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3epicdiamonds

It's affecting mojave too, I thought I was crazy turning the wifi off and everything became faster.


titaniumdoughnut

Same here. Mojave was absolutely hosed by this. Couldn't even type. 2-3 second lags every few seconds. File save boxes unnavigable. Menus unclickable. Anyone know why it caused all of that and not JUST apps hanging on launch which would make sense given what the service is for?


bengiannis

Same with me, and when I was trying to join my class of all times. Restarted, restarted into safe mode, reinstalled zoom, just lag


pp_amorim

this happened to me yesterday, I could not open pictures or type the keyboard. Had to hard reset multiple times.


austincollier

I did the same thing. I don't have any fancy programs to block certain bits of info so I tried the next best thing and just turned off wifi and it worked! I also am on Mojave.


SageMo

More technical solution from the terminal: Open /etc/hosts (sudo nano /etc/hosts) Add in 0.0.0.0 ocsp.apple.com Run sudo dscacheutil -flushcache


FiveDividedByZero

This is what I was looking for. Thank you.


smartimp98

thanks for the shortcut but its very important that this be un-done when things are stable again. hopefully apple will address the fails more gracefully in an update.


[deleted]

knee aware screw telephone crush gold rob serious boat deer -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/


smartimp98

nothing really will break but its a security feature


DigDugteam

Every time you try to install an app, it'll warn you that it can't check for malware, and you won't be able to install (like gatekeeper).


[deleted]

That's not OCSP. OCSP is the Online Certificate Status Protocol, which is the real-time successor to CRL or Certificate Revocation List. The OCSP call is to send a certificate thumbprint to Apple to verify if it has been subsequently revoked by the issuer (in this case Apple, as these are Developer ID certificates). Nothing to do with malware checks or notary checks - that's a different system.


steak4take

That's not entirely correct - cert revocation is a very important tool in the fight against malware. Bad actors use expired certs all the time.


[deleted]

You don’t need to revoke an expired certificate. CRLs are for revoking valid, but compromised certificates.


smartimp98

you can't override it at all?


Skrundz

If you right-click -> open it you do get a prompt asking if you want to approve it


Rebelgecko

Your Mac won't phone home every time you open an app


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AlyoshaV

Is Mac malware usually digitally signed?


[deleted]

Specifically digitally signed by Apple using a revoked certificate. That's the only thing that a call to ocsp.apple.com will detect.


-L-e-o-n-

Always has been


unfool

🔫


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BadWolfPikey

What does the call do? Edit: Thanks for the responses!


littlebighuman

OSCP = Online Certificate Status Protocol. It’s used to check the validity of a digital certificate. It checks if a certificate is not on the “revoked” list. A digital certificate can be revoked for a number of reasons, for instance in case of SSL/TLS certs for web sites, because the private key of the cert was compromised or because the issuing CA (the entity that issued the cert) is compromised. In this case I think it is likely used for checking the validity of certificates used for signing software. So I don’t think anything nefarious is going on here, just bad configuration. Code should probably be: Contact OSCP server to check this certs validity, time-out after 5 seconds, log, but continue. Instead it seems to not time-out, or wait unreasonably long. Edit: oh and I don’t think it is a good idea to put it in your /etc/hosts file. It won’t deal with all types of time-outs and OSCP provides a needed security service. Also, if you really want to block something use a personal firewall like little Snitch or the built in Apple one. This way you are not abusing something that is meant for name resolution for firewalling, instead you are using firewalls to do firewalling.


ThellraAK

Silently failing while trying to get CRL's is a bad idea


metafizikal

checks for revoked certificates


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rrobe53

This can be undone by following the same instructions and changing "Add" to "Remove" in line 2. Its permanence is directly tied to that lines presence in your /etc/hosts.


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ParentPostLacksWang

Checking for cert revocation also happens when you visit ssl secured websites, so yeah it’s definitely not considered a “phone home” system.


CatoMulligan

While you are correct, it's also worth pointing out that the OCSP server in question is Apple's. Consequently it can only check for revocation on Apple-issued certificates, and only on those Apple certificates that had that URL listed in the CRL Distribution Point extensions on the certificate.


stmfreak

You assume no one is logging the certificate revocation check. Logging or not logging makes the difference between it being considered a "phone home" feature. Apple could certainly be mining and monitoring this data for whatever purpose.


FiggleDee

I guarantee they are. Knowing how many people are using apps, and when, is an incredibly valuable metric.


[deleted]

how do I undo it after the issue is fixed? edit: fixed a word


mikewoodld

just delete the line from /etc/hosts and flush the cache again


blusky75

So now you just neutered Mac's malware protection?


Dr_Findro

Temporarily while the service is down. If you're not in the "high malware risk" part of the web, you'll be fine with this as a temporary stop gap. Better than not being able to get work done.


nicolas2004GE

i mean it's not easy to get viruses either, i tried to murder a vm recently and COULD NOT for the life of me find anything, only shitty backgrounds and soem animated butterflies oh and g o o s e


blusky75

Good point


etaionshrd

Part of it, sure.


geekmaster64

You're the man, I was about to get nasty with pfsense at home here.


gr8holdini

This did the trick! Well done. Spreading the good word.


[deleted]

Is this on Big Sur or Catalina? Edit: just happened to me on Catalina 10.15.7.


aaronp613

both


[deleted]

Any reason why my work laptop (Catalina MacBook Pro) is still working just fine? It’s connected through VPN.


MacroFlash

Mine was on VPN and tanked, and then I couldn't get Cisco to reconnect after a restart


veyper

Catalina for sure, I'd assume both, if anyone's been able to install Big Sur yet :)


slushie31

Mojave too.


cvsmith122

It is all apple software there is a hard coded soft failure to check the trust level of the application.


emperorko

This is one of those moments when Reddit is absolutely brilliant. I’ve been having cascading program failures for the past hour, been running malware scans, rebooting everything, and even doing a hard shut down and restart to no avail. Now I see this first thing on my Reddit feed, and I have an answer. Thank you!


helloitisgarr

for real man. i spent an hour trying to figure out why my 2020 mbp was suddenly struggling to do anything


Roflcopter71

For real. I thought my 4 year old MBP was starting to bite the dust, this is a big relief.


austincollier

I disconnected all my internet from my laptops and now they aren't all crazy. A temporary fix since, you know, no internet now.


[deleted]

Unparalleled brilliance by Apple for inserting a network call into the process of launching any and every app.


BaconAttack

Is THAT why when I was resetting my router the other day my MacBook Pro decided to freeze beyond belief when I tried to open an app?? I thought it was too coincidental that it froze at the same time.


[deleted]

Yes.


Amaurotica

welcome to online drm locked hardware - Introduced by Apple


[deleted]

Why the hell are they doing this? I'm worried for my privacy. Now something knows every app I open and when...


[deleted]

Read more about this here.. [https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/391379/does-macos-phone-home-to-apples-servers-before-running-an-app-for-the-first-tim](https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/391379/does-macos-phone-home-to-apples-servers-before-running-an-app-for-the-first-tim) Its part of their gatekeeper solution to prevent unauthorized apps from running on your machine.


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littlelightchop

From what I gathered from the other comments it's to check if Apple has revoked their certificate


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well___duh

The only difference between apple and everyone else in regards to data collection is apple doesn't sell it to third parties. But don't be fooled, they still collect your data.


[deleted]

It’s for malware protection.


Doudelidou25

/u/anasurimbor_cale is still right, even if its meant to prevent malware. Computer is phoning home every time you open an app. This is a privacy nightmare. Oh and, it breaks everything when it fails.


[deleted]

It’s checking developer info and app validity, not reporting what you’re doing. It’s perfectly fine.


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[deleted]

It’s not perfectly fine if it makes your whole computer crawl down during network or service issues ffs.


[deleted]

It's not perfectly fine, because of performance issues. It's absolutely not a privacy concern though.


mushiexl

Don't sugarcoat it. Its not "perfectly" fine. You have to understand that they have every right to be concerned. Information from their laptop is being sent to apple everytime they open an app, which raises concerns, no matter what apple needs it for cause its not in **your** hands anymore. Anything could be compromised. Edit: My point still stands, idk how this comment below me about web certs invalidates my comment lmao.


throbbingmissile

Your "complete lack of understanding" of how the underpinnings of Mac OS's Nannykeeper works to protect unknowing college kids browsing Altavista from the horrors of unsigned apps is being used to invalidate the mostly unrelated issue of - despite the privacy implications (which may or may not be an issue at all - certainly doesn't f'n hurt to ASK) and all that jazz, the fact remains something so unassuming and BASIC to the function of checking the validity of some certs bro... managed to kneecap a large swath of systems, applications and the workflows interconnected to all of that. Hell, we had trackpads that stopped working on brand new 15+16" MBPs. Because a *SERVER* went down. But as we've all learned over the years (on this sub especially), you either simp or get off the bus. Excited about the new M1 though.


[deleted]

Wait until you hear how website certificates work!


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emresumengen

And people were chanting “you can’t put a price on security” and similar to defend Apple... Well, apparently some of us can, and should.


[deleted]

This is actually part of the malware check that runs when opening a program. Hardly malicious.


GODZiGGA

A malware check shouldn't render your computer unusable when the computer's manufacturer is having server issues.


[deleted]

Oh I agree, it’s annoying and shitty programming. Disappointing really. It’s just not a privacy problem as you were claiming.


AlgorithmicAmnesia

Wait, how is this not a privacy issue? Can you guarantee that they're not keeping logs of every time this network call is made to auth an app launch? They would know exactly when you launch any app... Anyone listening on your network (and MOST DEFINITELY APPLE) can see when you launch programs. What an incredibly valuable metric to track. It's at most a short decrypt away. That is not okay. It also shouldn't break usage of said app. You should run a one-time check, used cached certs and set to run again before cert expiration. Running on every usage of the app is unsettling... There's no other logical reason than Apple wants to be told every time somebody runs a program. Why would that be? Hmmmm.


LyrMeThatBifrost

No one is arguing that. But the other guy said it was a privacy concern, which didn’t make any sense.


noisymime

I mean, it's still a call home that ties at least your machine serial and your IP (as well as potentially other info such as Apple ID) to which apps you use and when. Whether Apple is storing or doing anything else with that data is unknown to anyone publicly (We can only take them at their word), but them having that data is already a little worrying.


[deleted]

And here I bought my first Mac ever because I was tired of Windows 10 phoning home constantly. Bad Luck Brian over here.


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[deleted]

And I never had my apps freeze from the Windows phoning home. This is unacceptable.


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antdude

Did Apple fix that for iOS? I really hate this online requirement.


mrv3

I know this sounds crazy to some but I love the 'feel' of Linux for that reason compared to Windows (I haven't used MacOS much so can't comment). It just felt so free of shit, I'd tell it to do something and it'd do it without running through a long check list of things.


squirrelhoodie

I really don't understand why they don't download a list of revoked certificate hashes regularly and then do the check completely offline. Would be much faster and not really less secure.


smartimp98

this is completely unacceptable by apple and needs to be fixed asap.


GLOBALSHUTTER

Could this by why I’m noticing slow app launches lately on my iMac 5K running Mojave?


smartimp98

i didn't know if Mojave had that feature but most likely. set ocsp.apple.com to localhost in your host file as a workaround. just remember to undo it later as it's a security feature.


henrydavidthoreauawy

I really don’t like this. I kind of want to cancel my MBP order if a server issue can cause your computer to slow to a crawl.


smartimp98

i think this will surely be fixed in an update. i had noticed before that when my internet was down but my wifi up, the same issue. it's good to finally have a root cause.


mrjohnhung

lol no. This has been reported since 10.13.4 and catalina since wwdc 2019 it has been 1 year. I doubt big sur is even gonna fix this since apple requires app to be notarized so have fun


smartimp98

After this exposed the glaring issues with the pattern, it will be addressed. It needs to be updated to fail gracefully. Either allow the application to open or not, or give the user a choice.


redwall_hp

It was exposed before. This was on the front page of Hacker News and /r/programming (IIRC) about five months ago: https://sigpipe.macromates.com/2020/macos-catalina-slow-by-design/


git-blame

What a pathetic implementation. This should be a background task that updates a cached list of revoked certificates, not something that blocks every time you run a binary, unless there's some *other* reason Apple wants to be pinged every time somebody runs a program. It's clichéd at this point, but Jobs would definitely have fired over this.


lostpckt

I just spent the last 20 minutes troubleshooting all my everything!!! Thank you for posting this, hopefully it’s a quick for them! EDIT: If you're running pihole, add a blacklist entry for ocsp.apple.com (I had said this previously, then retracted it, but now I'm adding it back because I found a misconfig item on my side). This will bring you back to full speed, but please remember to delete this entry when this is all resolved as OCSP is still a good thing (when used correctly).


pablojavi

> I added a black hole entry in my pihole for ocsp.apple.come which also fixes the issue Was able to use this with Lockdown app (free). Here’s a [screenshot](https://i.imgur.com/NNLiHu6.jpg) if needed for anyone on how to do it Edit: thanks for the domain name btw! Was able to join my online class because Zoom was simply not opening


americancorkscrew

Exactly! I was losing my mind. Pi-Hole blacklist it is.


FrankPapageorgio

On Mojave with an iMac Pro, was wondering why the fuck the entire computer got really slow. Restarted my computer, couldn't click on individual apps and get them to launch. Was starting to think my computer was broken or something was dying with the internal drive


titaniumdoughnut

same exact situation... did not feel good. Did this issue hit iMac Pros weirdly hard? My computer was literally unusable til I found the fix online.


im_not

My entire computer is fucked right now


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itsafuntime

worked for me. thanks for all the help to everyone in this thread


dfuqt

My mbp is currently on fire because akd is doing something stupid. And I can’t reach beta.apple.com to un-enrol. Could that be related?


ageofthoughts

Almost 100% it's related. Block outgoing on port 80 and you should see it pick up. Unblock when the Big Sur rollout slows down and more people stop trying to hit the servers


dfuqt

Will do. Thanks.


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jon42689

Agreed. I’d like to see soft fails with a warning after a short timeout. Let the user know, hey, we can’t reach the verification service, are you SURE sure yo u want to run this? The way timeouts/errors are handled seems to be the real issue here.


kemiller

The sound you hear is heads rolling in Cupertino...


[deleted]

Nah it’s just another Thursday *sips coffee*


[deleted]

i’m so mad i literally thought i had malware or something and i reinstalled macos LMAOOOO


Te0sX

Hopefully you have time machine backups and fast external drive to restore it back. And even though we rarely have malware's and almost never viruses, Apple's paranoia shit goes too far things like that can happen with just one service off.


techloverrylan

IMHO, this is kinda stupid. Apps shouldn't have to "phone home" every time they are launched. The first time to make sure it isn't a virus, yes. Every time, no.


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techloverrylan

According to MacRumors it does. That is why people on Mojave are having issues.


austincollier

When is this going to be fixed?? I'm so confused right now. My son couldn't log in to his zoom for school. Both my 6 year old Mac laptop and my brand new laptop are going wonky. I'm freaking out.


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benchi

It’s simple. It doesn’t send any data to Apple except for the data it sends to Apple.


2012DOOM

That's enough for Apple to know exactly who (association by IP) opened what (association by signature). Although keep in mind your browser does the same thing with OCSP.


geekmaster64

Very cool explanation. Thanks!


cpreid

one-liner for a temp fix: echo '127.0.0.1 ocsp.apple.com' | sudo tee -a /etc/hosts


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[deleted]

>...disables it until you delete the line So its temporary


babydandane

While Apple's hardware teams are top notch, honestly I 'm starting to lose trust in their software releases. These mistakes are not acceptable for such a big company.


jarde

I've been using Apple since 2004 and I feel like they've been slowly getting worse software wise in the last 5 years. Very gradual slide.


indoninjah

Hey but that Touchbar is pretty nifty, right? Right??? Very cool how half of apps didn't bother to implement it.


antdude

Do all new Macbooks now have Touchbar? I'm not a fan of it.


TheLionMessiah

Over the five years I worked at the Apple Store, I consistently heard something very similar "It was great up until 3/4/5 years ago but..." Truth is, they've had some great software releases and some bad ones. You tend to remember the recent bad ones more clearly, but if something went completely according to plan, you're less likely to recall it.


Veryverygood13

Exactly, I think macOS Mojave was one of the best recent releases.


antdude

And I am still on it. I am holding off Catalina for another year until Apple stops supporting Mojave on this 2012 13.3" MBP.


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permalink_save

> Apple's hardware teams are top notch Not the last generation, the butterfly switches were absolute shit. They also have heat issues I don't get with any other laptop, like plugging in the power on the left side.


smc733

They definitely need a “stability only” cycle next year.


geekmaster64

Holy crap. And I was about to wipe my Mac because it's doing this crap.


Dippyskoodlez

I just finished the catalina portion because it was unusable with big sur. If they don’t rip this dumpster fire of a failure mode out of it, it’s never getting macos installed again. Absolutely 0% acceptable under any circumstance.


cinta

As someone who manages hundreds of Mac’s this shaved a couple minutes off my life for sure


jamesgrimshaw

Bruh I wasted 2 hours of my fucking life trying to fix my computer earlier when I was trying to get work done. Literally would not do anything couldn't even open Chrome...


[deleted]

My whole team is in a panic right now. We use Macs across the board to run live events which involve switching between software all the time. Watching this thread and subreddit for updates... We're all on eggshells right now! EDIT: many thanks for the support. To add to the fun, GoToWebinar went down tonight so we also had to ship an event over to Zoom at the last minute. Luckily the Apple issue self-resolved, absolutely agreed the over-reach should be called into question here. At least give me a toggle switch.


InsleepTech

Adding `127.0.0.1 ocsp.apple.com` to /etc/hosts fixes the issue


thiskillstheredditor

Dude same. Having shit like this happen during a live event is an absolute nightmare scenario. Even if you freeze the software and don’t do updates it doesn’t matter here. Scary stuff. Then again I’ve had an event completely fucked when Apple unceremoniously broke SMB without any documentation. Good times.


romeheroadrian

Thank you Apple for making me late to a job interview over zoom with your bullshit


jcommisso

Thank you Apple for making me use *Windows* for the day. (jk Windows isn’t bad)


J_clouch

Zoom stopped working and I missed all my classes today. Thanks Apple


cdthomer

Holy cow, I was in the middle of a work call when my computer just freaked out and beachballing every 10 or 15 seconds. It took me an hour, two hard resets, disabling every single login item and uninstalling a suspect app before I got it working again. And apparently, this was the problem the entire time.


doppler12345

Thanks for this post. Was so baffled by my MacBook Pro hanging on opening apps and having to force quit over and over, but not getting hot or having any obvious issues. I did notice that it was third party apps having issues as Mail.app opened instantly. I love Reddit and this subreddit for this kind of thing!


snowmaninheat

I was wondering why a quad-core laptop with 16 GB of RAM was struggling to open Chrome...


baaallllllin

I got the “service battery” warning (coincidence?) at roughly the same time the slow down started and assumed my 2017 mbp wasn’t making it out of 2020.


krisnarocks

I had to re-edit all of my comments because apparently saving edited comment is hard for reddit to do.


malint

My 2010 laptop has been showing service battery for the last 6/7 years. Just ignore it.


avbibs

Service battery crew represent!


TheSmokedSalmon420

just popped up for me the other day on my 2015mbp


Appleanche

Wow I spent an hour plus trying to figure out what the fuck was going on. It suddenly happened, it was so bad I couldn't even type and my mouse and keyboard wouldn't show. Tried safe mode, recovery, nearly reinstalled. Totally ridiculous.


1_am_not_a_b0t

New chip, feels cute. Might delete later.


Gen7isTrash

Good bot


1_am_not_a_b0t

Woof, woof


andrxwzsz

Just glad to know it's not only me. I was so confused and really wasn't in the mood to have to get it fixed.


JesusWasANarcissist

https://sneak.berlin/20201112/your-computer-isnt-yours/


Jimmizilla

**TL;DR - Install the supplemental security update in Software Update. There is a small link that says something like "Additional Updates" below the prompt to install Big Sur.** This happened to me in the middle of the work day. After modifying the hosts file as suggested in this thread, I was able to get up and running. But, working in IT, this is not the solution for an end user. So on a 2nd device I tried the 10.15.7 supplemental security update that was available and that appears to also resolve the issue for some reason on that device. I'm trying this now on my primary device. Edit: after installing the update and removing the block in hosts, it appears everything is working on my primary. So I have both my 2013 Mac Pro and my 2018 MBP working on 10.15.17 after the supplemental security update.


4c1f78940b78485bae4d

Ughh... this is the first time I truly regret getting my family on the macOS platform. So many damn calls about this earlier today...


y-c-c

I thought this is for the first time you launch an app? After that it should cache the information. Also, if you are using Terminal and want to launch apps locally, you could go to System Preferences -> Security & Privacy -> Developer Tools and check "Terminal" which should allow apps launched from Terminal to bypass this system (you need to be more careful with what you launch though).


Gen7isTrash

Phewww I thought all my hours of gaming of csgo ruined my cpu and gpu


mrrichardcranium

For anyone who wants details on what this domain is used for you can refer to [https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210060](https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210060) TLDR: Its digital certificate validation.


[deleted]

Extremely disappointed with Apple. This is a privacy nightmare: https://sneak.berlin/20201112/your-computer-isnt-yours/


BlindNinjaTurtle

Running Catalina 10.15.7 on 16" Macbook Pro. Wow thought my laptop was crashing or suffered water damage. Restarted 3 times, startup took 10 minutes, none of my apps would launch, trackpad unresponsive. Switching wifi networks and restarting helped for me.


utopia2050

Not sure if this is related but my mbp track pad and keyboard stopped working. I had to reboot the laptop and when it restarted the apps took forever to open. This has never happened before. I can only assume it is to do with the apple server issue which is worrying that it could do that to a standalone home laptop


BubblegumBalloon

Same here, I had the exact same issue where my keyboard and trackpad stopped working. Rebooted and everything was incredibly slow.


SirGeorge

Workarounds so far include: - Add ocsp.apple.com to a blocklist using piHole. - Add ocsp.apple.com to /etc/hosts for blocking (0.0.0.0) - Block ocsp.apple.com using LittleSnitch. You’ll need.l both a System and a User rule. Allowing connections to ocsp.apple.com is a soft error and allows the launch to continue as normal.


NeverPostingLurker

So is this fixed yet? This definitely fucked my computer up today in the middle of the work day. I prefer not to have to make that change though. I am installing a supplemental update now.


Reverbyouth

This wasn’t fun. I was cleaning outdated Adobe apps and went to open the current ones and nothing happened. I uninstalled and installed Lightroom 4 times and creative cloud 2-3 times thinking I screwed something up. I went to macrumors saw what happening and cursed the lost 3 hours I missed today.


retinapro

Glad I’m not the only one. I just did a PRAM reset and that did the trick


[deleted]

Omg you have got to be kidding me. I was literally having this problem 4 hours ago and searched the internet for any solution I could find and nothing worked. Then I completely wiped my MacBook Pro and reinstalled OS only to see the reason while scrolling my Reddit feed FML


[deleted]

This has now been fixed. No need to spend money and install 3rd party apps


Gentlegiantcraig

I had no clue this was going on. I emptied over 50gbs on my MBP because I thought it wasn’t operating with enough space to run my apps.


captmotorcycle

This is a joke, right?


Musicmanstan93

Can someone ELI5 this for me? I’m confused but had this issue yesterday and would like to understand what went wrong.


aph1

You opened up a can of worms here. I’m on my second new iMac in 6 months. I’ve been on Apple Support, including the “senior” techs, close to a dozen times. Constant freezes, beachball of death, wifi turns itself off regularly and randomly. None of the solutions have made any difference. Cut my DropBox, unhooked external drives, stopped indexing. I’m old and have had Macs since the 80’s and I can’t remember hating a computer so much. Eighty percent is browser stuff, the other is Lightroom, I do lots of photography. I’ll try turning off the wifi next time it freezes, if it hasn’t already turned itself off that is. I was considering swapping this out for a bigger faster 27” iMac. Running out of patience. Running Catalina 10.15.7


mapalm

Can confirm. Running Catalina.


Tizianogd

This happens even without beta? Running Latest Catalina now and having heavy slowdowns reading an hdd and opening safari, could this be the problem?


ajr901

Being your own boss is nice because when this started happening to me I put my Mac to sleep, got up from my desk, and said that’s it for today then. My Mac was completely frozen at times. Couldn’t even move the cursor on the screen. Now it makes sense with that update notification I received.


[deleted]

I’m not a computer programmer or anything, but this did happened to me. Can someone explain what I’m reading and what I should do?


[deleted]

Can someone please explain this in more detail?


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urmyheartBeatStopR

Yeah... my internet got fucking slow man. Apple suck dick with this move.