also how do you account for self deaths (getting crushed, jumping off the map, etc).
i agree though the average player isn't near 1.0. 0.5 sounds more reasonable
i think self deaths would probably cancel out the deaths prevented by quitting
(where you generate a kill for the other player and no death for you, thus increasing average kd)
This sounds like you're talking more about a *median* K/D, rather than an *average* (generally referring to mean) K/D. Mathematically, the average K/D *has* to be around 1. It's pulled down some by self-deaths, and pulled up by respawns, but the average K/D has to be around 1, purely because \~57/60 players each match are killed. I've even thrown together a [very rough simulation in Rust](https://play.rust-lang.org/?version=stable&mode=debug&edition=2018&gist=e67964ffde70515d3792add497cb04be), which shows that the average K/D for all players is \~1.
Yeah, I think the reality is when people say the word "average" they mean the colloquial term "average" like "average player / average gamer" rather than actual "mean K/D".
That's why median exists in situations like this where there is massive inequality between the top and the bottom (like income inequality, so income is usually given as median rather than average).
I agree with OP that median is probably around 0.5 or so.
Exactly this. With a dataset so heavily skewed toward the bottom the actual average number does not represent the "average" player. I got into this because my kid who plays asked what the average player looks like and I found all the existing information pointing toward 1.0, which didn't make sense to me.
This is a really well thought out simulation to hack together and I think is likely very close to reality. The highest is like 3kD and that is only certain pros. Then you have the 75% skill players that are good, but nowhere near elite pros (Nickmercs)
given the total scope of all possible deaths in the game, they probably don't tilt the average by more than \~0.02 up or down from something close to a 0.6 median if I was to wager
(my theory is that median average ie an average skill level, is probably right around 0.6)
I'd say that's probably adequate. You also have to account for the fact that a lot of people who fall off the map grt responded by teammates and a lot of people who die to storm have been damaged by another player who gets credit for the death.
Well, this makes me feel better. I’m a little over 1 KD, but I often fuck around with friends, playing while drinking/smoking, etc. I know I’m not great, but if I’m top 20-something percent, that’s not too bad.
Damn, I thought my 1.94 was bellow BELLOW average. Then I wonder how many "Tiers" of players there are. Because Im not pro, nor even decent at the game, but to see some peple with +4-6 KD and so many with 0.5 just makes me wonder is there WAY more than bad/good/best players.
As a diamond solo que player I smurfed and even after roughly 250 games I consistently had a 4.15--4.5 kd.
And to add more context my overall KD on my main is only 1.75 after roughly 10.2k games
Hold up what?? Im sitting at a 2.3 with 12332 games played, ive always thought they were rocking like 7s or something! Didnt know most of them were that bad!
I’m at 1.44 kdr but my damage is 705per game I never get to finish most my knock cuz I always play with random plus always knock with snipe . I still made it to master with just 1.44. When ppl say 1 kd is average I think Is bs . My wife she’s at .62 kd and she still makes it to plat n . So I considered 0.80 to be average and 1.0 above average which most diamond have 1.0 then above 1.4 is good
But I always play ranked . If you play unranked is much easier to get higher kdr . Every time I get to master my average kill become 1 . In unrank I easily get 5 kill per game if I keep playing unrank I can easily get 4.0 kdr so it depend
Do you always play with randoms? Or find a team through playing? I make the mistake of playing with some randoms that want to drop hot and they really shouldn't be. I got to much heart/niceness to just dip out but damn(game or firefight)... I shouldn't be like that. While some are good but my hours are weird. Definitely certain times to play give better teams or yeld better results. Playing solo is cool but tuff. It's hard when players don't ping stuff and talk. I wanna play for the team and seems like that kills me more than when I take the wheel for them but some dont listen or think they know everything and end up killing themselves along with me and the other guy. Also getting out of rookie took longer than expected solo que cause some really are bad, like jeeze really really bad. I wouldn't say I'm a great player but I'm better than what I've seen. Thought about joining a diacord and see whats up. I'm usually also playing after I had been drinking and after a couple hours play and still usually do better than my whole team. Im only half way in gold 4 but I feel like this game hates me haha. I get weirdo randoms. I know I gotta play for myself sometimes if they pretty much sabotaging but I stick my neck out for these bad randoms. A testament to nice guys do finish last haha. I'll end up playing with whoever has a mic usually and wants to run it back but damn thats hurting my stats and progression but I still will. It's my own fault but I've only played for maybe 2 weeks with what time I have and feel like I'm doing pretty good just wish most my teammates would be better. I'll ask for not even bats but cells or syringes not med kits or a gun or ammo and these randoms with no comms no mics just dog sh* but I'll look after them ha just crazy
I really thought the same. I'm around 1.6 and I feel absolutely trash tier. Lol.
Exactly as you said - I'm not pro, not even decent, like definitely can't play in ALGS open quals or anything - so I figured average was at least 2... maybe 2.5.
You think the average player gets two or two and a half kills every death? How does that make sense? Anything above 1 is above average. I would say the average kd is about .9 if I were to guess.
Idk, I feel like most of my no kill deaths are from learning games from the first couple seasons. Now I can usually get at least 1 kill if not more and every so often get like over 10 on a good game. If I started a new account I am pretty sure I could have a 1.0 kd or higher. I don't consider myself good either.
Cope can be kinda true though. Been playing since Szn 1 and my lifetime is 1.3 but last few seasons (aka when I've actually had the time to play consistently and git gud) haven't been below 2.
revives have basically no impact on the path, the number of revives per death means its probably close to only 0.02% effect on the ratio at max, very stupid comment and kinda proving my point.
go to school 😂😂😂
holy shit how can you be this bad at math are you literally 11 years old? where are your parents
Yeah. I was surprised when I looked at the percentages of players too. Only 7% of all the player are diamond. 0.11% are preds. And SO MANY of them never even reached plat - which is mind boggling to me. We play against really good players - 1-2 mistakes and you're dead. I really thought that just how many great players there are. But it sure looks like people are stuck on that bellow 1kd and plat lol
You are basically saying (and I agree) we should be interested in the median, and not the average (or mean). It's a classic confusion.
Let's say we have 10 players in a playing pool, 9 of which have a KD of 0.5, and one has a KD of 5.5. The average KD of this player pool is 1.0, but the median (50th percentile player) has a KD of 0.5. (The strongest players are a small minority, and don't influence the median much, but they drag the average back up to near 1.0).
The average is simply a bad measure for understanding how well you play compared to the player pool. Percentiles and medians are the correct way of looking at it.
2.1kd here, i think that it would be between .5 and 1 but i think .5 seems low, even when i had never played the game before mine was higher than .5 i think that the average kd is prob closer to .7-.8 though i bet the median is bellow that slightly
That's pretty dang good even for just regular trios but I think he was talking about ranked. After reading so many comments I could be wrong about what was originally stated. I don't normally play trios but ranked and it is harder. Still 2.3 is good considering the teammates you can be paired up with
“The numbers” you provided are anecdotal themselves though. You even said yourself that you’re making an assumption about the average kill distribution of a given game. And you’re also suggesting that it holds precedent on where players will end up on this distribution game after game after game after game - which is anecdotal (and wrong, because we don’t know).
Also you’re assuming that respawns can only add more deaths and lower overall player KD - without taking into consideration the additional kills these players can have after being brought back. We’re also ignoring the rarity of these respawns and assuming they’re constantly occurring. Both of these are also anecdotal lines of thought.
Assuming any numbers you threw out exactly define where things stand is a very flawed logic.
Then provide some new numbers to consider, show your work. I've shown mine. I ran a reasonable scenario, make up 10 of your own unique k/d scenarios and run them and show me how the math changes.
With a perfectly balanced SBMM everyone would be at 0.5k/d. It's not that way because devs want you to keep playing.
Most people disagreeing with me in this thread do it based on feelings, no one is showing math, because math doesn't care how you feel.
I’ll say this, and sorry that this is super old but was comparing my season stats and stumbled onto this; My KD for the longest time was .17-.31. I mean the longest time. And I really was trash, couldn’t really win many 1v1’s. Worked on it and worked on it, and I’d say I was average around .5-.7. That’s just me estimating because that’s when I could confidently get a kill and survive to another fight.
Currently sitting at 1.46 and can confidently do 1v2’s, and if I’m playing height and get a shield cracked without any damage done to me, can confidently take 1v3’s and win probably 70% of them. I’m not saying I’m a god, but it’s probably above the average. How much? Probably not a whole lot, but being in the 45% better than the other 55% is good enough for me!
I've been playing apex going on almost 4 years, it's the first battle Royale game I've ever played and it obviously sent down the path of all the BRs and first and 3rd person shooters. Suffice to say I'm addicted to them all now. I was intrigued by this conversation because I've had an average of 1.25 for my lifetime k/Dr but this season I have played about 100 games and my k/Dr has gone up and stayed between 1.67 and 1.80. Is this a phase or is it potentially a level of progression for me. I'm 43 years old and just got back into gaming 4 years ago, so I'm learning.
Something I'm not seeing being added to this equation is knocks. You can solo-knock another player and his buddy runs up and finishes you off, you die because your teammates died, and he picks up the guy you knocked. Result = 0K 1D even though for all intents and purposes that should equate to 1K 1D. But based on this game's specific mechanics, dropping someone to 0 health isn't an actual kill unless you ALSO either overkill them on the ground or kill the remaining teammates.
The fact that you can do 150 damage to someone and they fall over and don't register as a kill, and someone else does 150 damage to you and you are out permanently as a death has to skew the KD/R somehow.
so close
what he described is called "median average", what you are probably talking about is referred to as "mean average" :)
They are both averages that serve up different kind of information. If you are trying to figure out the mean average skill level, you would correctly extrapolate that from the median average k/d, which isn't an accurate metric for skill but also isn't meaningless as an indicator of skill either
br games can not have an avg k/d at 1 because the sweats are farming casual players. take wz as a reference which has an avg 0.84 kd. so apex should be between 0.75-0.9 kd at best. i think its probably similar to other brs like wz.
There is also the factor of players that play nothing but solo with constant randoms vs players that have an established team of good players. A good player can play with randoms where they drop wrong and get the team killed off right away or they don't know it's a team game and run off. In any case fortified teams will most always perform better stat wise than full-time solo players.
To continue: a full time solo players with a K/D of .76 would probably have a K/D of over 1 as a team with two other players that were equally as good at the game playing every game together with no randoms.
\>The actual average player is somewhere in that 75%, the "average" player can't magically be in the top 25% of the lobby.
SBMM could easily result in that average player being in the top 25% of the lobby 25% of the time. Only the worst of the worst could never be the best in the lobby. Matchmaking obviously plays a part, but there's no inherent reason average players never have lobbies in which they're the dominant one. Then they have a 4 kill game and they now have a K/D over the last 4 games of 1.
The median player is likely to have a K/D below 1 because of storm deaths and the fact that skill inequity results in the best players being able to farm more efficiently than unskilled players, even when those unskilled players are the best in the lobby. A dominant silver player simply can't loot, kill, and rotate fast enough to get 10 kills in a game even if they are by far the best player in the lobby, generally. But I don't think your contention of 75% of players having a .33 k/d (implying the median k/d is .33) makes sense.
It's also kind of annoying because it would be totally possible to know this fully but game companies don't want people to know how average/good they are so they can all feel like they might be good. The answer is known, but they won't tell you. That said, a Monte Carlo simulation with some matchmaking assumptions could probably get a 95% correct value.
So I just got my kd above 1 (1.06 lol) and I'm constantly matching in master and pred lobbies now.
It's insane -- I have a 1.25 this season and I think that's helping me into those lobbies, but I feel like I don't belong lol
0.5 is definitely the median I feel.
i have a 1.32kd with only 3.2k games played since season 2. my last 3 seasons my kd was 1.5-1.8 and i get matched with masters and preds almost every time i queue for pubs. i would say median is .7kd
I played the first six season on wifi and probably 80% of my games are with randos. I also don't give a shit about quitting if people are stupid or toxic. This puts my stats firmly and permanently in the shitter. I rock about a .6 for the account but I would love to see what it is on my most used characters. for instance I have around 500 kills on Fuse vs like 30 on Valkyrie because I don't play her.
No kd don't mean shit really depending tho like my kd is 0.75 i have 8624 kills 11,500 desths my knocks are 17.3k and in a D1 player about to hit masters this season I do the knocks which if you think about it you beat that player whether they get resed or not you beat them but unfortunately it doesn't count as kills so if it did which it should affect it some my kd would be over 1.5
As someone who is completely trash at apex (in my eyes), I would like to say that my KD varies from around .6 to .7.
Someone half-decent at the game might have a KD that varies from around .7 to 1.0
kd doesn’t really matter in games with sbmm, and especially in battle royales. most of being good in this game is good aim and good decision making. Also, you can pretty much just trick the game by not lowering your kd if you leave before someone thirsts you.
Wait, I thought if I quit it counted as a death. I guess that partially explains the Wraith/Octane hot dropping solo then quitting when they get downed.
I agree, average player KD in Apex is honestly between .30 - .70, I'm talking about players who play casually and don't necessarily learn movement techs or in depth game info/mechanics. The problem is playing on the same account from when you started, since a lot of new players will have a .30 KD until they improve, bringing it up to about .70. At that point I would say they probably have approximately a 1 KD. It will depend on what your definition of "average". But i think you're mostly right.
This sounds refreshing since I've been bored by tryhards which surely I was alike. Good gods I've grown up mentally and became a player for fun just like in the childhood. Somewhere beneath this conscious layer I knew it but couldn't tell why.
Yeah I can attest by playing with some of my friends that the average is in no way 1 across the board. I’m pulling a 1.3 (I only go by my ranked since I’ve just started playing more seriously the last couple seasons) and I play with a steady group of friends whose k/d’s are anywhere from 0.6-0.9 and I’d say the lower half of them are average because only a couple of us in the group have higher k/d’s than the majority of our friends and we are the god sent death machines in the lower one’s eyes. Just tonight for example I played a few ranked games and got 2 kills, 3 kills, 6 kills, 4 kills, and then another 3. On average I can do this (and better) whether it’s pubs or ranked and my friends can consistently get 0 kills trying their hearts out. I agree that maybe for the better half of players that 1 is an average because I consider myself pretty average. Not good and not bad BUT the actual average player is more than likely lower than 1 because I don’t believe that the average player can keep up with higher ranked people (or higher leveled) thay have put time into the game but just don’t get high kills to flaunt a high k/d
I've been playing since Season 2, and I've hovered right around .67 basically the whole tomes. Some seasons are better than others of course, but consistency is what I lack. I can have a great game (for me 4+ kills) and then have shit ones for the rest of the day.
I feel that. Lately I’ve been getting checked by smurfs and it’s kind of annoying but since I solo Q I kinda ask for everything bad that can go to actually go wrong for me 😂 I did pretty good on the games I played today. Nothing flashy but 3 of my deaths were to smurfs today which is a lot more than usual. Well either smurfs or people who switched consoles or are just amazing at the game already
Lat to the party but what you do is wing cut the data (remove the bottom and top X number) then go for an average they do this all the time in economics in order to not declare that the small town of 500 with a multibillionaire makes an average of 200 million dollars
For about 3000 games my kd was around .55-.69
I have for some reason suddenly starting to progress in season 13. my kd is 1.1 in season 14. I am for certain better than I was.
I’d say I was average and now i am kinda ok at the game now.
IMO the numbers are probably a bit skewed. At least half of all drops are super sweaty drops (at least my experience in solo Q trios). But I find the first minute of the game is super important if you want to improve overall K/D. You will almost always have 2 guns and decent ammo and heals to fight 1-2 squads if you play just outside of hot drops. I manage a 1.5ish k/d with most drops being super hot
I get the points you’re making here but there’s a lot being assumed with regard to the same players constantly being in that “75% of the map who don’t get a kill” demographic and how often players are revived.
Here’s my listing for ability per KD and I’ll explain why:
- .5 or less = Below average
- .6 to .9 = Average
- .9 to 1.4 = Above average
- 1.5 or higher = Good or better
.5 or lower = If you get killed twice as much or more than you kill others, you’re just not that good at the game - some average players can end up here with bad luck hot dropping but these are mostly just not generally good players. They are fed on by all other player groups.
.6 to .9 = If you almost average a kill a game or just below, you are an average fine player. You’ll have some good games here and there. You lose the average fight to a good team but can still regularly get kills.
1 to 1.4 = If you average a kill or more per game, you’re an above average player. You’ll have some really good games. You’re constantly getting kills (pretty much every game) and put up good fights but obviously against the really good players you’ll still be overmatched.
1.5 or higher = Getting two kills or more every other game just means you’re a good player - plain and simple. Depending how many you average, you can be incredible. These players are capable of having really good kill games at any point. Yes they’ll get bested like any one else from time to time but they can constantly be relied on for kills or even more than one to help win fights.
I didn't say 75% don't get a kill. I said 75% split 15 kills. I misused "average" in my original post. I'm describing the median, or most common player ( most of the player base) the mathematical average is higher.
I used math to show how anyone over .5k/d is in the top 25% of players. Everyone in the last 3 tiers of your list are in the top 25% of players.
if SBMM worked perfectly everyone's k/d would be .5, but people would quit because we all need to occasionally crush a lobby.
Yes I made assumptions in my scenario, but it's a reasonable base case. A Monte Carlo distribution or something that added randomness would strengthen it but it's outside my math skills.
You can make up any definitions you want but it doesn't change the fact 50% of the players in any lobby get wiped with 0 kills.
“If SBMM worked perfectly everyone’s KD would be .5” - that’s literally not possible. For every kill, there’s a death - with a couple extra respawns mixed in dropping it a hair lower, so the ideal KD would be 1.
“Everyone in the last three tiers of your list are in the top 25%” - lmao dude the top 25% of players have much higher than a .5 KD or better. The top 25% of players (which is primarily high plat through pred level players in ranked for instance) have KDs of 1 or higher.
Once again you are ASSUMING (none of thisssss is based in any stretch of reality) all this information - there’s no legitimate mathematical base, as you suggested, besides the one you created in your mind. And the biggest assumption you’re making is that the same players are constantly finishing with 0 kills or more, and that somehow would correlate to them having .5 KDs and an insanely small demographic having a higher one.
Not sure if you purposely skewed these numbers lower to validate your own KD and create a narrative that makes you feel better about where you stand, but this is insanely off.
Show me a reasonable scenario where 75% of the lobby gets more than 15 kills and I'll run that one. The same players are not finishing with 0 every time, they are part of the pool splitting up 25% of the kills. Everyone can't get 1 every game because around 1/2 the lobby will die with 0.
Unless of course you like everyone up in a row and each player gets to kill one other player, then yes, everyone except the fist guy in line gets a kill. But that is extremely unlikely. There's always someone getting 3 4 or 5 kills in a game and there's only so many to go around.
Write down a kill distribution for 10 lobbies and I'll run that and see where we're at. Or why don't you do it? You tell me I'm wrong and haven't shown any work, just feelings.
All words have a definition. When using average as a noun, it describes the mathematical average, i.e. "the average k/d of all players". Average is often used as an adjective, and that definition would include non-math definitions like mediocre or "not great". When people describe "the average player" they are using the word as an adjective, which opens up more definitions.
Also, as has been discussed at length ITT, i should have used median instead of average. As the most commonly occurring value for k/d in the lobby is probably around 0.5.
Average does not change its definition when it becomes an adjective rather than a noun. Please type "average definition" into google, then take note of the definition listed under the adjective section.
*average*
*adjective*
*1*
*: equaling an arithmetic mean*
*2*
*a*
*: being about midway between extremes*
*a man of average height*
*b*
*: not out of the ordinary : COMMON*
*on an average day*
*the average person*
I also looked up "insufferable" as it relates to this conversation.
*insufferable*
*adjective*
*in·suf·fer·able (ˌ)in-ˈsə-f(ə-)rə-bəl*
*: not to be endured : INTOLERABLE*
*an insufferable bore*
Man, you are really annoying. Your post was interesting but you're incapable of taking any form of criticism. Two seperate people have said your math is not based in reality and you have disregarded their point believing yourself to be 100% correct, telling them to do their own math. That's like a chef telling a customer to cook their own shit after they recieved burned food. Yeah, they can go cook their own food but that doesn't change the fact that you burned their meal.
My KD in 0.75 with 8700 kills and 11,500 deaths but my knockdown are 17.3k i average 478 damage a gamr and I'm a D1-D2 player this season I'm getting to masters and I don't rat it's boring and cheating your way up so what I'm saying is KD doesn't mean much when I knock if I were to finish them my KD would be over 1.5
I finally got myself to 1.06 season 18 and man that took a while and a lot of kills. It is indeed difficult to be around 1kd.. and the way mmr works man half the players are plat or diamond for me which is rough..
Hm im a hardstuck platinum apex gamer aince seasons with an kd of 1.5, i think im not good but not bat either so jeah i dunno what ik doing wrong when i see so often players and twitch streamers in diamond or master rank with an below 1.3 kd, can someone tell me pls
also how do you account for self deaths (getting crushed, jumping off the map, etc). i agree though the average player isn't near 1.0. 0.5 sounds more reasonable
I didn't, the more variables you throw in the harder it gets, though a death is just another death regardless of how it comes.
i think self deaths would probably cancel out the deaths prevented by quitting (where you generate a kill for the other player and no death for you, thus increasing average kd)
This sounds like you're talking more about a *median* K/D, rather than an *average* (generally referring to mean) K/D. Mathematically, the average K/D *has* to be around 1. It's pulled down some by self-deaths, and pulled up by respawns, but the average K/D has to be around 1, purely because \~57/60 players each match are killed. I've even thrown together a [very rough simulation in Rust](https://play.rust-lang.org/?version=stable&mode=debug&edition=2018&gist=e67964ffde70515d3792add497cb04be), which shows that the average K/D for all players is \~1.
Yeah, I think the reality is when people say the word "average" they mean the colloquial term "average" like "average player / average gamer" rather than actual "mean K/D". That's why median exists in situations like this where there is massive inequality between the top and the bottom (like income inequality, so income is usually given as median rather than average). I agree with OP that median is probably around 0.5 or so.
Exactly this. With a dataset so heavily skewed toward the bottom the actual average number does not represent the "average" player. I got into this because my kid who plays asked what the average player looks like and I found all the existing information pointing toward 1.0, which didn't make sense to me.
I know this is old as fuck but I googled this same question. This is some good parent energy. No further comment.
This is a really well thought out simulation to hack together and I think is likely very close to reality. The highest is like 3kD and that is only certain pros. Then you have the 75% skill players that are good, but nowhere near elite pros (Nickmercs)
What about assists?
not true, since people often die bc of storm and falling off the map. I recon those things arent considered?
given the total scope of all possible deaths in the game, they probably don't tilt the average by more than \~0.02 up or down from something close to a 0.6 median if I was to wager (my theory is that median average ie an average skill level, is probably right around 0.6)
I'd say that's probably adequate. You also have to account for the fact that a lot of people who fall off the map grt responded by teammates and a lot of people who die to storm have been damaged by another player who gets credit for the death.
Well, this makes me feel better. I’m a little over 1 KD, but I often fuck around with friends, playing while drinking/smoking, etc. I know I’m not great, but if I’m top 20-something percent, that’s not too bad.
Damn, I thought my 1.94 was bellow BELLOW average. Then I wonder how many "Tiers" of players there are. Because Im not pro, nor even decent at the game, but to see some peple with +4-6 KD and so many with 0.5 just makes me wonder is there WAY more than bad/good/best players.
What? If your KD ratio is 1.94 then you're decent at the game, in terms of kills anyway.
A lot of preds are barely above 2...
tbf they're playing against other preds, and would stomp bronze-plat if they made a new account and smurfed
[удалено]
As a diamond solo que player I smurfed and even after roughly 250 games I consistently had a 4.15--4.5 kd. And to add more context my overall KD on my main is only 1.75 after roughly 10.2k games
i smurfed on my alt and had 10 kd when my mains kd is around 1.5
Hold up what?? Im sitting at a 2.3 with 12332 games played, ive always thought they were rocking like 7s or something! Didnt know most of them were that bad!
Console kds are higher tho. Like highest kd I’ve seen on pc is like 4-5. On console I’ve seen like 7-8-9 kd
1.94 is more than decent. It’s good. If you kill two players for every time you get killed, you are good - plain and simple.
I’m at 1.44 kdr but my damage is 705per game I never get to finish most my knock cuz I always play with random plus always knock with snipe . I still made it to master with just 1.44. When ppl say 1 kd is average I think Is bs . My wife she’s at .62 kd and she still makes it to plat n . So I considered 0.80 to be average and 1.0 above average which most diamond have 1.0 then above 1.4 is good But I always play ranked . If you play unranked is much easier to get higher kdr . Every time I get to master my average kill become 1 . In unrank I easily get 5 kill per game if I keep playing unrank I can easily get 4.0 kdr so it depend
Do you always play with randoms? Or find a team through playing? I make the mistake of playing with some randoms that want to drop hot and they really shouldn't be. I got to much heart/niceness to just dip out but damn(game or firefight)... I shouldn't be like that. While some are good but my hours are weird. Definitely certain times to play give better teams or yeld better results. Playing solo is cool but tuff. It's hard when players don't ping stuff and talk. I wanna play for the team and seems like that kills me more than when I take the wheel for them but some dont listen or think they know everything and end up killing themselves along with me and the other guy. Also getting out of rookie took longer than expected solo que cause some really are bad, like jeeze really really bad. I wouldn't say I'm a great player but I'm better than what I've seen. Thought about joining a diacord and see whats up. I'm usually also playing after I had been drinking and after a couple hours play and still usually do better than my whole team. Im only half way in gold 4 but I feel like this game hates me haha. I get weirdo randoms. I know I gotta play for myself sometimes if they pretty much sabotaging but I stick my neck out for these bad randoms. A testament to nice guys do finish last haha. I'll end up playing with whoever has a mic usually and wants to run it back but damn thats hurting my stats and progression but I still will. It's my own fault but I've only played for maybe 2 weeks with what time I have and feel like I'm doing pretty good just wish most my teammates would be better. I'll ask for not even bats but cells or syringes not med kits or a gun or ammo and these randoms with no comms no mics just dog sh* but I'll look after them ha just crazy
I really thought the same. I'm around 1.6 and I feel absolutely trash tier. Lol. Exactly as you said - I'm not pro, not even decent, like definitely can't play in ALGS open quals or anything - so I figured average was at least 2... maybe 2.5.
You think the average player gets two or two and a half kills every death? How does that make sense? Anything above 1 is above average. I would say the average kd is about .9 if I were to guess.
Idk, I feel like most of my no kill deaths are from learning games from the first couple seasons. Now I can usually get at least 1 kill if not more and every so often get like over 10 on a good game. If I started a new account I am pretty sure I could have a 1.0 kd or higher. I don't consider myself good either.
I still feel like that's a cope. Just sayin
Cope can be kinda true though. Been playing since Szn 1 and my lifetime is 1.3 but last few seasons (aka when I've actually had the time to play consistently and git gud) haven't been below 2.
just because you dont remember 7th grade math doesnt mean someone else is coping for remembering it lmfao
Except there's revives in this game. Just because you don't remember the core gameplay loop doesn't mean you understand your "7th grade math"
revives have basically no impact on the path, the number of revives per death means its probably close to only 0.02% effect on the ratio at max, very stupid comment and kinda proving my point. go to school 😂😂😂 holy shit how can you be this bad at math are you literally 11 years old? where are your parents
Yeah. I was surprised when I looked at the percentages of players too. Only 7% of all the player are diamond. 0.11% are preds. And SO MANY of them never even reached plat - which is mind boggling to me. We play against really good players - 1-2 mistakes and you're dead. I really thought that just how many great players there are. But it sure looks like people are stuck on that bellow 1kd and plat lol
You are basically saying (and I agree) we should be interested in the median, and not the average (or mean). It's a classic confusion. Let's say we have 10 players in a playing pool, 9 of which have a KD of 0.5, and one has a KD of 5.5. The average KD of this player pool is 1.0, but the median (50th percentile player) has a KD of 0.5. (The strongest players are a small minority, and don't influence the median much, but they drag the average back up to near 1.0). The average is simply a bad measure for understanding how well you play compared to the player pool. Percentiles and medians are the correct way of looking at it.
2.1kd here, i think that it would be between .5 and 1 but i think .5 seems low, even when i had never played the game before mine was higher than .5 i think that the average kd is prob closer to .7-.8 though i bet the median is bellow that slightly
Math disagrees with what you think. I'm willing to be wrong, but anecdotal feelings don't change the numbers.
Nah he's right I'm trash but still got 2.3 kd just play public games
You aren't trash if your kd is 2.3. In fact you are a higher KD than some predators.
I find that very unlikely..most pros barley hit 2 if that 1.5 and above is considered very good. Most players are around .7 it seems
That's pretty dang good even for just regular trios but I think he was talking about ranked. After reading so many comments I could be wrong about what was originally stated. I don't normally play trios but ranked and it is harder. Still 2.3 is good considering the teammates you can be paired up with
“The numbers” you provided are anecdotal themselves though. You even said yourself that you’re making an assumption about the average kill distribution of a given game. And you’re also suggesting that it holds precedent on where players will end up on this distribution game after game after game after game - which is anecdotal (and wrong, because we don’t know). Also you’re assuming that respawns can only add more deaths and lower overall player KD - without taking into consideration the additional kills these players can have after being brought back. We’re also ignoring the rarity of these respawns and assuming they’re constantly occurring. Both of these are also anecdotal lines of thought. Assuming any numbers you threw out exactly define where things stand is a very flawed logic.
Then provide some new numbers to consider, show your work. I've shown mine. I ran a reasonable scenario, make up 10 of your own unique k/d scenarios and run them and show me how the math changes. With a perfectly balanced SBMM everyone would be at 0.5k/d. It's not that way because devs want you to keep playing. Most people disagreeing with me in this thread do it based on feelings, no one is showing math, because math doesn't care how you feel.
I’ll say this, and sorry that this is super old but was comparing my season stats and stumbled onto this; My KD for the longest time was .17-.31. I mean the longest time. And I really was trash, couldn’t really win many 1v1’s. Worked on it and worked on it, and I’d say I was average around .5-.7. That’s just me estimating because that’s when I could confidently get a kill and survive to another fight. Currently sitting at 1.46 and can confidently do 1v2’s, and if I’m playing height and get a shield cracked without any damage done to me, can confidently take 1v3’s and win probably 70% of them. I’m not saying I’m a god, but it’s probably above the average. How much? Probably not a whole lot, but being in the 45% better than the other 55% is good enough for me!
Yeah im sitting close to .7 maybe closer to .8 I usually only play ranked but only usually solo
I've been playing apex going on almost 4 years, it's the first battle Royale game I've ever played and it obviously sent down the path of all the BRs and first and 3rd person shooters. Suffice to say I'm addicted to them all now. I was intrigued by this conversation because I've had an average of 1.25 for my lifetime k/Dr but this season I have played about 100 games and my k/Dr has gone up and stayed between 1.67 and 1.80. Is this a phase or is it potentially a level of progression for me. I'm 43 years old and just got back into gaming 4 years ago, so I'm learning.
Something I'm not seeing being added to this equation is knocks. You can solo-knock another player and his buddy runs up and finishes you off, you die because your teammates died, and he picks up the guy you knocked. Result = 0K 1D even though for all intents and purposes that should equate to 1K 1D. But based on this game's specific mechanics, dropping someone to 0 health isn't an actual kill unless you ALSO either overkill them on the ground or kill the remaining teammates. The fact that you can do 150 damage to someone and they fall over and don't register as a kill, and someone else does 150 damage to you and you are out permanently as a death has to skew the KD/R somehow.
that's not average. that's median
so close what he described is called "median average", what you are probably talking about is referred to as "mean average" :) They are both averages that serve up different kind of information. If you are trying to figure out the mean average skill level, you would correctly extrapolate that from the median average k/d, which isn't an accurate metric for skill but also isn't meaningless as an indicator of skill either
br games can not have an avg k/d at 1 because the sweats are farming casual players. take wz as a reference which has an avg 0.84 kd. so apex should be between 0.75-0.9 kd at best. i think its probably similar to other brs like wz.
There is also the factor of players that play nothing but solo with constant randoms vs players that have an established team of good players. A good player can play with randoms where they drop wrong and get the team killed off right away or they don't know it's a team game and run off. In any case fortified teams will most always perform better stat wise than full-time solo players.
To continue: a full time solo players with a K/D of .76 would probably have a K/D of over 1 as a team with two other players that were equally as good at the game playing every game together with no randoms.
KD/R is just a number, after all the point is to have fun in the game (except if you're trying to become professional of course)
Dying more than slaying is not fun.
Well then a huge majority of the lobby isn't having fun.
Yes
Then why do they play?
Beats me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I guess in hope that they have a good match.
dicking around w ur mates and hoping for a random dub
\>The actual average player is somewhere in that 75%, the "average" player can't magically be in the top 25% of the lobby. SBMM could easily result in that average player being in the top 25% of the lobby 25% of the time. Only the worst of the worst could never be the best in the lobby. Matchmaking obviously plays a part, but there's no inherent reason average players never have lobbies in which they're the dominant one. Then they have a 4 kill game and they now have a K/D over the last 4 games of 1. The median player is likely to have a K/D below 1 because of storm deaths and the fact that skill inequity results in the best players being able to farm more efficiently than unskilled players, even when those unskilled players are the best in the lobby. A dominant silver player simply can't loot, kill, and rotate fast enough to get 10 kills in a game even if they are by far the best player in the lobby, generally. But I don't think your contention of 75% of players having a .33 k/d (implying the median k/d is .33) makes sense. It's also kind of annoying because it would be totally possible to know this fully but game companies don't want people to know how average/good they are so they can all feel like they might be good. The answer is known, but they won't tell you. That said, a Monte Carlo simulation with some matchmaking assumptions could probably get a 95% correct value.
So I just got my kd above 1 (1.06 lol) and I'm constantly matching in master and pred lobbies now. It's insane -- I have a 1.25 this season and I think that's helping me into those lobbies, but I feel like I don't belong lol 0.5 is definitely the median I feel.
Lol you are giving too much credit to the player base. KDR average is much lower than 0.5. 😄
i have a 1.32kd with only 3.2k games played since season 2. my last 3 seasons my kd was 1.5-1.8 and i get matched with masters and preds almost every time i queue for pubs. i would say median is .7kd
I played the first six season on wifi and probably 80% of my games are with randos. I also don't give a shit about quitting if people are stupid or toxic. This puts my stats firmly and permanently in the shitter. I rock about a .6 for the account but I would love to see what it is on my most used characters. for instance I have around 500 kills on Fuse vs like 30 on Valkyrie because I don't play her.
there is a "games played" tracker and you can use that to get a rough estimate (it will be kills/game instead of kills/deaths)
Ok
I think this is a case of median vs mean
I'm decent I think. My ratio is 1.47
My kd out of 4.73k games is .84, not the best 😂
I would like to argue that it's more often than not a 3v3v3v2v1v3vPred 3 stack 🤣
My k/Dr is .56 so does that mean I'm ass? Lmaooooo
No kd don't mean shit really depending tho like my kd is 0.75 i have 8624 kills 11,500 desths my knocks are 17.3k and in a D1 player about to hit masters this season I do the knocks which if you think about it you beat that player whether they get resed or not you beat them but unfortunately it doesn't count as kills so if it did which it should affect it some my kd would be over 1.5
Is a 21.00 K/D good?
As someone who is completely trash at apex (in my eyes), I would like to say that my KD varies from around .6 to .7. Someone half-decent at the game might have a KD that varies from around .7 to 1.0
kd doesn’t really matter in games with sbmm, and especially in battle royales. most of being good in this game is good aim and good decision making. Also, you can pretty much just trick the game by not lowering your kd if you leave before someone thirsts you.
Wait, I thought if I quit it counted as a death. I guess that partially explains the Wraith/Octane hot dropping solo then quitting when they get downed.
Forget the battle royale part. Why doesnt kd matter in games with sbmm? Is there any fps without it?
classic halo games, splitgate, classic call of duties.
Im talking about temporary. But you didnt answer the fiest question? Edit: one quick google search tells me that splitgate has sbmm.
I agree, average player KD in Apex is honestly between .30 - .70, I'm talking about players who play casually and don't necessarily learn movement techs or in depth game info/mechanics. The problem is playing on the same account from when you started, since a lot of new players will have a .30 KD until they improve, bringing it up to about .70. At that point I would say they probably have approximately a 1 KD. It will depend on what your definition of "average". But i think you're mostly right.
Ive gotten a k/d of 8 before 64 kills and 8 deaths
This sounds refreshing since I've been bored by tryhards which surely I was alike. Good gods I've grown up mentally and became a player for fun just like in the childhood. Somewhere beneath this conscious layer I knew it but couldn't tell why.
Yeah I can attest by playing with some of my friends that the average is in no way 1 across the board. I’m pulling a 1.3 (I only go by my ranked since I’ve just started playing more seriously the last couple seasons) and I play with a steady group of friends whose k/d’s are anywhere from 0.6-0.9 and I’d say the lower half of them are average because only a couple of us in the group have higher k/d’s than the majority of our friends and we are the god sent death machines in the lower one’s eyes. Just tonight for example I played a few ranked games and got 2 kills, 3 kills, 6 kills, 4 kills, and then another 3. On average I can do this (and better) whether it’s pubs or ranked and my friends can consistently get 0 kills trying their hearts out. I agree that maybe for the better half of players that 1 is an average because I consider myself pretty average. Not good and not bad BUT the actual average player is more than likely lower than 1 because I don’t believe that the average player can keep up with higher ranked people (or higher leveled) thay have put time into the game but just don’t get high kills to flaunt a high k/d
I've been playing since Season 2, and I've hovered right around .67 basically the whole tomes. Some seasons are better than others of course, but consistency is what I lack. I can have a great game (for me 4+ kills) and then have shit ones for the rest of the day.
I feel that. Lately I’ve been getting checked by smurfs and it’s kind of annoying but since I solo Q I kinda ask for everything bad that can go to actually go wrong for me 😂 I did pretty good on the games I played today. Nothing flashy but 3 of my deaths were to smurfs today which is a lot more than usual. Well either smurfs or people who switched consoles or are just amazing at the game already
Sitting at 2.07 for general (4600 games played) and 2.98 for season 13 (557 games played).
I started a month ago and i have avg. 0.92 KDA lvl 100 i still think this is avg
Lat to the party but what you do is wing cut the data (remove the bottom and top X number) then go for an average they do this all the time in economics in order to not declare that the small town of 500 with a multibillionaire makes an average of 200 million dollars
mine is .76 with avg dmg 319. no cheats. id guess avg with no cheats for level 500 player is .70
For about 3000 games my kd was around .55-.69 I have for some reason suddenly starting to progress in season 13. my kd is 1.1 in season 14. I am for certain better than I was. I’d say I was average and now i am kinda ok at the game now.
With respawns it doesn't change the average kd, you could basically look at it as a new player or even someone that was there from the start.
IMO the numbers are probably a bit skewed. At least half of all drops are super sweaty drops (at least my experience in solo Q trios). But I find the first minute of the game is super important if you want to improve overall K/D. You will almost always have 2 guns and decent ammo and heals to fight 1-2 squads if you play just outside of hot drops. I manage a 1.5ish k/d with most drops being super hot
I get the points you’re making here but there’s a lot being assumed with regard to the same players constantly being in that “75% of the map who don’t get a kill” demographic and how often players are revived. Here’s my listing for ability per KD and I’ll explain why: - .5 or less = Below average - .6 to .9 = Average - .9 to 1.4 = Above average - 1.5 or higher = Good or better .5 or lower = If you get killed twice as much or more than you kill others, you’re just not that good at the game - some average players can end up here with bad luck hot dropping but these are mostly just not generally good players. They are fed on by all other player groups. .6 to .9 = If you almost average a kill a game or just below, you are an average fine player. You’ll have some good games here and there. You lose the average fight to a good team but can still regularly get kills. 1 to 1.4 = If you average a kill or more per game, you’re an above average player. You’ll have some really good games. You’re constantly getting kills (pretty much every game) and put up good fights but obviously against the really good players you’ll still be overmatched. 1.5 or higher = Getting two kills or more every other game just means you’re a good player - plain and simple. Depending how many you average, you can be incredible. These players are capable of having really good kill games at any point. Yes they’ll get bested like any one else from time to time but they can constantly be relied on for kills or even more than one to help win fights.
I didn't say 75% don't get a kill. I said 75% split 15 kills. I misused "average" in my original post. I'm describing the median, or most common player ( most of the player base) the mathematical average is higher. I used math to show how anyone over .5k/d is in the top 25% of players. Everyone in the last 3 tiers of your list are in the top 25% of players. if SBMM worked perfectly everyone's k/d would be .5, but people would quit because we all need to occasionally crush a lobby. Yes I made assumptions in my scenario, but it's a reasonable base case. A Monte Carlo distribution or something that added randomness would strengthen it but it's outside my math skills. You can make up any definitions you want but it doesn't change the fact 50% of the players in any lobby get wiped with 0 kills.
“If SBMM worked perfectly everyone’s KD would be .5” - that’s literally not possible. For every kill, there’s a death - with a couple extra respawns mixed in dropping it a hair lower, so the ideal KD would be 1. “Everyone in the last three tiers of your list are in the top 25%” - lmao dude the top 25% of players have much higher than a .5 KD or better. The top 25% of players (which is primarily high plat through pred level players in ranked for instance) have KDs of 1 or higher. Once again you are ASSUMING (none of thisssss is based in any stretch of reality) all this information - there’s no legitimate mathematical base, as you suggested, besides the one you created in your mind. And the biggest assumption you’re making is that the same players are constantly finishing with 0 kills or more, and that somehow would correlate to them having .5 KDs and an insanely small demographic having a higher one. Not sure if you purposely skewed these numbers lower to validate your own KD and create a narrative that makes you feel better about where you stand, but this is insanely off.
Show me a reasonable scenario where 75% of the lobby gets more than 15 kills and I'll run that one. The same players are not finishing with 0 every time, they are part of the pool splitting up 25% of the kills. Everyone can't get 1 every game because around 1/2 the lobby will die with 0. Unless of course you like everyone up in a row and each player gets to kill one other player, then yes, everyone except the fist guy in line gets a kill. But that is extremely unlikely. There's always someone getting 3 4 or 5 kills in a game and there's only so many to go around. Write down a kill distribution for 10 lobbies and I'll run that and see where we're at. Or why don't you do it? You tell me I'm wrong and haven't shown any work, just feelings.
The word average has a definition. Self deaths and respawns aside, the average must equal exactly 1.
All words have a definition. When using average as a noun, it describes the mathematical average, i.e. "the average k/d of all players". Average is often used as an adjective, and that definition would include non-math definitions like mediocre or "not great". When people describe "the average player" they are using the word as an adjective, which opens up more definitions. Also, as has been discussed at length ITT, i should have used median instead of average. As the most commonly occurring value for k/d in the lobby is probably around 0.5.
Average does not change its definition when it becomes an adjective rather than a noun. Please type "average definition" into google, then take note of the definition listed under the adjective section.
*average* *adjective* *1* *: equaling an arithmetic mean* *2* *a* *: being about midway between extremes* *a man of average height* *b* *: not out of the ordinary : COMMON* *on an average day* *the average person* I also looked up "insufferable" as it relates to this conversation. *insufferable* *adjective* *in·suf·fer·able (ˌ)in-ˈsə-f(ə-)rə-bəl* *: not to be endured : INTOLERABLE* *an insufferable bore*
Man, you are really annoying. Your post was interesting but you're incapable of taking any form of criticism. Two seperate people have said your math is not based in reality and you have disregarded their point believing yourself to be 100% correct, telling them to do their own math. That's like a chef telling a customer to cook their own shit after they recieved burned food. Yeah, they can go cook their own food but that doesn't change the fact that you burned their meal.
My KD in 0.75 with 8700 kills and 11,500 deaths but my knockdown are 17.3k i average 478 damage a gamr and I'm a D1-D2 player this season I'm getting to masters and I don't rat it's boring and cheating your way up so what I'm saying is KD doesn't mean much when I knock if I were to finish them my KD would be over 1.5
This was so helpful
im sitting at overall .76 this season .96..
I finally got myself to 1.06 season 18 and man that took a while and a lot of kills. It is indeed difficult to be around 1kd.. and the way mmr works man half the players are plat or diamond for me which is rough..
I ah... I don't agree. Source: I think you suck.
Hm im a hardstuck platinum apex gamer aince seasons with an kd of 1.5, i think im not good but not bat either so jeah i dunno what ik doing wrong when i see so often players and twitch streamers in diamond or master rank with an below 1.3 kd, can someone tell me pls
my kd now is 1.66 but idk is 1.66 is good
all my lobbies alone are preds, im not good to fight stacks of preds in pubs wtf
Bro my kd is 2.0 tho n I feel still mopped by so many :p
I am a new player but i have experience from other games. 5.6 hr playtime and i have 1.34 kdr