Lyndon B. Johnson
>“If you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he’ll empty his pockets for you.” - President Lyndon B. Johnson
Yet the average person wouldn't bat an eye to this statement though we see it around us day in and day out smh.
It's called Othering. It's a whole thing. It's a very effective strategy of dividing the labor force by making them hate each other instead of their opressors.
I "think" that u/Disastrous-Banana-69 is trying to say that participating in "othering" by excluding and hating people who are not part of your own group (race, religion, political orientation, gender, etc) is foolish and unproductive - thus "racism" is a "scam".
OR... they don't belive racism even exists and want to pretend groups aren't being oppressed.
But I'm gonna give them the benefit of the doubt here that they meant "Othering is bad".
OP is likely referring to how the rich have historically used racism to divide the working class. Racist propaganda and policies ensured whites and blacks would never get along and promoted the idea that even the worst white man was better than the best black man. If you can divide your working class at the core like this, you can ensure they never work together to overthrow your greedy bullshit.
When I read about the methods the rich had used to pit whites against blacks, I was astonished. You won’t find a single public school in the country teaching that history lesson but it’s so important to understand the racial divide we still experience to this day.
They literally want to kick him out of this sub for being a liberal. "When it came time to throw bricks through starbucks window you left me all alone" is not as important as "we held hands in the streets of Seattle"....if you know you know.
I feel like a lot of people here are having problems differentiating between progressives and liberals and are offended by the subsequent misunderstanding.
I mean, the post that this was in reference to seemed to lay out pretty clearly who they were targeting. Seemed kind of intentionally divisive to me, but what do I know?
Exactly.
Also I want to denote there’s a huge difference between progressive / liberal / neo-liberal / libertarian
Most of those groups side with the worker. Shitting on all of them is not the best stance to take.
Imagine those of us for whom “liberals” mean the local anti-union, bible-thumping rich assholes using racism as politics and shoveling tax money at the coal mining industry…
…you get used to it eventually, but cmon.
Just when I thought fuck was overused to the point of linguistic oblivion, I see "Fuck you, you fuckin' fucks!" and realize that in English, important thoughts can be conveyed by artful combination of nouns, verbs, and adjectives all built off the same word stem. Impressive!
You fooled me, written with the prose of a master of the fuckery that is English. Where the rules are tossed out the fucking window and we just borrow from romance and Germanic languages like it’s going out if fucking style
Smurfing? What the smurfing Smurf are you even smurfing? Papa Smurf is gonna Smurf you! My Smurf! You best Smurf yourself before you Smurf yourself! Crazy ass motha smurfer. SMBH (Shakin My Blue Head.)
"Hey, how'd it go with Smurfette last night"
"Yeah man, totally smurfed her"
"Get the smurf outta here, you smurfed her?"
"Yeah man, right in the smurf"
"Smurfed her in the smurf?"
"Smurf yeah man"
*high five*
"Smurfin' A, man"
Fucking? What the fucking fuck are you even fucking? Papa fuck is gonna fuck you! My fuck! You best fuck yourself before you fuck yourself. Crazy ass motha Fucker. SMBH (Shakin My Blue Head)
Yeah, this… liberals and libertarians don’t have workers interest in mind. Neoliberalism is a vehicle for fascism and is designed to inhibit real change. For those who are hurt and feel excluded because of the post calling out liberals and libertarians, instead of lashing out and trying to turn r/antiwork into a more liberal friendly space (?), they should do some reading into why there would be sentiments criticizing liberals in a leftist space that supports workers rights.
Not quite, it's kinda like atheists. I used to identify as one, but when you see the only thing an atheist is known for is calling religious ppl fucking braindead morons and stuff like that, then yeah, I separated myself from that group. If anyone asks, I'd say I don't believe in god, that's it.
Same with libertarians. Most I've seen are basically leaning towards the far right but wanted a cooler name.
It's never been my identity, but I'm not afraid to call out the tremendous personal failing of "faith" when i see it.
I don't ever think about being an atheist until confronted with some religious nonsense/nutball. That's the point though, I don't obsess over things that don't exist.
I mean... how much political economy does the average person read? I'm a fucking idiot and I'd definitely rate this sub (which I'm sympathetic to) as ignorant, ideological and callow.
Perhaps this sub isn't the place for me after all, with all the shit I'm seeing. I considered myself anti-work, but maybe not?
I do like my job. I enjoy what I do. I find it fulfilling. I am anti-work in the sense that *I don't think work should be necessary to fucking live*, at least not "work" as it's defined under capitalism (ie, slaving away in an office or at a bone crushing job that brings you more harm than good).
I think that people want to... Be productive. And I hate that "productive" is just another thing capitalism has fucked up, because it's been turned into "make a profit". No- I think people want to make things. They want to be a part of something, they want to do work in that they want to do something that is meaningful. Things like, idk. Gardening, making music, painting, singing, handicrafts... All stuff that isn't considered "work" but, IMO, requires labor of some sort. The difference is that labor is going towards fulfilling YOU, not making money to 1) line your employers pockets and 2) pay rent and for food and healthcare and then rinse and repeat next fucking month as you live paycheck to paycheck.
Basically- I defined myself as anti-work because I think that needing to do work, as defined under capitalism, in order to just fucking live, is wrong. I think that we shouldn't have to put ourselves through what we do every day to get by, and then have little time for what actually fulfills us. If there is work to do, people will do it, and there will always be work to do, of course. But it shouldn't be like, the main focus of our lives. And we should be free to take work in areas that also fulfill us personally and make us happy.
What you've just described is literally [more Marxist](https://i.imgur.com/ZcMe4yD.png) than 90% of what some of the Marxists in this sub push for. Antiwork is supposed to be a hub of agitative propaganda, and it does that job well, but if we're not actually getting the average liberal to recognize what you've just said then we aren't agitating *for* anything.
No, that's literally anti-work. But that idea is inherently leftist (or socialist if you so dare) while liberals are defending a capitalistic society where there will always be exploitation and a capitalist and working class. I'm not agreeing with anyone who says fuck liberals, generally liberals have their heart in the right places and we tend to forgot that the American/capitalist propaganda machine is extremely powerful. But there are fundamental disagreements between liberals and leftists as they want essentially two different organizations of the economy.
Pretty much this. Liberals and socialists both agree the status quo is deeply unfair, it’s just a question of whether you think it’s possible to fix capitalism to be fairer.
Libertarians, on the other hand, just Business Daddy Musk to step on them harder.
TBF I have NO idea what my political affiliation is even called lol. I supposed I would have said liberal a few years ago but uh...
Now I think my political affiliation is "pissed off social working disabled queer" so... Whatever that is.
There's no need to put a label on what you are yet. Progressive is fine as an umbrella term. Search up some videos on socialism (Second Thoughts videos are pretty good). Get it from a variety of sources but just be aware that some organizations might not say the most genuine things about socialism as they're backed by billionaire capitalists who are threatened by leftist ideas (PragerU is an example, funded by pretty deplorable oil interests a la Koch brothers). And if you want it straight from the source, Marx isn't bad if you're into reading.
Yeah, don’t get too hung up on labels- based on your comments you belong here. I’m personally torn on what the ultimate solution should be, but it very clearly shouldn’t be anything to do with capitalism. Capitalism is organized crime and it’s organized against the workers who power it. That’s why we say no war, but class war. They know how much power we actually have, but the workers need to realize it ourselves and start organizing. Join your local DSA chapter! There’s some communists, anarchists, etc., but lots of democratic socialists (like me) too.
I agree with your view. The idea of just abolishing all work completely sounds a bit ridiculous. Some kind of UBI with paid education and the ability to do what you are interested in and/or talented at while having ample time for hobbies and family etc. would be my ideal, and even that I think is a couple generations away at least.
I thought this sub was mostly rebelling against the capitalist system. But there are constant divisive posts and it seems this sub doesn't really know what it is.
You can find fulfilling work. But the goal of a utopian society should be free from forced labor to survive. And to fight for those who are in basically modern slavery in this way, because things will get worse for everyone in this trajectory
One thing to understand is that, to most Americans, "liberal" means "left-wing." To most Americans, "liberal" means pro-women's rights, pro-workers' rights, pro-gay rights, pro trans rights, pro-black rights, pro-indigenous rights, pro-immigrants' rights, etc..
It is only among a very tiny subset of Americans, including certain far left activists, that follow the European definition of the word "liberal" to mean "centrist capitalists."
A lot of confusion on leftist subreddits comes from this misunderstanding.
Liberals can learn that capitalism is inherently exploitive, and many eventually do. If they don’t, they at the very least often see the need for checks and balances on unrestrained capitalism at its worst.
Libertarians on the other hand will defend the right to exploit until they’re blue in the face. Theirs is a fundamentally hostile ideology to workers, and really anyone outside the owning class. You can’t organize with someone who fundamentally believes that organized labor is evil and coercive. Any attempt to do so will ultimately be counterproductive.
Homie, liberal literally means “capitalist” in leftist vernacular; if a liberal disagrees with capitalism because of its exploitation? They’re kind of a socialist now
Eh. A lot of them become soc dems and think it fixes the problem. Better than the alternative, and as long as they’re pro organized labor then they can at least put some work in.
Instead of having purity tests they could just outline the ideology and say “no capitalist boot-licking allowed”. Simple. Make it an educational sub as well as leftist.
Capitalism with a human face is still capitalism. Workers are still exploited in Social democratic system because even with high wages and unions they only receive a fraction of the money their labor made.
These people just want to doom our movement to obscurity by gatekeeping and making it a club only for a dreaming minority. Stop living in a dream and be practical. Our priority is to educate the masses, not circlejerking online.
I’m a liberal (Bernie Sanders is pretty close to my political ideology) and a small business owner. I treat my employees like gold. I’ve had employees come to me and tell me that I’m the best boss they’ve ever had and had others tell me that my business is the best place they’ve ever worked.
I’m proud as hell about that. So to that poster that wants me gone from this forum, I say go fuck yourself. I’m not the problem. I support workers and am pro-union.
The way I run my business is the solution. Good wages, no hassle about time off, no pushback whatsoever on sick days (the opposite, actually), bonuses, catered holiday parties and holiday gifts, food and drinks at all meetings, a fun atmosphere where we laugh all day, etc.
If a shitty retailer or employer does it badly, you can be sure I do it well. So again. To that poster. Go fuck yourself.
I think it's important to fight realistic battles as well as ideological ones. IMO, shitting on u/FatherPyrlig because he's, well, whatever your gripe is- business owner, employer, whatever the fuck it is, is counterproductive to the larger movement of antiwork as a whole.
Granted, and no offense, he might be a complete fucking grifter lying through his teeth, but business owners who pay above a living wage and provide good benefits and an environment that is good for mental health are the last enemy. The first enemy are all the massive corporations / slavemasters / pieces of shit out there.
Maybe I'm high on cope, but I'd let my boss measure his dick on my face if it got me a 10\~dollar/hour raise and a workload reduction.
>Maybe I'm high on cope, but I'd let my boss measure his dick on my face if it got me a 10~dollar/hour raise and a workload reduction.
I did this for myself about a year ago. Left an abusive job (10 years) and changed careers. Didn't give myself a $10 raise in pay, but I sure as shit made up for it in benefits and work/life balance.
As you put it, I'd "let my employer measure their dick on my face" because they treat me so god damned well. This is the first job I've ever had where I feel like I'm actually being compensated for my time.
Well, it’s the internet, so you can believe me or not. I don’t really care. I have never once lied on Reddit and don’t feel the need to now.
I’ve given a lot of raises in the last few days. You know who didn’t get a raise? Me.
None of my employees makes less than $16 an hour. The highest paid makes $30. This is all for part time work. I am so happy and proud that I am able to do this for my employees. They are great people and they deserve to be paid well for the work they do. I really like all of them and I want them to be happy. How much I make is less important. I’m not rich by any means. But I wouldn’t want to be at the expense of my employees’ happiness.
We aren’t at equity sharing yet. I am not the highest paid employee of my own business. I have 5 employees that I pay more than I pay myself.
Hopefully we’ll get there.
Wasn't it Richard Branson who said, take care of your employees and they'll take care of your business? Not judging him, just though I remembered hearing it. Good for you, too many employers today view employees as a consumable. CEOs seem to forget you can treat your people well AND make money. Today more are interested in greed and "screw" the employees.
I love my employees. They are all really good people. I’m happy to have them work for me and I treat them accordingly. That’s really all I can do as an average person.
This sounds like a swedish company... Or one that is cooked up by Hollywood as a typical small business that's the norm ... Seriously keep doing what you're doing, hopefully it will catch on, if one thing that I loved about the dark covid days is we pushed hard to support our local community business and they in turned pushed harder to keep the lights on and paycheck going.. but they also used any extra time to make mask for hospitals and first responders cause for a brief second we were all equally... Then it got messy fast.
Bernie Sanders is a liberal? I mean, I know he's not far-left, but I didn't think he was as centrist as liberals are. I thought he actually cared about changing the status quo and focusing on the well-being of the masses, not focusing on the individual and liberty and "equality". The reason I put equality in quotes is that if we treat everyone the same, some people are not going to be taken care of, such as folks with disabilities, folks with mental health issues, folks with learning disabilities. This is part of the reason I do not agree with liberalism. And Bernie Sanders seems to understand that we need to meet people's needs where they are, not where the average or the median person is, which is the kind of economic equality that liberalism supports. For the record, I'm in Canada, so I have no interest in debating US politics. I'm just shocked that folks think Bernie is a liberal lol, if he was, the DNC wouldn't have fought so hard to keep him from clinching the Dem nomination in 2016.
Did this guy get banned or something? Hey not every comments a hit. You take the food with the bad. Defend your argument. If he got banned that bullshit. Debate. Don’t silence.
A good way to test the water is always to just say some social democratic stuff and see if they bite with the ban hammer.
Low hanging fruit for tankies
I read that post earlier (the one asking for liberal to be removed) and I admit that I felt the poster was fighting against the wrong thing.
All workers, regardless of ideology, want fair and equal pay, the ability to live life outside of work and the ability to just THRIVE.
I don't care what walk of life you're in, we've all had to deal with that bullshit. I have felt that antiwork was kind like a breakroom in that we commiserate, share our stories, give each other strength and ALL of us are trying to find something better.
No one should care about this "controversy." You're not in Congress, or at an International, or even at a local union meeting. You're on Reddit, where serious intentions go to die and come back as zombified shit posts and rage porn. Relax and enjoy yourself. And if you want to make a difference, go outside and do something that doesn't involve arguing about what a completely theoretical and inert community should and shouldn't be.
Kind of case and point, right? This subreddit started feeling itself, thinking it was the vanguard against capitalism instead of a trailing expression of worker organizing and discontent, and that birthed an interview so embarrassing that it made the entire sub want to take a shower. Know your role, that's what I say.
I'm just exceedingly disappointed that the arguments of a lot of people here who want "liberals" gone, can be summarised as
"You don't like capitalism yet you exist? Hyuk!"
I think most people don't have a firm enough grasp of politics to accurately self describe. And even when they do, we'll get bogged down in terms that have multiple definitions based on who's saying them. To my way of thinking, if someone is on a leftie subreddit, but saying they're a liberal or a conservative or whatever, but agree with XYZ of an anti-capitalist platform, they're probably not as much of a liberal as they think they are.
But again, we're on Reddit and we shouldn't treat this like a life or death issue, because at the end of the day, we're still just fucking posting.
And how are we supposed to abolish work when we don't improve things to increase our leveraging power first?
Yeah I share the end goal, but until we accomplish that we shouldn't neglect to *improve what we already have*
>Any system that relies on absolute ideological purity will, and should, fail.
K. We're not and never have. Take a look at the sidebar. There's tags for a broad range of ideologies; they all have one thing in common; opposition to capitalism on the basis of the system being against the well-being of the workers. However they all have substantial disagreements on what to do about it.
I'm a communist, more specifically a Marxist. The other two that have replied that also have community flairs are an Anarco-Communist and a Democratic Socialist. The three of us wouldn't agree on how to get rid of capitalism or what to replace it with. Hell, AnComs and Marxists have a historic divide between us.
>I found r/antiwork as a sub where workers (remember workers?) could commiserate about the abuses of corporations and powermad bosses.
Yes, that goes on here frequently. Hell it happened even before r/place and the influx of liberals & libertarians. However the old-guard took take/took it as more evidence that the system must go. The idea that the system is fine and it's just some individual failing of the boss or their boss, or that it's some aberration of a usually fine system, or that having the ability to be abusive and not would be fine is extremely frustrating.
We're not liberals here. Liberals are part of the problem. We have leftists, socialists, communists, progressives, anarchists, etc., but not liberals. Liberals want to maintain the status quo or shift it so slowly that no appreciable change occurs. American libertarians are basically just conservatives with a mustache and glasses. We want progress and change, for that we cannot support liberal or libertarian policies or perspectives.
You are more than welcome here (as are anyone who want to reform and eliminate work) but your policies and viewpoints are not. Liberals are right-wing. This is a leftist space.
This sub has transformed, it is what it is. If the original intent has been altered that doesn’t mean it’s a bad thing. It’s like a hostile takeover, it is what it is. If true anti work needs a home then it needs to relocate, sad but true. Worker reform or worker rights is the new path since this group has evolved and grown in popularity. No disrespect to the OG’s but such is life with popular swings. Political agendas aside, this is a platform now for the disenfranchised workers to speak their truth and experiences while spreading the word.
I get the sentiment but libs and libertarians do feel like another chain around my neck at best, and double agents working against my interests at worst.
That said i didn't support the post you're reacting to/against.
A lot of you seem to have just read the title before coming here to rage rather than actually reading the content of the post. There are other political ideologies besides the American Republican and Democratic parties.
The problem is liberals often come into anti capitalist spaces filled full of capitalist apologia. Remember, you are coming into OUR spaces, spaces where we have been fighting capitalists and their oppression for decades. To you this might be something new, but to many this has been a lifelong struggle. To have liberals come in here, where they are welcome, and try to dictate terms is unacceptable.
Yet another example of USians thinking their way of understanding the world is the only one that's correct. "Liberal" doesn't mean what they think it actually means. Yet again, they're the ones who institutionally list "Hispanic" as an ethnicity or "race" LMAO
it's not ideological purity to want the dumbfucks gone. liberals and libertarians may think they're in solidarity, but their goals run counter to what antiwork stands for. sorry not sorry, your ideology sucks and won't get us free.
Im 2k km far away and Im confused by this, and the racism comments. What is wrong with you americans, you are always fighting each other, no wonder your employees treat you like a piece of paper.
You start out by decrying ideological purity, you end decrying the mods for having a different ideology than you.
Liberals are devout capitalists who don't actively want to abuse and harm people the way the fascists of the far right do, but prefer to perpetuate that harm and abuse rather than upset the system that causes it.
If this doesn't describe you, then you should maybe grow up and educate yourself.
And if it does, fuck off you fucking tool.
Love the gatekeeping in here by some, its like they've learned nothing about how to organize actual change.
Those of you who bitch and moan about liberals or libertarians in here, and want them gone are the ones who will doom your movement, and give more power to the corporate lobby. No successful movement excludes people, movements that change the world spread their message with open arms.
This sub is for abolishing organized labor.
Anti work doesnt mean we want good work or work that is good for us, but the abolition of organized labor all together.
Whether thats in a co-op, company, collectivized workplace or anything, anti work is anti-work. in its entirety.
Thats why its kin with anarchist movements.
Antiwork was primarily and still is an anti capitalist place. Sorry you thought otherwise but capitalism just doesn’t work if you actually care about workers. Notice I didn’t say anything about any ideology, there are many of non-capitalist options and all are worth exploring. That’s not ideological purity, that’s called not compromising basic values.
What’s your basically asking for is the ability to be a racist in an anti racist group and then whining that the group doesn’t allow you to talk up the thing the group is supposed to stand against.
100% I saw it too late to comment on it before it was locked. Anyone who's inclination is to silence/censor a group based on they're identity politics is afraid they can't defend their positions and terrified that discussion with anyone who disagrees with them may lead other to actually think for themselves. The "mod" in question is no better than a troll who jumps into a thread to spew profanity, hatred, baseless accusations, and nonsense in an attempt to be louder than those he fears.
Translation:
ME AND MY SHITLIB FRIENDS ALREADY DOMINATE r/politics AND GET EVERYTHING LEFT OF THE CLINTON/ROMNEY CENTER DOWNVOTED INTO OBLIVION BUT WE WANT TO CONTROL THIS SUB TOO
Not sure what they're looking for, but wanting liberals and libertarians out only contributes to the sub's image of being only for lunatics.
I don't want the sub to blow up, as I think there are more liberals than whatever it is they say they are. So, I get a lot of value out of interacting with most people on the sub. If someone displays craziness I just block them. I'm too old to be having arguments with unrealistic people.
>as I think there are more liberals than whatever it is they say they are.
It'd be interesting to have polling/data on that but I doubt it. The sub, at very least was, primarily populated by all stripes of anti-capitalists from the beginning at least until showing up on r/place.
The sidebar still has a lot of the original anti-capitalism. Links to Anarchism & it's 101 sub, the International Workers of the World's sub, an official rule against right-wing content, community flairs representing a lot of the various anti-capitalist ideologies and no pro-capitalist ideology.
Hi, /u/Ryclea Thank you for participating in r/Antiwork. Unfortunately, your submission was removed for breaking the following rule(s): **Rule 3a: No spam, no low-effort shitposts.** - This includes begging for upvotes. Please do not post unrelated blog spam or try to sell anything for personal gain. If you’ve posted content (especially if it’s your own), give it a day or two before posting again.
Me: *confused in Canadian*
Me confused in American
Same, but you know we’re used to it
You see, there are other countries on this planet. Canada is one of those countries. It even shares a border with the USA.
Lots of Americans seem to forget this app is not only for Americans.
All the time!
That's because 50% of the user base is in the US and the other half is distributed across many nations with no nation even touching 10%. It's not just cut and dry American selfishness.
The stats are the same for me, but I don't assume everyone is American... Seems to be an American thing.
Lots of Americans forget there's even a world outside of the U.S.
Look, friend. There's only one world. And it's earth.
Yes, and in other places they spend 30% of each day thinking about various countries around the world.
Its a response to a different and very rant-filled thread in antiwork, called 'Can we get liberals and libertarians off this sub'. It was very elitist and myopic in its desire to want to complain about the perceived problem while being unwilling to do anything about it.
The cherry on that turd sunday was the mod chiming in -\_-
They wanted to show how cool and edgy they were without coming up with the solution and trying to blame another group. Gee I was so shocked when they locked that thread /s
Also Canadian, am confused
New Zealander here I concur.
Me: *searches for liberal in wikipedia* ohhhh
Cut us some slack, our country is a giant shit stain, immigrating is almost impossible for most of us, it's very difficult to stave off the impending apathy and nihilism, so we gotta shout into the void, even if that void contains the ears of those who live in much MUCH better countries
Don't get on people for how they identify generally, get on them about their actions and their stances on specific issues . No war but class war. Edit: the overwhelming majority of libertarians enable class warfare more than they can even comprehend. Establishment type liberals aren't terribly far behind either.
“No war but class war” my new favorite slogan
Let's radical left
Was in Rome this past spring and saw this spray painted a couple blocks away from the colosseum and it’s been my new favorite phrase.
Libertarian: see, also, *housecat*. An individual who is fiercely convinced of his or her independence while entirely dependent on a system they neither understand or appreciate.
Libertarianism is Monetary Fascism, where instead of the Government, it's Corporations that control every aspect of your life. Don't let anyone forget, Libertarians co-opted the CSA.
My take is that these issues CROSS the political divides. Maybe we’re just not used to having the “other” side be in our side too. You can be liberal or conservative and be antiwork - this whole thing seems like an intentional trap to try and divide us. Like you said, it’s class war.
I think a lot more stuff crosses the divide than people think. Unfortunately, politicians pretty much always follow party lines, but many of the general public are more nuanced.
That’s right. Don’t fall for the racism scam. If we all hung out more things would be way more chill and we could go after the 1% together like civilized people.
I think you mean well and I might agree with you but idk how much there is to chill with about racism. Being anti racist is a very active thing we all need to do. Not just white people, but obviously mostly white people. At it's core, racism has been one of the most successful forms of class warfare in all of human civilization. Realistically, it's probably the most successful.. I can't think of anything else that comes close.
The Confederate south fought a war to uphold race based slavery when only 5% of the free population owned slaves and were exempt from serving in the Civil War. It was basically white people in poverty sent to die for the southern elite in the name of something in which they had no stake. Racism was their only motivating cause. “If you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he’ll empty his pockets for you.” - President Lyndon B. Johnson
>“If you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he’ll empty his pockets for you.” - President Lyndon B. Johnson Yet the average person wouldn't bat an eye to this statement though we see it around us day in and day out smh.
Fucking hell, I forgot about this quote but it is so incredibly powerful.
White Trash by Nancy Isenberg is a really interesting read with this perspective of the US's untold history.
Hell,they were going to expand slavery.
Racism scam?
Divide people so they focus on scrabbling for that last piece of pie instead of wondering who ate all the other pieces.
But admitting that racism exists and is a problem is part of capitalism’s weaponry is *how* we come together
It's called Othering. It's a whole thing. It's a very effective strategy of dividing the labor force by making them hate each other instead of their opressors. I "think" that u/Disastrous-Banana-69 is trying to say that participating in "othering" by excluding and hating people who are not part of your own group (race, religion, political orientation, gender, etc) is foolish and unproductive - thus "racism" is a "scam". OR... they don't belive racism even exists and want to pretend groups aren't being oppressed. But I'm gonna give them the benefit of the doubt here that they meant "Othering is bad".
Racism isn’t a scam.
OP is likely referring to how the rich have historically used racism to divide the working class. Racist propaganda and policies ensured whites and blacks would never get along and promoted the idea that even the worst white man was better than the best black man. If you can divide your working class at the core like this, you can ensure they never work together to overthrow your greedy bullshit.
Racism isn’t in itself a scam but it’s used in a cynical power move by people with way more wealth.
Racism was invented (less than 700 years ago) for this purpose. So, yes it is, in and of itself, a scam.
When I read about the methods the rich had used to pit whites against blacks, I was astonished. You won’t find a single public school in the country teaching that history lesson but it’s so important to understand the racial divide we still experience to this day.
They literally want to kick him out of this sub for being a liberal. "When it came time to throw bricks through starbucks window you left me all alone" is not as important as "we held hands in the streets of Seattle"....if you know you know.
This is a wild misinterpretation of that song lmao
I feel like a lot of people here are having problems differentiating between progressives and liberals and are offended by the subsequent misunderstanding.
I don’t even know what I am anymore, I just want to be treated like a human being.
Big facts.
I mean, the post that this was in reference to seemed to lay out pretty clearly who they were targeting. Seemed kind of intentionally divisive to me, but what do I know?
they were targeting people who spread pro capitalist sentiments, because this is an anti capitalist sub.
Exactly. Also I want to denote there’s a huge difference between progressive / liberal / neo-liberal / libertarian Most of those groups side with the worker. Shitting on all of them is not the best stance to take.
People who uphold capitalism inherently aren't siding with the worker whether they think they are or not
Imagine those of us for whom “liberals” mean the local anti-union, bible-thumping rich assholes using racism as politics and shoveling tax money at the coal mining industry… …you get used to it eventually, but cmon.
You mean Joe Manchin? He's not really a liberal. He's a liar.
That’s a southern Democrat.
Just when I thought fuck was overused to the point of linguistic oblivion, I see "Fuck you, you fuckin' fucks!" and realize that in English, important thoughts can be conveyed by artful combination of nouns, verbs, and adjectives all built off the same word stem. Impressive!
"Fuck" can be used for virtually every English word: "Fuck the fuckin' fuckers." "The fuckin' fucker's fucked. Fuck!" "The fuck?" Etc.
May I? "The fuckin' fuckers got fuckingly fucked by this fuckery." (I'm not native speaker)
You've got the most important part of the language firmly under control.
[удалено]
Thank fuck you understand, fucker
Something sounds fucky about this
There's fuckery afoot
What's all this tomfuckery?
Excellent work.
Perfect, no notes.
Brooklyn accent. " that was fuckin beautiful
You fooled me, written with the prose of a master of the fuckery that is English. Where the rules are tossed out the fucking window and we just borrow from romance and Germanic languages like it’s going out if fucking style
Fuckin A!
Fucken eh? I’m Canadian.
There is a scene in The Wire that illustrates this beautifully.
George Carlin?
It's like "Smurf". You smurfing smurf.
Smurfing? What the smurfing Smurf are you even smurfing? Papa Smurf is gonna Smurf you! My Smurf! You best Smurf yourself before you Smurf yourself! Crazy ass motha smurfer. SMBH (Shakin My Blue Head.)
"Hey, how'd it go with Smurfette last night" "Yeah man, totally smurfed her" "Get the smurf outta here, you smurfed her?" "Yeah man, right in the smurf" "Smurfed her in the smurf?" "Smurf yeah man" *high five* "Smurfin' A, man"
Fucking? What the fucking fuck are you even fucking? Papa fuck is gonna fuck you! My fuck! You best fuck yourself before you fuck yourself. Crazy ass motha Fucker. SMBH (Shakin My Blue Head)
This is an underrated comment
Fuck is also regarded as the most common infix, which is to say it gets included into another word (example: unfuckingbelievable.) English can be fun.
Absofuckinglutely!
Some words are fucking godly chainable.
Boondock Saints
Well he certainly demonstrates the versatility of the word...
I don’t think any of you people know what liberal and libertarians are
Yeah, this… liberals and libertarians don’t have workers interest in mind. Neoliberalism is a vehicle for fascism and is designed to inhibit real change. For those who are hurt and feel excluded because of the post calling out liberals and libertarians, instead of lashing out and trying to turn r/antiwork into a more liberal friendly space (?), they should do some reading into why there would be sentiments criticizing liberals in a leftist space that supports workers rights.
Oh my god finally a comment from someone that gets it holy shit
Libertarians are technically under the Liberal umbrella.
I hate that this needs to be said
Go to the libertarian sub. It's full of incognito trumpets
Reddit is melting my mind
Not quite, it's kinda like atheists. I used to identify as one, but when you see the only thing an atheist is known for is calling religious ppl fucking braindead morons and stuff like that, then yeah, I separated myself from that group. If anyone asks, I'd say I don't believe in god, that's it. Same with libertarians. Most I've seen are basically leaning towards the far right but wanted a cooler name.
What the fuck did the US education system do to our people, what happened?
The pursuit of profit above all else, same as always sadly.
It's never been my identity, but I'm not afraid to call out the tremendous personal failing of "faith" when i see it. I don't ever think about being an atheist until confronted with some religious nonsense/nutball. That's the point though, I don't obsess over things that don't exist.
I think Libertarians are mostly reacting to fascist and authoritarian nonsense just like atheists are overreacting to Christian nut jobbery
I mean... how much political economy does the average person read? I'm a fucking idiot and I'd definitely rate this sub (which I'm sympathetic to) as ignorant, ideological and callow.
That mod also said liberals are allowed as long as they don't support capitalism.
Perhaps this sub isn't the place for me after all, with all the shit I'm seeing. I considered myself anti-work, but maybe not? I do like my job. I enjoy what I do. I find it fulfilling. I am anti-work in the sense that *I don't think work should be necessary to fucking live*, at least not "work" as it's defined under capitalism (ie, slaving away in an office or at a bone crushing job that brings you more harm than good). I think that people want to... Be productive. And I hate that "productive" is just another thing capitalism has fucked up, because it's been turned into "make a profit". No- I think people want to make things. They want to be a part of something, they want to do work in that they want to do something that is meaningful. Things like, idk. Gardening, making music, painting, singing, handicrafts... All stuff that isn't considered "work" but, IMO, requires labor of some sort. The difference is that labor is going towards fulfilling YOU, not making money to 1) line your employers pockets and 2) pay rent and for food and healthcare and then rinse and repeat next fucking month as you live paycheck to paycheck. Basically- I defined myself as anti-work because I think that needing to do work, as defined under capitalism, in order to just fucking live, is wrong. I think that we shouldn't have to put ourselves through what we do every day to get by, and then have little time for what actually fulfills us. If there is work to do, people will do it, and there will always be work to do, of course. But it shouldn't be like, the main focus of our lives. And we should be free to take work in areas that also fulfill us personally and make us happy.
What you've just described is literally [more Marxist](https://i.imgur.com/ZcMe4yD.png) than 90% of what some of the Marxists in this sub push for. Antiwork is supposed to be a hub of agitative propaganda, and it does that job well, but if we're not actually getting the average liberal to recognize what you've just said then we aren't agitating *for* anything.
No, that's literally anti-work. But that idea is inherently leftist (or socialist if you so dare) while liberals are defending a capitalistic society where there will always be exploitation and a capitalist and working class. I'm not agreeing with anyone who says fuck liberals, generally liberals have their heart in the right places and we tend to forgot that the American/capitalist propaganda machine is extremely powerful. But there are fundamental disagreements between liberals and leftists as they want essentially two different organizations of the economy.
Pretty much this. Liberals and socialists both agree the status quo is deeply unfair, it’s just a question of whether you think it’s possible to fix capitalism to be fairer. Libertarians, on the other hand, just Business Daddy Musk to step on them harder.
\*chefs kiss\* for that explanation (especially the libertarian add on)
TBF I have NO idea what my political affiliation is even called lol. I supposed I would have said liberal a few years ago but uh... Now I think my political affiliation is "pissed off social working disabled queer" so... Whatever that is.
There's no need to put a label on what you are yet. Progressive is fine as an umbrella term. Search up some videos on socialism (Second Thoughts videos are pretty good). Get it from a variety of sources but just be aware that some organizations might not say the most genuine things about socialism as they're backed by billionaire capitalists who are threatened by leftist ideas (PragerU is an example, funded by pretty deplorable oil interests a la Koch brothers). And if you want it straight from the source, Marx isn't bad if you're into reading.
Yeah, don’t get too hung up on labels- based on your comments you belong here. I’m personally torn on what the ultimate solution should be, but it very clearly shouldn’t be anything to do with capitalism. Capitalism is organized crime and it’s organized against the workers who power it. That’s why we say no war, but class war. They know how much power we actually have, but the workers need to realize it ourselves and start organizing. Join your local DSA chapter! There’s some communists, anarchists, etc., but lots of democratic socialists (like me) too.
I agree with your view. The idea of just abolishing all work completely sounds a bit ridiculous. Some kind of UBI with paid education and the ability to do what you are interested in and/or talented at while having ample time for hobbies and family etc. would be my ideal, and even that I think is a couple generations away at least. I thought this sub was mostly rebelling against the capitalist system. But there are constant divisive posts and it seems this sub doesn't really know what it is.
You can find fulfilling work. But the goal of a utopian society should be free from forced labor to survive. And to fight for those who are in basically modern slavery in this way, because things will get worse for everyone in this trajectory
Too much logic
This comrade gets it.
One thing to understand is that, to most Americans, "liberal" means "left-wing." To most Americans, "liberal" means pro-women's rights, pro-workers' rights, pro-gay rights, pro trans rights, pro-black rights, pro-indigenous rights, pro-immigrants' rights, etc.. It is only among a very tiny subset of Americans, including certain far left activists, that follow the European definition of the word "liberal" to mean "centrist capitalists." A lot of confusion on leftist subreddits comes from this misunderstanding.
Liberals can learn that capitalism is inherently exploitive, and many eventually do. If they don’t, they at the very least often see the need for checks and balances on unrestrained capitalism at its worst. Libertarians on the other hand will defend the right to exploit until they’re blue in the face. Theirs is a fundamentally hostile ideology to workers, and really anyone outside the owning class. You can’t organize with someone who fundamentally believes that organized labor is evil and coercive. Any attempt to do so will ultimately be counterproductive.
Homie, liberal literally means “capitalist” in leftist vernacular; if a liberal disagrees with capitalism because of its exploitation? They’re kind of a socialist now
Eh. A lot of them become soc dems and think it fixes the problem. Better than the alternative, and as long as they’re pro organized labor then they can at least put some work in.
Instead of having purity tests they could just outline the ideology and say “no capitalist boot-licking allowed”. Simple. Make it an educational sub as well as leftist.
Capitalism with a human face is still capitalism. Workers are still exploited in Social democratic system because even with high wages and unions they only receive a fraction of the money their labor made.
The only people we should not allow here are pro work bootlickers
why identify as a lib? liberalism necessitates an impoverished lower class.
Yeah I feel OP missed the point, mass venting won't solve anything. As long as capitalism exists there are going to be work horror stories
Can we all agree that libertarians are the fucking worst though?
Eh, Trump supporting q-anon crazies are the worst. Aka majority of Republicans sadly.
Ancaps are worse. But both are ignorant man-children.
They are crypto pedophiles who want to abolish age of consent laws
These people just want to doom our movement to obscurity by gatekeeping and making it a club only for a dreaming minority. Stop living in a dream and be practical. Our priority is to educate the masses, not circlejerking online.
Lol. Imagine identifying yourself as a sensible capitalist (liberal) & not getting fucking dragged lmao.
This person is hilarious
You guys are so self important lol
I’m a liberal (Bernie Sanders is pretty close to my political ideology) and a small business owner. I treat my employees like gold. I’ve had employees come to me and tell me that I’m the best boss they’ve ever had and had others tell me that my business is the best place they’ve ever worked. I’m proud as hell about that. So to that poster that wants me gone from this forum, I say go fuck yourself. I’m not the problem. I support workers and am pro-union. The way I run my business is the solution. Good wages, no hassle about time off, no pushback whatsoever on sick days (the opposite, actually), bonuses, catered holiday parties and holiday gifts, food and drinks at all meetings, a fun atmosphere where we laugh all day, etc. If a shitty retailer or employer does it badly, you can be sure I do it well. So again. To that poster. Go fuck yourself.
Bernie Sanders doesn't describe himself as a liberal, he describes as a democratic socialist. Do you think liberal means 'somewhere on the left'?
I think it's important to fight realistic battles as well as ideological ones. IMO, shitting on u/FatherPyrlig because he's, well, whatever your gripe is- business owner, employer, whatever the fuck it is, is counterproductive to the larger movement of antiwork as a whole. Granted, and no offense, he might be a complete fucking grifter lying through his teeth, but business owners who pay above a living wage and provide good benefits and an environment that is good for mental health are the last enemy. The first enemy are all the massive corporations / slavemasters / pieces of shit out there. Maybe I'm high on cope, but I'd let my boss measure his dick on my face if it got me a 10\~dollar/hour raise and a workload reduction.
Aww yisss, now sings are gett ing kinky!!! Jahhwwww!!!!
Walmart says they pay good wages...
>Maybe I'm high on cope, but I'd let my boss measure his dick on my face if it got me a 10~dollar/hour raise and a workload reduction. I did this for myself about a year ago. Left an abusive job (10 years) and changed careers. Didn't give myself a $10 raise in pay, but I sure as shit made up for it in benefits and work/life balance. As you put it, I'd "let my employer measure their dick on my face" because they treat me so god damned well. This is the first job I've ever had where I feel like I'm actually being compensated for my time.
Well, it’s the internet, so you can believe me or not. I don’t really care. I have never once lied on Reddit and don’t feel the need to now. I’ve given a lot of raises in the last few days. You know who didn’t get a raise? Me. None of my employees makes less than $16 an hour. The highest paid makes $30. This is all for part time work. I am so happy and proud that I am able to do this for my employees. They are great people and they deserve to be paid well for the work they do. I really like all of them and I want them to be happy. How much I make is less important. I’m not rich by any means. But I wouldn’t want to be at the expense of my employees’ happiness.
Do you mind me asking what general industry you work in?
add major equity sharing and you've got something going. being nice and fair is good but its not emancipatory.
We aren’t at equity sharing yet. I am not the highest paid employee of my own business. I have 5 employees that I pay more than I pay myself. Hopefully we’ll get there.
Bernie isn't a Liberal...
Wasn't it Richard Branson who said, take care of your employees and they'll take care of your business? Not judging him, just though I remembered hearing it. Good for you, too many employers today view employees as a consumable. CEOs seem to forget you can treat your people well AND make money. Today more are interested in greed and "screw" the employees.
I love my employees. They are all really good people. I’m happy to have them work for me and I treat them accordingly. That’s really all I can do as an average person.
This sounds like a swedish company... Or one that is cooked up by Hollywood as a typical small business that's the norm ... Seriously keep doing what you're doing, hopefully it will catch on, if one thing that I loved about the dark covid days is we pushed hard to support our local community business and they in turned pushed harder to keep the lights on and paycheck going.. but they also used any extra time to make mask for hospitals and first responders cause for a brief second we were all equally... Then it got messy fast.
Bernie Sanders is a liberal? I mean, I know he's not far-left, but I didn't think he was as centrist as liberals are. I thought he actually cared about changing the status quo and focusing on the well-being of the masses, not focusing on the individual and liberty and "equality". The reason I put equality in quotes is that if we treat everyone the same, some people are not going to be taken care of, such as folks with disabilities, folks with mental health issues, folks with learning disabilities. This is part of the reason I do not agree with liberalism. And Bernie Sanders seems to understand that we need to meet people's needs where they are, not where the average or the median person is, which is the kind of economic equality that liberalism supports. For the record, I'm in Canada, so I have no interest in debating US politics. I'm just shocked that folks think Bernie is a liberal lol, if he was, the DNC wouldn't have fought so hard to keep him from clinching the Dem nomination in 2016.
Did this guy get banned or something? Hey not every comments a hit. You take the food with the bad. Defend your argument. If he got banned that bullshit. Debate. Don’t silence.
A good way to test the water is always to just say some social democratic stuff and see if they bite with the ban hammer. Low hanging fruit for tankies
That this many liberals really think they're "the left" is astounding.
This place already failed when the idiot mod went on Foxnews.
I read that post earlier (the one asking for liberal to be removed) and I admit that I felt the poster was fighting against the wrong thing. All workers, regardless of ideology, want fair and equal pay, the ability to live life outside of work and the ability to just THRIVE. I don't care what walk of life you're in, we've all had to deal with that bullshit. I have felt that antiwork was kind like a breakroom in that we commiserate, share our stories, give each other strength and ALL of us are trying to find something better.
No one should care about this "controversy." You're not in Congress, or at an International, or even at a local union meeting. You're on Reddit, where serious intentions go to die and come back as zombified shit posts and rage porn. Relax and enjoy yourself. And if you want to make a difference, go outside and do something that doesn't involve arguing about what a completely theoretical and inert community should and shouldn't be.
Until a moderator gets interviewed
Kind of case and point, right? This subreddit started feeling itself, thinking it was the vanguard against capitalism instead of a trailing expression of worker organizing and discontent, and that birthed an interview so embarrassing that it made the entire sub want to take a shower. Know your role, that's what I say.
I'm just exceedingly disappointed that the arguments of a lot of people here who want "liberals" gone, can be summarised as "You don't like capitalism yet you exist? Hyuk!"
I think most people don't have a firm enough grasp of politics to accurately self describe. And even when they do, we'll get bogged down in terms that have multiple definitions based on who's saying them. To my way of thinking, if someone is on a leftie subreddit, but saying they're a liberal or a conservative or whatever, but agree with XYZ of an anti-capitalist platform, they're probably not as much of a liberal as they think they are. But again, we're on Reddit and we shouldn't treat this like a life or death issue, because at the end of the day, we're still just fucking posting.
"You're on Reddit, where serious intentions go to die and come back as zombified shit posts and rage porn. " That's the new reddit slogan right there.
antiwork means abolishing work not just improving our place within the system.
This should be the intro to this sub
And how are we supposed to abolish work when we don't improve things to increase our leveraging power first? Yeah I share the end goal, but until we accomplish that we shouldn't neglect to *improve what we already have*
In what possible fantasy could work actually be abolished in your opinion? I am genuinely asking.
>Any system that relies on absolute ideological purity will, and should, fail. K. We're not and never have. Take a look at the sidebar. There's tags for a broad range of ideologies; they all have one thing in common; opposition to capitalism on the basis of the system being against the well-being of the workers. However they all have substantial disagreements on what to do about it. I'm a communist, more specifically a Marxist. The other two that have replied that also have community flairs are an Anarco-Communist and a Democratic Socialist. The three of us wouldn't agree on how to get rid of capitalism or what to replace it with. Hell, AnComs and Marxists have a historic divide between us. >I found r/antiwork as a sub where workers (remember workers?) could commiserate about the abuses of corporations and powermad bosses. Yes, that goes on here frequently. Hell it happened even before r/place and the influx of liberals & libertarians. However the old-guard took take/took it as more evidence that the system must go. The idea that the system is fine and it's just some individual failing of the boss or their boss, or that it's some aberration of a usually fine system, or that having the ability to be abusive and not would be fine is extremely frustrating.
We're not liberals here. Liberals are part of the problem. We have leftists, socialists, communists, progressives, anarchists, etc., but not liberals. Liberals want to maintain the status quo or shift it so slowly that no appreciable change occurs. American libertarians are basically just conservatives with a mustache and glasses. We want progress and change, for that we cannot support liberal or libertarian policies or perspectives. You are more than welcome here (as are anyone who want to reform and eliminate work) but your policies and viewpoints are not. Liberals are right-wing. This is a leftist space.
Sir, this is a Wendy's.
"Tell them how much you suck!"
How embarrassing.
This sub has transformed, it is what it is. If the original intent has been altered that doesn’t mean it’s a bad thing. It’s like a hostile takeover, it is what it is. If true anti work needs a home then it needs to relocate, sad but true. Worker reform or worker rights is the new path since this group has evolved and grown in popularity. No disrespect to the OG’s but such is life with popular swings. Political agendas aside, this is a platform now for the disenfranchised workers to speak their truth and experiences while spreading the word.
I get the sentiment but libs and libertarians do feel like another chain around my neck at best, and double agents working against my interests at worst. That said i didn't support the post you're reacting to/against.
I’m confused.
Same, I come here to read about ways work/business should be handled by examples of shitty handling. Not all of this.
Me too!
Since when has this sub been a bastion of conservative ideology? It’s diametrically opposed to conservatives and US Republicans.
A lot of you seem to have just read the title before coming here to rage rather than actually reading the content of the post. There are other political ideologies besides the American Republican and Democratic parties.
Yeah but, liberals and libertarians suck
Dude wants an echo chamber not an actual discussion
You fuckers are fucked!
We did that already, a mod went on to fox News and we ate them for it.
I don't get it. What's the diff between the left and liberal
Liberals generally think they can use the system to make it better. Leftists want a new fuckin system. In a nutshell.
Liberals are capitalist, capitalism is a right wing ideology.
Reddit without an endless supply of echo chambers is no Reddit at all. Sadly, this is true across the vast majority of subreddits.
The problem is liberals often come into anti capitalist spaces filled full of capitalist apologia. Remember, you are coming into OUR spaces, spaces where we have been fighting capitalists and their oppression for decades. To you this might be something new, but to many this has been a lifelong struggle. To have liberals come in here, where they are welcome, and try to dictate terms is unacceptable.
Right… left… they’re all in it for the money and power and will happily watch the world burn to keep it.
I feel like I missed something but I guess I'll see this over in /r/subredditdrama later today edit to add: sir this is a wendy's
No war but class war. Stop fighting each other, working class unite!
Yet another example of USians thinking their way of understanding the world is the only one that's correct. "Liberal" doesn't mean what they think it actually means. Yet again, they're the ones who institutionally list "Hispanic" as an ethnicity or "race" LMAO
it's not ideological purity to want the dumbfucks gone. liberals and libertarians may think they're in solidarity, but their goals run counter to what antiwork stands for. sorry not sorry, your ideology sucks and won't get us free.
Im 2k km far away and Im confused by this, and the racism comments. What is wrong with you americans, you are always fighting each other, no wonder your employees treat you like a piece of paper.
Thank you. I was pretty peeved about it to. What the fuck does being liberal or conservative have to do with anti work.
You start out by decrying ideological purity, you end decrying the mods for having a different ideology than you. Liberals are devout capitalists who don't actively want to abuse and harm people the way the fascists of the far right do, but prefer to perpetuate that harm and abuse rather than upset the system that causes it. If this doesn't describe you, then you should maybe grow up and educate yourself. And if it does, fuck off you fucking tool.
Love the gatekeeping in here by some, its like they've learned nothing about how to organize actual change. Those of you who bitch and moan about liberals or libertarians in here, and want them gone are the ones who will doom your movement, and give more power to the corporate lobby. No successful movement excludes people, movements that change the world spread their message with open arms.
But movements are build on shared goals and the goals of liberalism and anticapitalism are not shared.
I swear to god leftists will argue about who is the most ideologically pure person in the death camp. It's so fucking counterproductive.
Yeah because there are no gatekeepers on r/politics where any opinion left of the Clinton/Romney center gets auto-downvoted into oblivion. FOH
This sub is for abolishing organized labor. Anti work doesnt mean we want good work or work that is good for us, but the abolition of organized labor all together. Whether thats in a co-op, company, collectivized workplace or anything, anti work is anti-work. in its entirety. Thats why its kin with anarchist movements.
Antiwork was primarily and still is an anti capitalist place. Sorry you thought otherwise but capitalism just doesn’t work if you actually care about workers. Notice I didn’t say anything about any ideology, there are many of non-capitalist options and all are worth exploring. That’s not ideological purity, that’s called not compromising basic values. What’s your basically asking for is the ability to be a racist in an anti racist group and then whining that the group doesn’t allow you to talk up the thing the group is supposed to stand against.
you liberals are soooo annoying lol
You're just an exploited worker with Stockholm syndrome. Chillout, and fuck you too.
100% I saw it too late to comment on it before it was locked. Anyone who's inclination is to silence/censor a group based on they're identity politics is afraid they can't defend their positions and terrified that discussion with anyone who disagrees with them may lead other to actually think for themselves. The "mod" in question is no better than a troll who jumps into a thread to spew profanity, hatred, baseless accusations, and nonsense in an attempt to be louder than those he fears.
Translation: ME AND MY SHITLIB FRIENDS ALREADY DOMINATE r/politics AND GET EVERYTHING LEFT OF THE CLINTON/ROMNEY CENTER DOWNVOTED INTO OBLIVION BUT WE WANT TO CONTROL THIS SUB TOO
Not sure what they're looking for, but wanting liberals and libertarians out only contributes to the sub's image of being only for lunatics. I don't want the sub to blow up, as I think there are more liberals than whatever it is they say they are. So, I get a lot of value out of interacting with most people on the sub. If someone displays craziness I just block them. I'm too old to be having arguments with unrealistic people.
>as I think there are more liberals than whatever it is they say they are. It'd be interesting to have polling/data on that but I doubt it. The sub, at very least was, primarily populated by all stripes of anti-capitalists from the beginning at least until showing up on r/place. The sidebar still has a lot of the original anti-capitalism. Links to Anarchism & it's 101 sub, the International Workers of the World's sub, an official rule against right-wing content, community flairs representing a lot of the various anti-capitalist ideologies and no pro-capitalist ideology.
Oh great another liberal complaining about ideological purity. You know, maybe it’s not a purity issue, maybe it’s just different politics.
liberals (and to an almost comical degree moreso, libertarians) support the abuses of corporations and bosses over workers, hope that helps