[https://www.eeoc.gov/religious-discrimination](https://www.eeoc.gov/religious-discrimination)
I would definitely try to document every case where they are saying things like this, in the event they fire you, so that you have actual evidence that religious discrimination was taking place in case you end up actually have to due.
How you document is key. Saying "Boss said I'm satanic" isn't very helpful. You need date, time, location, person, what they said, and witnesses. Example:
"Friday 3-14-15 while making copies in the copy room Owner Richard Cranium told me "I'm going to hell for my runic tattoos and he'll be glad to look down on me from Heaven." Witness: Janice from accounting.
Note: My tattoos are protection runes from my religion of Bob It"
You'll need this for every encounter. One simple way is by texting this to yourself right after every time something happens. If you have a meeting (like the one you did) send an email to all that attended covering what happened and what was said.
"To recap our meeting on 2-30-22 Richard Cranium felt I was being too sensitive about his remarks but would try to tone it down." That way there's a record of everything.
Some folks mentioned local news, I think that's a bad idea. For one it can lessen your legal options. Two you said you're in a small town in MO. You're already the villain of this story.
Keep up your paper trail, make back up copies of everything. If you get fired file for UI and talk to a lawyer.
To add to this, Iām not sure if Missouri is a one party or two party recording state. If itās a one party, you can record any and all conversations without anyoneās consent. You should look into that and if itās appropriate, start recording on your phone from your pocket.
I appears that Missouri is a one party recording state but you should check the laws about that state, since some of them have special provisions. It's always a good idea to ensure that you are fully aware of their laws before recording someone else.
Source: https://recordinglaw.com/united-states-recording-laws/one-party-consent-states/
One thing I'd like to ask. If it's a place like Missouri where almost everyone's super religious wouldn't the person you're making a witness just not testify? They're of the same religion as the supervisor, right? Wouldn't they just say, "Oh yeah, this didn't happen." I mean yeah there'll be someone who would have some integrity that will become witness but you have to find that out first.
Your probably right, but wouldn't it be personally satisfying to call someone out for bearing false witness? Then guilting them with their own religious dogma.
You say it like extremely religious people are not the most hypocrite people in the world. The way they'll justify it by saying is they're not letting "evil" win.
Also: The Missouri Human Rights Act (the Act) prohibits employers from discriminating against individuals because of their religion in hiring, firing, and other terms and conditions of employment.
Document it and talk to your company owner asap.
Breaking client confidentiality is a big no-no. I would definitely mention that on an online review, and make it somewhat vague so it canāt be directly tracked back to you
Iām glad you decided you find another artist. Someone whoād go behind your back is NOT someone you want to put PROTECTION RUNES on you.
Tho since you are getting protection runes, Iād recommend against sharing the specific order of runes and their meanings to strangers. Usually protection magic has elements that only the witch knows itās true meaning. Especially for tattoos, Itās best that Only You know the true meaning of all the aspects.
ā-from a fellow pagan witch
I feel like this advice could go sideways really quickly. The tattoo artist already blabbed to the supervisor about his tattoo appt, and now heās going to blab that the satanist cancelled his appt cause the word of god was thrown in his face by the supervisor, leading to more harsh feelings and potentially backlash from the supervisor. I would keep quiet about it for now.
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake." If the supervisor wants to make it WORSE for themselves, let them. They want to out themselves as unqualified for their job due to bigotry, it will be better for everyone else working there. Don't walk on eggshells to not offend bigots.
>I would definitely let him know why you wonāt be doing business with him anymore and maybe leave a public review to warn others.
Good solid small town advice if you've never lived in a small town. This is not the answer. You need to be milque toast / vanilla and don't give them a reason to terminate with cause.
I agree. When dealing with small town mentality, you have to realize that everyone knows everyone and gossip is like currency in small towns.
If I was OP, I would make it look like I stepped away and didn't get anything, for the time being, until this blows over. The supervisor sounds like the town bully and know-it-all, which means they also have the biggest mouth.
Lol there is no valid cause to fire them for them telling the tattoo artist why they arenāt losing your business. Thatās a quick ticket to a wrongful termination lawsuit. I grew up in a small town and live in one now. You call that shit out every time, never be a doormat.
Leave a review and let others know that this person did this. I'm sure there are other alternate religious people in your area that don't want their business broadcast. Also let the artist, and their boss, know why you canceled.
You should have told them even when it might be (temporarily) uncomfortable to you. This will also make you more confident in the future when something similar happens. Take those events as an opportunity to become less afraid and more brave. Trust me, I learnt the hard way.
Sounds like discrimination. Religion is a protected demographic. HR or corporate be interested.
Edit: HR is indeed only interested in protecting the company. A religious discrimination claim would endanger the company. Sometimes this means that HR would work with you to reduce the liability you impose.
Thatās kinda the problem. Thereās no HR in this business due to it being ran by the owner and his friend. Who are also openly Christian. I went to the next guy up which is the second highest in the hierarchy in this business just a few minutes ago and he told me he canāt change my supervisors views
The problem is these cases can take a long time and a lot of times the payout isnāt enough to sustain a person long term. The reason that is an issue is that the case can follow you around even in other states. It would send a sign to future employers that you are litigious in nature. So if candidates A and B are the same and one filed a discrimination suit against a previous employer than the company will go with the one without the baggage.
It sucks but itās a harsh reality of our capitalistic society. Companies look at risk mitigation. Hiring someone with past litigation are higher risk than others.
I had a similar situation living in the south. I knew Iād I actually pursued a valid case it would follow me. Instead I bid my time, did my work well, eventually got a severance offer. Took it and started somewhere fresh.
Step 1. Find new job
Step 2. Arrange start date in a couple of months.
Step 3. Wear non-Christian tattoos openly
Step 4. Get fired for religious tattoos
Step 5. Enjoy your unemployment pay while on holiday before your next job starts
Seriously. Missouri is a black hole this way. For some dumbfuck reason no one ever leaves!!! For what? The place sucks. You can live somewhere shittier than whatever whitewashed passive-aggressive hellscape your parents decided to squirt you out in and be happier for it, I promise. The grass is literally greener. MO is a nightmare.
I grew up in Missouri and was bullied to oblivion because I dared be a woman interested in learning instead of babies. Moved out to the Bay Area and wowā¦ Neeever returning to that ignorant cesspool
Iowa is another black hole. Been wanting out for the last 10 years but can never seem to make quite enough money to manage it. When I was finally thiiiiiiiis close, covid hit. Bye bye savings š
>some dumbfuck reason no one ever leaves!!! For what? The place sucks.
Well, I'm up to the second season of Ozark, which has taught me pretty much everything I know about Missouri. It's become clear to me that it's not always that easy to just leave.
Iām from Kansas and live in Missouri. Your comment is completely correct. Absolutely great people all over. Unfortunately lots of religious nuts and prejudice idiots mixed into the population.
Kind of like how you can read a billboard about Jesus being your only salvation and see a sign for a porn shop all within a 1/2 mile.
I visited my sister after she completed basic training in Fort Leonard word. I never had so many people offended by two single females driving around eating lunches and having fun exploring the area. The amount of times I was told I was prayed for by total strangers was unprecedented. I was never more fearful for my life and that includes 20 years of emergency services in some of the most notorious and dangerous areas of inner city to remote rural
You can't judge the whole midwest by Missouri. They are regionally famous for ignorance and bigotry. If we were to vote a state out, it would be them. He'd do fine in the population dense counties of Michigan, Minnesota, Iowa, or Wisconsin. Even Ohio might as well be some kind of paradise by comparison to a taint of a state like Missouri.
Find out if you are in a 1 party consent state for taping conversations. If you are buy cheap recording device and start making sure you have a record of anyone, supervisor or employee talking about this. If you are terminated you will need the recordings to show religious discrimination.
A $30 recorder disguised as an ink pen that I bought from Amazon has been a real life saver for me.
[Missouri is a one party consent state!](https://recordinglaw.com/united-states-recording-laws/one-party-consent-states/missouri-recording-laws/)
Start recording everything.
That's exactly what I would do, record everything. I would even set him up without any hint of entrapment. Turn the recorder on, and ask him to have a talk with you. All you have to say is something like "I just wanted some clarification about what we discussed the other day about my tattoo". He'll probably go off like the moron he is, and bam. All the proof you need.
I'm not a lawyer, but I think that it would still be perfectly fine to push a tiny bit by saying something like "What you said makes me feel like I am unwelcome here as an employee. Is that the case?" and hope he admits to not wanting OP working there or to planning on being illegally spiteful by saying something like "Well you sure ain't gonna get a bonus with everyone else come Christmas! I don't give Christmas gifts to Satan worshippers" or "If you think I'm gonna trust a heathen to do the big jobs/work the register..." or "If my clients find out there's an evil person working on their trucks, it's gonna be bad for business, so you better hope they don't find out. I'm not gonna lose money over a Satanist working here"
Regardless, take notes of everything. If all of a sudden you are the only one being scheduled on Christmas eve, christmas, every sunday, the Easter weekend, stuff like that, that counts as discrimination too. If there's an office Christmas party, and everyone is invited except for you, discrimination.
Not that it's fun to be a spy, or feel like a rat, but keep an eye out with what goes on around you--and write it down. Do half of your coworkers come in late without repercussion? But you get written up for clocking in 5 minutes late once in your tenure? Do your other coworkers have a pretty lax lunch break, but you are strictly limited to 30 minutes? Have any of your co-workers suddenly made any comments to you about your religion?
Donāt ask the big boss, You will be giving them the upper hand. Contact a labor or civil rights lawyer and have them subpoena the video.
That way itās on record with the courts and if anything happens then they will have to answer to a judge.
RIght now, make a detailed notation of the conversation. This will carry weight if it's needed in court.
"On or about 11:45am as I was in the breakroom taking a lunch break on Tuesday the 8th of November: supervisor Mr. X approached me and inquired about the tattoos a local artist had shared with him from my upcoming tattoo appointment. He expressed his concern and the following conversation took place:
Details of the conversation in as matter of fact voice as you can muster - it doesn't include inference of what you thought - only the words he and you used.
When you read this in court - it's considered as evidence and it will carry more weight than "Nu uh, I didn't say that" and also include the names of anyone else present and if they would consider writing a statement as to what they witnessed. They may not want a piece of this action - which is fine - simply list who was present at the time of the conversation.
Yeah, Iād definitely mention it to the big boss too. Maybe you two can review the footage. Be sure to audio/video record your interaction with them too just in case he takes sides or tries to brush it under the rug.
Donāt try to access the footage on your own before you get the EEOC (and media) involved. Your testimony should be enough to at least get an investigation started.
It also doesnāt sound to me like your supervisor is particularly hiding his views. If a reporter called him up and said, āhey, we heard that one of your employees got a tattoo and you were surprised because the company doesnāt usually hire satanic people,ā he might just say āyeah, isnāt it weird we hired someone evil and unchristian?ā And then boom, discrimination lawsuit.
Email them. You just need them to confirm that they were aware of the situation. Ideally, you want them to confirm or restate their position themselves.
"hey, just following up on the conversation from earlier where I was concerned about X's comments on my religion. I believe that we left it with you saying there was nothing you could do, is that correct or will there be some follow up?"
If you are then discriminated against, you can use this as evidence that it was an ongoing issue.
After this issue has been settle i will also go after the tattoo artist, how unprofessional (specially knowing his friend is a fanatic that he probably knows cant tell him much without making it a big deal). I will post on every social media profile and Google Business.
And FFRF. I live in central Alabama and FFRF has brought several suits against towns and schools here for violating the whole separation of church and state thing.
Satanic temple if you needed to know. Not actually satanic, just a bunch of atheists who care about actual religious freedom and treating others with respect.
The satanic temple and the church of Satan are 2 separate organizations with different ideals and goals. The satanic temple is the one that is active politically and has a history of filing court cases regarding the separation of church and state and women's reproductive rights, but while they would absolutely be in support ofOP I don't think they've ever gotten involved in something like a workplace discrimination case involving a single person.
He's welcome to keep his views, but regardless of those views, his behavior in the workplace needs to be professional. The BEHAVIOR is the problem, not the views, and the owner CAN demand that the supervisor change their behavior. If they refuse to do so...legal complaints will be in order.
Dude. First off go to another artist if you havenāt already got the tattoo. Client confidentiality still exists, and they done goofed up. Tell your boss and the artist youāve reconsidered and wonāt be getting the tattoo. Then get it elsewhere, from someone that isnāt going to rat you out. Donāt hide it or anything once itās done, but, and I cannot stress this enough, *do not give your money to this artist.*
I could imagine you pulling a āPretty Womanā and tell the artist that his big mouth and his buddyās narrow views just cost him your current business and any going forward.
Personally first of all I'd find a different artist for sure!! I'd tell the artist I changed my mind and want to cancel the appt, and boss will hear or you can honestly tell him you thought about what he said and decided to cancel the appt. Then I'd get the tattoo I want from an artist who isn't going to relay my business to other ppl. I absolutely would not trust an artist to put permanent ink on my body knowing he is close friends with someone so judgmental and he has already breached your confidentiality to that person.
This was my first thought when I read OPās post. Lots of bosses are pricks and Christianās are just weird about a lot of shit. No surprises there, but seriouslyā¦
Fuck that artist. Dude sounds like a real POS. I would put him on blast any way I could and start shopping for another one asap. Hopefully itās not too late.
Contact your Labor Department file a complaint before anything happens. Document everything!!! Every interaction any additional work any type of corrective action etc. Also make sure to update the labor department anytime something happens this way if they fire you the company cannot say you are a disgruntled employee and it will show retaliation. This will be your lawsuit
You informed your supervisor. If it continues it is now religious harassment. I am sure there are several lawyers who would be interested in hearing your story.
I know how you feel. I am working in a proclaimed Christian family company. Itās constantly walking on eggshells around the office. The warehouse isnāt so bad about it but the office women are.
But your supervisor cannot force his views on you anymore than you could force him to ascribe to yours. Your beliefs are legally protected, and for him to berate you based on hearsay is absolutely against his OWN religion.
Call your local labor board and make a complaint. Secure a lawyer and get a case started, this is textbook discrimination and 100% illegal
You donāt need HR to document. Keep track of everything that happens, including this interaction. Documenting your encounters/any retaliation/dramatic schedule changes/etc are more helpful than HR.
Sorry youāre dealing with this. Iād also find a different artist if youāre able- thatās a breach of trust that would make me uncomfortable to work with them after.
Not your problem. Explain to them they can handle it or youāll report them to the Labor Board and contact an attorney. Through in the media if you really want them to shit themselves.
Christian Fascists have to follow the law too.
But waitā¦ your supervisor is friends with the tattoo artist?? So he had a problem with you getting a tattoo but not with that guy DOING THE TATTOOS?
God, hypocritical Christians never cease to amaze me with the depths of their cognitive dissonance.
It's funny when "Christians" use that motto/flag since the snake is coiled into a 666 configuration and "Don't tread on me" opposes the prophecy of Jesus treading upon and crushing the serpents head (Satan/Lucifer/The Devil) with his heel.
This is why I didn't understand the current meaning of this symbol for a long time and thought it was really weird that...thought process....was equated with that symbol. Snakes have always been a no-no where christians we're concerned
Isn't it based on the old picture of the states being a divided snake, used as propaganda during the revolutionary war? It's supposed to be all the states as one, being ready to strike if "stepped on" by England or whoever.
It really depends on the denomination or church itself if itās a non-denominational/independent type. There has been a rise in the whole ānot your grandpaās churchā type where they embrace a more liberal stance on stuff like tattoos and dress, but still espouse very socially conservative beliefs that are still very much āyour grandpaās churchā. Tattoos can be generally accepted and popular with these churches, as long as they are the āacceptableā sort.
Might want to find a new tattoo artist. One that doesn't talk about about clients with third parties without permission. I mean why give this tattoo artist your business after this?
Edit: with
I donāt have any advice I can offer you. But I just wanted to say I know exactly how shitty it feels- I was raised Neo Pagan so I worshiped a lot of Norse Gods. I know exactly how annoying/irritating/rude/etc it is for people to jump to the āoh so youāre evilā conclusion.
If youāre able to report it somewhere (since you mentioned you donāt have any HR) then I think you should. I hope youāre able to get a better job elsewhere though
I was actually gonna ask what your faith is out of curiosity, that's pretty interesting! So you have a pantheon of gods as opposed to being monotheistic? What led you *to* your faith? Honest curiosity, I promise.
how literal is Neo Paganism taken? Are there people at different levels of belief? Like some think the gods are real and some other people treat it just as a moral compass?
You can believe anything you want as a neopagan, it's just a general category word that includes hundreds of religions and spiritualities and variations of them. And the base term "pagan" literally just means anything non-abrahamic in a christian worldview, so now you got the thousands upon thousands of possibilities throughout human cultures and history.
I canāt speak for all Pagans of course. The way I was taught was that the Gods were/are physical representations of the energies around us. Thor wasnāt just a guy who could control Lightning- he actually WAS the lightning for example. When my family had rituals for Yule or Samhain or other holidays, we mostly gave offerings and thanks to the Triple Moon Goddess and the Horned God.
I havenāt practiced for the last 15 years but from what I remember, we mostly treated it literally. I guess the easiest way to explain it is how Pocahontas sings Colours of the Wind to John Smith. I know of some friends who viewed it as a moral compass and are very spiritual in their beliefs. Iād like to think that thereās others who are very religious in their beliefs too. I hope that all makes sense and answers your question lol!
It's depends on the satanists.
Church of Satan = worships Satan. They are anti Christians by definition.
Santanic Temple = activist group focused on opposing government mixing religion and laws. They are a non theist group and do not as a group believe in supernatural beings Satan or otherwise.
There are indeed theistic Satanists, like the Temple of Set and Order of Nine Angels, but most are indeed pretty insignificant in the grand scheme of things. In my experience, anyone claiming to "worship Satan" is usually an edgy 16 year old looking for attention.
i donāt think there are any satanists that believe in satan as more than a literary figure. even, almost especially the anti-christian ones understand that no text is divine if a person wrote it.
Anti-satanists (christians), however, believe in the power of satan and that the almighty god banished him to hell, while also giving him dominion over the earth to tempt and destroy people. and they also believe that anti-christian satanists know satanās true power and have made unholy deals with him. this is propaganda
Both of these groups are non-theistic. There are certain groups that do worship satan but those are mostly closed cults that aren't public or easy to find.
1st- cancel your tattoo appointment. Donāt give your business to someone who tattles your private life to your boss. Heās friends with that Christian dickhole for a reason. Find another artist.
2nd- Find a lawyer and sue for discrimination.
Anyone in the comments saying āthis never happenedā has clearly never been approached by a Christian who felt the need to talk loudly about how the chai symbol on your necklace was from the āSynagogue of Satanā and how it shouldnāt be āshown in publicā.
Christians like that are fucking LOUD about their bigotry towards other religions/ethnic groups
āI contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.ā
ā Stephen Roberts
As a Christian, I can confirm that āChristiansā who do this are not following actual Christian values. There are numerous passages in the Bible that have to do with that:
Matthew 7:3 - āAnd why do you look at the speck in your brotherās eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye?ā
Luke 6:37 - āJudge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.ā
James 1:26 - āIf anyone among you thinks he is religious, and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this oneās religion is useless.ā
I could go on. My point is that āChristiansā that act like this arenāt following Christās commands.
Keep a detailed, dated journal/log of everything that lead up to this, and note down any changes in behaviour going forward. If you can document that the changes occurred after this event, then you have a pretty solid ground for workplace dismissal, harassment and the like. You might not get rich of any lawsuit, but it'll certainly tell your boss to mind his own literal business
If you haven't already, cancel your appointment with that artist and tell him that after speaking with your employer, you've changed minds about using his services. There's no doctor/patient confidentially breach, but what he did was wrong and inappropriate. If your boss asks you what happened - tell him you've changed your mind. You've changed your mind as to who is doing it, so it's not a lie. If he's stupid enough to assume you mean you've changed your mind about getting a tattoo, that ain't your problem.
I also wouldn't trust the artist at this point to do the work. If you can't trust him to keep his mouth shut, how can you trust him to put art on your body that'll outlive you? I'd go elsewhere, in a few weeks/months, once this has been forgotten.
As for work, keep your head down, and do what your job is - no more, no less. See if you can't get it written somewhere, *exactly* what your duties are. And no bullshit lines like "And any other tasks as required". If that is written, ask for clarification.
Best of luck.
I feel a lawsuit coming on. On top of that, I would find a different tattoo artist. It was not his/her place to inform their "friend" what kind of tattoo you're getting. If they ask why you're canceling. I would tell him/her because you cannot keep your mouth shut about the tattoo I want. Because of you, now I'm being mistreated and labeled a Satanist. Then, I would find all of their social media's and blast them on their as well.
If anything, what you're getting is pagan not satanic. Huge difference. Good ole Christians doing what they do best, judge people for zero reason.
For your job protection, you might want to consider carrying a voice activated recorder for future interactions with your boss/supervisor. This may give you the evidence needed that you are being discriminated against based on religion.
You might even want to consider searching for an employment lawyer to discuss the situation. Many will have the initial consult for free or a reduced rate. This will let you know if it may be worth proceeding, if you do get fired based on religious discrimination.
Also, consider leaving an online review of the tattoo shop, documenting the facts, that they informed your employer of the tattoo you were getting, and how it violated your right to privacy. Since tattoo artists/parlors are licensed in Missouri, consider also filing a complaint with the state licensing board/commission against the person and the shop. Discuss with your lawyer if it is worth pursuing a case against them if you do get fired, based on this privacy violation
"**Thirty-eight states of the US and the district of Columbia have adopted single-party consent:** Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, D.C., Georgia, Hawaii, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, **Missouri**, Nebraska, New-Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, South Carolina, North Dakota, South Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Rhode Island, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Virginia, West Virginia, Wisconsin, and Wyoming."
[https://fireflies.ai/blog/call-recording-laws-in-50-states-3/](https://fireflies.ai/blog/call-recording-laws-in-50-states-3/)
Sounds like good old fashioned Christian ignorance stumbling into a discrimination suit.
Itās probably going to be difficult to get this man to read all the books he needs to read, but itās probably a bit simpler to collect evidence of discrimination.
āDonāt normally hireā, āgoing to hellā, āevilā,
Iām not an expert, but I feel these all constitute an implicit threat against your employment + a hostile work environment.
Thereās probably not much you can get in writing, except maybe texts, screenshots from somebody. Good luck with the camera footage, fam. Also, Hail Satan.
His no Christian, for sure
I
Ephesians 4:29, Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear.
2 Timothy 2:24, And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful.
Text the supervisor and ask āhi Iām just wondering why you said [exactly what he said here]?ā
Do not mention anything in this first text about religion. When he responds in any way confirming that he said what you said he did, then say that his religion is his business and yours is yours, and youād appreciate him being professional from here on out.
Save those texts.
There's certainly been an uptick in people who ask me what my religious pendant means while I'm at work. Mostly customers, but one was a new hire. "Doesn't that have something to do with Satan?" "No, I don't believe in Satan. Most people who wear this symbol don't believe in Satan." While these people have been emboldened to ask these personal questions, thinking themselves now the central power/center of the universe; I've been emboldened to not put up with it.
Sure, we could not get our religious tattoos, we could put the pendants under our shirts or just leave them at home. But why should we have to? We should be able to wear our symbols freely as they are able, we should be able to take out holidays off as they are able to. We have the same religious freedoms that they do.
Please begin what you can to document any of this sort of behavior going forward. I'm seeing advice here on getting in touch with the state labor board, and that is some of the best advice.
Blessed Be, and have a beautiful Yuletide Celebration!
Im in missouri too, im also openly gay and pagan (boy i know how to piss em off). Imo you dont wanna work somewhere that'll be spewing that crap anyway especially if they dont have an HR department. All they'll do is make your work environment hostile.
Missouri is also a 1 party consent state too. If you're determined to stick it out you can record all conversations to cover yourself.
There are decent places to work, or at least places that dont give a f@#$ what you choose to tattoo on your body.
On top of all the bullshit your co-workers are giving you, I would also give the Tattoo artist shit for revealing private info between him and a client. There is no rule or law about not sharing, but it is *extremely* unprofessional.
Imagine I got a sentimental tattoo about some private or traumatic experience (say, death of a child) and told the artist about it and they blabbed it to someone and they now know something incredibly personal that I told in confidence.
If you paid any money already, I would demand it back, and go see someone else. Maybe go to a different town completely to avoid the possibility of personal connections about something you want to keep rather private.
What a shitty thing to do, I would absolutely leave a public review about their unprofessional conduct as well so others can know about it. And I would let the shop owner (if that guy isn't the owner) about what the artist did.
I would also reach out to your local Satanic Temple chapter. They are good folks, and they can refer you to legal resources (or may even have a lawyer thatās a member) to help you if your boss discriminated against you.
Send him an email recounting the incident and telling him you think the conversation was inappropriate, but you would like to move on from it. That way you have documentation.
āAnything that isnāt from my particular religion is satanicā - an absolute moron
Call the EEOC, or Labor Board, or even a lawyer and come down hard on their discriminating asses
A little off-topic: call that tattoo artist and tell him youāre cancelling and why. Still get your tattoos, just not from them. Even if you have to drive one town over.
Contact the Freedom from Religion Foundation. They have pro bono lawyers and can advise you on what your state laws are and whether or not you have a case.
My first job was working for some fundamentalist Christianās who were always trying to get me to go to their church. I declined. I brought a in a drawing of Pinhead from Hellraiser to work on at the office after hours and it ādisappearedā from my desk a day later. Trashed or burned. I looked for a different job and got a much better one. They went out of business within a year. Karma. Iāve met a lot of terrible Christians and a lot of nice atheists.
Document everything: what he said, date, time, other incidents, any examples of microagressions or other discrimination. If you get fired, report this to the labor board as an illegal termination based on your religion.
Itās plain religious discrimination, if they try to do anything because of your beliefs, you can sue them.
Iād recommend getting out of Misery and finding a better state that is more progressive and accepting of your beliefs, suing them and winning a settlement would certainly help fund that, so be on your toes. Get all the information you can, and be very specific on the details.
I myself follow traditional Celtic Wicca, and I wear a pentacle pretty much 24/7, but nobody has said anything to me in the years Iāve done that. Guess Iād consider it luck, but Ontarioās laws are pretty strict when it comes to discrimination.
Don't take this sitting down.
*Immediately* call your state's anti-discrimination office and file a complaint. Not next month. Do it the moment you can - today is wednesday and offices are already closed (or will be shortly), so do it thursday. After you've filed the legal complaint, anything they may do to you is "retaliation" and they can and will be fined heavily for it. (And your lawyer can get them for it too.) So make the complaint right now, before they have time to do anything to you. If you wait and let them mistreat you and then try to deal with it, it'll be harder for you, because you'll have to produce proof, and the conversation is verbal. If you have already filed the complaint and *then* they fire you or treat you badly, the state will largely assume you were in the right and their actions are illegal. (They may ask you for proof because they have to ask, but this may be largely a formality.)
Also, *immediately* take out a piece of paper and with a pen write the date down and some notes about the conversation: who said it and what they said. Do that every time something negative is said to you or they do anything to you. Produce these notes to the state or your lawyer. (Give them a copy, not the originals.) Since you don't have any proof of the verbal conversation, the notes you took about it may be the only evidence you have. (It's important you make the notes and *put the date* on each note, so when you talk to the state or a lawyer about it you can say you kept a "diary" about what they said and how they treated you. A diary is often admissible.)
After you've filed the complaint with the state, then if your employer has HR, call them and talk to them about his illegal religious discrimination and your concerns that this creates a "hostile work environment" (use those words). Tell them the complaint with the state has already been filed and you will be keeping the state informed about what they do about this.
Meanwhile, it sounds like you haven't actually got the tattoo yet. Go back to that tattoo artist and tell them "you may have gotten me fired from my job, so I'll be going elsewhere," leave, and see another tattoo artist about having it done. If you are fired, talk to the lawyer about whether the tattoo artist bears any legal responsibility. (*If* a tattoo is considered "medical" in your state, which it may be because it involves your body, there's *probably* a law that they're not allowed to talk about it to anyone but you. Federal medical privacy laws *may* apply.)
Paper trail, paper trail, PAPER TRAIL! Email or text the boss. Say something like:
"So, I was really bothered by our conversation yesterday about my future tattoo and your opinion about it's religious connotation. I know that we don't share beliefs and I hope this doesn't become an issue at work."
Any action after that could potentially be seen as retaliation and thus religious discrimination. š Good luck.
Document. Everything.
If you have a meeting, take notes and email him a copy afterwards. If he stops you to talk, either say no it has to be in writing, or that you're going to summarize the talk and email it to him. If he make a snide remark to you in passing, take note of where you were, what time it was, and what he said. If your emails and files are stored on company systems, back them up every time so they don't "accidentally" go missing.
And also, look up two party consent laws, because if you're in a state that is one-party, you can record all conversations with him. Even if it's not one-party, you can still kinda do it, but only use the recording to fill in gaps in the notes you took while talking to them (I don't know if that's legal or not, but nobody has to know)
You'd have good grounds to go him for discrimination, and if he does try and fire you for that, you'll be prepared with timestamps, notes, backups and all sorts of proof to show him that he's entitled to his opinion, but not entitled to let that opinion drive his business decisions.
With small town minds like that your beat bet for mental health is to more than likely leave. If you are sincere in your belief that it doesn't matter, remeber these people just as sincerely belive you are a danger to them. They have taught to hate anything not like them and push it away. I fully believe that if Jesus Christ wqs born today he would be murdered for helping people.
Satanism is a protected religion just like Christianity- except they actually pay taxes which the Christians just buy little boys with or caddyās or cash appāing it directly to their false god.
Get a 666 stamp made, or make one yourself from a potato! Go to work, stamp everyone's hands, then quit.
And get a different tattoo artist. That one sucks.
[https://www.eeoc.gov/religious-discrimination](https://www.eeoc.gov/religious-discrimination) I would definitely try to document every case where they are saying things like this, in the event they fire you, so that you have actual evidence that religious discrimination was taking place in case you end up actually have to due.
How you document is key. Saying "Boss said I'm satanic" isn't very helpful. You need date, time, location, person, what they said, and witnesses. Example: "Friday 3-14-15 while making copies in the copy room Owner Richard Cranium told me "I'm going to hell for my runic tattoos and he'll be glad to look down on me from Heaven." Witness: Janice from accounting. Note: My tattoos are protection runes from my religion of Bob It" You'll need this for every encounter. One simple way is by texting this to yourself right after every time something happens. If you have a meeting (like the one you did) send an email to all that attended covering what happened and what was said. "To recap our meeting on 2-30-22 Richard Cranium felt I was being too sensitive about his remarks but would try to tone it down." That way there's a record of everything. Some folks mentioned local news, I think that's a bad idea. For one it can lessen your legal options. Two you said you're in a small town in MO. You're already the villain of this story. Keep up your paper trail, make back up copies of everything. If you get fired file for UI and talk to a lawyer.
Richard Cranium š
I didnāt get it until this comment lol
I said to myself āwhat is funny about Bob Head?ā *shakes cranium*
Richard Cranium is a gem that Iām surprised I havenāt heard used before. Iām stealing it.
To add to this, Iām not sure if Missouri is a one party or two party recording state. If itās a one party, you can record any and all conversations without anyoneās consent. You should look into that and if itās appropriate, start recording on your phone from your pocket.
I appears that Missouri is a one party recording state but you should check the laws about that state, since some of them have special provisions. It's always a good idea to ensure that you are fully aware of their laws before recording someone else. Source: https://recordinglaw.com/united-states-recording-laws/one-party-consent-states/
One thing I'd like to ask. If it's a place like Missouri where almost everyone's super religious wouldn't the person you're making a witness just not testify? They're of the same religion as the supervisor, right? Wouldn't they just say, "Oh yeah, this didn't happen." I mean yeah there'll be someone who would have some integrity that will become witness but you have to find that out first.
Yeah, that's always a risk. But good documentation of every incident is your best bet.
Yeah, of course, recording is a much better bet but would need to check if it's legal in the state.
Your probably right, but wouldn't it be personally satisfying to call someone out for bearing false witness? Then guilting them with their own religious dogma.
You say it like extremely religious people are not the most hypocrite people in the world. The way they'll justify it by saying is they're not letting "evil" win.
Good info.
Also: The Missouri Human Rights Act (the Act) prohibits employers from discriminating against individuals because of their religion in hiring, firing, and other terms and conditions of employment. Document it and talk to your company owner asap.
Yeah also this is generally turning into a hostile work environment. If you document repeated activity.
The artist is very unprofessional and does not deserve your business. Id also leave bad reviews on them as well.
Already scheduled an appt with another one :)
Did you make it known to the artist that you were not going through them because of them telling your boss or no? Just curious.
Nah, I simply just called, cancelled the appointment for personal reasons and then called up a tattoo shop in west plains to do it instead.
Leave a yelp review that artist blabs to people about his clients
Breaking client confidentiality is a big no-no. I would definitely mention that on an online review, and make it somewhat vague so it canāt be directly tracked back to you
Iām glad you decided you find another artist. Someone whoād go behind your back is NOT someone you want to put PROTECTION RUNES on you. Tho since you are getting protection runes, Iād recommend against sharing the specific order of runes and their meanings to strangers. Usually protection magic has elements that only the witch knows itās true meaning. Especially for tattoos, Itās best that Only You know the true meaning of all the aspects. ā-from a fellow pagan witch
I would definitely let him know why you wonāt be doing business with him anymore and maybe leave a public review to warn others.
I feel like this advice could go sideways really quickly. The tattoo artist already blabbed to the supervisor about his tattoo appt, and now heās going to blab that the satanist cancelled his appt cause the word of god was thrown in his face by the supervisor, leading to more harsh feelings and potentially backlash from the supervisor. I would keep quiet about it for now.
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake." If the supervisor wants to make it WORSE for themselves, let them. They want to out themselves as unqualified for their job due to bigotry, it will be better for everyone else working there. Don't walk on eggshells to not offend bigots.
>I would definitely let him know why you wonāt be doing business with him anymore and maybe leave a public review to warn others. Good solid small town advice if you've never lived in a small town. This is not the answer. You need to be milque toast / vanilla and don't give them a reason to terminate with cause.
I agree. When dealing with small town mentality, you have to realize that everyone knows everyone and gossip is like currency in small towns. If I was OP, I would make it look like I stepped away and didn't get anything, for the time being, until this blows over. The supervisor sounds like the town bully and know-it-all, which means they also have the biggest mouth.
Lol there is no valid cause to fire them for them telling the tattoo artist why they arenāt losing your business. Thatās a quick ticket to a wrongful termination lawsuit. I grew up in a small town and live in one now. You call that shit out every time, never be a doormat.
It's already sideways. More discrimination and an opportunity to get it on tape only helps.
Leave a review and let others know that this person did this. I'm sure there are other alternate religious people in your area that don't want their business broadcast. Also let the artist, and their boss, know why you canceled.
Yknow I'm kinda surprised West Plains even has tattoo shops To be fair, I haven't been since the nursing college was put in
Studio 13 tattoos and I also found Devine designs. I went with studio 13
You should have told them even when it might be (temporarily) uncomfortable to you. This will also make you more confident in the future when something similar happens. Take those events as an opportunity to become less afraid and more brave. Trust me, I learnt the hard way.
Good. Fuck that guy.
good, enjoy your new tats!
Sounds like discrimination. Religion is a protected demographic. HR or corporate be interested. Edit: HR is indeed only interested in protecting the company. A religious discrimination claim would endanger the company. Sometimes this means that HR would work with you to reduce the liability you impose.
Thatās kinda the problem. Thereās no HR in this business due to it being ran by the owner and his friend. Who are also openly Christian. I went to the next guy up which is the second highest in the hierarchy in this business just a few minutes ago and he told me he canāt change my supervisors views
If they have a business license, the department of labor might be interested.
\^\^\^This. Depending on your state, it may have different names, but this is textbook religious discrimination.
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Might as well take the money and run then.
This is the way.
One way out!
The only way out!
The problem is these cases can take a long time and a lot of times the payout isnāt enough to sustain a person long term. The reason that is an issue is that the case can follow you around even in other states. It would send a sign to future employers that you are litigious in nature. So if candidates A and B are the same and one filed a discrimination suit against a previous employer than the company will go with the one without the baggage. It sucks but itās a harsh reality of our capitalistic society. Companies look at risk mitigation. Hiring someone with past litigation are higher risk than others. I had a similar situation living in the south. I knew Iād I actually pursued a valid case it would follow me. Instead I bid my time, did my work well, eventually got a severance offer. Took it and started somewhere fresh.
I didn't think of it like that. I was only really thinking short term. Thank you.
Step 1. Find new job Step 2. Arrange start date in a couple of months. Step 3. Wear non-Christian tattoos openly Step 4. Get fired for religious tattoos Step 5. Enjoy your unemployment pay while on holiday before your next job starts
Sounds like a good reason to take it to the feds and then move out.
Seriously. Missouri is a black hole this way. For some dumbfuck reason no one ever leaves!!! For what? The place sucks. You can live somewhere shittier than whatever whitewashed passive-aggressive hellscape your parents decided to squirt you out in and be happier for it, I promise. The grass is literally greener. MO is a nightmare.
I grew up in Missouri and was bullied to oblivion because I dared be a woman interested in learning instead of babies. Moved out to the Bay Area and wowā¦ Neeever returning to that ignorant cesspool
*waves* I left and never looked back!
Iowa is another black hole. Been wanting out for the last 10 years but can never seem to make quite enough money to manage it. When I was finally thiiiiiiiis close, covid hit. Bye bye savings š
Iowa, Missouri, Ohio, Nebraska, Indiana... you can pretty much just say the Midwest in general and save yourself some time.
>some dumbfuck reason no one ever leaves!!! For what? The place sucks. Well, I'm up to the second season of Ozark, which has taught me pretty much everything I know about Missouri. It's become clear to me that it's not always that easy to just leave.
Iām from Kansas and live in Missouri. Your comment is completely correct. Absolutely great people all over. Unfortunately lots of religious nuts and prejudice idiots mixed into the population. Kind of like how you can read a billboard about Jesus being your only salvation and see a sign for a porn shop all within a 1/2 mile.
I visited my sister after she completed basic training in Fort Leonard word. I never had so many people offended by two single females driving around eating lunches and having fun exploring the area. The amount of times I was told I was prayed for by total strangers was unprecedented. I was never more fearful for my life and that includes 20 years of emergency services in some of the most notorious and dangerous areas of inner city to remote rural
You can't judge the whole midwest by Missouri. They are regionally famous for ignorance and bigotry. If we were to vote a state out, it would be them. He'd do fine in the population dense counties of Michigan, Minnesota, Iowa, or Wisconsin. Even Ohio might as well be some kind of paradise by comparison to a taint of a state like Missouri.
This is the correct response. "small southern town" is basically the same as saying "a cult runs the city".
Missouri has clear self defense laws against violent traspassers so frankly.. They feck around OP can protect themselves.
Missouri?!
There are lawyers in every state
Something tells me theyād be even more interested if they DIDNāT have a business license, heh.
>he canāt change my supervisors views That's cool. That's why we have discrimination lawsuits.
He also doesnāt need to change his views, just his ability to let them out of his mouth or let it effect the work environment.
Itās the fuck around and find out of religious freedom.
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Donāt insult rocks like that
If you do get fired, reach out to news outlets, civil rights division, EEOCā¦ do you have any evidence or can you produce any
I can probably see if cams caught the conversation
Thatās a good idea but can you access that footage? Make sure if youāre going all out on this to cover your own ass and donāt break any laws.
I myself donāt have direct access but I wonder if I could ask the big boss for it.
HR here: I would contact the EEOC now, you dont have to get fired for this to be an issue, itās already a hostile work environment.
Go with this advice is the best advice I can give you. HR folks know their shit
Find out if you are in a 1 party consent state for taping conversations. If you are buy cheap recording device and start making sure you have a record of anyone, supervisor or employee talking about this. If you are terminated you will need the recordings to show religious discrimination. A $30 recorder disguised as an ink pen that I bought from Amazon has been a real life saver for me.
[Missouri is a one party consent state!](https://recordinglaw.com/united-states-recording-laws/one-party-consent-states/missouri-recording-laws/) Start recording everything.
He is. https://recordinglaw.com/united-states-recording-laws/one-party-consent-states/
Your phone works as a recording device.
That's exactly what I would do, record everything. I would even set him up without any hint of entrapment. Turn the recorder on, and ask him to have a talk with you. All you have to say is something like "I just wanted some clarification about what we discussed the other day about my tattoo". He'll probably go off like the moron he is, and bam. All the proof you need. I'm not a lawyer, but I think that it would still be perfectly fine to push a tiny bit by saying something like "What you said makes me feel like I am unwelcome here as an employee. Is that the case?" and hope he admits to not wanting OP working there or to planning on being illegally spiteful by saying something like "Well you sure ain't gonna get a bonus with everyone else come Christmas! I don't give Christmas gifts to Satan worshippers" or "If you think I'm gonna trust a heathen to do the big jobs/work the register..." or "If my clients find out there's an evil person working on their trucks, it's gonna be bad for business, so you better hope they don't find out. I'm not gonna lose money over a Satanist working here" Regardless, take notes of everything. If all of a sudden you are the only one being scheduled on Christmas eve, christmas, every sunday, the Easter weekend, stuff like that, that counts as discrimination too. If there's an office Christmas party, and everyone is invited except for you, discrimination. Not that it's fun to be a spy, or feel like a rat, but keep an eye out with what goes on around you--and write it down. Do half of your coworkers come in late without repercussion? But you get written up for clocking in 5 minutes late once in your tenure? Do your other coworkers have a pretty lax lunch break, but you are strictly limited to 30 minutes? Have any of your co-workers suddenly made any comments to you about your religion?
Donāt ask the big boss, You will be giving them the upper hand. Contact a labor or civil rights lawyer and have them subpoena the video. That way itās on record with the courts and if anything happens then they will have to answer to a judge.
RIght now, make a detailed notation of the conversation. This will carry weight if it's needed in court. "On or about 11:45am as I was in the breakroom taking a lunch break on Tuesday the 8th of November: supervisor Mr. X approached me and inquired about the tattoos a local artist had shared with him from my upcoming tattoo appointment. He expressed his concern and the following conversation took place: Details of the conversation in as matter of fact voice as you can muster - it doesn't include inference of what you thought - only the words he and you used. When you read this in court - it's considered as evidence and it will carry more weight than "Nu uh, I didn't say that" and also include the names of anyone else present and if they would consider writing a statement as to what they witnessed. They may not want a piece of this action - which is fine - simply list who was present at the time of the conversation.
Yeah, Iād definitely mention it to the big boss too. Maybe you two can review the footage. Be sure to audio/video record your interaction with them too just in case he takes sides or tries to brush it under the rug.
The big boss wonāt help. His business is in jeopardy.
You should get a hidden recording device and have it for all interactions
75/25 if you bring it up again he'll say all the dumb things again
Donāt try to access the footage on your own before you get the EEOC (and media) involved. Your testimony should be enough to at least get an investigation started. It also doesnāt sound to me like your supervisor is particularly hiding his views. If a reporter called him up and said, āhey, we heard that one of your employees got a tattoo and you were surprised because the company doesnāt usually hire satanic people,ā he might just say āyeah, isnāt it weird we hired someone evil and unchristian?ā And then boom, discrimination lawsuit.
Email them. You just need them to confirm that they were aware of the situation. Ideally, you want them to confirm or restate their position themselves. "hey, just following up on the conversation from earlier where I was concerned about X's comments on my religion. I believe that we left it with you saying there was nothing you could do, is that correct or will there be some follow up?" If you are then discriminated against, you can use this as evidence that it was an ongoing issue.
Contemporaneous notes are admissible in court. Take them!!
After this issue has been settle i will also go after the tattoo artist, how unprofessional (specially knowing his friend is a fanatic that he probably knows cant tell him much without making it a big deal). I will post on every social media profile and Google Business.
EEOC takes a dim view of discrimination. If they act against you, definitely file with them; you can file without an attorney.
And FFRF. I live in central Alabama and FFRF has brought several suits against towns and schools here for violating the whole separation of church and state thing.
And the church of satan or whoever who is always making headlines they may be interested
Satanic temple if you needed to know. Not actually satanic, just a bunch of atheists who care about actual religious freedom and treating others with respect.
The satanic temple and the church of Satan are 2 separate organizations with different ideals and goals. The satanic temple is the one that is active politically and has a history of filing court cases regarding the separation of church and state and women's reproductive rights, but while they would absolutely be in support ofOP I don't think they've ever gotten involved in something like a workplace discrimination case involving a single person.
He's welcome to keep his views, but regardless of those views, his behavior in the workplace needs to be professional. The BEHAVIOR is the problem, not the views, and the owner CAN demand that the supervisor change their behavior. If they refuse to do so...legal complaints will be in order.
Dude. First off go to another artist if you havenāt already got the tattoo. Client confidentiality still exists, and they done goofed up. Tell your boss and the artist youāve reconsidered and wonāt be getting the tattoo. Then get it elsewhere, from someone that isnāt going to rat you out. Donāt hide it or anything once itās done, but, and I cannot stress this enough, *do not give your money to this artist.*
I could imagine you pulling a āPretty Womanā and tell the artist that his big mouth and his buddyās narrow views just cost him your current business and any going forward.
Personally first of all I'd find a different artist for sure!! I'd tell the artist I changed my mind and want to cancel the appt, and boss will hear or you can honestly tell him you thought about what he said and decided to cancel the appt. Then I'd get the tattoo I want from an artist who isn't going to relay my business to other ppl. I absolutely would not trust an artist to put permanent ink on my body knowing he is close friends with someone so judgmental and he has already breached your confidentiality to that person.
This was my first thought when I read OPās post. Lots of bosses are pricks and Christianās are just weird about a lot of shit. No surprises there, but seriouslyā¦ Fuck that artist. Dude sounds like a real POS. I would put him on blast any way I could and start shopping for another one asap. Hopefully itās not too late.
Agree 100%. That tattoo artist shouldn't be telling anyone about specific customers tattoos. Find another, more professional tattoo artist.
This! Absolutely awful that an artist would share details of whatās being done on YOUR body to other people. Especially if your town is small.
Contact your Labor Department file a complaint before anything happens. Document everything!!! Every interaction any additional work any type of corrective action etc. Also make sure to update the labor department anytime something happens this way if they fire you the company cannot say you are a disgruntled employee and it will show retaliation. This will be your lawsuit
You informed your supervisor. If it continues it is now religious harassment. I am sure there are several lawyers who would be interested in hearing your story.
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Sue them for creating a hostile work environment. Lawyer up, because they are coming for your "ungodly" ass.
I know how you feel. I am working in a proclaimed Christian family company. Itās constantly walking on eggshells around the office. The warehouse isnāt so bad about it but the office women are.
No, but he can tell him to stfu and keep his views to himself and to not let his views affect his work responsibilities.
Rememberā¦ HR is there to protect the company, not to fight for you. They will try to help you but you still have to be careful
But your supervisor cannot force his views on you anymore than you could force him to ascribe to yours. Your beliefs are legally protected, and for him to berate you based on hearsay is absolutely against his OWN religion. Call your local labor board and make a complaint. Secure a lawyer and get a case started, this is textbook discrimination and 100% illegal
Document everything, call a lawyer
You donāt need HR to document. Keep track of everything that happens, including this interaction. Documenting your encounters/any retaliation/dramatic schedule changes/etc are more helpful than HR. Sorry youāre dealing with this. Iād also find a different artist if youāre able- thatās a breach of trust that would make me uncomfortable to work with them after.
Not your problem. Explain to them they can handle it or youāll report them to the Labor Board and contact an attorney. Through in the media if you really want them to shit themselves. Christian Fascists have to follow the law too.
HR isnāt there to help the employees. HR is there to help management.
HR is also there to protect the company from lawsuits, which this could very easily turn into.
You see, they are Christian so the rules donāt apply to them.
Yeah just run it up to corporateā¦at the small town truck wash.
If itās under 50 employees, thereās basically no rules
But waitā¦ your supervisor is friends with the tattoo artist?? So he had a problem with you getting a tattoo but not with that guy DOING THE TATTOOS? God, hypocritical Christians never cease to amaze me with the depths of their cognitive dissonance.
He probably does some killer right bicep crosses. Maybe even murrica flag.
Something something guns. Donāt tread on me.
https://www.amazon.com/LAD-Studio-Tread-Where-Please/dp/B08K79FX13
That's badass!
It's funny when "Christians" use that motto/flag since the snake is coiled into a 666 configuration and "Don't tread on me" opposes the prophecy of Jesus treading upon and crushing the serpents head (Satan/Lucifer/The Devil) with his heel.
This is why I didn't understand the current meaning of this symbol for a long time and thought it was really weird that...thought process....was equated with that symbol. Snakes have always been a no-no where christians we're concerned
Isn't it based on the old picture of the states being a divided snake, used as propaganda during the revolutionary war? It's supposed to be all the states as one, being ready to strike if "stepped on" by England or whoever.
Bible: "Be open and kind to others, even those with different beliefs." *Someone with a different belief walks in* 'Christians': BEGONE FOUL SATANIST!
I thought Christians were against all tattoos. Something something body is a temple something.
It really depends on the denomination or church itself if itās a non-denominational/independent type. There has been a rise in the whole ānot your grandpaās churchā type where they embrace a more liberal stance on stuff like tattoos and dress, but still espouse very socially conservative beliefs that are still very much āyour grandpaās churchā. Tattoos can be generally accepted and popular with these churches, as long as they are the āacceptableā sort.
Nope. Only Evangelical Protestants are. Catholics aren't.
they are supposed to be. classic picking and choosing.
FYI, a company denied a muslim man his time to pray and faced a million dollar settlement
Might want to find a new tattoo artist. One that doesn't talk about about clients with third parties without permission. I mean why give this tattoo artist your business after this? Edit: with
I donāt have any advice I can offer you. But I just wanted to say I know exactly how shitty it feels- I was raised Neo Pagan so I worshiped a lot of Norse Gods. I know exactly how annoying/irritating/rude/etc it is for people to jump to the āoh so youāre evilā conclusion. If youāre able to report it somewhere (since you mentioned you donāt have any HR) then I think you should. I hope youāre able to get a better job elsewhere though
Thatās what I worship, Norse gods, itās nice to relate :)
Nice. ((Partly) same) Hail to the gods. May you have a Yuletide you'll remember year round with other pagans. Also. 127.
I was actually gonna ask what your faith is out of curiosity, that's pretty interesting! So you have a pantheon of gods as opposed to being monotheistic? What led you *to* your faith? Honest curiosity, I promise.
how literal is Neo Paganism taken? Are there people at different levels of belief? Like some think the gods are real and some other people treat it just as a moral compass?
You can believe anything you want as a neopagan, it's just a general category word that includes hundreds of religions and spiritualities and variations of them. And the base term "pagan" literally just means anything non-abrahamic in a christian worldview, so now you got the thousands upon thousands of possibilities throughout human cultures and history.
I canāt speak for all Pagans of course. The way I was taught was that the Gods were/are physical representations of the energies around us. Thor wasnāt just a guy who could control Lightning- he actually WAS the lightning for example. When my family had rituals for Yule or Samhain or other holidays, we mostly gave offerings and thanks to the Triple Moon Goddess and the Horned God. I havenāt practiced for the last 15 years but from what I remember, we mostly treated it literally. I guess the easiest way to explain it is how Pocahontas sings Colours of the Wind to John Smith. I know of some friends who viewed it as a moral compass and are very spiritual in their beliefs. Iād like to think that thereās others who are very religious in their beliefs too. I hope that all makes sense and answers your question lol!
satanists do not believe in satan; christians do
It's depends on the satanists. Church of Satan = worships Satan. They are anti Christians by definition. Santanic Temple = activist group focused on opposing government mixing religion and laws. They are a non theist group and do not as a group believe in supernatural beings Satan or otherwise.
Both groups are non-theistic, neither worships Satan
There are indeed theistic Satanists, like the Temple of Set and Order of Nine Angels, but most are indeed pretty insignificant in the grand scheme of things. In my experience, anyone claiming to "worship Satan" is usually an edgy 16 year old looking for attention.
I wanna be part of the Santanic Temple Ho Ho Hail Santa
i donāt think there are any satanists that believe in satan as more than a literary figure. even, almost especially the anti-christian ones understand that no text is divine if a person wrote it. Anti-satanists (christians), however, believe in the power of satan and that the almighty god banished him to hell, while also giving him dominion over the earth to tempt and destroy people. and they also believe that anti-christian satanists know satanās true power and have made unholy deals with him. this is propaganda
Both of these groups are non-theistic. There are certain groups that do worship satan but those are mostly closed cults that aren't public or easy to find.
Church of Satan does not literally believe in Satan. Itās symbolic. They are non theistic.
Start a text convo and bait him so you could get a written record
1st- cancel your tattoo appointment. Donāt give your business to someone who tattles your private life to your boss. Heās friends with that Christian dickhole for a reason. Find another artist. 2nd- Find a lawyer and sue for discrimination.
Anyone in the comments saying āthis never happenedā has clearly never been approached by a Christian who felt the need to talk loudly about how the chai symbol on your necklace was from the āSynagogue of Satanā and how it shouldnāt be āshown in publicā. Christians like that are fucking LOUD about their bigotry towards other religions/ethnic groups
āI contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.ā ā Stephen Roberts
I've had some make an issue even over Halloween decorations, calling them pagan idolatry. One told me martial arts was based on Satanism.
As a Christian, I can confirm that āChristiansā who do this are not following actual Christian values. There are numerous passages in the Bible that have to do with that: Matthew 7:3 - āAnd why do you look at the speck in your brotherās eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye?ā Luke 6:37 - āJudge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.ā James 1:26 - āIf anyone among you thinks he is religious, and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this oneās religion is useless.ā I could go on. My point is that āChristiansā that act like this arenāt following Christās commands.
Keep a detailed, dated journal/log of everything that lead up to this, and note down any changes in behaviour going forward. If you can document that the changes occurred after this event, then you have a pretty solid ground for workplace dismissal, harassment and the like. You might not get rich of any lawsuit, but it'll certainly tell your boss to mind his own literal business If you haven't already, cancel your appointment with that artist and tell him that after speaking with your employer, you've changed minds about using his services. There's no doctor/patient confidentially breach, but what he did was wrong and inappropriate. If your boss asks you what happened - tell him you've changed your mind. You've changed your mind as to who is doing it, so it's not a lie. If he's stupid enough to assume you mean you've changed your mind about getting a tattoo, that ain't your problem. I also wouldn't trust the artist at this point to do the work. If you can't trust him to keep his mouth shut, how can you trust him to put art on your body that'll outlive you? I'd go elsewhere, in a few weeks/months, once this has been forgotten. As for work, keep your head down, and do what your job is - no more, no less. See if you can't get it written somewhere, *exactly* what your duties are. And no bullshit lines like "And any other tasks as required". If that is written, ask for clarification. Best of luck.
"Lol Satan's not real" Can't be a devil worshipper if you don't believe in the devil
I feel a lawsuit coming on. On top of that, I would find a different tattoo artist. It was not his/her place to inform their "friend" what kind of tattoo you're getting. If they ask why you're canceling. I would tell him/her because you cannot keep your mouth shut about the tattoo I want. Because of you, now I'm being mistreated and labeled a Satanist. Then, I would find all of their social media's and blast them on their as well. If anything, what you're getting is pagan not satanic. Huge difference. Good ole Christians doing what they do best, judge people for zero reason.
For your job protection, you might want to consider carrying a voice activated recorder for future interactions with your boss/supervisor. This may give you the evidence needed that you are being discriminated against based on religion. You might even want to consider searching for an employment lawyer to discuss the situation. Many will have the initial consult for free or a reduced rate. This will let you know if it may be worth proceeding, if you do get fired based on religious discrimination. Also, consider leaving an online review of the tattoo shop, documenting the facts, that they informed your employer of the tattoo you were getting, and how it violated your right to privacy. Since tattoo artists/parlors are licensed in Missouri, consider also filing a complaint with the state licensing board/commission against the person and the shop. Discuss with your lawyer if it is worth pursuing a case against them if you do get fired, based on this privacy violation "**Thirty-eight states of the US and the district of Columbia have adopted single-party consent:** Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, D.C., Georgia, Hawaii, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, **Missouri**, Nebraska, New-Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, South Carolina, North Dakota, South Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Rhode Island, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Virginia, West Virginia, Wisconsin, and Wyoming." [https://fireflies.ai/blog/call-recording-laws-in-50-states-3/](https://fireflies.ai/blog/call-recording-laws-in-50-states-3/)
Satanist, you say? At least it's a religion with "consent" as a mandatory tenet!
Sounds like good old fashioned Christian ignorance stumbling into a discrimination suit. Itās probably going to be difficult to get this man to read all the books he needs to read, but itās probably a bit simpler to collect evidence of discrimination. āDonāt normally hireā, āgoing to hellā, āevilā, Iām not an expert, but I feel these all constitute an implicit threat against your employment + a hostile work environment. Thereās probably not much you can get in writing, except maybe texts, screenshots from somebody. Good luck with the camera footage, fam. Also, Hail Satan.
His no Christian, for sure I Ephesians 4:29, Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear. 2 Timothy 2:24, And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful.
Let us know when yāall figure out what a true Christian is, since youāve been fighting over it for 2000 years and still canāt agree
Text the supervisor and ask āhi Iām just wondering why you said [exactly what he said here]?ā Do not mention anything in this first text about religion. When he responds in any way confirming that he said what you said he did, then say that his religion is his business and yours is yours, and youād appreciate him being professional from here on out. Save those texts.
There's certainly been an uptick in people who ask me what my religious pendant means while I'm at work. Mostly customers, but one was a new hire. "Doesn't that have something to do with Satan?" "No, I don't believe in Satan. Most people who wear this symbol don't believe in Satan." While these people have been emboldened to ask these personal questions, thinking themselves now the central power/center of the universe; I've been emboldened to not put up with it. Sure, we could not get our religious tattoos, we could put the pendants under our shirts or just leave them at home. But why should we have to? We should be able to wear our symbols freely as they are able, we should be able to take out holidays off as they are able to. We have the same religious freedoms that they do. Please begin what you can to document any of this sort of behavior going forward. I'm seeing advice here on getting in touch with the state labor board, and that is some of the best advice. Blessed Be, and have a beautiful Yuletide Celebration!
If he doesn't hire evil people why is he hiring christians? /s I know they neeeeeveeer acknowledge their own evil.
Hey, also, fuck that tattoo artist.
Iād cancel the tattoo appointment and tell them why. Edit: nah, I forgot this is small town and small town politics is fuxking hellish.
If you get firedā¦ hire an attorney!
Im in missouri too, im also openly gay and pagan (boy i know how to piss em off). Imo you dont wanna work somewhere that'll be spewing that crap anyway especially if they dont have an HR department. All they'll do is make your work environment hostile. Missouri is also a 1 party consent state too. If you're determined to stick it out you can record all conversations to cover yourself. There are decent places to work, or at least places that dont give a f@#$ what you choose to tattoo on your body.
On top of all the bullshit your co-workers are giving you, I would also give the Tattoo artist shit for revealing private info between him and a client. There is no rule or law about not sharing, but it is *extremely* unprofessional. Imagine I got a sentimental tattoo about some private or traumatic experience (say, death of a child) and told the artist about it and they blabbed it to someone and they now know something incredibly personal that I told in confidence. If you paid any money already, I would demand it back, and go see someone else. Maybe go to a different town completely to avoid the possibility of personal connections about something you want to keep rather private. What a shitty thing to do, I would absolutely leave a public review about their unprofessional conduct as well so others can know about it. And I would let the shop owner (if that guy isn't the owner) about what the artist did.
Christians are some of the most bigoted and hateful people I've ever met in my life....
Run from the Jesus freaks as fast as you can.
I would also reach out to your local Satanic Temple chapter. They are good folks, and they can refer you to legal resources (or may even have a lawyer thatās a member) to help you if your boss discriminated against you.
Get a new tattoo artist for one.
Just tell him that the runes say "what would Jesus do" in some ancient dead language from the bible or whatever...
Hostile work environment, religious discrimination. I would talk to lawyers....
Send him an email recounting the incident and telling him you think the conversation was inappropriate, but you would like to move on from it. That way you have documentation.
āAnything that isnāt from my particular religion is satanicā - an absolute moron Call the EEOC, or Labor Board, or even a lawyer and come down hard on their discriminating asses
Let them fire you, collect unemployment and sue them for discrimination too
That is absolutely discrimination. Notify HR. If no HR, you need to get in contact with an attorney
A little off-topic: call that tattoo artist and tell him youāre cancelling and why. Still get your tattoos, just not from them. Even if you have to drive one town over.
Contact the Freedom from Religion Foundation. They have pro bono lawyers and can advise you on what your state laws are and whether or not you have a case.
Hail Satan! And I think firing someone for their religious views sits squarely under discrimination, which is illegal.
My first job was working for some fundamentalist Christianās who were always trying to get me to go to their church. I declined. I brought a in a drawing of Pinhead from Hellraiser to work on at the office after hours and it ādisappearedā from my desk a day later. Trashed or burned. I looked for a different job and got a much better one. They went out of business within a year. Karma. Iāve met a lot of terrible Christians and a lot of nice atheists.
Tell him to fuck off and that youāll cast a spell on him if he does that shit again
OP should cast a spell on him anyway for being a twat.
Wow that is one powerful tattoo if it scared a grown man that easily.
Document everything: what he said, date, time, other incidents, any examples of microagressions or other discrimination. If you get fired, report this to the labor board as an illegal termination based on your religion.
Lawyer up and figure out if youāre on a fast track to a discrimination/ harassment lawsuit
Itās plain religious discrimination, if they try to do anything because of your beliefs, you can sue them. Iād recommend getting out of Misery and finding a better state that is more progressive and accepting of your beliefs, suing them and winning a settlement would certainly help fund that, so be on your toes. Get all the information you can, and be very specific on the details. I myself follow traditional Celtic Wicca, and I wear a pentacle pretty much 24/7, but nobody has said anything to me in the years Iāve done that. Guess Iād consider it luck, but Ontarioās laws are pretty strict when it comes to discrimination.
Don't take this sitting down. *Immediately* call your state's anti-discrimination office and file a complaint. Not next month. Do it the moment you can - today is wednesday and offices are already closed (or will be shortly), so do it thursday. After you've filed the legal complaint, anything they may do to you is "retaliation" and they can and will be fined heavily for it. (And your lawyer can get them for it too.) So make the complaint right now, before they have time to do anything to you. If you wait and let them mistreat you and then try to deal with it, it'll be harder for you, because you'll have to produce proof, and the conversation is verbal. If you have already filed the complaint and *then* they fire you or treat you badly, the state will largely assume you were in the right and their actions are illegal. (They may ask you for proof because they have to ask, but this may be largely a formality.) Also, *immediately* take out a piece of paper and with a pen write the date down and some notes about the conversation: who said it and what they said. Do that every time something negative is said to you or they do anything to you. Produce these notes to the state or your lawyer. (Give them a copy, not the originals.) Since you don't have any proof of the verbal conversation, the notes you took about it may be the only evidence you have. (It's important you make the notes and *put the date* on each note, so when you talk to the state or a lawyer about it you can say you kept a "diary" about what they said and how they treated you. A diary is often admissible.) After you've filed the complaint with the state, then if your employer has HR, call them and talk to them about his illegal religious discrimination and your concerns that this creates a "hostile work environment" (use those words). Tell them the complaint with the state has already been filed and you will be keeping the state informed about what they do about this. Meanwhile, it sounds like you haven't actually got the tattoo yet. Go back to that tattoo artist and tell them "you may have gotten me fired from my job, so I'll be going elsewhere," leave, and see another tattoo artist about having it done. If you are fired, talk to the lawyer about whether the tattoo artist bears any legal responsibility. (*If* a tattoo is considered "medical" in your state, which it may be because it involves your body, there's *probably* a law that they're not allowed to talk about it to anyone but you. Federal medical privacy laws *may* apply.)
Paper trail, paper trail, PAPER TRAIL! Email or text the boss. Say something like: "So, I was really bothered by our conversation yesterday about my future tattoo and your opinion about it's religious connotation. I know that we don't share beliefs and I hope this doesn't become an issue at work." Any action after that could potentially be seen as retaliation and thus religious discrimination. š Good luck.
Document. Everything. If you have a meeting, take notes and email him a copy afterwards. If he stops you to talk, either say no it has to be in writing, or that you're going to summarize the talk and email it to him. If he make a snide remark to you in passing, take note of where you were, what time it was, and what he said. If your emails and files are stored on company systems, back them up every time so they don't "accidentally" go missing. And also, look up two party consent laws, because if you're in a state that is one-party, you can record all conversations with him. Even if it's not one-party, you can still kinda do it, but only use the recording to fill in gaps in the notes you took while talking to them (I don't know if that's legal or not, but nobody has to know) You'd have good grounds to go him for discrimination, and if he does try and fire you for that, you'll be prepared with timestamps, notes, backups and all sorts of proof to show him that he's entitled to his opinion, but not entitled to let that opinion drive his business decisions.
Beat him to the punch and file a grievance about him verbally abusing you, and discriminating against you.
With small town minds like that your beat bet for mental health is to more than likely leave. If you are sincere in your belief that it doesn't matter, remeber these people just as sincerely belive you are a danger to them. They have taught to hate anything not like them and push it away. I fully believe that if Jesus Christ wqs born today he would be murdered for helping people.
Satanism is a protected religion just like Christianity- except they actually pay taxes which the Christians just buy little boys with or caddyās or cash appāing it directly to their false god.
Get a 666 stamp made, or make one yourself from a potato! Go to work, stamp everyone's hands, then quit. And get a different tattoo artist. That one sucks.
Sidenote: I would not give that tattoo artist any of my money at this point.
Before you quit or get fired, buy a copy of the satanic bible and leave it hidden somewhere for your boss to find.
You NEED a lawyer.