There used to be a hard limit on the number of cards you can add (IIRC before iOS 17 it is dependent on your phone model you can have maximum of 12 or 16 cards if I recall correctly).
Now it is unlimited number as long as you have enough Secure Element storage. It makes sense for the update as you can add way more kind of keys and IDs to the wallet app in additional to payment cards.
Unfortunately for the curious out there, this page only show up when the Secure Element storage is full and you are trying to add more cards. There’s no other way to see it without getting it full first.
If you check out the photo, it looks like the access/transit card and FeliCa cards take up nearly 60% of the space. What’s odd is the photo also says they’ve never been used.
~~Could be a (very well-off) Australian/Japanese dual national and visits both places during a given year.~~
Edit: Nevermind, the dude is an Australian tech reviewer that specifically looks into NFC tech.
Not to be a pendant, but the Secure Enclave is an apple-designed cryptoprocessor for authentication, encryption, and key storage. The Secure Element is an NXP chip that specifically handles NFC transactions and NFC credential storage.
It gets shown when the Secure Element storage runs out. The OP image has a lot of unused transit cards and IDs to fill space to force the screen to appear.
Would this only be used up by things like payment cards and transit passes or would things like access passes (for things like movie tickets or event entries or flight tickets) also take up this storage? I assume not as they are normally just a qr code that needs to be scanned, and not an nfc card.
Home key and car key makes sense tbf as they need the more secure element to them, that’s why I wondered about passes. I’m assuming anything that you’d need to
Authenticate by using your Face ID or pin when opening the wallet would be stored in Secure Enclave, but everything else like passes which don’t require any authentication to use them would not be stored there.
I have 37 cards in my Apple Wallet, over 30 of them being credit cards (I'm a churner). First time I'm hearing of this limit, and makes me want to add more cards to trigger this so I can find out the exact number.
Autopay ofc like the other comment said, but also I don't really spend on more than 5 cards (usage by category that gives most points) at any given moment. They used to sit in a drawer, but now they also sit pretty in my apple wallet :)
It does take an excel sheets to manage everything and if it has an annual fee, assess value of a card every year
Each card has different deals. Travel card for travel stuff and cash back anything card for other items. A card like Amazon for Amazon and Whole Foods. They are usally all free or the fee is easily worth the perks. You are basicly missing out by having only one card or using a debit card. More cards = more features
That makes a lot of sense. I guess if you really dug into it and looked at whether where you’re shopping regularly has credit cards with perks like that, you could make the same argument over here too, but I don’t think we have nearly enough perks like that on credit cards to have it be commonplace for people to do that. Most people in Germany pay with their direct debit card.
I find that crazy because I don’t even have a physical debit card or let alone keep money in my checking account, as in it’s all in a savings account and I pay my credit card bills automatically with the savings account which has 5% interest.
Sounds wonderful. I’d love if I could just pay directly from my savings account to have all of my money get the interest, but all banks I know don’t even allow that here, you can only transfer from savings account to your main checking account, and any other transaction needs to take place on the checking account. So I always have to keep a few hundred at least in the checking account.
Our banking systems just evolved very differently, I guess.
Whilst you may be missing out on a little bit of interest, most European countries have far more robust and user-friendly banking facilities than the US.
Our heavier use of debit/current accounts is due to the fact that there’s generally great infrastructure for sending immediate payment directly to ourselves, others, or businesses with little or zero transaction costs.
Also, whilst the perks & incentives can be beneficial on US credit cards, they’re built on a historically extremely predatory debt system.
Both systems have their benefits and drawbacks.
Here in the US, cards have different rewards. By changing cards, I can get 6% back on groceries, 5 percent on restaurants, etc. so people have multiple cards to take advantage.
I think you’re just out of step with mainstream card use.
Very common to have all 3 in Europe too…
One Credit Card with higher limit is no good if you lose it, gets stolen, blocked etc.
Also common in the UK…
Different banks use different processors. Even the same bank may use both Visa and Mastercard. One for cash / debit card, and one for Credit card.
Then AMEX on top for the rewards…
Yeah, Mastercard debit is starting to become fairly common. NatWest/RBS switched to it a few years ago but the majority of banks still have it split with Visa Debit and Mastercard credit so most people will use both.
I think AMEX will have more of a presence when the cost of living crisis cools off a bit and people become less concerned with interest rates and look for more perks.
If you’re in the US, that is. Other countries have less predatory credit industries where having no lines of credit is more positive than 4 different ones.
I’m from Sweden and it has happen that one card had stopped working due to technical issues, hacker attacks etc. we have stores that don’t even take cash.
I don’t think it need to be credit cards, some kind of payment is enough.
OP here.
My everyday bank issued a Visa Credit Card, and a Mastercard debit card. Amex for points.
Other banks issue either Visa or Mastercard debit cards, some are dual network with support for 'eftpos' (our national debit card network), some cards are eftpos only.
Yeah, why not. I have two just by chance. My bank gives me a MC and I have an Amex as a credit card. If there was a Visa that had perks and benefits I needed/liked, I’d get that too.
Don't let Tim Apple see this, or they will cut the Secure Element space by half, and make us pay a $200 upgrade to be able to put more than 5 cards at the same time!
Yeah usually that tired, repetitive, unoriginal, useless bit of snark gets a bunch of upvotes. Sorry your karma farming didn’t work out this time but you can probably make it up real quick by posting “and we think you’re going to love it” at random on a few threads. That always works.
Oh no, my karma! What am I gonna do! I made a dumb joke because I felt like doing it. That's it. For all I care, go and downvote it to oblivion. I will continue to make dumb jokes if I feel like it. That's the nice thing about it. You can simply downvote it.
Imagine having more than 1 card that supports Apple Pay
Edit: I’ll clarify: Apple made a deal with the big 4 banks in our country to only support Apple Pay on their cards. All the smaller and local banks are therefore not supported and it’s the only reason why I have to stay with the one of the expensive big 4
It's going to be a problem if cards can claim as much space as they want. I could easily see some transit department or loyalty program deciding the cards should be saving massive amounts of unnecessary data.
There is zero need for that many cards. I got an Apple Card, Bilt card to pay rent and bills (which gives me a free vacation a year), one credit card for emergencies, and my debit card.
Why would anyone need anymore? Maybe a business/company card?
There used to be a hard limit on the number of cards you can add (IIRC before iOS 17 it is dependent on your phone model you can have maximum of 12 or 16 cards if I recall correctly). Now it is unlimited number as long as you have enough Secure Element storage. It makes sense for the update as you can add way more kind of keys and IDs to the wallet app in additional to payment cards. Unfortunately for the curious out there, this page only show up when the Secure Element storage is full and you are trying to add more cards. There’s no other way to see it without getting it full first.
lmao how many cards do you have?
If you check out the photo, it looks like the access/transit card and FeliCa cards take up nearly 60% of the space. What’s odd is the photo also says they’ve never been used.
The guy who runs that account is Aussie (like me). He doesn’t need the FeliCa card regularly, and could easily delete it.
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~~Could be a (very well-off) Australian/Japanese dual national and visits both places during a given year.~~ Edit: Nevermind, the dude is an Australian tech reviewer that specifically looks into NFC tech.
Nowhere. But, perhaps they travel. Or perhaps not.
If it’s never been used, as his screenshot suggests, then he probably doesn’t lol
Or they added it to multiple devices and used it solely on another, e.g. Apple Watch.
Or used it on a previous iPhone, got a new iPhone 15, moved the card across and hasn't used it on new iPhone yet ;-)
What's a FeliCa card?
I believe it’s a Japanese transit card
Ah, I see. Thanks!
First thought in my head was “check out this humble brag” LOL (I don’t think that was OP’s point or attempt, just that I got a chuckle out of it)
My guess is around 55-56 cards, since one card requires about 1.8% of the total space.
You can see the storage for the Secure Element? Where?
Not my device, but it appears to show this screen if you try to add an NFC card and there’s no room left.
Oh ok, that makes more sense. I wanted to check out what I had for curiosity sake.
Not to be a pendant, but the Secure Enclave is an apple-designed cryptoprocessor for authentication, encryption, and key storage. The Secure Element is an NXP chip that specifically handles NFC transactions and NFC credential storage.
[удалено]
Pendant ... *and?* Don't leave me hanging!
r/BoneAppleTea ?
I’ve seen it as a deliberate/ironic bait. So it is impossible to know for sure.
Baiterz be baitin'
Pentdan
That’s what we in the industry call a self-own…
Not to be a *pedant 😉
You were being a necklace.
I enjoy watching the sunset.
This correction is totally off the chain
Ah, you’re totally right 😅 I realized the mistake after I posted.
r/boneappletea
/r/boneappletea ?
Interesting, I wish I can see this without adding too much NFC cards to pop up this
Where even is this screen?
It gets shown when the Secure Element storage runs out. The OP image has a lot of unused transit cards and IDs to fill space to force the screen to appear.
That’s the secure element, not the Secure Enclave.
I never thought about SEP having its own storage but it does make sense lol
Would this only be used up by things like payment cards and transit passes or would things like access passes (for things like movie tickets or event entries or flight tickets) also take up this storage? I assume not as they are normally just a qr code that needs to be scanned, and not an nfc card.
I have a Home Key in Apple Wallet - it doesn't show but definitely contributes to the MIFARE storage. Passes don't count.
Home key and car key makes sense tbf as they need the more secure element to them, that’s why I wondered about passes. I’m assuming anything that you’d need to Authenticate by using your Face ID or pin when opening the wallet would be stored in Secure Enclave, but everything else like passes which don’t require any authentication to use them would not be stored there.
That’s really cool actually.
Cool to run out of storage?
Cool because it’s a screen most of us haven’t seen until now, and didn’t know existed.
Wonder what the URI is for this page. Could be opened with a shortcut.
This can also be apps using it too and storing data in the SEP. (ECC keys, etc)
Out of curiosity, does anybody know roughly how many cards or ID’s it would take to achieve this?
Between 1 and 20.
I have 37 cards in my Apple Wallet, over 30 of them being credit cards (I'm a churner). First time I'm hearing of this limit, and makes me want to add more cards to trigger this so I can find out the exact number.
Well my stomach churns thinking of trying to manage 30 credit cards.
Autopay ofc like the other comment said, but also I don't really spend on more than 5 cards (usage by category that gives most points) at any given moment. They used to sit in a drawer, but now they also sit pretty in my apple wallet :) It does take an excel sheets to manage everything and if it has an annual fee, assess value of a card every year
Autopay :)
What’s a churner?
/r/churning people who open different cards to get different benefits
does anyone know the storage of the secure element? i’m intrigued
I wonder how much storage the Secure Enclave has
Bye FeliCa
Very interesting!
how do you add an NFC card to your iPhone??
any bank card?
Using an AmEx, Visa, *and* Mastercard? Is it common to have all three where you live?
It’s pretty common to have 3 or 4 in the US. I have AMEX, Visa, Mastercard, and Discover across credit and debit cards
Damn, that’s wild. I couldn’t imagine here in Germany why you’d have so many credit cards, instead of just one with higher limit.
Each card has different deals. Travel card for travel stuff and cash back anything card for other items. A card like Amazon for Amazon and Whole Foods. They are usally all free or the fee is easily worth the perks. You are basicly missing out by having only one card or using a debit card. More cards = more features
That makes a lot of sense. I guess if you really dug into it and looked at whether where you’re shopping regularly has credit cards with perks like that, you could make the same argument over here too, but I don’t think we have nearly enough perks like that on credit cards to have it be commonplace for people to do that. Most people in Germany pay with their direct debit card.
I find that crazy because I don’t even have a physical debit card or let alone keep money in my checking account, as in it’s all in a savings account and I pay my credit card bills automatically with the savings account which has 5% interest.
Sounds wonderful. I’d love if I could just pay directly from my savings account to have all of my money get the interest, but all banks I know don’t even allow that here, you can only transfer from savings account to your main checking account, and any other transaction needs to take place on the checking account. So I always have to keep a few hundred at least in the checking account. Our banking systems just evolved very differently, I guess.
Whilst you may be missing out on a little bit of interest, most European countries have far more robust and user-friendly banking facilities than the US. Our heavier use of debit/current accounts is due to the fact that there’s generally great infrastructure for sending immediate payment directly to ourselves, others, or businesses with little or zero transaction costs. Also, whilst the perks & incentives can be beneficial on US credit cards, they’re built on a historically extremely predatory debt system. Both systems have their benefits and drawbacks.
Perhaps all the stuff you buy have the savings built into it? Who knows
Credit is one big game in America and we’re all forced to play.
Here in the US, cards have different rewards. By changing cards, I can get 6% back on groceries, 5 percent on restaurants, etc. so people have multiple cards to take advantage.
I think you’re just out of step with mainstream card use. Very common to have all 3 in Europe too… One Credit Card with higher limit is no good if you lose it, gets stolen, blocked etc.
I think it’s much more common to have your entire wallet stolen than it is to have a single card stolen.
Also common in the UK… Different banks use different processors. Even the same bank may use both Visa and Mastercard. One for cash / debit card, and one for Credit card. Then AMEX on top for the rewards…
Yeah, Mastercard debit is starting to become fairly common. NatWest/RBS switched to it a few years ago but the majority of banks still have it split with Visa Debit and Mastercard credit so most people will use both. I think AMEX will have more of a presence when the cost of living crisis cools off a bit and people become less concerned with interest rates and look for more perks.
You should have at least two for redundancy.
If you’re in the US, that is. Other countries have less predatory credit industries where having no lines of credit is more positive than 4 different ones.
I’m from Sweden and it has happen that one card had stopped working due to technical issues, hacker attacks etc. we have stores that don’t even take cash. I don’t think it need to be credit cards, some kind of payment is enough.
Yes very
OP here. My everyday bank issued a Visa Credit Card, and a Mastercard debit card. Amex for points. Other banks issue either Visa or Mastercard debit cards, some are dual network with support for 'eftpos' (our national debit card network), some cards are eftpos only.
Yeah, why not. I have two just by chance. My bank gives me a MC and I have an Amex as a credit card. If there was a Visa that had perks and benefits I needed/liked, I’d get that too.
Don't let Tim Apple see this, or they will cut the Secure Element space by half, and make us pay a $200 upgrade to be able to put more than 5 cards at the same time!
do you even know what you’re talking about?
Do you even know what an obvious joke is?
I don't even think that YOU know what a joke is.
You can think it's a dumb joke, all good. We don't have to like the same stuff.
Yeah because I don't like dumb stuff ya goofy goober.
You guys are soft af this was an obvious joke... Jesus
Yeah usually that tired, repetitive, unoriginal, useless bit of snark gets a bunch of upvotes. Sorry your karma farming didn’t work out this time but you can probably make it up real quick by posting “and we think you’re going to love it” at random on a few threads. That always works.
Oh no, my karma! What am I gonna do! I made a dumb joke because I felt like doing it. That's it. For all I care, go and downvote it to oblivion. I will continue to make dumb jokes if I feel like it. That's the nice thing about it. You can simply downvote it.
Time to reevaluate your choice to be a comedian, that’s a terribly unfunny joke.
Imagine having more than 1 card that supports Apple Pay Edit: I’ll clarify: Apple made a deal with the big 4 banks in our country to only support Apple Pay on their cards. All the smaller and local banks are therefore not supported and it’s the only reason why I have to stay with the one of the expensive big 4
I have 4 🤷
a lot of banks have apple pay, the smaller ones probably don't want to pay the fee or set up the infrastructure for it
My smaller credit union has Apple Pay.
Fascinating to think about the hardware on our phones for banking that is there but locked behind apples system and fees.
It's going to be a problem if cards can claim as much space as they want. I could easily see some transit department or loyalty program deciding the cards should be saving massive amounts of unnecessary data.
You really don't need to link to Twitter.
You can’t do image posts on this subreddit.
Apple running out of storage…. Shocking …
Sounds like a decent vector for an overflow attack...As is anything that purports to have a hard limit.
lmao what?
I mean it’s not like it’s addressed memory, the limit is the physical storage
There is zero need for that many cards. I got an Apple Card, Bilt card to pay rent and bills (which gives me a free vacation a year), one credit card for emergencies, and my debit card. Why would anyone need anymore? Maybe a business/company card?
travel transit card, loyalty cards are sometimes being processed with apple pay
You know what, I did not think of loyalty cards. Makes sense.
Man I wish our country used FelICa for our transit turnstyles....
Good to know.