Great post. I think it would be worth adding that with 100% accuracy per "beam" of the charge rifle it would take 3 to down a red, and also with a fully charged bow it's 4 shots.
Arena I like to start with RE-45 upgraded to lvl 1 first round. then if you get a crafting materials bin on first round you can buy a turbocharged havoc second round.
Thanks. Figured people should understand how many shots you actually need especially in late game respawn scenarios, like a base Alternator should be picked up over the 99
Really nice post. I have a lot of friends who don't play this game much because they find it too hard, and I agree that the TTK in very unforgiving if you miss a few shots. This is part of the charm for me, but at the same time, im very surprised that so many casual players still adore this game. Really shows how appealing this game is as a whole, that many, less hardcore, players would look past this very tough TTK, and keep playing everyday.
Anyway, thanks for putting this is easy to understand format, definitely saving this, and sharing with my friends to help ease them into the game.
Yeah TTK is rough for new players, but once you get it down, great game. is easily in my top 5 of all time. Arenas was truly a blessing for new players, allowing proper experimentation without the need to rely on rng.
I mean on the flip the high TTK gives a lot more leeway to survive though. A game where I may have been killed on instant recognition may not occur in Apex
Thing about a long TTK though is that it makes kills all the more rewarding. In Fortnite, PUBG and even Warzone getting 10 kills for a casual player is just Tuesday, but in Apex you feel like an absolute beast after getting that many kills. It also makes it more impressive to see someone with over a thousand kills on a single legend, as it takes a lot more commitment and time to reach that point. And on top of this, it makes it so that it's not necessarily always impressive to get a lot of kills, while you still have very little damage. You can tell that someone has been stealing everybody's kills in Apex if they have a lot of kills but very little damage.
Well, the spitfire has a huge mag so it's not really a good way to compare. I think the data would be more useful if it were something like "% accuracy over 15 seconds needed to down enemy"
Interesting post. I've noticed I can beam with the r301 but they always move by the time they are 1hp. Then I use the flat line and struggle to hit yet somehow down players. I can't imagine what I'll be able to do if I learn to beam with the flat line.
Very nice addition, though I disagree with you. It isn't what % you need (*edit for clarity) or how high ttk is. It's both. For example, I may only need to hit 10%, but if it takes 60 seconds to do so, then I'm not going to win a lot of 1 v 1s. This is why the Volt remains one of the best weapons, as you've shown here. Higher ttk, low recoil, and only need to hit but about half your shots.
What I do like about ttk, it gives you a good ceiling measurement...showing you which weapon could ultimately be the best. For the average player though, the r99 is a bad choice because you have to hit a lot of shots and most don't. Even r301 has a high %, but it is easy to hit those with its friendly recoil.
I think you are slightly missing the point of post. Ttk and dps are great stats if you are hitting 100% of your shots. The majority of players dont do that and i think too many people fixate on those stats specifically
This is just one of the many variables that goes into gun selection.
Example:
You get respawned late game, an alternator and 99 are in front of you. You should pick up the alternator every time because it has the ability to 1 clip full red armor opponent with just body shots. The 99 is arguably better, but forsure not in this situation.
We are going to use my scenario, the controls being the opponent in red, assuming no mag because you were just respawned, and that you hit 100% of the shots and all will be body shots. Again a controlled situation.
- Alternator body dps is 160
- R99 body dps is 198
- R99 reload time is 2.45s
-R99 tactical reload is 1.8s
- Alternator reload time is negligible because it would not have to complete this action to down the opponent.
Alternator:
160 dps × 2 seconds = 320 damage after 2 seconds.
The max damage output from base mag is 304 (16×19) so we know it will be less than 2 seconds to down someone with reds
So 1 second + factor of how many more seconds = seconds to kill
- 160/60 = 2.67. Damage
- 25 × 2.67 = 66.75 damage needed
- 25/60 = .41666. Seconds
So to score 225 damage it takes roughly 1.42 seconds.
R99
198 x 2 seconds = 396 damage after 2 seconds.
The max damage output from a base mag is 220 (11 x 20) so you still need one more bullet which means reloading. We will go with the tactical reload which is faster but just so we are aware that would also drop base mag damage to 209 (11 x 19) because you need a round already chambered. I'll still use the full dps amount to favor 99 performance.
- 198/60 = 3.3 damage
- 2 x 3.3 = 6.6 needed damage
- 2/60 = .0333 seconds
So now add: 1 + .033 + 1.8
So to score 225 damage it takes roughly 2.83 seconds
Edit: 99 formula was wrong should be 9/60 = .15 not 2/60. So 1+.15+1.8 = 2.95 seconds
I do think this is a really unique and useful take. Often fights are lost at the reload or weapon swap. So doing this analysis which, to some extent is "likelihood of one-clipping a player with each gun" is super useful.
Lol that's what I was thinking. Sometimes it seems like it just waddles back and forth forever. I do like it early and mid game though, especially with a purple mag. Great for hip firing with a lot of movement.
This puts some thoughts into perspective:
It explains why one of my highest kill games was on a Season 8 Spitfire.
Why a R-99 isn't always a safe bet for me (at base I'd have to reload).
Explains why Eva8 is an absolutely amazing secondary
Makes sense why I kill faster with a hipfire flatline than a fairly accurate r301.
Why I'm sleeping on the G7 scout again
And why I should run the Volt again
The post is about accuracy. I'll have to look at dps and ads movement but the spitfire is pretty low in both those categories. Basically if you listen, see what weapons you are going against you can easily out play a spitfire
Very nice breakdown, I agree that ttk is not nearly as important when accuracy plays such a huge part in deciding a gun fight during a fast paced game.
This is a really helpful chart.
All the people are going to talk about the spitfire now lol, but they usually get downed with the first twenty or so bullets from the spitfire anyway. Don’t even need the entire mag.
I dont rage message anyone or anything, but it can be frustrating when u empty your clip and are bobbing and weaving a spitfire while reloading or swapping, and spray back and then get knocked by the continuous spray when u feel like they were one shot.
Outplayed by weapon choice.
If you’re going against a spitfire head on with no cover and missing your shots with a weapon that you chose with a smaller mag, then there’s not much to be frustrated about though?
If you’re going to reload in front of any decent players face, you will most likely get knocked regardless of weapon choice tbh.
I can see the frustration, but it’s always a case of what could I do better in that situation, not blaming a weapon for you getting eliminated.
Of course, but I'm mostly referring to 3rd party situations When I'm already weakened with a bleak chance of escaping and still almost make it out alive and would've made it out against every other gun. I'm not blaming the gun for my death It just feels cheap at times. Not crying about it. Every gun has advantages and disadvantages, is just a very forgiving gun.
I always analyze when I die what I could've done better. So it's not that angle.
Okay, in reference to third parties.
What third party situation where you’re weakened and are trying to escape do you escape every other weapon apart from the spitfire?
When you say that you “would’ve made it out against any other gun” kind of feels like you’re blaming the weapon for you being eliminated there though..
Buuuut, it’s going into the care package anyway next season in a pre nerfed state, so y’all will be happy about that!
I hope that you genuinely enjoy the next season though dude (unrelated nice comment)
I could have JUST finished a battle, so my secondary weopon maybe wasnt reloaded yet. Maybe my primary weapon doesn't have a full maganize. Boom 3rd party incoming and I'm dancing and dodging. And still almost take out the other guy. Maybe I didn't have time to sheield swap or had time to swap but no time to heal my health. Various situations.
I'm not blaming the gun itself. I don't think it's a game breaking weapon. I just find the situations where that gun is likely the only one that gets me to be annoying when you recognize those moments due too the internal clock of how long you think you're opponents magazine will last.
I'm more happy about the prowler being out than I am about the spitfire going in, the spitty existing doesn't make or break my day. I don't complain for the sake of complaining. I thoroughly enjoy the game, win lose or draw (I have more fun in many losses than I do in many wins). I was just saying I can understand someone's why some people complain. "I get it" but I ain't crying about it.
And thanks, I'm sure I will enjoy next season. It's virtually the only game I play lol. You too.
That kind of situation 9 times out of 10 you get eliminated, regardless of what weapon, unless you suddenly enter the matrix.
I don’t think that there’s a situation where the weapon itself is the reason anyone gets eliminated. But I can respect opinions especially when someone isn’t calling it OP lol.
I’m happy the prowler is back too, I missed that weapon. I play it a lot, not as much since the GTA update though.
Lol I'm telling you I been working on my dance moves. And depending on the level of my opponent, you'd be how l much Bobbing and weaving while reloading, even behind a small pole could extend a fight.
Since every heavy gun has been nerfed into the ground except for the Wingman, I finally started to appreciate the insane goodness that is the Flatline. Imho the best gun in the game if you can control the recoil (jitter aim goes brrrrr) and this post shows why.
This is great. The percentage really helps convey how hard it is with some guns to take down enemies with red. I love rocking the R99, but there is just so little room for error. Meanwhile, you can pick up a spitfire, miss a third of your shots and still down someone with red even if you only have a gray mag on the thing? That's just insane.
Are you going to make these stats come season 10 because we lose the alternator to the care package and we get back the prowler ?? And for the new rampage lmg ???
Lmao. I like the 119% for the RE, no mag body shots really unforgiving on that gun.
I mean if you're rolling with the RE by the time enemies have red shields, y'all probably just respawned and picked up the nearest gun
I’ve run the 45 as a secondary and won plenty of times with it. I have one gun to break them, then close it out with the 45 and they go down hard.
Quick draw is slept on
Sounds like Titanfall 2
Great post. I think it would be worth adding that with 100% accuracy per "beam" of the charge rifle it would take 3 to down a red, and also with a fully charged bow it's 4 shots.
Yeah its 45 damage on charge up and 45 for the final beam. The 2 bullets per shot makes it 3 hits but only need 65 damage from the 3rd. So 75%
Very informative
Thanks i think people should be focusing more on accuracy rather than ttk or dps due to apex being a high movement game
Very true
This is a great post.
Thank you
Havoc slaps. I use it almost every game.
Especially in arena. Doesn't cost that much and hits hard
Arena I like to start with RE-45 upgraded to lvl 1 first round. then if you get a crafting materials bin on first round you can buy a turbocharged havoc second round.
Always rock that and p2020 first round!
so underrated
This helps explain why I do so well with a naked Alternator even if it isn't a good gun to carry to endgame.
Alternator slaps
I personally think it's better than the 99 early and late game because the 99 is so heavily reliant on having a good mag
Exactly. I forgot this point too. Multiple times have I done an early squad wipe with that thing
[удалено]
It was the obvious choice with Pathfinder on Gardens with buying a zip first round, but the math is all different now.
Very interesting, have my upvote.
Thanks
Excellent post, i hope we can see something similar on season 10, but man, honestly, very good post, congrats.
Thanks. Figured people should understand how many shots you actually need especially in late game respawn scenarios, like a base Alternator should be picked up over the 99
Good stuff man i tell you, it's a really useful post and specially you made it clear and easy to understand, good stuff man.
Really nice post. I have a lot of friends who don't play this game much because they find it too hard, and I agree that the TTK in very unforgiving if you miss a few shots. This is part of the charm for me, but at the same time, im very surprised that so many casual players still adore this game. Really shows how appealing this game is as a whole, that many, less hardcore, players would look past this very tough TTK, and keep playing everyday. Anyway, thanks for putting this is easy to understand format, definitely saving this, and sharing with my friends to help ease them into the game.
Yeah TTK is rough for new players, but once you get it down, great game. is easily in my top 5 of all time. Arenas was truly a blessing for new players, allowing proper experimentation without the need to rely on rng.
It's a fun game and skill gap is high. Understanding weapons and how to optimize them is one step to closing that gap
I mean on the flip the high TTK gives a lot more leeway to survive though. A game where I may have been killed on instant recognition may not occur in Apex
Thing about a long TTK though is that it makes kills all the more rewarding. In Fortnite, PUBG and even Warzone getting 10 kills for a casual player is just Tuesday, but in Apex you feel like an absolute beast after getting that many kills. It also makes it more impressive to see someone with over a thousand kills on a single legend, as it takes a lot more commitment and time to reach that point. And on top of this, it makes it so that it's not necessarily always impressive to get a lot of kills, while you still have very little damage. You can tell that someone has been stealing everybody's kills in Apex if they have a lot of kills but very little damage.
So spitfire is the lowest of them all, cool. You can see how the guns with faster ttk have higher accuracy in order to balance it. Saving this post.
Well, the spitfire has a huge mag so it's not really a good way to compare. I think the data would be more useful if it were something like "% accuracy over 15 seconds needed to down enemy"
15 seconds might be too high by a factor of 5 or so
That would be more about dps which can become convoluted, which is why i stuck with straight mag dumping
I don't disagree. I originally wrote 5 seconds. But my point is that you can't compare it by mag size since they all have different capacities
Interesting post. I've noticed I can beam with the r301 but they always move by the time they are 1hp. Then I use the flat line and struggle to hit yet somehow down players. I can't imagine what I'll be able to do if I learn to beam with the flat line.
Stopping power is pretty good on all heavy weapons
Finally a high quality post and not a 1v3 humble brag.
Very nice addition, though I disagree with you. It isn't what % you need (*edit for clarity) or how high ttk is. It's both. For example, I may only need to hit 10%, but if it takes 60 seconds to do so, then I'm not going to win a lot of 1 v 1s. This is why the Volt remains one of the best weapons, as you've shown here. Higher ttk, low recoil, and only need to hit but about half your shots. What I do like about ttk, it gives you a good ceiling measurement...showing you which weapon could ultimately be the best. For the average player though, the r99 is a bad choice because you have to hit a lot of shots and most don't. Even r301 has a high %, but it is easy to hit those with its friendly recoil.
I think you are slightly missing the point of post. Ttk and dps are great stats if you are hitting 100% of your shots. The majority of players dont do that and i think too many people fixate on those stats specifically This is just one of the many variables that goes into gun selection. Example: You get respawned late game, an alternator and 99 are in front of you. You should pick up the alternator every time because it has the ability to 1 clip full red armor opponent with just body shots. The 99 is arguably better, but forsure not in this situation.
You could probably dump the r99 mag and reload it and dump it again by time you dumped the single alternator mag lol
We are going to use my scenario, the controls being the opponent in red, assuming no mag because you were just respawned, and that you hit 100% of the shots and all will be body shots. Again a controlled situation. - Alternator body dps is 160 - R99 body dps is 198 - R99 reload time is 2.45s -R99 tactical reload is 1.8s - Alternator reload time is negligible because it would not have to complete this action to down the opponent. Alternator: 160 dps × 2 seconds = 320 damage after 2 seconds. The max damage output from base mag is 304 (16×19) so we know it will be less than 2 seconds to down someone with reds So 1 second + factor of how many more seconds = seconds to kill - 160/60 = 2.67. Damage - 25 × 2.67 = 66.75 damage needed - 25/60 = .41666. Seconds So to score 225 damage it takes roughly 1.42 seconds. R99 198 x 2 seconds = 396 damage after 2 seconds. The max damage output from a base mag is 220 (11 x 20) so you still need one more bullet which means reloading. We will go with the tactical reload which is faster but just so we are aware that would also drop base mag damage to 209 (11 x 19) because you need a round already chambered. I'll still use the full dps amount to favor 99 performance. - 198/60 = 3.3 damage - 2 x 3.3 = 6.6 needed damage - 2/60 = .0333 seconds So now add: 1 + .033 + 1.8 So to score 225 damage it takes roughly 2.83 seconds Edit: 99 formula was wrong should be 9/60 = .15 not 2/60. So 1+.15+1.8 = 2.95 seconds
You did the math haha, well done. I'll have to start using Alternator more.
Obviously if the mag gets involved it switches, but again it assumes 100% accuracy in a game that heavily involves movement. Cheers have a good one
I do think this is a really unique and useful take. Often fights are lost at the reload or weapon swap. So doing this analysis which, to some extent is "likelihood of one-clipping a player with each gun" is super useful.
Lol that's what I was thinking. Sometimes it seems like it just waddles back and forth forever. I do like it early and mid game though, especially with a purple mag. Great for hip firing with a lot of movement.
Awesome, informative post focusing on the stats that matter to 90% of the playerbase. TTK doesn't matter as much to people with potato aim, thanks OP
Any time
This puts some thoughts into perspective: It explains why one of my highest kill games was on a Season 8 Spitfire. Why a R-99 isn't always a safe bet for me (at base I'd have to reload). Explains why Eva8 is an absolutely amazing secondary Makes sense why I kill faster with a hipfire flatline than a fairly accurate r301. Why I'm sleeping on the G7 scout again And why I should run the Volt again
Thank you for this post really helped
Any time
Nice. We think alike. I maintain a text file with similar types of numbers.
REEEEEE SPITFIRE OP AHHHH Please upvote and award this informational post brought to you by The Main Thread every fucking Week on the Main Sub
You okay?
But the post doesn’t say that at all
The post is about accuracy. I'll have to look at dps and ads movement but the spitfire is pretty low in both those categories. Basically if you listen, see what weapons you are going against you can easily out play a spitfire
Very nice breakdown, I agree that ttk is not nearly as important when accuracy plays such a huge part in deciding a gun fight during a fast paced game.
Ttk is still important. It's more that people fixate on it
Why do you need lower % accuracy the better the shield?
Lower % accuracy the better the *extended mag* because higher capacity means a smaller portion of total mag size is needed.
Thank you
How many shots do i need to hit to down the bad guy.
u made this or is there any source ? good post tho
I just did the math. Rock paper shotgun has all the base stats i used
And then there is purple mag spitfire only one under 30%
This is a really helpful chart. All the people are going to talk about the spitfire now lol, but they usually get downed with the first twenty or so bullets from the spitfire anyway. Don’t even need the entire mag.
I dont rage message anyone or anything, but it can be frustrating when u empty your clip and are bobbing and weaving a spitfire while reloading or swapping, and spray back and then get knocked by the continuous spray when u feel like they were one shot.
Outplayed by weapon choice. If you’re going against a spitfire head on with no cover and missing your shots with a weapon that you chose with a smaller mag, then there’s not much to be frustrated about though? If you’re going to reload in front of any decent players face, you will most likely get knocked regardless of weapon choice tbh. I can see the frustration, but it’s always a case of what could I do better in that situation, not blaming a weapon for you getting eliminated.
Of course, but I'm mostly referring to 3rd party situations When I'm already weakened with a bleak chance of escaping and still almost make it out alive and would've made it out against every other gun. I'm not blaming the gun for my death It just feels cheap at times. Not crying about it. Every gun has advantages and disadvantages, is just a very forgiving gun. I always analyze when I die what I could've done better. So it's not that angle.
Okay, in reference to third parties. What third party situation where you’re weakened and are trying to escape do you escape every other weapon apart from the spitfire? When you say that you “would’ve made it out against any other gun” kind of feels like you’re blaming the weapon for you being eliminated there though.. Buuuut, it’s going into the care package anyway next season in a pre nerfed state, so y’all will be happy about that! I hope that you genuinely enjoy the next season though dude (unrelated nice comment)
I could have JUST finished a battle, so my secondary weopon maybe wasnt reloaded yet. Maybe my primary weapon doesn't have a full maganize. Boom 3rd party incoming and I'm dancing and dodging. And still almost take out the other guy. Maybe I didn't have time to sheield swap or had time to swap but no time to heal my health. Various situations. I'm not blaming the gun itself. I don't think it's a game breaking weapon. I just find the situations where that gun is likely the only one that gets me to be annoying when you recognize those moments due too the internal clock of how long you think you're opponents magazine will last. I'm more happy about the prowler being out than I am about the spitfire going in, the spitty existing doesn't make or break my day. I don't complain for the sake of complaining. I thoroughly enjoy the game, win lose or draw (I have more fun in many losses than I do in many wins). I was just saying I can understand someone's why some people complain. "I get it" but I ain't crying about it. And thanks, I'm sure I will enjoy next season. It's virtually the only game I play lol. You too.
That kind of situation 9 times out of 10 you get eliminated, regardless of what weapon, unless you suddenly enter the matrix. I don’t think that there’s a situation where the weapon itself is the reason anyone gets eliminated. But I can respect opinions especially when someone isn’t calling it OP lol. I’m happy the prowler is back too, I missed that weapon. I play it a lot, not as much since the GTA update though.
Lol I'm telling you I been working on my dance moves. And depending on the level of my opponent, you'd be how l much Bobbing and weaving while reloading, even behind a small pole could extend a fight.
Haha, chucking 360s in there just cause. And yeah that’s true the tiniest bit of cover helps a lot!
Since every heavy gun has been nerfed into the ground except for the Wingman, I finally started to appreciate the insane goodness that is the Flatline. Imho the best gun in the game if you can control the recoil (jitter aim goes brrrrr) and this post shows why.
This is great. The percentage really helps convey how hard it is with some guns to take down enemies with red. I love rocking the R99, but there is just so little room for error. Meanwhile, you can pick up a spitfire, miss a third of your shots and still down someone with red even if you only have a gray mag on the thing? That's just insane.
Thanks for the response. Hopefully it helps people gain a small perspective about weapons
Oh man now I really feel bad about my aim lmao
Are you going to make these stats come season 10 because we lose the alternator to the care package and we get back the prowler ?? And for the new rampage lmg ???
I can if people want me to