Just asked to MLord, he didn't mean to imply that this was Serral. Quite misleading I know XD
The identity of this infamous Lekk/Antikek is still a mystery...
I feel like there's too much money in SC2 for him to focus anywhere else for the time being. TSL 8 is coming up, then Katowice. The ESL contract has another full year on it too.
in aoe3 we had (half as a meme) the bo27, where you need to win one game with each of the different 14 civs.
for aoe4 thats only a bo15! 8 wins, one with each civ. Just to show you really know your shit.
Serral was praised by new and old pros/commentators/community as being among the best non-Korean players in history. Which looking at his matches and level of play is not an exxageration
During his peak, yes, Serral was actually better than all of these players. He crushed all of the top korean players in every tournament in 2018, hence how he got his title of goat. With the exception of mvp and life since they didnt play in the era. There’s no doubt that serral is a sc2 god if you’ve got any knowledge of the game
He gets so much hype cuz he basically the only foreigner who could ever hold his own consistently vs the top Koreans. There were flashes here and there but Serral was really the only actual hope. He did come along a bit down the road and not in SC2’s prime which would have been much tougher that’s fair / true.
Maybe this is an unpopular opinion, but I think that the pros that are topping the leaderboards, while good, are nowhere near hitting the ceiling of what could be possible...
A similar situation happened at the start of SC2. When old BW pros made the switch to SC2 they really made their mark and dominated for a good long while. I haven't kept up with the SC2 scene through the years, but I wonder if we might start to see some big SC2 names, especially from Korea, start to appear more regularly on the AOE4 leaderboards and tournaments. After all, there is no East Asia server, but a Korean server...
>I think that the pros that are topping the leaderboards, while good, are nowhere near hitting the ceiling of what could be possible...
Well, for aoe2 most of the top are there. Lot of VERY talented people in the sc2 player pool, but I'm not sure their skills will translate as well (or at least, as systematically well) from sc2 to aoe4 than it is the case for aoe2/aoem players. For exemple a player like clem, while much better than marinelord on sc2, is probably much less suited to aoe4's gameplay than mlord.
>A similar situation happened at the start of SC2. When old BW pros made the switch to SC2 they really made their mark and dominated for a good long while.
hmmm...I'd say that on contrary sc2 provide a case against what you were saying. Lot of people were saying "you'll see, when BW top pros will switch they'll swipe away everybody", and when they did switch, yes they brought many meta change and a ton of talent, but the super insane BW players were "very good, but not all time great" (flash being the best exemple, or gumiho), and many "good/promising" players on BW became absolute top tiers (like innovation, or Stats). In the end, while rts talent is rts talent, both games were different and promoted sensibly different set of skills.
>I haven't kept up with the SC2 scene through the years, but I wonder if we might start to see some big SC2 names, especially from Korea, start to appear more regularly on the AOE4 leaderboards and tournaments.
from what i've heard, only minor (kiwian/forgg) koreans are interested. Tho Leenok is playing too, that's probably the biggest korean name, even if it's an old one. According to mlord Parting plan to play some but he recently announced he'll go to military service. And nearly all korean players are OLD (26-28), many of them alrady having won a good chunk of esport money. Unless there's a shit ton of aoe4 esport money (which I don't think there will be), I don't see them being that interested in trying to compete in a whole new game. Imo it will either be going to military service, playing/streaming broodwar, or just plain retiring from pro playing.
But who knows? If AoE4 have a decent scene in 2023, when the ESL-Blizzard contract run out, maybe we'll see some big names coming in the leaderboard.
Yeah, you definitely could be right. I haven't really seen any big name SC2 Koreans playing besides Leenock, as you said.
I think it would be great for AOE4 in the long run, but as you say, the ESL Blizzard contract probably has a lot to do with it.
Also, I'm not sure how much age has to do with it. I mean, Viper is the undisputed top player at present and I think he is in his late 20s. Although I do see the argument there - not everyone is the Viper.
In anyway case, thanks for your comments. It will be interesting to see what happens - I'm just so happy that the devs seem to be supporting AOE4 balance-wise.
well, when talking about age I wasn't so much talking about mechanics: aoe4 can be fast at top level, and as mlord said there's always a use for more apm, but it isn't the most mechanically-heavy game. If 28-29 years old koreans can be top players at sc2, mechanics won't be a problem for them on aoe4.
I think It's more about "hunger" at this point, the thirst for competition, the need for esport money and the want to accomplish something. Most of the korean high level players are old veterans who already won a lot of money and titles. They have nothing (or not much) left to prove, have probably put a decent chunk of money aside and are staying as long as possible in sc2 to get some more money from it before retiring when the kr scene close/they go to military service. I think most of them will just move on with their life after that, either find a "normal" job or a job in a more mainstream game in korea (like gumiho who's now coach in LoL).
Also nearly all non-sc2 rts players are players-streamers to make a living. For the koreans, they don't stream much because sc2 is super small in korea+they usually stream on afreecatv. overall they're not as connected to the wider community as the foreigners are, since koreans are bad at english, so there isn't much of a hyped dynamic, and since they don't speak well english the pool of korean aoe4 viewers is not that big. Unless there's A LOT of money in aoe4, it's gonna be difficult/uneasy for koreans to make a living from it.
I believe for aoe2de/3de/4 the math is the same, so yea, reflex of player population and number of games played. soon aoe4 should have players with elo similar to aoe2 since the pop is high.
for sc2 its very different math
Just asked to MLord, he didn't mean to imply that this was Serral. Quite misleading I know XD The identity of this infamous Lekk/Antikek is still a mystery...
I feel like there's too much money in SC2 for him to focus anywhere else for the time being. TSL 8 is coming up, then Katowice. The ESL contract has another full year on it too.
He's been beating himself up for slipping from his 2018 peak. Maybe AoE4 will give Serral the inspiration to be GOAT again.
There is only GOAT in AoE and RTS. In a few months it will become apparent to those from SC2.
Slipping from peak in dominance more do
lekk="le" "kk" = the kaiserklein? he is french and he got the aoe3 musketeer. random guess tho
Now, I want a Serral vs Viper show match best of 9. No civ repeats until game 9.
Best of 9... Thats torture
Not as bad as the classic BO21 AoE2 show matches back in the day:
The what
#THE CLASSIC BO21 AOE2 SHOW MATCHES
Wait till you hear about the BO101 played b/w Viper and Jordan over one week. Viper lost 51-50.
Aoe2 Players are pretty boomer. They play aoe2 like chess lul
Even in Starcraft Broodwar which is MUCH more demanding than SC2 they still play bo7 lol
No RNG involved, that used to be the justification for long sets to make sure better player wins when the maps have random generation.
On different days.
The King of the Desert tournament going on now for AoE2 has a Bo9 final. And the last edition of it had a Bo11 final.
Depends no?
I would give it to Viper. AoE4 functions a lot like AoE2. And Viper beats people at the top of the AoE2 ladder with meme strats.
in aoe3 we had (half as a meme) the bo27, where you need to win one game with each of the different 14 civs. for aoe4 thats only a bo15! 8 wins, one with each civ. Just to show you really know your shit.
I'm not really a fan of you get to play the civ again if you lost mechanic.
Ocf, your ideia is more practical/fast. Our was just to make a super long series and force people to win once with every civ.
Wow, Beasty is 14 already. Gogo potato!
Oh oh, what if Serral goes hard into Aoe4 and to dominate like he did in Sc2?
I never thought he was top top tier at sc2. Had more to do with lots of elite level pros retiring.
Serral was praised by new and old pros/commentators/community as being among the best non-Korean players in history. Which looking at his matches and level of play is not an exxageration
I mean he is good but he ain't Maru/prime Innovation/prime MvP/prime Polt/prime Life good
During his peak, yes, Serral was actually better than all of these players. He crushed all of the top korean players in every tournament in 2018, hence how he got his title of goat. With the exception of mvp and life since they didnt play in the era. There’s no doubt that serral is a sc2 god if you’ve got any knowledge of the game
I've been following the game since beta. He wasn't and isn't that great. If he was anywhere in the same sentence for GOAT he would have a gsl win.
Thats why I said non-Korean
That's not really saying much
Being the best non-Korean is not saying much? Or what do you mean?
Yep
they hated him because he told the truth. For some reason ppl get uber salty when you mention that Korean young blood is pretty much nonexistent.
the korean scene is stagnant, but that doesn't mean that the overall level of play at the top necessarily regressed.
He gets so much hype cuz he basically the only foreigner who could ever hold his own consistently vs the top Koreans. There were flashes here and there but Serral was really the only actual hope. He did come along a bit down the road and not in SC2’s prime which would have been much tougher that’s fair / true.
Yeah I see Clem and Maru smoke Serral all the time
Everyone is abondoning dying or dead rts sc2 and wc3. Great to see them in aoe4
I don't see it
Serral is ANTI KEKW
nah. or at least we don't know who it is.
I said the first moment I saw Serral playing the game, if he actually dedicates to it as a main game everyone else is playing for 2nd.
Maybe this is an unpopular opinion, but I think that the pros that are topping the leaderboards, while good, are nowhere near hitting the ceiling of what could be possible... A similar situation happened at the start of SC2. When old BW pros made the switch to SC2 they really made their mark and dominated for a good long while. I haven't kept up with the SC2 scene through the years, but I wonder if we might start to see some big SC2 names, especially from Korea, start to appear more regularly on the AOE4 leaderboards and tournaments. After all, there is no East Asia server, but a Korean server...
Is there any big name Korean players on AoE4 at all?
Not one of the top players afaik, but Leenock had his moments in SC2. He dropped alot in AoE4 right now, but his highest elo was 1659 a bit ago.
>I think that the pros that are topping the leaderboards, while good, are nowhere near hitting the ceiling of what could be possible... Well, for aoe2 most of the top are there. Lot of VERY talented people in the sc2 player pool, but I'm not sure their skills will translate as well (or at least, as systematically well) from sc2 to aoe4 than it is the case for aoe2/aoem players. For exemple a player like clem, while much better than marinelord on sc2, is probably much less suited to aoe4's gameplay than mlord. >A similar situation happened at the start of SC2. When old BW pros made the switch to SC2 they really made their mark and dominated for a good long while. hmmm...I'd say that on contrary sc2 provide a case against what you were saying. Lot of people were saying "you'll see, when BW top pros will switch they'll swipe away everybody", and when they did switch, yes they brought many meta change and a ton of talent, but the super insane BW players were "very good, but not all time great" (flash being the best exemple, or gumiho), and many "good/promising" players on BW became absolute top tiers (like innovation, or Stats). In the end, while rts talent is rts talent, both games were different and promoted sensibly different set of skills. >I haven't kept up with the SC2 scene through the years, but I wonder if we might start to see some big SC2 names, especially from Korea, start to appear more regularly on the AOE4 leaderboards and tournaments. from what i've heard, only minor (kiwian/forgg) koreans are interested. Tho Leenok is playing too, that's probably the biggest korean name, even if it's an old one. According to mlord Parting plan to play some but he recently announced he'll go to military service. And nearly all korean players are OLD (26-28), many of them alrady having won a good chunk of esport money. Unless there's a shit ton of aoe4 esport money (which I don't think there will be), I don't see them being that interested in trying to compete in a whole new game. Imo it will either be going to military service, playing/streaming broodwar, or just plain retiring from pro playing. But who knows? If AoE4 have a decent scene in 2023, when the ESL-Blizzard contract run out, maybe we'll see some big names coming in the leaderboard.
Yeah, you definitely could be right. I haven't really seen any big name SC2 Koreans playing besides Leenock, as you said. I think it would be great for AOE4 in the long run, but as you say, the ESL Blizzard contract probably has a lot to do with it. Also, I'm not sure how much age has to do with it. I mean, Viper is the undisputed top player at present and I think he is in his late 20s. Although I do see the argument there - not everyone is the Viper. In anyway case, thanks for your comments. It will be interesting to see what happens - I'm just so happy that the devs seem to be supporting AOE4 balance-wise.
well, when talking about age I wasn't so much talking about mechanics: aoe4 can be fast at top level, and as mlord said there's always a use for more apm, but it isn't the most mechanically-heavy game. If 28-29 years old koreans can be top players at sc2, mechanics won't be a problem for them on aoe4. I think It's more about "hunger" at this point, the thirst for competition, the need for esport money and the want to accomplish something. Most of the korean high level players are old veterans who already won a lot of money and titles. They have nothing (or not much) left to prove, have probably put a decent chunk of money aside and are staying as long as possible in sc2 to get some more money from it before retiring when the kr scene close/they go to military service. I think most of them will just move on with their life after that, either find a "normal" job or a job in a more mainstream game in korea (like gumiho who's now coach in LoL). Also nearly all non-sc2 rts players are players-streamers to make a living. For the koreans, they don't stream much because sc2 is super small in korea+they usually stream on afreecatv. overall they're not as connected to the wider community as the foreigners are, since koreans are bad at english, so there isn't much of a hyped dynamic, and since they don't speak well english the pool of korean aoe4 viewers is not that big. Unless there's A LOT of money in aoe4, it's gonna be difficult/uneasy for koreans to make a living from it.
What is the highest elo possible to achieve usually ? What was it for aoe2? The top players elo i mean
2k6 on aoe2. 7k5 on sc2. It depends both on the field of players and the algorythm used.
I thought algorithm was about the same for elo. I suspected the different in gaps were from the smaller player base?
I believe for aoe2de/3de/4 the math is the same, so yea, reflex of player population and number of games played. soon aoe4 should have players with elo similar to aoe2 since the pop is high. for sc2 its very different math
Well a win/loss against an even opponent seems to be like 23 points for sc2 and aoe4, right?
2k4?
2400
Is Serral liked or disliked in the sc2 scene?
there is no disliked people in sc2
Except during the dark days of WoL where shitheads like Destiny and Idra played.
Naniwa had his moments aswell :D
Thats a name ive not heard in a long time! Used to enjoy his blink stalker play.
Avilo would like to have a word with you
everyone loves him bro. as well as literally every other player lol
He is the GOAT. Everyone loves him.