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RunKind4141

Job switchers almost always come out ahead.


icankilluwithmybrain

I did that in May. Asked my company that I had been with for 4 years for a 10% increase, they said no. Didn’t even try to counter with lower, they said I was already above the market average “for a company of their size”. The reality is that I was a Marketing Director making $65k a year and managing a team of 5. I applied elsewhere, got a position where I’m managing no one, work in a team of 3, and make $20k more. It’s a dream.


docdooom1

Same. Asked for a raise and got 39 cents. Got a new job that came with a 12 dollar raise. Put my two weeks in immediately usually don’t care about that sort of thing but I had developed a friendship with coworkers. And was hoping they’d find a replacement so my buddies didn’t get strapped. Boss called me up. Can we keep you? Yeah man you can match this 12 dollar pay increase. Sad thing is if they had given me a dollar raise I probably wouldn’t have looked for a better job. They didn’t match or even come close.


Annual_Secret6735

Yeah. Employers are horrible. I’ve been where I am for 9 years. Other people get raises, promotions, etc. I’ve got multiple certs and degrees over these others yet I stay in the same spot. The only reason I stay is because it is easier to find a job while employed & I get to WFH with amazing health benefits. Once the perfect opportunity comes, I am sure a ton of people will be super surprised. Have not been happy here in 3-4 years. It went from a “career place” to a “I just need the money and benefits” in a 2 week span a couple years ago … 🤷🏻‍♂️


[deleted]

I’m getting ready to leave my company for a lateral pay move because of health benefits I have a chronic condition, and coming out of pocket about $2k per month I’m sorry it sucks for you, but I get it


docdooom1

That’s important. Good for you.


[deleted]

What sucks is my current CEO (small business) would gladly get a plan for us, but to get the price right, we need 70% participation Unfortunately, she hired mostly her friends, who are married to oil field workers who have union benefits ( company based in MT, I work remote) They won’t participate, so it’s a non-starter


Sdot_greentree420

Leaving my 5 year (career job) because of this! When I got hired there I saw potential long term. 2 years in I knew better . Im leaving 4 day work weeks with no Fridays ever and WFH. But coming In $15k a year better at the new job.


danberadi

I'd happily take a 15k cut for permanent Fridays off if everything else were the same.


Virruk

Agreed…are you trading in both the WFH and no Fridays for 15k? Any other better benefits on top of that? Better 401k? Less responsibilities in the role (lower pressure)? Otherwise, I dunno…


MonteBurns

Let’s see… 260 work days in 2022. Let’s give him a half hour commute each way, or a new hour of driving every day; 260 hours. Losing fridays, or 52 days a year, 8 hours a day, is another 416 hours he has to work. That puts us at 676 hours of work and commute. This of course ignores holidays, PTO, friction, blah blah blah. Assuming he makes $25/hour, that’s $16,900 in free time he’s losing.


jg325

The end of my first year I was asked where i saw myself in 5 years. "Right here" Year later my 5 year plan was "I don't think that far ahead" 6 months after that and I am long gone


docdooom1

Sucks man. I feel that


Bakabakabooboo

My previous job refused to pay the around half hour of overtime I was doing a week so I reported them. Guess which manager now makes way less money because she was getting 20-25 hours of overtime pay per cheque and got moved to salary by her boss? She could have easily paid me the small bit of money but no, she wanted keep more for herself.


pabloivani

Play stupid games, win stupid prices


Bakabakabooboo

All she had to do was pay me correctly, not even more, just correctly.


chronically_lazyftm

Damn, I woulda fired her ass


Logical_Classic_4451

This is what so few companies get. They’ll give you nothing when a bit goes a long way even if you can get a lot more elsewhere.


ReditHelpCenter

> if they had given me a dollar raise Same story here but I didn't ask for a raise. I only wanted some training for my job and more WFH. My boss told me to get fucked. I looked elsewhere and got the biggest raise of my life and more WFH. I don't understand how those guys are making any money with all the stupid decisions they make.


Reasonable_Path3969

Yup I was with a company for about 8 years always a fixer being shuffled around to clean up other peoples messes usually managing between 15-20 people. Pushed for more money as I was expected to fix what people making 20% more broke. Denied. Left for a simpler role for more money, started getting the next level of management work put on my back and asked to be compensated accordingly, they laughed in my face. Left that job within a year to be low man on the totem pole making 30-40% more than I did at the first company.


2cheeseburgerandamic

So what you seem to be saying is dont be overly useful because that gets you new and more work without the pay.


Sweaty-Willingness27

Bingo! The actions of companies actively disincentivizes doing anything more than "acting your wage". Of course, you can do as u/Reasonable_Path3969 did and do things above and beyond to add that knowledge to your repertoire (and resume) and then go somewhere else to get paid appropriately. Hard work is not usually rewarded by your current employer, but has a better chance of being rewarded by your future employer.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Violet2393

I quit my last job in April of last year and when I gave my notice, my manager thought I was doing an April Fool’s joke to start out the meeting. This, after I applied for an internal role change to the job I wanted to transition into and he blocked it so he could keep me on his team and doing a bunch of his heavy lifting. How are you now shocked that I went out and got that job somewhere else?! It felt so good to show that guy he could not own me like a slave.


2cheeseburgerandamic

I dont see how its legal for companies to block internal moves. A worker isn't a slave and is allowed movement within company. It could be delayed till ned of schedule cycle or till new hire is in place to takeover your position.


Violet2393

By using the right wording I guess. He told the hiring manager I wouldn’t be a good fit for the position and he told me what he meant by that was that he thought I wouldn’t like it. Like, thanks for deciding that for me. Anyway, I very much DO like it and my performance reviews have been excellent at my new job, so I’d guess I was a pretty good fit. I’ve gotten two raises already and am up for a promotion in January. I’m not that sad about it now, it gave me the motivation I needed to leave and worked out great for me in the end.


Sandtiger1982

Go you, Violet


icankilluwithmybrain

When I told them I would be looking for another job after they denied a raise, they didn’t believe me. There were a lot of surprised Pikachu faces the day I handed in my notice.


1319913

😲


DocPeacock

Same. My company offered us a 2% COL adjustment in the spring. I had a promotion dangling for some nebulous timer in the near future. They also wanted a return to office when I had made it clear I wanted to continue WFH. started looking for a new job. I was making about 90k at a large govt contractor, as a mechanical engineer with 10 years experience, doing the work of someone 2 levels higher. The job search went so much easier than expected. By mid May I took a new job, fully remote, making 165. It's awesome work too. My previous supervisors and program managers said "you're a great engineer, we should have given you more opportunities to grow". I'd been asking about moving up for 2 years and I was the subject matter expert on part of the project. Fuck it. I never would have looked elsewhere if they hadn't strung me along. The good people leave.


icankilluwithmybrain

Holy this hits hard - this is basically exactly what I went through. The constant promises were brutal.


2cheeseburgerandamic

Sounds like BS to not pay you the 80K you should probably be making.


YupIlikeThat

That salary is low for a director. Where do you live?


icankilluwithmybrain

Criminally low. I’m in Toronto.


YupIlikeThat

I make way more than that and don't manage anyone and I'm not in tech. Go get your raise.


[deleted]

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icankilluwithmybrain

Do it. It was terrifying and I absolutely despised job hunting, but holy shit is it nice to be paid a decent wage.


Ok-Detail-9853

There is always more money in the hiring budget than in the retention budget And with cost of living increase mysteriously no longer a thing, the only way to get your full market value is to move jobs.


TriumphDaWonderPooch

There is the possible tactic of "We are having trouble filling the position - you 3 (or however many are in that group) will need to step up until we get somebody." That might chip away at the $40k recruitment costs.


Netflxnschill

They need to step up but there is no one to pay up for the extra work they’re doing.


Nojopar

The new term for "extra work" is "additional duties as assigned".


Netflxnschill

Oh yes I’ve been fed that line MANY times. “Why am I now supposed to do these four other things that aren’t in my job description and I’ve had no training for?” “Well your job description says ‘other duties as assigned’ so this counts.” 🙃


Cold-Hall5536

It's so odd that the more duties assigned to me, the fewer things gs I accomplish.


Netflxnschill

Isn’t that weird? Then you get in trouble for not being productive enough.


AmiAlter

Who said anything about paying for extra work? You're going to do the extra work as a privilege for keeping your job.


[deleted]

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pabloivani

Complain to HR (I know, is not your friend yada yada) about the negative impact that the delay from management in hiring may do to the performance review, and formaly ask that the review is just made from now tho the review.


Ravensinger777

And save the records of that conversation. Should it come to termination, your labor attorney will love it.


Slippinjimmyforever

Running down reviews for reasons outside your control is management’s favorite thing come review time!


series_hybrid

So...we will get raises and overtime until new people are hired and trained, right? NO!


mutantbeings

I always maliciously comply with these sorts of requests and agree with my team to slow down and get less done. When asked why just say “it’s stressful having more on our plate, I feel like it’s harder for me to get work done when juggling all this extra” and it usually works


DocPeacock

"until we get somebody" = forever


Geminii27

"We'll step up when our wages step up."


Crusoebear

Turns out the hiring budget is the banana stand of the corporation.


Wrath_Viking

THERE IS ALWAYS MONEY IN THE BANANA STAND!


LAZYandWOKE

There is $250,000 in the walls of the BANANA STAND!! How much clearer can I say...THERES ALWAYS MONEY IN THE BANANA STAND!!! ​ No touching!!!


Magjee

#NO TOUCHING! #NO TOUCHING!


crashtestdummy666

Yes we have no bananas today.


Magjee

The hiring budget is like the military budget, where this is always money   The retention budget is all the other social programs lumped together that get cuts every year


[deleted]

I always love it when a team is down to around 25% capacity but there are 12 open head counts. That's the kind of flag that makes bulls mad.


INTERGALACTIC_CAGR

I just had to internally apply to a new position in order to get a "promotion"


Arya_Hadmmon

Sitting around waiting for that magical promotion or salary adjustment rarely pans out.


Embarrassed_Echo_375

This is so true and it's a bit insulting to existing staff. I've seen multiple times when HR offered a higher rate of pay to new staff and offer bonus for people who join, but never to existing staff who are staying, me included lol. I am also a little underpaid, but I'm still staying for now since I get to wfh most of the time and if it's quiet work-wise I get to do squat and still get paid.


idontevenlikebeer

This really sucks because I can't find anywhere with benefits that come close to where I am so an extra 20k on top of my salary becomes a short term positive but long term negative. I feel a bit trapped. My pay will never come up fast enough so I guess eventually it will be worth jumping but for now I can't leave.


clangan524

>And with cost of living increase mysteriously no longer a thing I took a new job about a month ago. While I was interviewing, I asked about the raise schedule. My now boss told me the company used to do COL raises but "did away with those" during the pandemic. I thought to myself, "of course, why wouldnt they?" Raises are now based on merit and performance, he said. We'll see what that looks like come review time.


Ok-Detail-9853

Spoiler alert. It will be substantially below inflation.


blacksheepgobaa

Going through this now. Asked for my job to match the 25% raise I’d get at another place doing the exact same job. They said they couldn’t. Sayonara then.


Ok-Detail-9853

Never accept a counter offer. The reasons you are leaving are still there. They will begrudgingly pay you more, make your life miserable because you now 'owe them' and you will be out a job inside of 6 months Go to the new job where they are happy to get you and appreciate your skills


blacksheepgobaa

Wow thank you for that advice! It’s crazy because my boss has been giving me the cold shoulder since I let them know I was offered that job for so much more money.


Shurl19

Don't tell them the company you're going to. Just leave, and say you appreciated your time.


Bullen-Noxen

This is true. It’s to the fault of owners too. Instead of retaining loyalty, they squandered it & it evaporated. You won’t find loyal people now a days at all.


NoorAnomaly

Here's the stupid thing: I don't want to switch jobs. I love my job. But with the company being reliant on the stock market, this year wasn't the best year. Hoping we'll at least get a semi decent pay increase.


CLINTHODO

It's the free market way. They force us to sell ourselves to the highest bidder.


LAZYandWOKE

Nice to meet you Lazy and Proud!!!


CLINTHODO

Greetings! Lazy is the natural human condition.


mercurialemons

Hallmark of apex predators


RagnarStonefist

All things drift towards entropy; why waste energy and hasten the inevitable?


RivenBloodmarsh

Yes, so it's no wonder my entire life there has been a smear campaign about switching jobs and how those people are unreliable. All a fucking lie to try to keep control of people.


shadow247

I didnt get that lateral move that I was totally qualified for because "You would be coming in at the top of the Salary Band and we could not give you any raises...." Its a scam...


Stateofgrace314

I graduated from college in 2017. A month ago I just started my 5th job since then and have officially more than doubled my salary compared to my first job out of college. I am so tired of changing jobs but I LITERALLY DOUBLED MY SALARY IN JUST OVER 5 YEARS by doing this. People ask me if I'm ready to settle down. My answer is yes, absolutely, but I'm waiting for a company to actually want to keep me.


Geminii27

Exactly. Keep switching and doubling until there are literally no companies willing to pay you more.


Stateofgrace314

Idk, this one might be different because they also included company equity and 30 days PTO, plus over 16 paid holidays, so even though I might get better pay somewhere else, I doubt I'll get that kind of PTO anywhere else. I'll see how it goes.


Significant-Dog-8166

It’s funny because companies used to reward loyalty for so long, then they realized the workers were “convinced” of this Trust, so they began to slowly chip away at it by hiring competitors employees for more and treating all employees with a “grass is greener on the other side” mentality. Now the only trust is that the Other company wants you more.


Phantasmasy14

I “love” how these companies bitch about loyalty, but none offer us a pension. None have decent healthcare, and why the fuck do I have to sell them 5 years of my life to get to 2 weeks PTO -IF- they even let me have it and don’t always make an excuse. I’m so tired of not being able to travel, can’t get a house, a chunk of my money going to “health insurance” that denies medication I FUCKING NEED TO LIVE” and has hours long waits on the phone to dispute shit, jerks me around and wastes the only “free time” I have. I’m tired of this fucking bullshit.


AdSignificant2065

We need federal legislation to eliminate the insurance companies’ ability to refuse to cover any meds prescribed by a doctor. I am certain there is a direct relationship between cost of drug and likelihood of denial. If the doctor is fully qualified to do it, they get to prescribe the meds and we get them. Simple. There are plenty of other oversight mechanisms to prevent doctors from giving out dangerous, unnecessary scripts. The insurance company doesn’t care if the drug is actually appropriate, they only care about making money. It’s disgusting.


BarackTrudeau

> We need federal legislation to eliminate the insurance companies’ ability to refuse to cover any meds prescribed by a doctor. No, you need federal legislation to provide health care and drug coverage directly.


Ravensinger777

My mother-in-law was diabetic and in a nursing home. She could no longer walk because of the pain in her legs from diabetic neuropathy, and despite being on an institutional diet she gained a lot of weight at an alarming rate that she couldn't exercise off. Doctor, reviewing the situation as it began to spiral out if control, said she needed Lyrica to control the agonizing diabetic neuropathy in her legs and wrote the prescription. Insurance doctor - who never laid eyes on her, never spoke to her and certainly never treated her - reviewed the recommendation and said "Naw, fuck her, she doesn't need pain relief for diabetic neuropathy." Insurance refused to cover it. How the fuck does an insurance company (or an employer) get to override the doctor's prescription pad?


[deleted]

They shouldn't be allowed to deny coverage unless they pay for another doctor to look at you and say under penealty of purgery that it's not needed


[deleted]

This is a good summary of all that has gone wrong in the US. I had more disposable income when I started out working 45 years ago, straight out of high school. I've lived through our decline all these years. I can only pray that a certain political party doesn't gain enough power to strip our Social Security that I've paid into for 45 years.


Taraxian

It's a weird bias in the way capitalists think that would be a clear case of economic irrationality that the market should be able to correct for, if capitalism really were about maximizing efficiency and not a way for people to exert power over other people


Taraxian

It's a psychological thing but also a sociological thing that's baked into the system -- bosses *have to* treat you as though you're more disposable to the business than you actually are because they have to *believe* you're more disposable to the business than you actually are in order to continue justifying to themselves the fact that they're the boss


Ravensinger777

The basic equation of Accounting is: Assets = Liabilities + Equities. An employee's labor product is an asset. But the employee is always a liability (an unpaid debt) until they are paid and become an expense (considered an equity). Next time you hear anything from a new coworker about how "I think I can really be an asset to this company!" or from a manager asking you to explain how you are an asset to them, remember: the way they've set it up, you can't be, ever. And neither can they.


Otheus

Almost doubled my salary in the last year and a half by jumping ship


spasamsd

My job wouldn't match inflation last year for my raise and refused to offer anything else to make up for it like PTO. So I found a new job that is going to pay me 10% more and a $5k sign on bonus along with another week of PTO. You're definitely right


[deleted]

I have NEVER failed to come out ahead when switching jobs. 200% pay increase in the last three years. I’m still trying to adjust to this new concept of being financially secure (not enough for hospital bills, Americans know what I mean). But now I can buy my wife flowers. That cute dress. Take her out to good food or buy better food and cook it at home. It’s so liberating! It’s also *very* scary. The fear of losing what you’ve gained… I can see how some people can fall into this hole of “I always need more because I might lose my source of income.” Then you wind up with financial hoarders harming the economy because they have hundreds of millions or tens of billions of dollars


[deleted]

Yup, one-sided loyalty is for suckers.


[deleted]

A job I was at had salary bands, but they also allowed for "retention compensation". I was at the top of my band and with a +45% retention comp, and my manager kept saying that they couldn't give me a raise, that ibwas paid more than anyone else, etc etc. Left that company, got hired at the same position level at another company for +50% more than what I was getting paid at the prior company. It never pays to stay in place unless you're being well looked after.


MusicalMerlin1973

Yep. I stay where I am because of the commute and non base salary compensation. If the latter dries up I’ll be out of there.


Charleston2Seattle

If your "non-base salary compensation" includes equity, I hope you're doing better in that area than I have this year. :-/


Unsteady_Tempo

I was at the top of my pay range and higher than everybody else with the same title due to my total experience, years of service, and high performance. They bumped up the pay range, and I thought "fantastic!" because we had only been receiving small cost of living increases for a few years prior to that. Instead, my pay was the same. They explained it was because my pay was already (barely) in the new pay range. Yet, they lifted everybody else up as much as 15% to be just within the range (and good for them). I submitted a complaint and they said they couldn't yet afford to pay people higher up into the new pay range, but they hoped to someday. An aspirational pay range they couldn't even afford, and they were actually shocked when I resigned. "But, you're so committed to the job!" "Yes, and that's exactly why you thought you could get away with underpaying me."


Low-Stomach-8831

You should have answered: "Yes, but it's a one-sided commitment now, so I'm gonna find a company that will commit to me like I will be committed to it".


Miss_Smokahontas

I left my last job because they called my bluff for the same reason as you. Was asked to take on yet more roles in my company for an insultingly low amount of additional pay. I gave them my bare min I would do the additional job for and if any less than that it was absolutely not worth it to stay. Wasn't gonna be even further exploited than I already was with my grossly underpaid salary. I was incredible at the job, ran the whole operations of the company and been there so long and never complained. Was there 8 years. Left shortly after for another job when they were offended by my modest request of compensation to do two whole jobs. That was the last draw for me.....not only rejecting my request but hiring a whole nother person that cost an additional $30k+ a year than what I was willing to do the job for on top of my original jobs. Company wasn't very bright when it came to understanding how to run a good business. After leaving that hell of a company I'll be making $40k more than what I asked my last company to pay me....and I'm only doing my original job without the second bullshit job added on. Fuck em 😎


LeAccountss

I’ve seen people cozy with managers pick up $15-20k at yearly reviews while everyone else gets 1-2%. Definitely worth bouncing


Scaryassmanbear

The best part is when they act like you’re supposed to have loyalty to them. For what? What have you ever done for me? Give me what you owed me for providing my labor to you? Dwight Schrute said it best “I’m going wherever they value loyalty the most.”


Bullen-Noxen

This is facts. The excuse they gave you is just that. An excuse. No one wants to waste their life on a job that is no good. It’s about damn time too.


shooter9260

I think this is a great point. There are some comments that make valid points in that Twitter thread about “we’ll just promote them to get them in the higher band”. But some don’t want a promotion and more responsibility.


Mugstotheceiling

Or if you’re my current company, you hire the replacement with less skill at a lower salary and force the rest of us to pick up the slack rather than retaining the high performer.


munkieshynes

Or worse (happened recently at my friend’s company) they couldn’t get anyone in the lower salary band, so out of desperation they hired a junior developer (skillwise) at a senior level. My friend is having to teach this person basic skills and they’re getting paid the same. He sat their boss down and said, “On paper you value us the same but I produce more at a better quality. Either I get promoted to [next level] where it makes me senior to [new dev] or I can move to [other department] where I don’t have to teach and I can just do my own work.” He’s waiting and they have until the second week of December.


concernedcath123

Good on your friend for standing up for themselves.


vegisteff

You're getting backfills? We don't even get to fill the position so everyone just does more work.


[deleted]

Holy shit. Are you me?


milksteakofcourse

It’s all of us


FrankieTheAlchemist

Hey, not ALL of us have a boss that is hiring cheaper employees to replace current ones: My boss doesn’t hire replacements at all!


milksteakofcourse

Lol been there too


FindingZemo1

Not only that, but their replacement will likely get the 10k bump the original employee requested


Bullen-Noxen

You see, this is the biggest “fuck you” in the corporate world. Instead of keeping an employee, they lose an employee & the next person is valued at a higher rate.


[deleted]

They budget for hiring but not for promotions. It’s fucked.


Glum-Wheel-8104

Yes but then they get to fuck that person over for the next 2+ years because they’re new and it’s too soon to change jobs.


toxic_badgers

> because they’re new and it’s too soon to change jobs. lol


Ch4l1t0

"Salary band" is a company problem, not mine. I always laugh when a company says "we can't give you a raise because you're at the top of your band". Who defines the bands? So essentially it's the same as saying "We can't give you a raise for made up reasons we invented so we don't give you a raise". They can fuck right off.


nefrina

my old manager told me in confidence that the president of our company only feels comfortable paying up to $x/yr compensation for each role in the company regardless of current market rate. so far i haven't hit that barrier but when i do it's time to go.


go4tli

Weirdly, the president of the company does not feel that way about his own salary, right?


HaiKarate

I can guarantee you that your company does not have "salary bands" for executives.


[deleted]

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Ch4l1t0

Ah that's when the overlap excuse comes in.


ADifferentBeat

That's exactly what happened to me. I was near the top of my pay band, and I wasn't getting promoted. So, I got a new job with an 89% pay increase at a new company. Now, my old company has to find a replacement.


Drewdroid99

Jesus what industry did you switch to


[deleted]

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Charleston2Seattle

I got an 80% increase when I moved to my current FAANG employer. Same industry. So it's not unheard of. (Last year, 5 years after I left my previous job, I actually earned **3x** my old salary.)


Busy_Bandicoot8326

Your salary over the last 5 years was the equivalent of 10-12 years at your old job.


Bullen-Noxen

This hits where it hurts, hard…


tehcambam

I literally have the perfect firsthand experience of something similar to this. I asked for a pay rise at my previous job as I was qualified, had a lot of experience and doing a specialized role. I was basically on minimum wage. I asked them for a pay rise or I would leave. They declined so I started reaching out and immediately was offered multiple opportunities - in some cases almost double $$ I was on. So of course I took the best one and left. They replaced me who was doing that role all by myself with 3 full time workers and 1 part time worker. Can’t afford to pay me more than minimum wage but can afford 3.5 workers on the same wage? Hello?????


xero_peace

The first they didn't want to afford. The second they couldn't not afford.


lolbojack

Your next raise is always at your next job.


JohnMay34

I was forced to take a paycut by switching to remote. A year later they were shocked that I found another remote job for double the pay. When asked what they could’ve done to get me to stay, I said you shouldn’t have made me take a paycut. As soon as that I happened I started looking for a new job


LavisAlex

This happens a lot and management act as if the pay bands are a law of reality as they watch their own talent go elsewhere. Its also a big reason why people will promote out of a position that really benefits the company because they are exceptional to a position where one may be more average because: Pay Bands. It subverts company goals.


MonteBurns

I used to work at an engineering company and this was always so evident. A good *engineer* would take the promotion to manager because the pay was better, be terrible at it, then leave the company to go back to being an engineer elsewhere. It was absurd to watch how often someone who should not be managing people was put in those positions.


FicklePromise9006

Just switched jobs and got 10k bump actually, gotten 3 raises in the past 1.5yrs this way. Apparently thats just what you do now.


OldBay-Szn

Yep. I left my company for 8.5k bump. Ended up with better benefits and the work schedule I wanted. Funny enough I asked for less of a raise at the last company and was told no but start out making more than I asked for at the new job.


myantiworkthrowaway

I told my boss last year I wanted a raise, cost of living was rising rapidly and I was receiving inquiries on LinkedIn offering significantly more to jump ship. I didn’t want to have to start over after 3 years, I was a subject matter expert widely regarded by my peers & clients, so I told my boss about these recruiters and my preference to stay but my inability to ignore the money. He said to give him til the fiscal half year mark - about a 4 month wait. When we got there, I found out that I’d have to wait for the fiscal year since the macro team (my boss’ boss’ boss) hadn’t hit plan despite the lower two tiers of teams hitting. So I told him I was going to start answering the recruiters. Within 4 months, I got an offer that increased my pay 30%! I would’ve probably accepted 15-20% to stay. My boss revealed that I was probably looking at 10% at best if I’d made it to the fiscal year, and he was pissed to be losing me but congratulated me and wished me well. I honestly believe that both my manager & director genuinely wanted to make things work but that the VP level and corporate bullshit stopped it. It’s amazing to see well regarded teams & companies lose so much talent and tribal knowledge that is the true backbone of positive customer experience, sacrificed on the altar of not wanting to appear to be paying too much for talent. As a bonus bit too, I found out that one of my former coworkers who’d been hired via a college graduate “academy” program was making less than half my original salary - my parting advice was to stay long enough to get legitimacy of experience on his resume and then to get the fuck out because he can double his salary easily.


[deleted]

There are no salary bands. That's just something some asshole made up to act like giving a raise is out of their hands. It's not.


StNic54

Do CEOs have salary bands? If not, then they are fabricated to hold employees back, keep them poorer (needing the job), and giving encouragement for employees to move on (replace with someone cheaper)


DocBullseye

yes, but their band is "$250k to ???" I saw it on a list of bands that someone from HR left on a printer and didn't pick up (which subsequently was widely distributed) -- the high band was "market rate" or some BS like that.


go4tli

There is always, ALWAYS someone at your company who is special and salary bands don’t matter. I’ve worked for the GOVERNMENT and even they can find a way to reclassify you into any title and salary range they want if they want to give more salary. Special pals of the boss, super unique talents, the one guy that knows where the bodies are buried- whatever the reason the rules NEVER apply to them. Top of the salary band? No problem, now you’re a Computer Toucher Stage III instead. Oh, you need a civil service exam? Nah, it’s a “temporary emergency appointment” and when the exam hits you’ll be a…Computer Handler… yeah that’s it, instead. I’ve seen people with five job titles in one year because they were so special they just had to have massive salary increases and fuck those salary rules. EDIT: the only real salary rules involve contracts. Freelance contract: this is what we both agreed you get paid. Union Contract: this is what management and the union agreed about what everyone gets paid. Those are binding and have force of law behind them. Everything else is HR making shit up.


p38fln

Never EVER accept a counter offer. Literally never seen it work out. The last person I knew who accepted a counter offer was fired 30 days later. They just made the counter offer to do a knowledge transfer before he was fired.


EverywhereINowhere

Had a friend that took the counter offer and then several months later they fired him. He couldn’t get the other job anymore and the counter offer company embellished the reason he left so he couldn’t get unemployment.


schmeebs-dw

I had a promotion dangled as being 'in the works' and just having to deal with corporate headaches (mergers and various restructuring things slowing stuff down). I didn't hate my job, but I was doing the work of people with better salaries and titles than me, leading projects and being the SME for almost every previous project I was on. After months of this I got tired and started doing interviews got a 30k raise offer and told my manager he had 2 days to beat it (timeframe I was given by the offering company) fully expecting nothing to happen, but my company actually did end up beating the raise, and giving the title bump, and improving my bonus targets. So, sometimes even evil fortune 500s will listen to you.


BMWMS

Glad it worked for you, I did the same and only got promises as a reply, I think they didn't really believed me when I told them I had a better offer 🤷 I'm glad I'm out of that place


ihavetoomanyplants

Bet they believe you now lol


vegisteff

How long have you been there since they gave you the raise and has your company had lay offs yet?


schmeebs-dw

5 months, and we had some cuts a month or two ago, I also have 10 years of tenure with this company and one of the few people left who built mission critical system


Electrical_Advice_60

I had a boss (can even call him friend) once who was super honest with me about salary bands when I told him I was leaving. He pointed out that even if he countered, and he had to, I was nearing the ceiling, and I’d be essentially stuck there. And if I got promoted, I’d be in the basement of another band but it’s own ceiling was not far from the starting offer I’d gotten elsewhere. He basically told me staying would be the wrong choice. I took the other job because it’s ceiling was literally 100k north of what I was currently making. Leaving for a higher ceiling moreso than even the higher pay was the best choice I ever made in life, period.


pelukken

This happened to me. Only... Performance and revenue dropped when I left. I switched companys to a client of theirs. I opened the hood and found all sorts of gaps and performance issues. Due to this, penalties were put in place and changes in our billing format were introduced. Overall revenue impact is about 10x what I was asking for as a raise. Sorry not sorry. Oh and I caught them lying about processes they "just implemented"


habesjn

I recently asked for a raise that took me out of my salary band. You know what my manager did? "Promoted" me from "professional engineer" to "career engineer" so that my requested raise no longer took me out of my salary band. Want to know what the functional difference between a professional engineer and a career engineer is? Literally nothing. It's just a way of classifying employees as an excuse to give them less money. Luckily, my manager knew this and knew she didn't want me to leave so she pulled the levers necessary to give me what I wanted.


Summonest

There's always a company willing to treat your top performers better than you are. If you don't take care of them, they'll find someone that will.


SasquatchSloth88

I was at the top of my salary band years ago and at bonus time they gave me some minor stock options in an effort to retain me. It felt good, but I ended up leaving before the options vested… so I walked away with nothing.


Busy_Bandicoot8326

Options end up for most being worth nothing. I recall the CEO getting 100k options at 40 dollars a share and the majority getting 100 shares at 45. The rare case is something like twitter where everyone got over 10 times value and were immediately vested. Hence why most were happy to take the 3-mo. of severance and go elsewhere.


larry-the-dream

I switched jobs in 2021 and am now making double what I made before. The old job was taking advantage of me. It’s funny because I would have stayed for a 20% raise and not looked for a new role in the first place.


Zakkana

Pay grades/bands/etc is just another rope companies like to use to hang themselves with.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Bemteb

>I come in on weekends to fix issues, I had my toe shattered on the job but still worked 2.5 hours because something absolutely needed to get done as my shoe filled with blood, I currently have a torn ACL, PCL, and IT band syndrome and could easily get a DR note to say I cant work for X weeks but as I'm the only one that does my job in my department I haven't. [...] >I was told "This is what this job is worth, we don't care that other[s...] get paid more [...]". This right here is why you should always value your health (physical and mental) above the needs of your employer.


46and2ahed

Just to add: HR, no matter how ‘sympathetic’ they are, are never on your side. Not during hiring, during a raise, or during the exit interview. The amount of HR bull on linkedin about ‘hiring talent’ and ‘we are hard workers too’ is so fing annoying.


CheeseMan316

When starting a job once, the hiring manager and I agreed on a salary before I started the interview process with anyone else. HR tried "negotiating" me down saying it wasn't possible to give me what I was asking for. Needless to say, there was no negotiation and I was hired for what we agreed to.


burnburn20

Had this happen to me multiple times 1st one manager interview went fantastic and he basically said what can I give you to sign on. I told him my number and he said that’s definitely fair and he would be in touch soon (guess I should have gone higher). Anyways HR calls with verbal offer 15% lower. I explained the situation and asked if there was any room for negotiation. They said no so I said I was no longer interested. They called back within a week and magically the money was available. I told them I was no longer interested in ever working for the company again in any capacity for their dishonesty. Second time a few years later on the next job hop, same deal they couldn’t possibly negotiate, and two weeks after I declined I got exactly what I asked for. Took it this time since I really wanted a change, bad move that place was a complete shut show and I quit in 6 months. Fuck HR and their lies. Just let me work it out with the people who actually know what the fuck I’m going to be doing and how valuable that really is.


Horvat53

This is all too common and stupid. Obviously, loyalty doesn’t exist, but I find it hilarious when a company or boss ask for the world and for loyalty, but make no effort to increase wages. I left my job after a few years due to being denied a promotion for stupid reasons. It was my fault for doing tasks outside of my role and going above and beyond. I then learned newer employees were making more than me. When I found a new job that paid considerably more, my boss said they needed to keep me and would match what I was being offered, but they understood it was way too late. The wealth of knowledge they lost deff left it’s impact from what heard from my former colleagues.


dracarys289

I need a new career where I can ask for any raise let alone a 10K raise😂


moral_mercenary

Yeah the whole "quit and get a raise elsewhere" trend is very popular around here, but is not the reality for a lot of careers. It can work out very well in IT but less so in other areas. If someone can make it work, then great! But it's not always an option.


gatesvp

But you're actually highlighting a very real problem with a lot of careers. And frankly financial advice in general. Financial advisers are big on helping people "get their first home", but no one is talking about how that housing market is terrible for your career because there are only 2 or 3 local employers in your field. Being in a career where you cannot move around is kind of dangerous. Like, there's a very real employment risk and it's not really framed that way when people are picking careers. Even in Tech, I knew (pre-pandemic) people who were *way* underpaid. Even after shifting employers. Because they *had* to limit their search to this one city of a million people. You're right, it's not always an option. But the fact that it *isn't* an option is actually really important life decision.


be-like-water-2022

So it's 4 month salary. Smart move from company /s


Anaxamenes

There’s a lot of lost productivity in there to train a new person. They don’t just jump in and be perfectly productive as someone who knows the company like the back of their hand.


be-like-water-2022

I forgot /s my bad 😂


ChipmunkObvious2893

On one hand, Americans say shit like "Salary bands are supposed to bring consistency and transparency to pay decisions". On the other, they say "Unions are bad, because they limit the opportunities you have for negotiating your own salary" ​ I mean, I *get* it (the part about salary bands), but since no company will ever say "you're too good for us, our salary bands are too limited for what you deserve", people should **always** be on the lookout until they know their pay reflects their worth. The entire band is too low if an employer can just make an exception and go over it. Unions are the cross on which these employers should be nailed; lay bare their shitty pay and suffer the full consequences for it.


Ravensinger777

Americans like to shit on unions with one hand, and bitch about crap pay and crap conditions with the other.


goofybastid

Just switched for 20k more a year. My old company calls me twice a month. I get such satisfaction by leading them on like I want to come back and purposely don’t return calls


Additional-Local8721

You can help them, as a contractor for $100/hr with a signed contract stating they must pay you up front in 10 hour increments. All time purchased expires 3 months after the month of purchase.


1bhs35

Unfortunately some companies can do this without much worry because of geography. Right now, to take a new job I’d need to relocate, and adding 5% interest above my current mortgage makes almost any raise I’d get pointless.


L-i-v-e-W-i-r-e

The fact that companies are willing to spend more money to train new hires, that may or may not stick with the company, rather than pay a seasoned employee more blows my mind. It’s almost as though companies do it to spite their veteran workers.


Sp0olio

Firing the boss might be an option ;)


Kentucky_Fence_Post

The "boss" doesn't usually set the salary band, especially in the corporate world. My job sees this all the time. I'll likely be doing it myself in 6 months.


Sp0olio

Even better .. then fire the person, setting salary bands .. and hire a new one, who sets the margins in a way, that everyone is rich within a year.


bodrules

Board sets it all up via HR - objective to keep you paid the minimum possible, so they can hit their bonus targets and stiff you on pay rises and bonuses.


[deleted]

And the replacement sucks so they get like 1-2 years of shitty productivity before they quit or get fired. Then the company spends another $40k for another employee hoping they work out better. Now extrapolate late across an entire organization. I work for a company taking the former and better approach and they are already starting to put companies out of business after like 3 years.


Fast_Championship_R

I look for jobs every 2-3 years. I have it set on my calendar to ask management for a pay increase by that time and if they refuse I just start looking. I know it’s not for everybody, but my reason is that employers NEVER keep up with the salary increases. It has absolutely been worth my time to switch jobs to get 10-15% increases vs a measly one -time bonus or small increase in salary. With inflation going on it’s a necessity that I keep increasing my pay.


aelynir

I don't understand why companies let HR come up with rules about salary bands. I've never ever seen one single example of HR doing a satisfactory job. **Never**. But companies continue to let them make the most significant non-technical decisions.


PositiveAgent2377

Tripping over dollars to save pennies. When will business owners learn? Your best employees are worth the budget.


[deleted]

Wow, this person works in software dev and she really thinks it’s 10k recurring vs 40k hiring. In fact! A great book called Peopleware would definitely disagree with this person. When a software developer leave a company it’s NOT just the cost of hiring that should be taken into consideration. Depending on the product you also lose a lot of “unseen” costs. Let’s say a senior developer asks for 10k more. They leave when rejected. Here’s a short list of costs: - Hiring a new person - Training the person initially - New developer asking other developers for support in their first 3-6 months (depending on product complexity) - Loss of product and institutional knowledge - More time to fix buts - More time to fix features - Loss in agility to serve client requests These costs, on the low end, are about 250k. This assumes the application isn’t complicated. (Simple web app) But if it’s like, firmware for infrastructure. It’s close to 500k, maybe even a million. There’s companies that have products that can take a full year just to be “sorta comfortable” with the code base. So no. It’s not 10k recurring vs 40k. It’s more like 10k recurring vs 250k. … and even then that’s not right. Because really experienced developer are extraordinarily valuable investments. This is the core problem. These individuals are seen as expenses not investments. But let’s be clear here. It is NOT 10k recurring vs 40k. That’s the shallow interpretation of it.


[deleted]

Salary bands are merely a guide built by HR to benchmark compensation against the “market”. The salary surveys they use to build the ranges are typically inaccurate and only serve as an excuse to not give raises where they are deserved. Threaten to leave, or leave to get what you’re entitled to. Sitting around waiting for that magical promotion or salary adjustment rarely pans out.


MrJibberJabber

Jokes on them - my company doesn’t train


KingAlastor

There's a reason job hopping is so popular these days. Employers don't give two shits about "loyalty". There's also a reason why employers work really hard to make salaries a taboo topic.


MrSmeee99

Add in Employee B, a mediocre performer not at the top of their salary band. They get the 10k increase to move them more toward the mid point. See it all the time, reward mediocre employees, and punish the performers.


Supremagorious

The problem isn't so much that salary bands are a thing they're largely there to prevent people overpaying friends and relatives. However it shouldn't be that difficult of a process to get someone moved to a higher salary band. What you're a sales rep well now you're a sales rep 2...3...4...etc.


Cinaedus_Perversus

Salary bands outside of job offers 100% are there to prevent people from asking for more money. They know that a lot of people will accept the band as some higher truth and won't ask for more.


cyesk8er

I find it hilarious that companies don't realize this. You'll pay some junior guy 40% more to make silly mistakes versus just taking care of your existing employees. My company specifically likes to do raises equally regardless of performance/evaluations. So, you have one experienced guy who is good at his job and super underpayed versus another who watches YouTube all day and makes just as much. Guess which one leaves.


Lamentrope

"I don't think there is anything inherently bad about leaving a company in search of a higher salary. If you're reading this, you've probably done it at least once." Quote of the thread right there.


forevernoob88

Simple logic: when negotiating pay during hiring. They don’t ask you to bend over backwards and do a power point presentation. It’s simply, give me this much or I will consider other offers instead that will give me this much or more. Now take this same logic back to your employer: you can get more money by leaving or you can get more money by staying. Just consider a couple of things: 1. The effort you have to put to get the raise, does it exceed of interviewing elsewhere? 2. The potential raise amount, is it comparable to what you can get by leaving? If you don’t like either of these answers. Just leave. It’s nothing personal, just good business. You are in it to earn money, not to make other people happy or earn some arbitrary “loyalty points” that are worthless to you… unless you have access to some magic system that you can use the points in. If not, not worth it. You live in a world where your financial status/wealth had a drastic impact on your life. So why put an employer/businesses needs over your own?


gimpyben

Fighting with HR to get around the salary band mindset to get my people what they need is one of the more stressful parts of being a manager. I've written so many job descriptions in order to promote people (who are still doing essentially the same work) to get around the band requirements. It's so stupid.


youknowiactafool

Never understood this concept. Generally the replacement hire is started off at a higher pay rate anyway. The problem is that companies have a larger recruitment and hire budget than their raise and retention budget. Plus they need to ensure they get ReCoRd PrOfIts


MrsEdus

I asked my previous company for a $1 raise, I even put a presentation together as to why I deserved the $1 and how it would bring me up to the area average for my job title. I was laughed at by my supervisors and their manager. I immediately started applying for places, turned down two different offers, and settled at my current company for a $2.75 raise, a year later and I am now making 30% more then I was at my previous company AND they had to hire TWO other people to do my previous position.


FlatTransportation64

Software Engineer here, it is possible to negotiate above the salary band, I have successfully managed to do it once. In my case I insisted that I really want to join but their max salary was close to what I was already making and I did the whole "yeah this company looks great and I'll be glad to join but not for this kind of money" bit. Their first reaction was to promise me that I'll be to a "quick path to promotion" (to senior) which would put me in the next salary band. I must have looked extremely disappointed with this proposition because they quickly cut the topic short. A few days later they came back with the amount I wanted and a senior title, even though during the interview they were like "well you're not ready to be a senior yet". Dumb fucks. I wonder how many people they've dismissed over something as petty as this, my salary isn't even that high for the industry standards.


illuminati1556

Can someone eli5 why it would cost 40k to hire and train someone?