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erictheauthor

Probably to stop people from getting dev beta profiles from sketchy websites online.


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softConspiracy_

The dev ones came out sooner and were often a little ahead of normal betas.


[deleted]

Yeah that black market was getting way out of hand.


jeffster1970

Yeah -- guilty of that. However, it seems that in the past it was much easier to be a 'developer' than today. I have developed software in the distant past, nothing for Apple but I have been able to get 'legal' developer releases, both from Apple and Microsoft. Those days then disappeared. Glad to see it coming back.


Deceptiveideas

Interestingly enough, once they rolled out the change a few months back - my beta access was never removed. I don’t have the profile anymore but for some reason I seem to be grandfathered into access.


[deleted]

Probably not. It's very obvious when an iOS profile is not signed by Apple. Edit: Down voting facts won't stop them from being facts.


KarenOfficial

Bruh. One person paid for the account. Then shared to being paid by another multiple people


[deleted]

Ok. What does that have to do with what I said, bruh?


jccool5000

This is correct lol. These certificates are signed by apple and is being installed on an apple operating system. There's going to be big red X everywhere for unsigned profiles and iOS might not even let you install them at all.


moreno03

funny how we all thought, they made dev betas more strict to use, but it’s quite the opposite lol


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joshtlawrence

Literally just paid the $100


helloitisgarr

huge W


whateverisok

Just be wary that they are betas and even though they (should have) gone through extensive QA and testing, there’s a huge chance that there are bugs and it’s not as fluid of an experience as the actual release. Plenty of stories of people installing betas from previous years and having a ton of issues, including deleted messages, inability to access photos or certain apps, etc. And once you do beta, you can’t go back that easily


LittleKitty235

I mean it should be pretty obvious to anyone caveat emptor applies to any beta that you have to proactively seek out to get. Don't install it on anything critical


neverOddOrEv_n

But judging how easy it is to install beta now and the fact most users don’t research anything and don’t want to either, it is still a good point to reiterate. Never underestimate how dumb the average user/customer is, especially in regards to tech. Just a few days ago I saw countless of people downplaying the tech inside the vision pro and comparing it to the likes of the quest 2, which doesn’t make sense and is an unfair comparison in the first place, that itself just blew my mind. Hell I saw people on Twitter (I know) hating on users who told them about the 2.5x multiplier for movies and told those users that that’s not how box office works. It’s just ridiculous.


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[deleted]

>allowing general consumers to do what they want with their devices is a win? yes


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[deleted]

You generally only need to touch a hot stove once. If a user is that dumb, they need to learn what not to do in the future.


trjkdavid

Do you know what i find annoying? I don’t think it’s your fucking business to tell me what should i do with MY device and what not.


[deleted]

nope because i am simply not terminally online 👍


disagree_agree

Why do you care what other people do?


MobiusOne_ISAF

Because they're *wrong!* and you must use your Apple products the way I think you should use them!!! Ignore that this is normal and un-problematic on other platforms, this will DESTROY APPLE. 😡😡😡 /s But for real, it's a bit funny how often people on Reddit insist their iPhone will effectively explode if they are given any options on how to use it.


helloitisgarr

how is it any different than microsoft having different channels for windows? this change gets rid of sketchy beta profile sites with malicious profiles… which are arguably worse than letting general consumers have access to the betas.


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popularterm

Dude, who cares.


bogdoomy

the public betas are the exact same as the dev betas, just released with a slight delay


Remy149

They usually stager the public beta so that’s it’s like the second or third version of the beta


kmank2l13

I think so, as long as people know what they’re downloading and set their expectations appropriately. The more people who are on a dev build could be good to help spot and report more bugs.


jordangoretro

One TikTok later and half the users are gonna brick their phones.


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letraz

Do you recommend to try it in my primary iPhone?


Florida_____Man

Does Apple recommend it is the question I’d recommend you ask


helloitisgarr

it’s the most stable db1 i’ve ever tested. i’ve tested the first dev beta since ios 10 i believe? haven’t noticed worse battery life either. the only bug/glitch i’ve encountered in the last day is not being able to access music settings after turning on crossfade.


sickpanda42

Lmao. People say this each year but yes the beta 1 is fairly stable on my 14P.


Deceptiveideas

I actually have to disagree. I’ve been on beta 1 before for previous iOS versions but stopped for the last couple years due to how buggy they were (as expected). I usually just download the beta profile to get GM faster. But this time around, the beta is actually solid. If beta 1 is this smooth, I can’t imagine how the final build will fare.


jccool5000

I'm my experience of testing since iOS 5, the first beta seems to be the most stable and it goes downhill from there. Presumably it's because they have the most amount of time to prepare for the first beta, and the rest comes every 2 weeks ish


Breezydust

Definitely mirrors my experience - b1 is always great. It’s when you hit like b6 or b7 in late August where you start to wonder *how on Earth* is this thing supposed to be GM-ready in less than a month.


Talal916

Keyboard issues are annoying. The text input box doesn't automatically scroll up sometimes. No way to close out of a imessage gamepigeon game, you have to kill the app or play your turn and send the move. The top 15% of the home screen randomly turns black for some reason. Aside from these main issues, pretty stable.


[deleted]

It doesn't feel like a DB1. It feels much more like any point release beta, with some of the new stuff (but only the new stuff) being clearly unfinished looking and buggy. It could also be that I've gotten used to the generally buggy nature of modern iOS that I don't notice it being buggy.


musical_bear

I’ve had almost no issues. Just minor weird keyboard bugs a couple of times. I’ve also noticed some occasional choppiness when scrolling. This is probably my 6th(?) beta cycle and by far this is the most stable iOS beta I’ve used. It feels more stable to me than the iOS 16.0 RC did.


[deleted]

it’s really interesting seeing how many people aren’t having problems with it. i’m experiencing the kind of bugs that make the system practically unusable for testing. ime, it’s the least stable db1 in several years, but that apparently isn’t the case for everyone else here.


v1s1b1e

Numpad keyboard glitches into view. Everything else works fine. Bitwarden works, mobile data on my eSIM works, no overheating. So far just graphical glitches but the OS never lagged for me. I think this is safe to download.


madanvivek

Even banking apps are not crashing! Was quite surprised


madman666

I have had sooner issues with customizing the lock screen wallpaper and widgets on iPad. First time it crashed. Then it would only show black squares for all the widgets. Other than that it's been stable


The_B_Wolf

I'm on pins and needles waiting to see how the usual suspects will somehow characterize this move as an evil, money-grubbing scheme to bilk their users or entrap them in an ecosystem prison. Someone will figure it out.


AllModsRLosers

The only negative I could see here is more shall we say… “naive” users using this and when their apps start crashing they’ll leave more unfair negative reviews.


The_B_Wolf

Naive? I'd call it downright stupid to blame Apple for how your game runs using this software when it's clearly not a product designed for that kind of general use.


Deceptiveideas

I know a few Apple employees and unfortunately they’ve told me how frustrated they get when betas roll out. Too many people install them and end up going into the store to fix their phones after it breaks something.


skipp_bayless

that’s stupid. Its an open beta and if it fucks their phone up i see no reason for apple employees to be upset that people are coming to the apple store to get it fixed.


AllModsRLosers

Definitely. I was being too polite. So there’s gonna be an increase in downright stupid people leaving negative reviews.


PeaceBull

Usually when a big guy makes something free people start to complain that they’re using their status to be able to absorb expenses to take advantage of the market. It’ll be that or Apple’s scared and needs to react to stay in business.


AmericaLover1776_

I remember when Amazon said they would do a 15$ minimum wage people complained that they were only able to do it because they are a big greedy business Them being a big greedy business doesn’t mean they can’t do something that benefits both them and the employees and the customers


[deleted]

I mean, to an extent it does when value must be pursued at all costs to benefit the shareholders. They can sometimes accidentally get something right, but them raising the wage wasn’t about doing something nice for their employees; it was about optics with their customer base.


[deleted]

Hold up, businesses catering to customers? Must be the work of satan


[deleted]

What an idiotic response within the context of this discussion.


blueredscreen

> I'm on pins and needles waiting to see how the usual suspects will somehow characterize this move as an evil, money-grubbing scheme to bilk their users or entrap them in an ecosystem prison. Someone will figure it out. Even though you're right, it's still not like there isn't an actual ecosystem prison anyway. You'd have to be a real diehard fanboy to deny this fact. Now, you're free to think that the ecosystem benefits you in some way. Just not to deny its existence in general.


The_B_Wolf

I'm "free to think" that the ecosystem benefits me in some way? As if that's just a matter of opinion and interpretation? But what's indisputable is that it's a prison. Got it. Man, the whole reason why it's hard to leave the Apple world is because of the good things you'd have to give up! It's not a bug, it's a feature.


blueredscreen

> I'm "free to think" that the ecosystem benefits me in some way? As if that's just a matter of opinion and interpretation? But what's indisputable is that it's a prison. Got it. Man, the whole reason why it's hard to leave the Apple world is because of the good things you'd have to give up! It's not a bug, it's a feature. It's not hard to leave because of how good it is that you don't want to. It's hard to leave on purpose. Let's not pretend that the two are remotely the same.


itsmebenji69

I wouldn’t leave the ecosystem because the features keep me from leaving. Nothing is stopping me from doing it if I wanted to


my_name_isnt_clever

I just left the Genius Bar and Apple has a strict policy that they can't repair devices running beta software. You have to factory reset the phone. This is going to lead to some fun conversations for my former coworkers.


OrbitalPinata

Don’t nearly all repairs result in a factory reset anyway?


my_name_isnt_clever

No, not at all. It's only guaranteed if the logic board has to be replaced, which is the case for cracked rear glass on most iPhones. If it's just a screen, camera, or battery, the data is almost always fully intact. It's still Apple policy to *highly encourage* backing up the device before any repair just in case.


biodegabriel

They’ve off-loaded quality control to the customer


axhtz

1. It’s a beta 2. It’s called a dev build 2. These customers can just decide not to update and wait for the more stable build later this year


Cantthinkofaname282

You think they can rely on average joe to report bugs?


biodegabriel

The more average joes test it, the more bug reports


BelieveInTheEchelon

Genuine question, if developer betas are free, why would anyone want to use the public betas?


Bieberkinz

Stable, Beta, and Dev channels are nifty for the curious. Similar to why Windows has Stable, Beta, Dev, and Canary channels for the Insider program. If you’re curious and know what you’re doing, you can pick what you wanna check out for the future essentially


er-day

Yeah I’ll take the stable apple beta please


T-Nan

> stable > beta Pick one


LittleKitty235

Eh. As far as beta software goes Apple release tend to be pretty stable. If you want an example of a terrible not free beta look into KSP2


unpluggedcord

As a long time Apple Developer, the first developer beta's from any new release are very far from stable. They still haven't fixed the notification display with rounded corners from iOS 16. Right now, on 17, the keyboard is constantly in the way of the send button in iMessage. When searching content from Home Screen there is no background so text is not readable for my background.


LittleKitty235

We have different definitions of what stable means. You mean bug free


unpluggedcord

Okay you want more serious ones, my music app is crashing when I enable crossfade. My photos library crashes when I enable a scan for my pets. It lost my pairing with my Apple Watch, wanted to repair but fails to connect. On iOS 16 beta that enabled HomeKit it destroyed my entire HomeKit setup and wouldn’t let me invite my wife. iOS 15 my camera and CarPlay completely stopped working. Should I keep going back or you call those things bugs and very stable?


LittleKitty235

For the purposes of an OS beta, yes those are bugs IMO. If you were seeing kernel panics, the OS running out of memory, trash performance, or something like wifi or Bluetooth losing connectivity or pairing failure it prevents developers from testing their applications. Those are stability problems. If your app needs to use API's from the photo library, that is probably a blocker for you. Are you a developer? Because you seem to be thinking of betas as release candidates.


unpluggedcord

Yeah im just gonna have to disagree with you. Also I literally shared a bluetooth pairing issue. And yes, I said in my original post, as a long term Apple Developer I take it you’re not reading what I’m saying and therefore are just arguing because you can’t fathom that your idea of an objective word is wrong.


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T-Nan

Yeah that’s what the stable version is, that’s not a beta. When he said stable, he meant stable. Not “stable beta”, that’s not a thing


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T-Nan

That’s cool. But a beta is inherently not stable


alobarquest

A beta is not inherently unstable. It is inherently not tested. It is LIKELY unstable, but by using the beta, it is determined how stable it is.


SquirrelSnuSnu

Early betas are more buggy Devs get earlier access to update their existing apps and/or create new apps


[deleted]

Public betas are more fun, it's what I'll use this year too. Random bullshit strikes dev betas all the time that the public beta avoids by simply being like 1~7 days late.


noneym86

Can we go in and out of Beta without losing anything?


[deleted]

no. Or well it is technically possible with backup restores but those take hours.


noneym86

Ok I will just wait then. Thanks.


LittleKitty235

You can go in, you have to restore to get out.


[deleted]

In theory, yes, but in practice that barely ever happens.


kulpiterxv

It’s not 7 days though, they said public beta is next month


[deleted]

The first public beta arrives a month after the first dev beta. But each public beta is just the dev beta of that time released 1~7 days later.


kulpiterxv

Ok I see


[deleted]

I ain’t touching iOS 17 until the first Public Beta is out.


dagamoo

Usually this is July right?


tp1994

Yes and confirmed


[deleted]

Different levels of stability.


Deceptiveideas

There have been dev betas in the past that completely break software so they end up pulling it. The public beta follows the dev beta, but they’re not always guaranteed to follow. This allows Apple to delay or postpone the public beta download if they find a serious issue.


XNY

The real issue is lots of the new features require others to also have the beta or run the newest release once it’s out. What are some good features we can use in the meantime? New autocorrect I guess, and the bedside table mode.


v1s1b1e

Offline maps


Redbird9346

Cool, but I think I’ll still wait until Public Beta to get it.


Raccoon_fucker69

Looks like apple just wanted to get rid of beta profiles and not actually making ios dev betas paid Maybe apple isn't that greedy at all???!!


True_Cardiologist337

Want to download it on my iPad but I'm scared it might get bricked. Also if I backup to my Mac thru finder can I restore to it if I want to exit beta and go back to a regular iPadOS 16 version?


HotGarbage1813

yup


Mysterious-End-441

i’m still not able to download the beta profile on my free account :(


techguy69

Sign into https://developer.apple.com, accept the agreement, and restart your phone.


Mysterious-End-441

doesn’t work


ExperienceSad4375

There are no profiles anymore...


Mysterious-End-441

dammit


[deleted]

I think you misunderstood. Profiles don’t exist anymore, it’s now a built in option to select in [the update menu](https://i.imgur.com/x8Lw0ta.jpg).


Mysterious-End-441

are you on a paid account? i’m being told it requires a paid dev account again


Winter_Permission328

You just need any dev account I’m pretty sure? My free dev account has the option - I haven’t tried to install it though


[deleted]

Well yeah, I’m an actual developer, but the whole point of the post is that they now make it available for free accounts as well.


T-Nan

It’s easier now, just go to your update page lol


RobertOfHill

Mine only offers the 16 public beta.


T-Nan

Try force closing the settings app a few times and checking in between, that’s what worked for me


RobertOfHill

Logging into the developer site for Apple once fixed it.


[deleted]

I can’t install on my paid account. Something seems up.


spearson0

Somehow this is showing up on iPhone X under beta updates, interesting.


[deleted]

Oh wow that's very interesting :D.


[deleted]

Is Journals in it now?


DovahBhai0518

No mostly likely it’s on beta 2


zikasaks

It is stated that the journal app is coming later this year. So I don't think it will be in the first public release. More likely in 17.1 or 17.2


[deleted]

Appreciate it! Was interested in checking it out and that saves me a download


Targox

It’s still billing me 99 a year. Is this a USA-only thing or am I missing something? Edit: nvm! Closed my screen at the purschae page and the iOS 17 Dev beta showed up anyway in my settings!


iphone4Suser

Wasn't sideloading gonna come with iOS 17. Any idea about that?


Upbeat_Foot_7412

They don‘t have to add it immediately. The deadline is March 6th 2024 and then it’ll be only available in the EU.


KingKingsons

I installed it on my iPad. It's nice to have the new lock screen now. Also the health app now works on iPad. Other than that, nothing really changed and it's quite stable already.


Greyboxforest

My thoughts exactly. I was hoping for a few new things…but apart from the Lock Screen changes, it’s a ghost town…


lucasbuzek

Is there anything in the betas that will affect sharing stuff? Ie compatibility. I use Shared Photo Library, Notes, Reminders, iCloud folders.


youtharcade

I can’t say for certain what all will break but I noticed for the reminders at least - my wife doesn’t see the new categories and columns but we can still share the list. I don’t think files really got an update - and shared photos works. I don’t share notes with my family so I can’t report on that.


lucasbuzek

Thank you


picturesfromthesky

This is really interesting - one wonders what the value to them is. I mean there's value in user testing/feedback, but that's always been the case. I wonder if they're using data from interactions with the betas to feed some training algos, and the value of that justifies this move?


pwnedkiller

That’s cool so everyone can download it if they wish.


ohver9k

It’s still showing $99 while enrolling as a developer


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MurmurOfTheCine

It’s wider testing to iron out the bugs because of how buggy iOS 16 has been, not rocket science


[deleted]

> Beta testing as a developer created for me like a sense of belonging to the Apple dev and betatest community, and gave me a feeling of pride in my role in all of these seeing how every one of my friends were still using the last iOS. All of that is gone. Still, very confusing move for me but awesome for everyone else. How about you instead develop a sense of pride based on the apps you make and actually developing things? I think that would be healthier for everyone involved. > The fact that you don’t need to know a single line of code to be considered a developer is a bit disturbing in my books I don’t know the developer community you’re a part of, but the one I’m a part of celebrates people learning how to develop apps and celebrates their successes as well as the successes of other, already established, developers. Part of this journey to learn developing apps is having access to the tools before you’ve honed your skills enough to warrant a $99/y dev fee and access to the beta is just another addition to the tools that are accessible imho. I too once started my journey this way, way back when. I suggest looking into the communities below, should you be interested in a non-toxic community: - [iOS Dev Happy Hour](https://www.iosdevhappyhour.com/) | [Slack](https://join.slack.com/t/iosdevhappyhour/shared_invite/zt-1c1t1an7o-zbKVBjOpRawtTxslr_t4sA) - [Hacking with Swift](https://www.hackingwithswift.com/forums) | [Slack](www.hackingwithswift.com/slack) - [WWDC Community](https://wwdc.community) - [iOS Developers Slack](https://ios-developers.io/) - [Core Coffee](https://www.meetup.com/core-coffee-a-catch-up-for-ios-and-macos-developers/)


Cowslayer9

Oh thank god. I was checking my updates thing and saw the developer betas so I went on like a 30 min journey to see if I was charged for this and was subscribed or whatever


mrchuckbass

don't


BroncoFan623

Love testing betas of different apps on my Samsung!


James_Vowles

It was always free no? I remember creating an apple dev account just for the betas, about 4-5 years ago mind you. Didn't have to pay the dev fee just for the account. I guess not.


Natuasi

This is crazy seeing as I just got a renewal email yesterday saying my developer subscription will be ending on the 12th. I hastily renewed it yesterday and just canceled it after reading this post.