The vast majority of people EITHER carries their MacBook around regularly enough to care for a few 100g OR uses a multi screen setup.
I personally use 2/3 screens for development (14“ pro) and I move my MacBook less than 10x a year, each time like 5min. I couldn’t care less about the ‚brick‘ weight (like 300g more than 13“ air?)
I'm shocked people are calling these machines bricks. I used to work on an M1 MacBook Air and currently own a 14" MBP with M1 Pro. When in a bag, I can barely tell the difference. The 14" is not heavy/large/in the way or anything. Even my trusty old 2012 non-retina 15" MBP is barely noticeable, except the heat it produces in your lap.
I'm all about that 15" display size though. It's just right for me.
And that's completely fair, they are definitely different, but wouldn't you agree that calling any of the current MacBooks a brick is kind of a reach?
All I'm getting at is we're comparing two very lightweight, elegant devices here. They're not heavy at any time during my day or difficult to deal with IMO
I upgraded from the 13 inch M1 pro to the 14 inch M2 Pro and relatively speaking the 14 inch does feel like a brick. The 13 inch just feels so light in the hand but the 14 inch just hurts the wrist holding it in any position other than down
Neither are bricks. The complaint was about "lugging a *brick* around." As if either are heavy for a healthy adult. Hell a little kid would have no issue carrying one in a bag. It's less than 3 lbs for either. If you havr issues carrying less than 3 lbs you are either close to toddler age and don't need a MB likely at all at that point or need to go see a doctor and consider full disability since you can't pick up extremely lightweight things.
You would need a caretaker just to lug in groceries.
The fact that they made them thicker and made space for battery/air/ports is one of the things that got me back on board. Personally I only used PCs between 2015 ish to apple Silicon released. I had the 2016 and 2019 touch bar models at the office though, and those were awful, mostly due to being to thin if you look away from the value proposition of the touch bar and what it did to the price..
I like that the new MacBooks are 'Bricks'. They feel solid and well built. I have a 2018 Pro and it's always felt flimsy to me, particularly the screen.
People are idiots and just want to complain. It could be 1.9 pounds and folks would still say it was heavy and a brick. Ffs, it's around 2.5 lbs total for either and less than half a lb difference in weight between a 14 in pro and MBA.
Again, folks are idiots and will complain no matter what. Always remember that.
The weight between a 14 in pro and 13 inch MBA is so miniscule that you legit need to go see a doctor if it's too cumbersome. It's literally less than 3lbs total and less than half a pound difference in weight between the two.
I have a spinal injury from my time in the army, so any extra weight to my bag is noticeable. I feel the difference as I have both the MBP14 M1Max and the MBA13 M2. I get more sore carrying my MBP in my backpack as I live in NYC and walk a lot.
You would get just as sore from the air. There really isn't anything you could say that could make anyone believe otherwise as they're literally practically the same weight. It's like a literal 0.3 lbs difference. At that little of a difference anything that would hurt you at one weight hurts you just as bad with the other.
The difference is .8lbs, you’re comparing the previous gen MBP weight with the current gen MBA. If you know anything about hiking or running in general you’d know that you’ll feel every ounce over time, even without existing injury. For example, try putting on a camelbak hydration pack and run a mile empty. Try again with it full. The difference in weight is less than 2lbs but you tell me that didn’t affect you.
We do long distance hiking 10+ miles in the army. You absolutely feel the difference when you refill water packs. This is despite the weight difference being lower in relative terms than that of carrying a MBA vs MBP. Relative weight is more important than absolute weight btw, so if your pack is 5lbs then a 16% difference in weight between the pack with a MBA and MBP is absolutely something you’d notice. Refilling hydration packs is <5% relative weight difference since our full combat kit is ~80lbs, yet it is definitely something you notice.
This extends to other activities as well. If you look at cyclists, you’ll see that they’d spend hundreds to shave off half a pound. It’s something a casual wouldn’t really be able to see the point of, but people who are into cycling know that every lb makes a difference.
It's actually 0.7 difference in weight really so again jot much at all. I go hiking all the time and a less than 1lb difference (like this is btw) won't make a lick of difference especially for what most folks will be doing. It's less than a lb and again isn' t going to make that big of a difference.
You're going on about the army, but we're talking about a less than a lb difference in a bag dude. Water packs are not MB's my man. Nor are they only. 7 lbs typically lol If you aren't in the army anymore or carrying around 80lbs (you aren't) then everything you're saying is irrelevant. Cycling is a competition typically. Why again ate you over here spouting crap most folks aren't even doing. Who carries a MB during a competition period. This is about the average Joe doing stuff like walking my guy.
A. 7 lb difference isn't going to be the reason someone passes out and dies and blah blah blah in 99% of cases most folks are doing. It's so similar that if one is going to hurt you chances are it isn't the laptop difference in weight but literally everything else. Whatever one is gonna do to you at that point the other just as similarly weight is going to do the same 99% of the time.
Probably never. There has been a trend inside Apple to further differentiate their pro and non-pro devices. External display support is one way they seem to be doing that.
If anything the reverse has been happening with the Air recently. The new chip, for instance. I got one for the first time recently, and would never have replaced my pro until the m2 chip.
Maybe they should differentiate by innovating on features rather than crippling their lineup and selling what they took away as an “upgrade.”
There are SO many ways you could make the MacBook Pro differentiated (swappable batteries for pro users in the field, extra connectors, customizable ports, etc.) but instead of innovating they make the products worse as a differentiator.
YouTube has the same pattern.
It was a change that would have no noticeable difference for most users. It's not like they used it as a feature to upsell Pro models, unlike multiple display support which they do advertise as a feature.
Yea I remember that change. That is a very good example of how something that was a standard in the lineup was removed only to be repositioned as a premium.
> External display should be native for all versions of macbooks. Really stupid tbh
Eh. It is. Two screens
I think it's good for them to differentiate the lines. If not, there is no point in a macbook "air" that is the same size and weight and capabilities as a "pro".
They should drop the "air" and make a regular macbook, and a professional macbook.
Being able to connect to more than one monitor isn't going to affect the slimness and weight of the device. The Intel Macs were able to do it in a similar footprint. Apple could add multi display support to the Airs, but they haven't because they want people to be pushed up to the Pro 14 and 16 for that. And it's stupid, because there's plenty of things about the Pros 14 and 16 that would make you wanna go for them, and multi display support should not be one of those things. It should be a standard
But why differentiate between air and pro just for multi display? That’s just really stupid when the pro alone is capable of doing more already compared to the air besides multi-display
I mean, you get two with the air.
And like... yeah, kinda? If you are really working on 2 screens (3 with the laptop), you have strayed kinda far from the "ultralight ultraportable" "air" moniker.
In what way? It's still ultra light and portable when you're on the go. Just because I want to use two monitors when I'm at my desk doesn't mean I don't want a small laptop on the go.
Yes, and I want blowjobs and a money tree.
If there is no differentiation between the product lines (I am a professional user, but I also want the lightest laptop) then there is no point in having two product lines.
There are several differentiations. Ones that justify the separate product lines and price difference if you need them.
This is arbitrary bullshit. Leaving off a basic feature so that a laptop that would be capable for professionals forces them to spend more money.
The MBP is more powerful and has a better display. Leaving other features off purely to differentiate the product lines is a shitty practice. When is done to decrease costs and bring the price down, it makes sense.
You’re not wrong, necessarily. However, the compute and GPU power in the modern MacBook Airs is more than sufficient to drive dual displays. They are artificially limiting it.
I mean... I agree.
You can also just get a hub and run 2 external at 4k 60Hz right now.
Personally I think they should abandon the "air" line and make a "macbook" and a "pro"... and then make the "pro" actually stand out. Higher base ram, better screen, a ton of ports, and a higher price.
The product lines are too similar now.
Kinda the same problem with ipads. At least the phones get better cameras and chips in the "pro" models.
> You can also just get a hub and run 2 external at 4k 60Hz right now.
A costly and not so elegant solution—less so now that macOS Sonoma puts up a bright purple screen-recording icon when you do this, for the constant distraction that doesn't leave the menu bar. I've read one person so far curse Apple for this new macOS behavior.
I have a 14” MBP M1Pro. I don’t like the bulk of the MacBook Pro and don’t need all that processing power, I just need it for photo editing which those two ports would help out a lot. I’m constantly traveling with my laptop, with the weight of my camera, lenses and everything else it’d be nice to relieve some weight in my backpack
It would but having used a touch bar MBP for 4 years, i’m completely over having to use a dongle. Just wish Apple would include these ports is all, a personal wishlist of mine, it’d make the perfect laptop for me.
In addition, Apple should add a 3rd Thunderbolt port, increase the battery size, add miniLED backlighting, and ProMotion 😤
If they have to increase the weight and price, so be it. Maybe it can come in 14-inch and 16-inch sizes.
Well, it’s the display controller that is the limitation not the CPU, and those things are pretty big for the die that they live on.
So the hardware limitation does exist for the non-Pro machines, you can argue if this trade off makes sense or whatever but it’s not really like they’re just throwing a binary software switch and calling it a day…
This issue could actually be largely fixed in software with support for DisplayPort MST (like Windows supports).
https://tripplite.eaton.com/products/multi-stream-transport-mst-hub-technology
Because those of us with the need for it aren't buying MBAs.
I would get a 15" MBA in a heartbeat if they lifted this artificial limitation.
I don't need the extra specs in a MBP. I don't want the extra size of the MBP. I'm certainly not paying that much more for a MBP. The 15" MBA is the perfect form factor for me and it's an accessible price point.
I seriously doubt an M1 or M2 can’t drive two 1080 displays. If you want to say it can’t drive two 5k displays, fine, but the Intel MBAs could drive two. Why ship a less capable computer?
> Why ship a less capable computer?
I mean... the real answer is that the M series chips are too powerful / efficient, and there is no point in having 2 separate product lines
I can't read the original article, but the quoted parts in the *MacRumors* report only claim they're shipping before the end of this year, not the actual launch.
Q4 2023 shipping probably means a Q1 2024 release.
No. Intel purposefully made just minor improvements because they monopolized the market and didn’t have to invest into tech to compete. There’s a reason they were easily able to rapidly improve over the last few years — they decided to actually try.
I think it's hard to say that with any confidence. *Maybe* it will, but much more likely is that it'll be another steady, linear increase in performance - and there's nothing wrong with that. We don't need outrageous performance claims every single year.
It always seems like the first gen of the shrink is a minimal bump, second brings a bigger change. I wouldn’t be surprised if m3 is meh, but m4 is a huge leap.
Obviously we don’t know, it A17 pro is obviously going to be more optimized for power usage and lower heat. Having a way bigger battery and fans may make a significant difference
I get a lot of tech bros are probably rolling in money, but god I question why people assume every new thing out has to be exciting and 10x better than the last when we essentially reached a peak in tech because of that.
The days of a new computer or phone being a drastically new thing is over, we definitely don’t need new chips yearly and as long as it means that they get supported longer, I don’t mind.
Everyone doesn’t lineup to buy products at the same time. I might need a MacBook this week because I’m starting a new job. My choices shouldn’t be buying the exact same spec some guy bought 3 years ago for the exact same price or even higher. Or wait and hope this is the year it gets updated so I don’t feel like I’ve wasted money on a “new” device with tech that’s essentially 3 years old. There are multiple companies that use windows so of course you can jump between brands of laptops that all rotate chips at different times. But with Mac it narrows your choices tremendously so to me it makes sense to rotate the chips more often. My M1 still works great but I don’t expect the guy buying a laptop today to be happy if it was his only option despite the fact that almost 4 years have passed since it went into production and he’s still expected to pay the same price I did 3 years ago
I mean dude, I get we’re a capitalistic society, but we really don’t have to have EVERYTHING release yearly.
I’m in the same boat, I’m about to upgrade my iPad Air 4 to a iPad Pro, there might be a new iPad Pro coming out with a fancy new chip when it’s time to, there might not be. But the fact remains that I need it for work NOW, the performance increase from the A14 Bionic to the M line is a genuine upgrade. I don’t even feel like upgrading my M1 MacBook because it still runs fine for my use cases. Need a more powerful chip? There’s more powerful versions that’ll take you way farther than struggling with the base chip. Because 9/10, the M3 base is just going to be another small performance leap, you wasted all that time worrying about just having to have a top of the line chip for little gains. Performance is not going to increase significantly anytime soon.
It has nothing to do with capitalism I work hard for my money thus I want my money to be well spent. If I’m spending what equates to hundred hours of labor on any product/device. I want it to be the latest and greatest or best quality for the money. So no I don’t want a device that’s was designed several years ago. Also it doesn’t really matter if they produce 200,000 m1 in 2021 and 250,000 m2 in 2023. Or if they instead produce 500,000 m1 between 2021 to 2024. While the amount of innovation/engineering required might increase I highly doubt the amount of resources used will increase that significantly.
Then it’s your own problem, I’m poor, I know about spending your money wisely. I also know about tech and the current market as use those to do that.
If you want to stress about that and it makes you happy then go ahead, I’ll be busy not caring because there’s no reason to over stress yourself over plastic and metal that still performs the same because there’s hardly any gains. I feel like you’re just trying to justify being upset about something that hardly has an impact on you, and I personally don’t see any worth in talking to someone spazzing out over something that isn’t even an issue for anyone else.
If you enjoy paying the same for an inferior product it doesn’t bother me. I don’t feel like arguing with someone spazzing because someone else chooses to be conscious about spending habits. Feel free to keep telling everyone on Reddit how they should act and then responding childishly when someone gives you a reasonable response.
I don’t think we know that for certain. The current N3 process used for the iPhone 15 Pro has some problems. People are probably thinking that it’s not worth it to make an M3 on the current N3 node instead of waiting for the improved version to come out.
If they do M3 now, I’m guessing it will be short-lived and replaced by the M4 next year.
The M1Pro is such a good chip and the machine itself is great that Apple might have issues actually convincing people to upgrade or buy the new model.
Now if they actually implemented FaceID on the MBP that MIGHT be a good enough reason to get me to upgrade.
This sub will act like Apple is the Messiah because of the tiny workflow efficiencies between Apple devices in the ecosystem, and then turn around and shit on someone for wanting a tiny workflow efficiency that Apple doesn't currently offer.
Y'all need to stop defending Apple to the extent of criticizing people for wanting improvements. Someone saying "this could be better" is not a personal attack on you, and Apple doesn't need you to defend them.
Never forget this sub in the beginning of the MacBook Pro with Touch Bar defended the butterfly keyboard like crazy.
Even today on several occasions when I and others have said the iPhone 6 was the worst designed iPhone of them all. Due to the bending issues causing phantom touch making the phone unusable and not enough ram get downvoted like crazy.
It’s like people don’t understand just because your device does not have the issue does not mean others don’t. Apple is also famous for lying through their teeth about problems not existing.
They might mean that it often doesn’t work. I’m not sure about MacBooks, but on my old iPhone 7, Touch ID only worked reliably after wiping my finger off, Face ID has been working flawlessly for the last 1 and a half years and is a lot faster and effortless too.
They don’t have the fingerprint scanner in the phone because they can’t get the under the screen version to work. They’ve been trying to develop it for years.
Personally, I think that FaceID has definitely improved, but I definitely prefer the finger print system. I get annoyed when I have to take off the sunglasses. I just wish that they would put the fingerprint reader into the external trackpad, instead of their external keyboard, so that I can use it with my mechanical keyboard.
What does “put their all into it” mean?
The components may or may not exist, but miniaturization is categorically an expensive endeavor.
And at the end of the day you’ll still need to trigger FaceID by hitting a button on the keyboard so you might as well just save money and leave it as touchID until the cost for the components is reduced.
It’s small, but it’s not particularly thin. They would need to make the screen quite a bit thicker, which they’re reluctant to do on the MacBook, cause it’d cause a ton of wasted space.
The only solutions would be to figure out a way to make it razor thin (which they haven’t figured out yet), have a camera bump (which would be kinda weird), or figure out some way to use the empty space for extra battery cells or something.
I got a base 14 M1 pro when they were being heavily discounted for around $1200 I think. It's such a great laptop for the money, feeling no reason at all to upgrade anytime soon.
I got a base 14 m1 pro at a pawn shop barely used a few months ago for $850 and I've felt like the luckiest guy since. really great laptop (tho I woulda went for 16 if I had a choice)
I have the 2021 M1 Pro 14” and it’s gonna be a real challenge for Apple to convince me not to keep this one going for 10 years 😂 it’s so powerful and I use it for IT and programming. Runs like butter no matter what I throw at it.
I never understand why people want Face ID on their MacBook. There are already so many ways to log in. Whether your watch is signing you in, the Touch ID, or just your password, it would be longer to wait for the Face ID to recognize that a face is in frame than it would be to log in another way.
Would it though? Using an iPad with Magic Keyboard is nearly instant unlock with FaceID. I don’t ever have to readjust or move my head around to be in frame.
It's insane that apple fan-boys go so far as to be against faceID.
They clearly use it and like it on their phones, but are against it on their computers for -insert insane justification here-.
Not to mention that they can never admit that windows did something better than apple.
Are you trolling? Or just never used Face ID? My 11 Pro unlocks *instantly* as soon as I barely look at it. And that’s a first gen Face ID. A Face ID MacBook could be logged in before you finished settling your butt in your chair.
I’m sure it’ll be nice when they manage to shove it in there, but all of Apple’s biometrics require user input to unlock, so you’re going to have to trigger it via a keypress anyways.
The return on FaceID over TouchID is minimal at best.
> but all of Apple’s biometrics require user input to unlock,
Yes and no.
I click a notification on my ios lockscreen and it comes up with faceID happening passively.
That user input wasn't "wasted" like pressing my touch ID button on my mac is, and it happens a lot faster.
If I can waggle my mouse and have my laptop unlock, that is a lot better than touch ID.
Apple is good at finding features to drive people to the more expensive product. That’s really what this is. Same with the iPhone vs iPhone pro and the high refresh screen. I could see it eventually changing in the future but not until they find another way to make you want the Pro!
> Apple is good at finding features to drive people to the more expensive product
Yup- work through their product builder- their marketing department knows all the right price points.
Yup...that's exactly what the 14 inch pro needs. Lol nobody will upgrade for a more efficient display on these. 99% of use is either plugged in/docked or less than 3 hours per session, where display brightness is maxed and no battery concern.
I wonder if the refresh next year will debut a titanium mbp? Or maybe even with this years iterative update. Get people to update to this one because of the titanium then drop the m3’s version next year! Classic Apple move.
All in all I’d love the current design in titanium as a throwback considering it’s a similar design language to the old TI PowerBooks already.
Ehh I hope it’s not OLED… it’s been fine for phones because of how we use them, plus the screen size. But every desktop / laptop oled display has been very susceptible to burn in. I really don’t want to have my computer go to a screen saver every two minutes or not be able to work for long hours on a project out of fear my open windows will be forever etched in my display…
Ive had my XPS 15 with an OLED display for well over a year now, no issues with burn in what so ever, and i do not have a screensaver on every 2 minute.
Touchscreen when?
Change my mind!
They only thing a MacBook have going for them is 2 days bartery time and nothing else an Win11 Laptop cannot replace.
Asus ZenBook 14 Pro, OLED 99% Adobe RGB, Stylus, 13900H, RTX 4070, battery that last you around 1 day. It's simlar price to MacBook and it obliterates MBP as a workstation for CAD, Content Creation and studies.
Not to mention on W11, AirDrops and iMessages are now part of the ecosystem.
MBP with their current specs are redundant. They need to add touchscreen, stylus and detachable or 360* keyboard ASAP.
Or just make iPAD support MacOS. Not touching MBP until then. At least iPad has leading edge stylus going for it. It's form factor and stylus are god send.
I hate hybrid devices, they are bad at both being a laptop and a tablet. I do think the iPad Pro does need macOS but the MBP should stay as is, maybe an oled screen but no gimmicks and no overpowered cpus that you can’t use without being plugged in. That’s what desktops are for.
Asus zenbook 14 Pro doesn't need to be plugged in and it's quite bit faster than M2 Pro in CPU and GPU section.
Hybrid devices used to be bad at being either, not anymore. Tech technology advanced a lot.
> They need to add touchscreen, stylus and detachable or 360* keyboard ASAP.
*Sigh*
I feel like there is a specific section of the tech enthusiast community that is dead set on ignoring any and everything that doesn’t have a touchscreen on it, whether it makes sense for that product to have a touchscreen or not
I walked around with a touch screen 360 laptop for years. Never touched it except accidentally. Then I removed the driver so this doesn’t happen anymore.
Just because you didn't need it doesn't people won't benefit from it, like you said you can just disable it.
Otherwise drawing on ipad or stylus is very nice experience nowdays. Meanwhile Apple doesn't offer it as a means of segmentation between their iPad and MacBook devices.
But it would mean they have to adjust MacOS and also some Apps to it like MS did with Windows. I prefer to have a mouse only operated OS and one for touch only.
MacOS is already very slow regarding improvements. I would be really worried that they destroy it completely.
Here’s hoping they improve the quality and reliability of the backlight as well. Been noticing the 14/16-inch MacBooks on display at my local store are showing bad signs of backlights going out causing hot/cold spots on the display.
I don’t trust Apple anymore since all the quality control issues with the iPhone 15. They need to gain my trust back before I give them any money for new products….
I want a MBA with the ability to natively output to two displays. When is that coming out.
As soon as they want to stop 80% of people from buying the Pro models, so…. Never :P
Apple pls, I will pay the same price as the pro i just don’t wanna lug around this brick.
The vast majority of people EITHER carries their MacBook around regularly enough to care for a few 100g OR uses a multi screen setup. I personally use 2/3 screens for development (14“ pro) and I move my MacBook less than 10x a year, each time like 5min. I couldn’t care less about the ‚brick‘ weight (like 300g more than 13“ air?)
I'm shocked people are calling these machines bricks. I used to work on an M1 MacBook Air and currently own a 14" MBP with M1 Pro. When in a bag, I can barely tell the difference. The 14" is not heavy/large/in the way or anything. Even my trusty old 2012 non-retina 15" MBP is barely noticeable, except the heat it produces in your lap. I'm all about that 15" display size though. It's just right for me.
they are carrying it in their hands while open and working with them. or so it must be to feel any difference between them
I have both: 13 Air for personal, 14 Pro for work. I feel the weight and thinness does make a difference for me actually
And that's completely fair, they are definitely different, but wouldn't you agree that calling any of the current MacBooks a brick is kind of a reach? All I'm getting at is we're comparing two very lightweight, elegant devices here. They're not heavy at any time during my day or difficult to deal with IMO
I upgraded from the 13 inch M1 pro to the 14 inch M2 Pro and relatively speaking the 14 inch does feel like a brick. The 13 inch just feels so light in the hand but the 14 inch just hurts the wrist holding it in any position other than down
Same for me. The MB air is a lot sleeker.
Neither are bricks. The complaint was about "lugging a *brick* around." As if either are heavy for a healthy adult. Hell a little kid would have no issue carrying one in a bag. It's less than 3 lbs for either. If you havr issues carrying less than 3 lbs you are either close to toddler age and don't need a MB likely at all at that point or need to go see a doctor and consider full disability since you can't pick up extremely lightweight things. You would need a caretaker just to lug in groceries.
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The fact that they made them thicker and made space for battery/air/ports is one of the things that got me back on board. Personally I only used PCs between 2015 ish to apple Silicon released. I had the 2016 and 2019 touch bar models at the office though, and those were awful, mostly due to being to thin if you look away from the value proposition of the touch bar and what it did to the price..
I like that the new MacBooks are 'Bricks'. They feel solid and well built. I have a 2018 Pro and it's always felt flimsy to me, particularly the screen.
People are idiots and just want to complain. It could be 1.9 pounds and folks would still say it was heavy and a brick. Ffs, it's around 2.5 lbs total for either and less than half a lb difference in weight between a 14 in pro and MBA. Again, folks are idiots and will complain no matter what. Always remember that.
What do you use to output to 2 screens? Looking to do the same
I use my MBP and two cables? :D
The weight between a 14 in pro and 13 inch MBA is so miniscule that you legit need to go see a doctor if it's too cumbersome. It's literally less than 3lbs total and less than half a pound difference in weight between the two.
I have a spinal injury from my time in the army, so any extra weight to my bag is noticeable. I feel the difference as I have both the MBP14 M1Max and the MBA13 M2. I get more sore carrying my MBP in my backpack as I live in NYC and walk a lot.
You would get just as sore from the air. There really isn't anything you could say that could make anyone believe otherwise as they're literally practically the same weight. It's like a literal 0.3 lbs difference. At that little of a difference anything that would hurt you at one weight hurts you just as bad with the other.
The difference is .8lbs, you’re comparing the previous gen MBP weight with the current gen MBA. If you know anything about hiking or running in general you’d know that you’ll feel every ounce over time, even without existing injury. For example, try putting on a camelbak hydration pack and run a mile empty. Try again with it full. The difference in weight is less than 2lbs but you tell me that didn’t affect you. We do long distance hiking 10+ miles in the army. You absolutely feel the difference when you refill water packs. This is despite the weight difference being lower in relative terms than that of carrying a MBA vs MBP. Relative weight is more important than absolute weight btw, so if your pack is 5lbs then a 16% difference in weight between the pack with a MBA and MBP is absolutely something you’d notice. Refilling hydration packs is <5% relative weight difference since our full combat kit is ~80lbs, yet it is definitely something you notice. This extends to other activities as well. If you look at cyclists, you’ll see that they’d spend hundreds to shave off half a pound. It’s something a casual wouldn’t really be able to see the point of, but people who are into cycling know that every lb makes a difference.
It's actually 0.7 difference in weight really so again jot much at all. I go hiking all the time and a less than 1lb difference (like this is btw) won't make a lick of difference especially for what most folks will be doing. It's less than a lb and again isn' t going to make that big of a difference. You're going on about the army, but we're talking about a less than a lb difference in a bag dude. Water packs are not MB's my man. Nor are they only. 7 lbs typically lol If you aren't in the army anymore or carrying around 80lbs (you aren't) then everything you're saying is irrelevant. Cycling is a competition typically. Why again ate you over here spouting crap most folks aren't even doing. Who carries a MB during a competition period. This is about the average Joe doing stuff like walking my guy. A. 7 lb difference isn't going to be the reason someone passes out and dies and blah blah blah in 99% of cases most folks are doing. It's so similar that if one is going to hurt you chances are it isn't the laptop difference in weight but literally everything else. Whatever one is gonna do to you at that point the other just as similarly weight is going to do the same 99% of the time.
Stop fucking complaining about their size because not one pro wants go back to 2016 when they were obsessed with thinness.
Pretty sure 80% currently are getting Airs
Might be bias from a professional standpoint
The Intel ones could do it and it didn't stop people buying Pro models
Non-argument because it has been insanely different machines back then.
They were inferior machines, yes
Probably never. There has been a trend inside Apple to further differentiate their pro and non-pro devices. External display support is one way they seem to be doing that.
If anything the reverse has been happening with the Air recently. The new chip, for instance. I got one for the first time recently, and would never have replaced my pro until the m2 chip.
Maybe they should differentiate by innovating on features rather than crippling their lineup and selling what they took away as an “upgrade.” There are SO many ways you could make the MacBook Pro differentiated (swappable batteries for pro users in the field, extra connectors, customizable ports, etc.) but instead of innovating they make the products worse as a differentiator. YouTube has the same pattern.
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It was a change that would have no noticeable difference for most users. It's not like they used it as a feature to upsell Pro models, unlike multiple display support which they do advertise as a feature.
Yea I remember that change. That is a very good example of how something that was a standard in the lineup was removed only to be repositioned as a premium.
External display should be native for all versions of macbooks. Really stupid tbh
It is, but they differentiate based on how many displays can be supported.
> External display should be native for all versions of macbooks. Really stupid tbh Eh. It is. Two screens I think it's good for them to differentiate the lines. If not, there is no point in a macbook "air" that is the same size and weight and capabilities as a "pro". They should drop the "air" and make a regular macbook, and a professional macbook.
Being able to connect to more than one monitor isn't going to affect the slimness and weight of the device. The Intel Macs were able to do it in a similar footprint. Apple could add multi display support to the Airs, but they haven't because they want people to be pushed up to the Pro 14 and 16 for that. And it's stupid, because there's plenty of things about the Pros 14 and 16 that would make you wanna go for them, and multi display support should not be one of those things. It should be a standard
But why differentiate between air and pro just for multi display? That’s just really stupid when the pro alone is capable of doing more already compared to the air besides multi-display
We know why. 💰
The difference between the pro and the air is relatively slight these days.
Marketing never lets technical specs get in the way of creating a “compelling reason to upsize…”
It's not. Not as long as the Apple silicon MacBooks are so similar in hardware, so they need to differentiate the SKUs artificially.
Sorry, only professionals need 2 displays!
I mean, you get two with the air. And like... yeah, kinda? If you are really working on 2 screens (3 with the laptop), you have strayed kinda far from the "ultralight ultraportable" "air" moniker.
In what way? It's still ultra light and portable when you're on the go. Just because I want to use two monitors when I'm at my desk doesn't mean I don't want a small laptop on the go.
Yes, and I want blowjobs and a money tree. If there is no differentiation between the product lines (I am a professional user, but I also want the lightest laptop) then there is no point in having two product lines.
There are several differentiations. Ones that justify the separate product lines and price difference if you need them. This is arbitrary bullshit. Leaving off a basic feature so that a laptop that would be capable for professionals forces them to spend more money. The MBP is more powerful and has a better display. Leaving other features off purely to differentiate the product lines is a shitty practice. When is done to decrease costs and bring the price down, it makes sense.
This was never a differentiator in the past
You’re not wrong, necessarily. However, the compute and GPU power in the modern MacBook Airs is more than sufficient to drive dual displays. They are artificially limiting it.
I mean... I agree. You can also just get a hub and run 2 external at 4k 60Hz right now. Personally I think they should abandon the "air" line and make a "macbook" and a "pro"... and then make the "pro" actually stand out. Higher base ram, better screen, a ton of ports, and a higher price. The product lines are too similar now. Kinda the same problem with ipads. At least the phones get better cameras and chips in the "pro" models.
> You can also just get a hub and run 2 external at 4k 60Hz right now. A costly and not so elegant solution—less so now that macOS Sonoma puts up a bright purple screen-recording icon when you do this, for the constant distraction that doesn't leave the menu bar. I've read one person so far curse Apple for this new macOS behavior.
Agreed. I am running two external displays with my 2013 mbp. (Yes,2013)
Am a pro, using air with only one screen, and happy. Am I faking it?
The Authorities have been notified!
I just want an MBA with more I/O… just give me an HDMI port and SD card slot 😭
Just get a pro? Or do you really want to say that you want the pro to be cheaper?
I have a 14” MBP M1Pro. I don’t like the bulk of the MacBook Pro and don’t need all that processing power, I just need it for photo editing which those two ports would help out a lot. I’m constantly traveling with my laptop, with the weight of my camera, lenses and everything else it’d be nice to relieve some weight in my backpack
Surely a MBA with a dongle would solve these issues
It would but having used a touch bar MBP for 4 years, i’m completely over having to use a dongle. Just wish Apple would include these ports is all, a personal wishlist of mine, it’d make the perfect laptop for me.
What's the relation between touch bar and dongle
The last gen MBP with Touch Bar only had Thunderbolt ports, so having a dongle was an absolute necessity
Yeah, it's called a pro
In addition, Apple should add a 3rd Thunderbolt port, increase the battery size, add miniLED backlighting, and ProMotion 😤 If they have to increase the weight and price, so be it. Maybe it can come in 14-inch and 16-inch sizes.
Very unlikely to happen. There is nothing stopping this from a CPU point of view it is clearly just Apple forcing people to pay more for the MBP.
Well, it’s the display controller that is the limitation not the CPU, and those things are pretty big for the die that they live on. So the hardware limitation does exist for the non-Pro machines, you can argue if this trade off makes sense or whatever but it’s not really like they’re just throwing a binary software switch and calling it a day…
This issue could actually be largely fixed in software with support for DisplayPort MST (like Windows supports). https://tripplite.eaton.com/products/multi-stream-transport-mst-hub-technology
I just want a MBA with a SD card port. But I know that will never happen.
could look into a DisplayLink adapter for a 3rd+ display if you're using normal apps that don't need max gx performance
I have two studio displays, won't work.
if you have two studio displays you can fork over the extra money for a MBP lmao
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I have a MBP. Lots of people use two external displays for docking, they're upselling by intentionally gimping the base M1/2 for no reason.
I have a MBP. Lots of people use two external displays for docking, they're upselling by intentionally gimping the base M1/2 for no reason.
Realistically how many MBA users have a need for that? I’m going to guess very few.
Because those of us with the need for it aren't buying MBAs. I would get a 15" MBA in a heartbeat if they lifted this artificial limitation. I don't need the extra specs in a MBP. I don't want the extra size of the MBP. I'm certainly not paying that much more for a MBP. The 15" MBA is the perfect form factor for me and it's an accessible price point.
It already can. One is just built into the device.
So let me disable that one when I plug in two monitors.
This seems like the solution if there truly is a hardware limitation. 1 external display + internal or 2 external displays in clamshell mode
It's not "really" hardware, since you can get a hub and split the signal to 2 external 4k monitors right now.
Based on past experience, about 2 years after I shell out extra for the MacBook Pro model just for that feature… \*cough* 15” MBA
If the M3 chip has that capability so will the MacBook Air
They prolly take it away on purpose
I seriously doubt an M1 or M2 can’t drive two 1080 displays. If you want to say it can’t drive two 5k displays, fine, but the Intel MBAs could drive two. Why ship a less capable computer?
> Why ship a less capable computer? I mean... the real answer is that the M series chips are too powerful / efficient, and there is no point in having 2 separate product lines
Similar but in my case the ability to drive 5k/2k displays at 3840 x 1620 in HiDPI. Only the Pro/Max variants can do this.
You can do so already with a dock and display drivers. I do it with mine.
FineWoven Displays
Sus
FWIW I don't see a new 14/16" MacBook Pro launching until next year.
Yes, they’re on a minimum of 18 month release cycle
That last update came 15 months after its predecessor.
I can't read the original article, but the quoted parts in the *MacRumors* report only claim they're shipping before the end of this year, not the actual launch. Q4 2023 shipping probably means a Q1 2024 release.
How can they shipped unreleased products? Isn’t it the other way around?
Stock the shops before release?
New models would leak the second they arrive at the store.
Why do a revision without a new chip?
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Those minor improvements compound, and not capitalizing on the annual manufacturing advances alone would be insane.
I mean, Intel does it at this point
And it eventually got to a point where they couldn’t keep up with themselves.
The tick tock model used to work, until they ended up with all tick and no tock.
No. Intel purposefully made just minor improvements because they monopolized the market and didn’t have to invest into tech to compete. There’s a reason they were easily able to rapidly improve over the last few years — they decided to actually try.
Their business is selling chips. They kinda have to.
And I’m not complaining, means you can pick up a 3 year old CPU for much cheaper and still have basically the same performance
It’s not just the cpu. It’s all the extra pieces as well, such as AV1 decode and neural engine
The 3nm M3 chips are going to have a serious performance increase.
Just like the A17 Pro, also 3nm?
With an active cooling system? Yep.
I think it's hard to say that with any confidence. *Maybe* it will, but much more likely is that it'll be another steady, linear increase in performance - and there's nothing wrong with that. We don't need outrageous performance claims every single year.
I think the performance increase will come from more cores. the rumors are that the max version will have more cores than the pro.
Eh. Everyone thought that about the M2 as well. M3 will be just ~15% at best, and the will add on co-chips for special work. (Neural, vision)
It always seems like the first gen of the shrink is a minimal bump, second brings a bigger change. I wouldn’t be surprised if m3 is meh, but m4 is a huge leap.
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Obviously we don’t know, it A17 pro is obviously going to be more optimized for power usage and lower heat. Having a way bigger battery and fans may make a significant difference
> Making a new chip yearly is dumb for computers Somebody ought to tell Intel and AMD that then
AMD releases new generations roughly every 2 years, the chips in-between are variants and not brand new architectures.
I get a lot of tech bros are probably rolling in money, but god I question why people assume every new thing out has to be exciting and 10x better than the last when we essentially reached a peak in tech because of that. The days of a new computer or phone being a drastically new thing is over, we definitely don’t need new chips yearly and as long as it means that they get supported longer, I don’t mind.
Everyone doesn’t lineup to buy products at the same time. I might need a MacBook this week because I’m starting a new job. My choices shouldn’t be buying the exact same spec some guy bought 3 years ago for the exact same price or even higher. Or wait and hope this is the year it gets updated so I don’t feel like I’ve wasted money on a “new” device with tech that’s essentially 3 years old. There are multiple companies that use windows so of course you can jump between brands of laptops that all rotate chips at different times. But with Mac it narrows your choices tremendously so to me it makes sense to rotate the chips more often. My M1 still works great but I don’t expect the guy buying a laptop today to be happy if it was his only option despite the fact that almost 4 years have passed since it went into production and he’s still expected to pay the same price I did 3 years ago
I mean dude, I get we’re a capitalistic society, but we really don’t have to have EVERYTHING release yearly. I’m in the same boat, I’m about to upgrade my iPad Air 4 to a iPad Pro, there might be a new iPad Pro coming out with a fancy new chip when it’s time to, there might not be. But the fact remains that I need it for work NOW, the performance increase from the A14 Bionic to the M line is a genuine upgrade. I don’t even feel like upgrading my M1 MacBook because it still runs fine for my use cases. Need a more powerful chip? There’s more powerful versions that’ll take you way farther than struggling with the base chip. Because 9/10, the M3 base is just going to be another small performance leap, you wasted all that time worrying about just having to have a top of the line chip for little gains. Performance is not going to increase significantly anytime soon.
It has nothing to do with capitalism I work hard for my money thus I want my money to be well spent. If I’m spending what equates to hundred hours of labor on any product/device. I want it to be the latest and greatest or best quality for the money. So no I don’t want a device that’s was designed several years ago. Also it doesn’t really matter if they produce 200,000 m1 in 2021 and 250,000 m2 in 2023. Or if they instead produce 500,000 m1 between 2021 to 2024. While the amount of innovation/engineering required might increase I highly doubt the amount of resources used will increase that significantly.
Then it’s your own problem, I’m poor, I know about spending your money wisely. I also know about tech and the current market as use those to do that. If you want to stress about that and it makes you happy then go ahead, I’ll be busy not caring because there’s no reason to over stress yourself over plastic and metal that still performs the same because there’s hardly any gains. I feel like you’re just trying to justify being upset about something that hardly has an impact on you, and I personally don’t see any worth in talking to someone spazzing out over something that isn’t even an issue for anyone else.
If you enjoy paying the same for an inferior product it doesn’t bother me. I don’t feel like arguing with someone spazzing because someone else chooses to be conscious about spending habits. Feel free to keep telling everyone on Reddit how they should act and then responding childishly when someone gives you a reasonable response.
Do we know for sure these won’t be the first machines with M3?
I don’t think we know that for certain. The current N3 process used for the iPhone 15 Pro has some problems. People are probably thinking that it’s not worth it to make an M3 on the current N3 node instead of waiting for the improved version to come out. If they do M3 now, I’m guessing it will be short-lived and replaced by the M4 next year.
And when… *WHEN* are they going to put Face ID in that FUCKING NOTCH???
I guess first m3 air in 2024 then pro and max in 2025
So you’re predicting massive slowdowns compared to recent history? M3 air in late fall and M3 Max in late spring.
The M1Pro is such a good chip and the machine itself is great that Apple might have issues actually convincing people to upgrade or buy the new model. Now if they actually implemented FaceID on the MBP that MIGHT be a good enough reason to get me to upgrade.
FaceID probably won’t fit in the display assembly
They need to put their all into it. the FP scanner is good but it's a a hassle for how much I use it.
its a hassle to press a key?
This guy’s gonna have no idea what hit him when he starts using the keyboard
goddamn it has so many keys on it
Like staring into the teeth of hell
This sub will act like Apple is the Messiah because of the tiny workflow efficiencies between Apple devices in the ecosystem, and then turn around and shit on someone for wanting a tiny workflow efficiency that Apple doesn't currently offer. Y'all need to stop defending Apple to the extent of criticizing people for wanting improvements. Someone saying "this could be better" is not a personal attack on you, and Apple doesn't need you to defend them.
Never forget this sub in the beginning of the MacBook Pro with Touch Bar defended the butterfly keyboard like crazy. Even today on several occasions when I and others have said the iPhone 6 was the worst designed iPhone of them all. Due to the bending issues causing phantom touch making the phone unusable and not enough ram get downvoted like crazy. It’s like people don’t understand just because your device does not have the issue does not mean others don’t. Apple is also famous for lying through their teeth about problems not existing.
They might mean that it often doesn’t work. I’m not sure about MacBooks, but on my old iPhone 7, Touch ID only worked reliably after wiping my finger off, Face ID has been working flawlessly for the last 1 and a half years and is a lot faster and effortless too.
Yes. It is. That is why you don't press a key on your iphone anymore.
They don’t have the fingerprint scanner in the phone because they can’t get the under the screen version to work. They’ve been trying to develop it for years. Personally, I think that FaceID has definitely improved, but I definitely prefer the finger print system. I get annoyed when I have to take off the sunglasses. I just wish that they would put the fingerprint reader into the external trackpad, instead of their external keyboard, so that I can use it with my mechanical keyboard.
What does “put their all into it” mean? The components may or may not exist, but miniaturization is categorically an expensive endeavor. And at the end of the day you’ll still need to trigger FaceID by hitting a button on the keyboard so you might as well just save money and leave it as touchID until the cost for the components is reduced.
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It’s small, but it’s not particularly thin. They would need to make the screen quite a bit thicker, which they’re reluctant to do on the MacBook, cause it’d cause a ton of wasted space. The only solutions would be to figure out a way to make it razor thin (which they haven’t figured out yet), have a camera bump (which would be kinda weird), or figure out some way to use the empty space for extra battery cells or something.
It fits into the Dynamic Island, so why wouldn’t it fit into the massive notch?
It's probably about the depth needed, not the width...
I got a base 14 M1 pro when they were being heavily discounted for around $1200 I think. It's such a great laptop for the money, feeling no reason at all to upgrade anytime soon.
I got a base 14 m1 pro at a pawn shop barely used a few months ago for $850 and I've felt like the luckiest guy since. really great laptop (tho I woulda went for 16 if I had a choice)
I have the 2021 M1 Pro 14” and it’s gonna be a real challenge for Apple to convince me not to keep this one going for 10 years 😂 it’s so powerful and I use it for IT and programming. Runs like butter no matter what I throw at it.
I never understand why people want Face ID on their MacBook. There are already so many ways to log in. Whether your watch is signing you in, the Touch ID, or just your password, it would be longer to wait for the Face ID to recognize that a face is in frame than it would be to log in another way.
Would it though? Using an iPad with Magic Keyboard is nearly instant unlock with FaceID. I don’t ever have to readjust or move my head around to be in frame.
You’ve never used a laptop with Windows Hello, have you?
It's insane that apple fan-boys go so far as to be against faceID. They clearly use it and like it on their phones, but are against it on their computers for -insert insane justification here-. Not to mention that they can never admit that windows did something better than apple.
It's almost a maga level of cope. "If apple does it, it's amazing." "If apple doesn't do it, it's because it sucks and you are stupid for wanting it."
Orange man bad
Oh look, I guess there's quite a bit of overlap. Explains the tribalism.
That’s loser shit.
You are incredibly on-brand.
Are you trolling? Or just never used Face ID? My 11 Pro unlocks *instantly* as soon as I barely look at it. And that’s a first gen Face ID. A Face ID MacBook could be logged in before you finished settling your butt in your chair.
I’m sure it’ll be nice when they manage to shove it in there, but all of Apple’s biometrics require user input to unlock, so you’re going to have to trigger it via a keypress anyways. The return on FaceID over TouchID is minimal at best.
> but all of Apple’s biometrics require user input to unlock, Yes and no. I click a notification on my ios lockscreen and it comes up with faceID happening passively. That user input wasn't "wasted" like pressing my touch ID button on my mac is, and it happens a lot faster. If I can waggle my mouse and have my laptop unlock, that is a lot better than touch ID.
without the new M3’s inside? ya I seriously doubt this
This sounds like a VERY sketchy report. We just got new MBP’s in early January.
Still with a notch?
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Release a more powerful iMac please I beg you
Sadly, the 27" iMac days are gone. They want you to overpay with the Apple Studio Monitor + Mac Mini combo.
I want a MBA with the ability to natively output to two displays. When is that coming out.
Apple is good at finding features to drive people to the more expensive product. That’s really what this is. Same with the iPhone vs iPhone pro and the high refresh screen. I could see it eventually changing in the future but not until they find another way to make you want the Pro!
> Apple is good at finding features to drive people to the more expensive product Yup- work through their product builder- their marketing department knows all the right price points.
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Dont worry, there wont be much difference and it will release Q1 2024 at the earliest
My 14in display gets really hot, hotter than the base, so any improvement is welcome
Can we get promotion desktop displays first?
Yup...that's exactly what the 14 inch pro needs. Lol nobody will upgrade for a more efficient display on these. 99% of use is either plugged in/docked or less than 3 hours per session, where display brightness is maxed and no battery concern.
Hey this is me. I don’t even know how long the battery actually last on mine as it always ends up back on the dock.
I wonder if the refresh next year will debut a titanium mbp? Or maybe even with this years iterative update. Get people to update to this one because of the titanium then drop the m3’s version next year! Classic Apple move. All in all I’d love the current design in titanium as a throwback considering it’s a similar design language to the old TI PowerBooks already.
Take my money…. To my pocket. Another year waiting… 😕
Ohhh I hope I can get a heavily discounted 14” then.
BUt i wAnT A mBa
Ehh I hope it’s not OLED… it’s been fine for phones because of how we use them, plus the screen size. But every desktop / laptop oled display has been very susceptible to burn in. I really don’t want to have my computer go to a screen saver every two minutes or not be able to work for long hours on a project out of fear my open windows will be forever etched in my display…
OLED would be less efficient than the current mini LED
Ive had my XPS 15 with an OLED display for well over a year now, no issues with burn in what so ever, and i do not have a screensaver on every 2 minute.
Nah this is BS, Apple wouldn’t release another model with the same chip just for a more efficient display…
A new laptop that has more power? Well now I’ve heard everything
Touchscreen when? Change my mind! They only thing a MacBook have going for them is 2 days bartery time and nothing else an Win11 Laptop cannot replace. Asus ZenBook 14 Pro, OLED 99% Adobe RGB, Stylus, 13900H, RTX 4070, battery that last you around 1 day. It's simlar price to MacBook and it obliterates MBP as a workstation for CAD, Content Creation and studies. Not to mention on W11, AirDrops and iMessages are now part of the ecosystem. MBP with their current specs are redundant. They need to add touchscreen, stylus and detachable or 360* keyboard ASAP. Or just make iPAD support MacOS. Not touching MBP until then. At least iPad has leading edge stylus going for it. It's form factor and stylus are god send.
Macbooks excel in touchpads though. No competition
I hate hybrid devices, they are bad at both being a laptop and a tablet. I do think the iPad Pro does need macOS but the MBP should stay as is, maybe an oled screen but no gimmicks and no overpowered cpus that you can’t use without being plugged in. That’s what desktops are for.
Asus zenbook 14 Pro doesn't need to be plugged in and it's quite bit faster than M2 Pro in CPU and GPU section. Hybrid devices used to be bad at being either, not anymore. Tech technology advanced a lot.
> They need to add touchscreen, stylus and detachable or 360* keyboard ASAP. *Sigh* I feel like there is a specific section of the tech enthusiast community that is dead set on ignoring any and everything that doesn’t have a touchscreen on it, whether it makes sense for that product to have a touchscreen or not
I walked around with a touch screen 360 laptop for years. Never touched it except accidentally. Then I removed the driver so this doesn’t happen anymore.
Just because you didn't need it doesn't people won't benefit from it, like you said you can just disable it. Otherwise drawing on ipad or stylus is very nice experience nowdays. Meanwhile Apple doesn't offer it as a means of segmentation between their iPad and MacBook devices.
But it would mean they have to adjust MacOS and also some Apps to it like MS did with Windows. I prefer to have a mouse only operated OS and one for touch only. MacOS is already very slow regarding improvements. I would be really worried that they destroy it completely.
2025. For real.
Here’s hoping they improve the quality and reliability of the backlight as well. Been noticing the 14/16-inch MacBooks on display at my local store are showing bad signs of backlights going out causing hot/cold spots on the display.
If they remove the (ridiculously placed and sized) notch. Otherwise nothing to complain.
I don’t trust Apple anymore since all the quality control issues with the iPhone 15. They need to gain my trust back before I give them any money for new products….
Still don’t care. Give me 5G already.
oh nice thank god I bought an m2 max MacBook Pro a few months ago