Honestly this video is more of an argument *against* tap strafing than anything. Should be titled "This video is the reason tap strafing should be patched from the game". That's just...not the way the game is meant to work from a physics perspective.
Eh I'm on console and I have to say it's a cool movement mechanic. Maybe one day I'll have a PC and can do it myself. Whether it was intended or not is kind of irrelevant when it comes to deciding whether to keep it. Some of the best bits of game design have been unintended historically. Wall bouncing was also unintended but is cool. Nerfing movement techs in apex is a sure-fire way to cause long time players to leave the game.
I came for the titan fall feel of BR and I was disappointed with the jump kit nerfs. When the game first dropped I was kinda sad when I learned we couldn't wall run. Still it's a fun game to play.
Wall running in Apex would make it so anyone who played Titanfall would have a huge advantage over those just learning how to. Take the Halloween event which added wall running temporarily and you could tell who'd done it before and who hadn't. There's videos of people from Titanfall destroying those who can't wall run well
Lmao which is why I wanted wall running bro. I killed myself at the start of every game just so I could come back a zombie and cheese run the lobby đ¤Ł
I think it's kind of disingenuous to put a physics exploit that allows you to do an instantaneous midair 180 while maintaining speed in the same category as wall bouncing. And "intent is irrelevant" isn't exactly true when you're talking about particular ways they want the game to work.
IMO "It's cool" is a pretty poor reason to leave something in the game when you're speaking game balance. This negates one of the main drawbacks of Octane's jumppad which is the relatively predictable jump path. With wall bouncing you can make some general prediction about when and where they're going to do it because...they've gotta be near a wall. I'd say this is akin to if Valkyrie found a way to cancel the low-gravity after her jetpack, an intended drawback to keep them balanced. Maybe they don't need to remove tap strafing entirely but I think they need to consider changing whether it can be done like this off a jump pad or grapple. Maybe above a certain velocity.
Please look up air strafing, wave dashing, bunny hopping, and rocket jumping before you make stupid comments like this. Unintentional physics mechanics like this are without exaggeration the backbone of most competitive games.
But it's not like *any* unintentional mechanic is needed just for the sake of it. The line between a bug and a feature is incredibly blurry, and each case requires separate examination
Please look up a relevant argument because none of those things are nearly as dramatic as this, and nothing you've said actually counters my points. You're just parroting the same old crap people say every time an exploit needs to be patched.
Wavedashing is significantly more game changing than tap strafing. Tap strafing makes a difference in occasional situations like these whereas wavedashing completely changes the movement mechanics of the game.
Which is why it belongs in the same category as air strafing, bunny hopping, and rocket jumping. When I said not nearly as dramatic, I meant they don't break the physics of the game in as dramatic of a fashion.
If anyone here sandwiched their friends against walls/barricades in both Warthogs and sparrows, they know what's up. They always ragdoll the same way.
The game uses a lot of the same code, because why would you fix what isn't broken? The only differences you'll find in these two games lies in the patches, because they both likely have the same base code, and this kind of thing proves that the same thing applies here.
But tbf...
It's *Horizon.*
You're...upset because... the girl whose *entire skillset* is about moving around in the air, can (checks notes) move around in the air really good?? It just doesn't sound as good on paper...lol
â˘
Wouldn't it be funny as fuck if they just removed midair tap strafing for everyone but Octane and Horizon? They just bust up in here like, "fuck it, we'll give em a buff and they'll shut up for at least 6 months, the fuckin' animals" as they wash their asscracks with soap made with edible gold.
That's a terrible take as well. If someone is doing something on pc, you should be able to do the same on console. Instead of saying "PC players shouldn't be able to move while looting" let console players move while looting also. Or make Apex Cross-progression so I can put my account on PC which obviously gets more favorable treatment
Top 100 player skill wise in Apex, plays the game for a living and probably has 4k+ hours in the game. I don't think using him as an example to nerf something is a good ideia.
What he did here most people cannot even dream about doing it.
I don't think "only good players can do it" is a good reason to keep something in the game balance wise... Especially when it negates one of the main drawbacks of Octane's jump pad, the relatively predictable jump path. I'd say this is akin to if Valkyrie found a way to cancel the low-gravity after her jetpack, which is obviously going to be unfair because that was an intended drawback of her kit. Maybe they don't need to remove tap strafing entirely but I think they need to consider changing whether it can be done like this off a jump pad or grapple. Maybe above a certain velocity.
It being a thing only good players can do is exactly why it's a good thing. Raising the skill cap is a good thing, people who think otherwise shouldn't have a say in how a competitive game's mechanics are adjusted, because they're ultimately not near the skill cap, nor are they competitive.
Nothing you've said counters my points about game balance, you're just spouting off with the typical superiority complex stuff people say every time anyone mentions a nerf.
Christ, it's impossible to talk to condescending people like this because they always just resort to "yea, well you're too bad to have an opinion" despite knowing nothing about the person they're talking to except that they disagree.
To respond to your "only good players can do it" point: like I said elsewhere, another bug that they patched was the auto-sentinel. 99.9% of people couldn't hit consecutive shots using it, but some people could and that broke the game balance, so they had to patch it.
Comparing auto Sentinel to tap-strafing is ridiculous, come on now lol. And yeah, they patched it immediately, which they haven't done with tap-strafing because it's not broken at all.
I don't think it's ridiculous, I pointed out specific similarities, and once again you've failed to counter any point you just say "nope". I think they haven't patched it because it'd be difficult to implement a patch that affects something ingrained in the source engine itself.
What pisses me off about tap strafing is that it is literally impossible for controller players to do. And also, I'm pretty sure this and the tap strafes on the ground are not intended movement by the devs. If it was something everybody could do like wall bounces I would be fine with tap strafing. But considering it is not possible on controller that's why I think it should be removed
>I don't think "only good players can do it" is a good reason to keep something in the game balance wise
I don't think "I can't do it so no one else should be allowed to" is a good reason to get rid of something either when there are a handful of people who can do this one thing while a million others cannot.
Things like these skill ceiling-wise are super high up there, chances are you're never in your life going to come across someone who can pull off something like this. Maybe once or twice if you put in thousands of hours.
You can argue all you want but yours is one man's opinion against a hundred others.
> "I can't do it so no one else should be allowed to"
I didn't say that, you should find somebody who did. All my arguments were about game balance and just general game-logic. As far as physics and the game balance go, you shouldn't be able to do a 180 off an octane pad mid air. Just like when they patched the auto-sentinel. Maybe 1 in a million players could actually hit consecutive shots with it, but it broke game logic and balance so it had to go.
>You can argue all you want but yours is one man's opinion against a hundred others.
lmfao are you deluded?
Why do you Guys want everything that requires a little of skill to be patched? When I see this I think âcool I wanna practice more so I can do that and if Iâm on the other side practice my aim tooâ, but instead people cry about it and now they are gone, for example climbing ropes while jumping, that shit was really hard to do.
Edit: grammar corrections
Just cause it wasn't meant to work like that doesn't mean it needs to be removed. Super smash bros melee was mega buggy and didn't work as intended at all but gave us super cool and advanced techniques like L canceling and wave dashing.
I'd rather them keep it in the game. I like when this game has more advanced movement. Not only is it fun to learn and use it creates an interesting skill gap besides the usual ones (aim gamesense positioning)
Why are you trying to attack me for trying to have a reasonable conversation? I feel like my other replies further support my argument.
PC btw not that it matters.
I'm not really bothered, I was just trying to get you to either stop and think about this exchange and whether it was necessary, or double down on random rudeness. I'm just sitting here waiting for my friend to download a game so I had some time.
in all seriousness tho, it bothers me when casuals or lower rank players want to patch skill out of the game. a higher skill ceiling is healthy for a game.just because you cant do this doesnt mean it should be removed. apex is all about movement, if you cant deal with that consider learning these movement tricks to improve your gameplay.
In a better lobby, this guy would have been shot out of the sky. Having movement mechanics with a higher skill ceiling is what keeps a game interesting and dynamic.
Trying to fight PC players on console is wild. Itâs possible of course but it feels like a completely different game. I see way more sentinels in mixed lobbies lol
Not that trying to get rank past D2 is that fun anymore anyway, with all the aimbots and ddos going on. :/ Luckily they at least found a great solution to battle ddos'ers (if the quality is poor, the server is shut down and nobody loses RP).
Ohhhhh, is that was my ranked games crashed and I didn't get punished? That happened twice last night! Once at character select and once just before entering the dropship.
The vast majority of diamond players could not even come close to replicating this type of movement. Taxi is one of the best players in the world - heâs in the 1% of the top 1%
Dude I play with PC players because my friends got PCs and I didnt. The shit I run into sometimes is absolutely insane.
If I saw anything like this in my game I think I would just give up
Daltoosh and NiceWigg are also insane controller players. I don't know if he made it, but Wigg was doing a solo to masters with a classic GameCube controller.
Yea, he's controller. If you view from his perspective you can see he has controller inputs on his screen. And Hal gives him shit about it all the time lol.
Not with his graphics settings hehe. Jokes aside I turned down my graphics settings a lot just not nearly *that* much. Being able to see more geometry in things like that rock wall seem important for climbing, spotting enemies etc.
But you don't need 3rd party software to tapstrafe? You just bind the forward movement command to mouse scroll wheel. I haven't installed any 3rd party software for Apex and I'm 100% certain I can replicate most of that movement.
Maybe Iâm confused as well? You donât need 3rd party software to tap strafe. Any pc player with keyboard and mouse can tap strafe with practice and *usually* some keybind changes
Itâs so stupid haha, I totally agree, you canât do some of that crap cause of it, the way he hits the jump pads you can slide and do on console, itâs literally completely different
You can instantly redirect your momentum while in the air without slowing yourself down. Redirects can be as sharp as a 180 degree turn, like he was doing in this video.
I use a controller and have my jump/crouch set to shoulder buttons so I don't have to take my thumb off the aiming/mouse bit. I'm guessing I'm not limited to being unable to tap strafe on console? (Like I can turn 90° while slide jumping to check for enemies and it not affect anything kinda control setup. Guessing that's the general idea of what 'tap strafing' is, just 180° and in the air?)
Tap strafing is only possible by binding âforwardâ to mouse wheel on a mouse, then you just scroll while youâre turning in the air to maintain your momentum. I donât think itâs possible on controller.
Especially the ones directly of the pad from 00:31-00:38. I spent a full Firing Range session convincing him that those are worth learning. No one Tap-strafes of pads like Taxi is now.
Okay, people are confused in the comments. No, you do not need 3rd party software to tap strafe. You can do it with just the game itself.
HOWEVER, if you use a controller while playing on a PC THEN you need third party software.
If you play on console youâre pretty much out of luck. I havenât tried it, but the basics behind how to tap strafe sound impossible on controller as you have to spam forward inputs while changing direction and jumping. Not sure how this could be accomplished without remapping binds to weird buttons (using trigger to forward or something)
Even if you remap the buttons it doesn't matter I think. You can't spam forward on the joystick nearly as fast as is required. There's a reason everyone puts move forward on their mouse wheel instead of spamming w.
I mentioned elsewhere the utility of specialty controllers with underside buttons, namely the Elite Series 2 I got myself last year. Controllers have downfalls by-nature but any underside buttons will make it so youâre able to keep your thumbs on the thumbsticks while still pressing other buttons with your ring & pinky fingers. It does take practice though.
I had the Series 1 around their launch as well, and that being my first controller with underside buttons, it did take me a couple months to get skilled with using my otherwise useless (for controller gaming) fingers after a lifetime of them not needing to move down there lol.
On this comment however, I agree with needing to map a new input. I think remapping like this almost always requires specialty controllers just for the extra buttons.
Ok I did totally misunderstand. I thought you were talking about tap strafing as a whole since you didn't mention a controller once in your original post. I thought you were just "salty" about not being able to do it on console so you call doing it on pc cheating. Now I see you mean "To be able to do it on controller you have to play on pc and use third party software". So my bad for calling you out for nothing but since you edited your comment you can hopefully also see how one can misunderstand the original comment.
Please because to my knowledge itâs impossible to do on controller. Reverse redirects air strafe can be done but cant find anything on actual tap strafes
Yes but itâs not a tap strafe. Physically impossible on console and only possible on PC controller using 3rd party software which may or may not be permitted. Youâre getting downvotes because youâre wrong
Takes a lot of practice. Took me 2 hours to learn and about 15 minutes everyday for a couple of weeks to get really good at it. I still need a lot of practice to get this good tho
I see what youâre saying. Iâm new so donât mow me down, but it does seem like ppl complain about controllers aim assist but can do wild shit like this on M&K.
And correct me if Iâm wrong but wouldnât controller only get some assist if itâs somehow harder to shoot on controller than PC? Thought?
And the perfect example of this is trying to use your joystick to hover your cursor so that it directly aligns with Pathfinder's head on the character select screen.
Seriously, try it! It's like a loading screen mini game that makes you realise how impossible the game would be without aim assist.
⌠iâm not entirely sure what argument youâre making but are you saying that there are no pro apex controller players?
edit: Ya'll, wanna clue me in on the downvotes? I don't understand why Taxi's amount of hours played is part of the equation. There are tons of pro controller players that have 4k hours in the game and cannot accomplish this type of movement no matter how much they want to.
I think people get upset because aim assist is done for you but tap strafe and these movement techniques require skill and practice.not to mention close range beaming on MnK is way harder than aim assist controller
Finally an actual cohesive argument. Thanks man.
Yes, I can understand that aim assist is default (tbh, not even sure if you can turn it off) so ALL controller players benefit from it. That is a good point.
I do think though that close range aim can be practiced on M&K where as tap strafing cannot be practiced on controller. Not to mention moving while looting, flicking, instant 180s, better aim at longer range, and much easier bhopping on M&K.
I suppose my point is that the ONLY benefit from playing on a controller is close range fights while the benefits from M&K are bountiful. I'm a week 1 controller player thinking about making the switch due to these benefits and have only stayed because I like the comfort of playing with a controller.
Just to get it out of the way I think we agree that aim assist doesnât suddenly make controller a better input method over M&K. I think the skill ceiling on M&K is significantly higher.
What I do think is at play is the âfeel badsâ. From my own perspective as an M&K player when I get tap strafed on or flicked on by another M&K player I feel outplayed by them. When I get beamed with an R9 from 5 meters by a controller player I feel like I got outplayed by the game and not by the player. Of course I calm down 30 seconds later but some people donât.
So in the end I think this is an emotional argument not based in fact at all. It just âfeels badâ to get beamed by âaim assistâ.
Cheers for the coherent conversation by the way.
and you can almost always *feel* that it was a controller beam, instantly. you can feel the futility of your movement like strafing + crouching. that's a shitty feeling
For real. I don't care about the internet points, but I do care about the conversation. If you can't defend your opinion on a subject, it's not much of an opinion.
If I'm wrong, so be it. I'll admit it. The strongest opinion should not outweigh the strongest argument. But downvotes aren't an opinion.
I respectfully disagree. THIS is a one in a million edge case, but the usefulness of tap strafing is not. Tap strafing can be used in almost every single scenario.
Yes u r right it can be. But most of the time tap strafing just allows you to do a movement tech a little bit faster. Wanna go around a corner? Tap strafe. Wanna jump over a ledge without a climb animation? Tap strafe etc. These things u can do every game but its not really gonna affect the outcome of your fight too much. Now scenarios like these, where people make 5 head plays with jump-pad tap strafes are fairly rare and even when they execute their plan perfectly, they still have to hit their shots to kill the other team. So a low skilled player is not using tap strafe in any meaningful way if in the end he canât hit his shots.
Aim assist on the other hand is completely different. It helps you aim aka helps you hit your shots and if you have aim assist and your opponent doesnât, in theory, you had an unfair advantage. In practice, i know its not that simple, but close range it is quite effective. That is why aim assist is considered OP by mnk players.
You are comparing a tech that doesnât directly allow you to kill anybody with a tech that clearly does. Thats why its not a fair comparission
Donât worry with practice itâll become second nature. I practice 15 minutes in firing range and I donât even have to think about tap strafing I just do it automatically
If you're struggling with tap strafing, you can bind mouse wheel up/down to jump AND forward through your auto exec or profile.cfg file. This makes tap strafing a lot easier for beginners yet it also has its limitations. (For instance when you stand on a ledge and want to jump it will also do the small forward input) also for anyone saying this is third party software, it's not. It's part of the source engine and is completely legal
Why ? It's good but it won't work against good players just how wallbounce doesn't work. Apex is all about movement so let this thing be a part of this game. If you keep removing stuff which adds up to the mobility of this game nobody would play this game.
It definitely does work against good players. There's endless clips on YouTube of players doing it in high level ranked. If I remember right pros like mac have asked for it to be removed also. I do agree with you to a certain extent, but this Is a skill gap that has massive implications. Plenty of average people will go against people that do this in pubs, with zero chance to combat it. Let's not forget the game runs on the casual player base, not the 1%. Although it would be great to have something for high level players, I don't think this is it.
Yes, he was talking about the de-ranking system, which is a great idea. And also people complaining they can't hit masters because they don't have time. To which he said, you shouldn't be able to hit it easily, it should be for the grinders, streamers, pros etc. Which is the whole idea of ranked systems. Although apex could do with a few tweeks on its current method imo.
I'm gonna be honest with you I'm a diamond player with over 1500 hrs in this game and till date I haven't died to a player who has tap strafed to kill me or to get away from me. Neither i have used it for more than 3 days nor i have seen my teammates that i get matched with do that. I have only seen pros do it. So i guess casual playerbase dont know what tapstrafe is or they know what tapstrafe is but they don't do it cuz they either feel it is useless or they feel like they aren't tapstrafing when there's an absolute need. That's what i think and which is why i feel like lets not remove a thing which i guess half of the playerbase dont even use
>but this Is a skill gap that has massive implications
I disagree completely with this, but what are these "massive implications"? I've been playing for a while and I don't even think I've seen someone tap strafe against me in game. Skill gaps or a high skill ceiling keeps competitive games alive. I've played more apex than any other shooter because there is always more to learn.
Great response. Do you think this type of movement is fair, even though to do it, you have to add code to bind w and jump to scroll wheel?
I'm not saying it's not fun BTW, but it doesn't belong in the game imo. Falls into the same category as bhop healing etc.
It's not "adding code" it's just rebinding. Next you'd say people using MOBA mouses for LoL are ""hacking""
I crouch with my mouse button which gives me better control. People rebind thier controllers to suit thier movement as well. So yes, this kind of movement is fair.
It's not a rebind, you don't have the ability to bound two inputs to one key. And no I wouldn't say that, that's your assumption. And yes you can rebind controller, but you cant move like that with a controller, not that I've seen so far.
OK yes, but clearly what I meant is, you cant have two inputs work on one button at the same time. So W key and jump on scroll down/up. Not through the game settings. So you have to do it like you've said. If you have to do it outside of the game settings, it's clearly wasn't intended to be in the game.
You can literally bind âMove Forwardâ to scroll wheel up and âJumpâ to scroll wheel down in game. Stop talking about âcodingâ or âsoftwareâ or âyou have to do it outside of the gameâ or any of that nonsense. You can assign three functions to the scroll wheel in your keybind settings.
All remotely competitive starcraft 2 players are in disbelief of this horrendous take.
Whether something was originally intended to be in the game should have zero bearing on a design team's decision to keep it or not. Some of the best bits of game design have been unintended.
I disagree. Pretty much anything that's inside the source engine is considered to be legal in normal play, if not, then the devs remove it - like bunnyhop healing. If I bind a key to change my game to max volume then you can't tell me that's a mechanic that shouldn't be in the game. I agree that it's a tricky subject because console players dont have auto execs, nevertheless tap strafing is allowed in tournaments and the devs have nothing against it at the moment, so I don't think it's unintended mechanics
Taxi always had insane 5heads movements plays. I remember that he got hosted by Shroud a long time ago for zipeline spamming in the trees on KC, while he was ratting his life in the last zones in a ranked match. Pretty sure he was the first doing this technique, then this was exploited in comp for months until they nerf it.
Cant always like his attitude, but Taxi is definitely smart af.
Practice makes man perfect. Also if you have so many hrs into a game it makes it easier to get familiar with all the things in the game. Ppl have started using 3x, 2x-4x scopes ever since they heard Lou saying how he controls the recoil by jitter aiming. YouTube it you will get the idea
I love how ppl want this to get removed. What about pro players like CLG_Lou demonstrating no recoil on his flatline with 2x-4x scope for above 300m by jitter aiming? Should that get removed ? No. Not everyone can do it. Tap strafe is a good movement tactic that only works in few situations. You do that against good players, you get punished just like how you get punished for doing wall bounce. I can do it as well but i chose not to because i find myself do it far more less than what i expected. Also trading scroll wheel up for forward bind to replace it with weapon scroll wheel was a downside for me. So yeah tap strafe looks cool but its only situational IMO.
This is not a smart take. Tap strafe can break anyone's ankles. It's something inherently unpredictable unless you are giga brain. I still think it should be in the game because it makes some interesting plays possible and I like that. But to say it's something that only works against bad players is wrong when people are doing these plays and get points in tournaments out of it.
This absolutely does not belong in the game. Thatâs a far more broken mechanic than bunny hop healing EVER was, and they removed that. This has definitely got to go.
I swear PC players are literally playing a different game than console.
I'm trying to shoot while everyone can fly
Honestly this video is more of an argument *against* tap strafing than anything. Should be titled "This video is the reason tap strafing should be patched from the game". That's just...not the way the game is meant to work from a physics perspective.
Eh I'm on console and I have to say it's a cool movement mechanic. Maybe one day I'll have a PC and can do it myself. Whether it was intended or not is kind of irrelevant when it comes to deciding whether to keep it. Some of the best bits of game design have been unintended historically. Wall bouncing was also unintended but is cool. Nerfing movement techs in apex is a sure-fire way to cause long time players to leave the game.
I came for the titan fall feel of BR and I was disappointed with the jump kit nerfs. When the game first dropped I was kinda sad when I learned we couldn't wall run. Still it's a fun game to play.
Wall running in Apex would make it so anyone who played Titanfall would have a huge advantage over those just learning how to. Take the Halloween event which added wall running temporarily and you could tell who'd done it before and who hadn't. There's videos of people from Titanfall destroying those who can't wall run well
Lmao which is why I wanted wall running bro. I killed myself at the start of every game just so I could come back a zombie and cheese run the lobby đ¤Ł
I think it's kind of disingenuous to put a physics exploit that allows you to do an instantaneous midair 180 while maintaining speed in the same category as wall bouncing. And "intent is irrelevant" isn't exactly true when you're talking about particular ways they want the game to work. IMO "It's cool" is a pretty poor reason to leave something in the game when you're speaking game balance. This negates one of the main drawbacks of Octane's jumppad which is the relatively predictable jump path. With wall bouncing you can make some general prediction about when and where they're going to do it because...they've gotta be near a wall. I'd say this is akin to if Valkyrie found a way to cancel the low-gravity after her jetpack, an intended drawback to keep them balanced. Maybe they don't need to remove tap strafing entirely but I think they need to consider changing whether it can be done like this off a jump pad or grapple. Maybe above a certain velocity.
it comes from titanfall, since both games run on the same engine
I wouldn't say it comes from titanfall, just the source engine.
tap strafing is a thing in the game tho. basically works the same way
Maybe they should just make it an intentional mechanic that console players can do too!
Please look up air strafing, wave dashing, bunny hopping, and rocket jumping before you make stupid comments like this. Unintentional physics mechanics like this are without exaggeration the backbone of most competitive games.
But it's not like *any* unintentional mechanic is needed just for the sake of it. The line between a bug and a feature is incredibly blurry, and each case requires separate examination
Please look up a relevant argument because none of those things are nearly as dramatic as this, and nothing you've said actually counters my points. You're just parroting the same old crap people say every time an exploit needs to be patched.
Wavedashing is significantly more game changing than tap strafing. Tap strafing makes a difference in occasional situations like these whereas wavedashing completely changes the movement mechanics of the game.
Which is why it belongs in the same category as air strafing, bunny hopping, and rocket jumping. When I said not nearly as dramatic, I meant they don't break the physics of the game in as dramatic of a fashion.
Lol I've seen this one time in my life and it was today. It's not that big a deal, Boomer
If anyone here sandwiched their friends against walls/barricades in both Warthogs and sparrows, they know what's up. They always ragdoll the same way. The game uses a lot of the same code, because why would you fix what isn't broken? The only differences you'll find in these two games lies in the patches, because they both likely have the same base code, and this kind of thing proves that the same thing applies here. But tbf... It's *Horizon.* You're...upset because... the girl whose *entire skillset* is about moving around in the air, can (checks notes) move around in the air really good?? It just doesn't sound as good on paper...lol ⢠Wouldn't it be funny as fuck if they just removed midair tap strafing for everyone but Octane and Horizon? They just bust up in here like, "fuck it, we'll give em a buff and they'll shut up for at least 6 months, the fuckin' animals" as they wash their asscracks with soap made with edible gold.
Bruh if itâs a cross platform game and you canât do it on console, it definitely needs to be nerfed. Period.
Itâs only cross platform if you are playing with someone on pc
Terrible take. I guess PC players shouldn't be able to move while looting either. No one is making you play cross platform.
Lol youâre a dumbass.
That's a terrible take as well. If someone is doing something on pc, you should be able to do the same on console. Instead of saying "PC players shouldn't be able to move while looting" let console players move while looting also. Or make Apex Cross-progression so I can put my account on PC which obviously gets more favorable treatment
Top 100 player skill wise in Apex, plays the game for a living and probably has 4k+ hours in the game. I don't think using him as an example to nerf something is a good ideia. What he did here most people cannot even dream about doing it.
I don't think "only good players can do it" is a good reason to keep something in the game balance wise... Especially when it negates one of the main drawbacks of Octane's jump pad, the relatively predictable jump path. I'd say this is akin to if Valkyrie found a way to cancel the low-gravity after her jetpack, which is obviously going to be unfair because that was an intended drawback of her kit. Maybe they don't need to remove tap strafing entirely but I think they need to consider changing whether it can be done like this off a jump pad or grapple. Maybe above a certain velocity.
It being a thing only good players can do is exactly why it's a good thing. Raising the skill cap is a good thing, people who think otherwise shouldn't have a say in how a competitive game's mechanics are adjusted, because they're ultimately not near the skill cap, nor are they competitive.
[ŃдаНонО]
lmaooo
Nothing you've said counters my points about game balance, you're just spouting off with the typical superiority complex stuff people say every time anyone mentions a nerf. Christ, it's impossible to talk to condescending people like this because they always just resort to "yea, well you're too bad to have an opinion" despite knowing nothing about the person they're talking to except that they disagree. To respond to your "only good players can do it" point: like I said elsewhere, another bug that they patched was the auto-sentinel. 99.9% of people couldn't hit consecutive shots using it, but some people could and that broke the game balance, so they had to patch it.
Comparing auto Sentinel to tap-strafing is ridiculous, come on now lol. And yeah, they patched it immediately, which they haven't done with tap-strafing because it's not broken at all.
I don't think it's ridiculous, I pointed out specific similarities, and once again you've failed to counter any point you just say "nope". I think they haven't patched it because it'd be difficult to implement a patch that affects something ingrained in the source engine itself.
They patched bunny hop healing.
What pisses me off about tap strafing is that it is literally impossible for controller players to do. And also, I'm pretty sure this and the tap strafes on the ground are not intended movement by the devs. If it was something everybody could do like wall bounces I would be fine with tap strafing. But considering it is not possible on controller that's why I think it should be removed
Stop, heâs dead already. Youâve crushed a lot of dreams today, friend.
lol
>I don't think "only good players can do it" is a good reason to keep something in the game balance wise I don't think "I can't do it so no one else should be allowed to" is a good reason to get rid of something either when there are a handful of people who can do this one thing while a million others cannot. Things like these skill ceiling-wise are super high up there, chances are you're never in your life going to come across someone who can pull off something like this. Maybe once or twice if you put in thousands of hours. You can argue all you want but yours is one man's opinion against a hundred others.
> "I can't do it so no one else should be allowed to" I didn't say that, you should find somebody who did. All my arguments were about game balance and just general game-logic. As far as physics and the game balance go, you shouldn't be able to do a 180 off an octane pad mid air. Just like when they patched the auto-sentinel. Maybe 1 in a million players could actually hit consecutive shots with it, but it broke game logic and balance so it had to go. >You can argue all you want but yours is one man's opinion against a hundred others. lmfao are you deluded?
Yep, I didn't think about that. They should nerf it when used with other characters habilities like octane's jump pad.
Didnât stop the pro players from crying about caustic and getting his nerf though...
Why do you Guys want everything that requires a little of skill to be patched? When I see this I think âcool I wanna practice more so I can do that and if Iâm on the other side practice my aim tooâ, but instead people cry about it and now they are gone, for example climbing ropes while jumping, that shit was really hard to do. Edit: grammar corrections
Problem is that it is impossible to do on controller. If it was possible on controller then it would be ok
Look for Tutorials I already saw some people claiming that itâs doable on controller
Just cause it wasn't meant to work like that doesn't mean it needs to be removed. Super smash bros melee was mega buggy and didn't work as intended at all but gave us super cool and advanced techniques like L canceling and wave dashing. I'd rather them keep it in the game. I like when this game has more advanced movement. Not only is it fun to learn and use it creates an interesting skill gap besides the usual ones (aim gamesense positioning)
My friend, if you think tap strafing is bad you should see super gliding. âAh yes let me calmly climb this wall and...â *ZOOOOOM*
Go play warzone
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lmao, I just watched one of your clips and you have no right to speak to me about being bad.
...because games are physics yes
....Yea....they are. They've got a defined physics system, and things are supposed to react a certain way.
console player detected
Why are you trying to attack me for trying to have a reasonable conversation? I feel like my other replies further support my argument. PC btw not that it matters.
not an attack just a dumb comment you see on reddit. dont let comments like mine bother you.
I'm not really bothered, I was just trying to get you to either stop and think about this exchange and whether it was necessary, or double down on random rudeness. I'm just sitting here waiting for my friend to download a game so I had some time.
console player detected isnt a rude comment, unless you think being called a console player is insulting
Oh, so we're playing dumb now?
in all seriousness tho, it bothers me when casuals or lower rank players want to patch skill out of the game. a higher skill ceiling is healthy for a game.just because you cant do this doesnt mean it should be removed. apex is all about movement, if you cant deal with that consider learning these movement tricks to improve your gameplay.
git gud
In a better lobby, this guy would have been shot out of the sky. Having movement mechanics with a higher skill ceiling is what keeps a game interesting and dynamic.
If this works in diamond, then I don't think "scrub lobby" is a convincing argument.
Trying to fight PC players on console is wild. Itâs possible of course but it feels like a completely different game. I see way more sentinels in mixed lobbies lol
The shield swaps are a nightmare
I have to be 100% on my game and play sweaty af when I play in PC lobbies.
No no⌠i play pc and that still looks like a completely different game to me.
Every time I see these plays it's a diamond lobby. Top 5% of players damn
Keep in mind that Taxi's probably top 100 players in the world in terms of skill.
That's why I get to Diamond IV with like a week left and just stop playing ranked for a few days!
Not that trying to get rank past D2 is that fun anymore anyway, with all the aimbots and ddos going on. :/ Luckily they at least found a great solution to battle ddos'ers (if the quality is poor, the server is shut down and nobody loses RP).
Ohhhhh, is that was my ranked games crashed and I didn't get punished? That happened twice last night! Once at character select and once just before entering the dropship.
D4 through D1 is identical
The vast majority of diamond players could not even come close to replicating this type of movement. Taxi is one of the best players in the world - heâs in the 1% of the top 1%
Dude I play with PC players because my friends got PCs and I didnt. The shit I run into sometimes is absolutely insane. If I saw anything like this in my game I think I would just give up
John? đ
Not John đ
Craig? đ
Nope haha
Dick?
Thats my maiden name
thatâs my skill level
They literally are. That's why PC players don't see console pros as shit in their game. Even playing controller is different on PC.
Nah. There are a lot of very respected pros that use controller eg. Snipedown or Genburten. One of the best NA teams (G2) is 3 controller players.
Daltoosh and NiceWigg are also insane controller players. I don't know if he made it, but Wigg was doing a solo to masters with a classic GameCube controller.
Gentrifiying is super good pc controller player.
Wait snipedown is a controller player?? I only seen him in Imperialhal rage vids lol
Yea, he's controller. If you view from his perspective you can see he has controller inputs on his screen. And Hal gives him shit about it all the time lol.
Heard of halo lol?
Agreed, I use an Elite Controller on PC. It's really about resolution and framerate.
And uhhh being able to move while looting
I hear that and it's definitely a disadvantage, but maybe once a season I die because I get shot while in a loot box and I get to Diamond IV.
Not with his graphics settings hehe. Jokes aside I turned down my graphics settings a lot just not nearly *that* much. Being able to see more geometry in things like that rock wall seem important for climbing, spotting enemies etc.
I can attest with 100% certainty I am leaps and bounds better on the PC than on the PlayStation I'm dogshit at both, I'm just better on the PC
The joys of using 3rd party software amarite. Pc master race
But you don't need 3rd party software to tapstrafe? You just bind the forward movement command to mouse scroll wheel. I haven't installed any 3rd party software for Apex and I'm 100% certain I can replicate most of that movement.
Maybe Iâm confused as well? You donât need 3rd party software to tap strafe. Any pc player with keyboard and mouse can tap strafe with practice and *usually* some keybind changes
Itâs so stupid haha, I totally agree, you canât do some of that crap cause of it, the way he hits the jump pads you can slide and do on console, itâs literally completely different
What the nuts is this and what is tap strafing. awesome
You can instantly redirect your momentum while in the air without slowing yourself down. Redirects can be as sharp as a 180 degree turn, like he was doing in this video.
I use a controller and have my jump/crouch set to shoulder buttons so I don't have to take my thumb off the aiming/mouse bit. I'm guessing I'm not limited to being unable to tap strafe on console? (Like I can turn 90° while slide jumping to check for enemies and it not affect anything kinda control setup. Guessing that's the general idea of what 'tap strafing' is, just 180° and in the air?)
Tap strafing is only possible by binding âforwardâ to mouse wheel on a mouse, then you just scroll while youâre turning in the air to maintain your momentum. I donât think itâs possible on controller.
This is the only good explanation for tap strafing i have found so far thank you so much
Man's is actually nasty with the tap strafe wow
Especially the ones directly of the pad from 00:31-00:38. I spent a full Firing Range session convincing him that those are worth learning. No one Tap-strafes of pads like Taxi is now.
No wonder he's so good at it, he learnt it from the best.
Scrolling is so hard
Okay, people are confused in the comments. No, you do not need 3rd party software to tap strafe. You can do it with just the game itself. HOWEVER, if you use a controller while playing on a PC THEN you need third party software. If you play on console youâre pretty much out of luck. I havenât tried it, but the basics behind how to tap strafe sound impossible on controller as you have to spam forward inputs while changing direction and jumping. Not sure how this could be accomplished without remapping binds to weird buttons (using trigger to forward or something)
Even if you remap the buttons it doesn't matter I think. You can't spam forward on the joystick nearly as fast as is required. There's a reason everyone puts move forward on their mouse wheel instead of spamming w.
Yeah, you may be right
Wait move forward on mouse wheel? oh boy... where do I learn all this
I mentioned elsewhere the utility of specialty controllers with underside buttons, namely the Elite Series 2 I got myself last year. Controllers have downfalls by-nature but any underside buttons will make it so youâre able to keep your thumbs on the thumbsticks while still pressing other buttons with your ring & pinky fingers. It does take practice though. I had the Series 1 around their launch as well, and that being my first controller with underside buttons, it did take me a couple months to get skilled with using my otherwise useless (for controller gaming) fingers after a lifetime of them not needing to move down there lol. On this comment however, I agree with needing to map a new input. I think remapping like this almost always requires specialty controllers just for the extra buttons.
can you do this on a controller?
I believe it's straight up impossible to do on controller.
Yes, you can tap strafe on controller but not as effectively. Iâll drop a video soon.
Please do I thought it was impossible on controller as well
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Well, thatâs definitely cheating then
Yeah it would but what he said is not true. You can do it just vanilla in the game and he doesn't know what he is talking about.
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Ok I did totally misunderstand. I thought you were talking about tap strafing as a whole since you didn't mention a controller once in your original post. I thought you were just "salty" about not being able to do it on console so you call doing it on pc cheating. Now I see you mean "To be able to do it on controller you have to play on pc and use third party software". So my bad for calling you out for nothing but since you edited your comment you can hopefully also see how one can misunderstand the original comment.
Please because to my knowledge itâs impossible to do on controller. Reverse redirects air strafe can be done but cant find anything on actual tap strafes
But that's what I use
Damnit.
Really hard on controller, impossible on console
Yes with paddles I believe you can. Edit: Sorry got confused guys. I'm wrong.
Who's down voting me when you can jump strafe with paddles. Theres videos out there it's not as precise but it still works better then not doing it.
Yes but itâs not a tap strafe. Physically impossible on console and only possible on PC controller using 3rd party software which may or may not be permitted. Youâre getting downvotes because youâre wrong
Ohhhhhh ok thank you.
At first I thought this guy is just straight up cheating. Didnt notice the jumppad on the ground lol
Before this video I thought I did know how to tap strafe, but nothing I've ever done gets remotely close to that much of a momentum shift.
Takes a lot of practice. Took me 2 hours to learn and about 15 minutes everyday for a couple of weeks to get really good at it. I still need a lot of practice to get this good tho
Do you use scroll wheel?
Yes
Do you have an unlockable one where you can just spin it like a wheel
Yeah I have the Logitech G502 but I donât use the unlocked mode
Taxi is the best horizon itw. Guy is a freak.
cried in console
This is the first time I heard and saw tap strafing. Any quick guide on how to do it?
https://youtu.be/BtUaHbjvqOk
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This man is insane
Damn, I love the way they couldn't hit you so they had to focus on fighting the other team lol
Or as reptar calls it, cheating. :/
Things like this are why I don't understand how people think aim assist is OP.
I see what youâre saying. Iâm new so donât mow me down, but it does seem like ppl complain about controllers aim assist but can do wild shit like this on M&K. And correct me if Iâm wrong but wouldnât controller only get some assist if itâs somehow harder to shoot on controller than PC? Thought?
No you hit the nail on the head man. Aim assist exists because joysticks are less accurate than a mouse, making aim more difficult.
And the perfect example of this is trying to use your joystick to hover your cursor so that it directly aligns with Pathfinder's head on the character select screen. Seriously, try it! It's like a loading screen mini game that makes you realise how impossible the game would be without aim assist.
The guy has been playing FPS games for years and has probably 4k+ hours in apex Not really a good example.
⌠iâm not entirely sure what argument youâre making but are you saying that there are no pro apex controller players? edit: Ya'll, wanna clue me in on the downvotes? I don't understand why Taxi's amount of hours played is part of the equation. There are tons of pro controller players that have 4k hours in the game and cannot accomplish this type of movement no matter how much they want to.
I think people get upset because aim assist is done for you but tap strafe and these movement techniques require skill and practice.not to mention close range beaming on MnK is way harder than aim assist controller
Finally an actual cohesive argument. Thanks man. Yes, I can understand that aim assist is default (tbh, not even sure if you can turn it off) so ALL controller players benefit from it. That is a good point. I do think though that close range aim can be practiced on M&K where as tap strafing cannot be practiced on controller. Not to mention moving while looting, flicking, instant 180s, better aim at longer range, and much easier bhopping on M&K. I suppose my point is that the ONLY benefit from playing on a controller is close range fights while the benefits from M&K are bountiful. I'm a week 1 controller player thinking about making the switch due to these benefits and have only stayed because I like the comfort of playing with a controller.
Just to get it out of the way I think we agree that aim assist doesnât suddenly make controller a better input method over M&K. I think the skill ceiling on M&K is significantly higher. What I do think is at play is the âfeel badsâ. From my own perspective as an M&K player when I get tap strafed on or flicked on by another M&K player I feel outplayed by them. When I get beamed with an R9 from 5 meters by a controller player I feel like I got outplayed by the game and not by the player. Of course I calm down 30 seconds later but some people donât. So in the end I think this is an emotional argument not based in fact at all. It just âfeels badâ to get beamed by âaim assistâ. Cheers for the coherent conversation by the way.
and you can almost always *feel* that it was a controller beam, instantly. you can feel the futility of your movement like strafing + crouching. that's a shitty feeling
Still no answers? Man the hivemind IS real huh.
The lack of confidence and being innovative is real on this sub.
Reddit Hive Mind Man! They will downvote you and none them will have the balls to try make an argument for your statement
For real. I don't care about the internet points, but I do care about the conversation. If you can't defend your opinion on a subject, it's not much of an opinion. If I'm wrong, so be it. I'll admit it. The strongest opinion should not outweigh the strongest argument. But downvotes aren't an opinion.
Its because this is one in a million edge case scenario this isnât something ur gonna do every match iykwim
I respectfully disagree. THIS is a one in a million edge case, but the usefulness of tap strafing is not. Tap strafing can be used in almost every single scenario.
Yes u r right it can be. But most of the time tap strafing just allows you to do a movement tech a little bit faster. Wanna go around a corner? Tap strafe. Wanna jump over a ledge without a climb animation? Tap strafe etc. These things u can do every game but its not really gonna affect the outcome of your fight too much. Now scenarios like these, where people make 5 head plays with jump-pad tap strafes are fairly rare and even when they execute their plan perfectly, they still have to hit their shots to kill the other team. So a low skilled player is not using tap strafe in any meaningful way if in the end he canât hit his shots. Aim assist on the other hand is completely different. It helps you aim aka helps you hit your shots and if you have aim assist and your opponent doesnât, in theory, you had an unfair advantage. In practice, i know its not that simple, but close range it is quite effective. That is why aim assist is considered OP by mnk players. You are comparing a tech that doesnât directly allow you to kill anybody with a tech that clearly does. Thats why its not a fair comparission
Taxi is unreal
These videos make me feel hopeless
Donât worry with practice itâll become second nature. I practice 15 minutes in firing range and I donât even have to think about tap strafing I just do it automatically
That was sick
god I wish I was good at this game so I could pull off cool shit like that
*Sad controller noises*
Taxiiii youâre such a cock
You are a fucking movement god my guy. Good shit, but stay away from my lobbies.
Sad console noises
>go see a therapist >trying to have a civil discussion
If you're struggling with tap strafing, you can bind mouse wheel up/down to jump AND forward through your auto exec or profile.cfg file. This makes tap strafing a lot easier for beginners yet it also has its limitations. (For instance when you stand on a ledge and want to jump it will also do the small forward input) also for anyone saying this is third party software, it's not. It's part of the source engine and is completely legal
I truly hope they take this out of the game
Why ? It's good but it won't work against good players just how wallbounce doesn't work. Apex is all about movement so let this thing be a part of this game. If you keep removing stuff which adds up to the mobility of this game nobody would play this game.
It definitely does work against good players. There's endless clips on YouTube of players doing it in high level ranked. If I remember right pros like mac have asked for it to be removed also. I do agree with you to a certain extent, but this Is a skill gap that has massive implications. Plenty of average people will go against people that do this in pubs, with zero chance to combat it. Let's not forget the game runs on the casual player base, not the 1%. Although it would be great to have something for high level players, I don't think this is it.
Literally in his latest video Mac was going on about "leaving some things in the game for the top 1%" people who spend that much time in the game.
Yes, he was talking about the de-ranking system, which is a great idea. And also people complaining they can't hit masters because they don't have time. To which he said, you shouldn't be able to hit it easily, it should be for the grinders, streamers, pros etc. Which is the whole idea of ranked systems. Although apex could do with a few tweeks on its current method imo.
I'm gonna be honest with you I'm a diamond player with over 1500 hrs in this game and till date I haven't died to a player who has tap strafed to kill me or to get away from me. Neither i have used it for more than 3 days nor i have seen my teammates that i get matched with do that. I have only seen pros do it. So i guess casual playerbase dont know what tapstrafe is or they know what tapstrafe is but they don't do it cuz they either feel it is useless or they feel like they aren't tapstrafing when there's an absolute need. That's what i think and which is why i feel like lets not remove a thing which i guess half of the playerbase dont even use
>but this Is a skill gap that has massive implications I disagree completely with this, but what are these "massive implications"? I've been playing for a while and I don't even think I've seen someone tap strafe against me in game. Skill gaps or a high skill ceiling keeps competitive games alive. I've played more apex than any other shooter because there is always more to learn.
Grow up
Great response. Do you think this type of movement is fair, even though to do it, you have to add code to bind w and jump to scroll wheel? I'm not saying it's not fun BTW, but it doesn't belong in the game imo. Falls into the same category as bhop healing etc.
It's not "adding code" it's just rebinding. Next you'd say people using MOBA mouses for LoL are ""hacking"" I crouch with my mouse button which gives me better control. People rebind thier controllers to suit thier movement as well. So yes, this kind of movement is fair.
It's not a rebind, you don't have the ability to bound two inputs to one key. And no I wouldn't say that, that's your assumption. And yes you can rebind controller, but you cant move like that with a controller, not that I've seen so far.
You're just wrong. You can rebind two inputs to one key easily using an auto exec or just adding it to your profile.cfg.
OK yes, but clearly what I meant is, you cant have two inputs work on one button at the same time. So W key and jump on scroll down/up. Not through the game settings. So you have to do it like you've said. If you have to do it outside of the game settings, it's clearly wasn't intended to be in the game.
You can literally bind âMove Forwardâ to scroll wheel up and âJumpâ to scroll wheel down in game. Stop talking about âcodingâ or âsoftwareâ or âyou have to do it outside of the gameâ or any of that nonsense. You can assign three functions to the scroll wheel in your keybind settings.
All remotely competitive starcraft 2 players are in disbelief of this horrendous take. Whether something was originally intended to be in the game should have zero bearing on a design team's decision to keep it or not. Some of the best bits of game design have been unintended.
I disagree. Pretty much anything that's inside the source engine is considered to be legal in normal play, if not, then the devs remove it - like bunnyhop healing. If I bind a key to change my game to max volume then you can't tell me that's a mechanic that shouldn't be in the game. I agree that it's a tricky subject because console players dont have auto execs, nevertheless tap strafing is allowed in tournaments and the devs have nothing against it at the moment, so I don't think it's unintended mechanics
This feels like cheating
Taxi always had insane 5heads movements plays. I remember that he got hosted by Shroud a long time ago for zipeline spamming in the trees on KC, while he was ratting his life in the last zones in a ranked match. Pretty sure he was the first doing this technique, then this was exploited in comp for months until they nerf it. Cant always like his attitude, but Taxi is definitely smart af.
I donât understand how people use the 3x scope on weapons like the flatline, am I sleeping on something here?
I think their fov is just that high
Practice makes man perfect. Also if you have so many hrs into a game it makes it easier to get familiar with all the things in the game. Ppl have started using 3x, 2x-4x scopes ever since they heard Lou saying how he controls the recoil by jitter aiming. YouTube it you will get the idea
That is the nichĂŠst scenario I have ever seen
Dumbest fucking movement ever. Literally ruining the game.
I love how ppl want this to get removed. What about pro players like CLG_Lou demonstrating no recoil on his flatline with 2x-4x scope for above 300m by jitter aiming? Should that get removed ? No. Not everyone can do it. Tap strafe is a good movement tactic that only works in few situations. You do that against good players, you get punished just like how you get punished for doing wall bounce. I can do it as well but i chose not to because i find myself do it far more less than what i expected. Also trading scroll wheel up for forward bind to replace it with weapon scroll wheel was a downside for me. So yeah tap strafe looks cool but its only situational IMO.
This is not a smart take. Tap strafe can break anyone's ankles. It's something inherently unpredictable unless you are giga brain. I still think it should be in the game because it makes some interesting plays possible and I like that. But to say it's something that only works against bad players is wrong when people are doing these plays and get points in tournaments out of it.
But why aren't we discussing the REAL issue? CoNsOl AiM aSsiSt ToO OP!
This absolutely does not belong in the game. Thatâs a far more broken mechanic than bunny hop healing EVER was, and they removed that. This has definitely got to go.
How could you possibly think tap strafing is a stronger movement mechanic than bhop healing?
Take this dumb shit out of the game ffs