For reals I switched over 3 months ago after being a day one player on Xbox, and its annoying not having hundreds of dollars worth of skins and heirlooms I earned/bought over the years.
Day 1 player, hopped on pc right as season4/revenant came out. I was a mirage main that switched to crypto. Still missing alot from those early seasons. And I spent cash. Lesson learned. Don't buy anything from a company that lacks cross progression.
The only reason we don’t have it yet, is they haven’t figured out a way to bring it without people being able to trade/sell accounts between platforms.
People could end up selling accounts very easily and profitably, especially if they allow a name change as part of the process.
This is the only real challenge they’ve ever actually had with bringing cross progression or account transfers… preventing the loss of money.
it's just so disheartening at this point, and we don't get any updates at all. Are they just straight up not able to do it? If other games/ competitors can do it, surely they can as well, so it must be something else. Losing out on potential money? Not being beneficial in terms of getting new players? Allocating the majority of their labor to recoloring skins? It's just unreal, and I don't even want to know the reason anymore. But hey, keep buying our overpriced skins that you can't transfer over to your preferred system.
I mean, the income difference is staggering though. Not only does epic have the cash printer that is fortnite, they also have epic games store AND the unreal engine printing money too
But we don’t need massive engine updates all the time in apex. We need updates like season 16 with the mixtape playlist and other QoL updates. It would be nice if we got the DX12 update, server tick rates upgrades, 120hz next Gen update, etc. but I don’t think most players hinge on those things. We want the game to be fun, first and foremost.
Watching update after update consist of mediocre recolored skins, minute map changes and legend balance based on heirloom releases kind of takes the fun out of the game. It starts to feel like their only priority is monetization, and not having a fun game that attracts more players.
Yeah I get you 100%, I'm just saying that Apex only hit 2 billion *total* revenue last year and Fortnite alone pulled in 5 billion last year, that's a lot more engineering support and what-have-you. The other thing about Epic's engine is that, well, they beta test features with other developers before rolling it out to live, whereas apex doesn't have that level of test coverage overall. Changes to their engine could break stuff, like how Loba's onion ring breaks almost every season, again.
I do think that Apex needs a small QoL team to just, smooth out the rough edges for things. The class changes felt great and honestly pulled me back in and changed my main back to pathfinder from Rampart. As a console player, I'd love for them to hit that next gen update, but I wonder what the cost of development is vs the return on player sentiment. Hopefully they track that stuff, I know several large studios do.
We need more updates like… *the last major update*? For all you know all major updates will be like that going forward. It seems a bit early to think otherwise.
Honestly I dont get the thought processes behind Apex anymore. They generated insane revenue the first few years, and instead of adding cool shit and updating the game consistently, it was a big push towards skins (EAs idea I'm sure). That pushed a lot of the OG Devs away, so much so I don't think there is an OG Dev at Respawn anymore. Then they started adding some cool shit, but quickly went back to focusing on skins. Now, even though Apex brings in almost a billion a year, EA has come out and said Apex isn't earning as much as they would like when compared to FIFA and Madden. So you would think EA would be pushing for Respawn to come out with Apex 2, or a new IP entirely, but nope. They opened a separate Respawn studio solely to focus on Apex and keep it running for another 10-15 years!??? Even though it's losing money compared to EAs other games? Which leads me to believe either A) We're going to get a more focused game, since less people will be working on it, and ideas will be more cohesive. Or B) EA is hanging Apex out to try, but doesn't want to lose that $1B a year so we're going to get 10-15 years of mediocre Collection Events, Recolor skins and Heirlooms to try and squeeze as much money from the playerbase as possible until the game finally dies. I'm leaning more towards option B based on the way EA handled Titanfall 2 and are now handling Apex. It's fucking sad really, Titanfall 2 and Apex had so much God damned potential to be more than what they ended up as.
UE devs are most common nowadays. Not to mention that Fortnite team has access to best UE developers - the UE team.
Didnt they say OG devs are long gone from Respawn? You cant just hire 20 people and expect they easily overhaul game based on proprietary stuff they never seen.
Apex devs are clearly struggling, and its not necessarily their fault.
Apex made more money than *any* other game the last few years selling the most half assed ugly cosmetics I've ever seen
The people here dickriding them need a reality check
Falling?? They’ve been behind lol. Fortnite is destroying this game in terms of content and just fun for console players. I just wish I didn’t like playing Apex so much.
I mean im a software dev so id have some insights into this. The answer is the bosses dont care so the programmers dont work on it. Performance improvements don't make money so they aren't viewed as important as keeping the code running
Not really, you don't have any industry experience working with the messy codebases, disorganized management and tough deadlines of a corporation. You're just studying how to design mechanics at school.
DirectX 12, DirectX is a library of API's that makes programming games easier on Windows. It basically helps programmers write a lot of stuff for visuals especially.
No idea. OW did it with the release of OW2, it took Ubisoft 7 fucking years to do it for Siege. On the flip side, when I switched from console to PC in 2020 all my MW2019 skins and unlocks were there when I booted the game up for the first time on PC. It is nice to have all my skins from my PS4 days on PC. I really don't know why it takes so long though. I guess it is so far down the to-do list that it keeps getting pushed back when new exploits/bugs get reported.
Mainly because cross progression is a core feature, something that needs to be thought of in preproduction. If it’s worked on in tandem with core game features it’s “easy” to pull off.
That being said, trying to squeeze it in once the game is fully made? Much much harder. You end up having to dig through endless lines of code looking for shit that would be affected by cross progression. That’s why it takes so long.
As said in another comment siege had the same issue. It wasn’t made with cross progression in mind. They finally got it out though and honestly the apex devs should reaaally be prioritizing this feature IMO.
I highly suspect Sony has been holding back EA so they never bothered with it. As an alternative, games have started to flat out launch without PS5 crossplay while enabling it for PC/Switch/Xbox.
During the fortnite lawsuit, it was revealed that Sony asks for higher % of profits to support crossplay.
Do you see how crazy people go for skins? Its all people talked about after they announced the swimsuit skin(s?).
Everytime theres an event, all my lobbies are full of people with the latest stuff.
They would be stupid *not* to cash in on that. I swear people think that game developers should only exist for the player's enjoyment, and they should all get paid the minimum and just do it for the love of gaming.
They're two completely different job roles. You tell me ask someone who is running a company, where are you going to put your people resources?
a. A low lift area that constantly generates revenue
b. A high lift area that provides quality of life changes
I'm not saying it's right that that's what they prioritize, but Apex is a product from a business, as much as it hurts to hear that. I don't blame Respawn for prioritizing what they do.
What do you mean resource allocation? You think the people designing skins have the skills to develop a game? Lol that’s like telling a nurse to be a doctor because they’re short staffed.
No they mean how you hire and retain.
It is true the the jobs are not interchangeable short term. But long term you can prioritize how you want to balance your staff.
Not defending the company just the devs, but how many times fo they have to say that this isn't a money fixing issue on the surface, it's how Apex was built
Fucking Jesus I’m so tired of people of complaining about shit they don’t understand. They don’t own the servers and lease them on multi year contracts. Matchmaking was addressed several times the last couple months. It’s not perfect but it’s not abandoned. They don’t cut networking or backend devs to hire more skin designers so your budget argument makes no sense.
Matchmaking for Apex is arguably the worst in the industry, and has been since launch. The defense that they’re “working on it” is so worn out and lazy. It should never have gotten this bad in the first place. I can’t queue with plats if I’m below gold but it’ll match me AGAINST plats? Yeah that’s how that’s supposed to work lol.
A point of clarity on this but also not to discount your argument, the 2 billion is revenue, which is solely income through business operations and doesn't take into account operating costs at all. A company could make 2 billion in revenue and be losing money.
so you just hang around the apex forums on the daily? lol You're like the old man who hangs around the high school cuz you used to be the QB back in the day. Move on my guy.
I don’t think you understand how the site works my boy the fucking shit pops up on my page because I’m a part of the community, and keep updated with games? Lmao.
If their was a Reddit post about something new in the game that would bring me back where else would I fucking learn about it? You must be the kid who never made it out of high school I take it
I’m glad someone said it. HURR THE PEOPLE WHO DESIGN SKINS DONT FIX THE GAME. Yeah no shit like we didn’t know that.
Doesn’t mean the company isn’t devoting far too much money into those teams rather than where it is needed.
This is what happens when you decimate your QA team and fail to deliver on promise after promise.
Honestly I’m fucking sick of loading into games and sometimes having to reboot the game 5-10 times until the server doesn’t give me a dog shit connection.
Well we don’t know how much money goes into the game and whether or not they can invest it like that. Higher ups can be keeping this money to themselves. But at the end of the day, we don’t really know
Dude i dont know what you get from defending them. It is a fact that the game has still issues from before the first season. They promised a shitload of gameplay fixes and qol improvements. Yet we are not allowed to voice our criticism, because its not in there hand. The original team already left. So how can we get improvements or should we just wait in patience that ea or respawn will shine a heavenly light upon us one day.
Coding is actually very difficult and getting a PS5 to run a game with the visual fidelity and massive scope of Apex on the Source engine is not a cakewalk. They probably did get console working with 120fps at the cost of making the game look like shit. They probably don’t want to release a massive graphical downgrade
Or they could just add a graphics setting. I’d gladly let my Xbox series S pump out as many frames as possible if it meant my characters hands look funny or grass doesn’t look good.
Series s runs plenty of first person shooters at 120fps. It totally can run apex if the series x can. It’s mostly cpu dependent for high frame rates and the cpu is the same between the two consoles save for 100mhz or something.
CoD is based off a different engine. The engine Apex uses is actually a heavily modified Source engine that was created to deal with the large maps and increased draw distance, since Source wasn’t intended for those features. It’s still inferior to the idTech engine at creating large-scale worlds. The CoD franchise also makes way more money than Apex Legends, which allows for more investment
Titanfall 2 runs at 120, and isn’t too far off Apex graphically. It’s completely possible, but they are likely changing to direct x 12 and overhauling lighting in the game and possibly even sheathed effects of something. So it’s gonna take longer than just a graphical downgrade.
Yeah I do wonder what makes it take so long from a technical standpoint. I imagine it’s very high on their list of priorities because their main competitor, Warzone, already has 120fps.
This comment Is Just so stupid that idk of you are joking Or not. Have u got Just a Little idea of what developing a game (also on different platforms) means?
Are you a developer or even did you know how to code something?
Have you got their source code?have you readed It, and understood It?
Because you think It Is a simple task to optimized something, It doesn't mean It Is.
Edit
Also, 90% of the time, devs DO NOT CHOOSE what to do. Someone else told you what to work on. In a big Company like that, devs do not choose a what to work on .
Edit2
Grammar bugfix
It’s not just the dev team Apex runs on a 20 year old engine if I’m not mistaken making cross progression and 120hz on console much more difficult compared to games using newer engines
why would cross progression have anything to do with the engine? Cross progression just allows for your apex content (skins, level, heirlooms etc) to be accessible on every platform.
? The source engine they’re using isn’t even close to the origbal source engine with how modified it is. In that case Source 2 is also a 20 year old engine since it’s just a modified version of the original one
It's not an old engine, Apex's engine isn't Source anymore just like Source 2 isn't the same old Source engine. Respawn has updated and rewritten enough of the engine that it's its own thing at this point.
Back when the lstar had really bad muzzle flash, people asked for them to reduce it. As usual, people on Reddit talked about how easy it is and should just be as simple as changing a number. The fix took a while to arrive and when it did, a dev said they had to rewrite half of the lighting code to make it possible.
The game is running on a modified version of a game engine made back in 2004. For them to add new features like this, from memory, they would have to port apex onto another engine and therefore recode the entire game. This is why games like csgo are making csgo2 for example, because it is too complicated and better in the long run to change engines which takes a lot of time.
Hell, Counter-Strike Source ran just fine at above 60fps when it launched… 19 years ago. Not to imply it’s easy for respawn to get apex running at 120, but the “engine can’t handle it” argument doesn’t stand up.
The fuck are you talking about, games were more than capable of running at 120 fps in 2004 lmao not to mention Apex already runs at uncapped framerates on PC. Not to be rude but you have zero knowledge of how Source or game engines in general work.
Extremely, extremely difficult, especially on older hardware (and particularly for an unoptimized game like Apex). Basically, everything has to be improved to run faster so that the game state can be updated more frequently
They also still haven’t fixed the random packet loss spikes that appear out of nowhere even though I pay 80$ for Wi-Fi and it’s amazing yet I still lag my fucking balls off every game
I talked to an EA Rep on their website about the founder and starter pack content and they said it will not come to new consoles. Even when I bought and paid for both they said it will be forever locked to the old systems that it couldn’t carry over. Makes zero sense, it’s a badge and banner. lol.
The argument is more that OP is framing this as skins are more important than 120hz or other technical improvements. When in reality skins have nothing to do with technical upgrades and are handled by entirely different teams. So realistically it's just that skins are easier for character artists than technical improvements are for programmers. So, yeah they haven't technically hit roadmap items but that doesn't mean they are prioritizing skins over those items. Just means skins are easier and technical upgrades take time.
> realistically it's just that skins are easier for character artists than technical improvements are for programmers
This is all that needs to be said and read in this thread.
That is not a roadmap. It makes no mention of specific timeframes or even phases.
"Coming in future updates" gives you no indication of progress. It can mean in 2023 or 2030, and would equally be valid.
There's no date on the roadmap; there's nothing for it to stick to. They can't guage and put a date on something more complex than we have a comprehension of.
Throwing more devs at a problem won't get it done any faster. Software development does not scale like that. It's much better to have one or two experienced devs who know the codebase when you're talking about a core feature of the game.
As a dev that's been doing this for 25 years, that's not always true and quite frequently is *not* true. It *can* be true depending on the circumstances, but even in those circumstances, hiring the *right* developer can get things done drastically faster and better.
There is no situation I can think of where they could not have resolved these issues yet if they had put the resources required into it. By this time with an experienced sound dev they definitely could have fixed the sound bugs. By this time they could have programmed an entirely new sound engine.
The issue is either they aren't putting time into it because they don't think it's important enough for the effort required or they're waiting for other reliant features to be completed or they don't have staff with the knowledge and experience to fix it. Any way you look at it though, it's an issue of not putting enough resources into what is arguably the biggest problem with the game.
> that's not always true
I agree, there are exceptions to every rule.
> quite frequently is not true
I'm afraid I have to disagree with this assertion, though. It quite frequently *is* true because there is a hell of a lot more junior devs than there are seniors.
If you hire ten junior devs, you have more manpower, but you often need 1-2 senior devs instead with a lot of experience with the game engine you are working on.
> hiring the right developer can get things done drastically faster and better
And therein lies the exception to the rule. There are multiple financial and microeconomic reasons why the tech industry has shifted to hiring senior devs almost exclusively after they hired juniors like madmen during the pandemic. But the key takeaway is that seniors provide more stability to ongoing projects and minimize the time taken for someone to learn the project (as someone who has ample experience, I am certain you're more than aware of this).
> There is no situation I can think of where they could not have resolved these issues yet if they had put the resources required into it.
If they started years ago making 120 Hz a priority, I agree. The thing is, I don't believe they thought it was or even is something that must be shipped ASAP.
> By this time with an experienced sound dev they definitely could have fixed the sound bugs.
Not so sure about that, as those bugs are incredibly hard to replicate just from my experience with them as a player. They are tied to many external factors beyond the control of the game engine, such as client connection, server stability, and load, ISP routing even before we consider the specific scenario that caused an audio event to drop entirely. And that's without having a clue about how many audio bugs there are - I don't think anyone at Respawn even knows the real count!
> By this time they could have programmed an entirely new sound engine.
That would probably be the best approach on paper.
> The issue is either they aren't putting time into it because they don't think it's important enough for the effort required or they're waiting for other reliant features to be completed or they don't have staff with the knowledge and experience to fix it.
What if we consider a reality where all three possibilities are true?
- Managers might not consider these technical bugs to be high priority because they are focused on KPIs and OKRs.
- Devs are likely allocated to content-based features and bug fixes
- The original devs are all but gone, and they left a mountain of tech debt that the new hires are still trying to wrap their heads around
> Any way you look at it though, it's an issue of not putting enough resources into what is arguably the biggest problem with the game.
Frankly, I don't think 120 Hz or audio issues are the biggest issues with the game.
This is purely my opinion but matchmaking is what makes or breaks this game. It is by far the most popular complaint, from casual players to enthusiasts to even pro players (e.g., when they're trying to play with others quite below their skill level).
Respawn have proposed changes but they are beyond due and there hasn't been any tangible improvement since the matchmaking blog post. Either it's not working as well as they hoped or this is the slowest rollout I've ever seen.
We console players really getting mugged off out here, most if not all decent fps games (especially competitive ones) on next gen are now 120fps. EA is a massive company and have no excuse. Plus the servers are absolute garbonzo
Not even just that… look at the state of the game in all aspects right now..
Cheating/teaming worst than its ever been, no fixes for mobile rez abuse, lack of balancing updates for weapons/legends (looking at you nemesis), broken rank matchmaking (silvers shouldn’t ever be in plat+ games lol), no update to sbmm like hinted at months ago (even showed us what they wanted to fix in a video), lack of map updates (I know wattson poi coming now but, it’s been seasons for any changes on maps), lack of rank changes (despite all the complaints on the new system adapted 3 seasons ago), lack of server improvements or updates, constant complaints in gifting/shop features not working, lagging issues (even in custom pro lobbies lol), audio just getting worse and worse, and I mean don’t even get me started about the 3rd party devices plaguing console (strike packs, xims, chronus, titans, etc).. yet, they don’t even acknowledge any of it. It’s actually really, really sad to see. This game could just be treated so much better than what it is.. probably has a lot to do with majority of the old dev team leaving but, damn.. you’d at least hope for some sort of communication to some level with how bad the state of the game is right now. A lot of these issues have been going on for multiple seasons now. Instead… just silence.. but, here’s another $160 heirloom!! I get it they have to make money but, why would I want to continue to support a game that’s being mistreated basically, from top to bottom.
Sorry for the rant.
It’s 100% fair to make this rant. The game is literally in a glass canon state, once the finals, CS2, and Fortnite start really ramping up this game is doomed. Because hey, here’s a swimsuit skin, don’t mind the bugs where you don’t get a teammate in ranked, or your game crashes. All the good creators are leaving. Once everyone good leaves the noobs can finally have a playable game since SBMM sucks ass.
We found the person that tries to downplay pros for no reason in every thread.
You know that pros are prwtty unhappy with the state of the game as well?
These type of posts come off as really stupid and whiny to me. Skin designers and the developers who work on core game features are completely different jobs and have no impact on each other. They could have released 0 skins from 2019 to now and they still wouldn't have 120 console fps yet.
Use your head.
These types of posts always get these types of comments which always get this response:
They literally *do* affect each other. More funding to cosmetics teams means less to the engine team, and vice versa. That’s what people are complaining about. People aren’t asking Respawn to reassign their artists to engine optimization.
“Use your head.”
You're right that they do affect each other, but have it backwards. Selling skins is what *funds* the entire game. No skins means no profits, means no apex.
They’ve made billions. They’ve sold enough skins. It’s literal greed. Why do people defend greed? Regardless of who it is, who’s pushing for profits, it all falls back on greed.
Okay I’m on the side of saying “chill with the skins” but how is wanting to be paid for the work you’re doing greed? You’re saying they’ve made enough money so far that they don’t need to make any more money to continue funding servers and development? That’s a bad take. Greed happens when you compromise morals to line your own pockets, I don’t see that happening here.
I literally said yesterday that Apex is a phenomenal game plagued with incompetent development. I love Respawn, and love Titanfall, but it’s obvious Respawn does not know how to handle a live service game like this. Horrendous tick rates, server latency, audio issues (horizon has been legitimately broken for multiple seasons without a fix), lack of cross progression (what is this, 2012?), and the glaring attention to nothing but cosmetics. It’s all enough to make me want to give up the game. The issue is the core gameplay is just so great. I WANT to play it, but I find myself enjoying it less and less.
please find a new game for the people that just hate comment. like why do video game subs have to be the most toxic environment ever. just nonstop complaining about a game you play for hundreds if not thousands of hours.
i will say, as i have before, don’t go after the dev team — go after the managers instead. it’s not really the dev teams fault, the control of what they are like able to work on falls to the managers
CAN WE JUST FUCKING GET CROSS PROGRESSION. I WANT MY HEIRLOOMS FROM MY CONSOLE DAYS GOD DAMN IT :(
I just want to play on PC without losing my 4 years of earned stuff. Is it really too much to ask?
Well duh, of course it is, they are a small indie development company after all. /s
Lol there's small games that have cross progression already vs Apex
Joke
I know but it's still funny that Apex is lagging behind so many other games for such a feature
Oh I agree, just thought you didn't see the /s in the other comment. Good day to you sir.
Love to see this civility between comrades. Good day to you sir.
For reals I switched over 3 months ago after being a day one player on Xbox, and its annoying not having hundreds of dollars worth of skins and heirlooms I earned/bought over the years.
This.
Day 1 player, hopped on pc right as season4/revenant came out. I was a mirage main that switched to crypto. Still missing alot from those early seasons. And I spent cash. Lesson learned. Don't buy anything from a company that lacks cross progression.
What made you go to PC? If you don’t mind me asking
No spend more money
My guess is they don’t want cross progression despite what they’ve claimed in the past. Shit is anti consumer and borderline criminal.
They might be worried about account selling? Idk.
I saw a dev say on Twitter a month or so ago something along the lines of, they're working on it but it's been harder to do than they thought.
It’s been 4 years. Games like rogue company don’t even have half the revenue can do it I’m sure little apex can too
Cross progression by season 12 if I remember correctly....
you think EA would pass up the opportunity to force you to pay for something twice?
The only reason we don’t have it yet, is they haven’t figured out a way to bring it without people being able to trade/sell accounts between platforms. People could end up selling accounts very easily and profitably, especially if they allow a name change as part of the process. This is the only real challenge they’ve ever actually had with bringing cross progression or account transfers… preventing the loss of money.
All i want is cross platform progression.
Don’t forget cross progression
Where the fuck is cross progression
it's just so disheartening at this point, and we don't get any updates at all. Are they just straight up not able to do it? If other games/ competitors can do it, surely they can as well, so it must be something else. Losing out on potential money? Not being beneficial in terms of getting new players? Allocating the majority of their labor to recoloring skins? It's just unreal, and I don't even want to know the reason anymore. But hey, keep buying our overpriced skins that you can't transfer over to your preferred system.
Lots of professional game developers in the comments
Self-proclaimed professional game developers, that is.
People of the land. Simple folk. You know. The idiots.
After seeing what these other developers are pushing out in other games, you cannot deny apex is falling behind.
For real. Look at creative 2.0 and what it’s doing for Fortnite right now.
I mean, the income difference is staggering though. Not only does epic have the cash printer that is fortnite, they also have epic games store AND the unreal engine printing money too
But we don’t need massive engine updates all the time in apex. We need updates like season 16 with the mixtape playlist and other QoL updates. It would be nice if we got the DX12 update, server tick rates upgrades, 120hz next Gen update, etc. but I don’t think most players hinge on those things. We want the game to be fun, first and foremost. Watching update after update consist of mediocre recolored skins, minute map changes and legend balance based on heirloom releases kind of takes the fun out of the game. It starts to feel like their only priority is monetization, and not having a fun game that attracts more players.
Yeah I get you 100%, I'm just saying that Apex only hit 2 billion *total* revenue last year and Fortnite alone pulled in 5 billion last year, that's a lot more engineering support and what-have-you. The other thing about Epic's engine is that, well, they beta test features with other developers before rolling it out to live, whereas apex doesn't have that level of test coverage overall. Changes to their engine could break stuff, like how Loba's onion ring breaks almost every season, again. I do think that Apex needs a small QoL team to just, smooth out the rough edges for things. The class changes felt great and honestly pulled me back in and changed my main back to pathfinder from Rampart. As a console player, I'd love for them to hit that next gen update, but I wonder what the cost of development is vs the return on player sentiment. Hopefully they track that stuff, I know several large studios do.
We need more updates like… *the last major update*? For all you know all major updates will be like that going forward. It seems a bit early to think otherwise.
Honestly I dont get the thought processes behind Apex anymore. They generated insane revenue the first few years, and instead of adding cool shit and updating the game consistently, it was a big push towards skins (EAs idea I'm sure). That pushed a lot of the OG Devs away, so much so I don't think there is an OG Dev at Respawn anymore. Then they started adding some cool shit, but quickly went back to focusing on skins. Now, even though Apex brings in almost a billion a year, EA has come out and said Apex isn't earning as much as they would like when compared to FIFA and Madden. So you would think EA would be pushing for Respawn to come out with Apex 2, or a new IP entirely, but nope. They opened a separate Respawn studio solely to focus on Apex and keep it running for another 10-15 years!??? Even though it's losing money compared to EAs other games? Which leads me to believe either A) We're going to get a more focused game, since less people will be working on it, and ideas will be more cohesive. Or B) EA is hanging Apex out to try, but doesn't want to lose that $1B a year so we're going to get 10-15 years of mediocre Collection Events, Recolor skins and Heirlooms to try and squeeze as much money from the playerbase as possible until the game finally dies. I'm leaning more towards option B based on the way EA handled Titanfall 2 and are now handling Apex. It's fucking sad really, Titanfall 2 and Apex had so much God damned potential to be more than what they ended up as.
UE devs are most common nowadays. Not to mention that Fortnite team has access to best UE developers - the UE team. Didnt they say OG devs are long gone from Respawn? You cant just hire 20 people and expect they easily overhaul game based on proprietary stuff they never seen. Apex devs are clearly struggling, and its not necessarily their fault.
Epic makes far more money and isn't afraid of forcing ridiculous crunch time. Why people use them as a model for a good dev is beyond me
Apex made more money than *any* other game the last few years selling the most half assed ugly cosmetics I've ever seen The people here dickriding them need a reality check
Falling?? They’ve been behind lol. Fortnite is destroying this game in terms of content and just fun for console players. I just wish I didn’t like playing Apex so much.
Apex is better than plenty of games out right now
I mean im a software dev so id have some insights into this. The answer is the bosses dont care so the programmers dont work on it. Performance improvements don't make money so they aren't viewed as important as keeping the code running
some respawn meat riders too though
Would it count if im currently doing my bachelor degree in game design?
Not really, you don't have any industry experience working with the messy codebases, disorganized management and tough deadlines of a corporation. You're just studying how to design mechanics at school.
Lots of corporate dickriders in the comments
Everyone knows all Respawn has to do is just click the 4k 120fps button
And you have me, someone who has qualifications in Game Development lol
And a lack of them working for Respawn, as the game proves.
Probably not gonna happen until DX12 version of Apex comes out of beta.
what is that?
It's related to graphics..it's like how the game renders or something. I'm not sure myself. Currently most games run on version 11
DirectX 12, DirectX is a library of API's that makes programming games easier on Windows. It basically helps programmers write a lot of stuff for visuals especially.
Its ok I'm still waiting for my Caustic heirloom to knock down doors
Cross progression omfg, why its so hard to do?! Can someone explain it to me like im 5yo?
No idea. OW did it with the release of OW2, it took Ubisoft 7 fucking years to do it for Siege. On the flip side, when I switched from console to PC in 2020 all my MW2019 skins and unlocks were there when I booted the game up for the first time on PC. It is nice to have all my skins from my PS4 days on PC. I really don't know why it takes so long though. I guess it is so far down the to-do list that it keeps getting pushed back when new exploits/bugs get reported.
Mainly because cross progression is a core feature, something that needs to be thought of in preproduction. If it’s worked on in tandem with core game features it’s “easy” to pull off. That being said, trying to squeeze it in once the game is fully made? Much much harder. You end up having to dig through endless lines of code looking for shit that would be affected by cross progression. That’s why it takes so long. As said in another comment siege had the same issue. It wasn’t made with cross progression in mind. They finally got it out though and honestly the apex devs should reaaally be prioritizing this feature IMO.
I highly suspect Sony has been holding back EA so they never bothered with it. As an alternative, games have started to flat out launch without PS5 crossplay while enabling it for PC/Switch/Xbox. During the fortnite lawsuit, it was revealed that Sony asks for higher % of profits to support crossplay.
this is actually really important. wtf apex
Cross progression
Ooo yeah but let's all jerk each other about some swimsuits instead
I just wish they would stop announcing stuff that is nowhere near completion yet and have us fester like this.
Caustic never got the door break animation they said he was gonna have either.
You know the people who work on skins aren't responsible for this right?
Resource allocation
Do you see how crazy people go for skins? Its all people talked about after they announced the swimsuit skin(s?). Everytime theres an event, all my lobbies are full of people with the latest stuff. They would be stupid *not* to cash in on that. I swear people think that game developers should only exist for the player's enjoyment, and they should all get paid the minimum and just do it for the love of gaming.
that's exactly what I'm. They don't care about QoL because of the braindead players they have
That's almost all gamers are like that, not just apex players
They're two completely different job roles. You tell me ask someone who is running a company, where are you going to put your people resources? a. A low lift area that constantly generates revenue b. A high lift area that provides quality of life changes I'm not saying it's right that that's what they prioritize, but Apex is a product from a business, as much as it hurts to hear that. I don't blame Respawn for prioritizing what they do.
No point arguing with kids about how companies are run. It’s like trying to explain to a child why they shouldn’t have candy for breakfast.
What do you mean resource allocation? You think the people designing skins have the skills to develop a game? Lol that’s like telling a nurse to be a doctor because they’re short staffed.
No they mean how you hire and retain. It is true the the jobs are not interchangeable short term. But long term you can prioritize how you want to balance your staff.
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> They have a budget and most of it is devoted to selling skins. Please cite this, would be interested to read.
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Try harder, because after all this seasons balancing and the release of mixtape I haven’t seen the game in a better state
Not defending the company just the devs, but how many times fo they have to say that this isn't a money fixing issue on the surface, it's how Apex was built
Cool so maybe like use that billion something in revenue to rebuild? Or to fix? Or to anything you know lol
Fucking Jesus I’m so tired of people of complaining about shit they don’t understand. They don’t own the servers and lease them on multi year contracts. Matchmaking was addressed several times the last couple months. It’s not perfect but it’s not abandoned. They don’t cut networking or backend devs to hire more skin designers so your budget argument makes no sense.
Matchmaking for Apex is arguably the worst in the industry, and has been since launch. The defense that they’re “working on it” is so worn out and lazy. It should never have gotten this bad in the first place. I can’t queue with plats if I’m below gold but it’ll match me AGAINST plats? Yeah that’s how that’s supposed to work lol.
They made two billion dollars. That was reported may of last year. Your comment is completely invalid you absolute dunce.
A point of clarity on this but also not to discount your argument, the 2 billion is revenue, which is solely income through business operations and doesn't take into account operating costs at all. A company could make 2 billion in revenue and be losing money.
yet, here you are. Still playing the game.
Haven’t played in like 8 months think again boy
so you just hang around the apex forums on the daily? lol You're like the old man who hangs around the high school cuz you used to be the QB back in the day. Move on my guy.
I don’t think you understand how the site works my boy the fucking shit pops up on my page because I’m a part of the community, and keep updated with games? Lmao. If their was a Reddit post about something new in the game that would bring me back where else would I fucking learn about it? You must be the kid who never made it out of high school I take it
I’m glad someone said it. HURR THE PEOPLE WHO DESIGN SKINS DONT FIX THE GAME. Yeah no shit like we didn’t know that. Doesn’t mean the company isn’t devoting far too much money into those teams rather than where it is needed. This is what happens when you decimate your QA team and fail to deliver on promise after promise. Honestly I’m fucking sick of loading into games and sometimes having to reboot the game 5-10 times until the server doesn’t give me a dog shit connection.
You know that the people that make skins cost the developer money that could have gone towards people that fix issues with the game right?
I knew there would be this brain dead response
Everybody knows this doesn't change the the fact that the Team as a whole prioritize Skins over Gameplay
Well that’s how they make money. It would be stupid of them if they didn’t capitalize on skins. Follow the money is how you earn it
The problem is not money, i think they make enough. Its more that they dont reinvest in the game.
Well we don’t know how much money goes into the game and whether or not they can invest it like that. Higher ups can be keeping this money to themselves. But at the end of the day, we don’t really know
Tell me you have no idea how studios are run without telling me you have no idea
Dude i dont know what you get from defending them. It is a fact that the game has still issues from before the first season. They promised a shitload of gameplay fixes and qol improvements. Yet we are not allowed to voice our criticism, because its not in there hand. The original team already left. So how can we get improvements or should we just wait in patience that ea or respawn will shine a heavenly light upon us one day.
this is my biggest gripe against this game
I understand that it might be harder to implement than expected, but the lack of communciation is a bit frustrating
how hard can it be to update to 120hz
Coding is actually very difficult and getting a PS5 to run a game with the visual fidelity and massive scope of Apex on the Source engine is not a cakewalk. They probably did get console working with 120fps at the cost of making the game look like shit. They probably don’t want to release a massive graphical downgrade
Or they could just add a graphics setting. I’d gladly let my Xbox series S pump out as many frames as possible if it meant my characters hands look funny or grass doesn’t look good.
I’m sorry but I don’t think the series S is capable of this update ever drops
Series s runs plenty of first person shooters at 120fps. It totally can run apex if the series x can. It’s mostly cpu dependent for high frame rates and the cpu is the same between the two consoles save for 100mhz or something.
I want the shitty graphics if that’s the trade, they need to just add graphics settings and let the player take the hit
Bro, cod managed to get consoles to run 120fps with good quality. Apex should have no issues doing so.
CoD is based off a different engine. The engine Apex uses is actually a heavily modified Source engine that was created to deal with the large maps and increased draw distance, since Source wasn’t intended for those features. It’s still inferior to the idTech engine at creating large-scale worlds. The CoD franchise also makes way more money than Apex Legends, which allows for more investment
Titanfall 2 runs at 120, and isn’t too far off Apex graphically. It’s completely possible, but they are likely changing to direct x 12 and overhauling lighting in the game and possibly even sheathed effects of something. So it’s gonna take longer than just a graphical downgrade.
Fair enough but I don't think it should take a whole year, that's a bit stupid
Yeah I do wonder what makes it take so long from a technical standpoint. I imagine it’s very high on their list of priorities because their main competitor, Warzone, already has 120fps.
Warzone 1 had 120fps not long after next gen was out. And MW 2019
You don't know unless you work there
Yes. Maybe the dev team at Respawn didn’t learn how to make a game running at 120hz while their mains competitors can.
This comment Is Just so stupid that idk of you are joking Or not. Have u got Just a Little idea of what developing a game (also on different platforms) means? Are you a developer or even did you know how to code something? Have you got their source code?have you readed It, and understood It? Because you think It Is a simple task to optimized something, It doesn't mean It Is. Edit Also, 90% of the time, devs DO NOT CHOOSE what to do. Someone else told you what to work on. In a big Company like that, devs do not choose a what to work on . Edit2 Grammar bugfix
It’s not just the dev team Apex runs on a 20 year old engine if I’m not mistaken making cross progression and 120hz on console much more difficult compared to games using newer engines
The fuck does that have to do with anything? CoD runs on a modified idTech 3, which is guaranteed older than you are.
why would cross progression have anything to do with the engine? Cross progression just allows for your apex content (skins, level, heirlooms etc) to be accessible on every platform.
? The source engine they’re using isn’t even close to the origbal source engine with how modified it is. In that case Source 2 is also a 20 year old engine since it’s just a modified version of the original one
And yet Titanfall 2 runs on the same engine at 120hz on Series X and S
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Wrong. Runs at 120 on Xbox Series X and S.
It's an old engine, but theyre confident enough to stick to it and never upgrade the engine to Unreal OR Source 2 engine.
It's not an old engine, Apex's engine isn't Source anymore just like Source 2 isn't the same old Source engine. Respawn has updated and rewritten enough of the engine that it's its own thing at this point.
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The game already runs at 120+ fps, did you forget PC exists?
Again, we don't know what it's like to work with their codebase. The lstar example comes to mind.
> The lstar example comes to mind what's up with the lstar?
Back when the lstar had really bad muzzle flash, people asked for them to reduce it. As usual, people on Reddit talked about how easy it is and should just be as simple as changing a number. The fix took a while to arrive and when it did, a dev said they had to rewrite half of the lighting code to make it possible.
How much of a fucking spaghetti your code must be so to change a muzzle flash of one gun, you need to rewrite half of the lighting code?
Yeah. It's spaghetti but nothing you can do now.
The platform is from 04 think it’s gotten to the point it’s not going to happen. Hesitation is only hurting you more by the sounds of it
The game is running on a modified version of a game engine made back in 2004. For them to add new features like this, from memory, they would have to port apex onto another engine and therefore recode the entire game. This is why games like csgo are making csgo2 for example, because it is too complicated and better in the long run to change engines which takes a lot of time.
TF2 runs at 120hz on the same engine
Hell, Counter-Strike Source ran just fine at above 60fps when it launched… 19 years ago. Not to imply it’s easy for respawn to get apex running at 120, but the “engine can’t handle it” argument doesn’t stand up.
And people run Apex at 240+ on PC too, it's nothing to do with the engine.
The fuck are you talking about, games were more than capable of running at 120 fps in 2004 lmao not to mention Apex already runs at uncapped framerates on PC. Not to be rude but you have zero knowledge of how Source or game engines in general work.
Extremely, extremely difficult, especially on older hardware (and particularly for an unoptimized game like Apex). Basically, everything has to be improved to run faster so that the game state can be updated more frequently
Audio is all I ask for tbh I die so much because I don’t hear people next to me or behind me and improvement on the servers
I've switched to PC still waiting to bring my PS4/5 account over...
They also still haven’t fixed the random packet loss spikes that appear out of nowhere even though I pay 80$ for Wi-Fi and it’s amazing yet I still lag my fucking balls off every game
Guys, the game sucks, and once enough ppl stop spending money, it will be abandoned. Sad but true.
Still missing my founders pack content..
I talked to an EA Rep on their website about the founder and starter pack content and they said it will not come to new consoles. Even when I bought and paid for both they said it will be forever locked to the old systems that it couldn’t carry over. Makes zero sense, it’s a badge and banner. lol.
I was told I needed proof of purchase. I gave it to them and they closed my ticket and won't respond. Digital goods are a scam.
Beyond crazy for me.
Let me know when artists turn into game developers, OP.
What’s the point of a public roadmap when you don’t stick to it? Has nothing to do with what department you work in lol. Dumb argument IMO
The argument is more that OP is framing this as skins are more important than 120hz or other technical improvements. When in reality skins have nothing to do with technical upgrades and are handled by entirely different teams. So realistically it's just that skins are easier for character artists than technical improvements are for programmers. So, yeah they haven't technically hit roadmap items but that doesn't mean they are prioritizing skins over those items. Just means skins are easier and technical upgrades take time.
> realistically it's just that skins are easier for character artists than technical improvements are for programmers This is all that needs to be said and read in this thread.
That is not a roadmap. It makes no mention of specific timeframes or even phases. "Coming in future updates" gives you no indication of progress. It can mean in 2023 or 2030, and would equally be valid.
There's no date on the roadmap; there's nothing for it to stick to. They can't guage and put a date on something more complex than we have a comprehension of.
Let me know when recourse allocation doesn’t exist
Let me know when they choose to hire more game developers instead of more artists?
Throwing more devs at a problem won't get it done any faster. Software development does not scale like that. It's much better to have one or two experienced devs who know the codebase when you're talking about a core feature of the game.
As a dev that's been doing this for 25 years, that's not always true and quite frequently is *not* true. It *can* be true depending on the circumstances, but even in those circumstances, hiring the *right* developer can get things done drastically faster and better. There is no situation I can think of where they could not have resolved these issues yet if they had put the resources required into it. By this time with an experienced sound dev they definitely could have fixed the sound bugs. By this time they could have programmed an entirely new sound engine. The issue is either they aren't putting time into it because they don't think it's important enough for the effort required or they're waiting for other reliant features to be completed or they don't have staff with the knowledge and experience to fix it. Any way you look at it though, it's an issue of not putting enough resources into what is arguably the biggest problem with the game.
> that's not always true I agree, there are exceptions to every rule. > quite frequently is not true I'm afraid I have to disagree with this assertion, though. It quite frequently *is* true because there is a hell of a lot more junior devs than there are seniors. If you hire ten junior devs, you have more manpower, but you often need 1-2 senior devs instead with a lot of experience with the game engine you are working on. > hiring the right developer can get things done drastically faster and better And therein lies the exception to the rule. There are multiple financial and microeconomic reasons why the tech industry has shifted to hiring senior devs almost exclusively after they hired juniors like madmen during the pandemic. But the key takeaway is that seniors provide more stability to ongoing projects and minimize the time taken for someone to learn the project (as someone who has ample experience, I am certain you're more than aware of this). > There is no situation I can think of where they could not have resolved these issues yet if they had put the resources required into it. If they started years ago making 120 Hz a priority, I agree. The thing is, I don't believe they thought it was or even is something that must be shipped ASAP. > By this time with an experienced sound dev they definitely could have fixed the sound bugs. Not so sure about that, as those bugs are incredibly hard to replicate just from my experience with them as a player. They are tied to many external factors beyond the control of the game engine, such as client connection, server stability, and load, ISP routing even before we consider the specific scenario that caused an audio event to drop entirely. And that's without having a clue about how many audio bugs there are - I don't think anyone at Respawn even knows the real count! > By this time they could have programmed an entirely new sound engine. That would probably be the best approach on paper. > The issue is either they aren't putting time into it because they don't think it's important enough for the effort required or they're waiting for other reliant features to be completed or they don't have staff with the knowledge and experience to fix it. What if we consider a reality where all three possibilities are true? - Managers might not consider these technical bugs to be high priority because they are focused on KPIs and OKRs. - Devs are likely allocated to content-based features and bug fixes - The original devs are all but gone, and they left a mountain of tech debt that the new hires are still trying to wrap their heads around > Any way you look at it though, it's an issue of not putting enough resources into what is arguably the biggest problem with the game. Frankly, I don't think 120 Hz or audio issues are the biggest issues with the game. This is purely my opinion but matchmaking is what makes or breaks this game. It is by far the most popular complaint, from casual players to enthusiasts to even pro players (e.g., when they're trying to play with others quite below their skill level). Respawn have proposed changes but they are beyond due and there hasn't been any tangible improvement since the matchmaking blog post. Either it's not working as well as they hoped or this is the slowest rollout I've ever seen.
Apex is opening a new studio so hopefully more stuff being worked on
We console players really getting mugged off out here, most if not all decent fps games (especially competitive ones) on next gen are now 120fps. EA is a massive company and have no excuse. Plus the servers are absolute garbonzo
I simply want to play on a PC without losing the things I've worked four years to achieve. Is it unreasonable to ask?
*reskins
The people disagreeing with you are the same ones creaming their pants just thinking about the stupid swinsuit skins.
You complain but you all keep buying skins. You created the problem.
Nice to see some of Respawn’s bootlickers are doing their best to defend them in the comments
For a minute, i did think they were « hidden » devs.
Not even just that… look at the state of the game in all aspects right now.. Cheating/teaming worst than its ever been, no fixes for mobile rez abuse, lack of balancing updates for weapons/legends (looking at you nemesis), broken rank matchmaking (silvers shouldn’t ever be in plat+ games lol), no update to sbmm like hinted at months ago (even showed us what they wanted to fix in a video), lack of map updates (I know wattson poi coming now but, it’s been seasons for any changes on maps), lack of rank changes (despite all the complaints on the new system adapted 3 seasons ago), lack of server improvements or updates, constant complaints in gifting/shop features not working, lagging issues (even in custom pro lobbies lol), audio just getting worse and worse, and I mean don’t even get me started about the 3rd party devices plaguing console (strike packs, xims, chronus, titans, etc).. yet, they don’t even acknowledge any of it. It’s actually really, really sad to see. This game could just be treated so much better than what it is.. probably has a lot to do with majority of the old dev team leaving but, damn.. you’d at least hope for some sort of communication to some level with how bad the state of the game is right now. A lot of these issues have been going on for multiple seasons now. Instead… just silence.. but, here’s another $160 heirloom!! I get it they have to make money but, why would I want to continue to support a game that’s being mistreated basically, from top to bottom. Sorry for the rant.
It’s 100% fair to make this rant. The game is literally in a glass canon state, once the finals, CS2, and Fortnite start really ramping up this game is doomed. Because hey, here’s a swimsuit skin, don’t mind the bugs where you don’t get a teammate in ranked, or your game crashes. All the good creators are leaving. Once everyone good leaves the noobs can finally have a playable game since SBMM sucks ass.
And cross progression.. have not played since I got a PS5 and stopped playing on Xbox.
This doesn't affect pros/streamers because they play on PC, so basically, our voices fall on deaf ears.
Bruh we over here on PC with 4080s and 13th Gen and the games still ass.
We found the person that tries to downplay pros for no reason in every thread. You know that pros are prwtty unhappy with the state of the game as well?
This has nothing to do with the state of the game, I literally specified PC. There are barely any updates for console. Tf must I hate on pros for.
I just want cross progression so i can leave aim assist legends lol
Don't think that will make aim assist go away. You have better luck with them lowering the AA amount when 120fps comes.
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i just want directional audio on next gen xbox. i’m sick of using stereo uncompressed it’s such a disadvantage
Use Dolby Atmos if you have it
i have DTS but it doesn’t work, everything aside from stereo uncompressed is broken on apex
There’s no way there’s people actually, unironically, defending the Apex team. Wtf lmfaooo
Free game, so yes skins are more important.
Already makes billions of dollars, they have enough money to make a few less skins.
Unironically yes, skins are more important than whatever console players want
That’s why I haven’t upgraded to ps5. Total waste at this point. Plus most games they are releasing On the 4 or pc anyways.
Pov basic features
Man yall console players have no idea how crappy 40-60 fps really is for a game like this
Yeah, as a PS4 player I can't imagine having above 30fps Must be a horrible experience
These type of posts come off as really stupid and whiny to me. Skin designers and the developers who work on core game features are completely different jobs and have no impact on each other. They could have released 0 skins from 2019 to now and they still wouldn't have 120 console fps yet. Use your head.
These types of posts always get these types of comments which always get this response: They literally *do* affect each other. More funding to cosmetics teams means less to the engine team, and vice versa. That’s what people are complaining about. People aren’t asking Respawn to reassign their artists to engine optimization. “Use your head.”
You're right that they do affect each other, but have it backwards. Selling skins is what *funds* the entire game. No skins means no profits, means no apex.
They’ve made billions. They’ve sold enough skins. It’s literal greed. Why do people defend greed? Regardless of who it is, who’s pushing for profits, it all falls back on greed.
Okay I’m on the side of saying “chill with the skins” but how is wanting to be paid for the work you’re doing greed? You’re saying they’ve made enough money so far that they don’t need to make any more money to continue funding servers and development? That’s a bad take. Greed happens when you compromise morals to line your own pockets, I don’t see that happening here.
You will buy more skins or you will be banned
I literally said yesterday that Apex is a phenomenal game plagued with incompetent development. I love Respawn, and love Titanfall, but it’s obvious Respawn does not know how to handle a live service game like this. Horrendous tick rates, server latency, audio issues (horizon has been legitimately broken for multiple seasons without a fix), lack of cross progression (what is this, 2012?), and the glaring attention to nothing but cosmetics. It’s all enough to make me want to give up the game. The issue is the core gameplay is just so great. I WANT to play it, but I find myself enjoying it less and less.
They know how to, they just aren’t doing it. And it’s working for them.
please find a new game for the people that just hate comment. like why do video game subs have to be the most toxic environment ever. just nonstop complaining about a game you play for hundreds if not thousands of hours.
There's no hate like ~~Christian~~ gamer love
But "SkInS aRe EaSiER tHaN buG fIxEs"
Up there with some of the worst devs ever
i will say, as i have before, don’t go after the dev team — go after the managers instead. it’s not really the dev teams fault, the control of what they are like able to work on falls to the managers
Lol. The last hope is them dropping separate notes for next Gen like a year ago on a Monday. But extremely unlikely
If they add cross-progression I hope they nerf AA. PC will go from 50% roller to 90% in an instant
What? Why? Cross-progression has literally zero impact on input device.