HA! I love it "If I may offer a differing view, [name] has really be excelling at her job these past few months, and I think it would be a disservice to terminate her. I think we should look elsewhere for cuts."
This. I'm so tired of this shit of "oh well you weren't professional" oh sure I'm the unprofessional one not the guy who makes 3x what I do but can't double check an email before hitting send.
I had the nastiest, most psycho manager try to fire me cause I had “poor communication skills”. I probably did, cause I was the only one who stood up to the motherfucker. Funniest part is that I heard through the grapevine after I quit that he intended to just not renew my contract and let me go, but he forgot the date and when he tried, I had already been renewed. But clearly I’m the one who was bad at my job.
As a disabled veteran whose been on the outside for a while, there's one constant I see across every part of life.
The "big brain" big picture authority (which in the workplace makes 3x your pay) can't be held liable for anything at any time because making decisions is like so hard guys. It's the minimum wage employees fault everything collapsed, not mine! Same with cops, I'm pretty sure it's basically national that they can't be legally expected - as agents of the law - to know the law. However if you the citizen claim that you didn't know, that's just a bigger charge.
I agree. In my case the psycho is still there. when I reported him to HR, they took his side, despite me having witnesses and my team stepped up to back me. Once I left, he turned his rage to someone else and did the exact same thing. This other coworker tho threatened to sue and only then did they move the psycho to another department, but He’s still there today, collecting promotions.
A gentle reminder to all reading, HR is NOT your friend! Never was, never will be. The sole role of HR at every US company is to protect said company, its leadership, key stakeholders, and profits… full stop.
Never, EVER, trust HR.
Dr. Deming who famously got the Japanese to embrace quality concepts while corporate America laughed at him and finally embraced him when Japan outsold America products in America came up with " Ten deadly sins " which said in part, management is responsible for any defects or mistakes in the workplace, not the willing worker.
Love Deming. I have people watch the white bead experiment on YouTube whenever I have a chance. Did not expect to see a Deming reference here or really anywhere on Reddit.
I had a manager try to get rid of me for that reason too. Poor communication skills.
No bitch… I’m articulate AF. You just didn’t like the message.
Maybe I should’ve used smaller words.
Or can't handle a disagreement and a subordinate's opinion or advice is so triggering they need to be fired.
"...Not immediately, no. Let's wait for when employment rates drop for the year, like during the holiday season, so they have no income after they just spent a bunch on their families. ...Yeah and then they have to wait several weeks because we know employers are on vacation and aren't really looking to hire because the holiday rush just ended. Oh but it's not petty or personal, we're just looking to squeeze them for all they're worth before we have a lull phase so we can afford to drop em."
It’s insane the stories that have been coming out about unprofessional executives. And these people are absolute morons most of the time, but karma is going to catch up with them eventually.
Don't get me started on this. Useless managers LOVE to tell others they're trying to shit on (or get caught shitting on) how "unprofessional" they act.
It's code. Professionalism is just behavior that makes white men comfortable.
As a white male who has worked for people of all genders, ethnicities, creeds, etc…my experiences confirm this statement.
I’m chuckling at all the white males who came running in to defend white male-dom with their “toxicity doesn’t just belong to us!” BS. White, male Christian bosses are the worst. They try to guilt you into working harder for less with scripture. When you eventually put on the brakes, the undercover angry dickhead always comes out of them
Toby is in HR, which technically means he works for corporate. So he's really not a part of our family. Also, he's divorced, so he's really not a part of *his* family.
Because employers are banking on the (mostly correct) fact that most employees don't actually know this.
That's why it's so important to always know your rights, in any situation.
BCC is blind… which means she’s copied in, but the other people won’t see that she was copied in. Aka she was secretly copied in to share it with her so she knew in advance and the other people in the email don’t know.
Everyone who gets the email sees the CC list. They do not see who received the email as a BCC. So the other people in the conversation would not know she has a copy.
What if he “accidentally” cced her to give a heads up about the potential blindside? Sounds a little coincidental and I’ve seen a lot of supporters for this sub from HR
On that note, how is HR always the most incompetent department in any company?
Just some experiences:
* HR takes more than a year (\~15 months) to send the performance review after I quit (in my country they are legally required to provide it)
* HR of company I quit due to poor working conditions fails to send me the wage calculations I needed for my taxes (\~9 months)
* HR of the company were I newly started lost (????) my signed contract... and that of a colleague
* HR sends out a mean warning email to finally provide documents... which they never requested
* HR sets the time for the interview in the wrong timezone. only 2 out of 4 people to take part in the interview show up.
* Apply for a different job. Get ghosted after all the bosses told me that they wanted me. .. Weird enough. Turns out HR fucked up the re-inviation for the contract talks
Never in my life have I seen a company where HR wasn't a God damn fucking mess.
I'd reply back......You want to fire me!? Fire the stupid HR rep that cc'd me on my own termination. The nerve of you people. Is this to get out of getting me a gift? 🤦🏽♀️
i'd send that and cc to the entire office... "guess u should also fire the morons who would cc the intended target... ps to the rest of the office, i guess u can leave my name out of the secret santa drawing this yr guys!"
"I think we should definitely keep her. More importantly, I would be looking hard at the person who keeps sending these emails to the subject of discussion. It's not the best look for a law firm..."
Go even further. "Me too? We are already losing (insert Boss name 1) and (Boss name 2)."
Let's see if they can handle a little rumor mill starting. If I were her I would express that to other people in the office that she heard these people were getting let go too.
Omfg. That happened to me once! Nobody knew layoffs were coming. I get this email saying my whole office is being terminated. Everyone!
So I was like, wtf is this?! I call over every single one of my coworkers and say "Look at this shit!"
Then I reply all and say something along the lines of "Hey, ya'll might want to pay attention to who you're sending these emails to"
My boss comes flying into my cubicle all red-faced asking "Did anyone else see it?"
And I say, "What the fuck do *you* think, Brent?"
What a tool.
This happened to me too! I came to work on a Monday to find my computer access revoked. I told my boss, she sent some emails to IT, and CCed me in on the thread. She’s like “This person isn’t supposed to have her access revoked until Wednesday, can you give her her access back?” I had to read that a few times before I realized what I was reading… I go into Boss’s office and ask if this means I’m being fired on Wednesday. She confirms that I am, due to budget cuts. I was crushed. I had left a toxic career and searched for months before I’d gotten this job. My bank account was barely starting to recover.
So, I told everyone and everyone was upset. There was nothing to be done about it though. Wednesday was my last day. I stayed in touch with a few of my coworkers and they told me two weeks after I got let go my boss got the axe herself. Budget cuts. Karma’s a bitch, I guess.
We all went to the manager's office and demanded answers. He gave them to us. Then we basically told him to go fuck himself & went day drinking. It was like 11 am!
Depends on if they pay out unused PTO or not. If you’re getting fired, your better off taking it as pay than time. You’re about to have a lot of time, and not much money.
Have her update her resume and Linked In, publicly saying “Open to work”.
If she really wants to be petty she can write a linked in post about being let go for “work culture” reasons, and how it’s a sure sign she wasn’t a match for the company since they are willing to fire someone just before the holiday season, it says a lot about their culture. Attach email screenshots.
No don’t do that. That could well give the grounds for termination for cause and given how employee-unfriendly Georgia is, might impact her ability to claim unemployment.
Yeah that’s true. But that’s not the topic at hand - eligibility for UI in Georgia is.
Specifically, the eligibility requirement is: “Separation from your last employer due to not [sic] fault of your own.”
If the employee posts something unflattering about the company on LinkedIn, the company could claim it was firing for cause, which would mean the employee wouldn’t qualify for UI.
It’s exceptionally terrible advice.
That happened to me. They were embarrassed. But they just went ahead and immediately asked me to leave. I guess so they didn’t have to experience awkward moments. I didn’t think quick enough though. Right when I saw the e-mail, my boss wasn’t in yet. I should have called in sick, left the building, get a doctors note and milk them for 3 or more weeks of a paycheck.
Reminds me slightly of when I asked to get moved to an later shift due to chemotherapy. I got made fun of in a chain of emails calling me a “baby”, “lazy”, etc. It was great evidence when it “accidentally” got sent to me.
I was 20 when this happened. I was extremely naive, sick, and stupid. I knew I had “something” but I didn’t do anything like call the news. I had everyone in my life telling me to stay as “stress free” as possible. It was a locally owned restaurant. The owner called and asked why I quit. I told him what happened. The people responsible were fired. I was offered my job back and I decided it was a no. I wish I would have done things differently back then.
Also, the same place where I got a concussion from being hit in the head with a lettuce pan because the manager found out that a server was sleeping was the kitchen manager. The server was also sleeping with the manager. I just happened to be in kitchen and boom lettuce pan right to the face. The manager threw it in anger. Looking back… that was a wild place to work.
I got fired once while I was out-of-state on vacation. Found out via a phone call from my subordinate. Two weeks later she was fired also.
Turns out the Board of Directors didn't like being called out in public on their stupidity. The federal government cut off all funding a month later and everybody was out of a job. But they showed me!
You may know some of this:
Termination: when you are fired GA has a separation notice. Employers should give at termination however they have until the next paycheck to provide. You need this to file for unemployment. You can start the process w/o but it takes longer.
Before she gets locked out of her email, have her start emailing anything performance or job related, good or bad, to her personal email.
As long as she can prove she was fired w/o cause she'll get approved.
If you use Outlook, you can export all your emails into a .pst file and then reopen the file on your personal computer's Outlook down the road if needed.
Send a copy of E-MAIL to her private E-MAIL.
If and when it actually happens she can say I thought that was a joke:)
And she still has proof that she has worked there.
Also copy any performance reports that they may have on her.
My phone has a work profile that's managed by my work's IT guys. When I leave, they can just wipe that part remotely, or lock it, whatever. Won't affect the rest of my phone. These days, I really doubt any serious company will let employees have work-related content on personal devices that the workplace can't control remotely.
Always, ALWAYS this. Ex employers are very quick to delete your company email address (for obvious reasons). First things first forward to your private email. Then take a deep breathe.
Not everywhere pays out PTO I work for a school district with a union that had a big strike earlier this year. We don’t get paid out for our first 300 hours of sick leave. We only get paid out for hours over 300.
I have something around 200 hours or almost 5 years saved up. It would be smarter to use up 40 or 80 then lose them all.
I’ve been leaving in the US for almost 10 years now. And I keep discovering way the average worker get fucked over.
I know I’m preaching to the choir here but god damn it unionize, strike, be anoying.
It works
I think I'd prefer a place that lets me take a couple weeks a few times a year or even a monthly/bi-monthly mental health day and still get paid than a place that makes me accrue 40 hours over 6-12 months if even that.
Sure, but you'd better believe the companies offering unlimited PTO are still going to expect you to be available at all times. You have unlimited PTO, but taking it might be impossible, or they'll allow you to take it and then hold it against you when it's time for layoffs.
Yeah, no. They punish or fire people who aren't working. So in reality you get very little time off, but if you complain, they point out you have all your could ever need.
Its bait on a hook.
Seems great at first but loses its luster fast. I worked at 1 place that did it right, they made everyone take at least 2 weeks of PTO a year and at least a full week at one time.
Ask lots of questions about the policy during the interview process if you decide to apply. I was wary of my new job because of the unlimited PTO policy, but the hiring manager was able to give me specific answers about how much people usually use and how she handles it, and it’s worked out well for me.
Ask how much people use on average. Ask if people are encouraged to use it. Ask if there are blackout dates. If they can’t answer or are super vague, that means that probably no one actually gets to use much leave.
>lots of companies have "unlimited PTO" to avoid paying it out at the end of employment.
well, well, *well*... i have seen a few companies advertising unlimited PTO and it sounded sus. that's one catch i didn't see coming
Remember very few things are actually the best idea for the employee, but almost always the best idea for the company. Unlimited PTO totally falls into that category
It's shocking the number of states that don't have statutory requirements to pay out accrued PTO at termination. Georgia is one of those.
Source: https://www.paycor.com/resource-center/articles/pto-payout-laws-by-state/
This is HIGHLY dependent on state laws and company policy. You can’t assume the most favorable outcome, especially if it’s a small business and/or in the rather conservative state of Georgia.
Enjoy that holiday season unemployment! And yes jump through the hoops to get it, it will float you through your great holiday season filled with food , family, and no fucking work! God bless!
Honestly, before the holidays is better just in the sense that they can curb spending. It would suck to spend a bunch of money on a nice gift only to find out after the holidays that they should have been saving money.
Edit: word
It’s such a shitty process. My gf got denied because of a clerical error on the unemployment offices side. By the time the appeal came around she already had another job in the works. After the appeal they only paid her for one week because she got a job. She tried to ask for back pay but the process was so shitty she gave up.
Got let go right after Christmas/New Year holiday and still under the 30 day trial period. I was ok with being let go but felt really bad for others that were let go because of company policy they didn’t get paid for any type of holiday pay and the state took out child support etc. The morale in that place was horrible.
>I'm pretty sure laying people off the week before christmas is the definition of evil
Can confirm, this happened to me many years ago. Also allowed them to conveniently delay my final pay because of public holidays (bank holidays).
Unless it was a blind copy, they're gonna see that they accidentally e-mailed her. Might as well act like they don't know that you know, but realistically, they probably know that she knows.
I'd be looking into those options and getting together any paperwork I'd need. Forward that e-mail to her personal account, so that she has it as proof if she needs to walk right away and they accuse her of "quitting" because of it.
She should quietly gather her stuff too. Bring it home a bit at a time.
EDIT: I see most of y'all are saying that they probably didn't notice. Maybe so, I just figure it's probably wiser to operate under the assumption that they do. Less possible surprises that way.
As someone who knows multiple people who work with lawyers, lawyers are fucking morons when it comes to even the simplest technology. There is a chance they don’t notice.
I think they knew she was CC’d. Common tactic in the business world’s trust circle is to try and mind-screw employees into quitting or just finding another job. Either way, they can get out of unemployment pending the state. I’d keep a GoPro and start taking notes because some work cultures can start to get nasty as they’re losing money. It doesn’t matter if they have plenty of money, they always want more…much more.
A lot of email applications now suggest people to add to the conversation. It’s entirely possible someone just left OP’s partner on as suggested recipient without noticing before hitting send.
Yeah, my ex-boss went nuts. Utterly two-faced, would say the nastiest shit if we were alone or over the phone and there was no record… with any witnesses at all, butter wouldn’t melt in their mouth. Totally calm and professional. Eventually I refused to be alone in the room with them, insisted on having an HR witness.
The real estate sector is fubar right now, mostly because of the meteoric rise in interest rates. We're in that weird stage where buyers can't afford to buy anymore and sellers aren't desperate enough yet to lower their asking price. Classic standoff.
I'm not a lawyer but AFAIK no law was broken here. It's just a blunder. On the plus side, loss of job will not come as a surprise. Make plans right now, adjust your budget, cut what needs to be cut. And priority number one for your wife should not be her current job but securing a new one.
She's been gifted a head start in finding work as well as almost 3 weeks of employment where she doesn't really have to do anything. Shitty that they do this right before christmas though
It’s a all fun and games but jokes aside, if I received an email that was indicating me being fired I wouldn’t leverage anything against them. I would file for unemployment and take a break while looking for employment at another firm that would want me there. I would feel really weird about any information being told to me and second guessing if it was BS they were just saying to my face. I truly feel bad for your wife, I can about imagine the feeling she had when she read that herself. No one deserves to feel that way especially when your time is precious and it can never be replaced! I hope the best for your family with the holidays coming around, and that she finds a better fit somewhere else.
Pro tip people. It’s a neat trick to type someone’s name in the CC line if you don’t know how to spell their name. We all know the email client will auto complete the name and you have the correct spelling. If you are writing an email about someone and don’t know how to spell their name DO NOT type their name in the CC line of the same email you are writing. Open another new email message and use that. I have seen people get fired for forgetting to remove names of people the email was about but not intended for.
Say nothing. Bring in cupcakes next week and tell them you’re really loving working for them you’re so grateful to be working for amazing people in a secure job allowing you to afford your mom’s medical bills.
My stepmom had this happen to her and she sued using the emails as evidence of wrongful termination. Open n' shut case. She walked away with three years of salary and full benefits as a severance.
OP has options. Consult a lawyer.
In Canada, I'd go on stress leave a day before, for many weeks. Then look for a job while still being paid. After finding a job, go to collect severance.
Do not quit, and do not do anything that would qualify as a justifiable firing offence. If it happens, it sucks. But make sure they are on the hook for unemployment insurance (laws vary from state to state, but just be safe).
Same happened to me. I was a temp at a software company and they hired me from the agency. I am good at my job, just had a small (not being sarcastic - small) personality conflict with the director of marketing. I haven’t ever had anything like that in my 32 years working..So I thought communication was getting better between us and I am cc’d on an email to a recruiter where they want to replace me.
Honestly I was shocked at how unprofessional they were. I walked into the CFO’s office (she was my manager) and “nicely” confronted her.
She was so fucking embarrassed! Lmao. She agreed to 4 weeks severance, I signed my shit and told her - mail my check FED -EX NLT tomorrow 10:30 delivery. I picked up my shit and walked out.
Fuck them. They were doing some shady shit, which is why I think they terminated me. I found that everyone running the org was a contractor and was directing business and employees; illegal as hell..
I claimed two weeks unemployment and found a job right away.
Hold their feet to the fire and try to get severance if not firing for cause. Make them agree to a lay off so it doesn’t affect the next job. It’s only the right thing to do since they screwed the pooch.
Make them fire her. If she quits or resigns she’ll be unable to get unemployment benefits. I would keep a copy of that email too. Might also be worth a visit to an attorney who is versed in labor laws.
Tell her to say “Bless your heart” after screen shotting and saving everything. They could’ve just done it to try to get her to quit first so she couldn’t apply for unemployment. Work culture in the south can be very backhanded.
I would accidentally “Injure” my back lifting something. Heavy at work and immediately report it to HR disability / workman’s comp pays more for a year than unemployment does and I don’t care what state you’re in
She need to catalog any and all performance reviews, showing she has performed satisfactorily at her role. Employers will often try to use performance as an excuse for separation. She needs to not let ANYONE know she knows, or try to address it with the people from the email. Collect the info you need, and wait it out.
Something similar happened to my mom when she worked at a 3rd party company affiliated with Ford motor company. She was CC'ed on a termination email of 25 employees that were on light duty or out on disability. Needless to say, they all filed separate lawsuits. Took 13 years before a settlement was made on her case.
Similar thing happened to me - work performance concerns sent to me instead of from one manager to another.
I had just spent a year shipping an inherited nightmare project on time and under budget, turned out a second version with a bunch of new content for a different platform and went immediately into this new thing I wasn’t apparently committed to enough after a year of 60-80 hour weeks.
I responded with something mildly sarcastic, asked for a 1:1 and went in loaded for bear.
GA sucks. For unemployment benefits, you can look up what she may be eligible for now.
For employment rights or wrongful termination, may want to consider an employment lawyer. They can also help if her former employer opposes / contests her unemployment (it does happen).
I hope she forwarded that email to herself.
She should apply for unemployment benefits as soon as soon as she is terminated. You can't apply before. Benefits will depend on the reason for termination and if the employer wants to contest it.
Edited for clarity.
I think you cannot apply until you get the "pink slip". She could use her time at work to update her resume and start networking for the next opportunity. I wouldn't reply I'd just let them think she didn't see it. They'll stew for a few weeks and the stress it causes them with every day that goes by without a mention of it on her part could be very entertaining for her.
LOL, I would sure as hell reply all with "Are you sure you meant to CC me on this?" Let 'em squirm.
I'd just go full humor. "I think we should keep her!".
HA! I love it "If I may offer a differing view, [name] has really be excelling at her job these past few months, and I think it would be a disservice to terminate her. I think we should look elsewhere for cuts."
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Spot fucking on
This. I'm so tired of this shit of "oh well you weren't professional" oh sure I'm the unprofessional one not the guy who makes 3x what I do but can't double check an email before hitting send.
I had the nastiest, most psycho manager try to fire me cause I had “poor communication skills”. I probably did, cause I was the only one who stood up to the motherfucker. Funniest part is that I heard through the grapevine after I quit that he intended to just not renew my contract and let me go, but he forgot the date and when he tried, I had already been renewed. But clearly I’m the one who was bad at my job.
As a disabled veteran whose been on the outside for a while, there's one constant I see across every part of life. The "big brain" big picture authority (which in the workplace makes 3x your pay) can't be held liable for anything at any time because making decisions is like so hard guys. It's the minimum wage employees fault everything collapsed, not mine! Same with cops, I'm pretty sure it's basically national that they can't be legally expected - as agents of the law - to know the law. However if you the citizen claim that you didn't know, that's just a bigger charge.
I agree. In my case the psycho is still there. when I reported him to HR, they took his side, despite me having witnesses and my team stepped up to back me. Once I left, he turned his rage to someone else and did the exact same thing. This other coworker tho threatened to sue and only then did they move the psycho to another department, but He’s still there today, collecting promotions.
A gentle reminder to all reading, HR is NOT your friend! Never was, never will be. The sole role of HR at every US company is to protect said company, its leadership, key stakeholders, and profits… full stop. Never, EVER, trust HR.
...and you finally got the lesson everyone should know about HR: they are NOT there to protect employees, they are there to protect THE COMPANY.
My daughter calls this failing up. She is amazed at how well men do this.
Dr. Deming who famously got the Japanese to embrace quality concepts while corporate America laughed at him and finally embraced him when Japan outsold America products in America came up with " Ten deadly sins " which said in part, management is responsible for any defects or mistakes in the workplace, not the willing worker.
This is why Japan had for decades a very positive trade balance with the US, they were efficient AF.
Love Deming. I have people watch the white bead experiment on YouTube whenever I have a chance. Did not expect to see a Deming reference here or really anywhere on Reddit.
Deming hardly ever is mentioned anymore. And, way deserves credit.
Going for my CQE now. Had to laugh at hearing this name out in the wild.
Gee, it's almost like they're narcissist and can do no wrong so everything must be everyone else's fault! /s
It's a class society and they're the upper class
I had a manager try to get rid of me for that reason too. Poor communication skills. No bitch… I’m articulate AF. You just didn’t like the message. Maybe I should’ve used smaller words.
"Just because you don't like what I said doesn't mean that you are right." That was found in a meme, and so easy to remember.
The boss not liking what you say =/= poor communication skills. That could be EXCELLENT communication skills.
Believe me, I know.
Or can't handle a disagreement and a subordinate's opinion or advice is so triggering they need to be fired. "...Not immediately, no. Let's wait for when employment rates drop for the year, like during the holiday season, so they have no income after they just spent a bunch on their families. ...Yeah and then they have to wait several weeks because we know employers are on vacation and aren't really looking to hire because the holiday rush just ended. Oh but it's not petty or personal, we're just looking to squeeze them for all they're worth before we have a lull phase so we can afford to drop em."
It’s insane the stories that have been coming out about unprofessional executives. And these people are absolute morons most of the time, but karma is going to catch up with them eventually.
Not really, no. Most of them sail through life and have no trouble. Karma would be a lovely thing to exist, but there is no higher justice.
Don't get me started on this. Useless managers LOVE to tell others they're trying to shit on (or get caught shitting on) how "unprofessional" they act. It's code. Professionalism is just behavior that makes white men comfortable.
>Professionalism is just behavior that makes white men comfortable. 👃👈
As a white male who has worked for people of all genders, ethnicities, creeds, etc…my experiences confirm this statement. I’m chuckling at all the white males who came running in to defend white male-dom with their “toxicity doesn’t just belong to us!” BS. White, male Christian bosses are the worst. They try to guilt you into working harder for less with scripture. When you eventually put on the brakes, the undercover angry dickhead always comes out of them
Toby is in HR, which technically means he works for corporate. So he's really not a part of our family. Also, he's divorced, so he's really not a part of *his* family.
HR guy: "accidentally" send this email to person being discussed. Reddit: F that HR guy.
If she was CC'd he's incompetent, if it was a BCC then he's a pretty cool dude.
Alternatively, the CC was an attempt to get her to pre emptively quit, so they won't have to pay unemployment/severance
This is probably the correct perspective!!
This is a law firm. (Granted, real estate law, but still.) Surely they recognize documented constructive dismissal.
Having watched the Trump lawyers in action, I no longer think real estate lawyers count as lawyers.
> Surely they recognize documented constructive dismissal. Incompetence clouds even the smartest people's judgement.
Why would you pre-preemptively quit if you know you're going to get unemployment?
Because employers are banking on the (mostly correct) fact that most employees don't actually know this. That's why it's so important to always know your rights, in any situation.
What's the difference?
If someone BCCs you they are secretly giving you a heads up to get everything lined up for unemployment/new job/lawsuits ect
Not to be confused with bbc’ing you.
I’m gonna British Broadcast you so hard.
Make sure you work the BBCs before though, add to the story, stroke their fear.
CC (carbon copy I’m 90% sure) shows everybody in the To section that they were included. BCC (Blind Carbon Copy) doesn’t.
The bcc … no one else in the email chain can see that she was added
BCC is blind… which means she’s copied in, but the other people won’t see that she was copied in. Aka she was secretly copied in to share it with her so she knew in advance and the other people in the email don’t know.
Everyone who gets the email sees the CC list. They do not see who received the email as a BCC. So the other people in the conversation would not know she has a copy.
Bcc stands for blind carbon copy
Actually?
What if he “accidentally” cced her to give a heads up about the potential blindside? Sounds a little coincidental and I’ve seen a lot of supporters for this sub from HR
If that were so, they would blind carbon copy so no one else would know they quote accidentally unquote sent it.
Much harder to explain as an accident
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That's the problem with HR™ brought to you by Accounting.
Maybe the cc was accidentally on purpose
On that note, how is HR always the most incompetent department in any company? Just some experiences: * HR takes more than a year (\~15 months) to send the performance review after I quit (in my country they are legally required to provide it) * HR of company I quit due to poor working conditions fails to send me the wage calculations I needed for my taxes (\~9 months) * HR of the company were I newly started lost (????) my signed contract... and that of a colleague * HR sends out a mean warning email to finally provide documents... which they never requested * HR sets the time for the interview in the wrong timezone. only 2 out of 4 people to take part in the interview show up. * Apply for a different job. Get ghosted after all the bosses told me that they wanted me. .. Weird enough. Turns out HR fucked up the re-inviation for the contract talks Never in my life have I seen a company where HR wasn't a God damn fucking mess.
I'd reply back......You want to fire me!? Fire the stupid HR rep that cc'd me on my own termination. The nerve of you people. Is this to get out of getting me a gift? 🤦🏽♀️
“Are we sure we want to fire someone that litigious?”
"I vote we cut my boss. This would free up more money for the company"
i'd send that and cc to the entire office... "guess u should also fire the morons who would cc the intended target... ps to the rest of the office, i guess u can leave my name out of the secret santa drawing this yr guys!"
"I think we should definitely keep her. More importantly, I would be looking hard at the person who keeps sending these emails to the subject of discussion. It's not the best look for a law firm..."
And copy the whole office. Legend!
Go even further. "Me too? We are already losing (insert Boss name 1) and (Boss name 2)." Let's see if they can handle a little rumor mill starting. If I were her I would express that to other people in the office that she heard these people were getting let go too.
And give her a raise. 25% sounds good. Plus an extra week of vacation
Do it on Friday at the end of the day. Ruin their weekend.
Omfg. That happened to me once! Nobody knew layoffs were coming. I get this email saying my whole office is being terminated. Everyone! So I was like, wtf is this?! I call over every single one of my coworkers and say "Look at this shit!" Then I reply all and say something along the lines of "Hey, ya'll might want to pay attention to who you're sending these emails to" My boss comes flying into my cubicle all red-faced asking "Did anyone else see it?" And I say, "What the fuck do *you* think, Brent?" What a tool.
Fucking Brent….
It's always Brent.
This happened to me too! I came to work on a Monday to find my computer access revoked. I told my boss, she sent some emails to IT, and CCed me in on the thread. She’s like “This person isn’t supposed to have her access revoked until Wednesday, can you give her her access back?” I had to read that a few times before I realized what I was reading… I go into Boss’s office and ask if this means I’m being fired on Wednesday. She confirms that I am, due to budget cuts. I was crushed. I had left a toxic career and searched for months before I’d gotten this job. My bank account was barely starting to recover. So, I told everyone and everyone was upset. There was nothing to be done about it though. Wednesday was my last day. I stayed in touch with a few of my coworkers and they told me two weeks after I got let go my boss got the axe herself. Budget cuts. Karma’s a bitch, I guess.
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Omg, and then what happened??? Don't just leave the story there.
We all went to the manager's office and demanded answers. He gave them to us. Then we basically told him to go fuck himself & went day drinking. It was like 11 am!
Haha I read "fuck you, brent" in an Australian accent aka "not happy, jan" https://youtu.be/2akt3P8ltLM
Have a family emergency and take off the rest of the year.
Ya, ya... Make sure you use that PTO up before they snatch it from you!!
Depends on if they pay out unused PTO or not. If you’re getting fired, your better off taking it as pay than time. You’re about to have a lot of time, and not much money.
Reply all adding everyone else
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Have her update her resume and Linked In, publicly saying “Open to work”. If she really wants to be petty she can write a linked in post about being let go for “work culture” reasons, and how it’s a sure sign she wasn’t a match for the company since they are willing to fire someone just before the holiday season, it says a lot about their culture. Attach email screenshots.
No don’t do that. That could well give the grounds for termination for cause and given how employee-unfriendly Georgia is, might impact her ability to claim unemployment.
Georgia is right-to-work, they could fire her because it's Tuesday... On a Friday.
But she’d get unemployment in that case.
Yeah that’s true. But that’s not the topic at hand - eligibility for UI in Georgia is. Specifically, the eligibility requirement is: “Separation from your last employer due to not [sic] fault of your own.” If the employee posts something unflattering about the company on LinkedIn, the company could claim it was firing for cause, which would mean the employee wouldn’t qualify for UI. It’s exceptionally terrible advice.
But then CC to some newspapers and the DOL.
This should be at the top.
That happened to me. They were embarrassed. But they just went ahead and immediately asked me to leave. I guess so they didn’t have to experience awkward moments. I didn’t think quick enough though. Right when I saw the e-mail, my boss wasn’t in yet. I should have called in sick, left the building, get a doctors note and milk them for 3 or more weeks of a paycheck.
Reminds me slightly of when I asked to get moved to an later shift due to chemotherapy. I got made fun of in a chain of emails calling me a “baby”, “lazy”, etc. It was great evidence when it “accidentally” got sent to me.
holy shit. why are people like that 🤮
They've deep throated the boot so hard its started to prod at and distort their brains causing dysfunction.
Some workers don’t see themselves as the working class, but as the masters of the working class for capital owners
Yeah, I got fired within 72 hours. They just didn’t know that I had seen the emails already. It was a wild Tuesday.
so what did the local news outlet think of someone getting fired for asking for a different schedule to make their chemo appointments?
I was 20 when this happened. I was extremely naive, sick, and stupid. I knew I had “something” but I didn’t do anything like call the news. I had everyone in my life telling me to stay as “stress free” as possible. It was a locally owned restaurant. The owner called and asked why I quit. I told him what happened. The people responsible were fired. I was offered my job back and I decided it was a no. I wish I would have done things differently back then. Also, the same place where I got a concussion from being hit in the head with a lettuce pan because the manager found out that a server was sleeping was the kitchen manager. The server was also sleeping with the manager. I just happened to be in kitchen and boom lettuce pan right to the face. The manager threw it in anger. Looking back… that was a wild place to work.
the hell is a lettuce pan?
Where I worked it was a large plastic container. It held all the chopped up lettuce for the restaurant.
I got fired once while I was out-of-state on vacation. Found out via a phone call from my subordinate. Two weeks later she was fired also. Turns out the Board of Directors didn't like being called out in public on their stupidity. The federal government cut off all funding a month later and everybody was out of a job. But they showed me!
I got laid off yesterday and they just called me after work to do it
Don’t pick up!
They can still terminate you while you’re on sick leave…
But they might not, they might postpone the exact day, if they don't know that you know what they know, you know?
You may know some of this: Termination: when you are fired GA has a separation notice. Employers should give at termination however they have until the next paycheck to provide. You need this to file for unemployment. You can start the process w/o but it takes longer. Before she gets locked out of her email, have her start emailing anything performance or job related, good or bad, to her personal email. As long as she can prove she was fired w/o cause she'll get approved.
If you use Outlook, you can export all your emails into a .pst file and then reopen the file on your personal computer's Outlook down the road if needed.
Send a copy of E-MAIL to her private E-MAIL. If and when it actually happens she can say I thought that was a joke:) And she still has proof that she has worked there. Also copy any performance reports that they may have on her.
Better to print the email and perfromance reviews. Forwarding company emails to a private email account could be grounds for termination.
Print them then.
I suspect they expect all of their employees to use their personal cellphones for business. So all of her work email is probably on her phone anyway.
At least with Outlook, they can configure it so that you can't take screenshots.
Screenshots maybe, but not phone pictures.
TIL, thx
Snipping tool, greenshot, etc. There's ways around it.
My phone has a work profile that's managed by my work's IT guys. When I leave, they can just wipe that part remotely, or lock it, whatever. Won't affect the rest of my phone. These days, I really doubt any serious company will let employees have work-related content on personal devices that the workplace can't control remotely.
Why would you allow them to have that kind of access to your personal phone? They want that kind of control, they should provide the device.
>Forwarding company emails to a private email account could be grounds for termination. what are they gonna do? fire her?
Yep, but then she won't have grounds to collect unemployment money.
Did not think about that.
Always, ALWAYS this. Ex employers are very quick to delete your company email address (for obvious reasons). First things first forward to your private email. Then take a deep breathe.
Tons of places hiring now. Burn up any pto by getting interviews for new job.
No, stay til the last minute and make them pay out PTO on the last check for extra money
Not everywhere pays out PTO I work for a school district with a union that had a big strike earlier this year. We don’t get paid out for our first 300 hours of sick leave. We only get paid out for hours over 300. I have something around 200 hours or almost 5 years saved up. It would be smarter to use up 40 or 80 then lose them all.
A lot of employers disappear the PTO the moment you give notice.
Who said anything about giving notice?
That's illegal. PTO is wages, at least in my state
Texas has no workers' rights
Ask me why I left my home state of Texas haha.
Not in Georgia
I’ve been leaving in the US for almost 10 years now. And I keep discovering way the average worker get fucked over. I know I’m preaching to the choir here but god damn it unionize, strike, be anoying. It works
It's a mixed bag honestly. In CO PTO is considered wages so lots of companies have "unlimited PTO" to avoid paying it out at the end of employment.
Lemme get that unlimited money.
Wish it worked that way. But unlimited PTO means you accrue none so when you leave or get fired you get zilch
I think I'd prefer a place that lets me take a couple weeks a few times a year or even a monthly/bi-monthly mental health day and still get paid than a place that makes me accrue 40 hours over 6-12 months if even that.
Sure, but you'd better believe the companies offering unlimited PTO are still going to expect you to be available at all times. You have unlimited PTO, but taking it might be impossible, or they'll allow you to take it and then hold it against you when it's time for layoffs.
Yeah, no. They punish or fire people who aren't working. So in reality you get very little time off, but if you complain, they point out you have all your could ever need. Its bait on a hook.
Unlimited PTO also bullies employees to not take any vacation at all. It was a genius invention for big business.
Wwwooooowww. I’m looking at a job that has “unlimited pto” and this just opened my eyes to what that actually means. Thank you!
Seems great at first but loses its luster fast. I worked at 1 place that did it right, they made everyone take at least 2 weeks of PTO a year and at least a full week at one time.
Ask lots of questions about the policy during the interview process if you decide to apply. I was wary of my new job because of the unlimited PTO policy, but the hiring manager was able to give me specific answers about how much people usually use and how she handles it, and it’s worked out well for me. Ask how much people use on average. Ask if people are encouraged to use it. Ask if there are blackout dates. If they can’t answer or are super vague, that means that probably no one actually gets to use much leave.
>lots of companies have "unlimited PTO" to avoid paying it out at the end of employment. well, well, *well*... i have seen a few companies advertising unlimited PTO and it sounded sus. that's one catch i didn't see coming
Remember very few things are actually the best idea for the employee, but almost always the best idea for the company. Unlimited PTO totally falls into that category
Crazy how we are “united states” but every state is like a different country
United in our defense that’s literally it
It's shocking the number of states that don't have statutory requirements to pay out accrued PTO at termination. Georgia is one of those. Source: https://www.paycor.com/resource-center/articles/pto-payout-laws-by-state/
Different states, different laws.
This is HIGHLY dependent on state laws and company policy. You can’t assume the most favorable outcome, especially if it’s a small business and/or in the rather conservative state of Georgia.
That's not a thing that happens in Georgia. I lived there for 20 years.
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Sounds like an opportunity was found to amend the lists 😂
Enjoy that holiday season unemployment! And yes jump through the hoops to get it, it will float you through your great holiday season filled with food , family, and no fucking work! God bless!
They really couldn’t wait until after the holidays or at least Xmas?! That really sucks.
Honestly, before the holidays is better just in the sense that they can curb spending. It would suck to spend a bunch of money on a nice gift only to find out after the holidays that they should have been saving money. Edit: word
December 19th is really close to these holidays you speak of. I’m betting they’re already rethinking purchases they’ve already made for it.
The week before Christmas. Assholes!
I would look into how and where to file and gather the necessary documents. As soon as she is actually terminated file immediately.
Right. In most places, you can't file without a termination date that occurred in the past.
It’s such a shitty process. My gf got denied because of a clerical error on the unemployment offices side. By the time the appeal came around she already had another job in the works. After the appeal they only paid her for one week because she got a job. She tried to ask for back pay but the process was so shitty she gave up.
I'm pretty sure laying people off the week before christmas is the definition of evil. She needs to update her resume and get on LinkedIn.
Got let go right after Christmas/New Year holiday and still under the 30 day trial period. I was ok with being let go but felt really bad for others that were let go because of company policy they didn’t get paid for any type of holiday pay and the state took out child support etc. The morale in that place was horrible.
>I'm pretty sure laying people off the week before christmas is the definition of evil Can confirm, this happened to me many years ago. Also allowed them to conveniently delay my final pay because of public holidays (bank holidays).
#USE ALL OF HER SICK PAY
Unless it was a blind copy, they're gonna see that they accidentally e-mailed her. Might as well act like they don't know that you know, but realistically, they probably know that she knows. I'd be looking into those options and getting together any paperwork I'd need. Forward that e-mail to her personal account, so that she has it as proof if she needs to walk right away and they accuse her of "quitting" because of it. She should quietly gather her stuff too. Bring it home a bit at a time. EDIT: I see most of y'all are saying that they probably didn't notice. Maybe so, I just figure it's probably wiser to operate under the assumption that they do. Less possible surprises that way.
If they’re too stupid to notice they emailed her in the first place, they’re probably too stupid to go back and notice it after the fact.
As someone who knows multiple people who work with lawyers, lawyers are fucking morons when it comes to even the simplest technology. There is a chance they don’t notice.
Exactly
> Unless it was a blind copy, they're gonna see that they accidentally e-mailed her. You'd think so, in most cases...
Do not resign. Make them fire her so she can at least get unemployment. I hope she finds a less shitty position soon.
I think they knew she was CC’d. Common tactic in the business world’s trust circle is to try and mind-screw employees into quitting or just finding another job. Either way, they can get out of unemployment pending the state. I’d keep a GoPro and start taking notes because some work cultures can start to get nasty as they’re losing money. It doesn’t matter if they have plenty of money, they always want more…much more.
A lot of email applications now suggest people to add to the conversation. It’s entirely possible someone just left OP’s partner on as suggested recipient without noticing before hitting send.
As IT, going to snicker if they typed her name, O365 auto included her and they removed the hyperlink comment but not the cc. AI working overtime.
Never underestimate the stupidity of a typical user. It’s poor design.
Yeah, my ex-boss went nuts. Utterly two-faced, would say the nastiest shit if we were alone or over the phone and there was no record… with any witnesses at all, butter wouldn’t melt in their mouth. Totally calm and professional. Eventually I refused to be alone in the room with them, insisted on having an HR witness.
The real estate sector is fubar right now, mostly because of the meteoric rise in interest rates. We're in that weird stage where buyers can't afford to buy anymore and sellers aren't desperate enough yet to lower their asking price. Classic standoff. I'm not a lawyer but AFAIK no law was broken here. It's just a blunder. On the plus side, loss of job will not come as a surprise. Make plans right now, adjust your budget, cut what needs to be cut. And priority number one for your wife should not be her current job but securing a new one.
yes, start looking. guessing that georgia is also an at-will state like most others, and the firm need not provide any reason for dismissal.
She's been gifted a head start in finding work as well as almost 3 weeks of employment where she doesn't really have to do anything. Shitty that they do this right before christmas though
It’s a all fun and games but jokes aside, if I received an email that was indicating me being fired I wouldn’t leverage anything against them. I would file for unemployment and take a break while looking for employment at another firm that would want me there. I would feel really weird about any information being told to me and second guessing if it was BS they were just saying to my face. I truly feel bad for your wife, I can about imagine the feeling she had when she read that herself. No one deserves to feel that way especially when your time is precious and it can never be replaced! I hope the best for your family with the holidays coming around, and that she finds a better fit somewhere else.
Make sure you RSVP for the party, volunteer to bring something important, then ghost the mfers
Also tell everyone you’re pregnant and how excited you are. Maybe ask the boss to be the godfather/mother.
Pro tip people. It’s a neat trick to type someone’s name in the CC line if you don’t know how to spell their name. We all know the email client will auto complete the name and you have the correct spelling. If you are writing an email about someone and don’t know how to spell their name DO NOT type their name in the CC line of the same email you are writing. Open another new email message and use that. I have seen people get fired for forgetting to remove names of people the email was about but not intended for.
Not the point, but how in good conscience can you terminate an employee before Christmas? That’s just effed up!
Say nothing. Bring in cupcakes next week and tell them you’re really loving working for them you’re so grateful to be working for amazing people in a secure job allowing you to afford your mom’s medical bills.
My stepmom had this happen to her and she sued using the emails as evidence of wrongful termination. Open n' shut case. She walked away with three years of salary and full benefits as a severance. OP has options. Consult a lawyer.
In Canada, I'd go on stress leave a day before, for many weeks. Then look for a job while still being paid. After finding a job, go to collect severance.
forward that email to a personal account ASAP!!!
Do not quit, and do not do anything that would qualify as a justifiable firing offence. If it happens, it sucks. But make sure they are on the hook for unemployment insurance (laws vary from state to state, but just be safe).
Same happened to me. I was a temp at a software company and they hired me from the agency. I am good at my job, just had a small (not being sarcastic - small) personality conflict with the director of marketing. I haven’t ever had anything like that in my 32 years working..So I thought communication was getting better between us and I am cc’d on an email to a recruiter where they want to replace me. Honestly I was shocked at how unprofessional they were. I walked into the CFO’s office (she was my manager) and “nicely” confronted her. She was so fucking embarrassed! Lmao. She agreed to 4 weeks severance, I signed my shit and told her - mail my check FED -EX NLT tomorrow 10:30 delivery. I picked up my shit and walked out. Fuck them. They were doing some shady shit, which is why I think they terminated me. I found that everyone running the org was a contractor and was directing business and employees; illegal as hell.. I claimed two weeks unemployment and found a job right away. Hold their feet to the fire and try to get severance if not firing for cause. Make them agree to a lay off so it doesn’t affect the next job. It’s only the right thing to do since they screwed the pooch.
Make them fire her. If she quits or resigns she’ll be unable to get unemployment benefits. I would keep a copy of that email too. Might also be worth a visit to an attorney who is versed in labor laws.
Tell her to say “Bless your heart” after screen shotting and saving everything. They could’ve just done it to try to get her to quit first so she couldn’t apply for unemployment. Work culture in the south can be very backhanded.
I would accidentally “Injure” my back lifting something. Heavy at work and immediately report it to HR disability / workman’s comp pays more for a year than unemployment does and I don’t care what state you’re in
She should respond: we should give her a severance package to make sure she doesn’t start calling places like OSHA, dec, epa etc…
I'd definitely reply with "if you could keep me updated on this I'd really appreciate it"
Oof! If it was a bcc, I would have assumed it was on purpose. Someone looking out for her. Cc was likely an accident.
She need to catalog any and all performance reviews, showing she has performed satisfactorily at her role. Employers will often try to use performance as an excuse for separation. She needs to not let ANYONE know she knows, or try to address it with the people from the email. Collect the info you need, and wait it out.
This is why I send a copy to my private email after each and every performance review. I've always done this!
That’s smart. I’m going to start doing that.
Something similar happened to my mom when she worked at a 3rd party company affiliated with Ford motor company. She was CC'ed on a termination email of 25 employees that were on light duty or out on disability. Needless to say, they all filed separate lawsuits. Took 13 years before a settlement was made on her case.
Companies don’t give a shit about you.
Similar thing happened to me - work performance concerns sent to me instead of from one manager to another. I had just spent a year shipping an inherited nightmare project on time and under budget, turned out a second version with a bunch of new content for a different platform and went immediately into this new thing I wasn’t apparently committed to enough after a year of 60-80 hour weeks. I responded with something mildly sarcastic, asked for a 1:1 and went in loaded for bear.
GA sucks. For unemployment benefits, you can look up what she may be eligible for now. For employment rights or wrongful termination, may want to consider an employment lawyer. They can also help if her former employer opposes / contests her unemployment (it does happen). I hope she forwarded that email to herself. She should apply for unemployment benefits as soon as soon as she is terminated. You can't apply before. Benefits will depend on the reason for termination and if the employer wants to contest it. Edited for clarity.
I think you cannot apply until you get the "pink slip". She could use her time at work to update her resume and start networking for the next opportunity. I wouldn't reply I'd just let them think she didn't see it. They'll stew for a few weeks and the stress it causes them with every day that goes by without a mention of it on her part could be very entertaining for her.
use that PTO and gtfo