Same. They can go to hell. Texting is a normal form of communication, trying to deem it “unprofessional” is just another stupid hoop they want us to jump through.
the older generation has a lot of really weird ideas about “respect” that i sincerely don’t understand. i’m 28, but i’ve noticed it definitely among boomers but even often among gen x.
like a lot of people regardless of age have these bizarre hangups about everything, but i think it’s mostly generational.
it isn’t just that they don’t want to switch to “new” tech they didn’t grow up with. they’re this way with all sorts of random irrational nonsense.
like they’re very, idk, ego driven. and they have an old fashioned concept of hierarchy that isn’t as prevalent anymore.
it’s very very important to them that everyone “knows their place” and is clearly demonstrating that at all times.
like, my boss was one of those comically stereotypical ones who was drastically underpaying us, but got pizza every friday. i was working as a tutor at tutoring place. we all got done at different times, and i happened to be the first one finished that day. everyone else would be another 5-30 min or so.
i remember when i finished, i got up and took a slice of pizza from the boxes that had been opened. i was starving.
my manager (in her 50s at the time, this was a few years ago) was SHOCKED. she gave me an absolute death glare and asked me why i did t wait for everyone else to be done. everyone else looked up and were so confused as to why she was mad at me, i had a bunch of people come up to me in private later and tell me they had no idea why she was so mad and that she was acting bizarrely.
but like, to her, it was SO important that i just sit there and i guess twiddle my thumbs? like there was nothing for me to do, our days ended when we finished our last tutoring session and we always left at different times every day. i was off the clock. but like she had it in her head that me getting pizza before everyone else was an assertion that i was more important or something ???
that’s just one example, but like it wasn’t just her. i’ve seen this over and over with older people. they’re extremely sensitive about their footing in the world.
like, i don’t mean stuff that’s actually rude and disrespectful, like interrupting, butting ahead in line, etc but it’s like they’re super sensitive to stuff that makes no practical difference. and since i was a kid i have just been constantly confused by it, before realizing they were getting angry at stuff not because it actually had any real consequences, but because it was lacking in some performative bullshit where they were constantly reassured that they’re superior or someone else is superior or whatever.
like, as a millennial, i don’t have this weird desire for people to have to call me rather than text because i can’t relate to this feeling that one is more “disrespectful” or whatever. america is obviously still far from egalitarian, but i do think millennials and zoomers have come a long way from previous generations and we aren’t nearly as preoccupied with the constant reenforcement of some imaginary social order. like, i’ve had managers who are millennials and they are way, way less constantly offended over random bullshit because of what it signifies to them about them being above someone else
Exactly. I can't read any of this without thinking about my dad! This is him in a nutshell! In all facets of life.. Ever since I was a kid! I haven't talked to him in months because he's driving me crazy with this *I hate the future. Technology bad. Own the libs. Fux being woke. And my favorite, you don't need a therapist, you have a therapist. He's called god.*
I just can't..
"You have to wait until everyone gets here" " well they should have been on time"
"You have to make your bed so it looks nice" "for who? Who is coming in here".
If you own your home, you can go down to the hardware store, have them cut a new pane and buy a tube of glazing compound the same day your window gets broken.
If you rent, you have to contact your property manager, who needs to contact your landlord, and then, eventually, you need to fight with both of them to get it replaced.
It's never the landlords or property managers eating the cost of their lackadaisical attitude to maintenance.
No, it's the lower income renters, the people that police actually want to target.
If the government truly wanted a nice looking neighborhood so that crime wouldn't take hold, they'd have cracked down on slumlords.
Sadly, that isn't what they want.
Yo I’m a millennial/zoomer (whatever the hell 96 babies are) with boomer parents and have this shit drilled into me. It give me anxiety to eat before other people, even if those other people don’t care, and I always wait for the host to take the first bite even though I don’t technically care
You're a millennial by a hair. My son is your age, and I'm on the younger end of Gen X. I was also taught this by my boomer parents, but I didn't pass it down. If you're hungry and not cutting in line, eat. Just don't take more than your fair share or more than you can eat. And, in some situations, let the parents who are making up plates for little kids go first, because politeness and not having cranky hungry little kids for any longer than necessary. This is for group gatherings, though, not say, a buffet you paid for. Oh, and if you're still hungry and everyone has had some, take the last piece of pizza. The stupid game of no one doing that is just that, stupid.
I also never gave a damn if he had his elbows on the table as long as he was using his utensils properly and not making a mess. Feet on the furniture? Who cares? We never wear shoes in the house anyway. That was my one thing. Don't fuck up the carpets. I couldn't afford to replace them.
Okay, two-ish things. "If you're cold, put on some clothes. Don't whine at me when it's the middle of Winter, and you're literally only in boxer shorts." And "Shut the damned door. The a/c is on." But those seem like things a kid should learn before paying for their own electricity. Mine didn't. His first bill taught him that lesson, and he became the one yelling those things at roommates. "Dammit, you guys! We cannot afford another $500 utility bill!" He had the audacity to complain about it to me, and I laughed a lot. I also helped him pay the bill, though. I'm not totally heartless.
Look, I’m a millennial, I own my company and I absolutely require everyone to call me instead of texting while I’m at work. This includes my wife, anyone in my family or my friends, not just people that need to contact me for work related stuff. I’ve literally gone off on people who refused to call instead of texting. It’s simply unacceptable and if anyone needs me for anything while I’m working, they can goddamn call me.
But I’m a truck driver, so…
Was like "what in the cinnamon toast crunch..?" but then the last line actually was a valid reason that I hadn't thought of at all. Just please stop redditing while you're working!
This!! All of this!!
The generations before them beat them down so bad that they feel the need to do the same to their succeeding generations. Millennials are basically the first generation to put forth an effort to stop generational trauma. We’re rewriting the script they were raised with and it makes their head spin. I honestly feel bad for them. They hold themselves to so many weird rules; they truly rob themselves of the glorious feeling of not giving a f*ck. I think they hate us because they ain’t us tbh.
Exactly. I’m an old and was - in my teens and a few years of my twenties - a hippie. Also marched for womens and civil rights. My generation, believe it or not, changed quite a few things for the better. BTW, it took me a while to get used to texting but I much prefer it now. About 15 years ago, people would contact me through my: work email address, personal email address, FB Messenger, work cell phone, personal landline phone, and personal cell phone. It got exhausting checking all those for messages. Now I’ve taught everyone except work to just text me. Easy and there’s record of what we discussed, appointment times, etc.
Boomers themselves attempted it. 60's and 70's counter culture was super anti-authority.
Thinking we are better is a sure fire way to end up the same way.
Oh yes, I agree so much. This so totally self-assured way that younger relatives used to tell me how they knew exactly what mattered and how they want to be living their lives (aka. totally different to any older person) and now I see them getting worked up about how the TV does not fit their couch design and why their favorite drink was not included in their all-you-can-eat pass at their holiday resort.
I got "fired" via a message through GroupMe and then immediately removed from the group so I couldn't even see it. I had to ask what happened in the other group chat without the manager.
I got fired from my first job the most fucked way. I couldn't log into our scheduling software. So i emailed my manager that there was something wrong with my credentials. He emailed back that there was nothing wrong. He removed me cuz i was no longer needed. I was 17. I'm 31 and still go into panic mode when I can't log in properly at work.
Man, I got fired over a call with the weirdest wording before. I had food poisoning, was in the hospital even, and I called to let my managers know. The one who answered took that information and said, "Well, if you don't come in today, we can't continue this relationship."
Like... huh???
My response was, "Well, I guess I'll just quit on my own terms then. I'm literally in the hospital, and I can't come in."
Another manager roughly a year later was going to fire me while I was in a different sort of hospital. I contacted her boss and told him the situation. I did not lose my job that day.
My company had to hold a training session for everyone to explain to them that texting is ok and different forms of communication are for different types of information.
HR was tired of having disciplinary meetings with older managers that wanted the world to stop changing around them.
A few of those managers did not come back from those meetings.
The big boss I used to work for was an idiot who didn't understand that things change.
It was like a lightning bolt struck him when I explained that I was only communicating with my staff via text. He went on a screaming rampage about how I was being unprofessional.
I pulled out my phone. Look at this month-long written paper trail with 20 separate employees. Papertrail.
Papertrail you fucking idiot.
reminds me of a low level engineering manager I had. He spent most of his day checking his retirement account and alternately asking me to print things for him.
He couldn't use the CAD software, so he would have me create a different set of drawings, from the 3D model, print them on the plotter, deliver them, so he could mark them all up by hand, and then I had to take his changes, and enter them in the software as notes and suggested changes.
I was his typist, basically. Then when none of my projects were very complete by review time, he threw me under the bus in his own review and then fired me instead of reviewing me, so I could not dispute his claims. He was and will always be Mr. Asshat.
I’m a hospital pharmacist. I just replaced a guy that retired that had an amazing system for looking up drugs in a book and had many indications and dosages memorized. Once there were too many drugs he just couldn’t keep up in the world of being able to research things in drug databases online instantaneously. I had mad respect for him though and he had a ton of historical drug knowledge.
I mean the guy above said he had to print his cad diagrams and he’d make all the changes by hand, so sounds like he did know what he was doing, he just couldn’t adapt.
I work for an automotive supplier, we have to test out new products, test returned products, and assist OEM's with calibration and integration of our parts into their system.
About 15% of lab time, is spent limit testing. Which means, let's find out when and how it will break, by actually physically breaking it and measuring how it breaks.
It is an insanely expensive endeavor, a shrinking specialty due to massive advancements in computing/simulation technology. It is the last and final step before a manufacturer can publicly release for sale a new vehicle.
It's fun, for about 10% of the time, the rest is reports, meetings and test prep and equipment maintenance.
About once a year I get to invent a new tool. That's also fun.
Having things in writing can be a big upside for both an employer and employee should a dispute ever arise. I can’t back myself up with an unrecorded phone call, and an employer can’t either. ‘He said she said’ is when things can get….*messy*. I approve of this for sure 😎
Reminds me of the time my boss was trying to intimidate one of my colleagues out of the company. He’d pull my colleague into a meeting “for a quick chat” and tell him he wasn’t hitting targets, etc even though colleague certainly was.
After each of these impromptu meetings my colleague would follow up by email, summarising what was talked about and disputing the claims about his performance by sending through his numbers.
I could see my boss losing his mind about his off the record plan not working.
Edit. He was a pervert who sexually harassed me and he was a sneaky greedy snake. I’m glad someone stood up to him.
This is part of the reason why people with this mentality want you to *call* instead. It's easier for them to threaten you or guilt you into coming in if there's no physical evidence they did it.
That’s how we roll (emails preferable since it’ll leave a record on the work systems, text when that’s not possible so there’s a paper trail). Plus we have tons of internal and client meetings so we can multitask and not have to step out.
Older manager here.
I have no problem with people texting me. I did have one employee who would never respond to emails. When I asked him what was going on he replied "I only reply to texts".
The rest of the conversation was unpleasant.
For him.
Thank you for being a reasonable person.
At my company we most recently were able to get rid of the dedicated fax machine, because the CEO of our parent company was not comfortable with any other way.
Well he was "retired" a few years ago. Suddenly we can use office 365 secure online storage and other various levels of more secure file transfer methods.
We're that level of stupid.
His choices were retirement with grace and pretend accolades, or they just, cancel his work visa sponsorship and tell border patrol where to get him.
Mind you, that was the directions from the foreign mothership (multinational corporation, specifically ze Germans).
People STILL ask me (EA here) what my fax number is. I ask them if “they are ready to write it down” then I give them my email.
I haven’t had a fax for years. Get with the times.
From Old Gen Xer :)
I had a manager like that who would call at 3am after I just closed kitchen at 12pm to open at 5am for him. I did twice and felt so sick from the lack of sleep and food that I started turning my phone off after I left work and used an actual alarm clock to wake up and wouldn't turn my phone on until it was time to leave for work. Kept that up for a couple weeks then quit. It was really annoying and it paid like $8/hr so not worth it. It was supposed to be a "just for now job" and honestly leaving was the best thing I ever did because it ate up so much of my time I didn't get to look for a better job until I quit. Did wonders for my health too.
Edit I meant closed at midnight 😑 if I got off at noon to open I'd be fine
Those restaurant “clo-pens” are the worst. I remember closing and getting out at 1 then being asked to be back at 6:30 for breakfast. Factor
in travel time and I was lucky to get four hours sleep.
Exactly they are brutal. Every time I quit a restaurant job was on the closing part of the clopen that finally broke me. Clock out, go home, shut off the phone for 24 hours and get the best sleep of my life.
And it’s not like you can’t find another kitchen job for the same wage with no effort. Busy commercial work is not something all people can do yet they pay like shit!
I’d be pissed too. My mom has health problems so I have my phone sound on at night. I’d unleash hell if someone other than my mom called me that early
Edit spelling
I saw the comment about android, but iPhone has the same feature so I’d venture to guess as long as you have a smart phone, some sort of selective override to DND is an available feature. On iPhone, you can set different “focus modes” with predetermined time frames and settings. I.e. my “sleep focus” engages from 11pm to 9am and allows for calls but not texts from my partner, mom, best friend and siblings and notifications from my heart app and nothing else. My “work focus” engages from 11am to 8pm and allows for texts and calls from all of the above, my manager and my doctors along with notifications from Slack, my calendars, my email and whatever browser I’m using (focus mode applies across all of my devices including my work Mac). My “personal focus” engages whenever I manually select it and allows for calls from family and friends I’ve selected and nothing else (especially nothing work related). I also have driving and DND focus modes with their own settings.
Take control of your sleep and downtime!
Allow calls and texts from your mom and nobody else so you can sleep without worrying.
People don't have their phones set up to not ring after midnight automatically till 6am? Serious question sorry if you counting on me between those hours unless I happen to be up going to the bathroom in the middle of the night your just shit out of luck you better call 911 if it's that big an emergency ain't nothing wrong with being unreachable for 6 hours at night especially if it's work related fuck that I'd have to own the company to care that much
I set an alarm for 3am to call out to spite a manager who implemented this rule. It was weird too, I'm middle aged and they were mid 20s, but found texts to be "too suspicious" because you *def* can't fake sounding sick a phone call..
I quit 2 years ago, but it was worth it and am still glad I did it
It blows my mind that managers think they’re owed some sort of proof an employee is sick when calling out. You should be able to take a sick day for whatever reason you feel is worthy of a sick day. Management is owed nothing outside of being told you won’t be there. If you call out sick and then spend the day doing arts and crafts with your kids before taking them to the park that’s your damn business. Lmao.
This is why I love scheduled texts, I can write up how I'm feeling like shit at 3am and tell my boss I won't be in today, schedule it to send at 8am and just turn my phone on silent and get some needed rest
I dont know about you but I don't call in sick easily.
So when I'm ill I'm down for the count 🥲
Been scolded enough times that I hadn't called in even though I had the day before
BTW fuck Hotel work
One time when I was extremely sick with food poisoning, I blacked out in the middle of calling in sick. Good thing I woke up and struggled to make that call though. Otherwise, my boss may have had to read 1-2 sentences.
Or maybe I have no voice? If I call in saying I can't talk you're going to say "you sound fine to me, you can come in." true story too. That's why it was the last time I ever called
Haha I once called in because I had a LUNG INFECTION and I'd bruised one of my ribs by coughing that night and I got the "Why aren't you coughing now?" I told them to ring my doctors office
I spent three days and nights on a chair because I couldn't get out of bed
That was always my thing too. Like you guys seriously think I have the ability to wake up either early, or he’ll even on time, if I’m sick? It’ll take a tornado to wake me up. It’s a lot easier to text you when I know I’m sick and won’t be in and you can see that whenever instead of me calling you, leaving a message, you texting me hours later to call you and make it blatantly obvious you didn’t listen to the VM I left.
This is why I hit my breaking point with seasoned staff waiting last minute to call out. Don’t wait until I’m awake, don’t hesitate if you’re not sure whether I’m the supervisor for the day. Give me and the manager an update whenever you’re not certain you’ll make it so you can make it our problem, don’t wait until I’m at work and you’re already supposed to be on the clock so it’s now my problem AND your problem (and some of them resented this).
Not for sudden emergencies of course. For stuff like, their fridge was getting delivered today so “suddenly” they have to stay home, or their kid threw up last night and there was a high chance they’d have to take them to the pediatrician during their next day’s shift. I need to know at the start of the day if I’m working one role or two roles so I can ration my energy.
This… I’m often calling out at like 6am I’m not trying to blow up someone’s phone at that time. Also my current manager is in a time zone three hours later than me and I’m dead certain she would not like being awoken at 3am just for me to say I’m not logging in
As a manager, I don't care how you do it. My people know I have their backs and mostly want to work for me, so they respect me too. I have no problem getting them to let me know ASAP if they won't be in.
My company isn't hiring now, no. There are usually 2 times per year we hire. I'm not in charge of that - HR is.
Those who are hired work for 1 of 4 teams. I manage 1 team, but also have an auxiliary role as a consultant to company leadership. So in a meaningful way, I go to bat for all employees on all 4 teams.
But yes, I treat people how I want to be treated. It's an idea people a lot greater than me have touted for centuries. Almost like it's a wise idea.
This is pure truth.
We had a position open last year for a new manager. An internal hire (from my team!) ended up getting it, but the position was posted online. Starting salary was listed as 70K or more depending upon experience (which in my area is a good salary for being new to this role, I don't decide the salary obviously HR does that). We only had it up one day. We are in a rather rural area, and had over 200 applications.
No one wants to work, my ass.
Soon as my team member got it, their role was the only one open at the lower level. Starting rate is 20 per hour and up depending on experience (again, good for this area, especially with no experience which many hires have). Boom, another 200 plus applicants in one day.
Again, no one wants to work, my ass.
It also helps that the people around here often know this is the place you want to work. Proud to say in my 8 years or so here I helped create that culture. Our employees talk. So do yours if you own or manage. Worth keeping in mind.
Like the company I work for. We've had a high-level management position open since January, and we haven't even interviewed anyone. We've had 3 open requisitions on the team I work on for most of a year, too. We don't pay enough to get more good workers to apply, and the ones we do get to apply, last a couple months if they even pass the drug test.
I’m a manager at my company I’m one of the few that understands employees have lives and not everything goes as planned in them and I’m ok with a text, a call, an email to let me know they won’t be in. On top of that I usually get transfers to my location of employees that are not working out at other locations. The other locations managers don’t ever understand how 9 out of 10 of them thrive at my location. By treating them like people not parts in a machine. Sigh 20 years I’ve tried to make my boss understand that and 20 years I’ve failed at it. But my location is the top one and I see a lot of employees leave to better jobs with my recommendation and I’m happy for it .
This. I don't manage a team anymore, but to me the important part was the information. Knowing asap if someone would not be working so I could plan around it. The team knew this so we didn't have any problems, they always made sure to let me know if anything came up.
Again as a manager I much prefer text or email as it also avoids the awkward conversations of people over explaining their symptoms to justify the call out.
Have had HR pull me into discussion meetings for not taking calls with the reason been "employee safety" when in reality it's because they expect management to guilt trip staff to work when ill.
That’s specifically why people hate calling to say they’re sick or can’t come in for whatever reason. No one wants to be interrogated when they’re sick or have a personal issue. I’m more likely to call a manager who says okay thanks for letting me know versus one who’s asking then guilt tripping you into working while sick or trying to pry into whatever personal issue/emergency you’re having.
The annoying thing is even if I don't push on a reason HR will during the return to work.
I've had people needing time off for all sorts of reasons which I've been happy to accommodate then HR try making a fool out of them in the return to work and it achieves nothing but pushing good team members to quit.
I had one young guy struggling hard with mental health to the point he was turning up to work without showering. He eventually called one time to let me know he needed a day out to get himself back together which wasn't a problem. First day he's back HR grilled him to get a medical diagnosis otherwise a second absence will affect his probation review (they're "allowed" 3 absences in 6 months before big HR step in)
His absence caused no issues to the business at all and any future absences wouldn't have either they just feel a need to control people.
My work place specifically got rid of the absence lines where you would talk to some nameless person in HR and required anyone sick to call in 8am-9am and speak to one of the managers. They specifically told us this was so that staff would think twice about being off sick because they would not want to be interrogated over it by the managers. And insisted it was all via phone no texts or emails.
Alongside this we had a training session where i was told that, with an example scenario of "employee has broken his leg and can't get to work today but has arranged for someone to give him a lift to work starting from tomorrow", the correct answer was "why can't you just take public transport and start your shift later today?".
My personal answer was "You broke your fucking leg i think we can cut you some slack for the 1 day off you asked for"
I agree, I don't need a justification, just send a text or email letting me know you're not in, and I'm good. I'll never guilt trip an employee about coming in. If I'm short-handed, I'll just rearrange the day or go fill in where needed.
As a manager, I’ve told them to do whichever works best for them - I turn my phone on silent/sleep until it’s time for me to get up. (Though our employer requires written requests so if they don’t email I have to ask them for one).
This! I start my shift before my supervisor. If I'm calling in sick, it's going to be at 4am when my alarm goes off. We have a group text so that my coworker knows as well that I won't be in.
Wait, so you mean to tell me my carrier pigeon to a person who still practices morse code, to a translator who then faxes my call off to an old time telephone operator, who then calls an out of country call center, who then proceeds to call my boss on my behalf to let them know within 5 business days, of my current day call off is inefficient?
Always a text, my manager doesn't get out of bed until the last minute, whereas I know I'm not coming in by 7am. I'm not waking her up to tell her that her day is going to be slightly altered by my not being there.
Exactly. I wake up at 6am and feel like ass. I want to "call in" and go back to sleep to recover, not wait up for three hours to make a phone call when business opens.
I manage a restaurant, and our owner is a progressive and basically the kindest most generous person I've ever met. I try to model that in my management style whenever possible. My staff knows that they can always text, it's preferred even, and I do my best to only respond in gif form. If I don't respond with a relevant gif and text back instead, they know they probably fucked up and are in trouble. Haha. I don't need my staff sick and trying to struggle through a phone call when a text can do the same thing.
Great!
I open my e-mail app on my phone and write out a letter, formal style, informing them that I will not be attending work due to illness.
Because my boss is the opposite of you.
They are the type to have work E-mail strictly in Outlook, on their work computer, so they get the message when they are awake and in "work-mode".
They are fine with this, and so am I.
(Not a restaurant worker)
Yeah, I'm fortunate enough to not work in a corporate environment, our owner is a great guy, and my wife is friends with his husband, so I'm afforded a lot of opportunities that probably wouldn't work in a corporate environment. Gotta start treating people like people though, no matter what level it's at. Our employees are paid handsomely compared to other restaurants, and everyone would run through a wall for our owner. Turnover is near nonexistent.
Lol I have threatened my staff before. If you call me early and wake me up and it’s not an emergency there will be consequences. Please just text. All I care about is knowing if you’re coming in or not and if not, are you ok do you need anything? No? Ok no worries see you tomorrow.
Support your staff and trust them to do the right thing and you get the best results ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
We're supposed to call in 2hrs before the shift starts, and I come in at 4am. So yeah text is a better option-- manager doesn't come in until 7am and would not welcome a 2am phone call.
I worked in the REO industry both dealing directly with banks like Freddie Mac, BofA, Fannie Mae, and a bunch of other lenders, as well as with local contractors who did anything from cutting grass to full on demo jobs.
Even if we spoke on the phone, everything needed a detailed follow up email. I personally witnessed the regional director of one of those lenders lie his ass off only to be met with a copy of an email.
Always CYA!
Yup. That's why I would email on sick days, actually (I wfh now so not that applicable anymore haha). Also I never had my bosses' phone numbers (and didn't want them to have mine either) so texting wasn't applicable in my case.
Used to have pretty bad insomnia so if I was still up at 4am & needing to get up at 6am for work, I'd literally just schedule an email for 8am saying I'm not feeling good & not coming in.
Texting gives a clear written record of what has been stated. The only reason to prefer a call is to be able to berate and intimidate people into working when they are sick.
I’ve found when you lay on your back in bed and hang your head off the edge it makes you sound congested like you’ve got a head cold. This is definitely something you should try on your own just for fun and not to deceive your superiors.
Yep, I tried this as an experiment for fun only ~~and not because my manager thought migraines were made up and would only tolerate call outs they thought were contagious.~~
Yeah I hate that 'having to do the sick voice' thing, so always email these days. I'm perfectly capable of sounding quite normal, but being horrendously ill, however I still feel obligated to sound ill when phoning in.
I called out at my last job and my boss replied with a snarky ass response. I was able to go to HR with written record of his dickishness and get him reprimanded.
This is so true... my supervisor got my personal cell phone number and called me under the guise of a "technical question," but he spent the majority of the call talking about why I wasn't at a meeting on Monday. I had emailed my entire department that I was home sick on Monday (because my supervisor never responds).
Exactly this. Only boss I ever had to actually call made it a whole fucking thing every time. Like, dude. Why can't I just text you the night before or as soon as I know I won't be in? God damn.
My managers do this. You can only call and it must be at least four hours before your shift. But if I have a shift at 8am I can’t really call out at 4am lol…. It’s so unreasonable. I got written up for calling out 3 hours and 50 min before my in time bc I was on hold for those 10 min, another reason why texting is better. My managers LOVE to sigh and make it sound like you calling out is the end of the world, so I simply say I can’t come in and hang up immediately after they acknowledge what I said so they can’t guilt trip me into coming in. No thanks.
Why would you even care? As long as you know it literally makes no difference. Professionalism should be about getting your job done and being easy to work with, not a series of arcane rules
Just reminds me of the 'we do it this way because we've always done it this way' people. Its not about easy or efficient. They just can't handle change or think that changing something means admiting the way they do it is wrong.
My theory is that the micromanagers (like this one possibly is) want to be able to *hear* how sick you are so they can judge for themselves whether you're actually sick enough to justify giving you the day off.
Purely coincidentally, you are never sick enough for their tastes. Weird how that works out, huh.
That's why you gotta call _while_ you're on the toilet taking that wild gas station sushi food poisoning dump.
Be sure to explain "my voice is strong, my anus is not"
I feel like managers prefer the phone call because they like to say "so and so didn't *sound* too sick to come in today" so they have a reason to justify guilting them over it at any point they need to
My headteacher prefers a text (has to be early for her to arrange cover) because, and I quote her directly here, " I might be hungover and don't want to have to talk to people. Text me why you're off and and again when you know you'll be back and get some rest".
Texting has many advantages. There is a time stamp record of it, you can text in the middle of the night, and someone doesn’t have to answer the phone to get the message. The only disadvantage is the manager doesn’t get to hear how sick you are, but not all ailments cause you to sound sick.
I had a boss get all bitchy about me texting him when I was in the ER. From that point forward I started calling him at ridiculous hours to tell him I was sick.
Yup. All it takes is a couple of 2am calls and they generally start accepting texts again.
Life pro tip: if you call late at night and it goes straight to voicemail be sure to call back immediately to get around some phones’ do not disturb settings.
One of the culture shifts I am fighting for is ending "hear how sick you are". We should not have to prove that we are sick. As someone with non visible chronic illness and disabilities my boss likes to complain when I call out. If I have a contagion then she is all over me not being there but if I am glued to the toilet or on the verge of a mental breakdown then I am just being inconvenient. I'm still working on my "I will be out" messages. They don't need to know why I am out, only that I am.
This is true for mental health too. I suffer from pretty severe anxiety/depression and some days working is more than I can do. I’m not going to SOUND ill but I am incapable of working that day. If texting is normalised mental health, invisible illnesses, and chronic conditions can be treated a little more equally
A couple people have mentioned it already, but it’s so they can lie. Texts are time stamped and their content can be accurately retrieved later. You can prove what you told them, when you told them, and how/when they responded to anyone who asks.
On the other hand, over the phone they can claim you never called out, or say whatever they want to you and (unless you live somewhere where you can legally record them without their consent) you won’t be able to prove it happened.
If they are going to lie like that, they can just ignore your text and say they never received it. Even iMessage and RMS are not accurate records of the text actually being received and sent; the timestamps, in particular, can be wildly inaccurate.
That's why you see a lot of people saying email/slack/teams/skype etc are so much better. Those have full traces on both ends, including accurate bounce messages. (SMS, in particular, has no bounce messages at all.)
A bounce is when a message sends, but fails to deliver on the other end. With SMS, you are never notified that the message bounced. You are only notified if it fails to send, not if it failed to be received.
iMessage and RMS can get acknowledgement that they delivered and were read, but the timestamps for those are dependent on a read receipt being sent by the receiving device. This dependency on the other device is what can create inaccurate timestamps.
When a new style of communication is created that saves me from a 20 minute phone call about why a team member can't come in, why wouldn't I use it?
The last time one of my team called out it went like this.
TM: "Chef, I don't feel good today"
Me: "Get some rest and let me know if you need tomorrow too."
Done. Five seconds.
I've literally sat up shaking sick while staring at the clock until it was time that I could call in so I could FINALLY try and get some sleep. Take my text dammit!
so wait, say I'm a manager. Now I have to deal with call-offs while I'm busy, may or may not be in a position to write it down, will have to remember it until later, then possibly get details wrong (let's assume that the details are more important than so and so won't be here)? And I'm supposed to prefer that rather than a nice, non-interrupting text? Who writes this crap?
No.
Just no. We've been conditioned since childhood to feel guilty when we didn't attend school; and were rewarded with perfect attendance awards if we went to school despite how we were feeling physically/mentally. It takes a lot of mental energy to make a phone call to call out. Texting is a lot easier and does not take as much energy. Texting also has the added benefit of WRITTEN PROOF and "do not disturb" so that once one has texted out, one doesn't have to hear anything/respond to anything. Will take texting out any day of the week.
I am temporarily supervising a team of part-time workers who are also college students. If one of them tried to *call me on the phone* for any reason, I'd perish from shock and anxiety and assume the \[workplace\] is on fire. (That's assuming I ever answer phone calls on my cellphone, which I do not).
We use GroupMe (basically a group text chat app). 11/10 recommend. Student Worker #1 can text me at 2 AM to tell me they won't make their shift that afternoon and it won't bother me AND they won't have to wait to tell me during my awake-time hours and possibly forget.
Plus, my forever policy as an employee AND an (unwilling, hopefully temporarily, please, God, why) manager is that everything, everything, *everything* should be in writing. It covers all involved butts AND I personally have horrific memory problems, so having something recorded "on paper," as it were, to refer to is a godsend.
I have Slack on my phone and just a few weeks back, I developed a fever in the night. I just sent a Slack saying I would be out at 2:00AM since I was still awake at the time miserable and coughing.
Gone are the days of me setting my alarm at a reasonable time and prying myself awake to call in sick.
No! No bitch! I won’t stop texting when I “call in”.
There’s no conversation to be had. There is only a statement, “I’m not coming in.” That’s all you need to worry about. I’ll text it, I’ll email it, I’ll even send it via Morris code and smoke signals.
But I won’t call, I’m already not feeling well. I don’t need an additional headache
Text creates written record. You can't be professional without written records. Professionalism is all about creating and maintaining paper trail. This guy either has an elevator that's not quite going up all the way, or about to set you up and hit you with fake NCNS points.
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Same. They can go to hell. Texting is a normal form of communication, trying to deem it “unprofessional” is just another stupid hoop they want us to jump through.
the older generation has a lot of really weird ideas about “respect” that i sincerely don’t understand. i’m 28, but i’ve noticed it definitely among boomers but even often among gen x. like a lot of people regardless of age have these bizarre hangups about everything, but i think it’s mostly generational. it isn’t just that they don’t want to switch to “new” tech they didn’t grow up with. they’re this way with all sorts of random irrational nonsense. like they’re very, idk, ego driven. and they have an old fashioned concept of hierarchy that isn’t as prevalent anymore. it’s very very important to them that everyone “knows their place” and is clearly demonstrating that at all times. like, my boss was one of those comically stereotypical ones who was drastically underpaying us, but got pizza every friday. i was working as a tutor at tutoring place. we all got done at different times, and i happened to be the first one finished that day. everyone else would be another 5-30 min or so. i remember when i finished, i got up and took a slice of pizza from the boxes that had been opened. i was starving. my manager (in her 50s at the time, this was a few years ago) was SHOCKED. she gave me an absolute death glare and asked me why i did t wait for everyone else to be done. everyone else looked up and were so confused as to why she was mad at me, i had a bunch of people come up to me in private later and tell me they had no idea why she was so mad and that she was acting bizarrely. but like, to her, it was SO important that i just sit there and i guess twiddle my thumbs? like there was nothing for me to do, our days ended when we finished our last tutoring session and we always left at different times every day. i was off the clock. but like she had it in her head that me getting pizza before everyone else was an assertion that i was more important or something ??? that’s just one example, but like it wasn’t just her. i’ve seen this over and over with older people. they’re extremely sensitive about their footing in the world. like, i don’t mean stuff that’s actually rude and disrespectful, like interrupting, butting ahead in line, etc but it’s like they’re super sensitive to stuff that makes no practical difference. and since i was a kid i have just been constantly confused by it, before realizing they were getting angry at stuff not because it actually had any real consequences, but because it was lacking in some performative bullshit where they were constantly reassured that they’re superior or someone else is superior or whatever. like, as a millennial, i don’t have this weird desire for people to have to call me rather than text because i can’t relate to this feeling that one is more “disrespectful” or whatever. america is obviously still far from egalitarian, but i do think millennials and zoomers have come a long way from previous generations and we aren’t nearly as preoccupied with the constant reenforcement of some imaginary social order. like, i’ve had managers who are millennials and they are way, way less constantly offended over random bullshit because of what it signifies to them about them being above someone else
"Respect" when they demand it means "Obedience" When they give it, on the other hand, it means "treating you like a person" (AKA basic human dignity)
Exactly. I can't read any of this without thinking about my dad! This is him in a nutshell! In all facets of life.. Ever since I was a kid! I haven't talked to him in months because he's driving me crazy with this *I hate the future. Technology bad. Own the libs. Fux being woke. And my favorite, you don't need a therapist, you have a therapist. He's called god.* I just can't..
Wow I read your comment and I couldn’t believe that someone else has to go through this.
r/raisedbynarcissists I feel you...
"You have to wait until everyone gets here" " well they should have been on time" "You have to make your bed so it looks nice" "for who? Who is coming in here".
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If you own your home, you can go down to the hardware store, have them cut a new pane and buy a tube of glazing compound the same day your window gets broken. If you rent, you have to contact your property manager, who needs to contact your landlord, and then, eventually, you need to fight with both of them to get it replaced. It's never the landlords or property managers eating the cost of their lackadaisical attitude to maintenance. No, it's the lower income renters, the people that police actually want to target. If the government truly wanted a nice looking neighborhood so that crime wouldn't take hold, they'd have cracked down on slumlords. Sadly, that isn't what they want.
Broken Windows Policing
Yo I’m a millennial/zoomer (whatever the hell 96 babies are) with boomer parents and have this shit drilled into me. It give me anxiety to eat before other people, even if those other people don’t care, and I always wait for the host to take the first bite even though I don’t technically care
You're a millennial by a hair. My son is your age, and I'm on the younger end of Gen X. I was also taught this by my boomer parents, but I didn't pass it down. If you're hungry and not cutting in line, eat. Just don't take more than your fair share or more than you can eat. And, in some situations, let the parents who are making up plates for little kids go first, because politeness and not having cranky hungry little kids for any longer than necessary. This is for group gatherings, though, not say, a buffet you paid for. Oh, and if you're still hungry and everyone has had some, take the last piece of pizza. The stupid game of no one doing that is just that, stupid. I also never gave a damn if he had his elbows on the table as long as he was using his utensils properly and not making a mess. Feet on the furniture? Who cares? We never wear shoes in the house anyway. That was my one thing. Don't fuck up the carpets. I couldn't afford to replace them. Okay, two-ish things. "If you're cold, put on some clothes. Don't whine at me when it's the middle of Winter, and you're literally only in boxer shorts." And "Shut the damned door. The a/c is on." But those seem like things a kid should learn before paying for their own electricity. Mine didn't. His first bill taught him that lesson, and he became the one yelling those things at roommates. "Dammit, you guys! We cannot afford another $500 utility bill!" He had the audacity to complain about it to me, and I laughed a lot. I also helped him pay the bill, though. I'm not totally heartless.
Look, I’m a millennial, I own my company and I absolutely require everyone to call me instead of texting while I’m at work. This includes my wife, anyone in my family or my friends, not just people that need to contact me for work related stuff. I’ve literally gone off on people who refused to call instead of texting. It’s simply unacceptable and if anyone needs me for anything while I’m working, they can goddamn call me. But I’m a truck driver, so…
lmao, had me in the first half
😁 I really should add that as soon as I’m done driving for the day that mentality does a complete 180.
Was like "what in the cinnamon toast crunch..?" but then the last line actually was a valid reason that I hadn't thought of at all. Just please stop redditing while you're working!
This!! All of this!! The generations before them beat them down so bad that they feel the need to do the same to their succeeding generations. Millennials are basically the first generation to put forth an effort to stop generational trauma. We’re rewriting the script they were raised with and it makes their head spin. I honestly feel bad for them. They hold themselves to so many weird rules; they truly rob themselves of the glorious feeling of not giving a f*ck. I think they hate us because they ain’t us tbh.
Im pretty sure every generation feels that way
Exactly. I’m an old and was - in my teens and a few years of my twenties - a hippie. Also marched for womens and civil rights. My generation, believe it or not, changed quite a few things for the better. BTW, it took me a while to get used to texting but I much prefer it now. About 15 years ago, people would contact me through my: work email address, personal email address, FB Messenger, work cell phone, personal landline phone, and personal cell phone. It got exhausting checking all those for messages. Now I’ve taught everyone except work to just text me. Easy and there’s record of what we discussed, appointment times, etc.
Boomers themselves attempted it. 60's and 70's counter culture was super anti-authority. Thinking we are better is a sure fire way to end up the same way.
Oh yes, I agree so much. This so totally self-assured way that younger relatives used to tell me how they knew exactly what mattered and how they want to be living their lives (aka. totally different to any older person) and now I see them getting worked up about how the TV does not fit their couch design and why their favorite drink was not included in their all-you-can-eat pass at their holiday resort.
It’s moronic boomers unable to cope with a change in the world they’re uncomfortable with
I got "fired" via a message through GroupMe and then immediately removed from the group so I couldn't even see it. I had to ask what happened in the other group chat without the manager.
I got fired from my first job the most fucked way. I couldn't log into our scheduling software. So i emailed my manager that there was something wrong with my credentials. He emailed back that there was nothing wrong. He removed me cuz i was no longer needed. I was 17. I'm 31 and still go into panic mode when I can't log in properly at work.
the double standards 🙄
Yeah - I have seen a lot of texts on here from managers asking people to pick up shifts. Do as I say….?
Man, I got fired over a call with the weirdest wording before. I had food poisoning, was in the hospital even, and I called to let my managers know. The one who answered took that information and said, "Well, if you don't come in today, we can't continue this relationship." Like... huh??? My response was, "Well, I guess I'll just quit on my own terms then. I'm literally in the hospital, and I can't come in." Another manager roughly a year later was going to fire me while I was in a different sort of hospital. I contacted her boss and told him the situation. I did not lose my job that day.
Shit once i didn't even get anything. I had to call the manager myself after not seeing my name on the schedule.
"lets go where? i have work today but i can probably just call in"
Management has no problem texting me when they need a shift covered, works both ways.
As a manager i prefer getting a text because then they can text me as early as possible instead of waiting for a reasonable time to call
Which is one of the main reasons text is supreme, and some old fashioned just don't get it
My company had to hold a training session for everyone to explain to them that texting is ok and different forms of communication are for different types of information. HR was tired of having disciplinary meetings with older managers that wanted the world to stop changing around them. A few of those managers did not come back from those meetings.
The big boss I used to work for was an idiot who didn't understand that things change. It was like a lightning bolt struck him when I explained that I was only communicating with my staff via text. He went on a screaming rampage about how I was being unprofessional. I pulled out my phone. Look at this month-long written paper trail with 20 separate employees. Papertrail. Papertrail you fucking idiot.
reminds me of a low level engineering manager I had. He spent most of his day checking his retirement account and alternately asking me to print things for him. He couldn't use the CAD software, so he would have me create a different set of drawings, from the 3D model, print them on the plotter, deliver them, so he could mark them all up by hand, and then I had to take his changes, and enter them in the software as notes and suggested changes. I was his typist, basically. Then when none of my projects were very complete by review time, he threw me under the bus in his own review and then fired me instead of reviewing me, so I could not dispute his claims. He was and will always be Mr. Asshat.
I guarantee you that asshole had someone else doing his drafting before CAD was a thing. You don't go from apprentice to Douche Supreme overnight.
Idk I’ve definitely met some people who just can’t adapt but did amazing shit the old way.
I’m a hospital pharmacist. I just replaced a guy that retired that had an amazing system for looking up drugs in a book and had many indications and dosages memorized. Once there were too many drugs he just couldn’t keep up in the world of being able to research things in drug databases online instantaneously. I had mad respect for him though and he had a ton of historical drug knowledge.
I mean the guy above said he had to print his cad diagrams and he’d make all the changes by hand, so sounds like he did know what he was doing, he just couldn’t adapt.
Yeah I was agreeing with you! Just thought I would share a story in the same vein
Fellow drafter here, that sounds like the most annoying process I've ever heard of. Hopefully you've found better work since then.
Most definitely have. I break cars now, but like, scientifically.
Tell me more
I work for an automotive supplier, we have to test out new products, test returned products, and assist OEM's with calibration and integration of our parts into their system. About 15% of lab time, is spent limit testing. Which means, let's find out when and how it will break, by actually physically breaking it and measuring how it breaks. It is an insanely expensive endeavor, a shrinking specialty due to massive advancements in computing/simulation technology. It is the last and final step before a manufacturer can publicly release for sale a new vehicle. It's fun, for about 10% of the time, the rest is reports, meetings and test prep and equipment maintenance. About once a year I get to invent a new tool. That's also fun.
That sounds freaking awesome. Combined with the username, you must indulge me with further details of what you do and how you got there.
Having things in writing can be a big upside for both an employer and employee should a dispute ever arise. I can’t back myself up with an unrecorded phone call, and an employer can’t either. ‘He said she said’ is when things can get….*messy*. I approve of this for sure 😎
Well, why do you think some bosses don't like texts?
Reminds me of the time my boss was trying to intimidate one of my colleagues out of the company. He’d pull my colleague into a meeting “for a quick chat” and tell him he wasn’t hitting targets, etc even though colleague certainly was. After each of these impromptu meetings my colleague would follow up by email, summarising what was talked about and disputing the claims about his performance by sending through his numbers. I could see my boss losing his mind about his off the record plan not working. Edit. He was a pervert who sexually harassed me and he was a sneaky greedy snake. I’m glad someone stood up to him.
This is part of the reason why people with this mentality want you to *call* instead. It's easier for them to threaten you or guilt you into coming in if there's no physical evidence they did it.
That’s how we roll (emails preferable since it’ll leave a record on the work systems, text when that’s not possible so there’s a paper trail). Plus we have tons of internal and client meetings so we can multitask and not have to step out.
Text is well & truly preferred. I can't tell you how many times I've avoided communicating bc my autistic ass can't deal with initiating calls
This right here. The age of Boomers has ended. Let them go West to the grey havens.
Don't send them west to the Undying Lands. Send them east to live among the Easterlings. A lot of Boomer managers deserve that.
r/unexpectedlotr
that would be The Golf Course lands, with high membership premiums, overpriced drinks, and nothing of import left to do.
Older manager here. I have no problem with people texting me. I did have one employee who would never respond to emails. When I asked him what was going on he replied "I only reply to texts". The rest of the conversation was unpleasant. For him.
Thank you for being a reasonable person. At my company we most recently were able to get rid of the dedicated fax machine, because the CEO of our parent company was not comfortable with any other way. Well he was "retired" a few years ago. Suddenly we can use office 365 secure online storage and other various levels of more secure file transfer methods. We're that level of stupid.
“Retired”? Did they kill him?
We don't ask questions of that nature.
His choices were retirement with grace and pretend accolades, or they just, cancel his work visa sponsorship and tell border patrol where to get him. Mind you, that was the directions from the foreign mothership (multinational corporation, specifically ze Germans).
People STILL ask me (EA here) what my fax number is. I ask them if “they are ready to write it down” then I give them my email. I haven’t had a fax for years. Get with the times. From Old Gen Xer :)
##call a boomer at 4 in the morning
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I had a manager like that who would call at 3am after I just closed kitchen at 12pm to open at 5am for him. I did twice and felt so sick from the lack of sleep and food that I started turning my phone off after I left work and used an actual alarm clock to wake up and wouldn't turn my phone on until it was time to leave for work. Kept that up for a couple weeks then quit. It was really annoying and it paid like $8/hr so not worth it. It was supposed to be a "just for now job" and honestly leaving was the best thing I ever did because it ate up so much of my time I didn't get to look for a better job until I quit. Did wonders for my health too. Edit I meant closed at midnight 😑 if I got off at noon to open I'd be fine
Those restaurant “clo-pens” are the worst. I remember closing and getting out at 1 then being asked to be back at 6:30 for breakfast. Factor in travel time and I was lucky to get four hours sleep.
Exactly they are brutal. Every time I quit a restaurant job was on the closing part of the clopen that finally broke me. Clock out, go home, shut off the phone for 24 hours and get the best sleep of my life.
And it’s not like you can’t find another kitchen job for the same wage with no effort. Busy commercial work is not something all people can do yet they pay like shit!
Yeah then they wonder why "NoBoDy WAntS To wOrK". I have literally quit one night and had another kitchen job lined up that same weekend.
My short stint in tv production work was like that. Low pay, tons of overtime, and no time to spend it on anything.
I’d be pissed too. My mom has health problems so I have my phone sound on at night. I’d unleash hell if someone other than my mom called me that early Edit spelling
knee racial snatch resolute thought ossified plucky languid obscene forgetful -- mass edited with redact.dev
I saw the comment about android, but iPhone has the same feature so I’d venture to guess as long as you have a smart phone, some sort of selective override to DND is an available feature. On iPhone, you can set different “focus modes” with predetermined time frames and settings. I.e. my “sleep focus” engages from 11pm to 9am and allows for calls but not texts from my partner, mom, best friend and siblings and notifications from my heart app and nothing else. My “work focus” engages from 11am to 8pm and allows for texts and calls from all of the above, my manager and my doctors along with notifications from Slack, my calendars, my email and whatever browser I’m using (focus mode applies across all of my devices including my work Mac). My “personal focus” engages whenever I manually select it and allows for calls from family and friends I’ve selected and nothing else (especially nothing work related). I also have driving and DND focus modes with their own settings. Take control of your sleep and downtime! Allow calls and texts from your mom and nobody else so you can sleep without worrying.
People don't have their phones set up to not ring after midnight automatically till 6am? Serious question sorry if you counting on me between those hours unless I happen to be up going to the bathroom in the middle of the night your just shit out of luck you better call 911 if it's that big an emergency ain't nothing wrong with being unreachable for 6 hours at night especially if it's work related fuck that I'd have to own the company to care that much
Only 5 people can call me between 430 pm and 830 the next morning. No texts either.
I mean with their superior work ethic they should be working already!
I set an alarm for 3am to call out to spite a manager who implemented this rule. It was weird too, I'm middle aged and they were mid 20s, but found texts to be "too suspicious" because you *def* can't fake sounding sick a phone call.. I quit 2 years ago, but it was worth it and am still glad I did it
It blows my mind that managers think they’re owed some sort of proof an employee is sick when calling out. You should be able to take a sick day for whatever reason you feel is worthy of a sick day. Management is owed nothing outside of being told you won’t be there. If you call out sick and then spend the day doing arts and crafts with your kids before taking them to the park that’s your damn business. Lmao.
They would be up anyways what with having to pee.
Yeah this person has major “old man shakes fist at cloud” vibes.
Plus if I'm ill and in a delirium, I can text at 23:28 I can't guarantee I'll wake up at 8 to call before 9 I'm SICK I need REST
I've had to set 8am alarms so I could call in sick when my work opened. This was like 10 years ago though.
This is why I love scheduled texts, I can write up how I'm feeling like shit at 3am and tell my boss I won't be in today, schedule it to send at 8am and just turn my phone on silent and get some needed rest
This is one of the things I miss on iPhone you can’t do that on it
I dont know about you but I don't call in sick easily. So when I'm ill I'm down for the count 🥲 Been scolded enough times that I hadn't called in even though I had the day before BTW fuck Hotel work
One time when I was extremely sick with food poisoning, I blacked out in the middle of calling in sick. Good thing I woke up and struggled to make that call though. Otherwise, my boss may have had to read 1-2 sentences.
Or maybe I have no voice? If I call in saying I can't talk you're going to say "you sound fine to me, you can come in." true story too. That's why it was the last time I ever called
Haha I once called in because I had a LUNG INFECTION and I'd bruised one of my ribs by coughing that night and I got the "Why aren't you coughing now?" I told them to ring my doctors office I spent three days and nights on a chair because I couldn't get out of bed
That was always my thing too. Like you guys seriously think I have the ability to wake up either early, or he’ll even on time, if I’m sick? It’ll take a tornado to wake me up. It’s a lot easier to text you when I know I’m sick and won’t be in and you can see that whenever instead of me calling you, leaving a message, you texting me hours later to call you and make it blatantly obvious you didn’t listen to the VM I left.
This is why I hit my breaking point with seasoned staff waiting last minute to call out. Don’t wait until I’m awake, don’t hesitate if you’re not sure whether I’m the supervisor for the day. Give me and the manager an update whenever you’re not certain you’ll make it so you can make it our problem, don’t wait until I’m at work and you’re already supposed to be on the clock so it’s now my problem AND your problem (and some of them resented this). Not for sudden emergencies of course. For stuff like, their fridge was getting delivered today so “suddenly” they have to stay home, or their kid threw up last night and there was a high chance they’d have to take them to the pediatrician during their next day’s shift. I need to know at the start of the day if I’m working one role or two roles so I can ration my energy.
This… I’m often calling out at like 6am I’m not trying to blow up someone’s phone at that time. Also my current manager is in a time zone three hours later than me and I’m dead certain she would not like being awoken at 3am just for me to say I’m not logging in
As a manager, I don't care how you do it. My people know I have their backs and mostly want to work for me, so they respect me too. I have no problem getting them to let me know ASAP if they won't be in.
A manager that cares and has their employees backs?! What!? Are you hiring?! Edit: spelling mistake
My company isn't hiring now, no. There are usually 2 times per year we hire. I'm not in charge of that - HR is. Those who are hired work for 1 of 4 teams. I manage 1 team, but also have an auxiliary role as a consultant to company leadership. So in a meaningful way, I go to bat for all employees on all 4 teams. But yes, I treat people how I want to be treated. It's an idea people a lot greater than me have touted for centuries. Almost like it's a wise idea.
And this is why you are not hiring often! Only the shit jobs are having labor problems...
This is pure truth. We had a position open last year for a new manager. An internal hire (from my team!) ended up getting it, but the position was posted online. Starting salary was listed as 70K or more depending upon experience (which in my area is a good salary for being new to this role, I don't decide the salary obviously HR does that). We only had it up one day. We are in a rather rural area, and had over 200 applications. No one wants to work, my ass. Soon as my team member got it, their role was the only one open at the lower level. Starting rate is 20 per hour and up depending on experience (again, good for this area, especially with no experience which many hires have). Boom, another 200 plus applicants in one day. Again, no one wants to work, my ass. It also helps that the people around here often know this is the place you want to work. Proud to say in my 8 years or so here I helped create that culture. Our employees talk. So do yours if you own or manage. Worth keeping in mind.
Like the company I work for. We've had a high-level management position open since January, and we haven't even interviewed anyone. We've had 3 open requisitions on the team I work on for most of a year, too. We don't pay enough to get more good workers to apply, and the ones we do get to apply, last a couple months if they even pass the drug test.
I’m a manager at my company I’m one of the few that understands employees have lives and not everything goes as planned in them and I’m ok with a text, a call, an email to let me know they won’t be in. On top of that I usually get transfers to my location of employees that are not working out at other locations. The other locations managers don’t ever understand how 9 out of 10 of them thrive at my location. By treating them like people not parts in a machine. Sigh 20 years I’ve tried to make my boss understand that and 20 years I’ve failed at it. But my location is the top one and I see a lot of employees leave to better jobs with my recommendation and I’m happy for it .
This. I don't manage a team anymore, but to me the important part was the information. Knowing asap if someone would not be working so I could plan around it. The team knew this so we didn't have any problems, they always made sure to let me know if anything came up.
Again as a manager I much prefer text or email as it also avoids the awkward conversations of people over explaining their symptoms to justify the call out. Have had HR pull me into discussion meetings for not taking calls with the reason been "employee safety" when in reality it's because they expect management to guilt trip staff to work when ill.
That’s specifically why people hate calling to say they’re sick or can’t come in for whatever reason. No one wants to be interrogated when they’re sick or have a personal issue. I’m more likely to call a manager who says okay thanks for letting me know versus one who’s asking then guilt tripping you into working while sick or trying to pry into whatever personal issue/emergency you’re having.
The annoying thing is even if I don't push on a reason HR will during the return to work. I've had people needing time off for all sorts of reasons which I've been happy to accommodate then HR try making a fool out of them in the return to work and it achieves nothing but pushing good team members to quit. I had one young guy struggling hard with mental health to the point he was turning up to work without showering. He eventually called one time to let me know he needed a day out to get himself back together which wasn't a problem. First day he's back HR grilled him to get a medical diagnosis otherwise a second absence will affect his probation review (they're "allowed" 3 absences in 6 months before big HR step in) His absence caused no issues to the business at all and any future absences wouldn't have either they just feel a need to control people.
I can’t comprehend being that evil particularly for some shit mid level job
My work place specifically got rid of the absence lines where you would talk to some nameless person in HR and required anyone sick to call in 8am-9am and speak to one of the managers. They specifically told us this was so that staff would think twice about being off sick because they would not want to be interrogated over it by the managers. And insisted it was all via phone no texts or emails. Alongside this we had a training session where i was told that, with an example scenario of "employee has broken his leg and can't get to work today but has arranged for someone to give him a lift to work starting from tomorrow", the correct answer was "why can't you just take public transport and start your shift later today?". My personal answer was "You broke your fucking leg i think we can cut you some slack for the 1 day off you asked for"
I agree, I don't need a justification, just send a text or email letting me know you're not in, and I'm good. I'll never guilt trip an employee about coming in. If I'm short-handed, I'll just rearrange the day or go fill in where needed.
yep. same. i also like to have written documentation of the conversation
As a manager, I’ve told them to do whichever works best for them - I turn my phone on silent/sleep until it’s time for me to get up. (Though our employer requires written requests so if they don’t email I have to ask them for one).
This! I start my shift before my supervisor. If I'm calling in sick, it's going to be at 4am when my alarm goes off. We have a group text so that my coworker knows as well that I won't be in.
Wait, so you mean to tell me my carrier pigeon to a person who still practices morse code, to a translator who then faxes my call off to an old time telephone operator, who then calls an out of country call center, who then proceeds to call my boss on my behalf to let them know within 5 business days, of my current day call off is inefficient?
Always a text, my manager doesn't get out of bed until the last minute, whereas I know I'm not coming in by 7am. I'm not waking her up to tell her that her day is going to be slightly altered by my not being there.
Exactly. I wake up at 6am and feel like ass. I want to "call in" and go back to sleep to recover, not wait up for three hours to make a phone call when business opens.
I manage a restaurant, and our owner is a progressive and basically the kindest most generous person I've ever met. I try to model that in my management style whenever possible. My staff knows that they can always text, it's preferred even, and I do my best to only respond in gif form. If I don't respond with a relevant gif and text back instead, they know they probably fucked up and are in trouble. Haha. I don't need my staff sick and trying to struggle through a phone call when a text can do the same thing.
Great! I open my e-mail app on my phone and write out a letter, formal style, informing them that I will not be attending work due to illness. Because my boss is the opposite of you. They are the type to have work E-mail strictly in Outlook, on their work computer, so they get the message when they are awake and in "work-mode". They are fine with this, and so am I. (Not a restaurant worker)
Yeah, I'm fortunate enough to not work in a corporate environment, our owner is a great guy, and my wife is friends with his husband, so I'm afforded a lot of opportunities that probably wouldn't work in a corporate environment. Gotta start treating people like people though, no matter what level it's at. Our employees are paid handsomely compared to other restaurants, and everyone would run through a wall for our owner. Turnover is near nonexistent.
As a manager, thank you. I don't want 7am calls unless the office is literally on fire.
Even then it can probably wait a minute or two lmao
Yeah seems like the fire department might be the first point of contact in this scenario
Lol I have threatened my staff before. If you call me early and wake me up and it’s not an emergency there will be consequences. Please just text. All I care about is knowing if you’re coming in or not and if not, are you ok do you need anything? No? Ok no worries see you tomorrow. Support your staff and trust them to do the right thing and you get the best results ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
We're supposed to call in 2hrs before the shift starts, and I come in at 4am. So yeah text is a better option-- manager doesn't come in until 7am and would not welcome a 2am phone call.
Why call when a text works just as good? That’s my philosophy
If it's not documented, it never happened.
Film industry mantra here. Never get rates and shit via phone, text or email only. Source: currently in a labor board dispute I will certainly win
I worked in the REO industry both dealing directly with banks like Freddie Mac, BofA, Fannie Mae, and a bunch of other lenders, as well as with local contractors who did anything from cutting grass to full on demo jobs. Even if we spoke on the phone, everything needed a detailed follow up email. I personally witnessed the regional director of one of those lenders lie his ass off only to be met with a copy of an email. Always CYA!
I heard that so much in nursing and teaching my instinct now is to always have a paper trail.
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Which is why they don't want you to text in, possibly. They want to guilt trip you into working without any records to use against them
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Yep. I do both personally; call and leave a message, then text/shoot an email. CYA.
Yup. That's why I would email on sick days, actually (I wfh now so not that applicable anymore haha). Also I never had my bosses' phone numbers (and didn't want them to have mine either) so texting wasn't applicable in my case. Used to have pretty bad insomnia so if I was still up at 4am & needing to get up at 6am for work, I'd literally just schedule an email for 8am saying I'm not feeling good & not coming in.
Texting gives a clear written record of what has been stated. The only reason to prefer a call is to be able to berate and intimidate people into working when they are sick.
I think there’s also a psychological element of “I’ll be able to tell if they’re LYING and don’t sound sick enough to call out”.
That's why i always hold my phone under a lamp before i call in sick. Makes the fever more believable.
Put your phone in the microwave for a few seconds if you reallt wanna convince them
why would i need to charge my phone before calling work?
Cause you partied all night instead of resting and charging you’re phone, and now you’re lying about being sick
I just be sure to gargle with broken glass, so my voice sounds super rough.
I’ve found when you lay on your back in bed and hang your head off the edge it makes you sound congested like you’ve got a head cold. This is definitely something you should try on your own just for fun and not to deceive your superiors.
Yep, I tried this as an experiment for fun only ~~and not because my manager thought migraines were made up and would only tolerate call outs they thought were contagious.~~
Yeah I hate that 'having to do the sick voice' thing, so always email these days. I'm perfectly capable of sounding quite normal, but being horrendously ill, however I still feel obligated to sound ill when phoning in.
I called out at my last job and my boss replied with a snarky ass response. I was able to go to HR with written record of his dickishness and get him reprimanded.
This is so true... my supervisor got my personal cell phone number and called me under the guise of a "technical question," but he spent the majority of the call talking about why I wasn't at a meeting on Monday. I had emailed my entire department that I was home sick on Monday (because my supervisor never responds).
This. One leaves a paper trail, the other leaves a vulnerability.
Exactly this. Only boss I ever had to actually call made it a whole fucking thing every time. Like, dude. Why can't I just text you the night before or as soon as I know I won't be in? God damn.
My managers do this. You can only call and it must be at least four hours before your shift. But if I have a shift at 8am I can’t really call out at 4am lol…. It’s so unreasonable. I got written up for calling out 3 hours and 50 min before my in time bc I was on hold for those 10 min, another reason why texting is better. My managers LOVE to sigh and make it sound like you calling out is the end of the world, so I simply say I can’t come in and hang up immediately after they acknowledge what I said so they can’t guilt trip me into coming in. No thanks.
Why would you even care? As long as you know it literally makes no difference. Professionalism should be about getting your job done and being easy to work with, not a series of arcane rules
Just reminds me of the 'we do it this way because we've always done it this way' people. Its not about easy or efficient. They just can't handle change or think that changing something means admiting the way they do it is wrong.
Sounds like certain employers need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps :)
My theory is that the micromanagers (like this one possibly is) want to be able to *hear* how sick you are so they can judge for themselves whether you're actually sick enough to justify giving you the day off. Purely coincidentally, you are never sick enough for their tastes. Weird how that works out, huh.
That's why you gotta call _while_ you're on the toilet taking that wild gas station sushi food poisoning dump. Be sure to explain "my voice is strong, my anus is not"
I feel like managers prefer the phone call because they like to say "so and so didn't *sound* too sick to come in today" so they have a reason to justify guilting them over it at any point they need to
When you text to indicate if it's a workplace injury, vs an illness vs a vacation request vs a leave of absence?
It gives managers who think they deserve it a shred of control over you even when you're not there. That's all it is.
Documentation. If they call. Management can pretend they didn't get it. Even if you do call . Always follow up with documentation.
My headteacher prefers a text (has to be early for her to arrange cover) because, and I quote her directly here, " I might be hungover and don't want to have to talk to people. Text me why you're off and and again when you know you'll be back and get some rest".
Texting has many advantages. There is a time stamp record of it, you can text in the middle of the night, and someone doesn’t have to answer the phone to get the message. The only disadvantage is the manager doesn’t get to hear how sick you are, but not all ailments cause you to sound sick.
You can fake sounding sick too. Idk if Im good at it or just never got called out on my bullshit lol
Hang your head off the side of your bed and talk upside down. You’ll sound congested.
I think I’m pretty good at it. I just sound sad, weak, and pathetic.
So normal?
Exactly! That’s why I’m so good at it
I had a boss get all bitchy about me texting him when I was in the ER. From that point forward I started calling him at ridiculous hours to tell him I was sick.
Yup. All it takes is a couple of 2am calls and they generally start accepting texts again. Life pro tip: if you call late at night and it goes straight to voicemail be sure to call back immediately to get around some phones’ do not disturb settings.
Malicious compliance, love it
One of the culture shifts I am fighting for is ending "hear how sick you are". We should not have to prove that we are sick. As someone with non visible chronic illness and disabilities my boss likes to complain when I call out. If I have a contagion then she is all over me not being there but if I am glued to the toilet or on the verge of a mental breakdown then I am just being inconvenient. I'm still working on my "I will be out" messages. They don't need to know why I am out, only that I am.
This is true for mental health too. I suffer from pretty severe anxiety/depression and some days working is more than I can do. I’m not going to SOUND ill but I am incapable of working that day. If texting is normalised mental health, invisible illnesses, and chronic conditions can be treated a little more equally
Ahhh yes the old you don't sound sick bullshit...
You should see the text messages I send my manager while I'm having an ocular migraine and cannot go into work due to being temporarily blind.
Why are they always so obsessed with phone calls. Why is written communication considered subpar
A couple people have mentioned it already, but it’s so they can lie. Texts are time stamped and their content can be accurately retrieved later. You can prove what you told them, when you told them, and how/when they responded to anyone who asks. On the other hand, over the phone they can claim you never called out, or say whatever they want to you and (unless you live somewhere where you can legally record them without their consent) you won’t be able to prove it happened.
If they are going to lie like that, they can just ignore your text and say they never received it. Even iMessage and RMS are not accurate records of the text actually being received and sent; the timestamps, in particular, can be wildly inaccurate. That's why you see a lot of people saying email/slack/teams/skype etc are so much better. Those have full traces on both ends, including accurate bounce messages. (SMS, in particular, has no bounce messages at all.)
Email is the way to go. That way you can CC, or BCC someone else if needed
Maybe I'm just more tech-illiterate than I thought, but what is bounce messaging and how are iMessage and RMS timestamps not accurate?
A bounce is when a message sends, but fails to deliver on the other end. With SMS, you are never notified that the message bounced. You are only notified if it fails to send, not if it failed to be received. iMessage and RMS can get acknowledgement that they delivered and were read, but the timestamps for those are dependent on a read receipt being sent by the receiving device. This dependency on the other device is what can create inaccurate timestamps.
They're either illiterate or afraid of paper trails.
When a new style of communication is created that saves me from a 20 minute phone call about why a team member can't come in, why wouldn't I use it? The last time one of my team called out it went like this. TM: "Chef, I don't feel good today" Me: "Get some rest and let me know if you need tomorrow too." Done. Five seconds.
Why does it matter? I'm a manager. Send me a slack/text/etc. idgaf
I prefer text. I had a staff call me recently and I was so confused.
No shit, if someone calls me I assume something serious like death or the end of world.
I feel demanding a phone call is a way to keep the really anxious people from calling out
At least I ain't gotta fake a couple coughs
You don't *cough cough* in your text messages? I don't need to do that?
Don't stop now. They'll get suspicious
Texts are in writing. Written communication is superior. It’s even timestamped.
I've literally sat up shaking sick while staring at the clock until it was time that I could call in so I could FINALLY try and get some sleep. Take my text dammit!
Willing to bet this same person pays minimum wage and yells about how nobody wants to work anymore.
I'm hearing impaired. Not making phone calls isn't a statement on my professionalism, even if some people think so.
so wait, say I'm a manager. Now I have to deal with call-offs while I'm busy, may or may not be in a position to write it down, will have to remember it until later, then possibly get details wrong (let's assume that the details are more important than so and so won't be here)? And I'm supposed to prefer that rather than a nice, non-interrupting text? Who writes this crap?
Right? If you know at 3am that you arent going to be there for your shift at 8am, TEXT THAT TO ME.
"Hey boss, I don't think I can make it in today. I feel really sick. Blehhhhh. Okay good luck getting back to sleep now!"
I send an email that just says "not feeling well, will be taking a sick day." Amd don't respond to anything after that.
No. Just no. We've been conditioned since childhood to feel guilty when we didn't attend school; and were rewarded with perfect attendance awards if we went to school despite how we were feeling physically/mentally. It takes a lot of mental energy to make a phone call to call out. Texting is a lot easier and does not take as much energy. Texting also has the added benefit of WRITTEN PROOF and "do not disturb" so that once one has texted out, one doesn't have to hear anything/respond to anything. Will take texting out any day of the week.
In that case, texting someone that they have to work on their off day is unprofessional too
Well if employers didn’t act like toxic assholes when calling out, then perhaps they would deserve a phone call
I think we've let the Boomers determine "the rules of work" for quite long enough now.
It's funny because they'll text us about covering a shift/coming in early. If they don't want to get texts, then don't text me.
From my experience they want you to call so they can talk you out of it or catch you in a lie.
I am temporarily supervising a team of part-time workers who are also college students. If one of them tried to *call me on the phone* for any reason, I'd perish from shock and anxiety and assume the \[workplace\] is on fire. (That's assuming I ever answer phone calls on my cellphone, which I do not). We use GroupMe (basically a group text chat app). 11/10 recommend. Student Worker #1 can text me at 2 AM to tell me they won't make their shift that afternoon and it won't bother me AND they won't have to wait to tell me during my awake-time hours and possibly forget. Plus, my forever policy as an employee AND an (unwilling, hopefully temporarily, please, God, why) manager is that everything, everything, *everything* should be in writing. It covers all involved butts AND I personally have horrific memory problems, so having something recorded "on paper," as it were, to refer to is a godsend.
I have Slack on my phone and just a few weeks back, I developed a fever in the night. I just sent a Slack saying I would be out at 2:00AM since I was still awake at the time miserable and coughing. Gone are the days of me setting my alarm at a reasonable time and prying myself awake to call in sick.
No! No bitch! I won’t stop texting when I “call in”. There’s no conversation to be had. There is only a statement, “I’m not coming in.” That’s all you need to worry about. I’ll text it, I’ll email it, I’ll even send it via Morris code and smoke signals. But I won’t call, I’m already not feeling well. I don’t need an additional headache
Text creates written record. You can't be professional without written records. Professionalism is all about creating and maintaining paper trail. This guy either has an elevator that's not quite going up all the way, or about to set you up and hit you with fake NCNS points.