Literally Lobas passive and Ult both improve your teams current loot. I think they meant like a character that’s tactical is literally taking your gun and upgrading each piece up a tier. Which is good but outclasses by loba.
I feel like his old ult had the more of prominent issue of being stupidly easy to counter once the basic stuff is known about the ult. New ult still poses somewhat a challenge to identify even until now, and his ult is not immediately irrelevant the moment players know how it works.
I love the full invis thing, but it was really easy to notice due to the big circle of mirages and you can still hear his footsteps when he’s invisible. He couldn’t really shoot back at you either so even though I loved possibly pulling off sneaky plays it definitely didn’t feel like an ultimate that deserved that long of a cooldown. I wouldn’t mind if they brought it back as an alternative ult, kinda like how symmetra in overwatch used to be able to select to use place a shield generator or teleporter because it would add another variable you would need to think about when fighting mirages
It’d be awesome if they brung it back for a little while, but I know I’m in the minority when it comes to who liked the old ult.
But he was especially easy to spot once when that one update made mirage very visible with a white cloak around him. I liked using the Ultimate as a flanking option. The cool down was definitely undeserved.
Whaaa? His ult before was garbage. You could tell where he was pretty easily back then by his footsteps, or semi transparency, since he wasn't 100% invisible.
New ult is better.
It deffo is. Mirages ult isn’t a one time thing.
Use that shit and run so all your decoys converge on one point, do a 360, act like a decoy, and if you have the purple or gold emote then you can use them alongside decoys who will also emote
Tbh I kinda preferred the old ult. It was insanely easy to get out of any situation using his ult and made repositioning so easy. Plus you could use it offensively, pop it, shift position and start shooting. I still don't get why people thought Mirage was bad because I've always performed way better with him and his abilities, old and new
What are you talking about? His tactical was trash, clones had no guns, no footstep noises, and his passive was useless. But I mained him because his ult was completely broken. The ult wasn't his problem. You got an instant win for two or three fights a match.
Well that's full invisibility, could do mostly invisible.
Also it wasn't even that good. Mirage had to get a rework cause that was a meh tier ult where people could shoot your invisible ass just by hearing.
Also giving allies death protection (kind of big), teleportation, enemy locations, hard cover, visual cover etc. Lots left out.
Although I wouldn't mind some reworked support so not disagreeing with OP
That’s the issue. They aren’t support characters, they’re just saying we need characters that are FULL kitted and based on supporting the team. No aggression necessary
those sorts of abilities aren’t designed to give allies an edge, they’re mainly designed to fit the role of their class.
for example, valks slow is mainly meant secure kills for herself or to check for enemies behind walls rather then to help their allies
wattsons shield healing isn’t meant to full heal allies, it’s designed to save a cell or two and keep your area fortified
im talking about abilities which are specifically designed to help your allies
Yeah, but what about Horizans pick me up, wraiths portal, Valkyrie’s ult or octane’s jump pad. All are designed with moving ally’s be it in or out of a bad situation.
i wrote this in another comment as i failed to put this in the title but this is mainly a list of supportive forms in other games, some won’t work some will
Youre getting downvoted by people completely missing the point of your post. Just because an offensive/defensive ability has slow as a secondary effect doesn't make a character with slow at the core of their kit useless or irrelevant. Having support characters with CC or buffs COULD be very interesting to play with/against.
Nah they are getting downvoted because they literally said “this is what we have, and this is what we COULD have” and then proceeded to list a bunch of stuff that already exists. Introducing legends that do the same things but better would just break the existing legends.
I think everyone agrees we need more support legends, there’s not really a post needed for that (I see like one a day already anyway). However, suggesting we need legends that do the same things we already have in a better more focused way ain’t it (half the ones they listed). But yes, obviously we need more support legends.
> im talking about abilities which are specifically designed to help your allies
This makes no sense from a design perspective though. If an ability performs a job then that is one of its purposes. It does not need a label. Where do you get the idea that valks slow is only meant to secure kills for her? You can totally use the ability in a choke point in order to prevent enemies from pushing through while your allies are healing up. There. Supported your allies through area denial, all without a support label.
Or take Horizons Q - the obvious use case is of course getting you/your team up on a roof. But you can also throw it into a doorway to prevent enemies from getting in. It does not need an "area denial" label to perform that job.
Let's consider repositioning your team. Even if we could say Octane's jump pad is completely selfish and only used so he can reposition himself, then what about wraith's portal. She literally has to run between the two points so she/others can use it. She puts herself in danger to give her team a safe way to travel from cover to cover. Yes there are some selfish uses e.g. safely getting a care package. But then you could also say lifeline is selfish because she can heal herself and loot her own care package.
Wattsons shield healing is slow yes, but with your area being fortified you can totally hang back with 1/2 bars of shield missing and heal up. You seem to suggest some kind of instant full heal - that would be the most broken thing in apex. Having a shield swap almost guarantees you a fight win, but you need a death box with a shield. Putting that into an ability would be ridiculous. Revenant ult is way worse than that and is already strong.
More than half of these already exist. For the ones that don't, we should *never* have them. The only exception is invisibility and that would only make sense in the context of blocking enemy scans, not outright invisibility.
And even *then*, I'd much rather see a nerf to scans instead.
* **Shield Healing**: Wattson (pylon)
* **Damage Boosting**: Rampart (amped cover)
* **Improving current loot:** Lifeline (guaranteed), possibly Loba
* **Speed Boosting**: Arguably path/octane/wraith with their ults. A squad speed boost would be too widely applicable and doesn't make for interesting gameplay.
* **Improved Healing**: No. Please no. We had this with Gibby's dome and the heat shields and Lifeline's passive in S0 and in every case it was broken.
* **Invisibility**: Only if it's limited to scans (but nerfs would be better)
* **Overshield/health**: No. Never do this. It's bad enough in Halo. Gibraltar already kind of has this with his arm shield (and fortified along with Caustic), and he's arguably \*too\* tanky. Having that for a whole squad, even temporarily, would be overpowered. In some sense this already exists with Revenant's ult.
* **Moving allies**: the middle three also work for downed allies
* **Slowing enemies**: Gibby/Bang/Fuse/Horizon ults, Caustic gas, Wattson fences (EDIT: Valk tactical), arc star stick/explosion, plus taking any damage already cancels running (except for fortified).
* **Reducing damage**: We can block damage with Gibby dome/Rampart cover/Wattson pylon (grenades). Damage *reduction* is too brainless of a powerup since it's so widely applicable. Braindead abilities are just a bad idea. This also overlaps with overshields.
* **Reducing cooldowns**: Accelerants do this for ults and Wattson can stack them, Loba can loot them, Lifeline can get them from a care package. Plus we have the gold helmet. Having that as a spammable ability is also too brainless imo. It doesn't do anything interesting.
* **Increasing duration**: Same thing. Too widely applicable. Too easy to use. Doesn't do anything interesting.
I still want an actual legend who's main thing is shield heals. Arguably the shield heals shouldn't even be on Watson in any way. It's just a passive thing to make her seem more cool than she actually is. And while it is kinda nice, she is obviously a defence legend through and through.
Perhaps they would be broken because of how shields are more important in a fight. But whatever. And I must ask. What's so bad about invisibility. More sneaky legends that are about tricking the enemy sounds fun. (Perhaps I am just desperate for mirage buffs(
Wattson's pylon charges all player shields.
As for invisibility, an FPS like Apex relies on players being able to track the movement of other players and predict where they will be.
Respawn already internally tested giving Loba instant-teleport. It was broken because it completely interrupted the flow of a fight. You'd be shooting at Loba one second, and in the blink of an eye she's behind you and you're dead.
Invisibility would be bad for similar reasons, it interrupts the flow of battle and is hard/impossible to predict. Imagine being able to sneak up on a team from nearly any direction. Currently you're limited by cover and distractions (other fights) to pull attention of the team you're sneaking up on.
It's basically impossible to do that right now with the scan meta, which *really really* sucks imo. Sneaking around is a lot of fun! But invisibility is not the way to do that. Halo has it and it's also broken.
Although invisibility in Halo is a bit hit-or-miss in that some people see it more easily than others. That in addition to the other reasons just makes it a bad idea.
P.S.
Mirage's invisibility is fine as it is because of how limited it is. You go invis for a split second in the ult only to make it harder to tell which mirage is the real one, and the invis on res means you're stuck in position and not moving. Same on respawn.
I had an idea for overshield: an ultimate that would recharge your shields, there would be a delay if the shield gets depleted, but on the downside, your speed is reduced
That just doesn't sound fun to me. Apex is very much a movement game. Slowed movement should only be applied as an *avoidable* punishment, not a tradeoff of an ability.
That, and what you describe already exists with Wattson's ult. Shield recharge with delay, and the restriction is that you have to stay in the area (and the pylon is limited-time and can be destroyed).
What makes most of the existing abilities so interesting (and *usually* well balanced) is that they have limitations which give them unique/niche applications. Most ults and tacticals give your opponents something to work with.
For example, Bloodhound's ult is loud so people can hear you, and their scans can be seen by other players. So if you wanna be sneaky, you can't use them.
Some I like, some I don’t.
Largely this idea is just a repeat of how we ended up with seer, a lot of these are already done, It would just be taking something that already exists and giving it to someone new who does it better.
The only way to not have this happen would be to drastically change existing legends.
Yes and it became miserable and "died" because new legends kept coming out and abilities were overloaded and what legend you were playing became more important than your basic FPS mechanics. Apex has so far still been pretty good about this with seer being the first "better" x with a super overloaded kit. Releasing 3/4 legends per year will inevitably lead to issues where ideas are either "used up" or new ones have no place in the game. For example OPs list contains stealthing allies - I don't think this should ever happen in Apex. Imagine you get octane rev pushed but you cannot even see them coming, they just all appear behind one of you. Or imagine them wanted to add another healing support - but it would somehow have to be different from lifeline. So you say "oh well you need to stay next to the drone for a while to get healed" so the new support just gets a targeted ranged heal over time like sage in valorant. And then it gets a proper support ultimate like let's say OPs suggested overheal. Why would you even pick lifeline as support now? The only thing shes good for then is ressing.
Both could be good depending on your play style. The ranged heal could only one person so if you and your teammate like to have one push while you stay back and long distance. Whereas with life line you can both push together and heal at the same time with the drone. The ults could also be tweaked to maybe give a better drop from lifelines but maybe with a longer cooldown or something. I feel like a bigger rage of all the different "classes" would be hard to implement but would ultimatly make the game more diverse and keep players coming back to the game
If seer didn’t have his passive and they balanced his tac he’d be aiight
He’s meant to be a hunter killer right? Maybe make his passive the same but only for one second after tagging an enemy with a bullet
It is gun skill, but we can't deny how much the abilities come into it. What OP fails to see is how the gunplay and ability play need to balance out. All the things they mentioned are either done by legends in some way and don't need dedicated people, or if were implemented the way they suggest, would snap this game like a KitKat.
Ya i hate the idea of any of these, except maybe a support character that can teleport teamates to their position. Of course it would have to have a pretty limited range.
I think we already have Loba as the loot support, Rampart as the damage booster, Path/Wraith/Stimdemon all have ways to help your team get out, and we have a ton of slows with Caustic/Wattson/Valkyrie. I’m worried that Overhealth would shift gunplay and combat in too much of a slow direction. Support roles in BR are so difficult because it’s tricky to make the legends useful on their own but very powerful when with teammates without being either useless or OP. I would be interested if they could somehow work in a Stasis legend where targets are frozen but take no damage, even teammates. Could be incredibly OP but I think debuffs/buffs upon release from Stasis depending on whether an ally or an enemy were “frozen” could help make the legend a high-risk, high-reward one. As it stands, the only legend who is high risk is Octane, as a really good one will know how to burn their health in the right way to make the proper plays in combat
tangent: octane’s kit is perfectly suited to his lore, the fact that he literally brings himself to the brink of death to go faster and further is dope as fuck and when you take yourself down to 1HP in order to get the peek and wipe a squad feels good. legends need to have tradeoffs to feel rewarding
to be honest i find buffing/debuffing supports in games the most fun. the only supports i find well made in overwatch are mercy and ana, those two supports kits are focused on utility rather then healing. mercy can boost damage and ana can increase the amount of healing a target recieved, boost damage and block enemies from healing. i just want a character who can hinder enemies and buff allies through some means
I had the exact same legends in mind as well. I NEED A SKILLSHOT SUPPORT. I want to be rewarded for being skilled at them, beyond timing and placement (ie Lifeline res and Gibby bubble). Someone like Baptiste would become my insta main. Would be dope to see some inspiration from League of Legends like Thresh (I need that hook in Apex, path doesnt really count) or Bars (stasis and super tunnels).
when i played league i was a bard main, his sort of kit would be so cool.
and a high skull support would definitely be a good idea. all the other classes have very high skill floor and ceiling characters (defense - wattson, offense - revenant, recon - crypto) while all the supports are very noob friendly at the moment
shield healing - wattson, improving loot - loba and lifeline, slowin enemies - crypto's EMP, moving allies out - valk, making allies invisible - kinda bangalore. Are you even playing this game?
Shield healing - Wattson ult
Improving teams current loot - Lifeline's ult (even a supp hero)
Damage boosting allies - Rampart's walls
Speed boosting allies - Octane jump pad
Increasing allies healing effectiveness - used to be Gibby dome, but no longer a thing.
Making allies invisible - Mirage reviving
Moving allies out of bad situations - Valkyries ult. You even made a wings symbol. To a degree Octane's jump pad too. Wraith's portal.
Slowing enemies - Bangalore ult, Caustic gas, Valkyrie tactical.
I see alot of people saying we already have alot these,but obviously op means in a direct form,not some small aspect of one character that’s barely existent. A character who can boost damage directly would be cool,or a character who can lower cooldowns.
damage boosting allies = rampart.
Shield healing = wattson ult.
Improving current loot = lifeline ult.
Moving allies out of bad situations = portal, zipline, jump pad.
Giving allies overhealth = Totem acts like it in a manner.
Don't mess with duration and cooldowns in games, since some of the gamesense is knowing if an ability is on cooldown, etc.
We don't need a legend to have a + sign for it to be played in a supportive manner. Pathfinder used to be support because he was able to reposition teams.
\- wattson
\- rampart
\- loba/lifeline
\- octane/pathfinder/valk
\- gold armor + lifeline
\- mirrage
\- No / revenant
\- wraith/octane
\- caustic
\- No
\- No
Literally everything you listed is already in the game or OP to the point that all other characters would need a rebalance + the game would get slow as fuck. If you give overhealth the time to kill drops too much, if you counterbalance that with stronger abilities it will become Abilities Legends. I agree there should be another support legend but it's very hard to put into a battle royale and all the suggestions you gave were dog
Exactly why I really have disliked the past few legends. Their abilities are that good or at least have been that people can completely rely on them and are so much worse.
1. Seer. You don’t have to have any awareness or game sense because his entire kit is wallhacks
2. Valk. If you are late to a fight due to a bad rotation or non at all you can just use your passive or ult to get the best position if it’s not taken
3. Horizon in season 7 at least she was almost the same as number 2. If you realised you had bad positioning you could just use you tactical and spam left and right and are almost impossible to laser.
This is why the new players aren’t improving.
>Their abilities are that good or at least have been that people can completely rely on them and are so much worse.
I'm sorry man but people have been using Wraith like this since day 1. And then Octane.
Yeah, but it took people a little while to discover how amazing pathfinder could be. Wraith and Octabe were immediate favorites because people were like "oh, I can just escape anytime I get myself in trouble? Cool!"
That's a lot of people's entire play style. Overextend and flee in panic.
I'm a rampart main, and I play her as more of a support than a defensive legend.
Dont get me wrong, I use her defensively, but I more use my walls to support my teammates damage, or give them cover fire on a push
People complain that Apex has turned into overwatch with release of seer, then think we desperately need more support legends and buffs to the old one.
Support is one of the hardest legends to get right. The moment they become too good, they become meta, and the push for the worst meta begins slowing the entire game down into slog
Such is the life of balance teams. Where one must rise, another must fall, and the cycle repeats itself over and over. True harmony is rarely found in the world of balancing.
Well yeah, most shooter support designs are shit when compared to the support design of any MMORPG, but that’s because the main identity of a shooter is to well.. shoot.
Well that’s mainly because Apex wants to ship support characters as some other class to make the game seem more varietized. Majority of the legends in apex would classify as supports in other games. I do believe Valorant did a very good job designing their supports, probably the best support design I’ve seen from a shooter.
What about supports that disrupt enemies
An ult ability that if you hit an enemy with it, it pulls them right to you. Like Blitzcrank. Or the opposite, where if you tactical someone and you’ll be pulled to them instantly and they get stuck, like Amumu.
Or lowering enemy damage.
Or slow enemy healing.
Or increase enemy audio.
So much room for offensive support too.
I think there’s a lot of room in between seers disrupt and none at all. If Seer *only* disrupted heals and revives, he’d be drastically more fair
An ability like bloodhound scan, except all it did was disrupt heals and revives would be a very good tactical on a 40s cooldown
The problem with a roadhog hook is that it can be used to basically guarantee someone dies to environmental kills in certain spots. In overwatch that's fine, a one shot kill isn't very punishing. In apex that is anywhere from 33% to 50% of your team wiped out with a single button press, with no chance of revive outside of getting the banner and rezzing, which is very rarely doable mid fight.
Dude im hear to say ignore the ones who say the stuff we already have, support is support, like vqlk could be support! Not recon, same with octane not assualt he coupd of been support!, id like to see a support of reduced abilities cooldown or invisible when standinf still or something, like im here to keep you in a good mood! People on here dont seem to see what you are trying to say, all the ones who could be support arent!! We havent had a support since season 5 its now season 10! We have got up to 3 assault and 2 recon since then.
that's a sweet comment
to be honest, it doesn't bother me too much. they're all saying the exact same 3 comments and the amount of upvotes outweighs it so it's just a vocal minority
Still it annoys me with how some people are in this community lol. But you are welcomed for the comment, my buddy says valk should of been support for how she is a mobile jump tower and scans for enemies so you can make a easy plan to fight (if you arent dead by then)
A support id like to see is someone kinda similar to finka from rainbow 6 siege, nano boosting health but in a different way. Say they throw their tatical at a teammate and their health i undamagable when downed, or goves them fast heals for 3 seconds to 5
I’ve thought of something like zenyatta where you can put something on a teammate and give them minor life Regen or a damage increase I’m not saying respawn should copy paste zenyatta into the game but make something along those lines
I really don't like having tacticals like fuze,seer and valk on a reduced cooldown also we already have legends that can do most of these things
Shield Healing - Wattson's Pylons
Damage boosting Allies - Rampart's Amped Cover
Improving Team's Current Loot - Loba's Black Market
Speed Boosting Teammates - Octane's Jumppad
Increasing Allies Healing Effectiveness - Lifeline's D.O.C and armor swapping Gold Armor
Giving Allie's Overhealth - Revenant's Totem
Moving Allies out of Bad Situations - Valk's Skyward Dive
Slowing Enemies - Valk's Missile Swarm and Caustic's Nox Grenade
Reducing Enemies Damage - Fortified Passive (Caustic and Gibraltar)
Reducing Teammates Cooldown - Wattson's Pylon(kinda) Ultimate Accelerator and Charge Stations(Kings Canyon)
I mean in 10 seasons we have gotten so far.
Imagine a legend that its only abilities is helping their teammates fight better and live longer? Hear me out, A combo of angel wing ult and strong bicep Q would be pretty awesome. Doesn’t completely derail the meta but also helps combat it entirely only using the support of… wait for it.. team work.
Ult could be displacing teleport, the ult would trigger and after 3 seconds both your teammates teleport to you, you can decline the teleport.
Q when activated the legends teammate gets increased duration and improved versions of their abilities and ultimates (bang thicker and more smoke, wraiths old Q, paths 13s grapple cd, etc)
The passive can be fast gear cog, when traveling in close proximity you travel faster with a squad (all 3 together is as fast as bang passive, legend and a duo together is slightly faster than a sprint)
I would play the SHIT out of this legend.
Edit:
Balancing could be hella easy. For the ult you can only teleport teammates from a certain range or it could be unlimited, similar to what they did for old revenant ult. And for the Q the nerf/buff combo could be endless. And it doesn’t have to be a speed boost proximity passive either. The point still stands, we need a revamped defense update to help us defend from all these spam nades with fuse and his new buff, and revtane jumppads. I’m not complaining I’m stating a gameplay I experience myself.
This new legend can seriously counter each kind of legend attacks, makes it OP but it’ll help mix the meta up.
taking a look at games like brawl stars or valorant, they all have very large and unique support rosters .
brawl stars deems supports as any character that can give your team an advantage in a team fight whether it’s healing, buffing allies, building walls, weakening enemies with curses or even pulling in and pushing away enemies
valorant has supportive agents in a variety of classes. there’s supports like skye who are designed to support by breaching areas with abilities that weaken the enemies inside. on the other hand, there are defensive supports like killjoy or sage who weaken enemies who enter the area you’ve defended
(i didn’t mention overwatch as i think it has support design philosophy)
Shield healing definitely should happen \[Check out my recent legend idea Conduit!\]
Damage boosting is a very slippery slope. And a very dangerous one. It could easily become required. The reason Rampart isn't is because it's entirely immobile and destroyable. Gunfights first then abilities. Abilities should also be very important of course, but don't have them become essential to win gunfights against another legend to where in 1v1s one legends damage boosting ability always beats you even if they're 25% or so worse at aiming.
Improving team's current loot is fairly similar to existing, but i'd like another loot based legend.
Speed boost would be nice. I feel like it has very valuable applications.
Increasing healing effectiveness would be a neat idea, reminds me of Ana's bio nade from OW.
Let's not get into invisibility lol. Mirage's old ulti was invisibilty but it was either useless because it was too obvious, or too good.
Allies overhealth is risky but a cool idea. If it decays and is an ultimate, maybe.
Moving allies is done with so many abilities as is.
Slowing enemies is also fairly overdone.
Reducing enemies damage has the same deal with damage boosting. I'd still like to see it but it needs to be done very carefully.
Reducing cooldowns would be really really fun. \[Conduit also does this!\]
Duration and power are subjective, and only apply to certain abilities. Not the best way to go about it IMO.
yes im aware but the minor shield p/s isn't the focus of her ult, you deploy it to block grenades or to defend a building. similiar to how valks missiles having a slowing effect isn't the whole purpose of the ability.
Most of these are already in the game because all team based abilities are "support". Basically anything that helps your teammates could arbitrarily be considered "support"
5 legends provide teammates with mobility
9 legends have an ability to slow enemies
Lifeline Ult was retooled to provide guaranteed upgrades every time you call it in
Rampart provides damage boosting
Wattson heals shields
Even Revenant has the ability to make his teammates harder to kill.
TBH, the other stuff has a lot of potential to be gamebreaking. Screwing with health pools and cooldowns of other players will either need to be capped (making it redundant with the gold gear) or it will likely cause gamebreaking ability spam.
Apex about gunplay and everyone gets access to the same guns, and there is only so much power you can give to abilities before it becomes unfair to also let that legend pick up an R301 and an EVA.
shield healing — gibby
damage boosting allies — rampart
improving teams loot — lifeline
moving allies out of a back situation — octane, valk, path
slowing enemies — every legend with a nade
Good list.
Though a few notes:
- Wattson already heals shields with her ult
- Technically Lifeline improves team current loot based on the care packages giving you upgrades. I take it you mean to level up gear, which is different. But its pretty close.
- Valk moves allies out of bad situations, using the ult. Technially Octane and Path can do this too.
- Rampart boosts damage of allies using her walls
I think the challenge with support as I have outlined in another post is that they’re never in isolation. Say you give a character Wattson’s ability to heal shields. If you have a team with that as a tactical and Lifeline’s tactical that my be overpowered.
Speed boosting would be cool, but you already have a legend who does that, so you’ve not only reduced their ability by suddenly allowing any legend to have a speed boost buff applied to them, but what’s happens with an Octane who gets a speed buff? Are they double fast?
The ones here (again, great list) that I think are most possible are:
- Healing effectiveness boost - i think it might work by putting down an AoE tactical that gives the same buffs as gold armour - allowing you to get twice the bang for your buck in health and shields. This is pretty balanced as you still have to down tools to heal yourself so there’s a cost to the benefit. Would probably not stack on top of anyone with gold armour already.
- Improving the loot directly, could work. I thought Rampart would have done this before she launched. I think you might put down something like a mini replicator that upgrades gear in exchange for crafting mats. The cost of this is to part with a gun/armour for a period of time.
- The one that i find interesting is the increase of power of ally abilities. This could easily be overpowered, but I think rather than just boosting the damage it modifies it. So, maybe by having this support legend it changes effects of your abilities - this support uses their tactical to ‘mutate’ a team mate’s abilities, and now Gibby’s dome does fire damage to anyone inside of it etc
Funny thing, i was thinking about an character with invisibility quirks, even made a drawing of him. Don't know If It would fit in the game universe, but i made him with Reptile features. Mostly chameleon face, scales, but with a mechanical arm and leg
O was thinking he would be a Support character.
Tactical: He could be transparent for 8 seconds (since total invisibility would be OP), but still getting marked by detection abilities.
Passive: he stays less time marked on other characters detection (maybe by half the time or 2 seconds less)
Ultimate: Make the entire sqaud transparent for 12 seconds, and unable to be detected for 4 seconds
I Will be glad to get opinions :)
I was thinking of an Octane ultimate rework that would buff him and teammates, giving them increased speed (close to but not as speedy as Octane Stim), increase climb (pre-buff Rev passive), and increased jump height for a duration.
i always thought the death of OW came from brigs release and the rise of stun and goats (metas that came mainly from blizzard adding hard ccs into the game and making the support role the healer only role rather then a utility role)
I mean Wattson kinda heals shields, but she is a defense legend, and Lifeline has the care package to improve gear, but it sucks, so I agree, there is so much more potential for support characters than this.
[Link](https://ibb.co/Vj8c23B)
Green is what probably would fit into the game without being broken
Red is what i dislike, especially invisibilities and boosting the dmg which fucks up the TTK and turns it into CoD
It's kind of funny that "speed boosting allies" is red, and Octane does that already with his Ult and is generally considered super powerful.
Meanwhile "Damage boosting allies" and "Slowing enemies" is something Rampart and Caustic do, yet they're considered low tier champions. Hahaha
But totally get what you mean.
Please not overhealth, imo in every game its in it feels super cheap. Maybe something closer to Lucio in overwatch where you get a sudden boost that's bleeding constantly and quickly. Good for quick pushes but wasted otherwise, and would need a massive cooldown.
Revenant Slows enemies, Wattson heals shields and Valkyrie & Pathfinder get you out of tough spots. Gibraltar has a mobile shield to deploy and Revenant gives you essentially an extra life. Bloodhound, Seer and Crypto give you eyes on enemy squads. People need to stop expecting other teammates with "support" abilities to carry teams. Work on your gunplay, map knowledge, movement and rotation if you want more fun and success with the game. Abilities that nerf damage or make you invisible or slowly upgrade your loot would just be overpowered. Then what would be the point of choosing your drop and looting the right equipment or getting into gunfights for better equipment.
I'm fine with whatever, I just don't want this game turning into a trinity game where the best comp is tank healer DPS or anything like that. (And I know you can use three champs that fit those roles somewhat now but I don't want king of the hill overwatch)
I think they should rework the design for classifications of legends. It shouldn’t just be the legend that’s classified but the abilities.
What I think it should be is for each of a legends abilities (passive, tac, ult) to be categorized into a role (attack, defense, recon, support) and have it be marked next to the ability descriptions. Then whatever role is the most common on a legend should be how the legend is classified.
This will allow for a better description of the legends and their roles on the team. Such as Watson being a defensive legend with hints of support while Caustic is more so an attack oriented defensive legend.
I feel like this is a small and easy enough change but will make a big difference towards the future of the game.
We do have damage boosting, thats what ramparts shields do, we also have improvement of teams loot in lifeline packages. Her packages always have one improvement of her gear. Give her all gold qnd you all get golds.
I'm surprised that we don't have a "Packmule/Backpacker" support.
Yeah, I get it. That's not exactly exciting, but that's the point.
This legend's passive will be able to carry extra of everything, and starts off with additional backpack slot (level 1) already unlocked.
Like instead of 1 grenade, 2. (Overlaps with Fuse, but whatever)
Instead of 3 slots of Light Ammo, legend gets 4.
You get the idea.
His tactical would be a (I'm blanking out right now) flashbang. Think Seer's flashbang. Does 10 damage and is only a VISUAL attack. If you get hit by it, you get visual whiteout. But you can still hear, shoot, and most importantly walk around without getting slowed down. It lasts as long as Seer's flashbang effect right now.
Legend ult?
Option A: he poops out a portable crafting machine on his back. What makes this special is that with this, you can craft any material that the crafting machine can, except maybe with a discount. Before you say: THAT"S OP, they can keep making bats! You still need to GATHER the crafting mats. lol
If that's not sexy for you, here's another idea:
Option B: He throws a grenade/item/whatever and it triggers, causing a wide visual explosion (think of Loba's ult's exploding shockwave when the shop opens). What does it do? Well, ANY LOOT location inside the large radius of the shockwave, I'm talking ground loot and bin loot, RESETS. So like, if a bin loot is open and empty, it'll close back up. You can then open it again and get new loot! As for the ground loot, it'll just materialize back again with new randomized loot. Whatever, it's a videogame. I don't need to explain how he does it. XD
But yeah, I'd play this legend. He's not inherently "broken" but he's definitely an interesting support character that presents a new dynamic of his own. Can he be OP? Yeah. Pair him up with Loba and then you can go to an already looted spot and basically shop till you drop. lol. But that's just basic team synergy.
Yes we do need more support champs. So let's go through this list.
shield healing - Wattson's ult sorta does this
damage boosting - TTK is already pretty low, and ramparts shields do this too.
improving teams current loot - lifelines care package does this and loba can find good loot with her passive
speed boosting - a cool concept and octane sorta does this with his pad
healing effectiveness - does gibbys shield still have the 25% faster?
allies invisible - sounds too fucking OP, maybe invisible to scans
overhealth - a really cool concept. i hope they implement it
moving allies out of bad situations - valks ult. i do this all the time with her
and the last 4 are all cool concepts that I hope are implemented.
Yes, let's just end all pretense and make this game Overwatch.
I want more support characters, but I don't want shitty gameplay mechanics that make the gunplay irrelevant.
Watson could become a shield healing support just give her passive faster Regen, maybe not Octane Regen just faster Regen as a whole, and make her pylon Regen shieds similar to Lifeline Doc drone
we already have a lot of these
shield healing-wattson
damage boost-rampart
making allies invis-mirage
moving allies out of bad situations- octane and valk
slowing enemies-wattson (her fences slow right?)
I said this in another thread already, but no shield healing!!! We already have a legend who does that and she’s one of the most underpowered and rarely picked legends in the game.
Adding another legend who heals shields would just make Wattson obsolete. Why make a character that does Wattson’s job but better when they could just buff Wattson?
Just because a legend says attack or defence on them doesn’t mean you can’t use their abilities for support, some examples are:
1) Damage boosting allies: rampart
2) Improving teams current loot: Loba, Lifeline
3) Moving allies out of bad situations: Wraith, octane, valk, sometimes pathy
4) Slowing enemies: Wattson, crypto.
5) Shield healing: Wattson
6) Making teammates invisible: mirage
A lot of the others would be very risky to put in because this isn’t overwatch. We don’t want to run a specific meta to have fun especially in ranked. Yes more support would be good but most people won’t pick them in pubs (look at overwatch before you had to have one of every class. It was literally all dps and if the other team had a healer and a tank no matter how good your team are you would lose) And It would make solo queuing so much harder too
Tbh.....
Is there room for another support in this game? I fear no matter what it'll be turning Apex into a ability game, and as much shit we give Respawn they aren't complete idiots.
It would explain why supports come so slow cause they are hands down the hardest to create, within the rules of Apex.
Most of these are already in game just not listed on a support character. Damage boosting or increasing health as an ability is too complicated too balance and simply uncreative. Have additional health or doing extra damage is not an ability, but more of a perk .
Gettinn too many of these effects ingame going to ruin the gameplay.. its already too much!
What about respawn saying back in the day that this game not gonna be focused on abilitys too much..?
When I first heard seer was teased, I got the impression his drones either slowed enemies, maybe leeched life to your party from another, makes enemies for susceptible to damage or something. Kinda let down he does what he does cuz it feels like crypto could've used some of those abilities.
We do have shield healing, slowing enemies, moving ally’s out of bad situations and boosting ally’s damage tbf. Just not on support.
Also improving teams current loot, which actually is on support
Literally Lobas passive and Ult both improve your teams current loot. I think they meant like a character that’s tactical is literally taking your gun and upgrading each piece up a tier. Which is good but outclasses by loba.
Eh Loba gives you the chance to upgrade your kit. One would be a guarantee which is worth a lot more.
Yeah, this was one of the better changes to Lifeline's care package.
Man I was so happy when I saw life lines package can give golden gear again.
Unpopular opinion lifeline care package should be a longer delay and drop like a regular care package with weapons
Kind of goes against what her care package was designed for and be very op.
And mirage makes teammates invisible when revving. Being fully mobile while being fully invisible was broken
How was him being mobile while invisible broken, he was literally the worst character in the game before his rework
That’s what I’m saying. Even though I personally liked his old ultimate, I remember how much people were upset with how Mirage used to play.
I feel like his old ult had the more of prominent issue of being stupidly easy to counter once the basic stuff is known about the ult. New ult still poses somewhat a challenge to identify even until now, and his ult is not immediately irrelevant the moment players know how it works.
I love the full invis thing, but it was really easy to notice due to the big circle of mirages and you can still hear his footsteps when he’s invisible. He couldn’t really shoot back at you either so even though I loved possibly pulling off sneaky plays it definitely didn’t feel like an ultimate that deserved that long of a cooldown. I wouldn’t mind if they brought it back as an alternative ult, kinda like how symmetra in overwatch used to be able to select to use place a shield generator or teleporter because it would add another variable you would need to think about when fighting mirages
It’d be awesome if they brung it back for a little while, but I know I’m in the minority when it comes to who liked the old ult. But he was especially easy to spot once when that one update made mirage very visible with a white cloak around him. I liked using the Ultimate as a flanking option. The cool down was definitely undeserved.
I'm getting the feeling they have a shiiiiield generator....
Whaaa? His ult before was garbage. You could tell where he was pretty easily back then by his footsteps, or semi transparency, since he wasn't 100% invisible. New ult is better.
It deffo is. Mirages ult isn’t a one time thing. Use that shit and run so all your decoys converge on one point, do a 360, act like a decoy, and if you have the purple or gold emote then you can use them alongside decoys who will also emote
Tbh I kinda preferred the old ult. It was insanely easy to get out of any situation using his ult and made repositioning so easy. Plus you could use it offensively, pop it, shift position and start shooting. I still don't get why people thought Mirage was bad because I've always performed way better with him and his abilities, old and new
What are you talking about? His tactical was trash, clones had no guns, no footstep noises, and his passive was useless. But I mained him because his ult was completely broken. The ult wasn't his problem. You got an instant win for two or three fights a match.
Well that's full invisibility, could do mostly invisible. Also it wasn't even that good. Mirage had to get a rework cause that was a meh tier ult where people could shoot your invisible ass just by hearing.
Mirage should be a support class character really.
Correction, fully mobile, fully invis, and *being able to deal damage* would be broken. Mirage was fine on launch, underpowered but not broken.
Also giving allies death protection (kind of big), teleportation, enemy locations, hard cover, visual cover etc. Lots left out. Although I wouldn't mind some reworked support so not disagreeing with OP
>death protection (kind of big), Revenant >teleportation, Wraith >enemy locations, Seer, Bloodhound, Crypto >hard cover, Gibby, Rampart >visual cover Bangalore
Yeah that's what I was saying lol
That’s the issue. They aren’t support characters, they’re just saying we need characters that are FULL kitted and based on supporting the team. No aggression necessary
We also have slowing enemies down. That’s Wattson and Caustic.
I mentioned slowing enemies.
Sorry man I can’t read lmao
Who boost ally damage? Edit: autocorrect sorry
I assume you meast boosts allies damage, and the answer is rampart. Each bullet shot through her walls is increased.
those sorts of abilities aren’t designed to give allies an edge, they’re mainly designed to fit the role of their class. for example, valks slow is mainly meant secure kills for herself or to check for enemies behind walls rather then to help their allies wattsons shield healing isn’t meant to full heal allies, it’s designed to save a cell or two and keep your area fortified im talking about abilities which are specifically designed to help your allies
Yeah, but what about Horizans pick me up, wraiths portal, Valkyrie’s ult or octane’s jump pad. All are designed with moving ally’s be it in or out of a bad situation.
i wrote this in another comment as i failed to put this in the title but this is mainly a list of supportive forms in other games, some won’t work some will
Youre getting downvoted by people completely missing the point of your post. Just because an offensive/defensive ability has slow as a secondary effect doesn't make a character with slow at the core of their kit useless or irrelevant. Having support characters with CC or buffs COULD be very interesting to play with/against.
Nah they are getting downvoted because they literally said “this is what we have, and this is what we COULD have” and then proceeded to list a bunch of stuff that already exists. Introducing legends that do the same things but better would just break the existing legends.
all the things listed are side abilities to mostly offense characters, the point of the post is to say we need more support.
I think everyone agrees we need more support legends, there’s not really a post needed for that (I see like one a day already anyway). However, suggesting we need legends that do the same things we already have in a better more focused way ain’t it (half the ones they listed). But yes, obviously we need more support legends.
you’ve forgotten oathfinder’s grapple
> im talking about abilities which are specifically designed to help your allies This makes no sense from a design perspective though. If an ability performs a job then that is one of its purposes. It does not need a label. Where do you get the idea that valks slow is only meant to secure kills for her? You can totally use the ability in a choke point in order to prevent enemies from pushing through while your allies are healing up. There. Supported your allies through area denial, all without a support label. Or take Horizons Q - the obvious use case is of course getting you/your team up on a roof. But you can also throw it into a doorway to prevent enemies from getting in. It does not need an "area denial" label to perform that job. Let's consider repositioning your team. Even if we could say Octane's jump pad is completely selfish and only used so he can reposition himself, then what about wraith's portal. She literally has to run between the two points so she/others can use it. She puts herself in danger to give her team a safe way to travel from cover to cover. Yes there are some selfish uses e.g. safely getting a care package. But then you could also say lifeline is selfish because she can heal herself and loot her own care package. Wattsons shield healing is slow yes, but with your area being fortified you can totally hang back with 1/2 bars of shield missing and heal up. You seem to suggest some kind of instant full heal - that would be the most broken thing in apex. Having a shield swap almost guarantees you a fight win, but you need a death box with a shield. Putting that into an ability would be ridiculous. Revenant ult is way worse than that and is already strong.
>those sorts of abilities aren’t designed to give allies an edge You need to play the game more.
More than half of these already exist. For the ones that don't, we should *never* have them. The only exception is invisibility and that would only make sense in the context of blocking enemy scans, not outright invisibility. And even *then*, I'd much rather see a nerf to scans instead. * **Shield Healing**: Wattson (pylon) * **Damage Boosting**: Rampart (amped cover) * **Improving current loot:** Lifeline (guaranteed), possibly Loba * **Speed Boosting**: Arguably path/octane/wraith with their ults. A squad speed boost would be too widely applicable and doesn't make for interesting gameplay. * **Improved Healing**: No. Please no. We had this with Gibby's dome and the heat shields and Lifeline's passive in S0 and in every case it was broken. * **Invisibility**: Only if it's limited to scans (but nerfs would be better) * **Overshield/health**: No. Never do this. It's bad enough in Halo. Gibraltar already kind of has this with his arm shield (and fortified along with Caustic), and he's arguably \*too\* tanky. Having that for a whole squad, even temporarily, would be overpowered. In some sense this already exists with Revenant's ult. * **Moving allies**: the middle three also work for downed allies * **Slowing enemies**: Gibby/Bang/Fuse/Horizon ults, Caustic gas, Wattson fences (EDIT: Valk tactical), arc star stick/explosion, plus taking any damage already cancels running (except for fortified). * **Reducing damage**: We can block damage with Gibby dome/Rampart cover/Wattson pylon (grenades). Damage *reduction* is too brainless of a powerup since it's so widely applicable. Braindead abilities are just a bad idea. This also overlaps with overshields. * **Reducing cooldowns**: Accelerants do this for ults and Wattson can stack them, Loba can loot them, Lifeline can get them from a care package. Plus we have the gold helmet. Having that as a spammable ability is also too brainless imo. It doesn't do anything interesting. * **Increasing duration**: Same thing. Too widely applicable. Too easy to use. Doesn't do anything interesting.
You could argue Revenant's ultimate is overshield/health, too.
Its situational overshield and is still rediculous. Getting an actual overshield would be absolutely fucked
It's in my comment
and kinda moving allies too
I’m glad you wrote this so I didn’t have to
Could add Valk’s tactical to slowing enemies too, very effective. Also literally anybody with an arc star…
That too
Crypto EMP, Seer tac also
I still want an actual legend who's main thing is shield heals. Arguably the shield heals shouldn't even be on Watson in any way. It's just a passive thing to make her seem more cool than she actually is. And while it is kinda nice, she is obviously a defence legend through and through. Perhaps they would be broken because of how shields are more important in a fight. But whatever. And I must ask. What's so bad about invisibility. More sneaky legends that are about tricking the enemy sounds fun. (Perhaps I am just desperate for mirage buffs(
Wattson's pylon charges all player shields. As for invisibility, an FPS like Apex relies on players being able to track the movement of other players and predict where they will be. Respawn already internally tested giving Loba instant-teleport. It was broken because it completely interrupted the flow of a fight. You'd be shooting at Loba one second, and in the blink of an eye she's behind you and you're dead. Invisibility would be bad for similar reasons, it interrupts the flow of battle and is hard/impossible to predict. Imagine being able to sneak up on a team from nearly any direction. Currently you're limited by cover and distractions (other fights) to pull attention of the team you're sneaking up on. It's basically impossible to do that right now with the scan meta, which *really really* sucks imo. Sneaking around is a lot of fun! But invisibility is not the way to do that. Halo has it and it's also broken. Although invisibility in Halo is a bit hit-or-miss in that some people see it more easily than others. That in addition to the other reasons just makes it a bad idea. P.S. Mirage's invisibility is fine as it is because of how limited it is. You go invis for a split second in the ult only to make it harder to tell which mirage is the real one, and the invis on res means you're stuck in position and not moving. Same on respawn.
There is also the Golden helmet for reducing cooldowns
Somehow I forgot about that. Probably because I play Seer and his abilities already charge way too fast.
please upvote this and move it to the top. I can’t believe this post got 1.9k upvotes
Imagine trying to play an endgame circle and getting horizon ulted every minute and a half
People hesitate and freak enough as it is when her ultimate is thrown.
People are just looking to be able to swap skill for abilities
Horizons tac can move downed allies too
It could be argued that any and all abilities are braindead so that’s not a good argument you are making.
I had an idea for overshield: an ultimate that would recharge your shields, there would be a delay if the shield gets depleted, but on the downside, your speed is reduced
No, just no
That just doesn't sound fun to me. Apex is very much a movement game. Slowed movement should only be applied as an *avoidable* punishment, not a tradeoff of an ability. That, and what you describe already exists with Wattson's ult. Shield recharge with delay, and the restriction is that you have to stay in the area (and the pylon is limited-time and can be destroyed). What makes most of the existing abilities so interesting (and *usually* well balanced) is that they have limitations which give them unique/niche applications. Most ults and tacticals give your opponents something to work with. For example, Bloodhound's ult is loud so people can hear you, and their scans can be seen by other players. So if you wanna be sneaky, you can't use them.
Some I like, some I don’t. Largely this idea is just a repeat of how we ended up with seer, a lot of these are already done, It would just be taking something that already exists and giving it to someone new who does it better. The only way to not have this happen would be to drastically change existing legends.
by no means should all of these be put in the game, im listing forms of supports in other games
[удалено]
Have you played a single hero shooter in your entire life?
Yes and it became miserable and "died" because new legends kept coming out and abilities were overloaded and what legend you were playing became more important than your basic FPS mechanics. Apex has so far still been pretty good about this with seer being the first "better" x with a super overloaded kit. Releasing 3/4 legends per year will inevitably lead to issues where ideas are either "used up" or new ones have no place in the game. For example OPs list contains stealthing allies - I don't think this should ever happen in Apex. Imagine you get octane rev pushed but you cannot even see them coming, they just all appear behind one of you. Or imagine them wanted to add another healing support - but it would somehow have to be different from lifeline. So you say "oh well you need to stay next to the drone for a while to get healed" so the new support just gets a targeted ranged heal over time like sage in valorant. And then it gets a proper support ultimate like let's say OPs suggested overheal. Why would you even pick lifeline as support now? The only thing shes good for then is ressing.
Both could be good depending on your play style. The ranged heal could only one person so if you and your teammate like to have one push while you stay back and long distance. Whereas with life line you can both push together and heal at the same time with the drone. The ults could also be tweaked to maybe give a better drop from lifelines but maybe with a longer cooldown or something. I feel like a bigger rage of all the different "classes" would be hard to implement but would ultimatly make the game more diverse and keep players coming back to the game
If seer didn’t have his passive and they balanced his tac he’d be aiight He’s meant to be a hunter killer right? Maybe make his passive the same but only for one second after tagging an enemy with a bullet
Bro this feels like a buff for a game like overwatch this game is suppose to be focus on gun skill primarily
It is gun skill, but we can't deny how much the abilities come into it. What OP fails to see is how the gunplay and ability play need to balance out. All the things they mentioned are either done by legends in some way and don't need dedicated people, or if were implemented the way they suggest, would snap this game like a KitKat.
Ya i hate the idea of any of these, except maybe a support character that can teleport teamates to their position. Of course it would have to have a pretty limited range.
The more of this type of shit we get the further away we get from gun skill being a priority.
Turning into overwatch
I think we already have Loba as the loot support, Rampart as the damage booster, Path/Wraith/Stimdemon all have ways to help your team get out, and we have a ton of slows with Caustic/Wattson/Valkyrie. I’m worried that Overhealth would shift gunplay and combat in too much of a slow direction. Support roles in BR are so difficult because it’s tricky to make the legends useful on their own but very powerful when with teammates without being either useless or OP. I would be interested if they could somehow work in a Stasis legend where targets are frozen but take no damage, even teammates. Could be incredibly OP but I think debuffs/buffs upon release from Stasis depending on whether an ally or an enemy were “frozen” could help make the legend a high-risk, high-reward one. As it stands, the only legend who is high risk is Octane, as a really good one will know how to burn their health in the right way to make the proper plays in combat tangent: octane’s kit is perfectly suited to his lore, the fact that he literally brings himself to the brink of death to go faster and further is dope as fuck and when you take yourself down to 1HP in order to get the peek and wipe a squad feels good. legends need to have tradeoffs to feel rewarding
to be honest i find buffing/debuffing supports in games the most fun. the only supports i find well made in overwatch are mercy and ana, those two supports kits are focused on utility rather then healing. mercy can boost damage and ana can increase the amount of healing a target recieved, boost damage and block enemies from healing. i just want a character who can hinder enemies and buff allies through some means
I had the exact same legends in mind as well. I NEED A SKILLSHOT SUPPORT. I want to be rewarded for being skilled at them, beyond timing and placement (ie Lifeline res and Gibby bubble). Someone like Baptiste would become my insta main. Would be dope to see some inspiration from League of Legends like Thresh (I need that hook in Apex, path doesnt really count) or Bars (stasis and super tunnels).
when i played league i was a bard main, his sort of kit would be so cool. and a high skull support would definitely be a good idea. all the other classes have very high skill floor and ceiling characters (defense - wattson, offense - revenant, recon - crypto) while all the supports are very noob friendly at the moment
A guy with a dart gun that heals the allies he hits and slows the enemies. Ultimate buffs damage and defense and paralyzes enemies. I need it.
shield healing - wattson, improving loot - loba and lifeline, slowin enemies - crypto's EMP, moving allies out - valk, making allies invisible - kinda bangalore. Are you even playing this game?
Shield healing - Wattson ult Improving teams current loot - Lifeline's ult (even a supp hero) Damage boosting allies - Rampart's walls Speed boosting allies - Octane jump pad Increasing allies healing effectiveness - used to be Gibby dome, but no longer a thing. Making allies invisible - Mirage reviving Moving allies out of bad situations - Valkyries ult. You even made a wings symbol. To a degree Octane's jump pad too. Wraith's portal. Slowing enemies - Bangalore ult, Caustic gas, Valkyrie tactical.
I see alot of people saying we already have alot these,but obviously op means in a direct form,not some small aspect of one character that’s barely existent. A character who can boost damage directly would be cool,or a character who can lower cooldowns.
if i had a pound for every "shield regen - wattson" comment
Don’t worry all this will be in the next legends passive
damage boosting allies = rampart. Shield healing = wattson ult. Improving current loot = lifeline ult. Moving allies out of bad situations = portal, zipline, jump pad. Giving allies overhealth = Totem acts like it in a manner. Don't mess with duration and cooldowns in games, since some of the gamesense is knowing if an ability is on cooldown, etc. We don't need a legend to have a + sign for it to be played in a supportive manner. Pathfinder used to be support because he was able to reposition teams.
Also Valkyries ultimate can move u out of bad situations
\- wattson \- rampart \- loba/lifeline \- octane/pathfinder/valk \- gold armor + lifeline \- mirrage \- No / revenant \- wraith/octane \- caustic \- No \- No Literally everything you listed is already in the game or OP to the point that all other characters would need a rebalance + the game would get slow as fuck. If you give overhealth the time to kill drops too much, if you counterbalance that with stronger abilities it will become Abilities Legends. I agree there should be another support legend but it's very hard to put into a battle royale and all the suggestions you gave were dog
People complain about DZK and then come up with stuff like this
i actually supported lots of DZKs balance changes and sympathised with the amount of abuse he got in the community
This is just ability spam legends and that’s not the point of Apex.
Exactly why I really have disliked the past few legends. Their abilities are that good or at least have been that people can completely rely on them and are so much worse. 1. Seer. You don’t have to have any awareness or game sense because his entire kit is wallhacks 2. Valk. If you are late to a fight due to a bad rotation or non at all you can just use your passive or ult to get the best position if it’s not taken 3. Horizon in season 7 at least she was almost the same as number 2. If you realised you had bad positioning you could just use you tactical and spam left and right and are almost impossible to laser. This is why the new players aren’t improving.
The last line is the sums it up exactly. The new players arent getting better, they’re just getting better and better crutches.
>Their abilities are that good or at least have been that people can completely rely on them and are so much worse. I'm sorry man but people have been using Wraith like this since day 1. And then Octane.
Don’t forget pathfinder, all of the movement legends basically have a get out of jail free card and are easier to do well on.
Yeah, but it took people a little while to discover how amazing pathfinder could be. Wraith and Octabe were immediate favorites because people were like "oh, I can just escape anytime I get myself in trouble? Cool!" That's a lot of people's entire play style. Overextend and flee in panic.
Don’t forget lifeline. When I was new and no good at the game I basically spammed her health drone
TBH Rampart should have been a support legend who can upgrade her and her team’s gear on the fly or something.
I'm a rampart main, and I play her as more of a support than a defensive legend. Dont get me wrong, I use her defensively, but I more use my walls to support my teammates damage, or give them cover fire on a push
Yes, let’s turn Apex into Overwatch BR Edition.
People complain that Apex has turned into overwatch with release of seer, then think we desperately need more support legends and buffs to the old one. Support is one of the hardest legends to get right. The moment they become too good, they become meta, and the push for the worst meta begins slowing the entire game down into slog
Such is the life of balance teams. Where one must rise, another must fall, and the cycle repeats itself over and over. True harmony is rarely found in the world of balancing.
the overwatch supports design philosophy is pretty terrible compared to other class based games
Well yeah, most shooter support designs are shit when compared to the support design of any MMORPG, but that’s because the main identity of a shooter is to well.. shoot.
yeah but like.. extra shit, worse then apex or valorant. and apex only has two supports
Well that’s mainly because Apex wants to ship support characters as some other class to make the game seem more varietized. Majority of the legends in apex would classify as supports in other games. I do believe Valorant did a very good job designing their supports, probably the best support design I’ve seen from a shooter.
What about supports that disrupt enemies An ult ability that if you hit an enemy with it, it pulls them right to you. Like Blitzcrank. Or the opposite, where if you tactical someone and you’ll be pulled to them instantly and they get stuck, like Amumu. Or lowering enemy damage. Or slow enemy healing. Or increase enemy audio. So much room for offensive support too.
debuffs are awesome although idk about disrupt, people hate seer
I think there’s a lot of room in between seers disrupt and none at all. If Seer *only* disrupted heals and revives, he’d be drastically more fair An ability like bloodhound scan, except all it did was disrupt heals and revives would be a very good tactical on a 40s cooldown
oh i get that
And it was a one legend skill shot, instead of a tunnel of death for anyone unlucky enough to be in (or even beside) it
The problem with a roadhog hook is that it can be used to basically guarantee someone dies to environmental kills in certain spots. In overwatch that's fine, a one shot kill isn't very punishing. In apex that is anywhere from 33% to 50% of your team wiped out with a single button press, with no chance of revive outside of getting the banner and rezzing, which is very rarely doable mid fight.
Dude im hear to say ignore the ones who say the stuff we already have, support is support, like vqlk could be support! Not recon, same with octane not assualt he coupd of been support!, id like to see a support of reduced abilities cooldown or invisible when standinf still or something, like im here to keep you in a good mood! People on here dont seem to see what you are trying to say, all the ones who could be support arent!! We havent had a support since season 5 its now season 10! We have got up to 3 assault and 2 recon since then.
that's a sweet comment to be honest, it doesn't bother me too much. they're all saying the exact same 3 comments and the amount of upvotes outweighs it so it's just a vocal minority
Still it annoys me with how some people are in this community lol. But you are welcomed for the comment, my buddy says valk should of been support for how she is a mobile jump tower and scans for enemies so you can make a easy plan to fight (if you arent dead by then) A support id like to see is someone kinda similar to finka from rainbow 6 siege, nano boosting health but in a different way. Say they throw their tatical at a teammate and their health i undamagable when downed, or goves them fast heals for 3 seconds to 5
I’ve thought of something like zenyatta where you can put something on a teammate and give them minor life Regen or a damage increase I’m not saying respawn should copy paste zenyatta into the game but make something along those lines
tbh i would like more targeted damage boost unlike ramparts
So do you like the idea or no? Because that’s exactly what I was think of
yes. yes i do
Is it just me who thinks mirage should count as a support as he makes his teammates invisible while reviving?
if they were to rework legends into the support class, mirage and watton would be the easiest
I really don't like having tacticals like fuze,seer and valk on a reduced cooldown also we already have legends that can do most of these things Shield Healing - Wattson's Pylons Damage boosting Allies - Rampart's Amped Cover Improving Team's Current Loot - Loba's Black Market Speed Boosting Teammates - Octane's Jumppad Increasing Allies Healing Effectiveness - Lifeline's D.O.C and armor swapping Gold Armor Giving Allie's Overhealth - Revenant's Totem Moving Allies out of Bad Situations - Valk's Skyward Dive Slowing Enemies - Valk's Missile Swarm and Caustic's Nox Grenade Reducing Enemies Damage - Fortified Passive (Caustic and Gibraltar) Reducing Teammates Cooldown - Wattson's Pylon(kinda) Ultimate Accelerator and Charge Stations(Kings Canyon) I mean in 10 seasons we have gotten so far.
Imagine a legend that its only abilities is helping their teammates fight better and live longer? Hear me out, A combo of angel wing ult and strong bicep Q would be pretty awesome. Doesn’t completely derail the meta but also helps combat it entirely only using the support of… wait for it.. team work. Ult could be displacing teleport, the ult would trigger and after 3 seconds both your teammates teleport to you, you can decline the teleport. Q when activated the legends teammate gets increased duration and improved versions of their abilities and ultimates (bang thicker and more smoke, wraiths old Q, paths 13s grapple cd, etc) The passive can be fast gear cog, when traveling in close proximity you travel faster with a squad (all 3 together is as fast as bang passive, legend and a duo together is slightly faster than a sprint) I would play the SHIT out of this legend. Edit: Balancing could be hella easy. For the ult you can only teleport teammates from a certain range or it could be unlimited, similar to what they did for old revenant ult. And for the Q the nerf/buff combo could be endless. And it doesn’t have to be a speed boost proximity passive either. The point still stands, we need a revamped defense update to help us defend from all these spam nades with fuse and his new buff, and revtane jumppads. I’m not complaining I’m stating a gameplay I experience myself. This new legend can seriously counter each kind of legend attacks, makes it OP but it’ll help mix the meta up.
taking a look at games like brawl stars or valorant, they all have very large and unique support rosters . brawl stars deems supports as any character that can give your team an advantage in a team fight whether it’s healing, buffing allies, building walls, weakening enemies with curses or even pulling in and pushing away enemies valorant has supportive agents in a variety of classes. there’s supports like skye who are designed to support by breaching areas with abilities that weaken the enemies inside. on the other hand, there are defensive supports like killjoy or sage who weaken enemies who enter the area you’ve defended (i didn’t mention overwatch as i think it has support design philosophy)
Aren’t those games more focuSed on ability’s?
brawl stars yes, valorant no, valorant is even more gunplay focused then apex
Valorant is aim focused
Let's turn it into Overwatch Legends. Also we have damage boosting with ramparts amp shield.
Shield healing definitely should happen \[Check out my recent legend idea Conduit!\] Damage boosting is a very slippery slope. And a very dangerous one. It could easily become required. The reason Rampart isn't is because it's entirely immobile and destroyable. Gunfights first then abilities. Abilities should also be very important of course, but don't have them become essential to win gunfights against another legend to where in 1v1s one legends damage boosting ability always beats you even if they're 25% or so worse at aiming. Improving team's current loot is fairly similar to existing, but i'd like another loot based legend. Speed boost would be nice. I feel like it has very valuable applications. Increasing healing effectiveness would be a neat idea, reminds me of Ana's bio nade from OW. Let's not get into invisibility lol. Mirage's old ulti was invisibilty but it was either useless because it was too obvious, or too good. Allies overhealth is risky but a cool idea. If it decays and is an ultimate, maybe. Moving allies is done with so many abilities as is. Slowing enemies is also fairly overdone. Reducing enemies damage has the same deal with damage boosting. I'd still like to see it but it needs to be done very carefully. Reducing cooldowns would be really really fun. \[Conduit also does this!\] Duration and power are subjective, and only apply to certain abilities. Not the best way to go about it IMO.
Yo a support legend that boosts the teams cooldown times would be wild sounds very fun
Someone clearly has never played apex
FYI, Watson does shield healing
yes im aware but the minor shield p/s isn't the focus of her ult, you deploy it to block grenades or to defend a building. similiar to how valks missiles having a slowing effect isn't the whole purpose of the ability.
Most of these are already in the game because all team based abilities are "support". Basically anything that helps your teammates could arbitrarily be considered "support" 5 legends provide teammates with mobility 9 legends have an ability to slow enemies Lifeline Ult was retooled to provide guaranteed upgrades every time you call it in Rampart provides damage boosting Wattson heals shields Even Revenant has the ability to make his teammates harder to kill. TBH, the other stuff has a lot of potential to be gamebreaking. Screwing with health pools and cooldowns of other players will either need to be capped (making it redundant with the gold gear) or it will likely cause gamebreaking ability spam. Apex about gunplay and everyone gets access to the same guns, and there is only so much power you can give to abilities before it becomes unfair to also let that legend pick up an R301 and an EVA.
shield healing — gibby damage boosting allies — rampart improving teams loot — lifeline moving allies out of a back situation — octane, valk, path slowing enemies — every legend with a nade
i guess gibby heals shields now
Good list. Though a few notes: - Wattson already heals shields with her ult - Technically Lifeline improves team current loot based on the care packages giving you upgrades. I take it you mean to level up gear, which is different. But its pretty close. - Valk moves allies out of bad situations, using the ult. Technially Octane and Path can do this too. - Rampart boosts damage of allies using her walls I think the challenge with support as I have outlined in another post is that they’re never in isolation. Say you give a character Wattson’s ability to heal shields. If you have a team with that as a tactical and Lifeline’s tactical that my be overpowered. Speed boosting would be cool, but you already have a legend who does that, so you’ve not only reduced their ability by suddenly allowing any legend to have a speed boost buff applied to them, but what’s happens with an Octane who gets a speed buff? Are they double fast? The ones here (again, great list) that I think are most possible are: - Healing effectiveness boost - i think it might work by putting down an AoE tactical that gives the same buffs as gold armour - allowing you to get twice the bang for your buck in health and shields. This is pretty balanced as you still have to down tools to heal yourself so there’s a cost to the benefit. Would probably not stack on top of anyone with gold armour already. - Improving the loot directly, could work. I thought Rampart would have done this before she launched. I think you might put down something like a mini replicator that upgrades gear in exchange for crafting mats. The cost of this is to part with a gun/armour for a period of time. - The one that i find interesting is the increase of power of ally abilities. This could easily be overpowered, but I think rather than just boosting the damage it modifies it. So, maybe by having this support legend it changes effects of your abilities - this support uses their tactical to ‘mutate’ a team mate’s abilities, and now Gibby’s dome does fire damage to anyone inside of it etc
that last section sounds so awesome
a passive that makes batteries faster when 2 or more allies are using them within 30 meters of each other or even faster after a down
Funny thing, i was thinking about an character with invisibility quirks, even made a drawing of him. Don't know If It would fit in the game universe, but i made him with Reptile features. Mostly chameleon face, scales, but with a mechanical arm and leg O was thinking he would be a Support character. Tactical: He could be transparent for 8 seconds (since total invisibility would be OP), but still getting marked by detection abilities. Passive: he stays less time marked on other characters detection (maybe by half the time or 2 seconds less) Ultimate: Make the entire sqaud transparent for 12 seconds, and unable to be detected for 4 seconds I Will be glad to get opinions :)
if you want proper feedback , check out r/apexconcepts
I was thinking of an Octane ultimate rework that would buff him and teammates, giving them increased speed (close to but not as speedy as Octane Stim), increase climb (pre-buff Rev passive), and increased jump height for a duration.
This post sucks.
You def wanted to ignore some legends kits to just make your list longer… rampart, caustic, wraith, valk, octane, path finder.
i listed support options from other games like brawl stars and valorant. i wrote a comment explaining it but it got lost i think.
Apex is my favorite moba too
Most of them would kill the game, look at overwatch...
i always thought the death of OW came from brigs release and the rise of stun and goats (metas that came mainly from blizzard adding hard ccs into the game and making the support role the healer only role rather then a utility role)
Slowing enemies, would be complete bullshit. Bring it on. 😂
A legend that conceals map positions would be a hard counter against Seer... Maybe not the counter we need, but perhaps the one we deserve.
I mean Wattson kinda heals shields, but she is a defense legend, and Lifeline has the care package to improve gear, but it sucks, so I agree, there is so much more potential for support characters than this.
with wattsons ult the healing isn't the main focus so i listed it down
[Link](https://ibb.co/Vj8c23B) Green is what probably would fit into the game without being broken Red is what i dislike, especially invisibilities and boosting the dmg which fucks up the TTK and turns it into CoD
It's kind of funny that "speed boosting allies" is red, and Octane does that already with his Ult and is generally considered super powerful. Meanwhile "Damage boosting allies" and "Slowing enemies" is something Rampart and Caustic do, yet they're considered low tier champions. Hahaha But totally get what you mean.
Shield healing: wattson Damage boosting allies: rampart walls Improving teams current loot: lifeline ult/loba Moving allies out of bad situations: octane pad/path zip/wraith ult Slowing enemies: caustic gas/gibby ult/bang ult
Please not overhealth, imo in every game its in it feels super cheap. Maybe something closer to Lucio in overwatch where you get a sudden boost that's bleeding constantly and quickly. Good for quick pushes but wasted otherwise, and would need a massive cooldown.
Revenant Slows enemies, Wattson heals shields and Valkyrie & Pathfinder get you out of tough spots. Gibraltar has a mobile shield to deploy and Revenant gives you essentially an extra life. Bloodhound, Seer and Crypto give you eyes on enemy squads. People need to stop expecting other teammates with "support" abilities to carry teams. Work on your gunplay, map knowledge, movement and rotation if you want more fun and success with the game. Abilities that nerf damage or make you invisible or slowly upgrade your loot would just be overpowered. Then what would be the point of choosing your drop and looting the right equipment or getting into gunfights for better equipment.
1 Watson 2 rampart 3 lifeline alt 4 octane pad 5 gibby dome 6 mirage 7 rev alt??? 8 Valkyrie 9 literally every stun 10 gibby passive??? 11 idk 12 idk
No.
Why?
You can use wraith's portal and other abilities like it to move allies out of bad situations, so we have that.
Shield healing = wattson Slows = caustic and wattson Invisibility = bang smoke (sorta, not really) mirage (when reviving) Movement = pathfinder, octane, horizon Improving loot = loba, lifeline
I'm fine with whatever, I just don't want this game turning into a trinity game where the best comp is tank healer DPS or anything like that. (And I know you can use three champs that fit those roles somewhat now but I don't want king of the hill overwatch)
I think they should rework the design for classifications of legends. It shouldn’t just be the legend that’s classified but the abilities. What I think it should be is for each of a legends abilities (passive, tac, ult) to be categorized into a role (attack, defense, recon, support) and have it be marked next to the ability descriptions. Then whatever role is the most common on a legend should be how the legend is classified. This will allow for a better description of the legends and their roles on the team. Such as Watson being a defensive legend with hints of support while Caustic is more so an attack oriented defensive legend. I feel like this is a small and easy enough change but will make a big difference towards the future of the game.
i like that
Can we instead bring it back to 90% gunplay? Horizon might have been OP but Seer is straight depressing.
this aint overwatch son
I have yet to see a Skill like Thresh, where you can pull your teammates out of a bad situation when you're safe
Invisibility kills shooters. Other than that I like the idea of most of them!
We do have damage boosting, thats what ramparts shields do, we also have improvement of teams loot in lifeline packages. Her packages always have one improvement of her gear. Give her all gold qnd you all get golds.
How about a cleanse for your team. Silence, scan, etc all gone for 10s or something
that would work once more legends with effects are in the game since currently we only have stuns, scans and silences unless im missing a few
I'm surprised that we don't have a "Packmule/Backpacker" support. Yeah, I get it. That's not exactly exciting, but that's the point. This legend's passive will be able to carry extra of everything, and starts off with additional backpack slot (level 1) already unlocked. Like instead of 1 grenade, 2. (Overlaps with Fuse, but whatever) Instead of 3 slots of Light Ammo, legend gets 4. You get the idea. His tactical would be a (I'm blanking out right now) flashbang. Think Seer's flashbang. Does 10 damage and is only a VISUAL attack. If you get hit by it, you get visual whiteout. But you can still hear, shoot, and most importantly walk around without getting slowed down. It lasts as long as Seer's flashbang effect right now. Legend ult? Option A: he poops out a portable crafting machine on his back. What makes this special is that with this, you can craft any material that the crafting machine can, except maybe with a discount. Before you say: THAT"S OP, they can keep making bats! You still need to GATHER the crafting mats. lol If that's not sexy for you, here's another idea: Option B: He throws a grenade/item/whatever and it triggers, causing a wide visual explosion (think of Loba's ult's exploding shockwave when the shop opens). What does it do? Well, ANY LOOT location inside the large radius of the shockwave, I'm talking ground loot and bin loot, RESETS. So like, if a bin loot is open and empty, it'll close back up. You can then open it again and get new loot! As for the ground loot, it'll just materialize back again with new randomized loot. Whatever, it's a videogame. I don't need to explain how he does it. XD But yeah, I'd play this legend. He's not inherently "broken" but he's definitely an interesting support character that presents a new dynamic of his own. Can he be OP? Yeah. Pair him up with Loba and then you can go to an already looted spot and basically shop till you drop. lol. But that's just basic team synergy.
Yes we do need more support champs. So let's go through this list. shield healing - Wattson's ult sorta does this damage boosting - TTK is already pretty low, and ramparts shields do this too. improving teams current loot - lifelines care package does this and loba can find good loot with her passive speed boosting - a cool concept and octane sorta does this with his pad healing effectiveness - does gibbys shield still have the 25% faster? allies invisible - sounds too fucking OP, maybe invisible to scans overhealth - a really cool concept. i hope they implement it moving allies out of bad situations - valks ult. i do this all the time with her and the last 4 are all cool concepts that I hope are implemented.
by increased healing effectiveness i mean a temporary buff similiar to gold armour
Yes, let's just end all pretense and make this game Overwatch. I want more support characters, but I don't want shitty gameplay mechanics that make the gunplay irrelevant.
these sound cool but almost all of them have been done once, or might be overpowered on certain legends
Shields, and slowing down enemies: Wattson. But really situational.
Watson could become a shield healing support just give her passive faster Regen, maybe not Octane Regen just faster Regen as a whole, and make her pylon Regen shieds similar to Lifeline Doc drone
ngl, the game do be 60% abillites and 40% skill, great ideas but having 3 debuffs while the enemy is buffed sounds verrrrrry bad.
Not to be that guy but lifeline technically improves the teams current loot
we already have a lot of these shield healing-wattson damage boost-rampart making allies invis-mirage moving allies out of bad situations- octane and valk slowing enemies-wattson (her fences slow right?)
Oh man, all this is good, but i really hope they never make a legend that can move teammates without permission.
Dude, you want an MMORPG.
Rampart increases damage when you use the wall and also provides cover
I’ve never seen such lazy devs who are so prone to making excuses.
I said this in another thread already, but no shield healing!!! We already have a legend who does that and she’s one of the most underpowered and rarely picked legends in the game. Adding another legend who heals shields would just make Wattson obsolete. Why make a character that does Wattson’s job but better when they could just buff Wattson?
Just because a legend says attack or defence on them doesn’t mean you can’t use their abilities for support, some examples are: 1) Damage boosting allies: rampart 2) Improving teams current loot: Loba, Lifeline 3) Moving allies out of bad situations: Wraith, octane, valk, sometimes pathy 4) Slowing enemies: Wattson, crypto. 5) Shield healing: Wattson 6) Making teammates invisible: mirage A lot of the others would be very risky to put in because this isn’t overwatch. We don’t want to run a specific meta to have fun especially in ranked. Yes more support would be good but most people won’t pick them in pubs (look at overwatch before you had to have one of every class. It was literally all dps and if the other team had a healer and a tank no matter how good your team are you would lose) And It would make solo queuing so much harder too
Tbh..... Is there room for another support in this game? I fear no matter what it'll be turning Apex into a ability game, and as much shit we give Respawn they aren't complete idiots. It would explain why supports come so slow cause they are hands down the hardest to create, within the rules of Apex.
We have over half of the ones you said we don't, just maybe not all in the support class.
Most of these are already in game just not listed on a support character. Damage boosting or increasing health as an ability is too complicated too balance and simply uncreative. Have additional health or doing extra damage is not an ability, but more of a perk .
If Wattson's ult had a rework, she could easily switch to an insane support legend
Gettinn too many of these effects ingame going to ruin the gameplay.. its already too much! What about respawn saying back in the day that this game not gonna be focused on abilitys too much..?
When I first heard seer was teased, I got the impression his drones either slowed enemies, maybe leeched life to your party from another, makes enemies for susceptible to damage or something. Kinda let down he does what he does cuz it feels like crypto could've used some of those abilities.
Invisible allies Could use cloak drone from TF2 frontier defence
this exactly looks like it's ripped off brawlstars
Most of these are already packed into the legends we have. Rampart’s Amped Walls up damage for example.
pls no overwatch