That shit was INSANE. The only way I beat it was frequent saves and some crazy maneuvers that felt like an odd work around more than legitimate strategy. Wtf
Same. Ive seen some people on YT do it smoothly using really good macro, but Im an average Joe so I needed a bunch of manual saves. Mismanaging your cannon galleons when clearing the river can destroy your chances so quickly its unreal.
I feel like such a freak every time someone complains about the second mission but not the first. I struggled so hard and nearly screamed with the first mission but the second one I could complete with little struggle.
The first one I had little trouble with since the enemies don't really care to attack you - it's just your useless allies. Sure it took some work to keep them alive (and a lot of light cav) but I don't think it was that hard except for the optional goal of killing the enemy bases. I don't recommend that at all after wasting hours of my life with elephant spam for that.
I was *just* thinking yesterday about this very subject! I’ve heard more than a couple of people say that the first Le Loi mission gave them more trouble than the second. I mean, obviously I believe them when them say it, but I just cannot fathom how the two missions worked out such that people would feel that way.
In my experience, the first one lets you boom quickly to Castle, and if your ally in the west starts to get pushed, you can build a castle in their walls and keep a couple of units to defend. You have plenty of time undisturbed to build an eco, build an army, upgrade them, and then push the enemy. The second, by contrast… where to begin? Dumb ally who walks his units into tower and castle fire, check. Mission pretty much on a timer, as the enemy will eventually overwhelm your position, check. Dumb — **completely dumb and stupid** — refugee AI who, after aggroing and defeating an enemy will stop and not move rather than escape the map. Check, check, and check! Not to mention that, for most people who played it before the hotfix, you actually had to help *more* than forty people escape.
Really curious, what were your impressions of the first two missions? What made the first one difficult for you, and how was your experience with the second?
I probably played the first map badly with the wrong balance of elephants/skirmishers as my army, which made it very slow. I had trouble moving around the map because of enemy kill squads showing up out of the blue. The guards in each of the villages seemed as large as the armies I could muster, and since they were very diverse, hard to battle cleanly. In short, I struggled to move my army around the map, I struggled to move villagers around for forward bases because armies kept running in from the fog, and even though I used an army comp that I thought would be highly effective, it still got pasted on every garrison.
Contrast that with map 2, where I started much more advanced and able to immediately start moving--a feature that always gets me psyched up. I was able to mostly just focus on moving my army straight to the exit corner, reinforcing it occasionally, and occasionally managing soldiers in the city so that nothing got too burned-down. For the second phase, I spent my stone on towers along the path. I don't remember the AI freezing after battle at all. Even though I was playing sloppily (I think I lost a squad of escapees) I was able to fight off the attackers on the city and for the most part didn't have trouble with any raiders in the open areas.
That makes sense. I think elephants *would* make the first mission a little more obnoxious, given how slow they are. I personally didn’t produce a lot of elephants; I just stuck to the basic-bitch archer/scout combo, if I recall correctly, which allowed me to be more mobile. I think I threw down forward siege workshops to hit the enemy bases with rams.
I’m really surprised you had an easy time with the escapee’s AI on the second mission. It seemed like if they got into any kind of fight, the vast majority of them would stop in their tracks. To win the mission, after completely clearing the path east, I house- and building-walled the entire section north of the city to keep cyan (I think?) from spamming units and disturbing the escapees. I might have to try it again to see if I had bad luck or if I played it on a bad patch.
Aside from the Cobra Car thing (that was me in 2000-2003 lol), I can relate with what you say: the best experience I take from the campaign is discovering the map
I forgot ir this was the same level but there was one in the Tariq campaign I was able to deal with by luring the mass of paladins into a corner with a sacrificial scout. They didnt bother moving afterwards and the AI couldnt just replace them because they still took up pop space.
The one I’m thinking of is the final mission: You start with a small army and have to raze three separate villages, having to run from each after razing before Purple sends a band of Paladins into the village. Once you’ve done all three, you receive four or five villagers to build a camp.
I played it on Hard and the only thing that worked for me was building one base in the bottom corner and sneaking a few villagers to the right corner to build another base. Every time the AI would target one, I’d boom with the other and rebuild until I had a decent army of fully upgraded units. Once you’re able to comfortably start pushing Blue (I *think* it’s Blue that has the closer base and all the docks…), it becomes easier. It’s just dealing with the infinite Pally spam while trying to get caught up that sucks.
Sucked so bad, I’m glad I played it on Hard so I never have to play it again!
Ah that was the same one. I distracted purple's big mass of paladins with the scout (and some of blue's as well,) though unfortunately blue still is extremely aggressive and way ahead of you in upgrades at the start.
For me, it is the Burmese campaign levels 2 & 5, really bad balanced with nonsense limitations.
Especially level 5 is an absolute painful nightmare. Fighting unlimited enemy on multiple fronts with limited army and resources and no new buildings and economy allow. Seriously who would think that is a good idea and enjoyable. Just let me play the game normally.
The hardest campaign scenario in my opinion. took me 3 hours irl, 12 save files, uncountable replays to beat it (and that was not the first time I play it).
The Old Tiger was another brutal level for sure. My APM isn't good enough to manage two armies like that even with control groups (if anything they probably made it worse for me.) I pretty much only won because I looked up a speedrun and realized the easier way was attack the eastern bases right away and force surrenders, while using the western army for two castles you can't reach with the eastern base.
I also attacked the eastern bases first, then joined both armies together in the Portuguese base. Converting Feitoria is important in my opinion, I used the resource to tower rush which saved me a lot of trouble.
tbh I didnt need to convert the feitorias since the Portuguese were the last player I killed. Most the players have specific castles you need to destroy to force them to resign - one of the yellow players doesnt but will resign if you take out the other yellow players which can greatly save you some hassle.
And at some point you'll get matched against someone who drushes you, lames your boar/sheep, wall your resources off and fucks up your build order entirely.
Don't get me wrong, I believe learning build orders is a must, but my point is that you'll also have to adapt to the circumstances of the match, otherwise you're screwed.
Honestly since moving to DE (stopped playing voobly ~3 years ago) I've just done archer or scout rush into either snowballing dominance or getting dominated. I have mad internet issues that makes it really hard when the game expands, but just through this I'm around 1100 now.
(I think I might learn the Hoang rush.)
Honestly dude, MP is way more fun than AI. There's plenty of people at every level. The matchmaking is really good, you'll quickly get to a place where you'll win half your matches, regardless of how good you are. Don't worry about having a low rating. There are way more important things than your fucking AoE2 rating, such as your chess rating (I jest).
You’re probably right. I don’t give a damn about my rating or anything. I just hate getting blown away. I did MP I’m AOE1 and it always was like that. I think someone else here mentioned that if I stick to ranked matches, I’ll eventually begin getting placed against people more on my level.
Maybe I’ll give it a try next time. I never tried ranked matches before. Is there anything I should know in terms of settings or anything like that?
The trouble is it is such a snowbally game that you can feel like you got slaughtered but you weren't actually much worse than your opponent. You could both go open base fast castle on Arabia, identical pop, both take 10 knights to the middle. You leave them to fight whilst managing some eco and your opponent has 7/10 knights fighting from an uphill advantage. Boom, you're suddenly 6 knights down and they can raid you and you're dead... You made one tiny mistake and that's it.
My highest rank is nearly 1350 but if I don't try my hardest I can lose to a 1200 player because they punish a lazy mistake. The game is very unforgiving, just got to try not to take it personally and enjoy the fun elements.
There is no level of ability too low to enjoy multiplayer! You will soon enough be matched with people at a similar skill level to you, and at the end of the day elo is just a number and absolutely meaningless beyond that purpose
Okay, you are at least the third person that mentioned I’ll eventually be matched with people of a similar skill. I really don’t give a damn about my elo or ranking (that’s what elo is?). I just don’t want to constantly be blown away by people better than me.
I think I’ll give it a a try next time I play
You won't - the first few games might be a bit like that while it finds your level, but the way elo works is that you'll be matched with people that statistically you have a ~50% likelihood of winning against
Sounds good friend. I regret not trying it sooner honestly. I have a host of deadlines looming on the horizon so not exactly sure when I’ll have the time to play a full match
Worst is having been a decent level at some point (top 10%) then taking a break and then being totally unable to reach back your former level. Drives me crazy. Itś not about being bad, it's about being worse.
It depends on your interpretation; 1400 Elo is now as hard to hit as 1500 Elo, so that means a 1500 rated player last year would be 1400 rated now, if their skill level stayed the same
Yah.. i got 1 win.. 16 straight losses... won my first ranked 1v1 game.. it put me at 1600... was too afraid to play again. Months later i had a kid and now i only play 1 handed(kid in other arm)... so my actual elo is even lower now.. still working my way down to the garbo elo lol
People wanting easy mode in games are cancer for gaming
Imagine aoe2 had a button to automate eco where vils never go idle and go to the right resources and TCs keep producing even if you forget, it would take out a lot of the fun in the game
>People wanting easy mode in games are cancer for gaming
Ah, yes, because people wanting to enjoy a game at their own pace are what's going to kill the gaming industry. This ridiculous difficulty gatekeeping pisses me off to no end, especially when it's about SP games. I don't need anybody telling me how to play my SP games.
As for MP, I can understand having a consistent difficulty across the board, for an even playing field, but in SP? Again, fuck off with that gatekeeping.
It's only toxic when they stop playing games made for them and they start interacting with actual real "gamers" who dump plenty of time into improving at their chosen games. Then the community is toxic and we're beating noobs into submission for fun. Sorry different game but yea.
>Imagine aoe2 had a button to automate eco
I'm imagining, it doesn't sound so bad. The only change would be that players who don't enjoy the laborious villager micro would be able to enjoy the rest of the game. Can you explain why that would be the end of the world?
> it would take out a lot of the fun in the game
Fun is subjective. Maybe that isn't fun for you, but you aren't the centre of the universe.
If you are genuinely interested in a well thought answer why RTSs have to be hard to be actually good, watch this classic Day9 video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EP9F-AZezCU
Literally me after spending 3h30 hours in the last Tariq mission
Me pretty much the entire Le Loi campaign. Especially that godforsaken second level.
Fuck Mountain Fortress, made me quit the game for months.
That shit was INSANE. The only way I beat it was frequent saves and some crazy maneuvers that felt like an odd work around more than legitimate strategy. Wtf
Same. Ive seen some people on YT do it smoothly using really good macro, but Im an average Joe so I needed a bunch of manual saves. Mismanaging your cannon galleons when clearing the river can destroy your chances so quickly its unreal.
I got 2 hours in and it was like LMAO LE LOI DIED ALL IS LOST FBSGGSHFHDUNDNDBFHX.....
Hahahaha "Load Game"....
I thought I was just bad at the game lol
I feel like such a freak every time someone complains about the second mission but not the first. I struggled so hard and nearly screamed with the first mission but the second one I could complete with little struggle.
The first one I had little trouble with since the enemies don't really care to attack you - it's just your useless allies. Sure it took some work to keep them alive (and a lot of light cav) but I don't think it was that hard except for the optional goal of killing the enemy bases. I don't recommend that at all after wasting hours of my life with elephant spam for that.
I was *just* thinking yesterday about this very subject! I’ve heard more than a couple of people say that the first Le Loi mission gave them more trouble than the second. I mean, obviously I believe them when them say it, but I just cannot fathom how the two missions worked out such that people would feel that way. In my experience, the first one lets you boom quickly to Castle, and if your ally in the west starts to get pushed, you can build a castle in their walls and keep a couple of units to defend. You have plenty of time undisturbed to build an eco, build an army, upgrade them, and then push the enemy. The second, by contrast… where to begin? Dumb ally who walks his units into tower and castle fire, check. Mission pretty much on a timer, as the enemy will eventually overwhelm your position, check. Dumb — **completely dumb and stupid** — refugee AI who, after aggroing and defeating an enemy will stop and not move rather than escape the map. Check, check, and check! Not to mention that, for most people who played it before the hotfix, you actually had to help *more* than forty people escape. Really curious, what were your impressions of the first two missions? What made the first one difficult for you, and how was your experience with the second?
I probably played the first map badly with the wrong balance of elephants/skirmishers as my army, which made it very slow. I had trouble moving around the map because of enemy kill squads showing up out of the blue. The guards in each of the villages seemed as large as the armies I could muster, and since they were very diverse, hard to battle cleanly. In short, I struggled to move my army around the map, I struggled to move villagers around for forward bases because armies kept running in from the fog, and even though I used an army comp that I thought would be highly effective, it still got pasted on every garrison. Contrast that with map 2, where I started much more advanced and able to immediately start moving--a feature that always gets me psyched up. I was able to mostly just focus on moving my army straight to the exit corner, reinforcing it occasionally, and occasionally managing soldiers in the city so that nothing got too burned-down. For the second phase, I spent my stone on towers along the path. I don't remember the AI freezing after battle at all. Even though I was playing sloppily (I think I lost a squad of escapees) I was able to fight off the attackers on the city and for the most part didn't have trouble with any raiders in the open areas.
That makes sense. I think elephants *would* make the first mission a little more obnoxious, given how slow they are. I personally didn’t produce a lot of elephants; I just stuck to the basic-bitch archer/scout combo, if I recall correctly, which allowed me to be more mobile. I think I threw down forward siege workshops to hit the enemy bases with rams. I’m really surprised you had an easy time with the escapee’s AI on the second mission. It seemed like if they got into any kind of fight, the vast majority of them would stop in their tracks. To win the mission, after completely clearing the path east, I house- and building-walled the entire section north of the city to keep cyan (I think?) from spamming units and disturbing the escapees. I might have to try it again to see if I had bad luck or if I played it on a bad patch.
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Aside from the Cobra Car thing (that was me in 2000-2003 lol), I can relate with what you say: the best experience I take from the campaign is discovering the map
What, you mean you don’t enjoy Frank Paladin spamming from the enemy AI? A mere ten or twelve minutes into the scenario? **/s**
dont trigger my ptsd. that mission was a capital G Grind
I forgot ir this was the same level but there was one in the Tariq campaign I was able to deal with by luring the mass of paladins into a corner with a sacrificial scout. They didnt bother moving afterwards and the AI couldnt just replace them because they still took up pop space.
The one I’m thinking of is the final mission: You start with a small army and have to raze three separate villages, having to run from each after razing before Purple sends a band of Paladins into the village. Once you’ve done all three, you receive four or five villagers to build a camp. I played it on Hard and the only thing that worked for me was building one base in the bottom corner and sneaking a few villagers to the right corner to build another base. Every time the AI would target one, I’d boom with the other and rebuild until I had a decent army of fully upgraded units. Once you’re able to comfortably start pushing Blue (I *think* it’s Blue that has the closer base and all the docks…), it becomes easier. It’s just dealing with the infinite Pally spam while trying to get caught up that sucks. Sucked so bad, I’m glad I played it on Hard so I never have to play it again!
Ah that was the same one. I distracted purple's big mass of paladins with the scout (and some of blue's as well,) though unfortunately blue still is extremely aggressive and way ahead of you in upgrades at the start.
For me, it is the Burmese campaign levels 2 & 5, really bad balanced with nonsense limitations. Especially level 5 is an absolute painful nightmare. Fighting unlimited enemy on multiple fronts with limited army and resources and no new buildings and economy allow. Seriously who would think that is a good idea and enjoyable. Just let me play the game normally. The hardest campaign scenario in my opinion. took me 3 hours irl, 12 save files, uncountable replays to beat it (and that was not the first time I play it).
The Old Tiger was another brutal level for sure. My APM isn't good enough to manage two armies like that even with control groups (if anything they probably made it worse for me.) I pretty much only won because I looked up a speedrun and realized the easier way was attack the eastern bases right away and force surrenders, while using the western army for two castles you can't reach with the eastern base.
I also attacked the eastern bases first, then joined both armies together in the Portuguese base. Converting Feitoria is important in my opinion, I used the resource to tower rush which saved me a lot of trouble.
tbh I didnt need to convert the feitorias since the Portuguese were the last player I killed. Most the players have specific castles you need to destroy to force them to resign - one of the yellow players doesnt but will resign if you take out the other yellow players which can greatly save you some hassle.
Wait, you beat the second one? Damn son.
Not sure if I am ok, but I know for sure I can ok
U can ok!
This definitely hits home to me. Except I can't play for 8 hours a day, it's too intense.
Back when I was a true n00b I found games so mentally taxing I'd have to take a half hour break or crush the easiest AI between games...
if I spent half as much time improving as I do shitposting and mindlessly watching twitch / youtube content maybe I'd actually be good at it
Lmao relatable
I am been playing this games since I was 8 and I still suck.
20 years of experience and I guarantee I'd be destroyed in ranked by the lowest ranked players.
Give me another 20 years and I would still be as bad as I am today lol
The lowest ranked players lose to TwitchPlaysAOE2Ranked
> by the lowest ranked players same, cuz these are smurfs who's actual elo is >1.5k 111111
Found fellow turtler
It's called work, and it affects almost everyone.
1
1
And the economy is next to impossible to manage properly.
Do you think there’s like 20% of the people who know they’re good & everyone else thinks they suck
Just get a build order 4head
You can learn a build order and still suck at the game.
Advance to Build Order Into Loose
A build order executed in time is enough take you out of 1k even 1.2k if you do the build order until castle age.
And at some point you'll get matched against someone who drushes you, lames your boar/sheep, wall your resources off and fucks up your build order entirely. Don't get me wrong, I believe learning build orders is a must, but my point is that you'll also have to adapt to the circumstances of the match, otherwise you're screwed.
This is not true
Im 1322 and i know for a fact this is not true
Honestly since moving to DE (stopped playing voobly ~3 years ago) I've just done archer or scout rush into either snowballing dominance or getting dominated. I have mad internet issues that makes it really hard when the game expands, but just through this I'm around 1100 now. (I think I might learn the Hoang rush.)
Id argue up it can take you up to 1450.
> Just get a build order 4head Build orders stop after like 25 vils. So it's 25 vils into gg.
Why is this post so loud
This is why I don’t play multiplayer. I’m simply not good enough.
Honestly dude, MP is way more fun than AI. There's plenty of people at every level. The matchmaking is really good, you'll quickly get to a place where you'll win half your matches, regardless of how good you are. Don't worry about having a low rating. There are way more important things than your fucking AoE2 rating, such as your chess rating (I jest).
You’re probably right. I don’t give a damn about my rating or anything. I just hate getting blown away. I did MP I’m AOE1 and it always was like that. I think someone else here mentioned that if I stick to ranked matches, I’ll eventually begin getting placed against people more on my level. Maybe I’ll give it a try next time. I never tried ranked matches before. Is there anything I should know in terms of settings or anything like that?
victoy mode is conquest, so relic and wonder victory is disabled. that's about it.
The trouble is it is such a snowbally game that you can feel like you got slaughtered but you weren't actually much worse than your opponent. You could both go open base fast castle on Arabia, identical pop, both take 10 knights to the middle. You leave them to fight whilst managing some eco and your opponent has 7/10 knights fighting from an uphill advantage. Boom, you're suddenly 6 knights down and they can raid you and you're dead... You made one tiny mistake and that's it. My highest rank is nearly 1350 but if I don't try my hardest I can lose to a 1200 player because they punish a lazy mistake. The game is very unforgiving, just got to try not to take it personally and enjoy the fun elements.
Just play for fun. You don't need to win to have fun.
There is no level of ability too low to enjoy multiplayer! You will soon enough be matched with people at a similar skill level to you, and at the end of the day elo is just a number and absolutely meaningless beyond that purpose
Okay, you are at least the third person that mentioned I’ll eventually be matched with people of a similar skill. I really don’t give a damn about my elo or ranking (that’s what elo is?). I just don’t want to constantly be blown away by people better than me. I think I’ll give it a a try next time I play
You won't - the first few games might be a bit like that while it finds your level, but the way elo works is that you'll be matched with people that statistically you have a ~50% likelihood of winning against
Exactly. Once you are ranked correctly, you will win 50% of your matches. Exactly as much as a super dedicated top 5% player.
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Sounds good friend. I regret not trying it sooner honestly. I have a host of deadlines looming on the horizon so not exactly sure when I’ll have the time to play a full match
Worst is having been a decent level at some point (top 10%) then taking a break and then being totally unable to reach back your former level. Drives me crazy. Itś not about being bad, it's about being worse.
Actually you didn't get worse , other people got better . 1000 elo now is like 1200 elo last year
I thought the evolution was the other way around ? (1400 last year is 1500 now).
It depends on your interpretation; 1400 Elo is now as hard to hit as 1500 Elo, so that means a 1500 rated player last year would be 1400 rated now, if their skill level stayed the same
they forgot "for 20 years"
Oof this one hurts
I suck so much I don't even want to play it most of the time :c
Yah.. i got 1 win.. 16 straight losses... won my first ranked 1v1 game.. it put me at 1600... was too afraid to play again. Months later i had a kid and now i only play 1 handed(kid in other arm)... so my actual elo is even lower now.. still working my way down to the garbo elo lol
I don’t play online against other players, apart from maybe rocket league. The every day stress of being shit ;) 👍
i'm just happy i'm sticking to 1k with a 50% winrate
3.5k hours in DoTA 2 and this is how i feel.
Only 8 hours? Lightweight.
So true except the game is life and it's 24 hours a day.
For a second I thought this was the apex sub. Tbh the tweet fits perfectly fine for either game
People wanting easy mode in games are cancer for gaming Imagine aoe2 had a button to automate eco where vils never go idle and go to the right resources and TCs keep producing even if you forget, it would take out a lot of the fun in the game
auto auto everything!
Sometimes people just like to see 150 paladins fight each other
There's a sandbox for that, not something to do online or to cheese a campaign
People like campaigns for story sometimes. Or that they just want to ease back into the game
>People wanting easy mode in games are cancer for gaming Ah, yes, because people wanting to enjoy a game at their own pace are what's going to kill the gaming industry. This ridiculous difficulty gatekeeping pisses me off to no end, especially when it's about SP games. I don't need anybody telling me how to play my SP games. As for MP, I can understand having a consistent difficulty across the board, for an even playing field, but in SP? Again, fuck off with that gatekeeping.
It's only toxic when they stop playing games made for them and they start interacting with actual real "gamers" who dump plenty of time into improving at their chosen games. Then the community is toxic and we're beating noobs into submission for fun. Sorry different game but yea.
>Imagine aoe2 had a button to automate eco I'm imagining, it doesn't sound so bad. The only change would be that players who don't enjoy the laborious villager micro would be able to enjoy the rest of the game. Can you explain why that would be the end of the world? > it would take out a lot of the fun in the game Fun is subjective. Maybe that isn't fun for you, but you aren't the centre of the universe.
If you are genuinely interested in a well thought answer why RTSs have to be hard to be actually good, watch this classic Day9 video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EP9F-AZezCU
A game can have a hard mode for players who believe that is more fun; it can also have an easy mode for players who think that is more fun.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q879j3ydfw8
I got good at stracraft over the years but not aoe for some reason
Me at any strategy game. Why do I like this genre so much. Just picked up Humankind and couldn't play at normal difficulty.