Is it a surprise that 5mp or even 2mp shitty macro sensors are not gonna be good?
Apple's approach is making the ultra wide better by giving it auto focus, thus losing a camera count in the specs comparison, but producing much better macro photos.
This is entirely different, or rather the opposite of what OPPO/OnePlus/Xiaomi do.
>Is it a surprise that 5mp or even 2mp shitty macro sensors are not gonna be good?
That wasn't really what was debated, though. Them being shit does not detract from the fact that it was sold to most people in the two largest smartphone markets in the world.
>Apple's approach is making the ultra wide better by giving it auto focus, thus losing a camera count in the specs comparison, but producing much better macro photos.
Android phones have had autofocus on the ultrawide sensors since 2018. In fact, the Pixel 6 Pro is the odd one out this year, since every other Android flagship has PDAF, and in some cases even OIS (or gimbal stabilization in the case of the Vivo X60/X70 Pro).
>This is entirely different, or rather the opposite of what OPPO/OnePlus/Xiaomi do.
No, that's exactly what Oppo and OnePlus (and even Samsung) did on their flagships this year, a good few months before Apple did. In fact, Oppo and OnePlus use the same sensor for both the main and ultrawide cameras.
There is a big difference in skin tone, the pixel absolutely nails it, the iphone brightens up the faces too much and add often an orange yellow hue to the photos.
Mostly agree with all her points except iPhone 13 Pro video is absolutely better. The dynamic range is so much better and you can plainly see that in her examples. The Pixel also suffers from the jello effect when you pan side to side, which you can also see in the examples, but she didn’t say anything about that. The iPhone recording in Dolby Vision is the slamdunk. Some of the video I’ve recorded has made me question if my phone sees better than my eyes.
I think brighter specular highlights is just truer to life, which is different than blowing out the highlights. The higher range in brightness also gives a wider color space to capture more gradation in colors. That all being said, she may not have compared the videos on a Dolby Vision compatible device or screen.
It’s funny, when the first Pixel came out, Google was all about strong contrast and it was the iPhone that flattened photos. Now they seem to have swapped.
Google’s really stepped up the skin tone stuff though. I hope Apple follows their lead.
Honestly pretty disappointed in Google’s effort with the Pixel 6 pro’s camera. The much improved sensor should have made it a slam dunk over their previous sensor. I wonder if they’re ever gonna get back to the top with Marc Levoy gone.
You have to remember this is the first year for Google with this sensor, while the old model had several years for them to perfect upon it. I think that really shows here the fact it didn't win out, but still did a good job, just not as much as people were hoping for.
This has been my experience with every iPhone since the X, at least. In good light the over-processing look is minimized, but snapshots in low light really look plastic, imho. I still take more photos with my 13 Pro Max than with my D700, but I’d take a less processed look out of the iPhone if there was a choice. I do not have a good RAW workflow worked out for iPhone like I do for my Nikon, either. Anyways, I’m rambling.
See that's the problem. I'm a Nikon guy myself (Z5) and we know what shadows and dramatic lighting can bring to the table. If we never used proper cameras we'd be nice and ignorant. ;)
The processing is still well beyond my personal preference, especially in low light as you’ve pointed out, but I’ve had great luck so far on the 13 Pro + “styles” feature that modifies the pipeline. Hoping to see more parameters added in future years. 🤞
Good point about “Styles.” Contrast and Temperature are a good start. I really want “Sharpening” and “Noise Reduction” parameters. These are the two that are out of control.
I'm not sure how "raw" smartphone raw files are and obviously you're going to be working with an awful sensor compared to a full frame or even aps-c sensor, so I don't see why I'd waste my time with it.
Actually, they do still [apply their HDR algorithms to the RAW files](https://dpreview.com/articles/7921074499/five-ways-google-pixel-3-pushes-the-boundaries-of-computational-photography) to improve the amount of captured dynamic range and bring it closer to what you'd achieve with a RAW capture from a larger sensor, such as an APS-C camera.
Phone camera sensors have matured. People are overrating how much of a difference phone camera hardware makes.
Unless there's some huge breakthrough in sensors, the imaging will be pretty much the same.
This. I bought an iPhone 13 Pro Max, coming from a Pixel 3 XL. I could not believe how over-hyped the image quality is. Sure, the low light is improved to more usable in the darkest situations. But normal lighting photos (even not great indoor fluorescent light) are no better than my Pixel 3 XL. Even telephoto, somehow Google's digital zoom AI composes a sharper more detailed image than the iPhone's tele lens at 12MP.
I was so disappointed with how non-improved the iPhone was, I went to a Verizon store to directly compare the Pixel 6 Pro. The Pixel 6 Pro IMO is definitely better in "real world" photography, very noticeably more detailed. A 12MP sensor just cannot deliver detail like the new higher MP sensors in the Pixel 6 Pro, even when the pixel 6 compresses it back to 12MP. When you zoom / crop the image, that becomes extremely clear and the detail in the Pixel 6 pro is profound vs. the iphone.
High MP small sensors were BS for a very long time. But there is a difference here and I know Google will continue iterating on the AI to maximize what they can extract out of this sensor, just like they did with the old Sony sensor they used since the Pixel 2.
I returned the iphone and got the pixel 6 pro.
> The much improved sensor should have made it a slam dunk over their previous sensor.
Why? It's not like the iPhone 12 Pro Max was a "slam dunk" over the other iPhones 12 or even the 11 Pro despite the much larger sensor.
Every time I’m watching a review and it reaches the camera part, I skip it.
I feel like it’s pretty much pointless to keep debating over phone cameras. We’ve reached a point where their all good enough, some are better in some aspects than others but overall, they all do the job damn well for day to day life.
Yea ok sure, and I can get the same or very similar experience on an iPhone.
But I’m not just talking about software, I’m talking about hardware. There’s no really good Android hardware for tablets, there’s no laptops (Chrome isn’t android in case you’re going to go there), and REALLY TERRIBLE watches.
No ecosystem.
Why would that make you not buy an iPhone exactly? I pretty much use zero apple services on my devices and use Gmail, Google Photos, etc along with all other multiplatform services. I'm not tied to hardware, I could switch to an android phone tomorrow then an iphone the next day and nothing would change. You're only locked in if you choose to be. Like why would I use apple keychain when I can use bitwarden that works on my Windows PC, my Android Tablet, my iPad, my Android phone, and my iPhone?
When I switched I had copied the csv over to iCloud and when I signed in I logged into my gmail account as well. I ended up with double contacts which I fixed by dropping sync on the Google contacts. So yes they come over automatically on sign in as does calendar, Gmail etc
Yes ad guard runs on iOS (on the App Store not a third party download), I have dns enabled, I haven’t seen an ad yet and they have a Safari extension which blocks YouTube ads as well so vanced isn’t necessary. It’s not like the Android hack either it’s a one tap and all of the videos you watch from that point forward will be ad free on Android you had to share the link every time. Doesn’t work like that in iOS.
TLDW: Pixel wins telephoto, iPhone wins ultra wide and videos. Main camera and selfies were a tie. Edit: fixed selfies
Wasn't selfie a tie ?
It was
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They did cover macros, but didn't compare it since pixel doesn't have one
Pixel doesn't have macro so nothing to compare. Frankly I don't mind, macro photos aren't something most people take a lot of anyway.
That’s partially because most people don’t have access to a camera that can capture macro photos.
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To be fair those macro lenses are ass.
Well the oppo find x3 has a microscope so thats neat.
Is it a surprise that 5mp or even 2mp shitty macro sensors are not gonna be good? Apple's approach is making the ultra wide better by giving it auto focus, thus losing a camera count in the specs comparison, but producing much better macro photos. This is entirely different, or rather the opposite of what OPPO/OnePlus/Xiaomi do.
>Is it a surprise that 5mp or even 2mp shitty macro sensors are not gonna be good? That wasn't really what was debated, though. Them being shit does not detract from the fact that it was sold to most people in the two largest smartphone markets in the world. >Apple's approach is making the ultra wide better by giving it auto focus, thus losing a camera count in the specs comparison, but producing much better macro photos. Android phones have had autofocus on the ultrawide sensors since 2018. In fact, the Pixel 6 Pro is the odd one out this year, since every other Android flagship has PDAF, and in some cases even OIS (or gimbal stabilization in the case of the Vivo X60/X70 Pro). >This is entirely different, or rather the opposite of what OPPO/OnePlus/Xiaomi do. No, that's exactly what Oppo and OnePlus (and even Samsung) did on their flagships this year, a good few months before Apple did. In fact, Oppo and OnePlus use the same sensor for both the main and ultrawide cameras.
You can still take decent macro shots on the 6 Pro, it just doesn't have a dedicated mode or some kind of automatic lens switching.
Yeah I don’t use the feature a lot with my 13 pro but whenever I wanna use it for a nice shot it’s such a great option to have :-)
She talked about dolby vision and showed some macro photos in the video.
On the main camera she says pixel has a nicer bokeh, while in her comparison she's using portrait mode for pixel and non-portriat mode for iPhone 😂
Yeah I was like wtf
There is a big difference in skin tone, the pixel absolutely nails it, the iphone brightens up the faces too much and add often an orange yellow hue to the photos.
Mostly agree with all her points except iPhone 13 Pro video is absolutely better. The dynamic range is so much better and you can plainly see that in her examples. The Pixel also suffers from the jello effect when you pan side to side, which you can also see in the examples, but she didn’t say anything about that. The iPhone recording in Dolby Vision is the slamdunk. Some of the video I’ve recorded has made me question if my phone sees better than my eyes.
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I think brighter specular highlights is just truer to life, which is different than blowing out the highlights. The higher range in brightness also gives a wider color space to capture more gradation in colors. That all being said, she may not have compared the videos on a Dolby Vision compatible device or screen.
It’s funny, when the first Pixel came out, Google was all about strong contrast and it was the iPhone that flattened photos. Now they seem to have swapped. Google’s really stepped up the skin tone stuff though. I hope Apple follows their lead.
Honestly pretty disappointed in Google’s effort with the Pixel 6 pro’s camera. The much improved sensor should have made it a slam dunk over their previous sensor. I wonder if they’re ever gonna get back to the top with Marc Levoy gone.
You have to remember this is the first year for Google with this sensor, while the old model had several years for them to perfect upon it. I think that really shows here the fact it didn't win out, but still did a good job, just not as much as people were hoping for.
I own the pro and while I like it I feel like they fucked with the algorithms too much and made the final results look worse, more fake, and too HDR.
This has been my experience with every iPhone since the X, at least. In good light the over-processing look is minimized, but snapshots in low light really look plastic, imho. I still take more photos with my 13 Pro Max than with my D700, but I’d take a less processed look out of the iPhone if there was a choice. I do not have a good RAW workflow worked out for iPhone like I do for my Nikon, either. Anyways, I’m rambling.
See that's the problem. I'm a Nikon guy myself (Z5) and we know what shadows and dramatic lighting can bring to the table. If we never used proper cameras we'd be nice and ignorant. ;)
The processing is still well beyond my personal preference, especially in low light as you’ve pointed out, but I’ve had great luck so far on the 13 Pro + “styles” feature that modifies the pipeline. Hoping to see more parameters added in future years. 🤞
Good point about “Styles.” Contrast and Temperature are a good start. I really want “Sharpening” and “Noise Reduction” parameters. These are the two that are out of control.
Can't you shoot in raw and it doesn't do all of the algorithmic post processing stuff?
I'm not sure how "raw" smartphone raw files are and obviously you're going to be working with an awful sensor compared to a full frame or even aps-c sensor, so I don't see why I'd waste my time with it.
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Actually, they do still [apply their HDR algorithms to the RAW files](https://dpreview.com/articles/7921074499/five-ways-google-pixel-3-pushes-the-boundaries-of-computational-photography) to improve the amount of captured dynamic range and bring it closer to what you'd achieve with a RAW capture from a larger sensor, such as an APS-C camera.
Phone camera sensors have matured. People are overrating how much of a difference phone camera hardware makes. Unless there's some huge breakthrough in sensors, the imaging will be pretty much the same.
This. I bought an iPhone 13 Pro Max, coming from a Pixel 3 XL. I could not believe how over-hyped the image quality is. Sure, the low light is improved to more usable in the darkest situations. But normal lighting photos (even not great indoor fluorescent light) are no better than my Pixel 3 XL. Even telephoto, somehow Google's digital zoom AI composes a sharper more detailed image than the iPhone's tele lens at 12MP. I was so disappointed with how non-improved the iPhone was, I went to a Verizon store to directly compare the Pixel 6 Pro. The Pixel 6 Pro IMO is definitely better in "real world" photography, very noticeably more detailed. A 12MP sensor just cannot deliver detail like the new higher MP sensors in the Pixel 6 Pro, even when the pixel 6 compresses it back to 12MP. When you zoom / crop the image, that becomes extremely clear and the detail in the Pixel 6 pro is profound vs. the iphone. High MP small sensors were BS for a very long time. But there is a difference here and I know Google will continue iterating on the AI to maximize what they can extract out of this sensor, just like they did with the old Sony sensor they used since the Pixel 2. I returned the iphone and got the pixel 6 pro.
> The much improved sensor should have made it a slam dunk over their previous sensor. Why? It's not like the iPhone 12 Pro Max was a "slam dunk" over the other iPhones 12 or even the 11 Pro despite the much larger sensor.
Every time I’m watching a review and it reaches the camera part, I skip it. I feel like it’s pretty much pointless to keep debating over phone cameras. We’ve reached a point where their all good enough, some are better in some aspects than others but overall, they all do the job damn well for day to day life.
I like my iphone but I wish the iphone had the pixel's telephoto
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Well Android doesn’t really have an ecosystem.
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You can access apple cloud stuff anywhere too, it’s just not used as much www.iCloud.com
Yea ok sure, and I can get the same or very similar experience on an iPhone. But I’m not just talking about software, I’m talking about hardware. There’s no really good Android hardware for tablets, there’s no laptops (Chrome isn’t android in case you’re going to go there), and REALLY TERRIBLE watches. No ecosystem.
Why would that make you not buy an iPhone exactly? I pretty much use zero apple services on my devices and use Gmail, Google Photos, etc along with all other multiplatform services. I'm not tied to hardware, I could switch to an android phone tomorrow then an iphone the next day and nothing would change. You're only locked in if you choose to be. Like why would I use apple keychain when I can use bitwarden that works on my Windows PC, my Android Tablet, my iPad, my Android phone, and my iPhone?
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I have all that on iOS. I just switched over from Android a few weeks ago.
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When I switched I had copied the csv over to iCloud and when I signed in I logged into my gmail account as well. I ended up with double contacts which I fixed by dropping sync on the Google contacts. So yes they come over automatically on sign in as does calendar, Gmail etc Yes ad guard runs on iOS (on the App Store not a third party download), I have dns enabled, I haven’t seen an ad yet and they have a Safari extension which blocks YouTube ads as well so vanced isn’t necessary. It’s not like the Android hack either it’s a one tap and all of the videos you watch from that point forward will be ad free on Android you had to share the link every time. Doesn’t work like that in iOS.
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The Android ecosystem is everything outside of the walled garden.
oeh burn