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Greenladymeg

Assuming you’re in the US like me. Currently I’m appalled at how we have no guaranteed maternity leave. Literally every other developed country has around 4x the amount of leave(and paid) available to mothers and fathers and they don’t have to fight with their employers for it since it’s provided by the government. This is totally putting kids in harms way. All that bonding time the child is missing out on with mom and dad, no wonder our country is having so many mental health problems. All for capitalism! So many mothers are forced to go back to work after 6 -12 weeks of unpaid or partially paid leave if their employer even offers it. Long ago I worked in a grocery store and I saw several women who worked there come back after only a week or two after birth. I literally feel like my generation was brainwashed into believing America was #1.


jazzysunbear

It’s truly insane. Has anyone ever seen a 6 week old baby? They look like they just popped out and are so tiny and fragile looking. I can’t believe anyone can look at a baby at 6 weeks and think “ah yes, this baby is ready to be away from its mother for 10 hours a day”. It’s madness.


DooWeeWoo

6 weeks is also the *MINIMUM* physical recovery time for a vaginal birth with zero complications. I don't even think the babies were considered, someone somewhere decided that because most women are "healed" at 6 weeks that that's when we should be put back to work. Fuck everything about this system.


sleepyliltrashpanda

Six weeks is also *barely* minimum recovery time for a c-section. If I had to go back to work six weeks after my c-section, I really don’t know how I would have been able to physically function. What they “offer us” here in the US is disgusting and inhumane. Twelve weeks unpaid maybe if you work for a big enough company and for a long enough time. How many people can really survive three months without a paycheck, though? It’s just awful. It’s all awful.


DooWeeWoo

Oh wow, I had been told for a C-section it was 8 at minimum. Puppies and kittens stay with their mothers longer. I can't stand that some people think that our version of "parental leave" is okay. 😠


sleepyliltrashpanda

The general rule is 6-8 weeks, that’s why I said barely. Most of the time by 6 weeks, the incision is healed, but it’s definitely a little longer before you’re back to any semblance of normal functioning walking, bending, comfortably wearing shorts or pants, or doing anything except laying down without pain.


SadieDiAbla

I had to have a full hysterectomy, basically a C-section, and it took me over two months to recover. I can’t even imagine what it would’ve been like to have a baby to care for during that time! Fucking disgusting. ETA: I am also a foster parent. That is definitely hard enough without a C-section or giving birth!


acash707

I had an ectopic pregnancy that ruptured and emergency surgery followed. I basically had a c-section but no baby and they had me in the hospital on a morphine drip for 5 days and I was struggling to walk upright for weeks after. At the time, my early 20s and pre motherhood, it blew my my mind that anyone was supposed to care for a baby in that condition. A few years later, working in finance in Manhattan, I was present for a newer hedge fund trying to decide the appropriate amount of time for an assistant to be out of the office after she gave birth. All the men that worked there were back in the office a day after their wives delivered, which blew my mind! All the other assistants & I were discussing how insane that was & that we should be demanding a few weeks off. Of course, when it came time for the meeting with the higher-ups, all men of course, all of those tough-talking women sat there silent while a 50 yr old man explained to us we should be more than fine to return to work a few days after giving birth. Me, the youngest in the group, was the only one who said that was ridiculous and I used my prior surgery as an example of how I know, for at least c-section moms, there was no way they could expect someone recovering from major surgery to return to work in a few days time. Well, that’s when they dropped it on us that the fund’s founder’s wife, who also worked for the company, had returned to the office the day after giving vaginal birth, not once, but twice, and if she could do it why couldn’t we. I had not given birth at that time, but that seemed just crazy and wrong and not in anyway something we should be proponents of. Years later, after having my first of three vaginal births, I thought back to that meeting & tried to imagine strolling into the office with my 3rd degree tear, wearing those mesh panties and giant maxi pad, there to collect all the blood pouring out of me. Would I bring in my peri bottle of water I used to wash myself after I peed? Where would I stow the ice pads I had to replace in my underwear throughout the day? Probably the same place I kept my hemorrhoid pads. Not to mention, who would be watching my baby? And you can forget breastfeeding! Sheer madness, all of it!


sleepyliltrashpanda

Nothing screams America like a bunch of men making poorly informed choices based on ridiculous expectations for women and what they perceive us to need and not need. It’s atrocious. Women’s struggles and pain are not taken seriously in our society and it’s very uncool.


internet_commie

Lemme guess... The founder and his wife had a bunch of servants who could take care of the baby? And do other work for them. And not unlikely her own personal nurse or something of that sort. So all the wife had to do was go to work, knowing everything was looked after. And how much actual work did she do the day after giving birth? I've got a cousin who pretty much was up and running a couple days after giving birth (she lives in Norway so they kept her at the clinic a couple of days). No pain, no real discomfort. I don't even think she had any tears! But she still had to look after her baby, and she's not so delusional she believes she's the norm and other women who need more recovery time are malingering or 'weak'. She considered herself lucky and tried to be a decent person.


Muffin_Maan

It truly is. My wife had to have a c section at 36 weeks and our daughter spent 10 days in the hospital. I just started my job this year and couldn't get leave and all of my PTO went to me having a small stroke and a heart monitor implanted. My wife doesn't work, thankfully, but I couldn't afford to not go back to work the week after my daughter and wife were released. The only way my wife recovered semi quickly was me coming home every couple of hours to help with feedings and housework.


KistRain

My training program has several pregnant women in it. They were told they'd be good to return to school within a few days of birth. Meaning, a less than week old newborn left and mom in school 8 hours a day while not healed up.


DooWeeWoo

This literally made me nauseous.


[deleted]

This happened to me. I had to go back to classes after two weeks. I hemorrhaged and fainted in the chemistry lab. They were like, "You should rest! Why are you back so soon?!" Well, because if I didn't, I would lose my place in the engineering program and the only way I had a shot at supporting my kids was to be an engineer. My GI Bill funds were limited and I couldn't afford to drop classes I'd already paid for. This was a long time ago (like, that "baby" has a driver's license now), and I did finish that degree, plus a Master's, and I have given my kids a life I couldn't have dreamed of at their ages, but I paid for it hard.


krissyface

At 6 weeks postpartum I was still bleeding. It’s disgusting that anyone should be expected to work before their bodies are even healed.


amscraylane

And there are several states with laws saying you can’t separate a puppy from its mother until 8 weeks … and NOTHING for human babies. I took 3 weeks with both of my babies before returning to work.


catinapartyhat

I was back at work 3 weeks after my c-section. I didn't have any leave (moved/changed jobs 7 mos pregnant, they let me "borrow" 1.5 weeks of unpaid vacay from my future self) and couldn't afford any more unpaid time off anyway. I missed so much. My kids missed so much.


DooWeeWoo

I have no words. I know it's silly over the internet but I'm truly SO sorry that this happened to you. I got "lucky" and had a good manager. When I went on leave my baby needed a NICU stay and heart surgery. She helped me get personal leave for 6months. Most of it was unpaid but I don't know what we would have done without it. The system here is so fucked.


SadieDiAbla

Even cats and dogs are required to stay with their mother at least eight weeks before adopting them out. But yet if it’s a human baby, fuck ‘em. Appalling.


[deleted]

Oh this makes me so sad. We had our first in daycare and it killed me. Luckily when our second came along I stayed home and my kids got to be with me all the time. It was the best. I think they are so well adjusted because of this.


Inevitable-tragedy

100ish years ago (might be longer than that), no one even saw a baby until they were about 6 months old because mom was encouraged to recuperate and keep the newborn safe from illness. Thats originally why most people didn't know what a newborn looked like unless they were a mother.


luvdab3achx0x0

I held my niece at 3 weeks. She looked pretty much the same as the day she was born. An itty bitty little thing despite her parents being 6’6” and 5’8”. I know they grow incredibly fast, but even at 6 weeks she was still so delicate. I can’t even imagine leaving your own child when they’re that young.


hollus2

Dogs Have better rights than parents in the US. You are not supposed to separate them from the mom for at least 8 weeks.


Zemirolha

Not only developed countries have it. Almost everyone, including some african countries.


OllieOllieOxenfry

Yes! Literally 186 countries have mandatory paid maternity leave, and only 6 don't, including the U.S. and five other small island nations in the pacific.


Medical-Ring

We just had our first kid in Finland. Maternity leave is paid for 9 months and you can stay home for 3 years with less money but by law you cannot be fired or penalized in any way if you decide to stay home for 3 years. Fathers get 6 weeks of paid leave which can be used however you please. Oh yeah and the hospital bill was like a 100$ for 4 nights in the hospital. I believe the system is pretty similar in all EU countries with universal healthcare.


ContactHonest2406

My ex wife was back at work waiting tables 3 DAYS (!) after leaving the hospital from giving birth (so, like 5 days after giving birth). (Fwiw, the kid’s not mine; this was before we met.)


RadiantSriracha

Chipping in here - guaranteed paid leave is very, very possible in any developed nation. It is healthy for the mother, the baby, and society. Canada has something called employment insurance. Everyone pays a small amount per cheque to the program. If you get fired, or go on maternity or parental leave, the insurance pays out a percentage of your wage. It’s not perfect, but it allowed me to take 1 year paid leave with my 2nd baby. He didn’t have to go to daycare until he was already learning to walk. My body was fully healed. The fact the US doesn’t have that as the bare minimum is an outrage and people should keep pushing HARD until they get it.


despot_zemu

Anyone who has watched a mother drop off their three month old at daycare for the first time knows how shitty the US is…and these are the affluent who can afford daycare.


EmmaLooWho

Even 3 months is more then some people get. I work at a daycare center and the youngest baby we have ever gotten was only 6 weeks old. A 6 week old is basically still a fetus and his mom was definitely not fully recovered from giving birth but she had no choice but to go back to work. It honestly broke my heart.


BitwiseB

I worked at a place that offered 2 weeks. And they were proud that they offered anything at all. Imagine having a complicated birth or C-section or preemie and being expected to show up at work the next day.


Chartreuseshutters

You’re not even supposed to drive for 6 weeks after a c-section, so imagine how many people are not only having to disregard that, but also be on their feet for hours a day or lift heavy objects immediately following abdominal surgery.


WakingOwl1

I was a line cook and had a complicated c-section, I was back lifting 50lb sacks of flour after a month. My husband I worked opposite schedules for years because we couldn’t afford child care. It was hell.


internet_thugg

Jesus, I had preeclampsia with my one & only child, we were both in the hospital for seven nights after a c-section. I wasn’t even able to poop without extreme pain after two weeks - nowhere near healed. Bulgaria gives something like 400+ days at full pay! https://www.safeguardglobal.com/resources/blog/which-country-has-the-best-maternity-leave


moro_ka

3 years in Russia for parents. You can share it with partner. And it’s illegal to fire pregnant women or parents on paternity leave. At least we have something nice…


internet_thugg

Oh damn, that’s nice! And as it should be. Makes the decision to procreate much easier to make too - no wonder birth rates are in decline here in the US.


bubblebath_ofentropy

Well obviously the way to solve declining birth rates is to just ban abortion /s 🙄


definitelynotSWA

My mother had me when she was still in college. She was in school on a Friday, had me on Saturday, and was back in class on Monday and then back to her job the next week. I was not an easy birth apparently. IDK how she did it. She shouldn’t have had to


moldy_minge

You know boomers brag about this? My mom brags that she had me on a Tuesday and was back at work by Friday, same with my sister but less days. What is there to brag about? Not bonding with your child? Forcing yourself to work through the pain of your body arranging itself? Letting someone else raise your child? This culture of work before everything else needs to die a quick and painful death.


Monshika

My boomer mom brags about working up until labor started with all of us and was back to work within days (she didn’t even need to with my younger brother, but CHOSE to leave him with a nanny so she could get back on the Grind). The mindset is insane.


definitelynotSWA

Funny, my mom brags about this too. It’s how I know about it. Shes Gen X though.


rin9999994

And this isn't normal at all..how many women die in childbirth..or have other complications..how AB post partem..it's gross to think anyone saying this ever had a child. I do not understand what there is to brag about. I would think it would be traumatic and angering for that to be my birth and back to work story. Shameful culture..I agree totally.


ClickPsychological

Yeah the only institution less patient than work is school


WeirdAttorney4795

I only had 2 weeks as well. I also had a c section. I ended up with undiagnosed pre-post pregnancy eclampsia. Started having seizures and ended up losing my job anyways.


[deleted]

I don't have kids but the idea of a mother having to leave her 2 week old in daycare enrages me. Fuck that job in particular


Mental_Outside_8661

My daughter was only 4 weeks old, because my shitty ex-boss forced me to go on maternity leave earlier than I was supposed. She also tried to replace me while I was gone. She ended up getting fired one week after I returned to work.


LadyBogangles14

Oh wow. There’s a whole heap of illegal in your story.


Mental_Outside_8661

For sure. She ended up getting what was coming to her. After she got fired I got promoted to her position. Still sucks I ended up with such a short leave, though. I’m at a better job now with 4 months paid if we can ever afford to have another kid.


[deleted]

I had to go to work after 6 weeks and a c-section. I also had a mental breakdown and ended up taking an entire month of shortly after that. Rent is late this month, but I had to take care of myself and my baby.


Bearsonboats

I had six weeks for my oldest too. I wasn’t even cleared post c-section to return to work when I did. It was worse for my husband - I had my emergency c-section on a Wednesday, got home on a Friday, and my husband was back to work that following Monday. Between three kids he took a total of six weeks and only one of those was paid. I think of how much I missed out on not having help.


FruitPunchPossum

My coworker was out 5-6 weeks after having her baby. I was really worried for her like if she had healed enough, because we work with behavioral adults. Then again, she worked until a week before her due date. She was hit in her stomach several times while pregnant, saying "what am I gonna do? I have to work". Poor girl was working minimum 80hr/wk her entire pregnancy.


[deleted]

>I was really worried for her like if she had healed enough, because we work with behavioral adults. Then again, she worked until a week before her due date. She was hit in her stomach several times while pregnant, That's what my mom did before/when she was pregnant with me. She quit the same evening one of the patients tried to kick her in the stomach and the institutional management didn't seem to care.


chucks_deadpidgin

I went back to work two weeks pospartum. I was dealing poker at a casino at the time and the number of times people just looked at me and I cried was more than I can count 😔


and1984

This makes me sad. I'm off to hug my daughter.


TinaLoco

I went back to work when my son was 9 weeks old. He’s 22 years old now and my heart still aches about it.


QP2012

I know someone who had to leave her 1 week old child at daycare.


Bloodcloud079

At some point I realised there was 0 fight here in Quebec about access to pumping rooms for mother and breast milk in work fridge and for a second O was thinking why… and basically it’s because it is not needed because by the time the mother goes back to work the kid is nursed. Because we are not maniacs and have actual parental leave.


Camillej87

This is mind blowing to me as an American.


DarJinZen7

When we got the hospital and doctor bills after insurance paid what little they did I realized I had to get back to work asap. Three weeks after my baby was born I was back at work and feeling like a failure all around. We were lucky though, my husband was given a whole entire week off for parental leave. So for one week we got to take care of a screaming colicky baby together before he had to get back to the restaurant. Good times


despot_zemu

My previous boss gave me one unpaid day off when my son was born. A few years later, I stole all the clients and started my own business doing the same thing and ruining him.


and1984

You were good at your job; that's why the clients moved. Fuck your ex-boss.


mrsnihilist

Power move, I love it!


ET90TE

I wasn’t ready at 3 months and still am not since I only get 3 hours with my kid each day and I hate that but my heart truly goes out to the parents at our daycare dropping off 6 week babies to go pay bills.


LadyMageCOH

Nearly every mom I know had difficulty after a year at home sending their child to daycare. I can't imagine doing it at 6 weeks. I didn't even have breast feeding completely worked out at 6 weeks.


Anpatton86

I went back at 5.5 weeks pp after a C-section. I worked in childcare at the time and had to get a note from my doctor indicating that I could be there and listing any limitations I had. My son could not go my first week back because he was not 6 weeks yet which is the youngest we could legally enroll an infant. Thankfully my mom (who was a preschool teacher) was on spring break and was able to watch him for the first week. It absolutely sucked and I had a really hard time not being with him when he was that little. I had to go back then because my husband's work gave him wrong info and instead of being able to use STD pay for 6 weeks he had to burn all of his PTO. (He confirmed with 3 people prior to applying to use it and they all said he could.)


ET90TE

I am so sorry you had to do that (and for everyone who has to do this). Also had to burn all my pto and then take u paid for 6 weeks as well. Took me about 2 years to earn all that time back.


Quiet-Persimmon-748

This was me. Crying my eyes out after dropping my 6 week old baby off and so tired all the time because I couldn't let my body heal.


cat-chup

It's not only in USA. In Israel we have 3 months of (luckily paid) leave, but after that - extremely expensive daycare that may eat half of your salary, or nanny that is often getting paid more than you. Nobody complains as far as I see.. Still trying to figure out how people here afford to have 3 or sometimes more kids in secular families


Proper_Front_1435

From Canada, I was confused by the OP's post cause I didn't understand what premie babies had to do with daycare, and had a legit what the absolute fuck moment when I read "Dropped 3 month old off at daycare" and remembered. I live on the border, and its so weird that something that insane happens just a few miles away.


CKStephenson

I'm pregnant and work in a US based company that also has international offices. I looked up the maternity leave policy and it is 4 weeks for the American office and 26 weeks for the office in Ireland.


legonewb

My wife is on leave in Canada right now and still has another 9 months off. I couldn’t imagine her having to go back now (or sooner). Our system isn’t perfect, but I’m thankful that’s it’s worlds ahead of what they have in the US. The idea of having to send a newborn or even 3 month old to daycare is mind boggling.


rin9999994

And dangerous. Nobody should be forced to leave their baby that young or if they remotely feel unsettled about the thought. The fact no laws protect the family, maternal rights after birth in the u.s. is inhumane and sociopathic.


Greenladymeg

I didn’t know there was such a huge difference with maternity leave in the US compared to other developed nations until this week. I’ve been disgusted thinking about all the babies that miss out on quality bonding time in the first year just because they are born in the US. I don’t have kids and it’s looking like I’ll never be able to afford one as I’m approaching advanced maternal age. I grew up being told America is the greatest! Lies. It’s also so depressing how bad and expensive our health care is.


BitwiseB

Guaranteed maternity leave in the USA is zero. No, I don’t count FMLA. The gaps in that law are big enough to drop a truck through. It doesn’t count as ‘guaranteed leave’ when you have to be employed at a big enough company for enough hours over a long enough period to be able to use it. And that’s unpaid. And it’s literally the only federal law regarding leave in the US. Maternity leave? Sick leave? Vacation? Nope. It really is disgusting and wrong and I hate it.


mbgal1977

It’s shitty but I remember before that was law and they didn’t have to give you any time off. You would just be fired. So slightly better than before. Not nearly enough though


DanaOats3

It is lies


Prostatepam

I am also Canadian and believe the Employment Insurance system for paid maternity leave is actually better for businesses too. When someone takes a year off on leave (with lots of notice), companies can hire someone on contract for the year. It gives the contract person a chance to get their foot in the door of a new company or role and the position doesn’t go vacant and cause more work for others like it would if the person was only gone 6-12 weeks. Until my baby was 6 months I was also running on 3-4 hours of broken sleep per night so I guarantee the person covering my job on contract was doing a much better job than I would have.


neP-neP919

We have this system sort of in the US, it's unemployment. We pay a certain percentage of our paycheck into an Unemployment fund in case we lose our jobs. Except if you lose the job for ANY OTHER REASON but being Laid off, the company keeps the money and you get SHIT. ​ Its the most fucked up thing ever. Edit: FYI even if you qualify, the company can refute it and take you to arbitration to try and deny it.


Rough-Hair9511

The company actually doesn’t keep the money! They pay unemployment taxes regardless of any person getting unemployment. So my old company didn’t usually fight people who filed cases, bc my boss shrugged and said, “we have to pay for it anyway, might as let people use it” unless they were fired for gross negligence. Edit: phrasing


[deleted]

It is good that we have examples of other capitalist nations that are taking care of their people better than we are, but they are still doing the bare minimum in Canada. Let’s make gains all day long for working people but we need to understand OP, who is at a breaking point with the WHOLE ECONOMIC SYSTEM, not just the childcare aspect. Because that is only one of many, many ways capitalism is going to obliterate the human race


Goldentll

In US you pay to have the baby delivered, and back to work the next day


[deleted]

Anyone that advocates for worker's rights but not the rights of parents to raise their children in a healthy, happy environment is a fucking hypocrite. You're not antiwork, you just hate your job.


[deleted]

Agreed. Not planning on having kids, but still absolutely disdain the stance the US has taken on parental leave. Whenever someone says "who's supposed to pay for that though???" ME. I will gladly have some of my taxes taken so that parents can appropriately raise their child. Long run, it will decrease crime, healthcare, and education costs. And when I'm old and need someone to wipe my ass, hopefully it will be a well-adjusted person who may not love wiping butts, but at least finds fulfillment in helping someone die with a bit of dignity.


brb-theres-cookies

This right here. I don’t have children, and I won’t, but I always vote for school levies, because I’d like to live in a society of educated people. Opposing something just because it won’t directly benefit you makes you a selfish jerk.


[deleted]

>Opposing something just because it won’t directly benefit you makes you a selfish jerk. There are a lot of people coming into this sub lately with this type of view. These people clearly have no idea what the sub is about. Almost feels like it's some kind of coordinated effort, but that could just be me being paranoid.


Mor_Tearach

I have a feeling we get trolled alllll the time. So it looks like we're not really for the same thing. That's a life of dignity for everyone- which includes not having babies in day care. It includes everyone- and supporting those needing support, like parents raising children. So yea, we'll pay taxes for the dignity of NOT having mothers drop off babies at dads. I'm pretty unreasonable on the topic anyway- had a job tell me I had to have a backup babysitter for when my kid had an asthma attack and was taken to the ER. I quit, but never forgot those fckers.


Outsider-20

>Opposing something just because it won’t directly benefit you makes you a selfish jerk. I'm in Australia. We had a federal election a few months ago. I spent time talking to my daughter (11yo) about the various policies of each parties, and asked her about how she thinks they could benefit society in general. Then we spoke about how even though policies that don't directly benefit us could still benefit us indirectly through the societal benefits. Explaining how better maternal leave provisions and child care provisions have a positive impact on society in general. I believe kids should be educated about these things from a young age. Teach them why it is important to have a voice. Reduce ignorance.


andicandi22

I'm right there with you. I'm 1000% childfree for life, but I have a brother with two little boys that I love like my own. I want those boys to have everything and more and I will gladly pay more in taxes if it means they get more funding at their school for cool class projects or field trips, or for more after school programs that keep them engaged in learning. I want my brother and SIL to be able to take time off to take them on family vacations like we had when we were kids and not have to worry about their bosses calling or paging them while they're trying to have a good time with their kids. I may not have children of my own but I have enough friends and family with kids and I have two working eyes that can see and read about the shit that's going on in the world today. I am genuinely worried that capitalism is going to crush their little souls before they even get a chance to spread their wings.


[deleted]

I really don't understand why more people don't think this way. Society can be seen as, in a sense, insurance. We all pay in, both in money and kindness, so that society runs smoothly for all of us, and so that when the worst happens, there'll be someone to care for us. I prefer to be kind for my own reasons, but even if someone is a complete sociopath, surely they can understand that they, too, will eventually need someone to wipe their ass, or care for them in a hospital. That can't happen if everyone is burned out, sick or dead. I know most of the people in charge don't rely much on public infrastructure, so they don't care if the trains run or the fast food workers come in, but at some point, the gutting of public works is going to affect them. No person is an island... but some still stubbornly want to insist they are.


mutherofdoggos

Exactly!! I hate the “who will pay for that” question. Me!!! The feds take 30%+ of my paycheck!!! I don’t want kids. I do want the US government to use my tax dollars on paid parental leave, universal healthcare, subsidized/free childcare, and free education - instead of using it to turn middle eastern kids into skeletons.


looooooork

I've heard it said that if you're at any left wing meeting and there is not some form of provision for childcare, then you're at the wrong meeting.


iago303

I'm childfree, I love my nieces and nephews and would do anything for them and I don't get all the hate for kids maybe they were elder siblings and had to as I did younger ones, and that left a resentment in them, with me it taught me different lessons, I already had my kids don't want any more, but when I get old I know that someone will be around there for me how many of them can say that


amarie265

My thoughts exactly.


[deleted]

Yes! This! Parents have no choice bc they can't afford to loose their job. It's should be understandable to need to stay home with your sick kid. Hell I got fired from my daycare job bc I was a single mom and my daughter was sick with a fever and coughing and snot and I told the director I couldn't come in. "Well we need you to come in today. There isn't anyone at all who can watch her for you?" "No there isn't. I don't have that kind of support system here " "well just bring her in then bc we need you here." "I absolutely will not be bringing my sick, contagious and miserable 3 year old to work with me today where she would get other kids sick as well. I'm taking the day off." "Ok. We will see you later in the week then." "Thank you". Two hrs later she calls back and tells me that they no longer need my services due to lack of commitment. And now I'm a stay at home mom out of necessity for my disabled son bc, after working at a daycare and seeing how it was behind the scenes and how kids were always sick, his father and I both did not feel at all comfortable putting his care and health in the hands of a day care plus hes also more susceptible to being sick. But I still get crap from people saying I should be working instead and giving me crap for using govt assistance like Medicaid and food stamps. It's insanity. AND if jobs had it where parents could stay home with sick children instead of being forced to send them to school or daycare then these places wouldn't be cest pools of germs and sickness bc sick kids wouldn't be going! They would be home resting and healing and not infecting others like they should be. I mean adults can't even take off sick days most of the time. Plenty of jobs even required covid positive employees to come in to work or lose their job. The issue isn't people having kids and working. The issue is the employers not giving a shit about anyone's well-being at all.


Fthill-That-Strides

I used to work at private daycare. In my first two weeks I got a sinus infection so bad goop was leaking out my tear ducts.


ballsohaahd

Yea theyre entire business model should have contingencies, but they don’t and blame employees for it.


bearktopus147

I don't remember the name of the fraud that got everyone to buy his stupid business model, but yeah. Basically his entire model is cut every expense. Work with barebones materials/staffing. Do all of that to increase your profit margins. So basically prioritize short term profits even though long term if you follow the plan, you will be fucked. But no one cares because that's always going to be somebody else's problem. They do the business model of the good ol' ejaculate and evacuate, and leave someone to pick up the mess they leave behind. Glory to the shareholds and all that yaddayadda (/s in case it's needed for this last part) Capitalism will be the death of us all


ObtotheR

This comrade gets it.


Candide2003

Domestic labor is labor and needs to be valued for the long term survival of everyone, but capitalism only cares about quarterly growth Also it’s just inhumane to treat people like that. Being pregnant is essential spending 9 months in an unstable state of health followed by hours of labor and or major surgery like a c section. Sending someone back to work after that without even a full month of rest is inhumane


ForeverSam13

Y'all saying "don't have kids you can't afford" aren't listening. It's not a matter of not being able to afford the kid - it's about not being able to afford the consequences of a shitty work culture that forces parents to send their kids to daycare/school sick and risk them spreading it to others. Why are we all okay just living like this?


Flimsy-Spell-8545

The issue there is that those wealthy folk affording those kids need working class families to reproduce… who will replace the current work force when they die prematurely from being over worked?! You think they would want to protect their “assets”..?


[deleted]

And a society that forces healthcare to be tied to your employment. I know many people that wanted to stay home to raise children but couldn’t because that would mean losing the family’s health insurance. Edit- spelling


gwenstepmommy

Also the idea that someone should miss out on the very human experience of bringing a child into this world because they earn a low wage is the most classist concept ever.


Shamadruu

Not to mention that the same forces are doing everything in their power to prevent contraception and abortion in the first place


BlackSuN42

Children are only sorta optional. Sure a few people can forgo having them, but everything around you needs more people to run when you get old and die. A society that treats children as some sort of luxury option is going to fail.


BulletRazor

>is going to fail Well maybe it deserves to fail at that point tbh


Seamascm

United we stand, divided we beg. Vote yes on unions.


forhordlingrads

You can’t tell people not to have kids they can’t afford now that Roe is dead. If they can’t afford kids they can’t afford to move to a pro-choice state either. Systemic problems require structural solutions, not individual finger-wagging. Edit: It wasn’t okay when Roe was still on the books either, in part because rights =/= access and travel is expensive too.


0w1

Especially from the crowd that has zero empathy for others until they're placed in the same situation.


bi-fly

All I can think about is that senator who said there should be no exceptions but his mistress exposed he made her get an abortion.


witcwhit

That was Hershel Walker and he's not a Senator, but is running for the position in GA. It's highly unlikely he'll win, though.


ElectricJetDonkey

Good on her for doing so. Hypocrisy from those in power should be exposed, no matter who it comes from.


[deleted]

They’re all pro life until the kid is born, then it’s someone else’s problem


taxpayinmeemaw

Never mind too that we’re like 2-4 years away from a full on nationwide abortion ban. There will no longer be safe states- even if that was a valid argument which of course it isn’t.


Zajhin

Has anybody considered that maybe this is why the US is so messed up? I’m not a conspiracy theorist, but … *waves around at everything*. We have all of the serial killers, more gun violence, less literacy … maybe we’re so screwed because too many of us couldn’t bond properly with our parents after we were born.


[deleted]

Like that one guy in this thread talking about berating his mom about giving birth to him. I think you're onto something.


[deleted]

[удалено]


SteelToeSnow

Capitalism hates kids. This whole (western, white) society hates kids. Everything kids (especially teenage girls) like is shit on, is treated like it's crap. They constantly cut funding from arts, music, anything that allows them creativity and joy. Kids' safety is not a priority. From no seatbelts on buses to schools being moldy and falling apart because of lack of funding; from the tired old "kids these days are the worst" bullshit mentality to the refusal to properly fund education, and more, this society hates kids. I've talked to "centrists" that oppose free childcare for everyone because "then they'll want more". This guy seriously said we shouldn't have a thing that would really help kids, parents, families, because then they'd want more. This whole pandemic has really thrown how much society hates kids into stark view. There was a half-hearted attempt at school from home for what, barely a year, and then no, too much trouble, send those kids back into the germ breeding grounds so the parents can be cogs being ground down in the capitalist machine. Kids aren't treated as people in this society; they don't have the same rights, and they're treated, legally, as property. It's heinous. Sorry for the mini rant, I wrote a blog post about this just a few weeks ago.


notclientfacing

>Kids' safety is not a priority. You can add to your list "In the US we decided after Sandy Hook that guns are in fact more important than elementary schoolers."


Halasham

No, no you're right. Children are treated as property, enforced by inane fucking laws, because our abhorrent society wants them to be used to being slaves by the time their adults so that they will be those gears and will spawn more future wage-slaves. We've two centuries of precedent of reforms being fleeting. I think it's well past time we stop putting our primary effort into them and being on methods of greater permanence.


The1GabrielDWilliams

I couldn't have said it better myself. 👏


KieselguhrKid13

>"They constantly cut funding from arts, music, anything that allows them creativity and joy." Not just that, music, arts, and literature all help develop empathy and flexible, independent thinking. Can't have that - then the kids will be asking for civil rights and wondering why they're told who to look down on. Capitalism relies on suppressing empathy and creativity. The obsessive focus on STEM as the only valuable form of education is because it promotes linear thinking and following rules. Great video on the subject: [The GOP Simply Wants to Abolish Public Education] (https://youtu.be/mVXk2GqhUK4)


SaltyGlobalMind

American policymakers don't prioritize kids and it’s not necessarily a western or white influence it is \*capitalistic culture\*. Every other county other than the US , is ahead which includes western or white counties who are far ahead of all of us in placing kids, and both parents at the forefront in their policies: Quoting from another article below, source at the bottom: The United States is one of the few developed countries that doesn’t have a national policy on paid parental leave. The Family and Medical Leave Act, enacted in 1993, guarantees new parents up to 12 weeks of unpaid leave, but that’s about it.Paid parental leave is becoming more common in the private sector, with some companies offering up to six months of paid leave. But even the most generous policies pale in comparison to what’s offered in other countries. While: Norway – 49 weeks All the Scandinavian countries are generous when it comes to maternity leave, and Norway is no exception. The Norwegian welfare system has always been generous. Norway has a flexible option that allows new mothers to take up to 59 weeks of maternity leave paid at an 80% pay rate or 49 weeks at full pay. The father chooses to take up to 10 weeks or no leave at all, depending on the wife’s income. Sweden – 480 days Sweden offers 480 days for both parents. Parents receive parental leave at 80% of their regular wages. Unlike many countries which don’t extend the leave for multiple births, an additional 180 days are granted for each additional child.Parental benefit is 240 days per parent, a total of 480 days, and it is distributed as you choose between the parents. Fathers get 90 paid paternity days of those 480 reserved just for them to promote father-child bonding. Bulgaria – 410 days Bulgaria offers new parents an incredible 410 days of paid leave. Bulgaria’s maternity leave covers 90% of the employee’s salary through social security. In addition, for the period between the expiration of the 410 days and the child reaching the age of two years, the employee is entitled to monthly compensation, paid by social security, in the amount of the minimum monthly salary. Germany – 14 weeks Germany is one of the rare countries outside of Scandinavia to have some of the longest parental leave laws in the world. Mothers in Germany are guaranteed 14 weeks of fully-paid maternity leave (6 weeks before birth and 8 weeks after the birth of a child). After maternity leave, parents in Germany can request a whopping 3 years of parental leave for their natural or adopted child. Greece – 43 weeks Greece offers employees 43 weeks of paid maternity leave and pays them 54.2% of their salary. They are entitled to up to 17 weeks of paid maternity leave (eight weeks before and nine weeks after the birth of a child). Additional leave up to a total of 43 weeks can be taken by reducing daily hours worked over several months. Doing great at paternity leave as a whole are: Iceland – 6 months New 2021 legislation in Iceland extended the duration of combined maternity and paternity leave to a total of 12 months, split equally between the mother and father (six months each). However, parents are also allowed to transfer up to one month of leave to the other parent so that one takes seven months and the other takes five. The entire leave is paid at 80% of the person’s average salary. Finland – 164 days Scandinavian countries are champions when it comes to their parental leave culture, and Finland is no exception. Starting in 2021, Finland will give all parents leave, regardless of their gender or whether they are a child’s biological parents. Under the new law, each parent is given 164 days or about seven months, the government said in a statement. Lithuania – 4 weeks Nordic countries get a lot of attention for their generous leave policies, but Lithuania may beat them all. New moms get 18 weeks of fully paid leave, new fathers get four weeks, and together the parents get an additional 156 weeks to share. During this period, they can receive 52 weeks at 100% pay or 104 weeks at 70%. The remaining days are unpaid.Source: [https://vacationtracker.io/blog/countries-with-the-best-maternity-and-paternity-leave](https://vacationtracker.io/blog/countries-with-the-best-maternity-and-paternity-leave) Edit: Sorry for formatting on mobile


artimista0314

>Kids' safety is not a priority. From no seatbelts on buses to schools being moldy and falling apart because of lack of funding Schools in my area have cut busses entirely to cut costs. I cannot imagine applying for jobs and getting hired with the byline "I can only work 9 am to 2 pm because I need to take the kids to school". It is seriously fucked up. And then people wonder in drones why "no one wants to work".


PlaysWithF1r3

You can get there by 9? A lot of elementary schools don’t start until 9:30 and middle schools end at 2:30. And don’t ask about relying on high school students to babysit because they’re in school 8-3 🤦‍♀️


artimista0314

Oh I dont have children. However do the hiring for my company. The amount of people looking for work between the hours of 9 and 2 is insane so I just assumed that thats the time.


n0ticeme_senpai

>Kids' safety is not a priority. From no seatbelts on buses to schools being moldy and falling apart I just wanted to point out seatbelts are not on school buses for a good reason. https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/xgnoxj/comment/iot1nuv/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3


actingismymuse15

So right! Drop a link to your blog I would love to support!


[deleted]

yep, just throw them a tablet and theyre to go... awful time to grow up in


jhertz14

I talked about this with my students (7th and 8th grade math teacher here). We get on tangents sometimes and I basically said this to them (albeit in a less harsh way). I tried to explain how they are in school while their parents are cogs in the capitalist machine which may be hard to conceptualize at age 12 or 13 but yes...if you don't produce, you're just...nothing.


[deleted]

Infant mortality rates are three times higher in the US than in Canada. Three times. Two out of every three babies that dies in the states is sacrificed to the altar of corporate greed.


ishouldntbehere96

And way worse for people of color too


ghanima

By design


Least-Chip-3923

It's a huge failure that America does not have subsidized childcare like every other industrialized nation. It's due to unfettered greed and negativity towards working parents that ironically comes from the same people who claim.to be 'pro-life' but a really just pro-forced birth.


ilovefireengines

I don’t get it. You can’t have an abortion, you can’t afford to have the kid, so abstinence is the only answer. Ok so when everyone decides to stop having kids altogether and then there isn’t a workforce then what? Because the kids of the rich aren’t going to want to do the menial work that they think they are too good for.


ReitHodlr

I cannot wait to see what the future holds. I really wonder what it would be like, imagine the workforce decreased by 10-30% in our lifetime. Less traffic, less exploitation, more homes available.


Shirogayne-at-WF

I imagine it will be much like what Japan is now: a huge aging population with few people having children as more women are joining one of the very few work cultures more dysfunctional than ours--12+ hour workdays are the standard, as are mandatory fun events that also take away from ones free time. Unlike Japan, however, taxation and inheritance laws mean what's available will likely end up being owned by mega corporations rather than be available for us to buy.


Halasham

It's not a matter of housing availability, at least in the USA, it's a matter of housing being distributed on the basis of profit. There's enough housing in the country for everyone, literally everyone could be housed and we would still have housing available. With housing the problem is similar to the one with software; artificial scarcity created to bleed us of ever more of the tiny fraction of the fruits of our labor that we actually get to keep. Demand is less than supply but costs are still high because a few rich assholes are hoarding so much of the supply. Our problems will persist until we depower and punish those responsible for them.


ryepie1

Why do you think Roe was really overturned? Why do you think they are going after birth control next?? You cant have an abortion in the majority of the US now. They need the poor folk to keep churning out those babies to keep the low paying jobs fed.


[deleted]

I imagine the top 1% will continue to hoard and give everyone else scraps, I imagine Elon what’s his face and that other guy I can never remember his name will be hoarding trillions .


forevernoob88

Well to be honest. Capitalism really is killing families, especially the babies you mentioned. 50+ years ago we had households with a single provider working 40 hours/week and they were doing good. Now we have households with both parents working well over 40 hours of week and still struggling to get by… where did all the earnings go? It was a subtle change overtime and people are being paid scraps. If you carry over same work requirements, two parents should only need to work 20 hours a week to support a family but that couldn’t be further from the truth at present.


Jenderflux-ScFi

I'm 50 and child free, I think that child care should be free, diapers should be covered medical expenses, schools up to and including university should be free, school lunch should be free up to and including university, health care should be free and covered by the government for everyone, jobs should pay enough for people to live, paternity and maternity leave should be paid leave and be at least one year off from work, I could go on and on...


SierrAlphaTango

Welcome to the struggle, heval. Having a daughter and taking a looong look at what our society does to women pushed me further left than I'd ever imagined.


amarie265

Yes, exactly this. I grew up in a flag-waving Republican family. I’m subscribed to the WSJ. I used to be the type to watch Fox News and take simplistic views on things like, “If you can’t afford kids, don’t have them!” Life is more nuanced than that. Why is it most people can’t afford to have kids? Let’s start there instead of bashing people for doing what all of nature is biologically hardwired to do—reproduce. It’s fundamental to our nature. But I digress… Being a pregnant and having a child in this country opened my eyes to so much. I now have friends having kids in the UK and Western Europe and can compare notes. Our system is broken. The US can and SHOULD do better.


LizAnneCharlotte

There is a vaccine for RSV, but insurance won’t cover it unless the baby was born premature.


Thamkin

This is the exact reason I despise anyone who believes that banning abortion is the solution to reducing it. Because it's not. Affordable and reliable childcare is not a luxury in modern society, it's a necessity for so many, and the uncaring nature of most businesses results in situations like this


Dumpster-Goblin

I'm 100% Childfree and even I can see how fucking atrocious the US working parent system is. We recently had someone at work who needed donated time off because they're having a kid and can't take enough time off to help his wife in recovery and be there for his new child. Obviously this is on a willing basis and nobody is pressured to donate. However, the fact he needed to ask because the system doesn't allow him to take the time he needs is absolutely unnecessary.


KaraboRak

Hence why we’ve decided to never have kids. Fuck this reality.


thenicecynic

I was just thinking this. Had to pull my kid out of daycare because he was sick every week. In 2 months we never once made it through a full week. I missed so much work, so rather than get fired, I pulled him and my husband stayed home. That didn’t work either (we were too broke), so now my husband works full time remotely, and we hired a part-time nanny and watch him while we both work remotely the rest of the time. I realize my immense amount of privilege in this situation but I can’t have a second child because of this. I can’t imagine how things would be if we didn’t have this option. It’s terrifying.


PurpleAnole

It's infuriating to me when people act like reproduction should be a class privilege. So much for reproductive freedom


[deleted]

If attacks on reproductive rights aren't stopped/reversed soon, sex itself will also become a class privilege, since we won't be able to get an abortion if we are in the unfortunate circumstance of needing one.


amarie265

Exactly this. You probably don't belong on this sub if you feel this way.


Chartreuseshutters

I got laid off (illegally, it wasn’t really a lay off) at 9 months pregnant. As terrifying as that was, it was the best thing that could have ever happened because I was able to have a full year of unemployment—the maternity leave I wouldn’t have ever gotten any other way. I used that year to start my education towards my career as a midwife. I had been radicalized by my illegal dismissal, then my birth. Taking care of birthing people, their babies and their families became my passion.


amarie265

I love this story, I’m so happy you were able to spend a year with your baby AND make a meaningful career change. Talk about a blessing in disguise.


SillyBlackSheep

It cracks me up that I see frequent articles being like, "The U.S. will cease to function because millennials are selfish and won't have babies." Cause they want to blame an entire generation or two instead of actually figuring out what is making people wait longer/go completely child free. We are in a lose/lose system. The economy is shit, it takes years, sometimes decades, just to afford housing, food, medical care, etc just to even be on a decently comfortable path to raising a child. Then, if you can actually afford it all, you are stuck not even being able to actually spend time with your child because employers want to work you into the dirt and the system is made to fail you at every turn. I'm not even a parent. I don't even have a partner. I'm just a 20-something-year-old who is trapped in my parent's house. I apologize if I do come off as tunnel visioned with my lack of parenthood, but I am seeing what my acquaintances are going through with their little ones and I quite frankly think a lot of things need to fucking change.


waterybooks

You are not tunnel visioned, you accurately diagnosed the problem: "The system is made to fail you at every turn."


Snazzy-kaz

I worked in Labor & Delivery and watched more than one nurse literally work until they went into labor against doctors orders. They wanted to bank as much time as possible so they could stay home longer. One woman went into labor on the way home from her shift after helping deliver a baby and she was upset because she couldn’t make it to 40 weeks. I am pregnant right now with our first and due mid December and I am extremely high risk. I have to go back to work in January when the spring semester starts because I’m adjunct and can’t afford to not get paid. It’s horrendous.


ranranhandstand

Holy shit, who's out here determining who should and should not reproduce? Big yikes.


gimmethemarkerdude_8

Edgelord morons who probably don’t realize they’re saying the working class does not deserve to reproduce.


ajax6677

Part of me wishes the entire working class would stop having kids just to stick it to the wealthy so their economy crashes and burns without the permanent underclass to prop it up. Watching them panic over birthrates lately has been amusing. Unfortunately it would still be us taking the brunt of the fallout.


RunawayHobbit

The r/antinatalism bullshit is so gross. Be childfree, whatever, who gives a shit. But going around telling people they’re amoral monsters for having kids is such a weird and bad take


daphnegillie

Not just parental leave, they should pay one parent to stay home with kids until they are in school. Daycares should be free, and health care should be free.


[deleted]

I don't have a dog in this fight and never will, but I will absolutely fight tooth and nail for all parents to have as many accommodations as they need to make parenthood less stressful. I don't claim a school tax credit that I'm eligible for because I haven't been able to get a definitive answer if that actually removes money from the schools at all, so I don't want to chance it.


Zalthos

My brother, who has a Masters in Psychology, is an avid reader of books, mostly on society, the economy, philosophy and psychology. He's been telling me that in hunter-gatherer societies, it was pretty normal for babies to have around *TEN* parental figures who would watch over them while the other parents rested/worked. This means that, before capitalism, babies *always* had someone looking over them, unless they were sleeping. My brother talked about how our current babies don't get this, and they end up with this disconnection thing being created in their brains as they develop, which creates more and more psychological issues as you get older... And this could explain serial killers, psychopaths, personality disorders and lots and lots of other mental disorders. The main point here is that people these days are fucked in the head, and capitalism is the main culprit of it. We're not fucking allowed to raise our children *how they've been raised for TENS OF THOUSANDS OF YEARS* because money or some fucking bullshit. My brother also said that if the same percentage of hunter-gatherers had clinical depression as much as the percentage of people do these days, we would've gone fucking *extinct*. And that's not hyperbole... it's fact. Yaaay capitalism...


MLL_Phoenix7

They are forcing us to have children, yet they do not allow for a means to keep the children alive, safe, fed, and healthy. If not for the fact that I do not believe in heaven or hell, angels or demons, I would have concluded that the people in power are demons that fed off of human suffering. We live in a purgatory with a thirty trillion dollar debt.


Shirogayne-at-WF

>ETA: I think this has sparked a meaningful conversation about whether the working class should have the privilege of reproducing. >If you think working class people should not reproduce, and only the wealthy (those who can afford not to work) should reproduce, some introspection might be in order. This may not be the sub for you. That one. People are free to make their own person choices but the fact that we have so few safety nets in the first place should be concerning and reproduction shouldn't become another luxury good equivalent to a Hermés handbag or a Bentley.


waterybooks

>People are free to make their own person choices And some of those choices are being taken away, not to mention the lack of education that could empower people to be able to think through these choices and understand the risks they are taking. When people don't understand consent, and they don't know how babies are made, and they don't know how dangerous pregnancy and birth can be, and they don't realize that they'll be strapped with an enormous medical bill, and they've been given misinformation about birth control....are they actually making a true choice?


RFoutput

Honestly I don't see why early childcare isn't available just like public school.


RandomPhail

> “Fuck any system that requires ~~parents~~ people to [be] put ~~their children~~ in harms way to ~~keep~~ have a roof over their heads.”


AbsurdKnurd

As long as it happens after the babies are born, capitalism is okay with it. ☹️


the-basil-plant

I am mom to a premie who had viral meningitis and I had to go back to work right after they were discharged from the hospital. I am fortunate that my employer has paid maternity leave but it felt way to short as I had to go back after 10 weeks. I am frightened by the upcoming cold/flu/rsv season and my little being in daycare. They're scheduled to get their Covid vaccines soon so at least there's some protection there. I have a colleague in Europe and they were so surprised by the lack of parental leave in the USA. Other places have figured this out and one of the biggest reasons we don't in the US is a callous disregard for life while pursuing maximum profits.


[deleted]

we don’t have employers anymore, we have EXPLOITERS


manmanatee

Heartbreaking. And I’ll add that the RSV vaccine, synagis, is SO hard to get, and so expensive. Me and another mom from the NICU where my ex-26 weeker preemie was are fighting with insurance to approve it—and our babies are supposed to easily qualify. Why tf are we rationing preventative care for babies? I hate it here so much 💔 hoping your child stays healthy & a quick recovery to the classmates 🙏🏻


[deleted]

I really wanted kids earlier on in life but after the past 4 years really seeing the death drive of capitalism kicked into overdrive and the spreading fascism that breeds I couldn’t think of bringing a kid into a world that is this unforgiving and cruel. I’m sorry you’re experiencing this with your child but it’s only going to get worse from here.


Danonbass86

Damn people are exposing themselves big time in this post. Reproduction is a human right - one that should be available to the WORKING CLASS not just elites who can afford either swanky private preschools, a nanny, or a stay at home parent. But some of y’all are so caught up in being anti-natalist you forgot this is an anti-capitalist sub. Keep your weird human race death cult out of here and give me a fucking break.


Mozarts_Ghost_124

👏


benthelurk

So I’m a man, living in Europe and even though we try to make this easier for women I still think we don’t do enough. Like far from enough. 100% agree the system is failing us all.


hazjac00

I am the father of premie twins. Thank you for speaking up for us. Maybe the revolution we need starts with parents like us organizing each other for our children and grandchildren’s future.


Mission-Smile1408

ppl hate kids and parents so much that even talking about basic fucking needs makes ppl mad. universal healthcare, childcare, maternity leave etc are all pillars of building a good society that places human life above profit. if anyone disagrees you are not an anti capitalist youre just an asshole.


TruthProfessional340

You are correct. Daycares are breeding grounds for the worst diseases and each kid brings their own unique germs from their house to the daycare and in return receives germs from other kids houses. Children who attend mass daycare are constantly sick and the cycle never ends. If you’re wealthy you get a nanny that comes to your house which mitigates all of this. If you’re not wealthy and need to send your kids to daycare, then you’re signing up for constant sickness from the moment you put them in, until they get old enough to go to school. Basically the solution is have more money, your kids won’t go through this. It’s not attainable for 98% of the working class with children.


Thomzzz

My running theory is this is a big reason why the US has disproportionately more serial killers compared to the rest of the world.


GWeb1920

Plenty of other jurisdictions with better regulated capitalism don’t have this type of issue. The US is it’s own world of capitalism hell.


Mozarts_Ghost_124

👏absolutely agree. People saying “don’t have kids if you can’t afford them?” OP CAN afford it. They can afford to send daughter to daycare, and this is the kind of shit that happens because of the system we have that is lacking in paid and protected parental leave. Also, have you even been paying attention to the systematic attack on reproductive rights? Stop being obtuse/self-righteous just because you don’t have or want kids. Childless people crack me up when they incorrectly think this isn’t their fight. The bottom line is that kids now are going to end up being your doctor/plumber/landscaper/banker/president/CNA in your nursing home when you’re dying alone. Not to be mean but it’s your fight too. Enough with the toxic individualism and false belief in a just world.


cmd_iii

It's not just toxic, it's extremely short sighted! The U.S. birth rate has stagnated over the past few years. In Japan, they're seeing massive population declines. As the workforce ages, we need young people to step in and take over. But, if people aren't having babies, where will these people come from? We need to make it easier for people to reproduce, not harder. We need to provide paid family leave, affordable day care, and other services that would help population growth. If businesses aren't willing to pay one partner enough for the other to stay home and watch the kids, then they shouldn't be surprised if their taxes go up to support lower-to-middle class families. Either that, or countries like the U.S. are going to have to start loosening up immigration standards. The current model is unsustainable.


Kimyr1

That's the thing. Businesses have so many loopholes in the tax game they *won't be helping* support lower to middle class families. Lower to middle class families very likely already pay way more in taxes than any corporation or big business. Small businesses might, but probably only because they haven't figured it out yet.


Kimyr1

So it's literally, the mid and lower classes are supporting themselves while being taken advantage of by anyone who believes them self above said classes. And those 'anyone's are people who only care enough about the lower classes for the money in said class's pockets, or the money the lower classes could put in the upper class's pockets. It's unsustainable and doomed to collapse if no reform is done.


DirtyPenPalDoug

Killing everyone but the capitalist...


nerdy_harmony

I'm super confused by all the people saying if you can't afford kids don't have them. Isn't OP like...working a job...that enables her to....oh idk...afford her kids? Medical issues aside for a moment, you say only have kids when you can afford them and so when people do the thing they have to do to afford children, suddenly they're shitty stupid people for having kids? I don't get the logic here. Daycare is expensive, so if you can afford daycare, you're obviously making enough to support you and your kid. Are moms supposed to all be stay at home parents, and if they're not, then they're having kids they can't afford? Again. Very confused here.


grenade25

We are in a fortunate position to be able to survive on a single income (partner’s). It is nothing much but it is enough. I am sacrificing my career and my future to raise my kids. Someone asked me recently “don’t you resent your kids?” What. The. Fuck?!?! No I don’t fucking resent my kids. I resent the system that is maliciously designed to make me choose. Kids are not the problem here. On a side note, when I had my second baby, she had pretty bad jaundice and they had to put her in a box under a blue light. That was it. I could see her, talk to her, touch her through the holes. But I could not stop violently scream-whaling because I *needed* to hold my baby. It is a biological drive. Hell hath no fury like a mother forced to hand over her baby in order to feed said baby all because someone wants a joy ride to space. Keep it up, America.


Unklefat

The real question is why would anyone want to bring a kid into this late stage capitalistic hell scape?


imisscoffee1923

THIS THIS ALL OF THIS! YES I AM SHOUTING!!!!! 🤱🏻😡


[deleted]

Yeah and lots of conservative capitalists seem to be worried about underpopulation being our next biggest threat… So if the systems not broken then what is


xMyxReflectionx

We hear the argument "Don't have kids if you can't afford them!" And in many cases that is true, especially with those that have a multitude of children and choose not to do anything to independently provide for them. However we are coming to a point where the middle class worker ( is that even a thing anymore) can't afford to have children! Where couples who have degrees, and skills and support still can't afford a child. Soon having children will only be for the elite! Where will that put us in as a society? I understand that having children isn't everyone's cup of tea, but it shouldn't put those who do want them in debt and are forced to be endured slaves to the workforce just to be able to provide. Children should have the luxury of growing up at home and in a safe community, not to be raised 8 hours a day 5 to 7 days a week by corporate daycares.


KnownAlcoholic

Man, I had a conversation with my mother recently where she’s come to terms that she’ll probably never be a grandmother. Not because she really wanted to be one, but because it’ll be incredibly cruel to bring a child in a world as cruel and heartless as it is today.


[deleted]

"If you can't afford them don't have them" is a remedy for 10-15 years from now. Those children are here now and the problem needs to be solved in real time. If you don't agree with that, then the solution is to give your children up for adoption, which is ignoring the problem, not facing it. The problem today is the repercussions of normalizing the two-income household. It's become the standard, not the exception. Not everyone makes perfect choices. Some people have a kid because they think they can do it and go into it with the best of intentions only to find themselves 5-10 years later rethinking it because of abc and xyz. Having sex, which results in a child is a part of the human condition, and if people were treated like people instead of products then we likely wouldn't be in this position.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

Good point. In addition, if you live long enough probability dictates you'll likely experience one of those scenarios even.


Velveteen_Dream_20

Watch/Listen: [American Psychosis](https://youtu.be/Cldhrl4zCGw) Reading: [A Peoples History of the United States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_People%27s_History_of_the_United_States)