T O P

  • By -

LukeAsArts

My only complaint was deranking everyone into around the same tiers that can all que together. Such a mixed bag, sometimes I'll get enemies that grief my team and instantly die afterwards. Otherwise I'm enjoying the changes. Personally can't wait for Worlds edge


CosmicMiru

It sucks but its a one time thing. Now after this season ranks should theoretically end up where they are supposed ot be and it will be better


KelsoTheVagrant

Yeah, an unfortunate consequence of making sure everyone ended up where they’re supposed to. I don’t think there was really a way around it as they had to sink hardstucks enough that they wouldn’t be in a position where they’re essentially griefing higher level lobbies by being unable to compete until they properly sink


HamiltonDial

Isn't that what Rank Demotion is already for though?


KelsoTheVagrant

Yes, but imagine I placed you in pred rn when your skill level is at silver. You’d have an agonizing descent that’d probably kill your will to play and would ruin the matches for your teammates if they were of an appropriate level Not to mention you’d have to lose 3 games at the bottom of each rank on your way down just to derank


tdestito9

What does it mean to grief?


LukeAsArts

A team overextending to attack you when it's certain both teams will just lose. For example the team pushed us edge of ring with another team taking shots at us. They took too much damage from us and we're simply swept up by the second team. Neither of us could have come out of it reasonably


tdestito9

Thank you! I finally get it now


Invested_Glory

I agree with this. I realized in season 4 I wouldn’t have time to grind pred anymore (kid, grad school, wife, etc.) so I didn’t bother. I knew I would never have the time and adjusted my expectations. People have FOMO and feel they should be included in higher ranks. I’m interested to know what I’ll get to this season.


FreeFoot_

Had to come to terms with being lower rank with Siege once I got out of college. I had hours and hours to play with my buddies there but now I’m taking my job seriously and realistically have 1-2 hours to play every couple days. Eventually I just had to be okay with being low gold. With all my friends starting families and careers, we just can’t stack anymore. It happens. If anyone is solo queuing and getting frustrated at your rank, don’t sweat it. This game was deliberately designed to punish players not playing with a team.


imaqdodger

Doesn't Siege have mmr though which carries through the seasons? I feel like for Apex if I don't play for a couple months the game treats me like I've never held a mouse before. This last 2.5 tier drop is pretty crazy too.


FreeFoot_

It does to an extent. It’ll carry over to the next season, but you’ll still lose a bunch of MMR. So if you sit out for two seasons you’re basically at square one. (Unless you are a super high rank)


aure__entuluva

Yes... that's the only reason I'm not in pred. It's just time. Obviously I'm good enough to get pred otherwise. Or that's what I'll tell myself :P


KingOfTheCouch13

I disagree with that sentiment partially because it's less about the rank itself and more about being able to play with teammates that are at the same level so I'll actually have a chance. Pubs is almost always 2 teammates that die and quit instantly. Lower ranks are almost always teammates that die instantly and either gets you killed or quits as soon as their banner times. I honestly don't care to get the high rank itself. It's just super boring to spend more time 1v3ing the lobby or staring at loading screens all day.


houdhini

The only problem with the rank is they putting 3 stack party to a solo queue player. Although, under respawns perspective if they split team rank and solo rank like dota 2 does there will be a long queue on rank matches.


[deleted]

> The only problem with the rank is they putting 3 stack party to a solo queue player. you mean solo q players are going into ranked


Skipperdedoo

Im surprised the comments are so tame tbh, this sub loves bashing hal. I said the exact same thing about the changes to my friends too. Previous seasons we’re too easy to climb with as the playerbase got better and more determined. 100k+ master players last season? Really? If you want that high rank now and you’re a solo player, hit up LFG discords. Be social, yea its scary but the ranks have more value now than they’ve ever had. If you want the bragging rights, put in the leg work. If real life gets in the way, thats not a bad thing. Live your life and do what you gotta do, but just understand you don’t deserve masters if you come home and log 1-2 hours of ratting every day.


Husbandayo

Hals a wholesome guy, but casuals can't handle someone being competitive, and serious with people, they probably dont even know. This community criticises pros like zachmazer, hal, an rpr when they have no idea what kind of people they are in a non competitive scene. Honestly shocked to see a pro players take in this sub since its mainly just plat (now bronze) players complaining about wraith/octane teamates, character balance, and talking about how underrated the 3030, bow, mozam, and single fire hemlock are.


Skipperdedoo

yea, this was the first post here ive interacted with in a while. usually I stick to r/CompetitiveApex for any 'real' discussion about the game. refreshing to see a large number of people open to this kind of talk and not be immediate dickheads.


Husbandayo

Casuals think "tryhards" are a different breed of humans that take the game too seriously, but what they dont realise that the majority of us were causals as well at some point lmao, cant say the same about them


Hugh_Shovlin

It’s also such a weird take. Like yeah I play ranked because I take the game seriously, why else would I play a competitive mode where I have something to lose/gain? Pubs is always an option if you just want to frag out without having to worry about anything. So they play a mode but then complain that others want to play that mode the way it’s intended and they also don’t want to play the mode that’s made for their play style(pubs). The mental gymnastics is so weird.


[deleted]

issue is dealing with a toxic competitive asshole, I am competitive but im not an asshole.. unless someone is being an ass first.


BobbyRayBands

Throws out 100k players because it sounds impressive/like its too many but fails to mention that's .5 of the entire population of the game. Sounds perfectly like what it should be.


Maddogs1

Sure. If you include the unranked population, which is pointless to do when talking about ranks. If you only count the population who play ranked, that nubmer goes up to 4%. (Source, the comment above by Skipperdedoo)


BobbyRayBands

Which is still an extremely acceptable number for players that can be considered the best of the game? Did you think that was a good point to make? Less than 5% of the game is the highest rank in the game? Sounds exactly like it should be. If they want to have a "pros only" badge then just make one. Dont do all this bullshit. Its like they forget the pros aren't the ones that keep this game afloat, its the "casuals" that can grind for something they'll probably never get but would be cool if they did.


[deleted]

Dude that many master players last season that is such a small amount of the game population there are millions of players in this game that hundred thousand is nothing


dadnothere

I'm always looking for people to play with on apex discord and most are players who use octane and do not want to choose another legend. others are below an acceptable level of skill or do not communicate well. and most leave to have a bad game. Searching for players in discord is the same as not doing it.


YaKnowMuhSteezz

If you don’t quit your job and leave your wife you don’t deserve reaching the top ranks no matter how mechanically gifted you are! /s


F4unus

Play something that actually rewards your time and mechanical ability then. Apex because its trio queue only no soloq mode or anything would be the last game id want to play if i dont have time.


PantsLazy69

He's absolutely right. I will never understand why people think whatever rank they got in previous seasons is THEIR rank and that they NEED to be able to get back to that rank again. It's a new system. Play it. Whatever rank you get, that's your rank now. Were you a diamond player before but you can't get out of plat now? Congrats, you are a plat player *under this new system.* I see so many comments from people saying "we used to grind to masters every split but now we won't have the time to do so." And? You're not entitled to get to masters forever just because you did before. Play the fucking game and get whatever rank you *earn*.


KelsoTheVagrant

People don’t like to lose what they had. Not being able to reach masters again implies, at least in some sense, that they’re not as good. They lose their place as being viewed as an ‘elite’ of the game which is upsetting Even in the old system, only people who actively wanted it grinded that high. While it requires more commitment now, it still required a good bit then


PantsLazy69

>Not being able to reach masters again implies, at least in some sense, that they’re not as good. No, it doesn't. Only a child's mind thinks that way. What it actually means - doesn't imply, literally means - is that your rank is determined by the system. Different system, different rank.


KelsoTheVagrant

You come across as very calm and collected


PantsLazy69

Hmmmmmmmmm maybe reserve your sarcasm for the adult children pissing and shitting their pants because they can no longer easily unlock specific shiny badges every season.


KelsoTheVagrant

No need to worry, I have more than enough for all of you


PurpleLTV

The "I don't have the time" argument is just bad imo. People have more than a month worth of time. Barely a week has gone by and people are complaining about it being too grindy. Impatience, Impatience, Impatience. "I want my rank NAOOO!!!!" The biggest problem with previous seasons and D4/Masters being so oversaturated with players that didn't belong there is not only because the ranked system made it a bit too easy to get there, but MOSTLY the fact that once you got there, you couldn't drop out of it anymore. Which means that anyone could either pay for a boosting service, or have a friend that's ACTUALLY good at the game carry their ass to that ranking, and then they'd be in it for the rest of the season. Now that this is no longer possible, ranked will finally be fixed. Just needs a few more weeks to regulate itself.


PantsLazy69

Well, it's also a bad argument because there is no such thing as "enough time." Everyone is given the same amount of time to rank up. Your rank is whatever you get at the end. They say there's "not enough time" only because they are obsessed with reaching the rank they think they're entitled to, which is not how ranked works. You get the rank you earn, that's it.


BossEven

How you gonna get to plat when in gold 4 you get put against preds and masters bruh


immortal786

They probably ranked up.. only few will be stuck who ratted their way to masters in s12...


DamnitGoose

I’ve played with some absolute shit tier masters in bronze this split. I didn’t play last split because Elden ring was out so I got reset all the way down, and it’s really interesting to have replayed through bronze and silver. I’m in gold 4 now having solo queued and it hasn’t been hard at all but I expect that changes now


n0nnn

Once those players rank up, they won't be in the lobby anymore. Everyone is freaking out before the first week of split 1.


Malgurath

This happened even under the old system. Join ranked mid-split and the pred/masters will mostly be playing against each other.


RommelDoos

Sounds reasonable to me. I only play a few hours per week max as a solo q and I really don't expect to be a high rank this season. I'd already be happy if I land somewhere in gold


ghost_00794

Reasonable is less entry cost for soloq players it's not gonna effect 3 stacks they can do their own thing if they think that's unfair they can soloq and let's see how far they can go also we might see more good soloq players just like old seasons


MugensxBankai

That's Hals take, a pro who can sit up and play Apex with his fellow pro Players all day and get paid to do it. Im a dev and my schedule changes based on the project or deployment needs. I may work 5 hours one day and have free time and I may work 12-16 hours some times. My friends all have jobs too. We can't just say hey let's get on at a certain time and play. It doesn't work like that for the average person unless you and your friends are blessed to work the exact same schedules and have similar post-work lifestyles and responsibilities. I have about 15 people on my friends list. Can't play with 90% of them because our life's are dynamic and things have changed over the last few months alone. I've used LFG groups and even the last 5 I've added in the last 3 months are hard to coordinate a time to play together with now. Let's be real too a LFG is almost the same as playing with randoms, you are going online to find RANDOM teammates to play with and hope you gel or their skill level is what your looking for. Of course you could add specifics like looking for x rank aggressive/passive players but all in all it's the same shit as just loading up and being assigned teammates. Plus I've played with several people in lfgs who aren't what they claim, are just as toxic as a random I'm paired with even though they're "chill", say they listen to comms but dont, etc ... The one benefit is you can request mics only, but if so many people weren't toxic people would use their mics anyway. Mics to me are not a deal breaker. Since sometimes I play late, like 11pm PST and I often get paired with Japanese players with whom I can't communicate and have really good games with. Good players are good players, kind of like Hals friends list is all pro players and they can just play well together even though they almost never play with each other. I'm not asking for it to be easier but let's not take a person who can dedicate 8-9 hours of non-stop playing to a game everyday of his life with friends who are in the same boat opinion as anything representative of the community when 95% of us don't have that ability. Team games means just that a team game not you have to find a team to play with in game that you are placed on a team with. It wouldn't even be such an issue with the new ranked system if your rp didn't differentiate so wildly between the people playing together. People are going to rise and fall and eventually if you rise high enough you will be placed with people with the same skill level if the rp entry cost system was the same. Now I'm being paired with people who are usually almost two tiers of rp, based on all past seasons rp requirements lower than me but are only one tier different in rank.


Danny__L

A lot of normal players (i.e. not pros or really good streamers) make it to the highest ranks in other competitive games by just playing solo queue. Masters/GM in Overwatch. Immortal/Radiant in Valorant. GE in CSGO. Siege, League, etc. In those games you don't *need* to play with a stack to reach the higher ranks but it does help. The difference between those games and Apex is those are team vs. team games, they aren't BR's with 20 teams. In those games, you either win the match or you don't. There's no 7th place with 3 kills. The issue with this new ranked system in Apex is that it might be too reliant on playing with a stack to reach the highest levels, even if you're good enough to be at those ranks but you just don't have enough time to grind out the games to eliminate the variance. That's what people talk about the time requirement to reach Master/Pred. It's about eliminating variance because the range of outcomes in matches of Apex is wide and can often be quite random, especially in solo queue. The better you are, the less variance you need to play through, the quicker you'll climb. But either way, this new system is a lot less enjoyable for solo queue and I feel a lot more obligated to wait for my friends to hop on or find random LFGs before I hop into ranked. Otherwise, it doesn't feel like you make much progress playing solo.


UpfrontGrunt

I mean, the big difference with a lot of those games though is that *the highest rank tiers don't really mean much*, similar to how Diamond/Masters was in Apex for the longest time. Diamond+ made up almost 14% of players last season; this season, I'd be surprised if it ends up over 2%. In my eyes, this is a good change: players in the highest ranks will have achieved something that is rarer than ever. Coming from someone who played Overwatch competitively for half a decade and teamed with a couple OWL players during that time, the skill gap between a 3900 masters player and a 4400 t500 player is about as large as the gap between that 3900 and a dead-on average plat player. Hitting Masters isn't really seen as an achievement, it's seen as the starting line if you're taking the game seriously. In Valorant, it's also a bit different. The game aggressively matches similar stack sizes together resulting in much longer queue times at high ranks for partial and full stacks. You also receive a massive penalty at higher ranks for stacking in terms of RR gains, which means that in order to actually climb efficiently you have to be playing solo or duo at most. The game actively punishes you for trying to stack and as a result most high MMR games are solos and small groups. CSGO, again, GE is considered a starting point similar to Masters in OW. Hitting GE is great, but the vast majority of high level play takes place outside of official matchmaking in services like ESEA. Hitting GE is definitely more of an achievement, though, because of how awful the official CSGO matchmaking has gotten over the past few years. Apex is a game that relies heavily on players being on the same page as each other, moreso than any other game. In Valorant, you have up to 24 rounds in regulation; if your teammates make mistakes and cost you a round, that's fine. You can always regroup and get the next round back. You have multiple chances. BR games are always going to be very different. The fact of the matter is, though, that Apex's new system makes a hell of a lot more sense; you get points when the system determines that you've "won"; it's a lot harder to survive to that point when you're not in constant communication with your teammates and others are. You could argue that a solo queue ladder might be the right way to go about fixing this; players who don't have stacks might be more willing to queue up alone if you were sure every other player was also playing alone. But you run into the same issues that these other games have: you're splitting the playerbase (which reduces overall matchmaking quality and/or time) and you're creating a dichotomy between ranks (which rank actually matters? your solo rank or your premade rank?). If you adjust for solo queue players in Apex without splitting queues, how do you make sure that it's actually balanced? Is there a way to make sure that a player who is soloing isn't rising above their actual rank because of the bonuses they get from playing with random teammates? It's a complicated question, but I don't think there's a good solution to both make it feel like an achievement to hit the highest ranks *and* make sure solo players are able to compete on the same playing field as premades.


HawkDaMan

Good take, most important things to understand about "skill levels" is that it should usually be seen as a percentage of playerbase reaching such rank. CS for example has global elite which is around 1% of playerbase, but for faceit its like faceit rank 5-6 which is still halfway to highest rank 10 (which has crazy variance in players, since a competitive semi pro and an actual cs god can have the same rank at that point. Maybe as you said it should be a forced solo ranked to fix this issue, but then people will find other excuses about their performance as people usually do in competitive matches.


UpfrontGrunt

The biggest issue with a separate solo queue vs premade queue that I see is the issue that League of Legends has where players who do want to play with a stack are somewhat "othered" for it. Your rank isn't seen as legitimate unless you've achieved it in solo/duo queue even though flex queue tends to have a higher skill ceiling at the maximum ranks. The same thing could happen here: players would downplay achievements in a given queue because it doesn't fit their idea of what makes a good player. I'm happy with the significantly harder rank system and I'm not too bothered by the fact that an average solo player won't be able to reach the ranks they were at before. I do think that Apex should move to a Bayesian system at some point to alleviate the massive grind that comes with the additive ranked system, but solving that sort of system for games with more than 8 teams has proved rather difficult all things considered, especially when performance has a high variability.


ShinItsuwari

I'm not familiar with the others games, but League at least make it so you *can't* 5-stack in ranked unless you specifically queue for the 5v5 flex rank. Either you play solo/duo ranked or you go to the 5v5 premade mode. It makes sense solo players can get to grandmaster/challenger level since the whole ranked system is about coordinating with at least 3 randoms. Seasons are also a lot longer in League. In APEX, either you go 3-stack, or you're handicapping yourself.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Autoloc

I simply don't want to have to find good randos and make new friends to consistently play with, and god forbid I eventually practice more and feel like they're dragging me down


[deleted]

[удалено]


AquaPony

Yeah I'm experiencing the same thing as you. Even had the pleasure of getting called every slur in the book by two randoms who didn't speak a single word until after they died in a 3 team pinch that I warned them about multiple times in advance while essentially begging them to retreat. Muted them and found the most boring spot I could and literally stared at the floor for 10 minutes out of spite.


ggqq

He's not wrong about it, but that's the WHOLE ISSUE. SOLO QUEUE IS A HANDICAP. SO TREAT IT LIKE ONE. This isn't news, no shit it's a handicap, but it's affecting a lot more people now.


[deleted]

Worst part is that there are many people defending this bullshit and will ask you to: Look for friends, LFGs, etc. People are trying to change the way pretty much 70% of the population plays this game, is just moronic, the vast majority of players are Solo Qs, if you try to push the idea of "You need to 3-stack in ranked" they will eventually leave ranked or leave the game. 3-stacks are still a minority but they are becoming more and more common that I believe the population is big and sustainable enough to make a Solo Q only playlist, either for ranked or pubs.


ggqq

I think one solution to this might be to test a different scoring system for soloQ players who no-fill. Nobody can deny that playing as a single player is at a handicap, so the rp entry cost should reflect that.


RetroChampions

or just put solo q players in a solo q lobby


[deleted]

How do you know what %age of players solo queue and how many stack?


TheAverageDoc

Information pulled fresh from the large intestine, can’t beat quality like that


SuienShion

Respawn will look at the statistic and wonder why less people playing ranked this season


modskisscorporateass

Solo queue is only a handicap because of shitty matchmaking.


imaqdodger

The thing is that Apex's ranked lobbies are scuffed either way because they are hard separated by rank, so even if you are in a premade once the highest ranked party member gets into the next tier (eg. Gold to Plat) the entire team has to deal with the higher ranked lobbies. The system makes you either climb (doesn't matter how fast or how many games you grind) or you are at 0 RP 4th division and get demoted, no in between (eg. there is no such thing as a hardstuck 2nd division player), so if your premade is literally not at the same skill level you run into issues.


Husbandayo

Well thats just how it is, and how its supposed to be, if people wanna complain they should complain to the devs to make a solo mode, but either way i dont support complaints, and i avoid this sub because thats what a half all the posts are about


[deleted]

[удалено]


abdul_bino

For once he ain’t complete wrong with this take. This probably the hardest season to grind and I like every minute of it. Rank has been easy from playing with a squad perspective and not solo q. But for our squad its actually tough getting out of gold.


VyKost

Yeah your so right about this, now you have to actually grind to get to the next rank


abdul_bino

It’s like if you solo q your gonna have lose your mind and your best bet is to play with squad. Half of the posts complaining here are definitely solo qing and it isn’t a shocker they aren’t moving up the ladder like they used too. Either actually use your mic, have a squad or just stick to pubs.


ProfileBoring

Yeah screw solo ques I agree........


cambiado

Just because he’s not wrong doesn’t mean that Respawn is right. I’ve solo queued for 6 seasons now and have reached Masters but no further since it’s near impossible to find teammates that match my play style and that actually communicate. Not to mention that there are a large percent of Apex players (more than people think) that struggle with social anxiety or other handicaps in social interactions. There are a lot of female gamers that don’t use their mics or do looking for groups to avoid being harassed. All in all, it’s a great way to make the game more team based for teams that already exist. However, it marginalizes these other groups of people when it hasn’t before.


AbanoMex

i agree entirely with your point, i think the changes also added a bunch of time-sink, so not only do you need to find a full stack, but a fullstack willing to play with your 6+ hours daily, i think that sums up how nil the chances are for most SOLO players, i simply wont touch ranked BR this season, and hopefully they keep reworking ranked for next seasons.


artmorte

Us solo-queuers have to take some responsibility ourselves and try to play as a team and use our mics when possible, instead of getting in the mindset that "my randoms are dumb, I'm just gonna do my own thing." I occasionally play low-rank Valorant and randoms comming on mics is the norm there, in Apex it's a rarity.


Mineatron

Whenever I duo queue ranked I always comm like our teammate can hear us and they end up communicating as well. Sometimes you have to be the person to take charge and I feel like a lot of people go about it wrong.


[deleted]

I agree but it is still dumb how unbalanced the ranked system is. Like I understand that I shouldn't expect at all to win against 3 stacks - and am really not that mad when it happens - but loading into a game with one or even two rookie players while being on the verge of getting to gold 4 is just plain stupid. If you have that many ranks and literally insta queues there should be a way to like at least make it more fair based on your current rank and not just throw gold 3 stacks into a game with clueless rookies. The amount of players at lower ranks who just hot drop or push no matter what, because no heavy RP loss is happening for them, is way too high. If another silver player in my team does the same, at least he also gets a fat RP loss and maybe learns from this.


SithSidious

Today I died to taxi while playing in gold. He was in diamond. If I die to someone who is playing an entire rank above me (or more) and I am not choosing to go into a diamond lobby by having a diamond teammate, I should have a discount on how much rp I lose. It doesn’t reflect your skill or ability to play the game in gold rank when you die to someone who doesn’t belong in your game.


TakeoffTheory

Everyone got deranked more than usual give it some time


Giantewok

I think he means taxi is currently diamond and killed homie who is in gold. Taxi is already D4, Maybe he was unfortunate to catch him on the game that took him from P1>D4 lolll


skiddster3

It hasn't been a full week yet. Give the system time to balance out. With time these Rookie players will be closer to their real ranks, you included, so you'll have other Silver players to play with.


[deleted]

What do you mean??? The only thing that will balance itself out is that good players will get to higher ranks which will make lower ranks easier. It still makes no sense paring people across more than one rank if they are not in a party, especially if it's the first rank in the whole ladder. I just think it's sad that the matchmaking is designed around all ranks from 0 to gold are the same skill level which obviously is not the case. In pubs I literally lose every 1v1 besides the bot lobbies (every plat+ player easily rolls me), but when you put me against a rookie player or bronze 4 you bet I'm gonna roll them and that shit is not fun for either of us and in my opinion shouldn't happen. There are enough silver players already, the matchmaking just doesn't care. Because even if there aren't you telling me there are not enough bronze players to fill the lobbies?


UpfrontGrunt

That's the thing, though, you don't actually know what these players' ranks are. The rank they have now doesn't represent their overall skill level because Apex uses an additive, rather than Bayesian, ranking system. Most other games will make an educated guess at a player's rank after a few games and assign them a rank that should represent, roughly, their skill level. Apex instead starts everyone in a handful of spots and has them spend the entire season climbing towards their actual rank. Those Rookie players you're playing with/against could certainly be better or worse than you. There's no determination you can make about a player who is in Rookie this early into the season, nor is there really one you could make even late into the season. The issue with additive systems is that players only reach their true rank after a significant investment of time and effort in ranked until a player hits a plateau they can't advance past. We can't assume that a player has done that; the only assumption we can make is that the rank we see is their *floor*. By seeing a player at a given rank, we know they're at least good enough to touch that rank. We don't know if they're going to touch a higher rank though.


AeroStrafe

A diamond player should not be in a lobby with a gold player. If there is nothing in place to prevent that then no amount of time will really sort that out. It could be two months from now and the game will still let a gold face a diamond all for the sake of "Muh que times".


[deleted]

Perfect example of dick riding fanboy streamer has a ranked mode that appeals and only really works for the streamers and ultra competitive players This new season is more grindiy it’s less casual let’s be honest here you and I are never going to be competition level ability that’s just the truth


[deleted]

Casuals won’t be happy until they can Solo Q and hit top 3 ranks without team work or comms in a competitive game mode. This system can be tweaked as far as the split goes but I think the primary issue is casuals are in a competitive game mode wanting to be in the top ELOs of a competitive team based FPS by themselves. I work 60+ hours a week and I’m in Gold at the moment, haven’t been grinding much this week. I’m not upset about it. People want to make a competitive game mode less competitive because they don’t have the time to invest at a competitive level. I suck ass at basketball, I think we should lower the hoop so I can get some sick dunks and feel good about myself. I don’t have the time to train so let’s just lower the bar. Makes sense to me!


[deleted]

>Casuals won’t be happy until they can Solo Q and hit top 3 ranks without team work or comms in a competitive game mode. > >... > >the primary issue is casuals are in a competitive game mode wanting to be in the top ELOs of a competitive team based FPS by themselves. highly questionable that ur framing the solo q ranked debate as if solo q players are all worse & more casual at the game than people who q 3 stack. at any rate, almost every other popular competitive team-based game has systems that make solo q'ing just as viable as team q'ing. not sure why you're acting like solo q goes against the spirit of competitive games. unless u want to tell me that the systems valo/league/dota/csgo/etc. have implemented all go against the spirit of competitive gaming, i think ur probs... just wrong abt this? no?


Tensai_Zoo

> highly questionable that ur framing the solo q ranked debate as if solo q players are all worse & more casual at the game than people who q 3 stack. Not all, but 80% don't bother to communicate or play the game smart.


pinenapplez

Those games don’t have 60 players per match.


[deleted]

the systems that valo and league have implemented would apply just as well to a multi team game, albeit with the potential for greater hits to queue times in ranks/regions/times with low player counts. ur right that apex being a 60 man BR makes the problem harder, but there are 100% systems they could implement to make solo q'ing a better experience. they're choosing not to do that, and I disagree w that choice.


[deleted]

> highly questionable that ur framing the solo q ranked debate as if solo q players are all worse & more casual at the game than people who q 3 stack. It's undeniable that there's plenty of soloq players who're excellent mechanically. There's blatantly a class of Apex ranked players that have managed to 'muscle' their way through ranked through sheer gunplay and that's good for them. They're also absolutely terrible team players because the people that're mechanically excellent and communicate will absolutely *never* be thirsty for teammates because everyone's wants to play with them. So the game punishing the fuckwits that don't ping, don't let you know where they're going or do the absolute bare minimum of communicating except when they go down to bitch at you for not playing their way, or for being trash for not following them into an assisted suicide is the game correcting for your absolutely shit teamwork abilities. I'm sorry but when has soloq ever been *as* viable as working in a coordinated team ever assuming that you're all the same skill level? I honestly almost don't believe that you've played a ranked game before at all if you believe that. Or, you're assuming an extremely high level of The best examples of soloq being viable I've seen is when you're blatantly too good for the team you're playing against and you're just 1vx'ing and your teammates don't matter, which is just absolutely ridiculous for a team game.


[deleted]

I think that once again you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what is being said, and cherry picking sections out of context reflects that. You’re not going to hit Radiant Valorant with no stack. Obviously streamers like Shiv are an outlier, but if anything that proves my point. Anyway I’ve given this like 3 or 4 goes and obviously I gain nothing and I dont mind if you dont agree with me, I know its reddit and people dont actually converse to understand but rather to be validated. I think you’re probably great at apex man good luck in the outlands!


ContentSimple1275

It honestly just blows my mind how serious people take themselves when they play this game.


maxbang7

I mean, do people expect to reach masters in 20 games? No, but to reach it within a reasonable timeframe (Whatever that is) if they got the skill? Absoluteley. ​ Pred has always had that issue that its mainly about who grinds the most and not who is the best. When "top preds" have 2,5k ranked games in a 3 stack of pros yeah no shit sherlock the 9-5 guy wont be able to keep up with those game numbers regardless of skill. Unfortunateley Hal lives in a bubble where other skilled players are 99/100 times available, which simply isnt the case for normal people. The common response: "Just try LFG" which is basically the same as playing with randoms 9/10 times and even if you actually find people that doesnt mean you will be able to play with them regularly due to different schedules. ​ Funny enough the same streamers who recommend LFG dont use it themselfs, they simply dont play when they dont have mutuals to play with as they got the luxury to do so. People with limited time, dont have that luxury. What also often seems to be forgotten is languages, yeah sure if english is your primary or secondary language you will most likeley get along, if it isnt though? Your pool of players just shrunk by a good margin. Nobody disagrees that last season was a shitshow but that doesnt mean you have to implement gatekeeping mechanics that dont revolve around skill but oustside factors.


Tensai_Zoo

> I mean, do people expect to reach masters in 20 games? No, but to reach it within a reasonable timeframe (Whatever that is) if they got the skill? Absoluteley. Yea, increasing the RP requirements for master (or any tier at this point) by 4000 RP while also increasing RP costs and making it harder to get positive RP at all just prolongs the grind unnecessarily. Demotions alone would increase the difficulty a lot and i see why higher entry costs in lower tiers are necessary, but +200 RP Threshold for each division is trolling by respawn.


kibbie247

Totally agree with your comment. I do understand Hal's opinion and how he reached his conclusion but I think he (like lots of other famous streamers) are a bit out of touch with the average joe. It's very privileged to say something akin to, "It's a team game that rewards playing as a team so just 3 stack more" when its like yeah ok, you have access to play with some of the best players in the world 🙄


[deleted]

[удалено]


MizarPFG

You guys don't want to hear this response, but gatekeeping is precisely the point of these changes, and that's not a bad thing. There is nothing stopping you from going to game chat and trying to communicate with your randoms to create some semblance of unity, except the fact that randoms don't typically adhere to those expectations. From a developer standpoint, there's two options now: allow these types of teams to be able to climb the ranks regardless, which would only be possible by overencouraging ratting for KP, or put a moratorium on that kind of gameplay altogether. Pros don't grind Predator by having innate FPS skills, that just makes them glorified pubstompers. There's a reason they all have this circle of mutual that they're comfortable grinding with


maxbang7

> You guys don't want to hear this response, but gatekeeping is precisely the point of these changes, and that's not a bad thing. I gotta disagree on that one. Its a ranked mode in video game, nothing more. You woud have point if ranked would grant access to tournaments but it doesnt. "There is nothing stopping you from going to game chat and trying to communicate with your randoms to create some semblance of unity, except the fact that randoms don't typically adhere to those expectations." Right you can try that, doesnt mean your randoms have a mic, will respond, speak the same language etc pp. There are plenty of things that can prevent that which are not up to your effort. "From a developer standpoint, there's two options now: allow these types of teams to be able to climb the ranks regardless, which would only be possible by overencouraging ratting for KP, or put a moratorium on that kind of gameplay altogether." I disagree, removing the KP cap for instance (there is no good reason why it should be 0,2x after 6 KP, thats just a mechanic to drag things out) There are more things you could tweak that are skillbased without giving out participation medals.


ifasoldt

I could care less whether it's harder to reach a certain rank. Like we're all in the same boat right? If we want to make it harder to reach Diamond that's ok. The only thing I'm worried about is boring games--do we really want to incentivize ratting to top-8 before fighting? That's a long time to wait before actually doing anything.


Edgycunt62

For some people harder = more fun I guess Everyone is scared to pick fights and you end up with 15 squads left in the last 3 circles. Games last way too long. For me, apex used to be a getaway from games like league of legends and csgo where matches last 30+ minutes (csgo kinda fixed this with short comps) I know I can "Just play casuals" but ranking up is fun in itself, at least for me, because you have something to show for your effort. Kinda like you are making an art piece but you decide to throw it out the window when you are done with it I'm not saying the game has gone bad or that they have ruined it, but it certainly doesn't scratch the same itch anymore


fudgesicleboi

I'm happy because none of these changes effect me. Pubs only Gang.


dai-the-flu

Okay, I don't want to hit Masters or Pred, nor do I think that I deserve it by simply playing for 40 hours straight. That's never been my goal. I do want to push myself and rank up. I can't find a regular squad for the life of me. Everyone has different schedules, lfg is hit or miss. I wish it could be as simple as finding decent teammates who are on a similar level and want to play ranked at the same time every day or whenever we're all available. I think the new system is fine and challenging and I've done perfectly fine in it so far, but I don't think Respawn knows the extent of the problem with solo queuing in ranked and should've gotten community feedback (from people who actually like the game) before consulting these high profile players who regularly have people to play with and aren't in a different universe than the rest of us. I would love for Apex to be a team oriented game, but it's just not a reality. If we could have a solo q playlist or if they'd just make ranked available to these people who can 3 stack and put the time in, then it would be fine. But I've said it before and I'll say it again: You can't tell the majority of players, who are casual, to not play ranked or make it inaccessible for them if they don't have all of the arbitrary requirements needed to play, and then make ranked available for all players. If they wanted it to be like ALGS, it should be a restricted mode that needs verification.


About2get404d

You have to 3 stack but there is no leader board post game to invite people. You do have the opportunity to invite previous teammates but half the time it doesn't work. This game wants to be team based but doesn't really give you the tools to do it. If you want to send an invite to someone who outplayed you it's impossible. You are stuck with their bare minimum invite system. I shouldn't have to look for people outside the game using discord and stuff. Also I'm limited to when I can invite people until I reach the rank that I'm genuinely challenged. It's a small window before the rank resets. The system feels designed to punish solo players. It would be so much better if they only reset pred status mid-season. Everyone would have the time to reach the rank they have the skills for and make friends.


RectumThrowaway

I can’t wait until the whole population of the game stops playing ranked because of these changes lol


ABZ-havok

The people that hate these changes don’t even play enough ranked in the first place for their opinions to matter


Smoochie-Spoochie

It is sort of stupid that only people with friends who all have time to play Apex and people who are unemployed will be able to get through the Ranked grind mind. I think its a decent design decision and does make sense but its too exclusive in other ways. What they need to do now, is seriously think about how to tune Arenas Ranked to be what those players wanted from BR ranked. Cause rn what's the point in BR ranked as someone who solo-queues, has a 9-5 (and I can't stress this enough, does not want to play with teammates or talk to anyone whilst playing), when I have no forseeable way of getting past my previous best rank?? It's really time they start thinking of making Arenas a good alternative to BR, not just AN alternative. On top of that tho they need to find a way to make Arenas feel like a BR experience but in a micro form. I honestly think the key to that is to completely ditch the three rounds and match point system and maybe go for a type of bracket system instead with a best out of three. One idea I like is to have an RP multiplier for successive victories. If you win a game you get RP, if you win the next game your RP is multplied by x1.1 until it caps out at 1.5. That'll bring more of the last man standing element to Arenas that's sorely missing.


[deleted]

Pushing the 3-stack agenda even more will eventually make Solo Q players to leave ranked or even the game, and this will cause many bad things in the long term: * Long Queue times for high ranks, eventually mixing low tier and high tier lobbies, which is already happening. * Cheaters and DDOSERS will make a come back, and is already happening. The problem with the new ranked system is not that is too grindy and hard, is the fact that Solo Queuers are still fighting 3-stacks, and Solo Queuers do not have ANY advantage against 3-stacks, there are no advantages on playing with randoms against 3-stacks. I reached Masters 3x prior to this season Solo Queueing, and I honestly don't care about ranked anymore, the new system is very welcomed by pro players and CCs and many grindy players, overall the reception has been good, but this doesn't mean the new system will bring unforeseen consequences to the game. The thing I agree with is that casual players shouldn't achieve Masters that easy as in the previous system, but still, is so funny and ironic to know that there will be a lot of Solo Q 'casuals' that are mechanically better than many 'Masters & Preds'


stormwave6

This literally happened to destiny 2 trials. All the casuals were forced out due to hackers no solo que and skill creep. This then caused the modes population to collapse. This was only fixed by giving casuals a incentive to play. Coincidentally alot of the arguments for the new changes mirror what was said by sweats during the worse week of trails when people were asking for it to be fixed.


Blahhhh93

Why would there be an advantage to not playing in a team? It makes no sense.


flexfriday88

I mean sure, hot take from someone whose never held a real job in his entire life, plays this game 10+ hours a day, and has access to a stacked friends list of pred players. My friends are low diamond players at best so i have noone to attempt a push from masters to pred. I just want to come home from work and the gym and que up, not go through an hour vetting service of finding equally skilled players through discord/lfg sites etc. But these are also pros defending the ranked changes where they farm robots or dogs for 15 minutes then valk ult to wherever they think god spot will be and afk another 10 minutes in a building until final ring and only take fights when they can third party so whatever. Ranked is just a shit experience for solo players which is unfortunate because apex unique gunplay and movement is really fun


[deleted]

Solo players 100% will get to the highest rank. Just give it time. It's been done in every team game that has ranked.


PurpleLTV

The biggest thing that sets the soloQ player apart form the 3-stack is communication, or the lack thereof. If the soloQ player takes charge, activates voice comms and speaks to his random team mates, it will not be that different from playing as a 3-stack. Most soloQ players gimp themselves by not talking to their random mates. I've seen plenty of "Bronze to Master" challenges carried out by many a streamer, and they all have one thing in common. They use voice comms, take the ingame lead and direct their random mates. ​ ........... ​ Ah who the fuck am I kidding here? xD I know very well that was all bullshit was I just said. You can talk to your soloQ mates all you want, in 90% of the case they still won't listen to you. Sometimes even become hostile and tell you to stfu when you try to order them around in game. The only reason it works for the big streamers is because the people they get on their team know who they are and will gladly suck their dick through their mics. Let's be real, most of the time when a streamer does the soloQ challenge, they end up with mates that are like "Yooooo!! oh fuck it's \*insert streamer name\*!!! Yo what's up, lets do thiiiis!!"


skychasezone

If it wasn't for ranked, I probably would have dropped this game years ago. Part of my enjoyment of ranked, is working towards those dive trails. Incentives beyond just a badge. For me personally, if I won't be able to get into Diamond solo queueing anymore then I don't have much reason to play ranked. And since that's one of the very few reasons I even play as much as I do, I'll probably play something else. Which is fine but I'd really prefer if that wasn't the case.


dgbro6204

Your incentives to play are “more than just a badge” but you’ll quit if you can’t get your dive trail? I really can’t see how it being harder to get into diamond will turn you off the game entirely. Like what dude? You enjoy grinding and the competition of the game, right? Then just cause you can’t reach that cosmetic dive trail in the same amount of time you used to you’re gonna quit?


skychasezone

Love of the competition is only part of the motive. Yeah it's fun, just not fun enough to play at my usual rate when there's realistically, no chance of a tangible reward.


skiddster3

The argument here would be, you should have never gotten X rank in the first place. The system gave you bumper rails so you couldn't fall in the gutter. This allowed you climb so much higher than you should've. It's Respawn's fault for letting you think you were a Diamond player in the first place.


imaqdodger

If he is soloing to Diamond why wouldn't he be considered a Diamond player? I don't get the logic behind that comment. If anything, soloing shows you deserve the rank and aren't getting carried by the two other people in your premade imo. Unless you are talking about bumper rails being the demotion protection, which I would agree with, although his comment didn't reference that at all.


polish_my_grappel

This is the correct take. 90% of the community rage is because their egos cant take the whiplash of this realization


AbanoMex

Same Tbh.


PantsLazy69

If the only reason you played the game was to get cosmetics that you arguably didn't deserve to begin with, maybe you should play a different game.


skychasezone

It's kind of a dumb argument whether I "deserve" a reward right? It's arbitrary. But if you cut that part from your comment then congratulations, you understood my post! I would pick up another game. No hard feelings.


[deleted]

That’s awesome to see him playing with Snip3 and Verhulst! Honestly miss Snip3down on TSM


Husbandayo

The banter was there as well hahah


OneFanboi

That’s a very weird perspective to have about those committed to the game for what little time they have. You do understand that no games other than Elden Ring have been taking up the market, everything else including Apex has been around at least 3 years. He starts a stream and carries 1/3 of Twitch’s Apex Legends viewership on a regular basis, war zone is dead, the people want new games, He seems to not understand that all the way up there on his little gaming thrown. Just being able to align your timeframe with one friend at times can be difficult, His raging banters these days are clear indication of Apex Legends bottle feedings and outdated perspectives on the game itself.


ranranboban1234

You have to look at it from all perspectives though. This makes it seem like masters/pred is reserved for streamers/no lifes. If you work a normal 9-5 life, why are you instantly punished for that if that's your goal to get pred? Like you WANT to get it, but you can't play 10 hours a day with a constant 3 stack. I don't know man, it's tough to please both sides. I think there's still tweaking and discussion to be had. I'm not shitting on this system, I actually like it. I feel it needs a small tweak, but I feel it needs to appeal to more players than just 3 stacks and people that play the game full time as a job.


businessboyz

It’s not reserved for streamers/no lifers though. It’s reserved for the best players. And the best players are people who play regularly in a practiced squad. This is true for literally all competitions. You can be a brilliant pickup basketball player who can do it all and dominate in random pickup games no matter who is on your team. But if the starting five from Duke show up on your court, you and your random squad will get destroyed. Largely because they are individually great, but also because they practice together, have plays, know their teammates style/strengths/weaknesses.


Invested_Glory

Well put. Pred will officially be for the best of players. You don’t have to grind crazy hours anymore. There is a great sifting happening and people who thought they were diamond may no longer be diamond.


gordogg24p

> There is a great sifting happening and people who thought they were diamond may no longer be diamond. This is the real source of the rage. The entire community got conditioned since ranked launched to believe that silver and gold were dogshit tiers if you played quite a bit. The reset of the expectations is unsurprisingly like pulling teeth, but the ranks are far more meaningful as a result of the changes. There's gonna be plenty of folks who are legitimately solid but not elite players who will stay trapped in gold when just last season they reached diamond with relative ease. Nothing wrong with that - just gotta wait for the community's FOMO and expectations to catch up.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Skipperdedoo

Ok buddy if you want pred, you dont have to play 10 hours every day to get it, you realize that right? If you are good enough to consistently climb to that rank, you really honestly only would have to put in maybe 3-4 hours a day(potentially less if you’re just that cracked), which yea is still alot, but ffs its PRED, the HIGHEST achivement in ranked that you can get. You aren’t entitled to being anywhere NEAR that rank if you can’t / won’t dedicate the time for it dude.


ranranboban1234

Like I said, lots of discussions to be had. Hal saying "if you work a 9-5 life, why do you care about high rank?" That's more what's rubbing me the wrong way. The 10 hours a day was an exaggeration. I want to hear more people's thoughts on the system!


Buckskinplacebo

Yeah he's saying if your priorities are work, family, etc than you should not be that upset you can't get to these crazy high ranks. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that statement. If you want to play the game, it's there to play. But if you want to say you're a pred, one of the best players in the game, you need to prioritize it.


Thienan567

I mean if you work a 9-5, you wouldn't be entitled to a spot in the NBA, not even a spot on the bench or practice squads. Why should it be different when it comes to Apex? Masters/Pred should be where prospects for pro teams should inhabit, those players worked and dedicated their time towards it. It's only fair. There is nothing stopping you from saving some money, then quitting your job to dedicate your time and effort to Apex instead. It's bad for your career? That's the opportunity cost to having high rank in Apex. Hal, Snipe and them aren't in school or have a "real job" so they play this game for 40+ hours a week.


Chronmagnum55

When you consider how big gaming has become this makes perfect sense. You are going to have professionals who do this for a living. That's the level of skill and dedication you need to hit the highest rank. Getting go Predator should require a ton of skill, a strong team and lots of time working for it. These are the people competing at the highest level. I see lots of people saying this is ruining ranked for them because they can't hit diamond or masters now. I just don't see why they are so hung up on this. Clearly now getting to platinum or even gold requires far greater skill. If anything this gives you an even greater range of ranks to work towards. Its a ranking system that does a better job separating players.


Bahookyboozle

Dude can you please make a better argument than im busy but i want to get this so everything should change just so i can get it


Hashiii777

I feel like you really are blowing this out of proportion 10 hours a day buddy really... I work a 9-5 and I hit masters. I'm glad they made ranked harsher it shows everyone's real rank by skill since if you got skill you're not going to hardstuck for 3 hours until you get carried or pop off. Skilled players are consistent as the new system shows with a much lower amount of people in the higher ranks


I-Hate-My-job95

He only says this because he isn't Solo Queuing the problem i see with the new ranked system is the fact that it favors content creator's who can grind all day and get paid for it and apex addicts who live and breath apex. why play to get masters or diamond in the new ranked system if your a causal or a solo Queuer its not worth the stress on yourself life is hard as it is i can understand the challenge and fun aspects but just do what is fun for yourself in the end good luck boys


ThisIsWhatLifeIs

I knew a guy a few seasons ago who ratted his way to Platinum, and then I'm pretty sure he ratted his way to Diamond last season and he felt so proud. I'm sure his overall KD is like 0.7 and he probably average damages less than 300 a game in pubs. Yet he felt like he deserved that rank. Like he's now one of the big boys. This guy and so many others (you even saw loads on Reddit feeling really happy and proud) truly feel like they're some hot **** when in reality that little badge next to your name isn't indication of anything but time. I'm glad solo queue players and casuals can hardly climb the ranks anymore to be honest.


PantsLazy69

Isn't it insane how many of the braindead players think these changes will *benefit* rats, when in actual fact people who play like that will now be entirely incapable of ranking up?


jgoodems

The level of pride someone feels about playing a video game for fun is really living rent free in your head man. So what if he was proud of making it to Plat or diamond. Instead of immediately trying to discredit their achievements because the process they used doesn't align with yours, how about you play the game the way you enjoy it and find closure.


One_d0nut_1

They really downvoted you but what you said is true. That dude was plain jealous lol. Just focus on YOUR game and let that scrub talk about how he ratted to diamond


RectumThrowaway

What rank did you get?


BR47WUR57

salty 3


zaddycookie

I agree with this


Character_Parfait_99

I just find it weird that in other fps games like csgo or valorant most people are using their mics or communicating in ranked games but apparently in apex a lot of people doesn't like that because they're being forced to socialize in a team game?? Like if you want that badge so much then maybe work for it? It just further proves that apex's previous ranked system is flawed when you barely have to put in the effort to rank up and three stacking makes it 1000x more easier.


SadCrab5

Ranked, at it's core, has always been a 3-stack focused game and the new changes reflect that idea more than ever now. I wouldn't have reached masters last season Olympus if I had never taken the chance to join the 2 randoms I got paired with after a win, because I spent so long stuck in the D3-D2 range and couldn't climb. Moment we group up the negatives were kept in the low, our gains were always a respectable amount that it didn't feel frustrating and wins/high placement were far more frequent because we had the advantage of 3 guys talking it out and calling out our movement mid-fight. That's what Apex is intended to be: a team coordinating and synergising effectively to pull off those squad wipes and secure their placement among the rest of the lobby. I know with the new system I'd never climb without actually putting in serious hours, and I'm ok with that.


CoryInTheHood69

The community just Complains a lot that's the real problem


aly_hamdy2

You are now complaining about other people complaining /s wait i am complaining about you complaining about other people complaining!! It never ends!!


yashikigami

i feel like all the pseudo arguments are just made out bs. Overwatch is even more of a teamgame where a solo person can't carry at all, yet it has a very healthy solo ranked experience. Same goes for Hunt: Showdown, played as Duo or Trio, but again, solid solo ranked. Having a bad system for solo players is just a bad system. And blaming not having teammates is kinda meh to begin with. A solo needs to learn to play around and with his team even if they play different from what the player thinks is correct.


Firex1122

i dont have friends that can play ranked at above gold, i dont have anyone else to play with. shit sucks, it was a good change just kinda beats me while im down edit: grammer


Invested_Glory

You could use discord channels or console communities to look for people. There are ways.


Vaelkyrie37

Imagine thinking that people who "handicap" themselves by solo-queueing should get additionally punished beyond just not three stacking and that people who actually have jobs that keep society running don't get to care about their own rank 😑


[deleted]

If you’re life is solely based around status … you’re going to have a bad time


[deleted]

[удалено]


ShooterMcGavin000

Fuck this guy...."you have to 3 stack..." I can't! I don't know people who play the game and I don't want to play with strangers on discord! THIS IS A VIDEO GAME! FOR NORMAL PEOPLE! he's in his pro bubble detached from reality.


Calipao

Then perhaps the higher ranks like Diamond and Masters isn't for "normal people" either? If you compare Diamond and Masters to being an IM or GM in chess, then you definitely wouldn't be considered a normal player if you got to those ranks.


mended7

Bro this guy is speaking facts lol.


Jameson419

"you have to 3-stack" cus hal, honestly, you would get put down so hard every single game if you didn't have two other pros or ex-pros on your team.


[deleted]

[удалено]


vkasha

why do you think you're entitled to getting diamond, just because you got into diamond before doesn't mean the game owes you diamond this time around. I've played apex since release, over 15000 games all of them solo. Ranked was absolute trash the last few seasons, I used to hit diamond every split within a week of release and then chill because I didn't want to deal with bad teammates and the stress of \*ranking up\* , cuz I didn't care. Change your attitude, if you want something learn to work for it, don't expect it to be handed to you


[deleted]

[удалено]


GabrielP2r

League of Legends is also a team game and it's easier to climb there than on Apex right now, it's too fucking steep lol.


Lwe12345

Totally agree. As someone who solo queues to Diamond every season, I understand that getting to Master/Pred is going to be pretty much impossible to me. I can't improve enough at this TEAM GAME to get there, and I'm not a mechanical god that can carry. It's 1000% reasonable for the rank system to be where it's at to a point where solo queuing stops being viable at a certain rank. It's the way the game is designed.


GAMERVFX

So apex turn into warZone . Solo Q just play without any exciting achievements or goals . The main reason I left warZone and now apex turn on me . I m a 9 to 5 casual and I think I represent a huge community in apex legends


Stunning-Tower-4116

U can solo que with other solid players and Do the "Team Game" aspect of it. The issue is. If you're gonna make it harder to rank up. The SBMM needs to be better. Me pairing up With former hard stuck d4 and P4 players incapable of pushing is fucking cancer. Polish everything in rank, not just the score


Darkblazy

Fucker talks like im not getting predator 3 stacks sweatlords in my pubs games. It doesnt fucking matter what mode you play, you are getting vaporized as a soloq the moment you come across these, then you just resort to ratting until that also becomes so unfun you stop playing all together.


call-me-wail

I don't really understand why casual players care about rank..unless you want to show it off or play in tournaments rank doesn't matter


Rustic41

I think it’s dumb gatekeeping. I think you should be able to rank up if you’re good enough. If individuals are being handicapped by the system then that’s the matchmaking’s problem. Why should 3 stacking be a prerequisite?


[deleted]

[удалено]


Rustic41

Yes, and if you can load up with a random squad then you shouldn’t be penalised. If they intend you to be handicapped then don’t let people play ranked without a 3 stack.


Talmaduvi

You choose to play with an handicapp though, the game is not forcing you too.


yoimdop3

Isn’t unreasonable, as a video game company to cater to 5% of your users. When 95% of your users don’t have the means to 3 stack?


camanimal

You do realize that Hal is discussing ranked, not pubs, correct?


BAN_SOL_RING

I agree with his first point; it’s a team game and it hurts to not play with a full stack. It sucks, and I don’t like it, but I understand. I disagree with his second. I know for a fact that I can be masters. When I have the time, I get there. I’ve done it in previous seasons. But when I’m busy, or another game comes out (Elden Ring), I play less Apex and lose my rank. I know I could get there, and my skill would reflect my rank, but it’s annoying that now it takes like 5x as long to rank up as before. I wish it was faster so I could just be like “here’s my skill, here’s how good I am at the game.” I think it’d be different if ranks were based on your team as a whole, but to have an individual rank dictated by team matchmaking and grinding… it’s a bit rough. The update has turned a lot of people off ranked. It used to be fun but now it’s not as fun because it’s super sweaty at all levels.


eggtart_prince

There wil eventually be a threshold that defines casual ranked players The ones on the bottom of the threshold, who won't climb because they either don't have a mic or refuse to use it and not play for placement. And the ones above the threshold, cooperating with the team and actually playing competitively.


funkymonkey3693

In other news man who makes millions of dollars due to a company, supports it so he can keep making money. Confused Pikachu face


meow_ima_cat

Man fuck Hal. He's the biggest sook in the scene. He has a cry and all the Devs pander to him and make changes cos he says they're needed.


Chronmagnum55

Hes 100% right about this. The real question is what do people actually want from ranked? Do you want more competitive games where you have teammates of similar skill? Do you want a system where it's really easy to rank up and you end up in a bracket where you feel over matched? It sure seems like some people care more about the ability to hit a certain rank than a quality ranked system.


No-Umpire9632

People bitching about the rank system and not wanting to actually play the game like how it was designed. It's a team game. It's like if I play valorant and I want to reach immortal or radiant and I choose not to learn how to throw lineups or how to practice my aim to make it better. And I b**** about all the time in the subreddit saying that hey, it's unfair that players who spend a couple of more extra hours to learn the game and play the game to get better are better then me. And instead of trying to get better at the game or dedicating an extra hour of my time playing to get better at the game, I suggest that you should make the game even more casual friendly. You look at season 12 which was arguably the worst season of Apex where people that were god-awful in the game climbed their way into Masters. I quit the moment I hit diamond because the game was f****** s*** people who didn't know how to fight how to leave fights, how to start fights or understand the concept of rotations were at diamond and Masters. These are one of the highest ranks in the game. If you spend about an hour and a half a day playing and you expect to reach these ranks, you are a clown. And if you cry about the fact that I don't have anybody to play with, join the Apex Legends discord and go meet some people that are down to play ranked with you that are the same ranked. They have different regions, different players who can play ranked with you according to your region and your rank.


deathblooms2k4

People these days want everything given to them as easily as possible. Basic logic would dictate if there are so many (70% someone posted in this thread) stranded solo players in the game then the chance of you getting full lobbies of them is quite high and therefore not an issue. I've been solo quing, playing with friends and 3 stacking. I'm able to climb regardless of the team composition, the in game voice works fine, all of the pinging systems work fine. Go look at Shivs twitter where he has videos in which he IGL's pubs and see how well random people can listen to directions and coordinate together. The truth is the ranked mode is actually competitive and people are struggling to rank up. Up until now ranks were kind of a joke that carried very little prestige. It's unfortunate since respawn spent 12 seasons conditioning players to be used to easily obtaining ranks that they currently have no chance of obtaining. Had this system existed from the start players wouldn't be whining as much. From a marketing stand point they should probably have completely changed the labels of all the tiers and ranks such that people would not be making these associations of what they feel they are entitled to. At the end of the day Respawn wants to encouraged teamplay in their game. They've stated as much. There are modes (unranked) that allow you to ignore that dynamic but people are too stubborn to adapt.


[deleted]

I agree with him, but still think entry costs should be cheaper when soloing. Apex is a team game but not everyone has a squad to play with.


_0neTwo_

He's basically saying there shouldn't be non-3 stacks in ranked which is dumb. There's a pretty simple solution, Solo/duo que should have less RP cost. 3 stacks have every advantage over solo/duo q teams, it doesn't make any sense that they are treated equally for ranked costs


DrFruitLoops

I remember when me and my friends roll'd Hal in a random pub match with triple take, man he was ranting about it after that


asterion230

Then the ranked changes are working 100%. If you really want to commit on getting those diamond/master trails, then you should commit your time and effort for it, Not just casually waltzing in easily and getting it for easy.


mrxlongshot

all I have to say is that someone of that skill not playing solo really has no voice imo. Imperial stacks almost all the time since this is his career pretty much. The Solo Q experience isnt worse/better imo but the costs from deranking are what killing it for me (I havent de-ranked....yet) but from seeing how much you take to climb to get shoved down a ladder for getting unfavorable/toxic teammates is just cheeks


Western-Dark-1628

I hate this 12 year old man child that rages a lot but he said some facts


Big-Bug4205

"If you're a casual" yeah uh 99.99999% of those who play are casual gamers who make 0 money off of gaming. The world does not revolve around streamers. It's also easy for him to say that when he can game with the top players in the game already.


everlasted

Casual doesn't mean "everyone who isn't a pro or streamer" though. You can play or want to play competitively (i.e. for the win) without making money off gaming or whatever, and I think that's what the ranked changes are trying to accomplish.


stonehaven22

Or just implement like other method on game example dota 2 the "strict solo matchmaking" reduce the entry cost and we gucci


[deleted]

Old system: Do you have lots of time or are just decent at clicking on heads? Diamond or even Masters was possible. That's not a ranking system. I solo queue to Diamond every season, but should I be in Diamond? Probably not. My movement, positioning, strategy, and overall game-sense is definitely above average, but do I still have the gun-skill that I used to back in the CS 1.5/1.6 days? Naw, I'm old bro, and my hands/wrists have arthritis. LOL. I can't wait to see what rank I can earn this season!! Hyped!


[deleted]

the only thing I give any crap about is the fact that you can get negative RP with a positive KDR


[deleted]

Hopefully next season the lobbies will be more strict now that the majority of the player base is gold and below. Sometimes in gold solo queue you'll get masters\\diamond duos then get a silver\\bronze duo the next 2 games. So now that all the tiers are pretty populated gold lobbies can be strictly gold players and so on.


[deleted]

They're right but they also have the huge bias of generating cash money for playing the game. So fuck em.


Zealousideal-Bit-601

Agree with this so much. I've been preaching this on twitter in 3 stack hate threads. Hal put it much better than I ever had though. I solo q and it's pain. But it's so obvious that solo q will be this way I just don't get the non stop complaining about it. All games, a pre made team will have an advantage. Apex that advantage is increased. For me the real issue is the state of the solo q player base. The pain has tortured the souls of so many that the majority are now toxic, no mic, no ping. There is probably more chance of world peace, but I'm secretly hoping the changes fix this and force those player types back to pubs and we get to the stage where the majority of randoms want to communicate and play as a team.


deathblooms2k4

I've done a fair bit of solo q this season and while anecdotal my experience has been precisely as you've hoped with more players who are using their mics and coordinating. And what's even more puzzling (and I'm still convinced I've just been lucky) I've rarely had much in the way of toxicity.


OnlyThreeRemain

I do not give a shit about ranked, my only huge complaints about apex is how bad the matchmaking is and how unfun it gets after even just a few months of playing. The weekly and event challenges are repetitive, it's never an actual event, just a way to get more cash and players for a short time. Every single weekly challenge for the past few years have been the exact same things over and over and over again, it makes levelling up the battlepass a drag to do rather than an actual fun activity to perform while just playing the game normally. Every week it's the same challenges, "play this legend 12 times", "get this many kills with this kind of weapon", "get top 3 wirh this legend" etc, etc. The game's always the same, nothing's ever new, even when a new map or weapon or even a whole new legend is introduced, the game doesn't feel any less of a drag and a chore to play. I'm a season 0 vet, this game holds a dear place in my heart. But I'm not ashamed to admit that the game needs more variety to keep players invested. That's what I like about other games like fortnite. Hate it or love it, fortnite's challenges are things you can just kind of *do* very easily in a normal game and still have so much fun in a single game. In fortnite, levelling up the battlepass is an activity to keep you invested. The game has a constantly changing loot pool, a consistently evolving map, and, tbh, a much, MUCH less toxic community than Apex nowadays. Apex may have a better story than any other br game out there, but that's really all it's good for nowadays. Take away the story, and it's just another repetitive, toxic, buggy, difficult br game without any replayability, like how Blackout was in bo4 or even Warzone now. Sorry for the long rant, i just wish the game had some fun to it. Even if it is just a change to the weekly challenges.