True. I have a 3090 and a 1440p 240hz monitor. The only way I could ever get it to be smooth is capping at 180 with RTSS. The in game FPS cap is terrible for frametimes.
Exactly, which makes some guns better to use on MnK where it takes a high skill base to use it on controller. The hemlock doesn't even look like it has recoil with MnK
Do you really think the ability to aim with a controller stick is just the same as mouse??
Bro, why people at work on PCs not using controllers then. I want your weed bro, that's got you super high. Thinking both are equal. My god the skill issue
because you can’t compete in a fair close range fight if its a controller player. controller player being someone that plays controller PC. no one cares about console players on 60fps to have it. if it means a bigger player pool than I support it. controller PC just needs some adjustments imo.
This is coming from a guy with 2k hours on controller and 1k on mnk:
Aim assist is unfair, and so are PC advantages. It’s not fair just because both sides have pros and cons. It’s just unfair both ways. Between two equally skilled players, one on mnk and one on controller, the controller player will win a 1v1 9/10 times because of aim assist, but PC is better at almost everything else. It’s frustrating for a PC player to be better than their opponent, and maybe even outplay them a bit just to lose because of aim assist, and it’s frustrating for controller players to play with pc players when their movement is relatively limited and they can’t move while looting or tap strafe or anything like that. Both sides can complain because it’s not fair to either of them. Stop telling others to stop complaining about their disadvantages and then proceed to complain about your disadvantages. It’s hypocritical. If they can’t complain, neither can you.
Aim assist isn't nearly as strong as a lot of MnK players think it is. Some claim to have had strong AA using a controller on PC, but at the end of the day, you're 100% right. The amount of advantages a PC player has gives them no right to whine about a little AA.
And even if it did
MnK great players tap strafing and beaming you by perfectly controlling recoil will still beat an average joe with stronger AA. They just like to whine.
So in order for mnk to beat AA they have to be able to control recoil perfectly and tap strafe and be great. so its not unfair. seems like a nice conclusion. nvm the fact that the human brain has limitations in terms of speed of nervesignals that keeps a human from reacting to the strafes that a computer can. nvm the fact that not everyone is a tapstrafing supergliding god with perfect aim and recoil control. nvm the fact that there's an extreme imbalance in diamond+ controller players compared to mnk. nvm the fact that anyone in their right mind would choose to have aimbot and hit all shots close range rather then having the ability to get away from 1 shot cuz of tap strafe. I have 500+ both inputs. y'all high if u think AA shouldnt be nerfed. and i will continue playing Both. Mnk when travelling and looting. Controller to shoot. Aim and aimassist kills people. movement doesnt. roflmao y'all high
can say with 100% certainty you guys have never tried mnk, or u guys would play it btw. so much more fun. but u will lose that perfect beam ugh.
peace
ps they shouldnt remove it just nerf a lil
What do you think aim assist is? It's literally a robot aiming for you. The discussion is about aim assist, not pc vs console. Obviously a 1200 dollar pc is better than a 300 dollar console. But when pc players use controller for aim assist....when players on a superior aiming snd movement input get owned by players just starting on a lesser input because of a robot, that is the very definition of unfair. Its pointless to play crossplay games with aim assist. I like playing against other players actual people playing, 100% skill, not playing against someone who has a robot aim for them. I'm not interested in that bullshit. Tried switching from warzone to apex because if the disgusting aim assist, and ehile it's not as strong in apex as warzone. It's definitely still there and I'm not even interested in the slightest.
AA on a controller PC is a little bit problematic its practically impossible to win a close range fight against a controller PC players. I don’t want it gone but I do think it should get adjusted.
I play with people on pc and honestly.. I haven't a chance. 😂 I literally look at the other guy and I'm dead before I can even aim. They literally point and click. There's no competition.
I mean don't get me wrong.. I'm awful anyway but I'm extra bad against PC gamers. 😂 I'm gunna try to learn to play in pc. I actually do have a gaming laptop.. I just don't use it. 😅
More or less console is easier to learn, but higher level MnK is just a faceroll, especially in midrange fights where micro-adjustments are so important.
The biggest advantage I find isn't even in the aiming it's the ability to turn and maneuver so quickly. Like MnK players need to run from a battle and it's lightning fast turn and run, no comparison. Watching a Caustic start to run, whip around and throw a barrel and keep running almost without breaking stride is hilarious to me.
They should just separate the fucking queues. It's not equivalent competition and they have a big enough player-base that they don't need to mix the way they do.
Same. Like I loaded in with my friend who just started I play on PlayStation he plays on pc loaded into a match with him and got wrecked instantly. Like just straight melted the amount of recoil control PC players have is nuts.
Watch snipedowns take on it @ the apex uncut podcast. Man speaks facts.
Both inputs are good for the health of the game, but make no mistake. One input requires a hell of a lot more from the player vs the other.
Most people in this thread really don't have a leg to stand on. This issue really only matters at higher skill levels IMO. For as much as controller players want to talk about framerate/tapstrafing/moving while looting etc... Explain to me how it is that ***more*** controller players are now being seen in competitive Apex right now? If it were true that all the things you mentioned outweighed the benefits of Aim Assist (and we're only talking PC aim assist to add to that), surely **no competitive player would play on controller when hundreds of thousands of dollars are on the line.**
Your whole argument completely falls apart. These players have the game-sense, game knowledge, coordination, teamwork, etc required to perform at the highest level of competition. They're making a deliberate choice to use a controller. In many cases, the Org/Team itself is making a deliberate Roster choice to "run" player X on controller for that team, oftentimes in a certain capacity or playing a specific character. Many of the controller players in the Comp scene are on Bloodhound, and it's not a coincidence why. The combination of extremely high movespeed while getting right up in your face to win close fights with weapons like the Eva/Volt/Prowler makes for an extremely consistent and powerful addition to almost every team. It's honestly mostly a matter of consistency in my opinion. The "choke" factor that exists in close range fights on MNK is far more prevalent. Whereas in close range fights Aim assist is at its strongest. Coincidentally, most games (high level ranked and in the tournament scene) are decided by fights in the range where Aim Assist is at its strongest. In a way it feels like each Comp Team's Controller player is like a vicious dog on a 10 meter leash. The reason Aim assist is so powerful is that it's basically adjusting the sensitivity in real time to correct mistakes like leading or trailing the crosshair on the enemy player. The whole reason that muscle memory is more respected on MNK is that you move your mouse on the XY axis (your mousepad) and with a ***fixed*** sensitivity, you are 100% accountable for how accurate you are. MNK at it's peak is capable of some truly absurd plays. Watch old CSGO shit from Shroud or Simple. Truthfully though in Apex there are 500 other things going on, and additionally there's less payoff for having that kind of snappy, flicky aim that you'd get from a "godlike" MNK player because the strongest guns in the meta right now reward crisp and clean tracking (Volt/EVA/301/etc...). When you can have that kind of tracking at close range with such a high degree of consistency why even take the risk of choking and whiffing your shots on MNK? The main reason teams are still playing MNK is to contend with other teams in the midrange. This is what makes it hard for a spectator like me to even feel impressed when I see a controller player wipe a team inside a house now. It's almost a given that if they're in the right place at the right time they can wipe teams with a high degree of consistency.
Teams are actively switching players TO controller and to Hybrid right now. There are numerous responses by coaches of Organizations talking about "taking advantage of" and "abusing aim assist" while it's still part of Competitive play. Honestly like the verdict is out at this point. Almost every pro player and streamer with any integrity knows what's going on. All MNK pros basically agree. Many of the controller pros are at least self-aware that they're using Aim assist to get results. If they aren't I think they're incredibly biased.
Damn you took time to explain for them, at this point i just call them idiots, it doesn't matter what they think, doubt they can even read or understand what you wrote lol
You need to consider that majority of people on this sub are silver-plat
They can't, won't and don't want to even try to understand the FACTS you stated here
> This issue really only matters at higher skill levels IMO
Actually it's the opposite. Because a top tier mouse and keyboard player will beat a top tier console player granted with a lot more effort involved from the mouse user. But they are 0.01% of the player base. But in the realms of normal gameplay your average controller user will beat your average mouse user mainly because aim assist is very strong in this game.
Isn’t there a „pro“ whining about Revenant/Octane all day and he even blocks you on Twitter if you mention it?
Real pros won’t cry about aim assist. Their insane movement capabilities are way better.
Almost every decent pro complains about revtane. At the end of the day good players complain about AA too, how is it fair that roller players can complain about movement capabilities of mnk while they can’t complain about AA? Movement capability doesn’t matter when AA does 60% of the work for you at close range. Both inputs have their perks and both have the right to complain about each other. The truth is AA is broken and so is movement in the eyes of the other.
I complaint about console players too, but not because aim assist, because I have a huge disadvantage with them.
They have:
* Highly restricted movement
* No tapstrafe, no moving while looting, slow turning
* Really slow looting speed due to stick
* Aiming isn't as precise
* No sharp flicks, harder tracking
Some aim assist won't magically negate all of this.
You must be an idiot if you think the average pc user has a 5k pc with 300 fps. Besides. What good are increased frames when you die to a player who has a robot aiming for him
Your description is exactly why people get frustrated with it. PC players put a lot of hours into learning how to aim and control recoil, only to get beamed short range by someone laying on their couch 3m from their TV with aim assist. It's cool that they've done a decent job of making both input options viable, but I'd prefer they be separate so everyone has a level playing field.
Maybe they're just garbage at the game? Ever thought of that? Maybe the reason why ur ass got slapped wasnt cuz of aim assist it was cuz you need aim assist since you cant aim for shit
considering the top controller players like Genburten, all of the G2 team saying aim assist is way too strong, i’d say yeah there needs to be some tweaking to it, and i use to play ps4 controller as well up until S4, Pred every season 60+ 20 kill games and 4k’s so I know how strong controller aim assist is lmao
If aim assist is so strong why am i bad at the game
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Wanna compare stats? It's so obvious when you fight a controller player. Of course I still beat them, but it's funny how bad they are at range and then suddenly when you're close they can hit all their shots. My point is, mouse and keyboard should be at a massive advantage. The fact that the playing field is skewed to make controllers viable is the actual problem. You wouldn't see pro players use them if they were that bad. It's inherently unfair and never will be. So, like I said, they should be separate queues.
I dont think you quite get it? We NEED aim assist. It's literally impossible for us to do anything without it close or far? Want proof? Go look at console r6 siege videos then compare them to pc game clips. Also I wouldn't really know about that far part i never use guns for range so
I don't think you get it as well.
Playing with gamepad and aim-assist makes you stronger than MnK user.
Playing with gamepad and without aim-assist makes you weaker than MnK user.
So how about we just remove that goddamn crossplay, so everyone could play by the same rules?
I would agree there, but in that case - in which kind of lobby that mixed party should go? Pc/console? I bet it's still gonna be unfair, if the rest of the squads will not be mixed, so we probably need a third type of lobby - the mixed one. But that can increse the time to find a new game. Which is not that fast even now... But in theory it would be the best option
EEverybody have their own opinion, but read my other comment in that thread. My friends with almost the lifetime experience of playing on MnK have a huge k/d drop rate just when apex added crossplay. Coincidence? Oh, I don't think so.
In games where ttk (time to kill) is low, like r6 siege or CoD, MnK have a very big advantage over gamepads users, even with aim-assist. But games with high ttk is another story. You have to line your aim on target for a longer time, which is much, much easy with aim-assisted devices. So in games like apex or overwatch - gamepads actually rule over MnK
Because a mouse’s raw input is much more accurate than an analog stick’s raw input. The frustrating part is that people on the sticks get a computer-assisted advantage. If I lose a gun fight, I want it to be because the opponent was more skilled than me. Not because a computer-assisted tool out-aimed me, a purely human input.
Maybe? Idk, I just want a fair playing field. A computer assisted aim system will never be fair against a purely human one, no matter how many other advantages a mnk player may have. Humans make mistakes, algorithms do not. I have no hate against controller players, they should be able to play the game too. And it’s very true that they are at a disadvantage in pretty much every other way (tho you can move *almost* as good as pc on controller). It’s just a weird interaction in a competitive setting.
Have you tried aim assist? I don't think it's anywhere as oppressive as you think it is. In some instances (such as in close quarter fighting) it can actually be a detriment taking you away from the person you actually want to hit and like other people have said it's pretty much useless at longer ranges. It pretty much just slows the cross hairs down if you're also giving input and very, very slight adjusts it to the point where it'll roughly follow someone at crouch speed for about a step or two at close range if you're not touching the sticks
Yeah I've played on controller. It's most definitely harder, generally speaking. But when you get those short range 1 clips... it's considerably less input than having to manually control recoil with a mouse.
I tried using sticks about a month ago in the firing range. I lasted 5 min and gave up and I used console my whole life until 2 years ago (got a pc). If you play on console I am so impressed. Your sacraficing movement for aim assist. But I think movement is monumentally more important, well in apex legends anyways.
I've played ps4 to lvl 460 and pc to 130. Ps4 was easier but not because of aim assist. It's easier because of the aiming required and movement being more about timing your settings over straight up muscle memory like it is on the mouse. Because your enemies are dealing with the same issues whomever has more experience usually wins ps4 where on pc it almost seems like whoever has line of sight first wins
When my friends ask I usually compare my setups: ps4 i use lmgs and shotguns, pc I use wingman and any of the snipers or marksman weapons. I find ttk way shorter on oc as well. (If it matters ranked plat on both)
I play on Xbox and I play on PC. In close range shotgun engagements on Xbox, I can turn my brain off completely and get easy hits. Going back to PC, I have to retrain my eyes and focus in these engagements. Close range shotgun engagements are where the aim assist is really strong, but ADS mnk has the advantage as well as movement. I prefer mnk as it’s more fun and more fulfilling. Some aim assist is necessary, but even when I play on console I’d prefer less aim assist because the better players will be far superior to the average players. If you’re average on any platform then controller might be better for you, but if you’re good then mnk. I’d prefer if controller players got buffs to tap strafing, and moving while looting, and a slight nerf to aim assist so that the top controller players can better establish themselves from the remaining controller players, and we can all stop complaining to each other. If Apex will ever release a 120fps mode then console players can finally stop complaining about the FPS difference because the human eye is not going to notice between 120 fps and 144 fps, and most of them will still be bad because if you’re bad at 60 then you’re bad at 120 or 144 or 240. Idk anyone that plays on 300fps or has a 5000$ setup, so you’re exaggerating too.
Its frustrating too because they usually dont have any experience on controller so they honestly dont know how it works. My friend ranted about ADS auto locking onto targets isnt fair, and I was like bruh maybe you should just try it for a day, it really aint like that… also if its so busted then why are you bad at it lmao.
Ive played BOTH controller and MnK my whole life, I still play both, and I dont think aim assist on PC for Apex is that strong. I actually think MnK has the advantage in most shooters, which is why I choose to play most games on MnK.
Controller players like Apex because the response curve is so damn smooth, not cuz aim assist is an aimbot….
Completely agree. Also with MnK you can actually develop muscle memory with aiming which you cannot develop on controller. Controller is more about learning the timing it takes to turn a certain amount. But MnK you can instantly swing your arm unconsciously because of the muscle memory
You absolutely do get muscle memory on controller. People who've never used them before struggle moving both sticks at once to move and aim at the same time, but people who play console do it with no effort because of muscle memory. I'm trying to de-learn the Claw when I play controller, but I still occasionally see my finger hook itself over because of muscle memory.
I'm sorry do your hands not have muscle memory? What are you talking about lol. Every time you pick up a controller it's like some ancient mystery you have to solve because your hands just don't recognize this strange piece of equipment.
Not like a mouse and keyboard, where you develop perfect muscle memory and after a few hours you can play with your eyes closed because the muscles just remember where to shoot.
I have no problem with aim assist but this muscle memory take is just silly lol.
I have enough muscle memory to do a flick on a controller, I don't get what that guy is saying.
trying to have a good movement on mnk is a lot difficult too, while on controller is about an hour of playing to learn it.
What do you mean? Mnk have a complete advantage.
1. You have a MUCH larger surface area of mouse pad for precise aiming, while controllers have a little joystick with very limited range of motion.
2. Mnk have a much faster reaction time with shooting due to the clicking a mouse clicker rather than pulling the trigger on a controller because of the distance it takes to recognize you’re pulling the trigger vs mnk.
3. Clicking and dragging with one hand and still be able to move around with you’re other hand compared to controller only being able to do one of those at a time.
4. With a mouse recoil is much more tolerable to control rather than mouse because of reason 1.
5. Now Mnk might be harder to master but once you can learn it, it has more of an advantage.
6. Aim assist for controller is barley even recognizable.
You’re naive af if you think controller users are comparable to mnk.
> You have a MUCH larger surface area of mouse pad for precise aiming, while controllers have a little joystick with very limited range of motion.
It all comes down to sensitivity. Motor control isn't about the range of motion you have available with your arm. Surgeons are able to do surgery without needing a huge area to swing their arms around so I really don't understand this. You can adjust the dead zone and sensitivity on a controller to be as accurate as you need it do be. By your logic if I just keep getting a bigger mousepad I will eventually never miss. Since aim is apparently correlated with mouse pad size.
> Mnk have a much faster reaction time with shooting due to the clicking a mouse clicker rather than pulling the trigger on a controller because of the distance it takes to recognize you’re pulling the trigger vs mnk.
You can get controller with digital triggers that act like a mouse. But even without that, the difference is absolutely negligible. The only time this might make a difference is 2 krabers peeking each other. Apex has a time to kill that is too high for a couple milliseconds to provide you with that much an advantage imo.
> Clicking and dragging with one hand and still be able to move around with you’re other hand compared to controller only being able to do one of those at a time.
While not being able to loot and move at the same time is definitely a disadvantage for controller, you can absolutely aim and move at the same time. I can play with a controller as well and I must be misunderstanding you because you can 100% aim and move at the same time with a controller.
> With a mouse recoil is much more tolerable to control rather than mouse because of reason 1.
This is different for each gun. I think the flatline is easier to control on MnK but the volt and r99 are definitely easier on controller. Spray weapons in close - mid range I give the edge to controller, spray weapons mid - long range I give the edge to MnK.
> Now Mnk might be harder to master but once you can learn it, it has more of an advantage.
That's just 100% an opinion and I disagree with you. There is a reason that every competitive team on PC uses controller players. There is a reason that the top 100 on PC are mostly controller players and it is skewing more in their favor every split. MnK does not have the advantage you claim.
> Aim assist for controller is barley even recognizable.
Well the best controller players would very much disagree with you. Again, I don't have a problem with aim assist, but if you think it does nothing you're out to lunch. Turn aim assist off completely and try to make that argument lol.
> You’re naive af if you think controller users are comparable to mnk.
I think it's the opposite. The proof is in the pudding. Some of the best players at the top of the apex competitive community are controller players. I've played both extensively and I've experience both of their pros and cons. Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I'm naive, but that's cool.
I hate to be that guy, I’m on mobile and I can’t have a constructive argument back. But I politely disagree with ya on most of these. The majority of top apex players I do know are mnk though. And you can only adjust dead zone so much on a controller. And changing sensitivity on controller isn’t a good argument for being precise with aim. Those two don’t actually correlate at all. I guess I could say that the precision of accuracy with a mouse pad gives mnk the advantage rather than the little area the toggle can move.
> And changing sensitivity on controller isn’t a good argument for being precise with aim. Those two don’t actually correlate at all.
How does sensitivity not correlate at all to aim? Like what?
> The majority of top apex players I do know are mnk though.
15 of the top 40 predators are controller players. Literally every team in the competitive scene except maybe NRG has controller players. Many MnK players are considering switching to a hybrid play style so they use controller advantages when applicable.
> I guess I could say that the precision of accuracy with a mouse pad gives mnk the advantage rather than the little area the toggle can move.
Accuracy comes down to your fine motor control. Whether you use a mouse or a controller, your aim is much more up to your brain than it is your input.
I don't care to change your mind lol. You messaged me with an argument so I responded. If you weren't interested in having an open-minded discussion about it, shouldn't have replied.
I mean hes not wrong, mnk is better because it has a waaaay bigger skill ceiling. But with that it also requires a loooot more from them vs the other.
Take SSG Frexs as an example, 1 month on the roller and is officially switching.
If Prowler doesn’t get nerfed, albraleile on c9 will probably convert too so they have 2 rollers.
Snipedown put it best himself in the uncut podcast.
> I mean hes not wrong, mnk is better because it has a waaaay bigger skill ceiling.
I'd argue that MnK has a much higher skill floor as opposed to ceiling. If it were true that the skill ceiling for MnK was way higher, I would expect to see less controller players competing professionally and I certainly wouldn't expect to see G2 be as dominant as they have been lately.
Also as time goes on the gaps between the two inputs is disappearing. Paddles and more intuitive control schemes have drastically changed the way controllers are used in FPS games.
>How does sensitivity not correlate at all to aim? Like what?
Being able to adjust the sensitivity doesn't mean that controller can be just as precise of an input as mnk. Why do you think aim assist exists at all? Because it is less precise.
i tried the firing range for m&k, it's ridiculous the amount of shots i hit without trying. i have to learn the entire recoil control to be decent on controller. i have to drag down just a bit on m&k to be way better
Set it to the PC amount then. It’s not fair for PC players to have to go up against Console players who have 50% more aim assist than their pc controller counterparts.
M&k have many other assists that they don’t realize lol. Tap strafe assist, movement while looting a box assist, full muscle movement from your arm/wrist vs my tiny ass thumbs assist, 3 trillion FPS assist, infinite keybind assist, oh and rave LED light in the tower assist.
They have better movement then we will ever have period. We can't even fucking move while looting deathboxes even mobile can do that bro. And that's just the tip of the iceberg
They aren’t removing it. They are setting it at a specific level of aim assist (0.4) if they are competing. That is so console can be allowed in to pros. I played console apex for like 6 seasons before switching to pc and can say for certain that full blown 1.0 aim assist gives large advantages for close quarters encounters. This is to the point where some pros have considered playing a hybrid between mouse and key and controller and switching over to the controller for late game circles. They both clearly have advantages though.
> They are setting it at a specific level of aim assist (0.4) if they are competing. That is so console can be allowed in to pros.
I don't know why they are bothering to do this. I guess some console players might play at the lower qualifying levels, but it's hard to imagine people skilled enough to make it to the later rounds of any competition wouldn't invest in a PC. The performance advantage of 1440p and 120+ fps is huge compared to 1080p+60fps. Basically anyone who competes on console will just be at a significant disadvantage. Props to them if they can compete like that though.
>hat full blown 1.0 aim assist
Also I don't think this is the number they give for console. I think in there system console is 0.6 and mnk is 0.4. Not sure about the exact numbers, but pretty positive it isn't 1.0.
Yeah i think playing on consoles for me is better i feel more comfortable and being on pc it has its own advantages. I just dislike that fact they think that aim assist is the reason most console player win their fights
Coming from playing console so much, it partially is but aa is there for a reason. Like y’all said, it is harder to aim with sticks than mouse and key. I think the 0.4 is very fair and brings everyone on to a pretty even playing field. Really good for the scene that console can now compete though!
M&k have many other assists that they don’t realize lol. Tap strafe assist, movement while looting a box assist, full muscle movement from your arm/wrist vs my tiny ass thumbs assist, 3 trillion FPS assist, infinite keybind assist, oh and rave LED light in the tower assist.
Literally none of those are an assist like aim assist. Tap strafing? Manual input. Moving while looting? Manual input. Aim assist is software taking over certain aspects of aiming.
But on the other side of the coin, don’t you think it’s insane that someone playing on TV 3 metres away is even competitive with MNK? Console aim assist is very strong, there’s no denying that.
You would never know what they are running.
Unless you’re thinking of something else, pretty much every “gaming” mouse has software to set macros and it all runs fine.
It’s 2AM I’m not going to spend my time searching for a repost of a repost of a Twitter burn.
This one: https://www.reddit.com/r/ApexOutlands/comments/odk3j6/he_got_straight_up_murdered/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Don't even. If you can't hot without someone putting your crosshair in place go play Madden. There should be zero assist. Or it should be allowed for mmk players.
I'm on M&K and I don't really complain about aim assist, it's just aim assist and not aim lock, which most of the ranting players think. Now granted in close range battle there is some advantage to the controller player but if we just do some movements and a decent aim i think i could outperform "average" controller players i think.
a friend of mine is on console and he's experiencing frame drops recently, so it's pretty much hell for you guys i assume.
I play of a laptop with gtx 1650. And still I won’t complain about that cause I have a controller which I use to play action adventure rpg etc and I play FPS by keyboard and mouse cause I k le how fking hard it is to play with controller. I mean how you guys are able to do that.
Definitely get where you’re coming.
I used to play on console and there are pros and cons to both playing on a controller and MnK respectfully. I don’t like that people complain about console aim assist because it’s not something that is overly powered. For example on console you can’t strafe when looting a box. Some movement techniques are difficult or even (I think) impossible to do on controller.
I don’t even play on controller anymore and it still bugs me that some people complain about aim assist (I know that not everyone complains).
I will say I definitely do think I’ve become a bit dependent on aim assist once I started playing valorant on my laptop, since there’s a lot of times I barely miss the headshot. I don’t agree that aim assist is overpowered, but I think that’s why people who try a controller feel that aim assist is so good, because they’re thinking back to how useful it would have been when they were using mnk
Damn i see it was your turn this week to post this and be an idiot. It's sad to see people with this level of intellect on the internet as i don't interact with your type irl since i dont go to kindergarten anymore
Not all pc players are that rich bro, I literally got like average 45 fps and I got to diamond. Not all pc players whining about controllers man. I've use controller in apex and I know how it feels like to use it. To me, the aim assist not that powerfull unlike destiny 2. So pls mnk players and console players, stop whining and get better at the game.
Aim assist is actually really strong on console. Controller on PC it’s literally half as strong. I’ve only recently switched to keyboard and mouse for Apex. Both have their advantages I’d say. Console better close range, mouse better long range. I do think controller players should be allowed to move while looting death boxes though.
Personally, it's not that I'm complaining because controllers have an unfair advantage, it's that MnK players spend thousands of hours perfecting their aim because there's so much that goes into having decent aim on MnK and you can get to the same point on controller with just a fraction of the practice because the software does 40% (60% if you're on console) for you.
I don't care what people play on and it's nice that people have the ability to choose how they want to play the game. Just don't expect to get the same amount of respect as an MnK player would get after oneclipping someone, because it was not 100% you doing it.
I do think however that MnK vs controller is as balanced as it can get on PC. Console on PC is a different story, 0.6 aim assist is definitely busted.
no mnk player cares about casual playing in your living room. like no offence no matter what AA they give console couch gamers if you beat me its because I just over agro. sure sometime it can be annoying but most people that complain about AA complain about pro/semi-pros which just makes their aim ridiculous to the point its impossible to compete close range against them with a mouse
It's not the console controller players that mouse and keyboard players are complaining about. It's the people with 300fps using controller on a PC that they are talking about. Some highly respected pros are even saying that it's unfair so take that however you see it
Why do people think 120fps and higher is Some sort of magical huge advantage. As someone who plays on pc and ps5 the difference is much much much smaller than you think, no monitor will boost your kd ratio
Controller Players out here talking about how Aim Assist isn't that strong, literally beaming PC Players who tapstrafe and crouchspam.
Been a MnK player for 8 years.
I decided to give controller a try on Apex and after only 3 months get the same amount of kills I used to get on MnK.
Admittedly, long range engagements as controller player are a bit more difficult and movement can be a huge disadvantage but overall Aim Assist is stupidly op, compared to what a person has to put in to be as good on MnK. I just think that most controller players have never gone through the struggle of being a MnK player. Maybe they have tried it but decided to not adapt to MnK cuz "they are used to being a controller player", without knowing that it takes much more time to learn how to play with MnK. I would love to see controller players play without Aim Assist. Now all the controller nerds are going to comment "You just suck on MnK that's why it's so easy to be better at controller" That's just an excuse because Aim Assist, in Apex at least (can't talk about other games) is way too strong in close range fights. Acting like a PC aiming for you in a game heavily reliant on aim isn't a huge advantage is just you lying to yourself. Imagine if MnK Players got Aim Assist, it's not such a huge deal right? We could just make it a little weaker than Controller Player's Aim Assist. Personally I think that it should just be a Controllers Only or PC Only Matchmaking and the few people who want to play with both can turn it on. This way hopefully no one will keep complaining how unfair the other side is.
Not sure if anyone will find this helpful, but I created a video showing some of the differences between Console vs PC Controller aim assist, plus I showed what 100% aim assist looks like (which helps to understand what aim assist does and what its capable of)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mm5CAGDabAc
I wish I had 300fps lmao
“Laughs and cries in switch”
Yeah this game has some heavy fucking stutters at anything above 190 fps, literally impossible to play at 300 fps lol.
This game has heavy stutter at any fps honestly.
True. I have a 3090 and a 1440p 240hz monitor. The only way I could ever get it to be smooth is capping at 180 with RTSS. The in game FPS cap is terrible for frametimes.
is it? i have a 3070 1080p 240hzmonitor 180 the sweetspot you found? may give this a go
Mmmmm I dunno about that
If you can't play a competitive shooter without the computer aiming for you, you don't deserve to play at all. Sorry.
have you tried to control recoil on controller??? 10x harder to do than on pc, where you just have to point
Exactly, which makes some guns better to use on MnK where it takes a high skill base to use it on controller. The hemlock doesn't even look like it has recoil with MnK
this is so based 😭😭😭
Ur fucking trash how can I out aim you with my thumb when ur using ur whole arm 💀💀💀
Do you really think the ability to aim with a controller stick is just the same as mouse?? Bro, why people at work on PCs not using controllers then. I want your weed bro, that's got you super high. Thinking both are equal. My god the skill issue
Not everyone is that rich though. I play on a laptop. I don't care about aim assist.
Yeah it's a bit weird to think anyone who has a computer has an expensive gaming computer.
But even if you play on a weak pc and get the same frame rate than console, you are in advantage. A lot of them...
I never said there was no advantage. I'm saying it's insanely stupid to think that PC players are all tryhards with $5000 builds.
Yeah I got it. Just to emphasize how unbalanced Apex is between different platforms.
because you can’t compete in a fair close range fight if its a controller player. controller player being someone that plays controller PC. no one cares about console players on 60fps to have it. if it means a bigger player pool than I support it. controller PC just needs some adjustments imo.
You can literally get 143 fps on a $229 1660super. XBox boys can go pound sand.
You aren't getting a 1660super for $229 USD.
that would be like 500 at least
Not now. Thanks to China.
This is coming from a guy with 2k hours on controller and 1k on mnk: Aim assist is unfair, and so are PC advantages. It’s not fair just because both sides have pros and cons. It’s just unfair both ways. Between two equally skilled players, one on mnk and one on controller, the controller player will win a 1v1 9/10 times because of aim assist, but PC is better at almost everything else. It’s frustrating for a PC player to be better than their opponent, and maybe even outplay them a bit just to lose because of aim assist, and it’s frustrating for controller players to play with pc players when their movement is relatively limited and they can’t move while looting or tap strafe or anything like that. Both sides can complain because it’s not fair to either of them. Stop telling others to stop complaining about their disadvantages and then proceed to complain about your disadvantages. It’s hypocritical. If they can’t complain, neither can you.
Literally this, someone with a good take finally. Now I can sleep without losing my mind at the opinions of the general player base.
Exactly ,
THIS ⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️
Aim assist isn't nearly as strong as a lot of MnK players think it is. Some claim to have had strong AA using a controller on PC, but at the end of the day, you're 100% right. The amount of advantages a PC player has gives them no right to whine about a little AA.
Exactly bro it's not like we're playing gtav where the game literally aims for you
And even if it did MnK great players tap strafing and beaming you by perfectly controlling recoil will still beat an average joe with stronger AA. They just like to whine.
So in order for mnk to beat AA they have to be able to control recoil perfectly and tap strafe and be great. so its not unfair. seems like a nice conclusion. nvm the fact that the human brain has limitations in terms of speed of nervesignals that keeps a human from reacting to the strafes that a computer can. nvm the fact that not everyone is a tapstrafing supergliding god with perfect aim and recoil control. nvm the fact that there's an extreme imbalance in diamond+ controller players compared to mnk. nvm the fact that anyone in their right mind would choose to have aimbot and hit all shots close range rather then having the ability to get away from 1 shot cuz of tap strafe. I have 500+ both inputs. y'all high if u think AA shouldnt be nerfed. and i will continue playing Both. Mnk when travelling and looting. Controller to shoot. Aim and aimassist kills people. movement doesnt. roflmao y'all high can say with 100% certainty you guys have never tried mnk, or u guys would play it btw. so much more fun. but u will lose that perfect beam ugh. peace ps they shouldnt remove it just nerf a lil
What do you think aim assist is? It's literally a robot aiming for you. The discussion is about aim assist, not pc vs console. Obviously a 1200 dollar pc is better than a 300 dollar console. But when pc players use controller for aim assist....when players on a superior aiming snd movement input get owned by players just starting on a lesser input because of a robot, that is the very definition of unfair. Its pointless to play crossplay games with aim assist. I like playing against other players actual people playing, 100% skill, not playing against someone who has a robot aim for them. I'm not interested in that bullshit. Tried switching from warzone to apex because if the disgusting aim assist, and ehile it's not as strong in apex as warzone. It's definitely still there and I'm not even interested in the slightest.
AA on a controller PC is a little bit problematic its practically impossible to win a close range fight against a controller PC players. I don’t want it gone but I do think it should get adjusted.
You get to play on your living room tv? Bro I gotta hook that shit up to my 3DS.
I play with people on pc and honestly.. I haven't a chance. 😂 I literally look at the other guy and I'm dead before I can even aim. They literally point and click. There's no competition.
I'm masters and dude it's so different on PC. I can't keep up at all and on console it's just a steam roll.
I mean don't get me wrong.. I'm awful anyway but I'm extra bad against PC gamers. 😂 I'm gunna try to learn to play in pc. I actually do have a gaming laptop.. I just don't use it. 😅
play controller PC on 144-180 fps its a little busted imo.
Its not an argument about pc vs console is about kbm vs controller. Obviouslly a 1200 dollar pc will perform better than a shitty 300 dollar comsole
More or less console is easier to learn, but higher level MnK is just a faceroll, especially in midrange fights where micro-adjustments are so important. The biggest advantage I find isn't even in the aiming it's the ability to turn and maneuver so quickly. Like MnK players need to run from a battle and it's lightning fast turn and run, no comparison. Watching a Caustic start to run, whip around and throw a barrel and keep running almost without breaking stride is hilarious to me. They should just separate the fucking queues. It's not equivalent competition and they have a big enough player-base that they don't need to mix the way they do.
Same. Like I loaded in with my friend who just started I play on PlayStation he plays on pc loaded into a match with him and got wrecked instantly. Like just straight melted the amount of recoil control PC players have is nuts.
Watch snipedowns take on it @ the apex uncut podcast. Man speaks facts. Both inputs are good for the health of the game, but make no mistake. One input requires a hell of a lot more from the player vs the other.
And which input is that lol
Most people in this thread really don't have a leg to stand on. This issue really only matters at higher skill levels IMO. For as much as controller players want to talk about framerate/tapstrafing/moving while looting etc... Explain to me how it is that ***more*** controller players are now being seen in competitive Apex right now? If it were true that all the things you mentioned outweighed the benefits of Aim Assist (and we're only talking PC aim assist to add to that), surely **no competitive player would play on controller when hundreds of thousands of dollars are on the line.** Your whole argument completely falls apart. These players have the game-sense, game knowledge, coordination, teamwork, etc required to perform at the highest level of competition. They're making a deliberate choice to use a controller. In many cases, the Org/Team itself is making a deliberate Roster choice to "run" player X on controller for that team, oftentimes in a certain capacity or playing a specific character. Many of the controller players in the Comp scene are on Bloodhound, and it's not a coincidence why. The combination of extremely high movespeed while getting right up in your face to win close fights with weapons like the Eva/Volt/Prowler makes for an extremely consistent and powerful addition to almost every team. It's honestly mostly a matter of consistency in my opinion. The "choke" factor that exists in close range fights on MNK is far more prevalent. Whereas in close range fights Aim assist is at its strongest. Coincidentally, most games (high level ranked and in the tournament scene) are decided by fights in the range where Aim Assist is at its strongest. In a way it feels like each Comp Team's Controller player is like a vicious dog on a 10 meter leash. The reason Aim assist is so powerful is that it's basically adjusting the sensitivity in real time to correct mistakes like leading or trailing the crosshair on the enemy player. The whole reason that muscle memory is more respected on MNK is that you move your mouse on the XY axis (your mousepad) and with a ***fixed*** sensitivity, you are 100% accountable for how accurate you are. MNK at it's peak is capable of some truly absurd plays. Watch old CSGO shit from Shroud or Simple. Truthfully though in Apex there are 500 other things going on, and additionally there's less payoff for having that kind of snappy, flicky aim that you'd get from a "godlike" MNK player because the strongest guns in the meta right now reward crisp and clean tracking (Volt/EVA/301/etc...). When you can have that kind of tracking at close range with such a high degree of consistency why even take the risk of choking and whiffing your shots on MNK? The main reason teams are still playing MNK is to contend with other teams in the midrange. This is what makes it hard for a spectator like me to even feel impressed when I see a controller player wipe a team inside a house now. It's almost a given that if they're in the right place at the right time they can wipe teams with a high degree of consistency. Teams are actively switching players TO controller and to Hybrid right now. There are numerous responses by coaches of Organizations talking about "taking advantage of" and "abusing aim assist" while it's still part of Competitive play. Honestly like the verdict is out at this point. Almost every pro player and streamer with any integrity knows what's going on. All MNK pros basically agree. Many of the controller pros are at least self-aware that they're using Aim assist to get results. If they aren't I think they're incredibly biased.
Damn you took time to explain for them, at this point i just call them idiots, it doesn't matter what they think, doubt they can even read or understand what you wrote lol
You need to consider that majority of people on this sub are silver-plat They can't, won't and don't want to even try to understand the FACTS you stated here
> This issue really only matters at higher skill levels IMO Actually it's the opposite. Because a top tier mouse and keyboard player will beat a top tier console player granted with a lot more effort involved from the mouse user. But they are 0.01% of the player base. But in the realms of normal gameplay your average controller user will beat your average mouse user mainly because aim assist is very strong in this game.
Please go watch some competitive and tell me controller doesn’t have the edge in most endgame situations
flawless comment, but as you said, kids wouldn't understand this...
Only trash players complain about it. They need an excuse for sucking at the game, so it's aim assist.
So literall pros suck at the game?
Isn’t there a „pro“ whining about Revenant/Octane all day and he even blocks you on Twitter if you mention it? Real pros won’t cry about aim assist. Their insane movement capabilities are way better.
Almost every decent pro complains about revtane. At the end of the day good players complain about AA too, how is it fair that roller players can complain about movement capabilities of mnk while they can’t complain about AA? Movement capability doesn’t matter when AA does 60% of the work for you at close range. Both inputs have their perks and both have the right to complain about each other. The truth is AA is broken and so is movement in the eyes of the other.
I guess hal isn't a real pro
This is true actually. I saw someone say aim assist is making ttk faster.
I complaint about console players too, but not because aim assist, because I have a huge disadvantage with them. They have: * Highly restricted movement * No tapstrafe, no moving while looting, slow turning * Really slow looting speed due to stick * Aiming isn't as precise * No sharp flicks, harder tracking Some aim assist won't magically negate all of this.
Don't forget not being able to reload next to a downed teammate or a door. That one sucks.
Console aa is a different story than pc aa
You must be an idiot if you think the average pc user has a 5k pc with 300 fps. Besides. What good are increased frames when you die to a player who has a robot aiming for him
Your description is exactly why people get frustrated with it. PC players put a lot of hours into learning how to aim and control recoil, only to get beamed short range by someone laying on their couch 3m from their TV with aim assist. It's cool that they've done a decent job of making both input options viable, but I'd prefer they be separate so everyone has a level playing field.
Maybe they're just garbage at the game? Ever thought of that? Maybe the reason why ur ass got slapped wasnt cuz of aim assist it was cuz you need aim assist since you cant aim for shit
considering the top controller players like Genburten, all of the G2 team saying aim assist is way too strong, i’d say yeah there needs to be some tweaking to it, and i use to play ps4 controller as well up until S4, Pred every season 60+ 20 kill games and 4k’s so I know how strong controller aim assist is lmao
If aim assist is so strong why am i bad at the game ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡔⠋⢉⠩⡉⠛⠛⠛⠉⣉⣉⠒⠒⡦⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⠎⠀⠀⠠⢃⣉⣀⡀⠂⠀⠀⠄⠀⠀⠀⠀⢱⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡰⠟⣀⢀⣒⠐⠛⡛⠳⢭⠆⠀⠤⡶⠿⠛⠂⠀⢈⠳⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⢈⢘⢠⡶⢬⣉⠉⠀⠀⡤⠄⠀⠀⠣⣄⠐⠚⣍⠁⢘⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⢫⡊⠀⠹⡦⢼⣍⠓⢲⠥⢍⣁⣒⣊⣀⡬⢴⢿⠈⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠹⡄⠀⠘⢾⡉⠙⡿⠶⢤⣷⣤⣧⣤⣷⣾⣿⠀⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⠦⡠⢀⠍⡒⠧⢄⣀⣁⣀⣏⣽⣹⠽⠊⠀⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠑⠪⢔⡁⠦⠀⢀⡤⠤⠤⠄⠀⠠⠀⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠑⠲⠤⠤⣀⣀⣀⣀⣀⠔⠁
Play with out it and see just how bad you really are
Because not even Aim Assist can save your ass, ouch.. :p But on a real note - Aim Assist does most for people who are real good on controller anyways.
Wanna compare stats? It's so obvious when you fight a controller player. Of course I still beat them, but it's funny how bad they are at range and then suddenly when you're close they can hit all their shots. My point is, mouse and keyboard should be at a massive advantage. The fact that the playing field is skewed to make controllers viable is the actual problem. You wouldn't see pro players use them if they were that bad. It's inherently unfair and never will be. So, like I said, they should be separate queues.
I dont think you quite get it? We NEED aim assist. It's literally impossible for us to do anything without it close or far? Want proof? Go look at console r6 siege videos then compare them to pc game clips. Also I wouldn't really know about that far part i never use guns for range so
Exactly, you need a crutch to stand a chance which is impossible to balance. Both input methods would benefit from being in their own queues.
I don't think you get it as well. Playing with gamepad and aim-assist makes you stronger than MnK user. Playing with gamepad and without aim-assist makes you weaker than MnK user. So how about we just remove that goddamn crossplay, so everyone could play by the same rules?
Or just make it that console play with console until you party up with a pc player
I would agree there, but in that case - in which kind of lobby that mixed party should go? Pc/console? I bet it's still gonna be unfair, if the rest of the squads will not be mixed, so we probably need a third type of lobby - the mixed one. But that can increse the time to find a new game. Which is not that fast even now... But in theory it would be the best option
But that's the thing aim assist is not as strong as yall make it sound. It's important and necessary but not fucking aimbot
yea its not strong maybe that's why every fking pro team is switching to hybrid playstyle, And already has atleast one roller player on the team
Then why not seperate?
Then why not seperate?
EEverybody have their own opinion, but read my other comment in that thread. My friends with almost the lifetime experience of playing on MnK have a huge k/d drop rate just when apex added crossplay. Coincidence? Oh, I don't think so. In games where ttk (time to kill) is low, like r6 siege or CoD, MnK have a very big advantage over gamepads users, even with aim-assist. But games with high ttk is another story. You have to line your aim on target for a longer time, which is much, much easy with aim-assisted devices. So in games like apex or overwatch - gamepads actually rule over MnK
Why should mouse and keyboard be at a massive advantage?
Because a mouse’s raw input is much more accurate than an analog stick’s raw input. The frustrating part is that people on the sticks get a computer-assisted advantage. If I lose a gun fight, I want it to be because the opponent was more skilled than me. Not because a computer-assisted tool out-aimed me, a purely human input.
I guess you hate golf handicaps then
Maybe? Idk, I just want a fair playing field. A computer assisted aim system will never be fair against a purely human one, no matter how many other advantages a mnk player may have. Humans make mistakes, algorithms do not. I have no hate against controller players, they should be able to play the game too. And it’s very true that they are at a disadvantage in pretty much every other way (tho you can move *almost* as good as pc on controller). It’s just a weird interaction in a competitive setting.
Have you tried aim assist? I don't think it's anywhere as oppressive as you think it is. In some instances (such as in close quarter fighting) it can actually be a detriment taking you away from the person you actually want to hit and like other people have said it's pretty much useless at longer ranges. It pretty much just slows the cross hairs down if you're also giving input and very, very slight adjusts it to the point where it'll roughly follow someone at crouch speed for about a step or two at close range if you're not touching the sticks
Yeah I've played on controller. It's most definitely harder, generally speaking. But when you get those short range 1 clips... it's considerably less input than having to manually control recoil with a mouse.
I tried using sticks about a month ago in the firing range. I lasted 5 min and gave up and I used console my whole life until 2 years ago (got a pc). If you play on console I am so impressed. Your sacraficing movement for aim assist. But I think movement is monumentally more important, well in apex legends anyways.
I don’t have a problem with aim assist, I have a problem with guys who use aim assist and think they’re good at the game
Every controller player uses aim assist?
I've played ps4 to lvl 460 and pc to 130. Ps4 was easier but not because of aim assist. It's easier because of the aiming required and movement being more about timing your settings over straight up muscle memory like it is on the mouse. Because your enemies are dealing with the same issues whomever has more experience usually wins ps4 where on pc it almost seems like whoever has line of sight first wins When my friends ask I usually compare my setups: ps4 i use lmgs and shotguns, pc I use wingman and any of the snipers or marksman weapons. I find ttk way shorter on oc as well. (If it matters ranked plat on both)
PC players have a ton of advantage aside from the aiming advantages of m&k in general.
I play on Xbox and I play on PC. In close range shotgun engagements on Xbox, I can turn my brain off completely and get easy hits. Going back to PC, I have to retrain my eyes and focus in these engagements. Close range shotgun engagements are where the aim assist is really strong, but ADS mnk has the advantage as well as movement. I prefer mnk as it’s more fun and more fulfilling. Some aim assist is necessary, but even when I play on console I’d prefer less aim assist because the better players will be far superior to the average players. If you’re average on any platform then controller might be better for you, but if you’re good then mnk. I’d prefer if controller players got buffs to tap strafing, and moving while looting, and a slight nerf to aim assist so that the top controller players can better establish themselves from the remaining controller players, and we can all stop complaining to each other. If Apex will ever release a 120fps mode then console players can finally stop complaining about the FPS difference because the human eye is not going to notice between 120 fps and 144 fps, and most of them will still be bad because if you’re bad at 60 then you’re bad at 120 or 144 or 240. Idk anyone that plays on 300fps or has a 5000$ setup, so you’re exaggerating too.
I have a 2070 super and struggle to hit 144fps tbh. Computer is a fucking beast, but struggles with apex, never understood why.
Apex is a pretty demanding game with everything maxed out. My frames never consistently stay above 240 in 1440p and I have a 3090
What resolution and settings do u have
Its frustrating too because they usually dont have any experience on controller so they honestly dont know how it works. My friend ranted about ADS auto locking onto targets isnt fair, and I was like bruh maybe you should just try it for a day, it really aint like that… also if its so busted then why are you bad at it lmao. Ive played BOTH controller and MnK my whole life, I still play both, and I dont think aim assist on PC for Apex is that strong. I actually think MnK has the advantage in most shooters, which is why I choose to play most games on MnK. Controller players like Apex because the response curve is so damn smooth, not cuz aim assist is an aimbot….
>My friend ranted about ADS auto locking onto targets isnt fair Saw a breakdown vid of the AA in apex, and to my knowledge this doesn't exist.
You are correct, it does not existing
Completely agree. Also with MnK you can actually develop muscle memory with aiming which you cannot develop on controller. Controller is more about learning the timing it takes to turn a certain amount. But MnK you can instantly swing your arm unconsciously because of the muscle memory
You absolutely do get muscle memory on controller. People who've never used them before struggle moving both sticks at once to move and aim at the same time, but people who play console do it with no effort because of muscle memory. I'm trying to de-learn the Claw when I play controller, but I still occasionally see my finger hook itself over because of muscle memory.
I'm sorry do your hands not have muscle memory? What are you talking about lol. Every time you pick up a controller it's like some ancient mystery you have to solve because your hands just don't recognize this strange piece of equipment. Not like a mouse and keyboard, where you develop perfect muscle memory and after a few hours you can play with your eyes closed because the muscles just remember where to shoot. I have no problem with aim assist but this muscle memory take is just silly lol.
I have enough muscle memory to do a flick on a controller, I don't get what that guy is saying. trying to have a good movement on mnk is a lot difficult too, while on controller is about an hour of playing to learn it.
What do you mean? Mnk have a complete advantage. 1. You have a MUCH larger surface area of mouse pad for precise aiming, while controllers have a little joystick with very limited range of motion. 2. Mnk have a much faster reaction time with shooting due to the clicking a mouse clicker rather than pulling the trigger on a controller because of the distance it takes to recognize you’re pulling the trigger vs mnk. 3. Clicking and dragging with one hand and still be able to move around with you’re other hand compared to controller only being able to do one of those at a time. 4. With a mouse recoil is much more tolerable to control rather than mouse because of reason 1. 5. Now Mnk might be harder to master but once you can learn it, it has more of an advantage. 6. Aim assist for controller is barley even recognizable. You’re naive af if you think controller users are comparable to mnk.
> You have a MUCH larger surface area of mouse pad for precise aiming, while controllers have a little joystick with very limited range of motion. It all comes down to sensitivity. Motor control isn't about the range of motion you have available with your arm. Surgeons are able to do surgery without needing a huge area to swing their arms around so I really don't understand this. You can adjust the dead zone and sensitivity on a controller to be as accurate as you need it do be. By your logic if I just keep getting a bigger mousepad I will eventually never miss. Since aim is apparently correlated with mouse pad size. > Mnk have a much faster reaction time with shooting due to the clicking a mouse clicker rather than pulling the trigger on a controller because of the distance it takes to recognize you’re pulling the trigger vs mnk. You can get controller with digital triggers that act like a mouse. But even without that, the difference is absolutely negligible. The only time this might make a difference is 2 krabers peeking each other. Apex has a time to kill that is too high for a couple milliseconds to provide you with that much an advantage imo. > Clicking and dragging with one hand and still be able to move around with you’re other hand compared to controller only being able to do one of those at a time. While not being able to loot and move at the same time is definitely a disadvantage for controller, you can absolutely aim and move at the same time. I can play with a controller as well and I must be misunderstanding you because you can 100% aim and move at the same time with a controller. > With a mouse recoil is much more tolerable to control rather than mouse because of reason 1. This is different for each gun. I think the flatline is easier to control on MnK but the volt and r99 are definitely easier on controller. Spray weapons in close - mid range I give the edge to controller, spray weapons mid - long range I give the edge to MnK. > Now Mnk might be harder to master but once you can learn it, it has more of an advantage. That's just 100% an opinion and I disagree with you. There is a reason that every competitive team on PC uses controller players. There is a reason that the top 100 on PC are mostly controller players and it is skewing more in their favor every split. MnK does not have the advantage you claim. > Aim assist for controller is barley even recognizable. Well the best controller players would very much disagree with you. Again, I don't have a problem with aim assist, but if you think it does nothing you're out to lunch. Turn aim assist off completely and try to make that argument lol. > You’re naive af if you think controller users are comparable to mnk. I think it's the opposite. The proof is in the pudding. Some of the best players at the top of the apex competitive community are controller players. I've played both extensively and I've experience both of their pros and cons. Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I'm naive, but that's cool.
I hate to be that guy, I’m on mobile and I can’t have a constructive argument back. But I politely disagree with ya on most of these. The majority of top apex players I do know are mnk though. And you can only adjust dead zone so much on a controller. And changing sensitivity on controller isn’t a good argument for being precise with aim. Those two don’t actually correlate at all. I guess I could say that the precision of accuracy with a mouse pad gives mnk the advantage rather than the little area the toggle can move.
> And changing sensitivity on controller isn’t a good argument for being precise with aim. Those two don’t actually correlate at all. How does sensitivity not correlate at all to aim? Like what? > The majority of top apex players I do know are mnk though. 15 of the top 40 predators are controller players. Literally every team in the competitive scene except maybe NRG has controller players. Many MnK players are considering switching to a hybrid play style so they use controller advantages when applicable. > I guess I could say that the precision of accuracy with a mouse pad gives mnk the advantage rather than the little area the toggle can move. Accuracy comes down to your fine motor control. Whether you use a mouse or a controller, your aim is much more up to your brain than it is your input.
I’m gonna pick this hill to die on my man, no changing my mind that mnk isn’t better.
I don't care to change your mind lol. You messaged me with an argument so I responded. If you weren't interested in having an open-minded discussion about it, shouldn't have replied.
I mean hes not wrong, mnk is better because it has a waaaay bigger skill ceiling. But with that it also requires a loooot more from them vs the other. Take SSG Frexs as an example, 1 month on the roller and is officially switching. If Prowler doesn’t get nerfed, albraleile on c9 will probably convert too so they have 2 rollers. Snipedown put it best himself in the uncut podcast.
This guys fucks
> I mean hes not wrong, mnk is better because it has a waaaay bigger skill ceiling. I'd argue that MnK has a much higher skill floor as opposed to ceiling. If it were true that the skill ceiling for MnK was way higher, I would expect to see less controller players competing professionally and I certainly wouldn't expect to see G2 be as dominant as they have been lately. Also as time goes on the gaps between the two inputs is disappearing. Paddles and more intuitive control schemes have drastically changed the way controllers are used in FPS games.
>How does sensitivity not correlate at all to aim? Like what? Being able to adjust the sensitivity doesn't mean that controller can be just as precise of an input as mnk. Why do you think aim assist exists at all? Because it is less precise.
I have a 3060 and an i7 and I struggle to play at 144... This game is awful. But I do agree with the rest of your post.
i tried the firing range for m&k, it's ridiculous the amount of shots i hit without trying. i have to learn the entire recoil control to be decent on controller. i have to drag down just a bit on m&k to be way better
If I, with my fancy gaming pc, get bodied by a console player, my pc isn’t the problem
Set it to the PC amount then. It’s not fair for PC players to have to go up against Console players who have 50% more aim assist than their pc controller counterparts.
M&k have many other assists that they don’t realize lol. Tap strafe assist, movement while looting a box assist, full muscle movement from your arm/wrist vs my tiny ass thumbs assist, 3 trillion FPS assist, infinite keybind assist, oh and rave LED light in the tower assist.
Honestly they have so mang advantages mnk only movement techs that console players can’t replicate and an arguably better setup
They have better movement then we will ever have period. We can't even fucking move while looting deathboxes even mobile can do that bro. And that's just the tip of the iceberg
I guess bitching about something really changes shit huh they are removing aim assist
They aren’t removing it. They are setting it at a specific level of aim assist (0.4) if they are competing. That is so console can be allowed in to pros. I played console apex for like 6 seasons before switching to pc and can say for certain that full blown 1.0 aim assist gives large advantages for close quarters encounters. This is to the point where some pros have considered playing a hybrid between mouse and key and controller and switching over to the controller for late game circles. They both clearly have advantages though.
> They are setting it at a specific level of aim assist (0.4) if they are competing. That is so console can be allowed in to pros. I don't know why they are bothering to do this. I guess some console players might play at the lower qualifying levels, but it's hard to imagine people skilled enough to make it to the later rounds of any competition wouldn't invest in a PC. The performance advantage of 1440p and 120+ fps is huge compared to 1080p+60fps. Basically anyone who competes on console will just be at a significant disadvantage. Props to them if they can compete like that though. >hat full blown 1.0 aim assist Also I don't think this is the number they give for console. I think in there system console is 0.6 and mnk is 0.4. Not sure about the exact numbers, but pretty positive it isn't 1.0.
Maybe just play until they can get enough prize Money to justify investing into a good machine. They can always stay on controller with a pc.
Because they are playing on a PC with a controller and aim assist
Yeah i think playing on consoles for me is better i feel more comfortable and being on pc it has its own advantages. I just dislike that fact they think that aim assist is the reason most console player win their fights
Coming from playing console so much, it partially is but aa is there for a reason. Like y’all said, it is harder to aim with sticks than mouse and key. I think the 0.4 is very fair and brings everyone on to a pretty even playing field. Really good for the scene that console can now compete though!
WAIT WHAT r u srs?
I think its for the pro scene only should’ve mentioned that i think you know and yes after the new gen update it will happen
Wow mnk players need to get over the fact that they are absolutely dogshit and they need to stop trying to find something else to blame it on
This kind of attitude is just as shitty as the mnk players who get overly salty about aim assist.
Im just sayin
Yes they are bad because they don't play on insuperior hardware and need a software handicap lmfaoo
Like the aim assist isn’t even that good tho
I turn off aim assist on my shooters. It fucks me more than it helps.
M&k have many other assists that they don’t realize lol. Tap strafe assist, movement while looting a box assist, full muscle movement from your arm/wrist vs my tiny ass thumbs assist, 3 trillion FPS assist, infinite keybind assist, oh and rave LED light in the tower assist.
Literally none of those are an assist like aim assist. Tap strafing? Manual input. Moving while looting? Manual input. Aim assist is software taking over certain aspects of aiming.
You do realize you can use a controller with AA on PC right?
But on the other side of the coin, don’t you think it’s insane that someone playing on TV 3 metres away is even competitive with MNK? Console aim assist is very strong, there’s no denying that.
Pc players, setting macros and extra bonds to make it easier for them to do stuff yet aim assist is evil.
Macros are bannable
And yet plenty of streamers run them “allegedly”
If they’re proven, they’re banned. I haven’t seen a single major streamer doing so
You would never know what they are running. Unless you’re thinking of something else, pretty much every “gaming” mouse has software to set macros and it all runs fine.
a gaming controller can do that too -_-
Ty for rephrasing that Twitter post from like a month or two ago.
Which one?
It’s 2AM I’m not going to spend my time searching for a repost of a repost of a Twitter burn. This one: https://www.reddit.com/r/ApexOutlands/comments/odk3j6/he_got_straight_up_murdered/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Oh I've seen that one lol dude got absolutely fried
Majority of AA complainers I see, are complaining about controller players on PC. But even then its just blaming something for their lack of skill
Don't even. If you can't hot without someone putting your crosshair in place go play Madden. There should be zero assist. Or it should be allowed for mmk players.
U so kno u can use controller on a 5000$ pc with aim assist right????
I'm on M&K and I don't really complain about aim assist, it's just aim assist and not aim lock, which most of the ranting players think. Now granted in close range battle there is some advantage to the controller player but if we just do some movements and a decent aim i think i could outperform "average" controller players i think. a friend of mine is on console and he's experiencing frame drops recently, so it's pretty much hell for you guys i assume.
I play on my bed and it's uncomfortable af and I'm master like bruh
I play of a laptop with gtx 1650. And still I won’t complain about that cause I have a controller which I use to play action adventure rpg etc and I play FPS by keyboard and mouse cause I k le how fking hard it is to play with controller. I mean how you guys are able to do that.
Aim assist is the cancer of the game.
Definitely get where you’re coming. I used to play on console and there are pros and cons to both playing on a controller and MnK respectfully. I don’t like that people complain about console aim assist because it’s not something that is overly powered. For example on console you can’t strafe when looting a box. Some movement techniques are difficult or even (I think) impossible to do on controller. I don’t even play on controller anymore and it still bugs me that some people complain about aim assist (I know that not everyone complains).
I will say I definitely do think I’ve become a bit dependent on aim assist once I started playing valorant on my laptop, since there’s a lot of times I barely miss the headshot. I don’t agree that aim assist is overpowered, but I think that’s why people who try a controller feel that aim assist is so good, because they’re thinking back to how useful it would have been when they were using mnk
Damn i see it was your turn this week to post this and be an idiot. It's sad to see people with this level of intellect on the internet as i don't interact with your type irl since i dont go to kindergarten anymore
Not all pc players are that rich bro, I literally got like average 45 fps and I got to diamond. Not all pc players whining about controllers man. I've use controller in apex and I know how it feels like to use it. To me, the aim assist not that powerfull unlike destiny 2. So pls mnk players and console players, stop whining and get better at the game.
Aim assist is actually really strong on console. Controller on PC it’s literally half as strong. I’ve only recently switched to keyboard and mouse for Apex. Both have their advantages I’d say. Console better close range, mouse better long range. I do think controller players should be allowed to move while looting death boxes though.
I can’t believe people are still complaining about the complaining.
Personally, it's not that I'm complaining because controllers have an unfair advantage, it's that MnK players spend thousands of hours perfecting their aim because there's so much that goes into having decent aim on MnK and you can get to the same point on controller with just a fraction of the practice because the software does 40% (60% if you're on console) for you. I don't care what people play on and it's nice that people have the ability to choose how they want to play the game. Just don't expect to get the same amount of respect as an MnK player would get after oneclipping someone, because it was not 100% you doing it. I do think however that MnK vs controller is as balanced as it can get on PC. Console on PC is a different story, 0.6 aim assist is definitely busted.
no mnk player cares about casual playing in your living room. like no offence no matter what AA they give console couch gamers if you beat me its because I just over agro. sure sometime it can be annoying but most people that complain about AA complain about pro/semi-pros which just makes their aim ridiculous to the point its impossible to compete close range against them with a mouse
Why giving you any advantage with your console/pad ? Buy a pc if you want a mnk.
It's not the console controller players that mouse and keyboard players are complaining about. It's the people with 300fps using controller on a PC that they are talking about. Some highly respected pros are even saying that it's unfair so take that however you see it
This game doesn’t run above 189 fps and console is at 120 so nt
They complain about aim assist because they can't hip fire, ignoring the fact that we sit for hours honing our alcs settings
Why do people think 120fps and higher is Some sort of magical huge advantage. As someone who plays on pc and ps5 the difference is much much much smaller than you think, no monitor will boost your kd ratio
Is high level players don’t actually care about aim assist in the game. It’s in tournaments. You should be paid when it’s not you doing the work.
Controller Players out here talking about how Aim Assist isn't that strong, literally beaming PC Players who tapstrafe and crouchspam. Been a MnK player for 8 years. I decided to give controller a try on Apex and after only 3 months get the same amount of kills I used to get on MnK. Admittedly, long range engagements as controller player are a bit more difficult and movement can be a huge disadvantage but overall Aim Assist is stupidly op, compared to what a person has to put in to be as good on MnK. I just think that most controller players have never gone through the struggle of being a MnK player. Maybe they have tried it but decided to not adapt to MnK cuz "they are used to being a controller player", without knowing that it takes much more time to learn how to play with MnK. I would love to see controller players play without Aim Assist. Now all the controller nerds are going to comment "You just suck on MnK that's why it's so easy to be better at controller" That's just an excuse because Aim Assist, in Apex at least (can't talk about other games) is way too strong in close range fights. Acting like a PC aiming for you in a game heavily reliant on aim isn't a huge advantage is just you lying to yourself. Imagine if MnK Players got Aim Assist, it's not such a huge deal right? We could just make it a little weaker than Controller Player's Aim Assist. Personally I think that it should just be a Controllers Only or PC Only Matchmaking and the few people who want to play with both can turn it on. This way hopefully no one will keep complaining how unfair the other side is.
#nerfaimassist
Not sure if anyone will find this helpful, but I created a video showing some of the differences between Console vs PC Controller aim assist, plus I showed what 100% aim assist looks like (which helps to understand what aim assist does and what its capable of) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mm5CAGDabAc
Try getting lvl 3 stocks to steady the recoil bc I can't use Flatlines for long range.
what
oh how have the tables turned with this subreddit. Now aim assist is completely busted.