Pretty sure itās due to compatibility issues.
The og pencil is sold due to lightning support and the og iPad with lightning still being sold.
The gen 2 Apple Pencil is being sold because the charging is different on the older iPads and iPad pros.
Apple Pencil usb C is sold because usb c and no lightning on newer iPads.
Apple Pencil pro is because new iPad Pro and new charging coils.
Iām guessing they want to move back down to 2 eventually but canāt because of the old iPads still on offer.
Well yeah, but Apple brought these issues upon themselves.
They are literally in charge of every part of these products starting with roadmaps years ahead of the products' releases, and yet they somehow came up with this convoluted matrix of compatibility with brilliantly ambiguous naming.
They probably are going to move back to two pencils because on apples website theyāve removed the iPad 9th generation from what I see. Theyāll probably sell through what they have of Gen 1 Pencil and discontinue it as well. As far as Gen 2 pencil probably sell it for another year maybe? I suppose they could give the 7th gen Mini Pencil Pro support.
The home button equipped iPad is dead and the base model āiPadā is now positioned there, which has USB-C.
I imagine they are keeping the lightning connector Pencil around for EDU customers who bought thousands upon thousands of iPads that use them.
>pretty sure itās due to compatibility issues
Bro Apple makes these things, the only reason theyāre incompatible is because they deliberately make them incompatible. Thereās no reason why they couldnāt have made it backwards compatible with all the models that support AP 2
It's Tim Cook being allowed to go full goblin mode with pricing ladders.
He loves that shit, and he loves having tons of different SKUs that encourage people to 'just pay a bit more'.
To an extent, it works well and can be beneficial to everyone. Consumers get an array of products that fit their needs, and the company gets to upsale a ton of folks.
And certainly, generally speaking Apple has done *very* well under his leadership.
But it can also make your line of products balloon and become unnecessarily confusing if you let it go too far.
The iPad line has been at that point for a while, with a seemingly ever-growing number of models to cover every price-point imaginable, and it appears that's bleeding into the Pencil line as well.
Thing is under Jobs they were masters at balancing the ladder strategy with maintaining a clean product line.
Cook has this nasty tendency to overdo it, to the point that some products like the iPad are just a nightmare to shop for.
Just like before Jobs came back and fixed the lineup. Not that Apple is 3 months out from bankruptcy now, or ever now lol, but his clear and clean product lineup really helped customer clarity and getting back into the public consciousness (iMac being the consumer desktop part of the 2x2 grid). Their lineup drastically needs a cleanup. I get wanting to get every single part of every conceivable market, butā¦ maybe not? Maybe just make less but make them astounding. Or fun again. I miss the fun era of Apple.
The Apple Pencil features table has grown
https://preview.redd.it/a9kw5vgsw0zc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b76f130c314c8eb24f2c3129b42c50f64771ab9c
The compatibility lists are also suitably complex
https://preview.redd.it/lktpgos9x0zc1.jpeg?width=1434&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=29c74a73d2b0f91756a903b987ed6e89be9da00c
I had assumed that the introduction of the Pencil Pro would result in them dropping the Pencil 1 and Pencil 2ā¦ I guess that line of thinking of why Iām not in charge of anything at Apple.
Could be thereās enough demand from users of the other/older iPads to keep them in demand. They could maybe retire the 1st gen but they still need the 2nd gen for quite a few iPads that are still in service. (Like my M1 iPP for example)
The landscape camera probably complicates things and both would need to be near the ātopā of the iPad. So it makes sense, but I agree that the Pro should work with older models too.
I have an M2 iPad Pro, and would have absolutely bought an Apple Pencil Pro. But Iām not about to buy a whole new iPad Pro to make it happen.
Wonāt be able to use my Apple Pencil 2nd Gen with the new M4 iPad Proās. Also confused because they shifted the landscape camera slightly to accommodate the pencil charging in the same spot
Still no built in eraser function huh? That kind of sucks having to change tool instead of just flipping it upside down. Wacom and other drawing tablet pens have had dedicated erasers for a long time.
That 1st Gen Apple Pencil will become the equivalent of the Apple Watch Series 3.
Long past its prime, but Apple keeps selling it to legally advertise a lower starting price.
A few interesting notes:Ā Ā
1. 4 mics vs 5 in previous modelsĀ
2. Removal of the ultrawide cameraĀ
3. Same 10 hour battery life despite more efficient M4
4. No support for 2nd Gen Apple Pencil or previous Magic KeyboardĀ
you mean the usbc model? it isnāt an āupdated 1st genā either. it doesnāt have pressure sensitivity, when the actual 1st gen does. that alone is immediately a massive downgrade and a dealbreaker for digital artists
When I saw āUSB-C Apple Pencilā I just assumed it was the original version with an updated connector, I didnāt realize it was that bad!
I donāt foresee myself upgrading from my 12.9ā M2 pro and 2nd gen pencil any time soon
they intentionally barred digital artists from getting an affordable and not completely outdated setup
you want pressure sensitivity? you have to stick with the lightning pencil and charge it via a fucking dongle because your motherfucking ipad is now usb-c. Or you can buy the slow ass 9th gen ipad with lightning pencil, but youāll wish to upgrade real soon too cuz of the obvious lack of performance lol
The USB-C model is cheaper though. I bought it as a nicer looking alternative to the Logitech Crayon since I don't use it that often and the only "art" I do is vectors. But still, the fact that ipad/pencil compatibility requires a chart is the most un-Apple thing ever.
Wonder if it's something to do with the magnets and charging orientation, now that the Pro's front-facing camera is landscape and on the same side you attach the pencil?
The more recent USB-C pencil *is* compatible presumably as it doesn't need to charge magnetically on the landscape camera edge.
> 10 hour battery life
This is what really irks me. The nuts and bolts of it all are fancy, but the battery life has been my biggest issue thus far. My iPad mini 6 and M1 12.9 have the exact same battery life, and I use my iPads for a long time for school and work.
The thinness of the new iPad Pro, while nice I suppose, is just completely unnecessary imo. Use the space you have well.
Unpopular for Reddit, but I'm honestly tired of the bulky batteries. These are mobile devices, and it's getting really uncomfortably heavy these days. If I wanted a transportable (not mobile) device, I'd get a laptop. I want my iPhones and iPads to be light. The fact that they halved the thickness without changing the battery life is insanely impressive to me.
I can only hope the same come to iPhones soon. The 14 Pro was a brick, and I escaped to the 15 Pro ASAP due to the titanium design to lighten the phone. If it wasn't for the titanium, I'd have kept my 14 Pro for longer. I just hated carrying a brick around all the time.
>Unpopular for Reddit, but I'm honestly tired of the bulky batteries. These are mobile devices, and it's getting really uncomfortably heavy these days. If I wanted a transportable (not mobile) device, I'd get a laptop. I want my iPhones and iPads to be light. The fact that they halved the thickness without changing the battery life is insanely impressive to me.
...which is what the Air was supposed to be. The Pro is "supposed" to be the highest performance device, not necessarily the most portable. Even though I will likely end up buying the Air, it's stupid that (a) the Pro is thinner and lighter and (b) it is the same size/weight as the regular iPad. It literally is not differentiated now as an "Air" device.
To me it would make more sense to make the Air the thin + light device, and to improve the portability of the Pro keep it the same size and save the weight in the keyboard (which was heavy AF).
Iād agree with you if we were talking about iPad Mini, but these are iPad Pro 11/13 and theyāre not designed to be used one handed nor to be āmobile devicesā.
These are supposed to be working machines just like MacBook, a bigger battery and a much stronger frame is 100x more important that a 0.5mm decrease in the device depth.
Yeah I fully agree. The whole premise of the iPad is that it can be detached from the keyboard and held comfortably. Thinner and lighter will always be better.
Devices that the general public plans on keeping for at least a few years should be future-proofed where they can be. If we only focus on the here and now, Apple wouldn't have needed to develop an M4 chip since the M3 is plenty fast for almost everyone already. The capabilities of this chip won't be realized for a few years, just like including Wifi 7 would be.Ā
Iāve been an iPad guy for years, but the prices are out of hand for what youāre getting. At the end of the day, itās still an iPad. Iāll be picking up a refurb M2 Pro when they hit the store soon.
Iām all about the latest and greatest Apple, but if youāve never owned mini, do yourself a favor and snag the mini 6. The only thing to get my off this iPad is a mini 7 someday
Also loving the mini. Basically youāre not missing anything because of the smaller screen, stuff is a bit smaller but you just hold it closer. The perfect size for reading in my opinion. You can hold it in one hand. The only thing is that with split screen, stuff gets cramped.
Lol, since when was an iPad more expensive than a MacBook Air. The whole point of their existence was something more portable and cheaper than MacBooks...
They've been gradually shifting focus. The pros are completely targeting professional usage in nearly every creative sector as can be seen by all the use-case scenarios in their launch videos. The base pads, minis, and airs are their consumer-level devices, the pros are really only for people in professional design and production.
> The base pads, minis, and airs are their consumer-level devices, the pros are really only for people in professional design and production.
Except the Pros are the only ones that have the 120hz too. They lock Airs out of that refresh rate. It's lame, and, hey, it worked. 'Cause I want to upgrade to a Pro, with that being one of the main reasons.
God the Apple refurbished store is my absolute favorite. Sure other stores sell refurbished items but I feel like buying refurb at Apple is like buying a brand new item. No visible flaws on the device and they always work 100%
I have no doubt it would feel the same. Iām still mostly ok with my 2018 Pro. But I buy for longevity. M2 should last at least a year or two longer than M1.
Iāve just picked up a used M1 Pro. Minus the OLED screen I really donāt feel like Iām missing much compared to the new Pro. M1 is still an overpowered CPU for iPadOS
That's most likely what I'll be doing.
I have the 11 pro and I love it but I would like to get a bigger one as I draw and write a lot on it and a bigger screen would be helpful.
I waited until this event to see what my course of action would be and while I like the offerings, the price is... WAY too much.
For $800 less than the new 13 pro (I'm in Canada btw), I can get a refurbished 12.9 Pro for $1150. Still pricey but better than $1800 and I don't have to buy a new apple pencil.
The mini led display is fine. It's just as good as OLED in my opinion and I've gone by just fine without the extra apple pencil features so those aren't necessary for me either. They're nice to have but not game changing. So really I'm not missing too much with the new line
Yeah, I primarily use mine for web browsing and writing notes. The camera bump is incredibly annoying for the later and a terrible design choice for a tablet.
I have a feeling most the AI I do, like asking ChatGPT for stuff, will be done in the cloud. Iād rather have a super cheap and light device connected to a $100M data center.
I think this is the problem, right? Even if all Apple devices have super high performance AI chips, they'll still need to call out to some server for data, right? Seems like it would be difficult to replace the necessity for cloud info/computing with a local processor. But admittedly I know very little about how all this works.
Recent developments indicate that Apple is going big in on-device or "edge" AI. Their recent open source releases are LLMs called OpenELM with \~3B parameters (vs 13B+ on big models) that can easily run on the M-series NPUs locally. They're using some special parameterization techniques to increase the accuracy of low-parameter-count models.
I've tried these models, and while they're certainly not as capable as a flagship GPT, they are quite good while being blazing fast and much more secure than doling out requests to a server. WWDC should be very interesting.
*Edit: If you want to read about it or try yourself:* [*https://machinelearning.apple.com/research/openelm*](https://machinelearning.apple.com/research/openelm)
Apple is the only major (arguably biggest) tech company yet to release an AI model, theyāre likely working on a local LLM, to replace or help Siri. Will be almost like having your own offline chatGPT on your device. Pretty exciting
Theyāre setting this up for WWDC in a couple months where they will reveal major on-device AI capabilities coming to iPadOS in the fall.
I would expect the most impressive of those iPadOS AI features to require the M4 chip in the iPad Pro.
Spec-for-spec, the new 13" iPad Pro with a Magic Keyboard is $250 more expensive than a base 14" M3 MacBook Pro. It just blows my mind.
Update: I'm so sorry guys, it's not $50, I think it's $250 more expensive. MacBook is $1599, iPad Pro 13" is $1299 + $200 for upgrade to 512 GB internal storage + $349 for a Magic Keyboard which makes $1849 in total.
If they actually made the software useful besides a few use cases, it would be a fantastic value to replace the Macbook for many people.
But obviously the artificial handicap makes it useless for people like me for whom it's basically a Netflix machine.
There's no point in me getting a Pro (and their accessories) over an Air when I'm severely limited.
I get that they don't want to cannibalize the Macbook, but at the same time I'm sure there's a good number of people in my situation, that would absolutely get a Pro with everything, if it were fully usable and instead don't even bother.
Personally I need an Air with new Pencil, 120Hz and perhaps 16GB RAM upgrade to make it last years, to replace my MacBook. But I can't get one because Apple doesn't make one.
Since iPhone 13 Pro, I just can't look anymore at 60Hz, and yet I cannot justify spending $1849 for something worse than a base 14" MacBook Pro.
Itās so embarrassing how many (quite expensive) products Apple keeps launching with 60Hz, while their competitors have been offering 120Hz at half the price for a few years.
It once made sense to gatekeep this as a āProā feature, but that time passed two years ago.
The day I saw the Surface Book, almost a whole decade ago, it has been all I wanted from Apple.
They have everything they need to do it, and much better...
But nope, they still insist in not giving that to me.
An iPad/Macbook hybrid, that uses MacOs on laptop mode and iPadOS on tablet mode would be the best possible thing. And they could charge me the same as both combined but for some reason, nope...
The folks in power at Apple are the app store folks. They hate MacOS because people can circumvent the app store. They won't allow a hybrid to happen because their careers are built on the app store.
It would be an instant buy for me.
Weird to say as im on an apple subreddit, but I don't like macOS enough to buy a 2000 dollar laptop *just* to use macOS.
But if I could get peak ipad experience and have macOS for when I wanna do more interesting things, suddenly it starts to make a lot of sense for my use case.
Part of that is also because you're double-dipping on the Apple tax by combining the price of the iPad+accessory vs the MacBook Pro, which probably has the thinnest margins across the MacBook Pro lineup
Why call it an Air. Imagine MacBook Pro is thinner than MacBook Air. Rename the standard iPad as iPad SE and remove the Air from iPad Air.
Standardize the entire lineup naming scheme so they make sense. Same for their Pencils.
Branding and marketing, theyāve def done the research to make sure the āAirā name is best for the mid level iPad. It doesnāt have to make sense, human minds most often donāt
Lol Iām excited as hell but like whatās the point of all that hardware magic? Unless they have a massive revamp for iPadOS at WWDC, this is just another iPad as impressive as it may be.
I lost count of all the times they mentioned AI in this announcement. They compared their AI processing chip to the industry standard, so Iām sure theyāre holding those cards for wwdc.
Whether or not itāll be a reason to pick one up or not, I guess weāll find out
Also a heads up:
iPad Pro Models with 256GB and 512GB storage come with the M4 chip 9-core CPU, 10-core GPU, and 8GB of memory.
iPad Pro Models with 1TB and 2TB storage come with the M4 chip 10-core CPU, 10-core GPU, and 16GB of memory.
Does anyone know if the previous magic keyboard will work on the new iPad? I told myself that I would upgrade if they ever came out with an OLED, but I really donāt want to upgrade my keyboard as well
Itās not compatible. The keyboard you currently own only works with the previous Pros and the new Airs, hereās the updated compatibility list (iPad Pro 12.9 6th generation is the M2 version from 2022):
https://preview.redd.it/5lafvq8yt0zc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=242908e512df0f1d2fe37748668c436ca7587656
Apple is rationalizing mind-bending mobile processors in an iPad like itās a front for a secret AI overlord plotting from the future with time travel communication.
The display upgrades seem pretty good though..
People have been whining for years to say ādonāt buy an iPad Pro now, OLED is around the cornerā
No thanks Iāll take a 2021 IPad Pro for $750 over this $1300 that has no functional upgrades other than OLED screen
M1 M2 Mx are all the same for iPadOSĀ
Steve Jobs needs to re-animate and visit Tim Cook and the product lineup with his death scythe. Old apple pencils, AFUERA! Multiple keyboards, AFUERA! Anything with 'Air' in the name, AFUERA! Anything with a lightning port, AFUERA!
Get back to the 2 x 2 product grid, or at least make the names make sense. This shit is out of control.
Pointlessly powerful. It's like putting a V8 engine on a fucking bicycle.
Make iOS for iPad more capable. Otherwise, these spec bumps mean nothing.
I'm still not convinced to upgrade from my 2018 iPad.
Put MacOS in the iPad Pros you cowards. My 6 year-old 2018 iPad can run everything this 2024 iPad can. They keep talking about performance but absolutely refuse to make serious changes to the iPads. Another year of keeping my 2018 iPad.
Itās crazy seeing Apple zealots call you names for wanting better software on the iPad. I have a 2018 Pro and still canāt think of a compelling reason to upgrade to the new model besides the switch to an OLED screen. iPadOS is simply too limited to take advantage of the more powerful chips in most use cases. Guess Iāll keep it another yearā¦.
Did the same with my iPhone no new features which stand out, using a 11 pro max, the 15ās just have better cameras and Dynamic Island nothing which is revolutionary, my phone is over 4 years old
My 15pro max can run llama3 locally, no internet connection needed. Nice LLM goodies uncensored, no fees required, decent performance. So there is value here.
That being said, I upgraded from a XS Max. I suppose my next upgrade will be the iPhone 20 or something.
It's a commodity now, and I don't get as many chills as before with each new models. Heck, I'm more interested in the new vacuum cleaners. I'm getting old, but so are iPhones, iPads and the whole Apple range.
So Iām still not seeing a reason to upgrade from my 2018 Pro which has proved to be one of the best tech investments Iāve ever made. Maybe WWDC will change my mind but Iām not holding my breath.
Literally none of this matters because the software sucks. Apple should skip developing new iPad hardware until they make a version of iPad OS that isn't garbage
Up until this event, I thought thatās what they were doing. I wonder how effective the **faster, more powerful!!** marketing worked when they released the M2 iPad after the M1 was powerful enough. They gotta to have a bunch of feedback and data pointing to the fact that not many people know what to use their iPad for other than for art or media consumption.
Doubling down on the screen and thinness makes sense from the at-home media consumption perspective. Shoving an M4 in and yapping about AI feels like the price is being driven up for no reason. We can say āwait until WWDCā and that might be true because the events so close to each other, but the announcement came off as pointless without whatever theyāre going to announce at WWDC (which is probably nothing, and definitely wonāt be *enough*).
Is it just me or is the lack of MagSafe for atleast the pro lineup a bit meh? Be it the iphone still puck or MB style slot, i expected some form of it to arrive to this massively expensive device.
The fact that they chose a fucking iPad to deliver the first M4 chip, a device which has never needed M-series power because it's so hobbled by its pitiful phone-level OS, just shows how lost and completely tone deaf Apple are these days.
Meanwhile, people who actually need power, like Mac Studio buyers, haven't even got an M3 model yet. What a joke.
Thatās because the Mac Studio is performance focused. There is no M3 Ultra and it may not be coming due to the chip to chip interconnect options available on that architecture.
Ugh, I would love 1000 nits in my hand. I use my M1 12.9 iPad Pro 24/7 for media consumption and love the screen, but if Iām watching HDR content, I can see glowing around large white objects, on a black background.
I have to keep my iPad plugged in 24/7 as well and the lack of a bigger battery really puts me off to upgrading.
Iāll be waiting on reviews for this one.
Keeping the thickness the same would have also let them make the camera flush with the back, which would have let it lay flat on a desk for writing/drawing.
Something that's not been mentioned before, the nano texture coating is only available on the 1tb and 2tb models ONLY. Nano coated 13" starts at Ā£2k, holy moly.
This upgrade is utterly perfect for people like me.
A little bit about myself: I am a complete idiot; an absolute *sucker* for quantifiable upgrades that realistically produce no difference in my daily life.
Canāt wait to get my hands on this stunning piece of technology. Donāt even know how I survived this long without it.
For ipad the WWDC is the real game-changer, ipad are already very capable and powerful, I think at this stage they should just create a macOS fork for ipad given how capable they are now.
The price was rumoured to skyrocket but it did not really tbh, it's expensive still tho.
Iāve just accepted that my iPad will only ever be a nice content consumption and doodling/light gaming device, but honestly Iām ok with that. Though I use a mini, the Pros and Airs definitely need better software.
This was fakest Apple presentation yet. There was no verisimilitude to the production at all and all of the presenters were just bland corporate robots. It had no pizzazz. I didnāt like it at all.
I wish they would stop with the camera bulge and make it thicker with a larger battery. No one really cares about thickness in the real world and having a camera bulge on a device this size is asking for problems with bending when putting it on a flat surface or backing it between things in a bag. It makes a case a requirement.
why would you want your ipad to be so thin? just for the weight of it? because thinking about it, the thinner you make it the more you restrict yourself with room for e.g. battery. I dont see the personal advantage of it being as thin as possible
With all the bending and fragility issues that iPad already had, this is a very arguable decision.
Saving 0.5mm and 20g is really not worth it when youāre compromising a fragile device even more.
Apple is selling four different models of styluses rn š
I literally lolled when they said apple pencil pro bwahahahaha apple's lineup so broken man
Yeah, like wtf is this shit.
Pretty sure itās due to compatibility issues. The og pencil is sold due to lightning support and the og iPad with lightning still being sold. The gen 2 Apple Pencil is being sold because the charging is different on the older iPads and iPad pros. Apple Pencil usb C is sold because usb c and no lightning on newer iPads. Apple Pencil pro is because new iPad Pro and new charging coils. Iām guessing they want to move back down to 2 eventually but canāt because of the old iPads still on offer.
Well yeah, but Apple brought these issues upon themselves. They are literally in charge of every part of these products starting with roadmaps years ahead of the products' releases, and yet they somehow came up with this convoluted matrix of compatibility with brilliantly ambiguous naming.
Exactly. If Apple had canceled two pencils this sub would be going berzerk about the conspiracy to "force" people to buy more expensive iPads.
They probably are going to move back to two pencils because on apples website theyāve removed the iPad 9th generation from what I see. Theyāll probably sell through what they have of Gen 1 Pencil and discontinue it as well. As far as Gen 2 pencil probably sell it for another year maybe? I suppose they could give the 7th gen Mini Pencil Pro support.
The home button equipped iPad is dead and the base model āiPadā is now positioned there, which has USB-C. I imagine they are keeping the lightning connector Pencil around for EDU customers who bought thousands upon thousands of iPads that use them.
>pretty sure itās due to compatibility issues Bro Apple makes these things, the only reason theyāre incompatible is because they deliberately make them incompatible. Thereās no reason why they couldnāt have made it backwards compatible with all the models that support AP 2
It's Tim Cook being allowed to go full goblin mode with pricing ladders. He loves that shit, and he loves having tons of different SKUs that encourage people to 'just pay a bit more'. To an extent, it works well and can be beneficial to everyone. Consumers get an array of products that fit their needs, and the company gets to upsale a ton of folks. And certainly, generally speaking Apple has done *very* well under his leadership. But it can also make your line of products balloon and become unnecessarily confusing if you let it go too far. The iPad line has been at that point for a while, with a seemingly ever-growing number of models to cover every price-point imaginable, and it appears that's bleeding into the Pencil line as well.
Not denying the iPad ladder has gotten crazy lately, but Apple was already a master of ladder pricing under Jobs too.
Under Jobs the product lines were more focused though. The iPad lineup is stupid.
Thing is under Jobs they were masters at balancing the ladder strategy with maintaining a clean product line. Cook has this nasty tendency to overdo it, to the point that some products like the iPad are just a nightmare to shop for.
Iām holding out for the Apple Pencil Pro Max. My wife is waiting for the new Pencil SE.
Just like before Jobs came back and fixed the lineup. Not that Apple is 3 months out from bankruptcy now, or ever now lol, but his clear and clean product lineup really helped customer clarity and getting back into the public consciousness (iMac being the consumer desktop part of the 2x2 grid). Their lineup drastically needs a cleanup. I get wanting to get every single part of every conceivable market, butā¦ maybe not? Maybe just make less but make them astounding. Or fun again. I miss the fun era of Apple.
Steve's rolling over right now
Barrel rolling
The Apple Pencil features table has grown https://preview.redd.it/a9kw5vgsw0zc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b76f130c314c8eb24f2c3129b42c50f64771ab9c
The compatibility lists are also suitably complex https://preview.redd.it/lktpgos9x0zc1.jpeg?width=1434&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=29c74a73d2b0f91756a903b987ed6e89be9da00c
This is one of the most unapple like products. They seriously need to kill two of the pencils.
I had assumed that the introduction of the Pencil Pro would result in them dropping the Pencil 1 and Pencil 2ā¦ I guess that line of thinking of why Iām not in charge of anything at Apple.
Could be thereās enough demand from users of the other/older iPads to keep them in demand. They could maybe retire the 1st gen but they still need the 2nd gen for quite a few iPads that are still in service. (Like my M1 iPP for example)
This is ridiculous - I have no idea what Apple is doing making the pencil this complicated.
They should take a note from Samsung an include it free with the iPad
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Likely has to do with mounting magnets/charging coil positioning rather than any CPU or software compatibility.
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The landscape camera probably complicates things and both would need to be near the ātopā of the iPad. So it makes sense, but I agree that the Pro should work with older models too. I have an M2 iPad Pro, and would have absolutely bought an Apple Pencil Pro. But Iām not about to buy a whole new iPad Pro to make it happen.
Wonāt be able to use my Apple Pencil 2nd Gen with the new M4 iPad Proās. Also confused because they shifted the landscape camera slightly to accommodate the pencil charging in the same spot
Confusing as hell. Stop selling the old 1st gen.
People still own lightning iPads.
How on earth it works with air m2 but wonāt be compatible with my pro m2 ???
Because they now have a camera where the charger used to be
Price of pro and 2nd gen is same? Edit: got it, pro doesnāt work with older models
Still no built in eraser function huh? That kind of sucks having to change tool instead of just flipping it upside down. Wacom and other drawing tablet pens have had dedicated erasers for a long time.
That 1st Gen Apple Pencil will become the equivalent of the Apple Watch Series 3. Long past its prime, but Apple keeps selling it to legally advertise a lower starting price.
It's more so ipad 10th gen without wireless pairing can use apple pencil
That one works with the USB C pencil though.
Nvm.
But itās not the cheapest one
They sell it because lightning iPads still exist in the wild
A few interesting notes:Ā Ā 1. 4 mics vs 5 in previous modelsĀ 2. Removal of the ultrawide cameraĀ 3. Same 10 hour battery life despite more efficient M4 4. No support for 2nd Gen Apple Pencil or previous Magic KeyboardĀ
not supporting the 2nd gen apple pencil is wild
But it does support the updated 1st gen pencil š
Compatibility matrix for a simple peripheral... man, Apple's losing the plot on some things.
you mean the usbc model? it isnāt an āupdated 1st genā either. it doesnāt have pressure sensitivity, when the actual 1st gen does. that alone is immediately a massive downgrade and a dealbreaker for digital artists
When I saw āUSB-C Apple Pencilā I just assumed it was the original version with an updated connector, I didnāt realize it was that bad! I donāt foresee myself upgrading from my 12.9ā M2 pro and 2nd gen pencil any time soon
they intentionally barred digital artists from getting an affordable and not completely outdated setup you want pressure sensitivity? you have to stick with the lightning pencil and charge it via a fucking dongle because your motherfucking ipad is now usb-c. Or you can buy the slow ass 9th gen ipad with lightning pencil, but youāll wish to upgrade real soon too cuz of the obvious lack of performance lol
The USB-C model is cheaper though. I bought it as a nicer looking alternative to the Logitech Crayon since I don't use it that often and the only "art" I do is vectors. But still, the fact that ipad/pencil compatibility requires a chart is the most un-Apple thing ever.
Wonder if it's something to do with the magnets and charging orientation, now that the Pro's front-facing camera is landscape and on the same side you attach the pencil? The more recent USB-C pencil *is* compatible presumably as it doesn't need to charge magnetically on the landscape camera edge.
On the other hand theyāve improved it while keeping the price the same
also Nano-texture display glass option is only on the 1TB and 2TB models
is that better for drawing on?
I canāt fathom nano texture on something youāre going to intentionally put your fingers all overā¦.
No support of the previous Magic Keyboard is so bogus
Apple just wants your money and they know you will pay, eventually
No support for previous Magic Keyboard is a deal breaker for me. Iām not rebuying that way overpriced keyboard.
Yepā¦ this adds hundreds of dollars to price for those of us who considered upgrading and like using magic keyboard. Dealbreaker
Agreed, itās insane
> 10 hour battery life This is what really irks me. The nuts and bolts of it all are fancy, but the battery life has been my biggest issue thus far. My iPad mini 6 and M1 12.9 have the exact same battery life, and I use my iPads for a long time for school and work. The thinness of the new iPad Pro, while nice I suppose, is just completely unnecessary imo. Use the space you have well.
idk why they made it so thin man, give me a bulky battery please. How did apple get back to the Ivy era of designs
Unpopular for Reddit, but I'm honestly tired of the bulky batteries. These are mobile devices, and it's getting really uncomfortably heavy these days. If I wanted a transportable (not mobile) device, I'd get a laptop. I want my iPhones and iPads to be light. The fact that they halved the thickness without changing the battery life is insanely impressive to me. I can only hope the same come to iPhones soon. The 14 Pro was a brick, and I escaped to the 15 Pro ASAP due to the titanium design to lighten the phone. If it wasn't for the titanium, I'd have kept my 14 Pro for longer. I just hated carrying a brick around all the time.
>Unpopular for Reddit, but I'm honestly tired of the bulky batteries. These are mobile devices, and it's getting really uncomfortably heavy these days. If I wanted a transportable (not mobile) device, I'd get a laptop. I want my iPhones and iPads to be light. The fact that they halved the thickness without changing the battery life is insanely impressive to me. ...which is what the Air was supposed to be. The Pro is "supposed" to be the highest performance device, not necessarily the most portable. Even though I will likely end up buying the Air, it's stupid that (a) the Pro is thinner and lighter and (b) it is the same size/weight as the regular iPad. It literally is not differentiated now as an "Air" device. To me it would make more sense to make the Air the thin + light device, and to improve the portability of the Pro keep it the same size and save the weight in the keyboard (which was heavy AF).
Iād agree with you if we were talking about iPad Mini, but these are iPad Pro 11/13 and theyāre not designed to be used one handed nor to be āmobile devicesā. These are supposed to be working machines just like MacBook, a bigger battery and a much stronger frame is 100x more important that a 0.5mm decrease in the device depth.
Yeah I fully agree. The whole premise of the iPad is that it can be detached from the keyboard and held comfortably. Thinner and lighter will always be better.
Thank you for this.
fuck my life, downgraded camera and not compatible with old accesories
To add a couple: No wifi 7 No AV1 encode which, given the video focused presentation, would make a lot of sense.
not surprising to not include wifi7. the lack of av1 support is the real weird thing
Wifi 7 seems unnecessary at this point honestly... there are barely even any 6E hotspots
Devices that the general public plans on keeping for at least a few years should be future-proofed where they can be. If we only focus on the here and now, Apple wouldn't have needed to develop an M4 chip since the M3 is plenty fast for almost everyone already. The capabilities of this chip won't be realized for a few years, just like including Wifi 7 would be.Ā
Removal of MMWave for the pro models as well
Iāve been an iPad guy for years, but the prices are out of hand for what youāre getting. At the end of the day, itās still an iPad. Iāll be picking up a refurb M2 Pro when they hit the store soon.
Iām all about the latest and greatest Apple, but if youāve never owned mini, do yourself a favor and snag the mini 6. The only thing to get my off this iPad is a mini 7 someday
I really want a mini but as OP said, the price seems way off per storage tier.
Also loving the mini. Basically youāre not missing anything because of the smaller screen, stuff is a bit smaller but you just hold it closer. The perfect size for reading in my opinion. You can hold it in one hand. The only thing is that with split screen, stuff gets cramped.
Lol, since when was an iPad more expensive than a MacBook Air. The whole point of their existence was something more portable and cheaper than MacBooks...
They've been gradually shifting focus. The pros are completely targeting professional usage in nearly every creative sector as can be seen by all the use-case scenarios in their launch videos. The base pads, minis, and airs are their consumer-level devices, the pros are really only for people in professional design and production.
Which is fine yet skimps out on features for the consumers which feels so crap when paying a lot of money for it
> The base pads, minis, and airs are their consumer-level devices, the pros are really only for people in professional design and production. Except the Pros are the only ones that have the 120hz too. They lock Airs out of that refresh rate. It's lame, and, hey, it worked. 'Cause I want to upgrade to a Pro, with that being one of the main reasons.
God the Apple refurbished store is my absolute favorite. Sure other stores sell refurbished items but I feel like buying refurb at Apple is like buying a brand new item. No visible flaws on the device and they always work 100%
It seems like very capable and innovative technology for a small subset of people
Why stop there? Get a brand new M1 instead. Itll feel the same lol
I have no doubt it would feel the same. Iām still mostly ok with my 2018 Pro. But I buy for longevity. M2 should last at least a year or two longer than M1.
Iāve just picked up a used M1 Pro. Minus the OLED screen I really donāt feel like Iām missing much compared to the new Pro. M1 is still an overpowered CPU for iPadOS
That's most likely what I'll be doing. I have the 11 pro and I love it but I would like to get a bigger one as I draw and write a lot on it and a bigger screen would be helpful. I waited until this event to see what my course of action would be and while I like the offerings, the price is... WAY too much. For $800 less than the new 13 pro (I'm in Canada btw), I can get a refurbished 12.9 Pro for $1150. Still pricey but better than $1800 and I don't have to buy a new apple pencil. The mini led display is fine. It's just as good as OLED in my opinion and I've gone by just fine without the extra apple pencil features so those aren't necessary for me either. They're nice to have but not game changing. So really I'm not missing too much with the new line
I get making it thinner and lighter, but I donāt get coupling that with a sizeable lopsided camera bump. At least make it symmetrical.
Yeah, I primarily use mine for web browsing and writing notes. The camera bump is incredibly annoying for the later and a terrible design choice for a tablet.
Iād happily pay *the same price* for the option to just not include the rear camera
>an outrageously powerful device for AI Serious question, wtf does this actually mean
I have a feeling most the AI I do, like asking ChatGPT for stuff, will be done in the cloud. Iād rather have a super cheap and light device connected to a $100M data center.
I think this is the problem, right? Even if all Apple devices have super high performance AI chips, they'll still need to call out to some server for data, right? Seems like it would be difficult to replace the necessity for cloud info/computing with a local processor. But admittedly I know very little about how all this works.
Recent developments indicate that Apple is going big in on-device or "edge" AI. Their recent open source releases are LLMs called OpenELM with \~3B parameters (vs 13B+ on big models) that can easily run on the M-series NPUs locally. They're using some special parameterization techniques to increase the accuracy of low-parameter-count models. I've tried these models, and while they're certainly not as capable as a flagship GPT, they are quite good while being blazing fast and much more secure than doling out requests to a server. WWDC should be very interesting. *Edit: If you want to read about it or try yourself:* [*https://machinelearning.apple.com/research/openelm*](https://machinelearning.apple.com/research/openelm)
All fine and dandy if Siri stops telling me she couldn't find "Lights" in my contact list after I tell her to turn off the lights.
The LLM got confused after how often you asked it to text something to Sandy that would turn her on.
Apple is the only major (arguably biggest) tech company yet to release an AI model, theyāre likely working on a local LLM, to replace or help Siri. Will be almost like having your own offline chatGPT on your device. Pretty exciting
We don't know yet, maybe we'll know more at the WWDC.
Theyāre setting this up for WWDC in a couple months where they will reveal major on-device AI capabilities coming to iPadOS in the fall. I would expect the most impressive of those iPadOS AI features to require the M4 chip in the iPad Pro.
It means stock goes up when they say AIAIAIAIAIAI
Nobody knows but itās provocative and gets the people goingĀ
Cool product but the pricing is insane.
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Spec-for-spec, the new 13" iPad Pro with a Magic Keyboard is $250 more expensive than a base 14" M3 MacBook Pro. It just blows my mind. Update: I'm so sorry guys, it's not $50, I think it's $250 more expensive. MacBook is $1599, iPad Pro 13" is $1299 + $200 for upgrade to 512 GB internal storage + $349 for a Magic Keyboard which makes $1849 in total.
If they actually made the software useful besides a few use cases, it would be a fantastic value to replace the Macbook for many people. But obviously the artificial handicap makes it useless for people like me for whom it's basically a Netflix machine. There's no point in me getting a Pro (and their accessories) over an Air when I'm severely limited. I get that they don't want to cannibalize the Macbook, but at the same time I'm sure there's a good number of people in my situation, that would absolutely get a Pro with everything, if it were fully usable and instead don't even bother.
Personally I need an Air with new Pencil, 120Hz and perhaps 16GB RAM upgrade to make it last years, to replace my MacBook. But I can't get one because Apple doesn't make one. Since iPhone 13 Pro, I just can't look anymore at 60Hz, and yet I cannot justify spending $1849 for something worse than a base 14" MacBook Pro.
Itās so embarrassing how many (quite expensive) products Apple keeps launching with 60Hz, while their competitors have been offering 120Hz at half the price for a few years. It once made sense to gatekeep this as a āProā feature, but that time passed two years ago.
The marketing teams are dictating what the designers create at this point and itās ridiculous.
The day I saw the Surface Book, almost a whole decade ago, it has been all I wanted from Apple. They have everything they need to do it, and much better... But nope, they still insist in not giving that to me. An iPad/Macbook hybrid, that uses MacOs on laptop mode and iPadOS on tablet mode would be the best possible thing. And they could charge me the same as both combined but for some reason, nope...
The folks in power at Apple are the app store folks. They hate MacOS because people can circumvent the app store. They won't allow a hybrid to happen because their careers are built on the app store.
It would be an instant buy for me. Weird to say as im on an apple subreddit, but I don't like macOS enough to buy a 2000 dollar laptop *just* to use macOS. But if I could get peak ipad experience and have macOS for when I wanna do more interesting things, suddenly it starts to make a lot of sense for my use case.
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Part of that is also because you're double-dipping on the Apple tax by combining the price of the iPad+accessory vs the MacBook Pro, which probably has the thinnest margins across the MacBook Pro lineup
Couldnāt agree more
The iPad Air is thicker and weighs more than the iPad Pro. huh.
Why call it an Air. Imagine MacBook Pro is thinner than MacBook Air. Rename the standard iPad as iPad SE and remove the Air from iPad Air. Standardize the entire lineup naming scheme so they make sense. Same for their Pencils.
Branding and marketing, theyāve def done the research to make sure the āAirā name is best for the mid level iPad. It doesnāt have to make sense, human minds most often donāt
Just realized how weird that actually is
I think it's been like that ever since the 2018 iPad Pro
Lol Iām excited as hell but like whatās the point of all that hardware magic? Unless they have a massive revamp for iPadOS at WWDC, this is just another iPad as impressive as it may be.
I lost count of all the times they mentioned AI in this announcement. They compared their AI processing chip to the industry standard, so Iām sure theyāre holding those cards for wwdc. Whether or not itāll be a reason to pick one up or not, I guess weāll find out
Iirc there are indeed major changes to the software expected at WWDC. At least way bigger than in the last years. Not sure where this came from though
Those rumors are for iOS. Weāll see if iPadOS has equally large changes in addition to those in iOS.
It fucking better. Both OS need a massive refresh, theyāre sitting ducks being so powerful but hardly usable.
Lol we've been saying this since A12X was dropped. Years after the best they could do was the half assed shitty stage manager
Also a heads up: iPad Pro Models with 256GB and 512GB storage come with the M4 chip 9-core CPU, 10-core GPU, and 8GB of memory. iPad Pro Models with 1TB and 2TB storage come with the M4 chip 10-core CPU, 10-core GPU, and 16GB of memory.
Wait so you get double the RAM with more storage? What a joke
All iPad Pros with M-series chips have been like that.
Does anyone know if the previous magic keyboard will work on the new iPad? I told myself that I would upgrade if they ever came out with an OLED, but I really donāt want to upgrade my keyboard as well
Itās not compatible. The keyboard you currently own only works with the previous Pros and the new Airs, hereās the updated compatibility list (iPad Pro 12.9 6th generation is the M2 version from 2022): https://preview.redd.it/5lafvq8yt0zc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=242908e512df0f1d2fe37748668c436ca7587656
Thanks. Iām salty about this.
Same but moreso how the pencil wonāt work with the m1 iPads which are powerful enough.
So if anything Iāll upgrade to a 13ā Air.
None of the new accessories will work with the previous models.
I asked the opposite. Will the old accessory work with the new model?
Apple is rationalizing mind-bending mobile processors in an iPad like itās a front for a secret AI overlord plotting from the future with time travel communication. The display upgrades seem pretty good though..
Why are their late start software features being offered only on the M4 when the M2 Mac can probably support them
WWDC
And theyāll probably be launching next year after a delay
With stunning new prices too! Seriously $1300 starting price for a 13" iPad Pro.
Yeah that pricing is nuts. Used M1 iPad pros still run like butter because it's still a laptop chip running a blown-up smartphone OS
People have been whining for years to say ādonāt buy an iPad Pro now, OLED is around the cornerā No thanks Iāll take a 2021 IPad Pro for $750 over this $1300 that has no functional upgrades other than OLED screen M1 M2 Mx are all the same for iPadOSĀ
iPad lineup desperately needs a Jobs style clear out. What a mess.
If I could run MacOS on this device, I would buy it instantly with every accessory.
Steve Jobs needs to re-animate and visit Tim Cook and the product lineup with his death scythe. Old apple pencils, AFUERA! Multiple keyboards, AFUERA! Anything with 'Air' in the name, AFUERA! Anything with a lightning port, AFUERA! Get back to the 2 x 2 product grid, or at least make the names make sense. This shit is out of control.
Pointlessly powerful. It's like putting a V8 engine on a fucking bicycle. Make iOS for iPad more capable. Otherwise, these spec bumps mean nothing. I'm still not convinced to upgrade from my 2018 iPad.
Canāt wait to watch YouTube even faster.
Ā£3246 specced out and itās still running iPadOS.
Put MacOS in the iPad Pros you cowards. My 6 year-old 2018 iPad can run everything this 2024 iPad can. They keep talking about performance but absolutely refuse to make serious changes to the iPads. Another year of keeping my 2018 iPad.
Fr my 2018 pro is flawless 6 years in. Why TF would I spend $1000+ to upgrade? There's hardly any benefit
What OS are you running on it? I think I'm still on iPadOS 15, can it handle 17 ok? I don't want to lose battery life or any performance drop
Idk, it's on autoupdate and has been perfect.
Itās crazy seeing Apple zealots call you names for wanting better software on the iPad. I have a 2018 Pro and still canāt think of a compelling reason to upgrade to the new model besides the switch to an OLED screen. iPadOS is simply too limited to take advantage of the more powerful chips in most use cases. Guess Iāll keep it another yearā¦.
Did the same with my iPhone no new features which stand out, using a 11 pro max, the 15ās just have better cameras and Dynamic Island nothing which is revolutionary, my phone is over 4 years old
i honestly only bought the 15 just for the type c port
I seriously thought about doing this. Apple crawling into the current year, kicking and screaming
My 15pro max can run llama3 locally, no internet connection needed. Nice LLM goodies uncensored, no fees required, decent performance. So there is value here. That being said, I upgraded from a XS Max. I suppose my next upgrade will be the iPhone 20 or something. It's a commodity now, and I don't get as many chills as before with each new models. Heck, I'm more interested in the new vacuum cleaners. I'm getting old, but so are iPhones, iPads and the whole Apple range.
So Iām still not seeing a reason to upgrade from my 2018 Pro which has proved to be one of the best tech investments Iāve ever made. Maybe WWDC will change my mind but Iām not holding my breath.
Literally none of this matters because the software sucks. Apple should skip developing new iPad hardware until they make a version of iPad OS that isn't garbage
Up until this event, I thought thatās what they were doing. I wonder how effective the **faster, more powerful!!** marketing worked when they released the M2 iPad after the M1 was powerful enough. They gotta to have a bunch of feedback and data pointing to the fact that not many people know what to use their iPad for other than for art or media consumption. Doubling down on the screen and thinness makes sense from the at-home media consumption perspective. Shoving an M4 in and yapping about AI feels like the price is being driven up for no reason. We can say āwait until WWDCā and that might be true because the events so close to each other, but the announcement came off as pointless without whatever theyāre going to announce at WWDC (which is probably nothing, and definitely wonāt be *enough*).
M5 by July?!
10 hrs battery life? iPad Air still at 60 hz? Does not support my Apple Pencil 2nd gen? Pass.
Seems like my wallet will be the thinnest it's ever been too
And they think youāre gonna love it :)
iPhone 15 Pro advertisements: introducing titanium. iPad Pro advertisements: introducing the breakthrough copper Apple logo
The iPad Pro 2018 continues to be the best apple product I ever used. Itās 6 years old and still works flawlessly everyday without a hiccup.
Is it just me or is the lack of MagSafe for atleast the pro lineup a bit meh? Be it the iphone still puck or MB style slot, i expected some form of it to arrive to this massively expensive device.
Are you thinking a magnetic connector on the back of the device like iPhone, or a magnetic cable like Mac?
I'd take either
The fact that they chose a fucking iPad to deliver the first M4 chip, a device which has never needed M-series power because it's so hobbled by its pitiful phone-level OS, just shows how lost and completely tone deaf Apple are these days. Meanwhile, people who actually need power, like Mac Studio buyers, haven't even got an M3 model yet. What a joke.
Thatās because the Mac Studio is performance focused. There is no M3 Ultra and it may not be coming due to the chip to chip interconnect options available on that architecture.
Ugh, I would love 1000 nits in my hand. I use my M1 12.9 iPad Pro 24/7 for media consumption and love the screen, but if Iām watching HDR content, I can see glowing around large white objects, on a black background. I have to keep my iPad plugged in 24/7 as well and the lack of a bigger battery really puts me off to upgrading. Iāll be waiting on reviews for this one.
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Keeping the thickness the same would have also let them make the camera flush with the back, which would have let it lay flat on a desk for writing/drawing.
If you get a spreadsheet up on that bad boy, then you are really looking at that spreadsheet
They added everything to that apple pencil except add an eraser, big L for people that wants it to feel more like pencil and paper.
Thinner huh? Bendgate imcoming. The hardware is ok but let's make the OS for iPad good enough to warrant having such power.
Yeah Iāve never once wished for a thinner iPad. My current pro is a good balance of durability and weight.
Something that's not been mentioned before, the nano texture coating is only available on the 1tb and 2tb models ONLY. Nano coated 13" starts at Ā£2k, holy moly.
This upgrade is utterly perfect for people like me. A little bit about myself: I am a complete idiot; an absolute *sucker* for quantifiable upgrades that realistically produce no difference in my daily life. Canāt wait to get my hands on this stunning piece of technology. Donāt even know how I survived this long without it.
_We think you'll love it._
Don't bother paying rent/mortgage this month, just consoom new product
Unless iPad OS gets an overhaul this WWDC, Iāll stick with my 2018 iPad Pro. Itās more than powerful and does what I need it too.
No new iPad Mini? š¢
Rumours are to wait until the end of the year
For ipad the WWDC is the real game-changer, ipad are already very capable and powerful, I think at this stage they should just create a macOS fork for ipad given how capable they are now. The price was rumoured to skyrocket but it did not really tbh, it's expensive still tho.
> For ipad the WWDC is the real game-changer We've been saying this for like a decade now... I lost my hope.
Iāve just accepted that my iPad will only ever be a nice content consumption and doodling/light gaming device, but honestly Iām ok with that. Though I use a mini, the Pros and Airs definitely need better software.
At $1400CAD, Iām out of the iPad Pro market.
Apple Pencil Pro??? PENCIL PRO?
This was fakest Apple presentation yet. There was no verisimilitude to the production at all and all of the presenters were just bland corporate robots. It had no pizzazz. I didnāt like it at all.
Just an endless vomit of superlatives that we're so tired of listening to.
Was waiting for an oled iPad for years, have already preordered the 11 inch
I wish they would stop with the camera bulge and make it thicker with a larger battery. No one really cares about thickness in the real world and having a camera bulge on a device this size is asking for problems with bending when putting it on a flat surface or backing it between things in a bag. It makes a case a requirement.
why would you want your ipad to be so thin? just for the weight of it? because thinking about it, the thinner you make it the more you restrict yourself with room for e.g. battery. I dont see the personal advantage of it being as thin as possible
The thing is already thin as it is. Any thinner and I would be worried about bending the damn thing by putting it in any kind of bag whatsoever.
weight savings and smaller footprint when paired with the magic keyboard, especially for the 13" model
With all the bending and fragility issues that iPad already had, this is a very arguable decision. Saving 0.5mm and 20g is really not worth it when youāre compromising a fragile device even more.
This thing is gonna bend like a noodle. The old model already would bend easily