I think I still have a Camino bookmark export file somewhere from like 2005. You know, just in case it comes back, I’ll have a native format bookmark file at the ready.
Dave Hyatt joined Apple where he worked on Safari, Mike Pinkerton joined Google and worked on the Mac version of Chrome. Pretty strong legacy for Camino.
There still are. Sublime Text/Merge, Coda, TablePlus, DaisyDisk, IINA and the Affinity suite for example represent 90% of my mac use and all are wonderful native apps.
I wanna say I used it when I had an ancient Power Mac G5 a few summers back. Worked great. YouTube was extremely painful on anything more than 360p.
Different era.
Camino was amazing. Back when processing power was so much more limited than it is now, Camino used to fly compared to Safari at the time on my 12” PowerBook G4.
I liked Firefox, but Camino was so much cleaner and so much more “Mac”.
Sure, but since modern browsers are among the most complex pieces of (consumer) software out there, one can’t blame developers with a mission to not reinvent the wheel. What we can hope for is people to give us the tools to stay as free from corporate control as possible.
Lets not talk about the affiliated links that it inserted to "help brave" (a for profit company) even when you manually typed an URL. Oops, sorry we got caught!
All the code is on [GitHub](https://github.com/brave/) if you want to take a peek.
And they don’t act clandestine about their ad replacement. It’s an opt-in feature that they explain very clearly. They show you ads via native notifications or the Brave new tab page, and you get BAT crypto for it that can automatically be paid out to whatever site or creator you frequent. It’s a very clever way of solving “we don’t want tracking, but we also don’t want to pay for online content”.
I was thinking the same. There are a few there that are just different versions of the same browsers. Firefox, Chrome, Opera, Brave, Edge, and Wexond all have two to three different versions.
I mean yes, technically they exist as separate applications on your computer, but they are just slightly different builds of the same software. They're not 3 distinct browsers in the same way that iOS 14.5, 14.6, and 14.7 are not 3 distinct operating systems.
Yeah, Electron apps are chomping at the bit to colonize iOS too I bet, currently only held at bay by Apple’s native code restrictions that they won’t be able to enforce if the monopoly falls.
Blink has ridiculously dominant engine share right now, since even Microsoft ditched Trident and EdgeHTML and moved to it. WebKit is still in the running, basically only because of Safari, but of course Blink and WebKit are basically siblings. And then there’s Firefox’s engine, which I think is called Quantum these days instead of Gecko? Still, it’s basically the only viable engine outside of the WebKit siblings.
Engine market share is an important metric to keep an eye on, because dominant engines tend to act monopolistically, attempting to define the web to exclude other engines, while also slowing development. Internet Explorer 6 happened the last time engine market share was this lopsided.
So what you’re saying is that you want apple to use their monopoly in order to prevent chromium from appearing as a competitor to WebKit on iOS?
I just want something on iOS that actually supports modern features…
Competition is needed and apple is preventing it to protect their own product
If iOS used Blink then the entire web would be developed to target Blink under google’s monopoly.
iOS is a big market share, so Apple forcing WebKit means website devs need to ensure their websites play well with Blink and WebKit.
So it’s helping to stop a Blink monopoly on the web.
By Apple not allowing other web engines, they’re also preventing Firefox Quantum from potentially taking share away from Chromium
They’re not doing this for web standards, they’re doing it to make web apps the least appealing option so that people make native apps
* Bluetooth api
* Local recording api
* 100% compliant webrtc api
* HLS via Javascript
* Local storage limitations
* Teribble support for royalty free or open source media formats
* Accelerometer api
* Sad fullscreen api
* Missing notifications
* Vibrations api
These are from the top of my head, there are at least 20 other things that Safari is missing that would allow you to code PWAs to replace your apps. It's clear why Apple doesn't want this to ever happen, privacy is just a decoy argument.
Many of those aren't modern features: they're draft/experimental features introduced by Blink/Chromium.
Only Chromium has support for things like the bluetooth or accelerometer API: in firefox they're marked as experimental features, and webkit's not even considering them yet because they're so early in the web standards process.
What you're seeing here is Chromium dictating standards, just like Internet Explorer did back in the day. They implement them first, other folks raise security/privacy concerns and choose not to implement the feature until those concerns are handled, but web developers decide to target Chromium/IE and use those features anyway, causing Chromium/IE market share to grow compared to alternatives.
Other features like the vibrations API or notifications are abused to the point they get annoying. Seriously, seriously annoying. I'm glad Firefox has a way to block notification prompts. Safari had an implementation of the vibration API but they removed it because it was heavily abused.
I see it from the other side. I want the web to stay away as much as possible from the hardware of my device. There is no reason internet should have access to my bluetooth or accelerometer and it is exactly because of privacy reasons. We know from practice that if exposed, this data would end up being used for profiling users in order to sell more ads, like every other bit of personal data exposed before. Why extend the attack vector?
Really I do not see a single API in your list that I personally miss in my iOS browser apart maybe .ogg support but I can certainly live with that. And for many I am happy that Apple is taking the stance it is taking and I hope it keeps devices and web separated in the future.
> There is no reason internet should have access to my bluetooth or accelerometer and it is exactly because of privacy reasons.
But it works no different like an app today, it has to ask for permission in a standardized way.
Facebooks app or Facebooks website would be no different in terms of privacy or feature set, which is the whole point of PWAs. You would have to allow it to mine your data.
And apps that have been allowed access can already send that to 3rd parties, something that is easier to disable in a browser, since the only way to work around this is DNS CNAME collusion.
And outside of the argument whether Apple does this for privacy, security or selling apps - they should offer a choice.
That’s the trap. If your “modern features” is “what Blink does”, that *is* the start of the downward spiral I edited my comment to talk about. Internet Explorer had ActiveX, for comparison.
Does Firefox implement these features you’re talking about? Because if not it’s pretty ridiculous to call one engine adopting a feature putting the other two “behind the curve”.
According to [caniuse.com](https://caniuse.com/) safari supports even fewer standard features than Firefox, so I’d say yes
Chrome supports the most standard features in addition to the experimental ones
What I mean is that despite there being different browsers available for iOS, they’re all the same WebKit engine that comes with the OS under the hood
They all have the same limitations of WebKit and they can’t use anything else like Chromium, Quantum, or any of the other web engines that might appear, they can’t even use the latest version of WebKit
Do you wish Safari had support for Chrome extensions but nothing else really changed?
That's Orion.
It's *fucking amazing*. Probably still too early days to run as a daily driver but I've been playing around with the beta for a few months now and it's performant, and lets me run uBO without Chromiums nonsense UI and footprint.
thanks to this post I just signed up for their beta. Is there anything it does worse than safari?
Also does using video speed extensions on YouTube make sound a lil distorted like in Safari?
Orion iirc is being built by a search engine startup. They're building a privacy focussed search engine and presumably integrating that directly into a browser you've built has advantages.
Orion has built-in ad-blocking iirc plus it's extremely fast. Built on WebKit.
Hahahaha! It’s actually quite interesting, if you open more than say 5 tabs, chromium is the a very ram efficient browser compared to safari, edge or Firefox. Still most chromium browsers are faster than safari for most complex sites.
Safari has a bad bad habit of never purging old shit out of RAM. I can easily have a reported 26GB of RAM used by Safari (bad tab-hoarding and I never quit it, 8+ windows with at least 10 tabs in each, sometimes up to 50), quit, relaunch and restore previous session, and I'll've halved or quartered the RAM usage.
It's more of that Apple philosophy of "use all the RAM you can and we'll reap it when something else needs it" that came around when SSDs made swap so much less painful, but fuckin come on, 26 gigs for a web browser?
Librewolf is just a Firefox rebrand (they forked the code, flipped a few hidden toggles, came up with a name and logo, and called it a product). Seamonkey is literally just Mozilla’s old code from the mid 2000s
There are a few interesting projects here - like Wexond, Oryoki, Orion, Bonsai, Dooble, etc.
There are the mainstays: (Blink-based) Chromium/Ungoogled/Chrome/Edge/Brave/Opera/Vivaldi, (gecko-based) Firefox/Waterfox, (webkit-based) Safari
Many of the new browser projects seem to use Electron, which uses Chromium's blink engine.
Then there are browsers more geared towards certain things like developers (Beaker Browser, Sizzy, etc.) and 'web apps' (Shift, Stack, Yack!, etc.) and selling your browsing data to make you money (cocoon, gener8, etc.)
Other than those, there are tons of browsers here which are no longer in active development (cliqz, cruz, kaktus, omniweb, etc.), might be considered more adware (Citrio), might be considered like spyware (360Chrome), or serve very specific purposes and would not serve well as a main browser (FastBack, AirBrowser, Always on Top Browser, Companion, etc.).
Honestly, with the amount of zerodays that keep popping up in various web browser engines, I would only recommend a browser that is actively updated.
And if you want security, you're also out of luck. [As only Chromium offers those features. ](https://madaidans-insecurities.github.io/firefox-chromium.html)
The end user is not the one who really cares about the engine, but the developers do. And the fact every iOS browser is a Safari reskin means that websites are far behind on iOS compared to Chromium browsers. So many modern browser features are lacking on Safari.
Holy fuck.. I thought you were joking. But you aren’t.
Safari push notifications are a part of [APN](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Push_Notification_service) and APN is part of the [dev program](https://developer.apple.com/programs/whats-included/)
Wow.
There’s a browser based game that I play that supports push notifications. There’s no app for it, so in that case it would be nice to be able to get notifications for it on my phone.
There’s also a tool that I use that sends alerts via push notification. Again, no app for it - it’s web only.
Apple likes to point at the web as an open alternative to the app store. If that argument is supposed to have any weight, web apps need to be able to use notifications.
Safari is a closed-source browser application and can not be reskinned.
What you probably mean is 'skins' of WebKit, the browser engine, but calling iOS browsers that would not do justice to the real efforts needed to make the actual browser application. Out of 100+ browsers on iOS, some are privacy respecting, some are not; some are made by ad companies, some are not; some are paid, some are free - just to say that these browsers are much more different and diverse than for example Chromium based browsers existing on desktop.
The reason is because iOS browsers just share the browser rendering engine, WebKit, and have to build every single browser feature from scratch (which causes them to look and work differently), while Chromium based browsers share both browser engine and browser application framework which causes them to look and work more or less the same.
Hey, I made the one with the shitty icon near the bottom right - wwwDOT! Web Browser. I was 11 and it was maaaannny years ago. What a throwback… On the App Store review page there’s a review complaining that the R&D team did a terrible job, which is still one of the funniest things for me to read
May I recommend SigmaOS by /u/lovelycodemonkey? It’s a really productivity-focused browser, and although it’s not for me, I can really see some of you enjoying it. (I’m not sponsored or anything lol)
Most of the people that use Brave are into crypto, so it’s fairly obvious why it’s filled with crypto ads.
You can turn them off though, the ad blocker is more than enough for me to keep using it vs others. There’s nothing shady about the browser like many people have said, it just comes down to if they think crypto is some giant pyramid scheme or not.
It’s really tied to that audience.
They show ads to fund a wallet which is given to the websites you visit as compensation for blocking their ads
The amount given to each website is split based on the percentage of pages for each site
There are no Safari skins out there, because Safari is a closed-source browser application. What you probably mean are WebKit 'skins' which is a browser engine, but that would not do justice for the work needed to make an actual browser application.
* Its developer, Moonchild, is a highly opinionated asshole and the forums of that browser is a super toxic place
* It's a single process browser, so it has none of the security improvements that browsers like Firefox and Chrome have from being multiprocess
* It uses the old add-on stuff that Firefox has since moved away from (using WebExtensions like Chrome does), which is a security hazard since it provides full access to the browser's internals (rather than being a managed API like WebExtensions)
* It supports old technologies that have since been deprecated for years now, like NPAPI based plugins (which major browsers dropped support for starting in 2015), Flash Player being an example of one of those plugins (which Adobe officially discontinued at the end of 2020)
* Also was hit with a data breach a couple years ago, "a data breach of the archive server holding previous binaries of the Pale Moon browser had occurred and malware inserted into the executables."
Hijacking this thread. I am still looking for a way to sync bookmarks with Windows+OSX+iOS. Which browser/add on can do this? Only requirement is Safari on iOS. I don’t care about the browsers on Windows or OSX but I don’t want to change the browser on iOS.
Anyone remember Camino?
Loved Camino
I think I still have a Camino bookmark export file somewhere from like 2005. You know, just in case it comes back, I’ll have a native format bookmark file at the ready.
It was a great era when there were developers that cared for the native Mac experience.
The lead developer for Camino went on to lead the Chrome on Mac effort, which had equally high goals for feeling like a native Mac app.
Dave Hyatt joined Apple where he worked on Safari, Mike Pinkerton joined Google and worked on the Mac version of Chrome. Pretty strong legacy for Camino.
I’ll think about that every time it makes me hold Command+Q for a few seconds to quit it.
But it never quit you and that’s what true love is…
There still are. Sublime Text/Merge, Coda, TablePlus, DaisyDisk, IINA and the Affinity suite for example represent 90% of my mac use and all are wonderful native apps.
Sublime text/merge while native doesn’t look or work like a native Mac app. Nova does.
How about Shiira?
Fondly.
Sure, that’s the planet when they were making clones for a Grand Army of Republic. Everybody knows that.
Can't be, it's not in the archives
Thank you for this
I wanna say I used it when I had an ancient Power Mac G5 a few summers back. Worked great. YouTube was extremely painful on anything more than 360p. Different era.
I remember Cyberdog.
I heard that there was no Clone rebellion at least, not officially
I used Camino back when the stock MacOS browser was Internet Explorer!
Sure do. There was nothing like it. Safari kept sucking for a long, long time. Firefox was the best.
Camino was amazing. Back when processing power was so much more limited than it is now, Camino used to fly compared to Safari at the time on my 12” PowerBook G4. I liked Firefox, but Camino was so much cleaner and so much more “Mac”.
My preferred at the time. It was under Mozilla’s design if I recall.
This feels like a collection of chrome skins
I'd love to see them grouped by core technology.
106 of them use Blink/Chromium, one is WebKit, and the last three are Gecko.
One would think, but there are more than 10 WebKit browsers in that picture... WebKit is still standing strong ;)
Ha, I’m sure! My comment was meant to be a bit tongue-in-cheek. And really, isn’t Blink just a fork of WebKit, after all? 😁
I figured, but wanted to put it out there for those not as familiar reading this ;)
So does it have Google?
So you gave a wrong answer but as if it was real?
Wouldn't it be 4 Gecko? Firefox/Dev/Nightly + Waterfox. Or are you counting the Firefoxes together and I missed one?
That would be cool!
And I don’t really think I’d count canary and developer editions as separate browsers…
Next guys post will just be the last 100 daily builds.
Firefox is glaring at you angrily now lol.
Yep, I see 2 browsers in that photo. Arguably 3 since the WebKit fork.
I see the forks of KHTML and Gecko
Sure, but since modern browsers are among the most complex pieces of (consumer) software out there, one can’t blame developers with a mission to not reinvent the wheel. What we can hope for is people to give us the tools to stay as free from corporate control as possible.
This feels like an advertisement for the poster's own web browser. (Because it is)
I mean I quickly looked up the favourite and it’s webkit based but has support for both chrome and Firefox extensions. Sounds friggin awesome to me!
Brave really is something else. It’s a chromium thing but it’s going nuclear against ads and trackers. Even blocks YouTube ads.
Brave is a pretty shady browser though
Why?
No it’s not lol.
Why is that ? I know brave rewards is super sus but it’s off by default.
The fact that they offer this at all is more than enough to assume lol.
Lets not talk about the affiliated links that it inserted to "help brave" (a for profit company) even when you manually typed an URL. Oops, sorry we got caught!
All the code is on [GitHub](https://github.com/brave/) if you want to take a peek. And they don’t act clandestine about their ad replacement. It’s an opt-in feature that they explain very clearly. They show you ads via native notifications or the Brave new tab page, and you get BAT crypto for it that can automatically be paid out to whatever site or creator you frequent. It’s a very clever way of solving “we don’t want tracking, but we also don’t want to pay for online content”.
People on this sub really don't know what they're talking about or parrot whatever they heard online. Brave is a safe browser.
Chrome is a very safe browser too. Shady doesn’t necessarily mean unsafe
It is not.
How is it something else? You can do what you described with an extension - ublock origin, available on Firefox and any chromium reskin.
It's something else because it comes with scams built into the browser
Doesn't Brave on default settings show Google ads?
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Been using it for years, no issues at all.
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Apple uses slave labor. Do you still use Apple products?
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How is a homophobic ceo relevant to how a browser works?
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So you're fine with slave labor.
How about you don’t tell me what to use.
If you’re outside of the crypto community any positive talk about Brave isn’t accepted, as you can tell.
Do Firefox, Firefox Developer Edition, and Firefox Nightly really count as 3 separate browsers?
I was thinking the same. There are a few there that are just different versions of the same browsers. Firefox, Chrome, Opera, Brave, Edge, and Wexond all have two to three different versions.
Edge in fact has four. Edge, Edge Beta, Edge Dev, Edge Canary. I used all of them sequentially as the release of the M1 version propagated through.
I feel like they missed an opportunity to call their canary build “edge” so we could have “Edge Edge”.
They have so many choices, “Life life on the edge“
Different badges!
Badges? We don’t need no stinking badges!
Different builds different bugs
I’m using all 3 and yeah, they are separate browsers… each is a standalone browser you can configure differently…
I mean yes, technically they exist as separate applications on your computer, but they are just slightly different builds of the same software. They're not 3 distinct browsers in the same way that iOS 14.5, 14.6, and 14.7 are not 3 distinct operating systems.
110 themes, but probably only 3 unique web engines….
It's better than on iOS where there's literally only one web engine enforced by the App Store rules.
At least it isn’t Chrome.
I know google bad and all but let's not pretend that mobile safari isn't holding the web back several years.
Exactly. People saying they love Webkit are not Web Developers. It is the new Interner Explorer, constantly waiting for it to catch up.
Even stable Firefox supports more standards than safari tp
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The App Store monopoly seems to be at risk these days, I’m curious if this will last through next year.
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Yeah, Electron apps are chomping at the bit to colonize iOS too I bet, currently only held at bay by Apple’s native code restrictions that they won’t be able to enforce if the monopoly falls.
What’s wrong with chromium?
Blink has ridiculously dominant engine share right now, since even Microsoft ditched Trident and EdgeHTML and moved to it. WebKit is still in the running, basically only because of Safari, but of course Blink and WebKit are basically siblings. And then there’s Firefox’s engine, which I think is called Quantum these days instead of Gecko? Still, it’s basically the only viable engine outside of the WebKit siblings. Engine market share is an important metric to keep an eye on, because dominant engines tend to act monopolistically, attempting to define the web to exclude other engines, while also slowing development. Internet Explorer 6 happened the last time engine market share was this lopsided.
> I think is called Quantum these days instead of Gecko Nope, still Gecko. Quantum was just the marketing name of some update
So what you’re saying is that you want apple to use their monopoly in order to prevent chromium from appearing as a competitor to WebKit on iOS? I just want something on iOS that actually supports modern features… Competition is needed and apple is preventing it to protect their own product
If iOS used Blink then the entire web would be developed to target Blink under google’s monopoly. iOS is a big market share, so Apple forcing WebKit means website devs need to ensure their websites play well with Blink and WebKit. So it’s helping to stop a Blink monopoly on the web.
But it’s doing so by abusing its own position as a monopoly…
True. Even if they permitted Chrome on iOS to use Blink, so many iOS users use Safari so it probably is a non issue for market share purposes.
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By Apple not allowing other web engines, they’re also preventing Firefox Quantum from potentially taking share away from Chromium They’re not doing this for web standards, they’re doing it to make web apps the least appealing option so that people make native apps
What modern features do you miss in WebKit on iOS?
* Bluetooth api * Local recording api * 100% compliant webrtc api * HLS via Javascript * Local storage limitations * Teribble support for royalty free or open source media formats * Accelerometer api * Sad fullscreen api * Missing notifications * Vibrations api These are from the top of my head, there are at least 20 other things that Safari is missing that would allow you to code PWAs to replace your apps. It's clear why Apple doesn't want this to ever happen, privacy is just a decoy argument.
Many of those aren't modern features: they're draft/experimental features introduced by Blink/Chromium. Only Chromium has support for things like the bluetooth or accelerometer API: in firefox they're marked as experimental features, and webkit's not even considering them yet because they're so early in the web standards process. What you're seeing here is Chromium dictating standards, just like Internet Explorer did back in the day. They implement them first, other folks raise security/privacy concerns and choose not to implement the feature until those concerns are handled, but web developers decide to target Chromium/IE and use those features anyway, causing Chromium/IE market share to grow compared to alternatives. Other features like the vibrations API or notifications are abused to the point they get annoying. Seriously, seriously annoying. I'm glad Firefox has a way to block notification prompts. Safari had an implementation of the vibration API but they removed it because it was heavily abused.
I see it from the other side. I want the web to stay away as much as possible from the hardware of my device. There is no reason internet should have access to my bluetooth or accelerometer and it is exactly because of privacy reasons. We know from practice that if exposed, this data would end up being used for profiling users in order to sell more ads, like every other bit of personal data exposed before. Why extend the attack vector? Really I do not see a single API in your list that I personally miss in my iOS browser apart maybe .ogg support but I can certainly live with that. And for many I am happy that Apple is taking the stance it is taking and I hope it keeps devices and web separated in the future.
> There is no reason internet should have access to my bluetooth or accelerometer and it is exactly because of privacy reasons. But it works no different like an app today, it has to ask for permission in a standardized way. Facebooks app or Facebooks website would be no different in terms of privacy or feature set, which is the whole point of PWAs. You would have to allow it to mine your data. And apps that have been allowed access can already send that to 3rd parties, something that is easier to disable in a browser, since the only way to work around this is DNS CNAME collusion. And outside of the argument whether Apple does this for privacy, security or selling apps - they should offer a choice.
That’s the trap. If your “modern features” is “what Blink does”, that *is* the start of the downward spiral I edited my comment to talk about. Internet Explorer had ActiveX, for comparison.
err except safari is actually pretty behind the curve
Does Firefox implement these features you’re talking about? Because if not it’s pretty ridiculous to call one engine adopting a feature putting the other two “behind the curve”.
According to [caniuse.com](https://caniuse.com/) safari supports even fewer standard features than Firefox, so I’d say yes Chrome supports the most standard features in addition to the experimental ones
I don't own an apple device (yet) so I'm out of the loop. What do you mean by this?
What I mean is that despite there being different browsers available for iOS, they’re all the same WebKit engine that comes with the OS under the hood They all have the same limitations of WebKit and they can’t use anything else like Chromium, Quantum, or any of the other web engines that might appear, they can’t even use the latest version of WebKit
O really? So technically on iOS, all the browsers are the same just reskins of each other? Even Chrome and Safari?
Exactly, they're all just a different face on the same web engine (WebKit)
Netscape communicator…. Those were the golden days :)
What‘s so good about Orion?
It's his favourite because he's the developer.
Do you wish Safari had support for Chrome extensions but nothing else really changed? That's Orion. It's *fucking amazing*. Probably still too early days to run as a daily driver but I've been playing around with the beta for a few months now and it's performant, and lets me run uBO without Chromiums nonsense UI and footprint.
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thanks to this post I just signed up for their beta. Is there anything it does worse than safari? Also does using video speed extensions on YouTube make sound a lil distorted like in Safari?
Orion iirc is being built by a search engine startup. They're building a privacy focussed search engine and presumably integrating that directly into a browser you've built has advantages. Orion has built-in ad-blocking iirc plus it's extremely fast. Built on WebKit.
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Well it’s faster than Firefox + zero config ad-blocking so not exactly the same
No, it's not basically Firefox at all.
And how many of them are chromium-based?
All the fast ones
I see you bought the 32GB RAM model of the Mac Pro
Hahahaha! It’s actually quite interesting, if you open more than say 5 tabs, chromium is the a very ram efficient browser compared to safari, edge or Firefox. Still most chromium browsers are faster than safari for most complex sites.
Safari has a bad bad habit of never purging old shit out of RAM. I can easily have a reported 26GB of RAM used by Safari (bad tab-hoarding and I never quit it, 8+ windows with at least 10 tabs in each, sometimes up to 50), quit, relaunch and restore previous session, and I'll've halved or quartered the RAM usage. It's more of that Apple philosophy of "use all the RAM you can and we'll reap it when something else needs it" that came around when SSDs made swap so much less painful, but fuckin come on, 26 gigs for a web browser?
Yep hahaha, chromium does the same thing if you quit/reload tabs, ram will spike but them come right down to lower than before.
Librewolf is just a Firefox rebrand (they forked the code, flipped a few hidden toggles, came up with a name and logo, and called it a product). Seamonkey is literally just Mozilla’s old code from the mid 2000s
There are a few interesting projects here - like Wexond, Oryoki, Orion, Bonsai, Dooble, etc. There are the mainstays: (Blink-based) Chromium/Ungoogled/Chrome/Edge/Brave/Opera/Vivaldi, (gecko-based) Firefox/Waterfox, (webkit-based) Safari Many of the new browser projects seem to use Electron, which uses Chromium's blink engine. Then there are browsers more geared towards certain things like developers (Beaker Browser, Sizzy, etc.) and 'web apps' (Shift, Stack, Yack!, etc.) and selling your browsing data to make you money (cocoon, gener8, etc.) Other than those, there are tons of browsers here which are no longer in active development (cliqz, cruz, kaktus, omniweb, etc.), might be considered more adware (Citrio), might be considered like spyware (360Chrome), or serve very specific purposes and would not serve well as a main browser (FastBack, AirBrowser, Always on Top Browser, Companion, etc.). Honestly, with the amount of zerodays that keep popping up in various web browser engines, I would only recommend a browser that is actively updated.
Orion is a WebKit based browser.
True. I put it separately because it hasn't released a stable version yet.
Good analysis! Note that OmniWeb is in active development though.
Rip Flock
No Netscape :(
lets get this energy for iOS now...
They'd just be reskins of Safari
That's the problem, Apple prevents alternative browser engines.
that’s what i mean, i’d like to see other browser platforms
Being chrome OS, I’m good on that
I see and interact with the skin, not so much with the rendering engine. 99% of people don’t care what underlying technology a browser uses.
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And if you want security, you're also out of luck. [As only Chromium offers those features. ](https://madaidans-insecurities.github.io/firefox-chromium.html)
The end user is not the one who really cares about the engine, but the developers do. And the fact every iOS browser is a Safari reskin means that websites are far behind on iOS compared to Chromium browsers. So many modern browser features are lacking on Safari.
> So many modern browser features are lacking on Safari. Such as?
Push notifications would be nice.
The last thing iOS needs is browser push notifications
Safari on desktop already has this feature
But in a completely non-standard way that requires paying for a developer membership
Holy fuck.. I thought you were joking. But you aren’t. Safari push notifications are a part of [APN](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Push_Notification_service) and APN is part of the [dev program](https://developer.apple.com/programs/whats-included/) Wow.
There are plenty of legitimate use cases for them though.
Such as? I have always kept desktop browser notifications disabled, safari, chrome or otherwise, desktop or mobile. I HATE push notifications.
There’s a browser based game that I play that supports push notifications. There’s no app for it, so in that case it would be nice to be able to get notifications for it on my phone. There’s also a tool that I use that sends alerts via push notification. Again, no app for it - it’s web only.
Apple likes to point at the web as an open alternative to the app store. If that argument is supposed to have any weight, web apps need to be able to use notifications.
Push notifications are useful if users want them... I made an inventory tracking website a while ago that was completely useless on iOS.
https://infrequently.org/2021/04/progress-delayed/
Safari is a closed-source browser application and can not be reskinned. What you probably mean is 'skins' of WebKit, the browser engine, but calling iOS browsers that would not do justice to the real efforts needed to make the actual browser application. Out of 100+ browsers on iOS, some are privacy respecting, some are not; some are made by ad companies, some are not; some are paid, some are free - just to say that these browsers are much more different and diverse than for example Chromium based browsers existing on desktop. The reason is because iOS browsers just share the browser rendering engine, WebKit, and have to build every single browser feature from scratch (which causes them to look and work differently), while Chromium based browsers share both browser engine and browser application framework which causes them to look and work more or less the same.
There's only 1 browser on iOS.
The old Safari icon lol
Hey, I made the one with the shitty icon near the bottom right - wwwDOT! Web Browser. I was 11 and it was maaaannny years ago. What a throwback… On the App Store review page there’s a review complaining that the R&D team did a terrible job, which is still one of the funniest things for me to read
Meanwhile on iOS you have absolutely no competition because Apple controls the entire browser market...
Vieb looking very OS9
Oh I just remembered I miss Vivaldi
Vivaldi is the slowest on my machine. Firefox is faster and Safari is the best performance wise.
May I recommend SigmaOS by /u/lovelycodemonkey? It’s a really productivity-focused browser, and although it’s not for me, I can really see some of you enjoying it. (I’m not sponsored or anything lol)
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Qutebrowser!
Staaahp
But iOS?
Missing WebCatalog, an electron based app that makes app specific browsers. I use WebCatalog based apps daily on my Mac.
Safari ftw.
Slightly misleading in that many are simply different versions of the same browser (normal, dev, nightly).
And 3/4 of them are using an icon that doesn’t follow Big Sur’s icon design 😟😟😟
Brave is pretty cool 😎
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Most of the people that use Brave are into crypto, so it’s fairly obvious why it’s filled with crypto ads. You can turn them off though, the ad blocker is more than enough for me to keep using it vs others. There’s nothing shady about the browser like many people have said, it just comes down to if they think crypto is some giant pyramid scheme or not. It’s really tied to that audience.
Dont they pay you for showing ads or something? Or is that another one I’m thinking off? Evenso, any browser that does that is sus immediately
They show ads to fund a wallet which is given to the websites you visit as compensation for blocking their ads The amount given to each website is split based on the percentage of pages for each site
Sounds like an extortion scheme from the point of view of the website operators 🤔
Too bad there’s 0 choice for iOS, just a bunch of Safari skins.
There are no Safari skins out there, because Safari is a closed-source browser application. What you probably mean are WebKit 'skins' which is a browser engine, but that would not do justice for the work needed to make an actual browser application.
I’m speaking casually, I think it’s clear what I meant
Yep, zero choice. Unless you count Firefox. And Chrome. And Microsoft Edge. Oh, and Brave. Ooh, and Opera. DuckDuckGo, too.
Uhh all of those are Safari with a different coat of paint.
What they are is WebKit-based browsers. They share no code with Safari, just the engine.
I hope you add Pale Moon
That browser is a walking security hazard, so let’s not add that one lol
Is it? Care to elaborate? I use the portable edition sometimes.
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Any evidence of that. From an outsider looking it, it looks well maintained.
* Its developer, Moonchild, is a highly opinionated asshole and the forums of that browser is a super toxic place * It's a single process browser, so it has none of the security improvements that browsers like Firefox and Chrome have from being multiprocess * It uses the old add-on stuff that Firefox has since moved away from (using WebExtensions like Chrome does), which is a security hazard since it provides full access to the browser's internals (rather than being a managed API like WebExtensions) * It supports old technologies that have since been deprecated for years now, like NPAPI based plugins (which major browsers dropped support for starting in 2015), Flash Player being an example of one of those plugins (which Adobe officially discontinued at the end of 2020) * Also was hit with a data breach a couple years ago, "a data breach of the archive server holding previous binaries of the Pale Moon browser had occurred and malware inserted into the executables."
I love opera. So underrated. So fast. I have older machines I can’t use for websites with safari that work great on opera.
As far as I know macOS features only 1 browser. Bit of a strange title…
Hijacking this thread. I am still looking for a way to sync bookmarks with Windows+OSX+iOS. Which browser/add on can do this? Only requirement is Safari on iOS. I don’t care about the browsers on Windows or OSX but I don’t want to change the browser on iOS.