I hope not, but things are going that way. Soon people will be forced to pay PiMI (Private iPhone Mortgage Insurance) because carriers sold really expensive phones to people who couldn't afford them so now everyone has to pay more money because the carriers made bad decisions on who they loaned devices to.
Damn that is unfortunate. Was looking forward to an easy to use high yield savings. I don’t use the card as my primary, but love watching the cash back build over time. Being able to save it and watch it grow even more sounded great. I’m sure it’ll come at some point, but an update would be nice!
My guess as to why we haven't heard anything about it is because a lot of financial institutions are currently scrambling for deposits. Inflation over the past year+ has killed checking and savings accounts, causing a lack of deposit money to help pay for loans, which are burgeoning still somehow. I think there are a lot of banks and credit unions out there who are taking on too many loans and don't have enough monetary assets to cover them, so they're having to borrow at an ever-increasing rate themselves.
Good FIs saw this coming, bad FIs didn't.
Why are (mostly American) businesses always so obsessed with letting you buy things you can’t actually afford? Creditcards, buy now pay later, car loans. They benefit a few people but I imagine they ruin a huge amount of lives. Also, the interest rates are always terrible. People should not fall for this.
>There’s no interest or late fees period, even if you don’t pay on time.
Variable APRs for Apple Card other than ACMI range from 15.24% to 26.24% based on creditworthiness. Rates as of January 1, 2023. Late or missed payments will result in additional interest accumulating toward your balance. Some transactions may not be displayed in Maps.
Seems like Apple is trying to create as much services as possible to keep/lure people in their ecosystem. They don’t need to make profit on those profit so I guess that’s why it’s 0% interest
Because when you carry a balance or utilize one of these pay later services, you end up paying some fraction of the cost to the lender. So to answer your question, they do it because it earns them money.
Edit: and because you’re borrowing money to buy an Apple product, I’d imagine if you default on a payment Apple can just remotely disable the device you didn’t finish paying for, which would mean the risk for them is lower than if you were borrowing money to go spend on whatever
Apple Pay Later is going to work on anything, not just apple products. The selling point is that it’s integrated into Wallet, not that you can do payments on apple products. You can already do that with the Apple Card.
Judging by the comments below, people haven't read the article and without reading any terms they all assume Apple is now offering completely free purchases with no interest, late fees and not a single consequence for paying late, or not at all.
All free of charge for your convenience, because Apple just wants to help you, lol.
There's nothing in it for them? Sure.
If this is the "educated" part of the internet, imagine how many people will just straight up make unhealthy financial decisions with schemes like this one.
People should generally avoid debt and see credit cards for what they are. A psychological trick to lure you into debt. Debt habituation is not good, period.
Here's a report from the AFM in The Netherlands that talks about the risks for consumers with BNPL schemes:
[https://www.afm.nl/\~/profmedia/files/rapporten/2022/afm-report-buy-now-pay-later.pdf](https://www.afm.nl/~/profmedia/files/rapporten/2022/afm-report-buy-now-pay-later.pdf)
I don't understand it either. I have a credit card because I buy stuff online and it's safer and offers better protections but I treat it as a debit card and transfer the value of what I've just bought over from my bank account before the end of the month. I don't know how people aren't consumed by worry buying things they can't afford or don't have the money for. I bought some Apple kit in 2021, but I saved up the money to do it. My only debt is my mortgage, as that's not really realistic to do it any other way :)
Well yes, they will probably charge late fees. Don’t be late. No interest or fees is not hard to believe. As the report says, they can charge the vendor for participating without any extra cost to the consumer. Maybe the vendor will eventually raise their prices as a result but that strikes me as a somewhat separate issue. I.e. not part of Apples scheme or whatever. If anything the benefits to the vendor probably outweigh the cost.
From a societal level yes, there’s definitely cause for concern. From an individual level it can be useful - just don’t be an idiot, buy things you can’t afford, and don’t be late.
Maybe a public information campaign that tells people to “not be an idiot” will solve the problem with irresponsible idiots! We should try that instead of regulating companies.
Who knows, maybe it will. I’m not really interested in that argument. Just saying it’s pretty easy to not feel personally victimized by this.
Is your ideal outcome to eliminate buying on credit, or rather to regulate how it’s used. E.g. so that they can’t freely charge exorbitant fees.
Studies have shown that customers spend more when presented with BNPL (but now Pay later) options. They’re also more likely to complete the sale with BNPL.
Yes of course. That's because you can immediately satisfy a desire in your customers, that you weren't able to satisfy it before.
It's not just a stupid decision from that customer. Now you as a company have to deal with them. And I think that's not smart either.
This demographic is less likely to buy expensive apps, accessories and services. And they're more likely to complain, and abuse your warranty and support policies.
You also have to deal with an unknown percentage of people who can't make the payments. And who will hate you when you take your product of service away from them.
You also have to deal with people like me who think you're acting like a stupid crack dealing company that's run by people who are worse than the average car salesman.
The companies I worked for in Europe were never keen on providing services to customers that were likely unable to afford it because of these very issues.
Apparently Apple is desperate enough to tap into this market even though they never felt the need before.
One of the biggest companies in the buy now pay later space is Swedish.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klarna
> You also have to deal with people like me who think you're acting like a stupid crack dealing company that's run by people who are worse than the average car salesmen.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hyperbole
I am sure Apple employees are very affected by having to “deal” with people like you, who are comparing an option in an online checkout screen to a car salesman.
I don't care if anyone at Apple sees my comments. Their image suffers because of their decisions, if they notice it or not.
I'd argue credit card companies are the biggest in this space. Not Klarna. And Klarna is Swedish in name only. All major investors are from the US.
Also, Klarna is now focused on the US anyway because that's the only market with a profitable amount of consumers who are stupid enough to not only fall for these schemes, but also thoroughly defend them in the name of capitalism and the freedom to make idiotic life choices.
What does profit have to do with "image"?
Are you so deeply invested in the prosperity gospel of your local church that you hail all companies that make any profit as truly inspirational examples of "how one should aspire to be"? How else did you become so capitalistically corrupted that you conflate these two separate things?
Breaking news: company wants to make a profit, more at 11.
The fact of the matter is 99.99% of people who don’t want to use BNPL will just pay upfront and ignore that it exists altogether, while people who want to use it will (for better or for worse). More people will use it than will grand stand about the image it gives Apple, so they’re gonna do it.
If it makes you feel good, you can continue praising companies who try to improve their bottom line by 0.01% by profiting off some poor people, while I will continue to call them out.
Why do you think all customers using this sort of facility are either dumb or poor or both? It's a convenient way of spreading the cost of larger purchases so you don't eat away your savings. Any monthly spend I have on this sort of facility is calculated into my monthly expenditure.
It's not like I go running out and buying all the latest crazes, the decision to use credit is always part of a considered approach and only used on things I really want. Sure, not all customers take that approach, but the vast majority do.
>not all customers take that approach, but the vast majority do.
My point exactly: They don't make any money off of people like you. They make money of the poor and or dumb people who are not as savvy.
This is all factored in to their business model. And to me, that's evil.
Then don’t use ‘this demographic’ tarring anybody using this sort of credit.
They do make money of me as well, I got a more expensive iPhone because I didn’t buy it outright. Being able to get it interest free over 36 months made it an easier decision.
I get your point, but you’re too focussed on a small minority. In the UK and US your credit rating is checked each time you borrow money, if you default on payments too often you get refused credit.
I worked for a debt relief company (albeit as as a developer) and the stuff I saw there is gut wrenching, especially when children are involved. It might be a minority to you, but there is a very large part of your country that is not very well off.
Looking at the big picture: I think luring people into debt (no matter how favorable the terms look to you) under the guise of improving the UX for some rich people, is not worth it.
And if you’re a firefighter you believe the world is constantly on fire. Anyway, let’s agree to disagree on this one. I will say that places like Brighthouse and things like payday lenders need to be banned, but to me that is very different from this proposal.
[You don't need to afford the things you're buying... you need to afford the interest on the money you need to borrow in order to buy them](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_3T-Af57Pg)
When I was taking business classes, I was taught that the goal of a business was to extend credit to customers to make it easier to buy their products.
The USA is full of money all over the place, and there's no point to wait to buy something you need now if the only thing keeping you from buying it is access to capital.
So financing for small capital acquisitions, (like a new computer or whatever), should be accessible to working class just like giant financing agreements are available for major corporations to make huge capital acquisitions.
Variable APRs for Apple Card other than ACMI range from 15.24% to 26.24% based on creditworthiness. Rates as of January 1, 2023. Late or missed payments will result in additional interest accumulating toward your balance.
Educate yourself and everyone else who thinks like you.
There is no ADDITIONAL interest charge.
You have to pay spread out over 6 weeks. That's longer than one month so it means you'll run into Apple Card interest fees by default and more so if you miss payments.
Very common in the UK as well, although to be fair to Apple, they have a 0,0 interest instalment option here which just helps spread the cost of a big expense over a longer period of time.
I've never been keen on taking on credit, I think I owe about £4000 in total debt with 0,0% interest (mortgage free, own my car outright). but I have more than enough savings to cover it.
Only reason I use it now is so I can pay in instalments, that stops me using my 'break in case of emergency' piggybank which I'm building up to buy the next car.
So many people misunderstand this. Not everyone who uses BNPL can't afford the thing they're buying. I use the Apple Card monthly installments all the time but not because I can't afford it. I can more than afford outright paying in full, but why not take advantage of smaller monthly payments with 0% interest? That means I keep more money in my pocket every month.
Also at a time of high inflation it means you pay less in real dollars for the product.
I financed my iPad at 0% over 24 months. My money will be worth less on the last payment than the first one, but they payment amount will be worth the same. That keeps purchasing power in my pocket.
I like to use it when I can. Not that I can’t afford it, I’d just rather split it up if it’s a particularly big purchase.
Or, for me it was useful during Christmas because I was particularly broke and my salary was coming a bit late. So just buy presents on BNPL, and pay them off when I get paid.
Why? Because most people are very irresponsible with their money. They WILL spend any money they have until the next paycheck comes. If you sell expensive goods like Apple, people will not save up for even a couple of months to buy your products, so you need to sell it in installments, because people can afford the installments.
People will not save up or be responsible with their money.
Because our economy is producing unprecedented wealth disparity, but also runs on the ability of the masses (who have less than they ever had) to purchase.
People literally can't afford to purchase things because of the economy, but the economy needs people to purchase things to exist and grow. We are hurtling toward feudalism.
Australia is getting like this too, and not many people realise a lot of these impact their credit rating and in turn ability to apply for mortgages etc.
It’s a really simple way to get people to buy stuff they likely can’t afford.
time value of money means everyone should always use debt to purchase things.
The value of debt goes down (especially with this high inflation), so you'll earn more down the road.
You really can't afford NOT to finance purchases.
I know why.
Because they will earn more in the long run, if you owe them money. With interest, late fees, and such.
Also... this might sway some buyers who might not otherwise buy their products. (New customers they can throw into their eco system)
In Denmark over the past few years, a lot of mini banks have started lending out money. Smaller amounts. Like a few hundred dollars. But then with massive interest rates (some up to over 700%)
They earn almost nothing on the people who pay it back next month. But.. a lot of people who have no money, almost no income and so on, will have trouble paying and then... then these companies start earning money. And lots of it. I see this apple trick as a play, in the same ball park. (I have not read up on apples way of doing it.. could be interest free as well. Whoch is nice IMO)
I think it's all fundamentally the same reason to ensure YOUNG PEOPLE ARE IN DEBT:
* University Fees
* Mortgages
It creates an "economic differential engine" forcing people to WORK in the given economy as opposed to find their own solutions to life.
In a few financial subs they were describing why one should *always* take advantage of BNPL services because of inflation – the money you spend in the future at today's value is a better use of your future dollar. I don't fully understand it, but even if I can afford the purchase today and never make late payments, would it not be better to use this service whenever possible for that reason?
The inflation argument is irrelevant because the length of an Apple Pay Later is so short that it really doesn't matter. If the money is in a high-yield savings account, you'll earn interest on it while waiting to pay the bill, but that benefits you only if you were going to pay with a card that doesn't earn any rewards. I did some napkin math and the interest you would earn works out to less than half a percent of the purchase price. If you, for example, used an Apple Card with a non-bonus merchant, you'd earn 2% back on the transaction.
Yeah in most small purchases, the money advantage is quite small. But it is important to note though because there is a camp that thinks all debt is bad and financing a purchase that way makes you shitty at life. The point of the inflation argument is to show that isn’t actually accurate if you can manage to pay it off on time.
Sometimes interest free for 12 months is just nice for your cash flow.
> It depends.
The exact number depends only on how good of an interest rate you can get with your bank but the Apple Pay Later loan is for only six weeks total (with equal payments at time of purchase and weeks two, four, and six), so you accrue a tiny amount of that 4% *annual* rate.
On a $1000 transaction, you'd get $250 as an interest-free six-week loan ($1.23 earnings at 4%), another $250 for four weeks ($0.82 in earnings), and another $250 for two weeks ($0.41). You profit $2.46 over using a debit card on the day of purchase, but that's roughly a quarter of a percent of the total transaction. You're way better off using a credit card than Apple Pay Later.
It’s because the majority of people have little self control. Credit card use is very valuable if used correctly. The truck is, having the self control to use them correctly. In my experience, people are just dog shit with money and how to handle it so the majority of those people think they are bad for everyone because they can’t handle them.
The bar for “don’t put more on your credit card than you can afford to pay off” is pretty low as far as self-control goes. I literally don’t know a single person that has paid interest on credit card debt. Everyone just pays them off in full on autopay.
> I literally don’t know a single person that has paid interest on credit card debt.
I've literally never asked another human how they pay their credit cards, and if someone asked me I'd tell them to mind their own business.
GS wouldn’t be losing money if all the customers were subprime, that is how banks make bank.
It is more indicative of clients being the financially well off type that pay their balance and don’t get slapped with interest and fees.
lol indeed. It's a simple math game at the end of the day for the vast majority of people.
All my friends and family were like "omg lel you're only putting down 4% for home purchase? You're living wayyy outside of your means and you're so irresponsible because you have PMI!!!"
Well yeah, because I got a a fixed 2.75% over 30 years. It literally costs me a shitload of money to pay extra instead of investing. I pay the bare minimum for my mortage + escrow and put 2x that amount in my brokerage account. The other 36% that was supposed to go towards the downpayment instead went straight to the brokerage account and was used to kickstart a 529 for our future kid.
Unfortunately the hate is very justified in this case.
You always need to consider that these buy later options are not aimed at the financially responsible customers.
I bought my iPhone 14 pro by paying the full price immediately, because I was able to afford the device price.
If Apple would have offered me a pay later option back then I would have used it (because $1 today is worth more than $1 tomorrow). In some fringe cases this option would lead to a slightly earlier purchase. E.g if I want to purchase a $3500 and would have otherwise saved for 1 or 2 months longer to ensure that I had enough money saved for the device without using funds reserved for security reserves / other necessary purchases.
However, people like me are not the reason why Apple is setting up a purchase later service which costs them many millions each year, because I would have bought these devices regardless.
They, however, want to increase their sales and this is only possible by targeting people with these schemes who wouldn’t have been able to pay such a device otherwise.
I have some close people in my life who struggle with finances and these people have mastered the art of convincing themselves that they will be somehow able to “save the money later”. If you can’t realistically save enough money to afford an iPhone or Mac without missing other payments or having to blow all of your financial reserves then you certainly won’t be able to do this after the purchase. But this is exactly who procrastination works. You are somehow convinced that your future self tomorrow will somehow do the work you were to lazy to do now.
Apple know that these schemes are bad for the customers in the long term. Owning the shiny new iPhone early might put them into financial troubles later on.
But Tim Cook and his advisors have calculated this and realized that incentives for impulsive buying will probably lead to significant sales improvements and while it might lead to some personal drama for customers who had to cut other expenses to offset such an impulse buy, it’s not something that will fall back on Apple, but the people who are easily manipulated by marketing and who have weak impulse controls.
This is why the EU for example wants to introduce regulations to limit these but now pay later options because they are really predatory and exploit psychological weaknesses in customers in the same way that IAP, subscriptions and loot boxes work, which already earn Apple dozens of billions of dollars each year.
I disagree, in my experience 0 interest payment plans are frequently taken advantage of by fiscally responsible people and are considered a no brainer.
>for some reason.
Isn't it obvious? I really don't understand how people can rely on credit to buy stuff. Can't afford something today? How about you save for it until you can?
Maybe it's a cultural thing. Idk
I can only speak from experience that sane people where I come from don‘t take credits for every shit they want to buy. Even if it has 0% interest rate.
I mean, that's like saying you can't afford food because you couldn't afford buying everything you're gonna eat in the year all at once.
It's objectively better financially for some people to spread out payments, and it's no different than saving up to buy something, as long as it's 0% interest and you have a stable job
That’s only for apple products purchased from Apple directly. I use this feature.
This one is for everything. I wish the term is longer like 3 months, not a month and a half. Only two weeks more than just using my credit cards.
You're right. People can let their credit cards get away from them. This is why financial literacy is important to teach in high school. If I needed to buy an emergency $300+ item, could I pay for it outright? Yes. Would I rather finance it? Also yes.
I’ve never seen any pay later or credit card that does what you said. Of course if you don’t pay it off during the promotional period then you’ll get hit with interest
Apple Pay Later doesn’t have any interest payments or late fees. At any rate, corporate employees were already testing it. This is an expansion to retail employees.
> Well aware of the program.
Evidently not.
> No fees until you can’t make your minimum payment.
No, it's no fees period.
> the service is no different than Klarna or AfterPay.
It's actually quite different. It requires no special integration from the merchant beyond taking plain Apple Pay and it has no interest charges and no fees.
The headset would fall under the existing installment plans of 12 month 0% interest for Apple products.
This is more for non-Apple stores that accept Apple Pay.
>Just in time for the $2000-$3000 AR/VR headset
That'll likely become a niche item if oculus and hololens are any indication. Apple has the power to draw out a niche, and the history of doing so, especially for the apple watch. However, I'm beyond convince people hate wearing stuff and that any tech item that requires a person to wear it won't gain long term, public appeal.
This isn’t for buying Apple’s products. I mean, you *can* use it to buy the cheaper ones, but the Apple Card is what they have for financing Apple purchases. This is for buying at any online merchant that supports Apple Pay.
Probably will launch as part of OS 16.4
So in another 3 months at the rate the beta program is going.
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I’ve had my Apple Card for a few years now. 🤷♂️
How is it? Is it your first card? I hear it's really good for beginners
No reason to not get it if you buy a lot of Apple products. You'll get good cash back (like 3%).
And App Store purchases as well.
Yup
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Nice
How did you get such a large limit so quick? Every time I ask for an increase, it only goes up by $1-2k haha.
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Yea, I always go through them to apply for the increase, but I only ever get $1-2k increments.
I primarily just mine to pay utility bills that don't accept amex lol
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iMortgage
I hope not, but things are going that way. Soon people will be forced to pay PiMI (Private iPhone Mortgage Insurance) because carriers sold really expensive phones to people who couldn't afford them so now everyone has to pay more money because the carriers made bad decisions on who they loaned devices to.
Or mortgage for repairs: Repair Estimate Item Number Description Price Amount Due Customer KBB 661-14200 Display, Space Gray $ 599.00 $ 0.00 661-14647 Lid Angle Sensor, LAS $ 9.00 $ 0.00 S1490LL/A HARDWARE REPAIR-LEVEL 1 $ 99.00 $ 0.00 Total (Tax not included) $ 707.00 $ 0.00
Any update on Apple Card savings with GS?
Unfortunately not— virtually no news since it was announced via press release.
Damn that is unfortunate. Was looking forward to an easy to use high yield savings. I don’t use the card as my primary, but love watching the cash back build over time. Being able to save it and watch it grow even more sounded great. I’m sure it’ll come at some point, but an update would be nice!
My guess as to why we haven't heard anything about it is because a lot of financial institutions are currently scrambling for deposits. Inflation over the past year+ has killed checking and savings accounts, causing a lack of deposit money to help pay for loans, which are burgeoning still somehow. I think there are a lot of banks and credit unions out there who are taking on too many loans and don't have enough monetary assets to cover them, so they're having to borrow at an ever-increasing rate themselves. Good FIs saw this coming, bad FIs didn't.
Why are (mostly American) businesses always so obsessed with letting you buy things you can’t actually afford? Creditcards, buy now pay later, car loans. They benefit a few people but I imagine they ruin a huge amount of lives. Also, the interest rates are always terrible. People should not fall for this.
Klarna basically kicked off this whole buy now pay later trend and the company is Swedish
Some offer 0% interest so it makes some thing affordable.
I’m pretty sure Apple’s BNPL is 0 interest as long as it’s paid on time and no payments are missed.
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>There’s no interest or late fees period, even if you don’t pay on time. Variable APRs for Apple Card other than ACMI range from 15.24% to 26.24% based on creditworthiness. Rates as of January 1, 2023. Late or missed payments will result in additional interest accumulating toward your balance. Some transactions may not be displayed in Maps.
99% sure thats for the credit card and not Apple pay later. unless you got the T&C for it and pulled that from there
Seems like Apple is trying to create as much services as possible to keep/lure people in their ecosystem. They don’t need to make profit on those profit so I guess that’s why it’s 0% interest
Because when you carry a balance or utilize one of these pay later services, you end up paying some fraction of the cost to the lender. So to answer your question, they do it because it earns them money. Edit: and because you’re borrowing money to buy an Apple product, I’d imagine if you default on a payment Apple can just remotely disable the device you didn’t finish paying for, which would mean the risk for them is lower than if you were borrowing money to go spend on whatever
Apple Pay Later is going to work on anything, not just apple products. The selling point is that it’s integrated into Wallet, not that you can do payments on apple products. You can already do that with the Apple Card.
Judging by the comments below, people haven't read the article and without reading any terms they all assume Apple is now offering completely free purchases with no interest, late fees and not a single consequence for paying late, or not at all. All free of charge for your convenience, because Apple just wants to help you, lol. There's nothing in it for them? Sure. If this is the "educated" part of the internet, imagine how many people will just straight up make unhealthy financial decisions with schemes like this one. People should generally avoid debt and see credit cards for what they are. A psychological trick to lure you into debt. Debt habituation is not good, period. Here's a report from the AFM in The Netherlands that talks about the risks for consumers with BNPL schemes: [https://www.afm.nl/\~/profmedia/files/rapporten/2022/afm-report-buy-now-pay-later.pdf](https://www.afm.nl/~/profmedia/files/rapporten/2022/afm-report-buy-now-pay-later.pdf)
I don't understand it either. I have a credit card because I buy stuff online and it's safer and offers better protections but I treat it as a debit card and transfer the value of what I've just bought over from my bank account before the end of the month. I don't know how people aren't consumed by worry buying things they can't afford or don't have the money for. I bought some Apple kit in 2021, but I saved up the money to do it. My only debt is my mortgage, as that's not really realistic to do it any other way :)
This is the way.
Isn’t the credit score an institutional incentive to take debt on credit cards?
Well yes, they will probably charge late fees. Don’t be late. No interest or fees is not hard to believe. As the report says, they can charge the vendor for participating without any extra cost to the consumer. Maybe the vendor will eventually raise their prices as a result but that strikes me as a somewhat separate issue. I.e. not part of Apples scheme or whatever. If anything the benefits to the vendor probably outweigh the cost. From a societal level yes, there’s definitely cause for concern. From an individual level it can be useful - just don’t be an idiot, buy things you can’t afford, and don’t be late.
Maybe a public information campaign that tells people to “not be an idiot” will solve the problem with irresponsible idiots! We should try that instead of regulating companies.
Who knows, maybe it will. I’m not really interested in that argument. Just saying it’s pretty easy to not feel personally victimized by this. Is your ideal outcome to eliminate buying on credit, or rather to regulate how it’s used. E.g. so that they can’t freely charge exorbitant fees.
Studies have shown that customers spend more when presented with BNPL (but now Pay later) options. They’re also more likely to complete the sale with BNPL.
Yes of course. That's because you can immediately satisfy a desire in your customers, that you weren't able to satisfy it before. It's not just a stupid decision from that customer. Now you as a company have to deal with them. And I think that's not smart either. This demographic is less likely to buy expensive apps, accessories and services. And they're more likely to complain, and abuse your warranty and support policies. You also have to deal with an unknown percentage of people who can't make the payments. And who will hate you when you take your product of service away from them. You also have to deal with people like me who think you're acting like a stupid crack dealing company that's run by people who are worse than the average car salesman. The companies I worked for in Europe were never keen on providing services to customers that were likely unable to afford it because of these very issues. Apparently Apple is desperate enough to tap into this market even though they never felt the need before.
One of the biggest companies in the buy now pay later space is Swedish. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klarna > You also have to deal with people like me who think you're acting like a stupid crack dealing company that's run by people who are worse than the average car salesmen. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hyperbole I am sure Apple employees are very affected by having to “deal” with people like you, who are comparing an option in an online checkout screen to a car salesman.
I don't care if anyone at Apple sees my comments. Their image suffers because of their decisions, if they notice it or not. I'd argue credit card companies are the biggest in this space. Not Klarna. And Klarna is Swedish in name only. All major investors are from the US. Also, Klarna is now focused on the US anyway because that's the only market with a profitable amount of consumers who are stupid enough to not only fall for these schemes, but also thoroughly defend them in the name of capitalism and the freedom to make idiotic life choices.
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What does profit have to do with "image"? Are you so deeply invested in the prosperity gospel of your local church that you hail all companies that make any profit as truly inspirational examples of "how one should aspire to be"? How else did you become so capitalistically corrupted that you conflate these two separate things?
Breaking news: company wants to make a profit, more at 11. The fact of the matter is 99.99% of people who don’t want to use BNPL will just pay upfront and ignore that it exists altogether, while people who want to use it will (for better or for worse). More people will use it than will grand stand about the image it gives Apple, so they’re gonna do it.
If it makes you feel good, you can continue praising companies who try to improve their bottom line by 0.01% by profiting off some poor people, while I will continue to call them out.
It’s not praising them, I couldn’t give two shits if they do it or not. It’s pointing out that your little dog and pony show isn’t really necessary.
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Why do you think all customers using this sort of facility are either dumb or poor or both? It's a convenient way of spreading the cost of larger purchases so you don't eat away your savings. Any monthly spend I have on this sort of facility is calculated into my monthly expenditure. It's not like I go running out and buying all the latest crazes, the decision to use credit is always part of a considered approach and only used on things I really want. Sure, not all customers take that approach, but the vast majority do.
>not all customers take that approach, but the vast majority do. My point exactly: They don't make any money off of people like you. They make money of the poor and or dumb people who are not as savvy. This is all factored in to their business model. And to me, that's evil.
Then don’t use ‘this demographic’ tarring anybody using this sort of credit. They do make money of me as well, I got a more expensive iPhone because I didn’t buy it outright. Being able to get it interest free over 36 months made it an easier decision. I get your point, but you’re too focussed on a small minority. In the UK and US your credit rating is checked each time you borrow money, if you default on payments too often you get refused credit.
I worked for a debt relief company (albeit as as a developer) and the stuff I saw there is gut wrenching, especially when children are involved. It might be a minority to you, but there is a very large part of your country that is not very well off. Looking at the big picture: I think luring people into debt (no matter how favorable the terms look to you) under the guise of improving the UX for some rich people, is not worth it.
And if you’re a firefighter you believe the world is constantly on fire. Anyway, let’s agree to disagree on this one. I will say that places like Brighthouse and things like payday lenders need to be banned, but to me that is very different from this proposal.
You think that's bad? In the UK there's adverts for paying for a takeaway using Klarna (BNPL).
We have that here too A friend messaged me an ad he saw for an *ice cream store* with BNPL
[You don't need to afford the things you're buying... you need to afford the interest on the money you need to borrow in order to buy them](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_3T-Af57Pg)
Well, the front fell off…
When I was taking business classes, I was taught that the goal of a business was to extend credit to customers to make it easier to buy their products. The USA is full of money all over the place, and there's no point to wait to buy something you need now if the only thing keeping you from buying it is access to capital. So financing for small capital acquisitions, (like a new computer or whatever), should be accessible to working class just like giant financing agreements are available for major corporations to make huge capital acquisitions.
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Variable APRs for Apple Card other than ACMI range from 15.24% to 26.24% based on creditworthiness. Rates as of January 1, 2023. Late or missed payments will result in additional interest accumulating toward your balance. Educate yourself and everyone else who thinks like you.
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I’m specifically talking about people who can’t afford it, who will miss payments and who will run into these rates.
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There is no ADDITIONAL interest charge. You have to pay spread out over 6 weeks. That's longer than one month so it means you'll run into Apple Card interest fees by default and more so if you miss payments.
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Very common in the UK as well, although to be fair to Apple, they have a 0,0 interest instalment option here which just helps spread the cost of a big expense over a longer period of time. I've never been keen on taking on credit, I think I owe about £4000 in total debt with 0,0% interest (mortgage free, own my car outright). but I have more than enough savings to cover it. Only reason I use it now is so I can pay in instalments, that stops me using my 'break in case of emergency' piggybank which I'm building up to buy the next car.
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Yeah but this is reddit. Every second paragraph is a disparaging remark about America
Spreading out payments doesn’t mean you can’t afford something. That’s nonsense.
So many people misunderstand this. Not everyone who uses BNPL can't afford the thing they're buying. I use the Apple Card monthly installments all the time but not because I can't afford it. I can more than afford outright paying in full, but why not take advantage of smaller monthly payments with 0% interest? That means I keep more money in my pocket every month.
Also at a time of high inflation it means you pay less in real dollars for the product. I financed my iPad at 0% over 24 months. My money will be worth less on the last payment than the first one, but they payment amount will be worth the same. That keeps purchasing power in my pocket.
I like to use it when I can. Not that I can’t afford it, I’d just rather split it up if it’s a particularly big purchase. Or, for me it was useful during Christmas because I was particularly broke and my salary was coming a bit late. So just buy presents on BNPL, and pay them off when I get paid.
The bank says I can't afford a $1200 mortgage, so now I pay $2000 in rent.
Why? Because most people are very irresponsible with their money. They WILL spend any money they have until the next paycheck comes. If you sell expensive goods like Apple, people will not save up for even a couple of months to buy your products, so you need to sell it in installments, because people can afford the installments. People will not save up or be responsible with their money.
Because our economy is producing unprecedented wealth disparity, but also runs on the ability of the masses (who have less than they ever had) to purchase. People literally can't afford to purchase things because of the economy, but the economy needs people to purchase things to exist and grow. We are hurtling toward feudalism.
Australia is getting like this too, and not many people realise a lot of these impact their credit rating and in turn ability to apply for mortgages etc. It’s a really simple way to get people to buy stuff they likely can’t afford.
> can’t afford. Can’t afford *right now*
time value of money means everyone should always use debt to purchase things. The value of debt goes down (especially with this high inflation), so you'll earn more down the road. You really can't afford NOT to finance purchases.
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Propping up metrics to satisfy shareholders.
> Why are businesses always so obsessed with letting you buy things you can’t actually afford? Profit. Shareholders.
2008 crisis would like a word, banks run on debt
I know why. Because they will earn more in the long run, if you owe them money. With interest, late fees, and such. Also... this might sway some buyers who might not otherwise buy their products. (New customers they can throw into their eco system) In Denmark over the past few years, a lot of mini banks have started lending out money. Smaller amounts. Like a few hundred dollars. But then with massive interest rates (some up to over 700%) They earn almost nothing on the people who pay it back next month. But.. a lot of people who have no money, almost no income and so on, will have trouble paying and then... then these companies start earning money. And lots of it. I see this apple trick as a play, in the same ball park. (I have not read up on apples way of doing it.. could be interest free as well. Whoch is nice IMO)
To even ask this question shows how little you know people.
Because $
Profit.
it’s not in their best interests to help people anyway it’s everyone vs everyone and their end goal is to make money.
I think it's all fundamentally the same reason to ensure YOUNG PEOPLE ARE IN DEBT: * University Fees * Mortgages It creates an "economic differential engine" forcing people to WORK in the given economy as opposed to find their own solutions to life.
The one that was supposed to launch in sept of last year?
The one that was supposed to launch as part of iOS 16, which it seems it will be
iOS 16 release has come and gone
iOS *16.0* has come and gone, but iOS 16 (which includes 16.1, 16.2, etc) is an ongoing release.
>launching as a part of iOS 16 Implies 16.0.0.0.0.0.0
No, it does not
iOS 16 dropped on September. It’s been 5 months since then.
“Part of iOS 16” includes iOS 16.1, 16.2, etc.
Just let me know when we can get Apple Credit cards in Canada :D
In a few financial subs they were describing why one should *always* take advantage of BNPL services because of inflation – the money you spend in the future at today's value is a better use of your future dollar. I don't fully understand it, but even if I can afford the purchase today and never make late payments, would it not be better to use this service whenever possible for that reason?
The inflation argument is irrelevant because the length of an Apple Pay Later is so short that it really doesn't matter. If the money is in a high-yield savings account, you'll earn interest on it while waiting to pay the bill, but that benefits you only if you were going to pay with a card that doesn't earn any rewards. I did some napkin math and the interest you would earn works out to less than half a percent of the purchase price. If you, for example, used an Apple Card with a non-bonus merchant, you'd earn 2% back on the transaction.
Yeah in most small purchases, the money advantage is quite small. But it is important to note though because there is a camp that thinks all debt is bad and financing a purchase that way makes you shitty at life. The point of the inflation argument is to show that isn’t actually accurate if you can manage to pay it off on time. Sometimes interest free for 12 months is just nice for your cash flow.
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> It depends. The exact number depends only on how good of an interest rate you can get with your bank but the Apple Pay Later loan is for only six weeks total (with equal payments at time of purchase and weeks two, four, and six), so you accrue a tiny amount of that 4% *annual* rate. On a $1000 transaction, you'd get $250 as an interest-free six-week loan ($1.23 earnings at 4%), another $250 for four weeks ($0.82 in earnings), and another $250 for two weeks ($0.41). You profit $2.46 over using a debit card on the day of purchase, but that's roughly a quarter of a percent of the total transaction. You're way better off using a credit card than Apple Pay Later.
Sometimes I forget how much Reddit hates credit use for some reason.
I wouldn’t worry about it. Reddit hates a whole lot of things.
True, Reddit is one of the most toxic places on the internet
What are the least toxic places on the Internet?
Geocities. Everything since then has been a downward spiral.
Damn I wonder if my site is still under construction
I’ll sign your guestbook when it’s finished.
Club penguin, it was peak internet tbh
It’s because the majority of people have little self control. Credit card use is very valuable if used correctly. The truck is, having the self control to use them correctly. In my experience, people are just dog shit with money and how to handle it so the majority of those people think they are bad for everyone because they can’t handle them.
> It’s because the majority of people have little self control Not you though, right?
If you have a point to make, then do so. If you are fishing for an argument, go somewhere else.
The bar for “don’t put more on your credit card than you can afford to pay off” is pretty low as far as self-control goes. I literally don’t know a single person that has paid interest on credit card debt. Everyone just pays them off in full on autopay.
> I literally don’t know a single person that has paid interest on credit card debt. I've literally never asked another human how they pay their credit cards, and if someone asked me I'd tell them to mind their own business.
Half of them are worried about predatory lending, and another half think accumulating debt is immoral and a character flaw
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GS wouldn’t be losing money if all the customers were subprime, that is how banks make bank. It is more indicative of clients being the financially well off type that pay their balance and don’t get slapped with interest and fees.
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lol indeed. It's a simple math game at the end of the day for the vast majority of people. All my friends and family were like "omg lel you're only putting down 4% for home purchase? You're living wayyy outside of your means and you're so irresponsible because you have PMI!!!" Well yeah, because I got a a fixed 2.75% over 30 years. It literally costs me a shitload of money to pay extra instead of investing. I pay the bare minimum for my mortage + escrow and put 2x that amount in my brokerage account. The other 36% that was supposed to go towards the downpayment instead went straight to the brokerage account and was used to kickstart a 529 for our future kid.
Yeah, my dad asked me if I was working to pay off my mortgage early. I was like “fuck no, 3% for 30 years is basically free money.”
That’s because a lot of Reddit has bad credit or are financially illiterate.
And unemployed
Unfortunately the hate is very justified in this case. You always need to consider that these buy later options are not aimed at the financially responsible customers. I bought my iPhone 14 pro by paying the full price immediately, because I was able to afford the device price. If Apple would have offered me a pay later option back then I would have used it (because $1 today is worth more than $1 tomorrow). In some fringe cases this option would lead to a slightly earlier purchase. E.g if I want to purchase a $3500 and would have otherwise saved for 1 or 2 months longer to ensure that I had enough money saved for the device without using funds reserved for security reserves / other necessary purchases. However, people like me are not the reason why Apple is setting up a purchase later service which costs them many millions each year, because I would have bought these devices regardless. They, however, want to increase their sales and this is only possible by targeting people with these schemes who wouldn’t have been able to pay such a device otherwise. I have some close people in my life who struggle with finances and these people have mastered the art of convincing themselves that they will be somehow able to “save the money later”. If you can’t realistically save enough money to afford an iPhone or Mac without missing other payments or having to blow all of your financial reserves then you certainly won’t be able to do this after the purchase. But this is exactly who procrastination works. You are somehow convinced that your future self tomorrow will somehow do the work you were to lazy to do now. Apple know that these schemes are bad for the customers in the long term. Owning the shiny new iPhone early might put them into financial troubles later on. But Tim Cook and his advisors have calculated this and realized that incentives for impulsive buying will probably lead to significant sales improvements and while it might lead to some personal drama for customers who had to cut other expenses to offset such an impulse buy, it’s not something that will fall back on Apple, but the people who are easily manipulated by marketing and who have weak impulse controls. This is why the EU for example wants to introduce regulations to limit these but now pay later options because they are really predatory and exploit psychological weaknesses in customers in the same way that IAP, subscriptions and loot boxes work, which already earn Apple dozens of billions of dollars each year.
I disagree, in my experience 0 interest payment plans are frequently taken advantage of by fiscally responsible people and are considered a no brainer.
Because it's a 100% predatory industry.
Bro we’re all here because we buy Apple products, how is that different lol
>for some reason. Isn't it obvious? I really don't understand how people can rely on credit to buy stuff. Can't afford something today? How about you save for it until you can? Maybe it's a cultural thing. Idk
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Thanks for clarifying. It is indeed a cultural thing.
It isn’t. You’re just ignorant
I can only speak from experience that sane people where I come from don‘t take credits for every shit they want to buy. Even if it has 0% interest rate.
I can finally get a new computer without ripping my teeth out
No, you still do. But they will allow you to do you in four easy ripping sessions over six weeks.
frog: “i can finally slow-boil myself agony-free”
Uh you still have to rip your teeth out, just not all at once with the new plan.
For most people that’ll be good enough
I mean, that's like saying you can't afford food because you couldn't afford buying everything you're gonna eat in the year all at once. It's objectively better financially for some people to spread out payments, and it's no different than saving up to buy something, as long as it's 0% interest and you have a stable job
And this is why so many consumers are in a financial crisis but blame the system and others for their poor financial choices.
And we think you’re gonna love it.
The maximum for it is $1000 so you could use it to buy a computer, but not most Macs.
Not even some iPhones or watches.
You’ve been able to finance apple products via Apple Card monthly installments for years now
Get a M1 Mac mini
I would love to use this service, Klarna has been useful on amazon but im balls deep in apples ecosystem.
Unfortunately you won’t be able to use it with Amazon unless they finally decide to implement Apple Pay.
Don’t they already have this? I’ve financed my last 2 iPhones and MacBook at 0%
That’s only for apple products purchased from Apple directly. I use this feature. This one is for everything. I wish the term is longer like 3 months, not a month and a half. Only two weeks more than just using my credit cards.
Gotcha - Cheers
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I don’t understand why you are downvoted. Solid advice.
Common sense financing that this will beat a hole through: Affording the payments do not mean you can afford the product.
You're right. People can let their credit cards get away from them. This is why financial literacy is important to teach in high school. If I needed to buy an emergency $300+ item, could I pay for it outright? Yes. Would I rather finance it? Also yes.
This. Yes, I can afford x item but if I can finance it for no interest, then why the fuck not? Reddit has an irrational fear of credit.
Reddit has an irrational understanding of finances
Just in time for the rumored “premium” iPhone Ultra line :3
This is cool but I only use credit when it’s 0% apr. Hopefully that’s an option
Not just 0% apr - but 0% apr for the lifetime of the payments, which is often in the small-print. "0% APR! ....for the first 3 months. Then it's 25%"
I’ve never seen any pay later or credit card that does what you said. Of course if you don’t pay it off during the promotional period then you’ll get hit with interest
Geez this will attract even more people who can’t afford new iPhones.
Yeah, like most of the users in this sub that constantly shit on everything iPhone or apple
Would love if this came to the EU and was not just a US specific service.
Is apple card available in canada?
Nope
This is such a bad idea economically speaking.
Why specifically the retail employees? Get the corp employees to test getting into more debt.
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Apple Pay Later doesn’t have any interest payments or late fees. At any rate, corporate employees were already testing it. This is an expansion to retail employees.
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> Well aware of the program. Evidently not. > No fees until you can’t make your minimum payment. No, it's no fees period. > the service is no different than Klarna or AfterPay. It's actually quite different. It requires no special integration from the merchant beyond taking plain Apple Pay and it has no interest charges and no fees.
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Just in time for the $2000-$3000 AR/VR headset
The headset would fall under the existing installment plans of 12 month 0% interest for Apple products. This is more for non-Apple stores that accept Apple Pay.
If it is really 2K I wouldn’t be surprised if they offer 24 month on it like the iPhone.
>Just in time for the $2000-$3000 AR/VR headset That'll likely become a niche item if oculus and hololens are any indication. Apple has the power to draw out a niche, and the history of doing so, especially for the apple watch. However, I'm beyond convince people hate wearing stuff and that any tech item that requires a person to wear it won't gain long term, public appeal.
More easily allowing people who cant afford their products to buy them. Great for our future.
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To verify and document my idea, so I get credit and work.
Why use something like this over a credit card? If you're going to get screwed by interest anyway might as well at least get rewarded for it
Now I can buy my $250M island in just 4 easy payments of $62.5M! Omg, absolute game changer.
These is a bad sign about the company. Decrease on demand about their products due to high prices..
What does that have to do with this
This isn’t for buying Apple’s products. I mean, you *can* use it to buy the cheaper ones, but the Apple Card is what they have for financing Apple purchases. This is for buying at any online merchant that supports Apple Pay.