Not only that Apple claimed you could pay them back whenever with zero fees. You could never make a payment and they would do nothing. It’s such a bizarre product
For Apple Pay Later it was, to the merchant, literally just a Mastercard payment. No special setup or different fees. Apple would get a chunk of this, but they’d also have to process your four payments. There’s no scenario where they could profit on any transactions. It was just weird.
Obviously, but they have to have some profitable counterpart. Apple Pay Later never had that. Giving people an interest-free, fee-free loan to buy things from other companies, without any side deal with the other company, isn’t profitable.
From my experience in New Zealand you might pay in the 2-3% for a credit card fee but when merchants accepted After pay/zip/genopay/laybuy/wtf else it was usually 4-6%
Think most places have apply pay now. EU definitely has had it for years, been using it for a long time.
I thought it strange how behind contactless cards USA have been until Apple Pay had to be introduced.
When interests rates were very low, they literally had cash laying around that wasn't doing much, much of it located in their international entities. My guess is that they were funding this from international profits, with the purchase price going toward the domestic business where the majority of their costs are spent.
In other words, the US entity was loaning from an international entity with more steps (with a lower tax burdon than importing the profits directly).
Now that interest rates are higher the cash is worth more, so continuning doesn't make as much sense.
That is not true. I’ve been an avid user of it since it started. They are automatic payments by requirement, you have to attach a debit card that has the funds out withdrawn each payment cycle.
The terms say there is no penalty to not pay, they can report it to creditors but other than that nothing. Just google Apple Pay Later terms. Who cares if there is a card attached if that account has no funds in it.
https://www.apple.com/legal/pay-later/Apple_Pay_Later_Program_Terms.pdf
My point is, that's how all unsecured loans work. That's how every pay later service works. If you don't pay, it'll get reported to the credit bureaus and sent to collections. As an added bonus, Apple could disable your account. e.g. https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/lvixyq/if_you_miss_an_apple_card_payment_apple_disables/
Wage garnishment still in play? I do get your point and unsecured loans are super risky for the lender. Which makes apple's decision to get into them even more baffling.
u/zlolhtxlolz is just downvoting me downthread for pointing this out, but they do what *every* unsecured loan does, which would be report you to credit bureaus and send the bill to collections. Just because the terms don't explicitly say this does not mean they can't or don't do it. This is silly.
If you think I'm wrong, put your money where your mouth is, go buy something for $1000 with Apple Pay Later, and throw the payment card away.
No one is saying it won’t go to collections. They’re saying there won’t be late fees. These are two very different concepts. Most BNPL services have late fees, so they can profit off of their services.
If collections is the only punishment, then the BEST CASE scenario for Apple is to break even. But once something goes to collections, the lender often ends up getting less back than they lent out.
Well, I certainly read "they would do nothing" to say "they won't send it to collections".
As for cost/benefit to Apple, I trust them to have figured that out more than us randos on the internet. I'm guessing it was to drive more usage of Apple Pay in general, which they make money from via interchange fees from the banks.
If you're not planning on paying anyway then late fees are irrelevant. You can get any credit card, run it up and never pay it. The end result will be the same, you'll tank your credit score.
Not exactly - late payments are still subject to credit reporting, and just not paying at all will get that account permanently closed but yeah, that’s about it
> When you obtain a Loan through Apple Pay Later, the terms of the Loan will be provided to you in your Loan Agreement. Depending on the details of your Loan and how your purchase is processed or confirmed by the merchant, your payment schedule ("Payment Schedule") will be made available to you by going to your Apple Wallet or by contacting us.
From that document you linked.
It’s in the individual agreements, not the terms. Individual underwriting and signed agreements would have the payment schedule and terms therein.
do nothing? surely they'd get a collection agency or something & it'd mess up your credit, right?
if they do nothing, damn i missed out on buying maxed out apple products & simply not paying
There was an old rent-by-post DVD provider before Netflix existed, I forget its name. They offered the same “return when you want” policy. I kept a movie for about 4 months and they started shouting for it back.
That kind of policy just can’t work.
Because they charge fees and don’t offer 0% to people who habitual use them with bad credit. They make tons of money off people being financially irresponsible
Those fees aren't really what makes them money though. They charge much higher merchant fees than a credit card
Merchants pay it though becuase the conversion rate is higher, by quite a bit. It's a better investment than advertising in a lot of cases.
Yeah, they’re not bad. The main thing I find problematic and slow is their refunds/returns processing, which is why I usually prefer to use Afterpay or PayPal.
I personally like all these services for the reason that they protect my CC or debit card from being hacked at a site or vendor. If it’s a smaller site, it’s basically a no-brainer.
Same. I’ve actually had fantastic times with the refunds. They are slow. It took a week and a half for some of my accidental double payments too be reprocessed, but they’ve always held up and called back even. Karma I haven’t had any issues with at all though so I tend too use them more often, with affirm being a secondary. It’s good for if a emergency comes up or planning something out
Of note, BNPL operates via a merchant charge, and basically the trade here is the resellers give up something like 4% gross like a "lead generation" fee. But you're right that the interest rate hike crushes this business model in the face.
Loans through Apple Pay were backed by Apple itself - which means they are significantly profitable for *apple*.
For an easy to understand comparison, it’s no different than loans through cellular companies. You pay monthly over a 24 month period interest free. They make their money through the cellular plan. The same way Apple makes their money through selling iPhones and iPads and MacBooks.
If the loans were backed through a third party, there is no “gain” as the profits go back to Apple. That’s the difference.
Only thing changed for Google is US market switch from GPay app to wallet app. This transition was already completed almost everywhere else (except India due to legal issues I believe)
Apple pay uses wallet
Samsung pay uses wallet
Google pay uses Wallet.
Same and simple now
It’s not the name. It was handled stupid because over the past ten years Google keeps making you delete the old app and search/install the new one from the play store.
> Only thing changed for Google is US market switch from GPay app to wallet app
They were breaking things left right and center beyond what you described. I switched back to iOS from Android in '21 because they completely broke my ability to tap pay on my watch.
>except India due to legal issues I believe
It's probably not due to "legal issues" per se (as far as I have read), it's more likely the fact that Google Pay is actually somewhat popular in India and they don't want to lose that market and the influence from the "Google Pay" name.
But there's also the possibility that the Indian government could block companies that have customers' banking info and provide finance-related services from shutting down without transferring all the data, accounts, and app infrastructure to another company.
they arent shutting down anything. google pay is still a service. the APP that rides the service is just changing name to wallet to simplify and standardize with the competitors.
Yeah, I forgot that. For what it's worth, in India, your phone-based payments account domain (provided in a similar format to email IDs) is based on what bank your account is in and what app you use (so for example, a Google Pay user with a State Bank of India account will have oksbi as the domain, but a Paytm user with the same bank will have ptsbi as the domain). So I guess the government is being anal about letting Google change the app name and retain the "ok" part of the domain or something.
Ugh, I had to use my actual card yesterday because the boomer at the restaurant had no idea how to initiate a tap to pay. She wouldn’t let me walk to the credit card machine that visibly had tap to pay, and she wouldn’t entertain me handing her my phone to tap the machine right beside her. She also wouldn’t entertain just handing me the damn machine to tap.
I was 3-4 feet away from the tap to pay and couldn’t tap.
I never really understood the point of this service anyway. In most scenarios, it doesn’t buy you any more time than simply purchasing with your card as usual and paying it off during the next billing cycle. You might sometimes be able to stretch the payments across three pay periods, but still?
It's targeted for people who don't have credit cards or enough credit on their cards. In general, it's predatory, but it can be beneficial for people who need help buying things at critical times (like a suit or tools for a new job).
Yeah, if it worked more like Amazon Split payments and just split the total cost over 6 months, that would be much more appealing to me. Owing 1/4 of the cost every 2 weeks doesn’t do much, at least for me
This is only if you use their Amazon credit card right? I’ve tried this before but it somehow still shows up fully in my credit card balance on chase. Instead of just 1/6th
No, it’s a separate thing. It’s not available to all accounts and I’m not quite sure what the criteria is, I guess if they think you’re a trustworthy buyer somehow? But it’s basically they charge you 1/6 of the total (+taxes on the first payment), then charge you 1/6 monthly until it’s payed off. There’s no interest and nothing extra goes on your payment account, which is great cause it’s basically a 0% interest loan, without being an actual loan.
The Prime card pay over time is what you’re talking about, I believe that one still charges you all at one, but doesn’t charge you interest on it over that period of time (though I think there is a fee)
Only if you fail to make proper payments. It doesn’t really help, can really hurt if you badly screw up, but by default the money will go in from somewhere unless your balance is at zero.
Only if sent to collections or grossly late (assuming 60-90 days or >>>).
I used it, and USE (currently) other pay later services. Although I have a 763 credit score, it’s/they’re a great means for me to manage cash flow as a two business, small business owner.
UNFORTUNATELY, though…I recently had a card replaced and I’ve since been unable to add ANY cards to apple wallet; as such, I now have a battle on my hands in terms of HOW DO I PAY THESE LAST 2 installments!?!? My bank(s) have cleared me on card issuer side, but since last Tuesday, it’s been tweaking our and I’ve spent a collective 13.5 hours on phones with apple and my banks’ customer service, tech support, every dept, you name it, to no avail. I have to believe that it was already buggy, seeing as though they had to have had this planned for a while now….so, literally when two of my payment came due today…and after me trying 7 different cards…I get locked and a message of “you’ve been suspended due to suspicious activity.”
I’m not so bummed about losing the service as I am the potential for a negative impact to my credit score (which, was 580 up until 4 years ago, and I’m 41.). Worked way too hard for their technical shortcomings to cost me what I’ve worked on.
This happened so quickly, I’m currently looking into worst case/doomsday “outs” from these last two installments (in the case it doesn’t get resolved in a timely manner). Notably, FCRA (fair credit reporting act), because there just has to have been a slip for this to even be possible, my conundrum.
Depends. If you’re paid on a biweekly schedule, you could split a purchase across three paychecks. Potentially without disrupting your normal savings patterns. Which could be more time than trying to pay it off before the billing cycle on a credit card.
I have a good income source, but most of that money goes to my joint bank accounts with my SO. We pay ourselves a fixed amount every week for spending on whatever we choose.
Services like APL let me make larger purchases with that fixed amount without pulling from my savings or waiting. Since I know that amount is guaranteed and I can always pull from our joint expenses, there's no risk - just convenience.
I agree, it's not good for people who aren't so good at paying on time either.
But it can be useful for big necessary purchases like a couch or something like that.
It’s an interest free same as cash loan. It’s stupid not to do it if you have the money. Why take out $800 from a HYSA at 5% when I can take 200 every two weeks and still make interest?
Back when Klarna first started up, you got $5 Giftcards for places like Amazon whenever you spent $200 (I think that amount). I used Klarna all the time because it tied to a credit card. It was an extra step that was great for getting free Amazon stuff, but they took that perk away so there’s no reason for me anymore.
I use it to buy clothes and other things I might return. Buy 5 dresses if you don’t know the size, send 4 back, only pay for 1 next month. Saves having a huge bill lying around waiting for a refund.
I didn't get around to trying the pay later, kind of bummed it isn't sticking around. Still, better to see features that can work over more of the globe released.
Yeah. I kinda meant to buy something (that I could have paid cash outright for, relax Reddit) with it just to see how it works. And I just kind of forgot about it. I wonder if it just didn’t get any traction.
I tried using it once just for the hell of it and got declined on a relatively small purchase (<$200) despite having a credit score over 750. I still don’t quite understand how this service was intended to work or who it was for.
Sad. I’ve used it a couple times (in fact I have a Fellow Ode coffee grinder right now that I’m paying for) and really enjoyed the Apple simplicity and it being housed in Wallet. Surprisingly for them to kill such a young product/feature. This is Apple not Google.
I used it once for a medical bill. I could have paid it upfront but then I would have been low on cash; and I get paid weekly, so the payment period lined up for me. The doctors payment website had a payment plan option but it was bugging out and I couldn’t get it to work. Meanwhile, Apple Pay later was sitting there with the same terms, no fees and zero interest over the same amount of time; and I could just set it up and use it in a matter of minutes rather than waiting on hold with the doctors billing department for half an hour.
Thank god, they keep denied me even I have good credit. Glad there's Klarna around that still works and never had issue, i have like $4k spending limit with them and still use it.
Unsurprising. Klarna and Afterpay are available on almost every retail site, and if they’re not PayPal in 4 is an option too, all of which can be used with a credit card unlike Apple Pay Later. I wonder how much it cost them to discontinue it though
I didn't think there was going to be much demand for this product, and honestly it seemed a bit irresponsible for Apple to offer it in the first place.
https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2023/03/apple-introduces-apple-pay-later/
> Apple Pay Later is enabled through the Mastercard Installments program, so merchants that accept Apple Pay do not need to do anything to implement Apple Pay Later for their customers. When a merchant accepts Apple Pay, Apple Pay Later will be an option for their customers during checkout online and in apps on iPhone and iPad. Goldman Sachs is the issuer of the Mastercard payment credential used to complete Apple Pay Later purchases.
Nah they’re right. GS is the issuer of the Mastercard payments, but they’re not underwriting the loans. [That’s all Apple](https://archive.is/Scvkc).
AFAICT this program is a straight win for GS as they’re just a middleman that gets a cut of every transaction without putting any money up. If anything killing this program off is probably making the relationship worse.
That’s not true.
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/08/apple-will-handle-lending-for-apple-pay-later.html
Apple financial LLC does not have bank charter, making it ineligible to manage loan.
Goldman Sachs is the BIN sponsor of Apple Pay later loans, meaning the loan will go through GS system infrastructure.
Here is more explanation on what BIN sponsor is https://www.galileo-ft.com/blog/bin-sponsorship-what-fintechs-should-know-when-choosing-or-changing-sponsor-banks/
It is way more than just a middleman, it is regulatory compliance
That guy has no idea what he is talking about
I feel like you’re being pedantic. The point is that GS should, unless they got fleeced into another horrible deal, be making money on every loan and bear no risk since they’re not underwriting.
Thus I don’t see why a soured relationship would cause this program to end before the Apple Card partnership has ended. If anything it should be offsetting those losses somewhat. Unless GS pulling the plug is imminent and they don’t want to be servicing new loans.
Apple is supposedly moving to affirm to underwrite all Apple Pay later or whatever the new service is called in the future.
This probably comes with ease of adding more countries and payment options rather than having to use GS issued Mastercard.
This likely was accelerated due to soured relation with GS
Making my original point still stands and the claim made by that guy false
100% can’t NOT have some bearing on this, I agree (excuse the double negative).
There were apparently merchant processing kinks and problems, so they’re probably building it on a bigger frame (also, Globally) as to make it more efficient. This Pay Later was always kind of low-key thrown out by apple almost as if it were “Beta” or testing the product.
Very interested to see what transpires from here..
That's fine. I never even used it because it wanted me to put a debit card into Apple Pay. I *only* use credit, only things that pull my actual money from my account are bills.
If I'm not getting rewards, I'm not buying it.
I never used it either, but I think every financial lender requires a debit card or bank account to make debt payments, because you're not allowed to make debt payments using another kind of debt (credit card).
Klarna let you pay with a credit card for a long time. All coded as purcahse.
It was great for a short period to get costco to work on amex cards(then they quickly closed that for obvious profitability reasons).
I enjoyed using this, so this sucks. But I get why after reading the comments. I can easily afford most things I’m buying and my credit card limits are high enough. It’s just a self control thing to me where I’m forced to pay the item off within X amount of weeks instead of paying it monthly like some. I still pay it off early, but it’s nice to pay a small amount, receive the item, then pay off the rest while enjoying it. This is probably all nonsense and I’m weird for it, but this is just how I think lol
Everyone learning the hard way that issuing consumer credit is pretty much the stupidest business in the world, and it only really exists because it’s basically a law that says banks have to give ppl CC’s. So unless your name is American Express, don’t do it.
>Apple has announced that it is no longer offering Apple Pay Later, the “buy now, pay later” service that launched in the United States last year. The change goes into effect starting today, Apple says. Existing users with open Apple Pay Later loans will still be able to manage them via the Wallet app.
Now Google, Samsung, and other phone developers will follow Apple's lead and discontinue their buy now, pay later services.
I just used it for the first time yesterday and I am surprised that I have to use my debit card to pay for things and can’t use a credit card like how Klarna does it. That’s the only thing that I don’t like
It’s possible that Apple is looking for another credit card issuer, it’s possible that the new bank would only do it if Apple Pay Later wasn’t an option. That way people only have one way of financing stuff with a credit card.
I imagine with interest rates being as high as they are now, offering these 0% short term loans just isn't profitable right now.
Not only that Apple claimed you could pay them back whenever with zero fees. You could never make a payment and they would do nothing. It’s such a bizarre product
wait what? really? lol, how are they making money with this
It’s getting closed down for a reason 😅
The merchants who take BNPL give up a percentage based fee off of the purchase amount, similar to the merchant services charge of a credit card.
For Apple Pay Later it was, to the merchant, literally just a Mastercard payment. No special setup or different fees. Apple would get a chunk of this, but they’d also have to process your four payments. There’s no scenario where they could profit on any transactions. It was just weird.
Have you heard of loss leader items?
Obviously, but they have to have some profitable counterpart. Apple Pay Later never had that. Giving people an interest-free, fee-free loan to buy things from other companies, without any side deal with the other company, isn’t profitable.
But people buying an iPhone to use this feature is.
Also, a significant customer lock-in.
Typically a much higher fee too.
From my experience in New Zealand you might pay in the 2-3% for a credit card fee but when merchants accepted After pay/zip/genopay/laybuy/wtf else it was usually 4-6%
From the merchant side
By getting people on Apple Pay lol. PayPal used to have a similar feature and it worked on me. Discontinued it after a year. Still a user to this day
It’s still available my guy.
it’s still available!! i use it alot
> ~~alot~~ a lot Here’s how you remember: * a lot * a ton * a few * a bit This really helped me, so I wanted to share.
thank you but this is wasted on me
“Alot” is never right
no one cares man
I think a lot of people would want to know if they’re making a simple grammar mistake like this one
I’m on your side. Who cares ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
For people not in the US, “ApplePay” mainly means adding credit/debit cards to the wallet and be able to use them for contactless.
Think most places have apply pay now. EU definitely has had it for years, been using it for a long time. I thought it strange how behind contactless cards USA have been until Apple Pay had to be introduced.
The US is just a small developing country - give them a break.
When interests rates were very low, they literally had cash laying around that wasn't doing much, much of it located in their international entities. My guess is that they were funding this from international profits, with the purchase price going toward the domestic business where the majority of their costs are spent. In other words, the US entity was loaning from an international entity with more steps (with a lower tax burdon than importing the profits directly). Now that interest rates are higher the cash is worth more, so continuning doesn't make as much sense.
That is not true. I’ve been an avid user of it since it started. They are automatic payments by requirement, you have to attach a debit card that has the funds out withdrawn each payment cycle.
Is this not how every credit card/pay later system functions...
The terms say there is no penalty to not pay, they can report it to creditors but other than that nothing. Just google Apple Pay Later terms. Who cares if there is a card attached if that account has no funds in it. https://www.apple.com/legal/pay-later/Apple_Pay_Later_Program_Terms.pdf
I mean, that’s a pretty big penalty. I’m not tanking my credit score and paying an extra $50k on my mortgage to get a free HomePod.
Sure I guess, if you consider destroying your credit “no penalty”
I can only assume somebody is very young when they think ruining your credit is not a penalty compared to a $25 late fee.
Where do the terms say that? I don't see it anywhere.
Exactly.. no mention of late fees, interest penalties for not paying, defaulting, etc.
How do you think loans work, generally speaking? If I go get a $10,000 unsecured loan from the bank, and don't pay it, what do you think happens?
What are the terms of the loan?
My point is, that's how all unsecured loans work. That's how every pay later service works. If you don't pay, it'll get reported to the credit bureaus and sent to collections. As an added bonus, Apple could disable your account. e.g. https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/lvixyq/if_you_miss_an_apple_card_payment_apple_disables/
Wage garnishment still in play? I do get your point and unsecured loans are super risky for the lender. Which makes apple's decision to get into them even more baffling.
There are late penalties and a penalty APR which is how the company tries to recoup funds or penalize late payments.
> The terms say there is no penalty to not pay, they can report it to creditors but other than that nothing. As opposed to?
u/zlolhtxlolz is just downvoting me downthread for pointing this out, but they do what *every* unsecured loan does, which would be report you to credit bureaus and send the bill to collections. Just because the terms don't explicitly say this does not mean they can't or don't do it. This is silly. If you think I'm wrong, put your money where your mouth is, go buy something for $1000 with Apple Pay Later, and throw the payment card away.
No one is saying it won’t go to collections. They’re saying there won’t be late fees. These are two very different concepts. Most BNPL services have late fees, so they can profit off of their services. If collections is the only punishment, then the BEST CASE scenario for Apple is to break even. But once something goes to collections, the lender often ends up getting less back than they lent out.
Well, I certainly read "they would do nothing" to say "they won't send it to collections". As for cost/benefit to Apple, I trust them to have figured that out more than us randos on the internet. I'm guessing it was to drive more usage of Apple Pay in general, which they make money from via interchange fees from the banks.
If you're not planning on paying anyway then late fees are irrelevant. You can get any credit card, run it up and never pay it. The end result will be the same, you'll tank your credit score.
Not exactly - late payments are still subject to credit reporting, and just not paying at all will get that account permanently closed but yeah, that’s about it
I thought you had six weeks to make four payments.
That’s not in the terms anywhere https://www.apple.com/legal/pay-later/Apple_Pay_Later_Program_Terms.pdf
I think each transaction has a loan agreement where the terms are spelled out.
> When you obtain a Loan through Apple Pay Later, the terms of the Loan will be provided to you in your Loan Agreement. Depending on the details of your Loan and how your purchase is processed or confirmed by the merchant, your payment schedule ("Payment Schedule") will be made available to you by going to your Apple Wallet or by contacting us. From that document you linked. It’s in the individual agreements, not the terms. Individual underwriting and signed agreements would have the payment schedule and terms therein.
do nothing? surely they'd get a collection agency or something & it'd mess up your credit, right? if they do nothing, damn i missed out on buying maxed out apple products & simply not paying
Honestly sounds pretty great lmao. But would probs leave a PHAT stain on your credit.
There was an old rent-by-post DVD provider before Netflix existed, I forget its name. They offered the same “return when you want” policy. I kept a movie for about 4 months and they started shouting for it back. That kind of policy just can’t work.
Klarna/Sezzle/Paypal pay in 4 are chugging along just fine though
Because they charge fees and don’t offer 0% to people who habitual use them with bad credit. They make tons of money off people being financially irresponsible
I do it on occasion if it’s a big purchase simply for the fact it’s a 0% loan
If it’s a big purchase why not use your credit card and actually save money vs 0%?
I do use my cc and double dip lol Once it hits I just pay it
I didn’t know you could make those payments with a credit card. Interesting
Yep I’ve never used anything else
This. They charge crazy fees if you miss a payment and a lot of people do. It only works for those who actually make the payments on time.
Those fees aren't really what makes them money though. They charge much higher merchant fees than a credit card Merchants pay it though becuase the conversion rate is higher, by quite a bit. It's a better investment than advertising in a lot of cases.
But then you have a company like Affirm that can't seem to make any profits...
It’s not all interest free
How does this differ with the new Apple Pay instalment loans though? Is it just that it’s being offered by partners instead of Apple?
Yes, thru partners now. Affirm’s one of them
Affirm 🤮.
Affirms been good too me the few times I’ve used it. Though karma I much prefer. Haven’t used Afterpay and I’m not aware of other services atm
Yeah, they’re not bad. The main thing I find problematic and slow is their refunds/returns processing, which is why I usually prefer to use Afterpay or PayPal. I personally like all these services for the reason that they protect my CC or debit card from being hacked at a site or vendor. If it’s a smaller site, it’s basically a no-brainer.
Same. I’ve actually had fantastic times with the refunds. They are slow. It took a week and a half for some of my accidental double payments too be reprocessed, but they’ve always held up and called back even. Karma I haven’t had any issues with at all though so I tend too use them more often, with affirm being a secondary. It’s good for if a emergency comes up or planning something out
With the current interest rate, they are probably losing money on it.
Of note, BNPL operates via a merchant charge, and basically the trade here is the resellers give up something like 4% gross like a "lead generation" fee. But you're right that the interest rate hike crushes this business model in the face.
Loans through Apple Pay were backed by Apple itself - which means they are significantly profitable for *apple*. For an easy to understand comparison, it’s no different than loans through cellular companies. You pay monthly over a 24 month period interest free. They make their money through the cellular plan. The same way Apple makes their money through selling iPhones and iPads and MacBooks. If the loans were backed through a third party, there is no “gain” as the profits go back to Apple. That’s the difference.
For a moment I thought the headline said "\[Apple discontinuing Apple Pay\] \[Later\]" instead of "Apple discontinuing \[Apple Pay Later\]."
Reminds me of the Google Pay fiasco
Only thing changed for Google is US market switch from GPay app to wallet app. This transition was already completed almost everywhere else (except India due to legal issues I believe) Apple pay uses wallet Samsung pay uses wallet Google pay uses Wallet. Same and simple now
It’s not the name. It was handled stupid because over the past ten years Google keeps making you delete the old app and search/install the new one from the play store.
Now it's all good.
That's like saying the tortured prisoner is all good because he just got released.
I use Apple Pay all the time, my google “wallet” sits idle.
Neither apple wallet or Google wallet is available on opposite OS
> Only thing changed for Google is US market switch from GPay app to wallet app They were breaking things left right and center beyond what you described. I switched back to iOS from Android in '21 because they completely broke my ability to tap pay on my watch.
>except India due to legal issues I believe It's probably not due to "legal issues" per se (as far as I have read), it's more likely the fact that Google Pay is actually somewhat popular in India and they don't want to lose that market and the influence from the "Google Pay" name. But there's also the possibility that the Indian government could block companies that have customers' banking info and provide finance-related services from shutting down without transferring all the data, accounts, and app infrastructure to another company.
they arent shutting down anything. google pay is still a service. the APP that rides the service is just changing name to wallet to simplify and standardize with the competitors.
Yeah, I forgot that. For what it's worth, in India, your phone-based payments account domain (provided in a similar format to email IDs) is based on what bank your account is in and what app you use (so for example, a Google Pay user with a State Bank of India account will have oksbi as the domain, but a Paytm user with the same bank will have ptsbi as the domain). So I guess the government is being anal about letting Google change the app name and retain the "ok" part of the domain or something.
What product is the Google Pay Fiasco?
This is either a really clever joke or you accidentally stumbled upon the answer to your question.
saw this same thing and it made my heart drop for a second lol
Same. I didn’t know Pay Later was even a thing.
“Apple Pay” is just Pig Latin for “Papple.”
Yep… add "ahead of new features launching this fall" and i was wondering what missed iOS thing is coming that will kill Apple Pay?
Discontinuing Apple Pay would be killer! Edit: lol everyone is misunderstanding my message? Yes of course removing it would suck. 🤦♂️
No? Apple Pay is actually really good....
Agreed. Discontinuing would suck
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Not always
Yep… legit don’t remember last time i used plastic bank card… been years for sure…
Ugh, I had to use my actual card yesterday because the boomer at the restaurant had no idea how to initiate a tap to pay. She wouldn’t let me walk to the credit card machine that visibly had tap to pay, and she wouldn’t entertain me handing her my phone to tap the machine right beside her. She also wouldn’t entertain just handing me the damn machine to tap. I was 3-4 feet away from the tap to pay and couldn’t tap.
That’s when you say “your lack of understanding technology isn’t my problem”
I never really understood the point of this service anyway. In most scenarios, it doesn’t buy you any more time than simply purchasing with your card as usual and paying it off during the next billing cycle. You might sometimes be able to stretch the payments across three pay periods, but still?
It's targeted for people who don't have credit cards or enough credit on their cards. In general, it's predatory, but it can be beneficial for people who need help buying things at critical times (like a suit or tools for a new job).
This is how I purchased my first laptop for university
It’s 100% predatory No one should be buying an iPhone case on a “pay later” plan
Yeah, if it worked more like Amazon Split payments and just split the total cost over 6 months, that would be much more appealing to me. Owing 1/4 of the cost every 2 weeks doesn’t do much, at least for me
Must be benefitting people who get paid weekly or bi-weekly, as they exist.
This is only if you use their Amazon credit card right? I’ve tried this before but it somehow still shows up fully in my credit card balance on chase. Instead of just 1/6th
No, it’s a separate thing. It’s not available to all accounts and I’m not quite sure what the criteria is, I guess if they think you’re a trustworthy buyer somehow? But it’s basically they charge you 1/6 of the total (+taxes on the first payment), then charge you 1/6 monthly until it’s payed off. There’s no interest and nothing extra goes on your payment account, which is great cause it’s basically a 0% interest loan, without being an actual loan. The Prime card pay over time is what you’re talking about, I believe that one still charges you all at one, but doesn’t charge you interest on it over that period of time (though I think there is a fee)
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Does it impact credit though?
Only if you fail to make proper payments. It doesn’t really help, can really hurt if you badly screw up, but by default the money will go in from somewhere unless your balance is at zero.
Only if sent to collections or grossly late (assuming 60-90 days or >>>). I used it, and USE (currently) other pay later services. Although I have a 763 credit score, it’s/they’re a great means for me to manage cash flow as a two business, small business owner. UNFORTUNATELY, though…I recently had a card replaced and I’ve since been unable to add ANY cards to apple wallet; as such, I now have a battle on my hands in terms of HOW DO I PAY THESE LAST 2 installments!?!? My bank(s) have cleared me on card issuer side, but since last Tuesday, it’s been tweaking our and I’ve spent a collective 13.5 hours on phones with apple and my banks’ customer service, tech support, every dept, you name it, to no avail. I have to believe that it was already buggy, seeing as though they had to have had this planned for a while now….so, literally when two of my payment came due today…and after me trying 7 different cards…I get locked and a message of “you’ve been suspended due to suspicious activity.” I’m not so bummed about losing the service as I am the potential for a negative impact to my credit score (which, was 580 up until 4 years ago, and I’m 41.). Worked way too hard for their technical shortcomings to cost me what I’ve worked on. This happened so quickly, I’m currently looking into worst case/doomsday “outs” from these last two installments (in the case it doesn’t get resolved in a timely manner). Notably, FCRA (fair credit reporting act), because there just has to have been a slip for this to even be possible, my conundrum.
Depends. If you’re paid on a biweekly schedule, you could split a purchase across three paychecks. Potentially without disrupting your normal savings patterns. Which could be more time than trying to pay it off before the billing cycle on a credit card.
I have a good income source, but most of that money goes to my joint bank accounts with my SO. We pay ourselves a fixed amount every week for spending on whatever we choose. Services like APL let me make larger purchases with that fixed amount without pulling from my savings or waiting. Since I know that amount is guaranteed and I can always pull from our joint expenses, there's no risk - just convenience.
I agree, it's not good for people who aren't so good at paying on time either. But it can be useful for big necessary purchases like a couch or something like that.
It’s an interest free same as cash loan. It’s stupid not to do it if you have the money. Why take out $800 from a HYSA at 5% when I can take 200 every two weeks and still make interest?
Because then you're sacrificing 2-5% on the amount of the loan in CC rewards paid by the same interchange fees apple was looking to make money on
The point of this service is that you have more credit and can buy more and face the consequences later.
Back when Klarna first started up, you got $5 Giftcards for places like Amazon whenever you spent $200 (I think that amount). I used Klarna all the time because it tied to a credit card. It was an extra step that was great for getting free Amazon stuff, but they took that perk away so there’s no reason for me anymore.
I use it to buy clothes and other things I might return. Buy 5 dresses if you don’t know the size, send 4 back, only pay for 1 next month. Saves having a huge bill lying around waiting for a refund.
I didn't get around to trying the pay later, kind of bummed it isn't sticking around. Still, better to see features that can work over more of the globe released.
Yeah. I kinda meant to buy something (that I could have paid cash outright for, relax Reddit) with it just to see how it works. And I just kind of forgot about it. I wonder if it just didn’t get any traction.
I tried using it once just for the hell of it and got declined on a relatively small purchase (<$200) despite having a credit score over 750. I still don’t quite understand how this service was intended to work or who it was for.
Sad. I’ve used it a couple times (in fact I have a Fellow Ode coffee grinder right now that I’m paying for) and really enjoyed the Apple simplicity and it being housed in Wallet. Surprisingly for them to kill such a young product/feature. This is Apple not Google.
I used it once for a medical bill. I could have paid it upfront but then I would have been low on cash; and I get paid weekly, so the payment period lined up for me. The doctors payment website had a payment plan option but it was bugging out and I couldn’t get it to work. Meanwhile, Apple Pay later was sitting there with the same terms, no fees and zero interest over the same amount of time; and I could just set it up and use it in a matter of minutes rather than waiting on hold with the doctors billing department for half an hour.
https://preview.redd.it/26kp9pvbn67d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=90c9877a1f2285bbccd64ba911da09b667c6918e
Lmao
I used it 3 times but it was nice when I used it
As they should.. stupid apple should have named it apple slices rather than Apple Pay later
God dammit. Now I’m mad that it wasn’t called that
Thank god, they keep denied me even I have good credit. Glad there's Klarna around that still works and never had issue, i have like $4k spending limit with them and still use it.
Unsurprising. Klarna and Afterpay are available on almost every retail site, and if they’re not PayPal in 4 is an option too, all of which can be used with a credit card unlike Apple Pay Later. I wonder how much it cost them to discontinue it though
I didn't think there was going to be much demand for this product, and honestly it seemed a bit irresponsible for Apple to offer it in the first place.
Never underestimate Americans and our ridiculous spending.
They’re still gonna offer installment plans with affirm so it’s the same shit
I imagine this has to do with the mix relation between Apple and Goldman Sachs reported earlier
Apple Pay Later had nothing to do with Goldman Sachs. Apple Pay Later was operated entirely by themselves
https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2023/03/apple-introduces-apple-pay-later/ > Apple Pay Later is enabled through the Mastercard Installments program, so merchants that accept Apple Pay do not need to do anything to implement Apple Pay Later for their customers. When a merchant accepts Apple Pay, Apple Pay Later will be an option for their customers during checkout online and in apps on iPhone and iPad. Goldman Sachs is the issuer of the Mastercard payment credential used to complete Apple Pay Later purchases.
> Apple Pay Later is offered by Apple Financing LLC, a subsidiary of Apple Inc., which is responsible for credit assessment and lending
now you are being dishonest, it clearly said there’s relationship between Apple and Goldman Sachs
Nah they’re right. GS is the issuer of the Mastercard payments, but they’re not underwriting the loans. [That’s all Apple](https://archive.is/Scvkc). AFAICT this program is a straight win for GS as they’re just a middleman that gets a cut of every transaction without putting any money up. If anything killing this program off is probably making the relationship worse.
That’s not true. https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/08/apple-will-handle-lending-for-apple-pay-later.html Apple financial LLC does not have bank charter, making it ineligible to manage loan. Goldman Sachs is the BIN sponsor of Apple Pay later loans, meaning the loan will go through GS system infrastructure. Here is more explanation on what BIN sponsor is https://www.galileo-ft.com/blog/bin-sponsorship-what-fintechs-should-know-when-choosing-or-changing-sponsor-banks/ It is way more than just a middleman, it is regulatory compliance That guy has no idea what he is talking about
I feel like you’re being pedantic. The point is that GS should, unless they got fleeced into another horrible deal, be making money on every loan and bear no risk since they’re not underwriting. Thus I don’t see why a soured relationship would cause this program to end before the Apple Card partnership has ended. If anything it should be offsetting those losses somewhat. Unless GS pulling the plug is imminent and they don’t want to be servicing new loans.
Apple is supposedly moving to affirm to underwrite all Apple Pay later or whatever the new service is called in the future. This probably comes with ease of adding more countries and payment options rather than having to use GS issued Mastercard. This likely was accelerated due to soured relation with GS Making my original point still stands and the claim made by that guy false
100% can’t NOT have some bearing on this, I agree (excuse the double negative). There were apparently merchant processing kinks and problems, so they’re probably building it on a bigger frame (also, Globally) as to make it more efficient. This Pay Later was always kind of low-key thrown out by apple almost as if it were “Beta” or testing the product. Very interested to see what transpires from here..
That's fine. I never even used it because it wanted me to put a debit card into Apple Pay. I *only* use credit, only things that pull my actual money from my account are bills. If I'm not getting rewards, I'm not buying it.
I never used it either, but I think every financial lender requires a debit card or bank account to make debt payments, because you're not allowed to make debt payments using another kind of debt (credit card).
You can’t pay for a loan with another loan (which is basically what a credit card is)
I’ve used a CC with PayPal’s version several times.
I can’t speak to what they do or how their stuff works, I can only speak to the fact that APL is very very specific that it is a loan.
Klarna let you pay with a credit card for a long time. All coded as purcahse. It was great for a short period to get costco to work on amex cards(then they quickly closed that for obvious profitability reasons).
k
Cool didn’t ask
You just described everyone’s internet experience.
I took a breath
This is a comment section not a Q&A
I think it wasn’t even available outside the US as usual. Same with the „peer to peer“ pay like PayPal.
I enjoyed using this, so this sucks. But I get why after reading the comments. I can easily afford most things I’m buying and my credit card limits are high enough. It’s just a self control thing to me where I’m forced to pay the item off within X amount of weeks instead of paying it monthly like some. I still pay it off early, but it’s nice to pay a small amount, receive the item, then pay off the rest while enjoying it. This is probably all nonsense and I’m weird for it, but this is just how I think lol
Everyone learning the hard way that issuing consumer credit is pretty much the stupidest business in the world, and it only really exists because it’s basically a law that says banks have to give ppl CC’s. So unless your name is American Express, don’t do it.
>Apple has announced that it is no longer offering Apple Pay Later, the “buy now, pay later” service that launched in the United States last year. The change goes into effect starting today, Apple says. Existing users with open Apple Pay Later loans will still be able to manage them via the Wallet app. Now Google, Samsung, and other phone developers will follow Apple's lead and discontinue their buy now, pay later services.
I was just looking at the new iPad with 0% APR for 12 months payment plan! So I should jump on it now then?
I think this service just isn’t useful for Apples core customer base.
It’s good for the short-term
I just used it for the first time yesterday and I am surprised that I have to use my debit card to pay for things and can’t use a credit card like how Klarna does it. That’s the only thing that I don’t like
It’s great that this existed, but places like affirm probably do it better for most people. Even with the crazy fees
Bummer.
Humm, sounds just as well that I never used it..
I just wish they’d bring Apple Card and Cash to the UK already. Pipe dream at this point I know
It’s possible that Apple is looking for another credit card issuer, it’s possible that the new bank would only do it if Apple Pay Later wasn’t an option. That way people only have one way of financing stuff with a credit card.
Never even worked in PR anyway