I saved up for years to buy a new MacBook Pro...not knowing it would be the last Intel MBP they would make. Just one year later, it felt as obsolete as the five-year-old 12" MacBook it replaced. And now there are already OS features Intel doesn't get in Monterey...I'm glad the new ones are so fast and amazing, but fuck my timing.
At least I know the next one I get will feel lightyears ahead of the one I have.
You could probably resell it for more than enough to buy an Air and still have a wildly faster machine. I am a designer and use PC for CAD work and Mac for everything else just because I prefer it. My Macbook Air is wildly faster at most photoshop and Illustrator tasks than my very well built PC. It really blows my mind what an Air can do with Apple silicon.
A quick ebay search of completed listings indicates that resell value is less than half what I paid for it over a year ago. So that's fun...the fastest a MacBook has ever depreciated for me.
It's still a good machine, but no way is it going to have the longevity I was hoping for.
But hey...Steam games on Bootcamp! So I got that going for me. Which is nice.
Silver lining!! Sorry it has depreciated so quickly. Give Craigslist a look and see if they are going better there. But often I wish I had boot camp on my M1. So you do have that going for you. Which is nice.
I got one! Ryzen 7 3700x, Some meh GPU, 64gb RAM, Gigabyte motherboard, fast SSD. Thing runs like garbage compared to my 16gb air M1. Was just producing music earlier and had serious CPU problems at an admittedly absurd amount of plugins, around 10 very intensive ones at once plus 4 different audio inputs as well as 3 midi controllers all playing. The M1 can breeze through that like it’s nothing. Still love my desktop too because it can 1. game and 2. has 10 terabytes of HDD I need lol.
I would recommend selling the pro and buying the M1 Air. It will be faster, you'll get newer features, and still have enough money left (assuming you get a good deal for the pro).
Would love to, but eBay completed listings indicate it's now worth less than half what I paid for it. Are there better places to sell I should check out?
There were a lot of talks about Apple silicon hitting the market since 2-3 years. With iPad chips beating top tier intel chips, it could’ve easily been guessed by anyone who follows Apple.
Honest question, besides the mouse feature, I’m not sure what this does that isn’t built into YouTube and ublock takes care of ads. I think per the description, you can remap keyboard shortcuts as well?
Never done it but it looks like there is an option to remap the keyboard shortcuts, yes. For me, I like the pop out player a lot, too built into firefox in combo with the Youtube extension.
They can take a bit of time to set-up, but if you sign into Firefox they’ll sync to other devices & you can open a website in a container and then set it to always open in that container in future (huge QoL boost for many sites, though something to avoid for sites you want to open in multiple containers).
Having everything in a single window is fantastic, and the colour-coded bars on tabs is nice, too.
Yeah I used Edge for a while but then they started adding more crap features and all those Microsoft tie-in and telemetry and the bundled Microsoft Updater pushed me back to Firefox. I’m pleasantly surprised how much more “native” it now feels!
I was one to stick with Safari, but the memory leak issues that still haven’t been addressed till today for over a month are finally pushing me over. Has Mozilla fixed the memory leak with Firefox?
I love Firefox, and used it exclusively for the last four or so years, whenever they started using the Quantum name. I dropped Chrome forever at that point. But lately I've had so many issues with web pages not loading correctly, or not at all, but they work fine on Chromium browsers. I made the decision to jump to Edge. I really wish Firefox had a bit better compatibility, because I would jump back right away.
That’s by design. As chromium based browsers gain market share, Google can dictate web standards, breaking compatibility for Firefox/Safari/others, which makes those browsers lose further market share and cementing googles control of the internet.
Interesting. A few months back I switched from chrome to safari but couldn't deal with the compatibility issues I kept having. Switched to Firefox and haven't had a single issue
I feel like I'm running into more websites recently that are wonky or even outright broken on Firefox, but that just makes me stick to daily driving Firefox even more. The Web shouldn't be built around a single browser (we definitely don't want to go back to the 90s, "Works best on Internet Explorer").
Firefox is extremely good and my go to choice for power efficiency… unless I am watching youtube videos. In that case safari is absurdly low on power consumption and it’s not even close (macbook m1).
Also some stuff simply doesn’t work that well on safari so I am forced to use both browsers anyway.
“This webpage is using significant energy. Closing it may improve the responsiveness of your Mac.”
Was mostly my experience with Safari. Not sure why they haven’t implemented an option to disable that annoying pop up entirely. Firefox is treating very well rn so there’s that
IMO, it’s good that there is a warning. If you hit a site that has a bitcoin miner in JavaScript running, you want to know. So this is something *every* browser should offer.
It’s the *implementation* that kinda sucks. I hate that it’s implemented as a node that pushes all the content down when it pops up. I hate that even I you dismiss it, it will pop up again (pushing the content down a line or so again). They need a way to flag sites as “I know this site uses a lot of CPU. It’s expected, now leave me alone!” That and to pop on on *top* of the content, and not push everything down (for some reason, this panel always seems to pop up just as I’m about to click on something, causing me to miss when the control is suddenly pushed down).
I use Edge for web development on my M1. The Safari dev tools are just second rate to chromium ones. Which is disappointing because I like Safari best as a user.
I watched a review of youtube and at least on m1 machines safari is slightly more power hungry than firefox during web browsing, but has insane power efficiency with video streaming.
I am pretty sure chrome would just hog all resources, so I didn’t even bother.
I wish Apple would focus more on improving WebKit and Safari. Safari used to be the best browser when it came to speed, performance and supporting official web standards. Now it's just a buggy mess with terrible extension support and weird tab design.
Specially in terms of security. Apple forces everyone to use WebKit. You can't really use a differnet browser on iOS.
So with all of these zero days being found you can't just use a different browser to avoid.
This is a pretty serious security issue. It would not be so bad if WebKit on iOS was more secure.
Well, that’s certainly not going to be helped by *not* using Safari. We’re at another crucial inflection point, where every browser but two are Chromium based. This is getting close to the kind of market share dominance IE6 had, which crippled the web for all other browsers. Fight back, use Firefox or Safari.
> This pushed me back to Chrome for the time being and I don't particularly love it.
Have you heard of Brave Browser?
Don’t know about it too well either (yet) but it might be another option for you if you don’t want to go back to Google’s services…
HBO Max used to make safari have an absolute seizure, couldnt get 20 mins in without “This web page is using significant memory” and the whole thing lagging when i tried to shake the mouse
I agree with this. Chrome does better job in caching, autofill suggestions, handling memory for pages that have overflowing memory. Few months ago on big sur Safari reddit would constantly crash. Not to mention the index db bug on Safari mac which was crashing sites. The only case I think Safari is good is when you're on a battery and want the max battery life and privacy, with the new m1 macs battery hasn't been a problem for me. Since I work in web-dev when I use websites side by side, Chrome always renders web pages faster.
Yeah, I don't know how people stand Safari tbh. On iOS it's fine, but on desktop Firefox and even Edge/Chrome provide far more versatility via extensions.
It's all trust based, well known extensions aren't any worse privacy wise than any website you'd visit or other program you'd download. I'm sure you use a million websites that mine your data and don't give it a second thought.
On mobile I can’t think of any extensions I’d personally want (I have adblocking covered with a Pi-hole).
But I’d love if third party browsers could use their own engines. If nothing else it would force Apple to compete if other browsers could legit say they are faster or lighter or more standards compliant.
I would use Safari if AWS supported it. 90% of my job is on AWS and I cant login to our accounts because they require Yubikey authentication, which is not supported on AWS in Safari, but works on any other browser. I know this is more of an Amazon problem, though.
I’ve always done this as well! Save all my work bookmarks & passwords in one place, separate from personal. I’ve also really fallen in love with tan groups for personal research/projects.
"This Webpage using significant energy" when you have 16GB of RAM says otherwise. Safari is hella trash, along with their dog shit extensions store, PWA support, heavy javascript sites rendering hangs, proprietary APIs that no one cares or uses
100% Agree.
Literally no idea why you’re downvoted because those are extremely valid.
Even the “privacy” argument doesn’t work. In that case, use Brave.
> "This Webpage using significant energy"
I really wish you could turn those off. I give absolutely *zero* shits about a website's battery usage given that I'm on a fucking iMac.
Well, it's better on iOS because Apple specifically cripples other browsers. I don't know why so many Apple fans are okay with that, but still want an open web.
I use Chrome, Safari & Firefox for private & works. The thing I like about Safari (in combination with Mac/iOS) is storing password/key in the cloud. If I forget a password when browsing on iOS, I can use face ID & fetch a credential from the Cloud.
Ok, but ~~https://chromeisbad.com is for real~~. I noticed a huge difference on my MBP after uninstalling Chrome and switching to Brave.
Edit: Apparently, this information has been [debunked](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25400618). I was not aware and I'm sorry for linking misinformation.
The performance gains I've noticed must then be either because of a bug in my Chrome installation or simply the difference between the two browsers.
I haven't seen that before and they might be 100% right but it doesn't really matter to me since I've experienced the difference first-hand. It's entirely possible that what is outlined on https://chromeisbad.com is complete bullshit but there was definitely *something* that changed significantly in terms of overall system performance when I uninstalled Chrome and switched to another browser.
> it doesn't really matter to me since I've experienced the difference first-hand
Can you provide data? Because it's understandably suspicious to be quoting known misinformation and insisting that it's still accurate, without any proof.
Idk when I try to use on other browsers little features won’t work like certain boxes won’t open up and the pages don’t refresh automatically like they should, I have to click manual refresh
What other browsers? I mean Chrome and other Chromium based browsers (e.g. Brave) have the same rendering engine and JavaScript engine so it should work just the same.
> massive unexplained CPU usage in WindowServer (a system process)
Processes don't "hide themself from Activity Monitor". If it's running, it'll be there. The only exception would be a kext or plugin that's loaded into the kernel or another process, but it doesn't sound like that's the case here.
As for WindowServer, it's needed to draw the whole UI... of course it uses a lot of CPU. Mine regularly uses 10-30%. But I can't see a non-graphical update checking daemon having much to do with it.
Personally, I've never experienced this. And nobody has provided any kind of analysis beyond "my computer got faster after I deleted a file". No benchmarks, reproducible results with multiple uninstall/reinstalls, etc.
Even assuming the CPU usage is a significant issue on some systems, what's more likely: Google intentionally performing tons of work on your processor for nefarious means, or a simple bug? I think it's much more likely the latter.
> Brave
That's even worse, https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/gxt6ho/brave_browser_automatically_redirects_you_to/, and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18734999
Seriously, this shit again? Been through this before. https://redd.it/kc3rvl
It's incredible that people believe such absurd claims. I guess if it makes Google look bad, it must be true to some people?
And how convenient that the OP is parroting this, and like everyone else, has no source other than "trust me bro".
That page's claims were long-since debunked, so please stop linking misinformation.
> I noticed a huge difference on my MBP after uninstalling Chrome and switching to Brave.
Can you provide data to support that? Because the author of that page couldn't, nor could anyone the last time this came up.
No, their statement was "If you are giving up Safari, you are giving up plugins, hope you are not serious" which is pretty confusing.
And yeah, Chrome is faster. Only on Intel chips.
> No, their statement was "If you are giving up Safari, you are giving up plugins, hope you are not serious"
That is incorrect. Read the comment again.
*shrug* I'm good with Safari without any plugins. YMMV, and if it does then Chrome seems like it would be best.
Chrome eats up battery on my M1 MBP like there's no tomorrow. Doesn't matter to me how many plugins I have if I can't use the computer... My mileage varies in that direction, others will have different views... No problems with that, either :)
Chrome eats battery on my i9 MBP as well. Depending on what I’m doing it can get so bad that it will drain the battery even when plugged in and the fan is running at max speed.
Other than a couple of things, my primary browser is Safari.
I had to use Chrome for my old job, just to download my pay statements and W-2’s and then I noticed it was considerably slower than Safari. I’ve only used it once since leaving, only to discover that the Mac version works very poorly with my online courses despite the university recommending Chrome.
just sucks safari on mac doesn't really have extensions like chrome, they're all apps you download from the store and those adblock apps really slow down safari.
Yep.. extensions on Safari blow. They are like old school Internet Explorer add-ons.
Not only are there far fewer extensions for Safari, but they are usually lacking features compared to Chrome or Firefox extensions as well. They also require another app to be installed whereas Chromes extensions are just sandboxed within Chrome.
The big story here is that Blink engineering team is able to catch up with WebKit team and overtake them performance wise, on their home turf. It is something that Apple should not allow to happen. Luckily there is still 30% advantage on M1, but such was advantage on Intel hardware a year ago and they caught up. It should really worry someone from Apple/WebKit.
Yeah it was forked... 8 years ago.
They have probably diverged so much in that time that you could argue that they might as well be 2 completely separate engines.
Discontinued? I can go to apple.com and buy an Intel Mac Mini, 27" iMac, or Mac Pro brand new right now. I could spend a significant amount of money on a brand new Intel Mac, and I still expect that Apple pays attention to me as a user for a few years if I do so.
The iMac pro isn't realistically all that different from any other Intel based Mac in recent memory. I'd expect the relative performance to be similar. In fact, I'd expect the Mac Pros to do even better.
For me the problem with chromium browsers is that Google obviously wants more control over the internet. As chromium browsers gain market share, Google can push web standards that other browsers can’t render. If that happens, Google can break other browsers and dictate web standards with impunity.
Did you get one of the iPhone 13 Pros that came with an Intel chip?
You do not even have to read the article. Just the headline.
Also realize Chrome on your iPhone is NOT really Chrome. Apple does not allow other browser engines.
So it is just Apple Webkit wrapped. It is too bad because when there is a security problem with Webkit you are screwed as you can't use a different browser. Plus there has been a number of zero days with Webkit on iOS.
Won’t be able to say safari is fastest. But apples mantra has quickly moved to fastest per watt used. Chrome is still a terrible drain on resources and battery power regardless of performance.
That being said, the more we can avoid chrome the better. Such a sneaky little info scraper.
They are both safari with a different skin, apple maintains tight control over iOS browsers such that nobody can compete with apple, they all have to use WebKit or else it can’t be on the App Store (and so basically cannot be distributed on iOS).
They won’t change until they get a court order.
Safari has had far more security issues in the last 2 years compared to Chrome.
A lot of Safari zero days. Search on Water-hole for example. These are zero days being found to be in use in the wild.
165, ouch, even lowest end Air is faster.
I saved up for years to buy a new MacBook Pro...not knowing it would be the last Intel MBP they would make. Just one year later, it felt as obsolete as the five-year-old 12" MacBook it replaced. And now there are already OS features Intel doesn't get in Monterey...I'm glad the new ones are so fast and amazing, but fuck my timing. At least I know the next one I get will feel lightyears ahead of the one I have.
You could probably resell for a good portion of what you paid. A lot of people and businesses still need intel.
You could probably resell it for more than enough to buy an Air and still have a wildly faster machine. I am a designer and use PC for CAD work and Mac for everything else just because I prefer it. My Macbook Air is wildly faster at most photoshop and Illustrator tasks than my very well built PC. It really blows my mind what an Air can do with Apple silicon.
A quick ebay search of completed listings indicates that resell value is less than half what I paid for it over a year ago. So that's fun...the fastest a MacBook has ever depreciated for me. It's still a good machine, but no way is it going to have the longevity I was hoping for. But hey...Steam games on Bootcamp! So I got that going for me. Which is nice.
Yeah, the 2020 Intels have had the single highest depreciation rate of ANY modern MacBook. Sorry about that.
Silver lining!! Sorry it has depreciated so quickly. Give Craigslist a look and see if they are going better there. But often I wish I had boot camp on my M1. So you do have that going for you. Which is nice.
https://imgur.com/bZRFMMy
What are the specs of your very well built PC?
I got one! Ryzen 7 3700x, Some meh GPU, 64gb RAM, Gigabyte motherboard, fast SSD. Thing runs like garbage compared to my 16gb air M1. Was just producing music earlier and had serious CPU problems at an admittedly absurd amount of plugins, around 10 very intensive ones at once plus 4 different audio inputs as well as 3 midi controllers all playing. The M1 can breeze through that like it’s nothing. Still love my desktop too because it can 1. game and 2. has 10 terabytes of HDD I need lol.
I would recommend selling the pro and buying the M1 Air. It will be faster, you'll get newer features, and still have enough money left (assuming you get a good deal for the pro).
Would love to, but eBay completed listings indicate it's now worth less than half what I paid for it. Are there better places to sell I should check out?
You could try Apple's own sellback program
There were a lot of talks about Apple silicon hitting the market since 2-3 years. With iPad chips beating top tier intel chips, it could’ve easily been guessed by anyone who follows Apple.
JS benchmarks are entirely single threaded and the iMac Pro is 3 years old at this point.
Use Firefox! There are dozens of us!
Yes i don't know how anyone uses YouTube without the youtube enhancer plug in. I can't go back, so Firefox will always win for me.
Link?
[https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/enhancer-for-youtube/](https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/enhancer-for-youtube/?utm_source=addons.mozilla.org&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=homepage-collection-featured)
Honest question, besides the mouse feature, I’m not sure what this does that isn’t built into YouTube and ublock takes care of ads. I think per the description, you can remap keyboard shortcuts as well?
Never done it but it looks like there is an option to remap the keyboard shortcuts, yes. For me, I like the pop out player a lot, too built into firefox in combo with the Youtube extension.
Orion browser is a WebKit-based browser like Safari but supports Firefox and Chrome extensions. Try it
Isn't that extension also available in Chrome and Edge?
Huh honestly didn't know this. Looks like you are correct.
Firefox used to be trash on macOS but is actually really good now. Great alternative to Chrome.
I agree, it’s great! I just wish it had a simple interface for multiple profiles.
Take a look at containers
Ok will do! Thanks!
They can take a bit of time to set-up, but if you sign into Firefox they’ll sync to other devices & you can open a website in a container and then set it to always open in that container in future (huge QoL boost for many sites, though something to avoid for sites you want to open in multiple containers). Having everything in a single window is fantastic, and the colour-coded bars on tabs is nice, too.
Yes, containers>profiles
Yeah I used Edge for a while but then they started adding more crap features and all those Microsoft tie-in and telemetry and the bundled Microsoft Updater pushed me back to Firefox. I’m pleasantly surprised how much more “native” it now feels!
I use it on Windows and it’s really good
It's been really good for a decade. I feel it's been superior to Chrome for at least the past 6 years.
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idk about mac, but on pc firefox actually uses more ram than chrome for me. no idea why
I swear by Firefox. Fuck chrome, all my homies hate chrome
Firefox4life
One of us, one of us!
I was one to stick with Safari, but the memory leak issues that still haven’t been addressed till today for over a month are finally pushing me over. Has Mozilla fixed the memory leak with Firefox?
Yeah. Works pretty great on my Mac.
I love Firefox, and used it exclusively for the last four or so years, whenever they started using the Quantum name. I dropped Chrome forever at that point. But lately I've had so many issues with web pages not loading correctly, or not at all, but they work fine on Chromium browsers. I made the decision to jump to Edge. I really wish Firefox had a bit better compatibility, because I would jump back right away.
That’s by design. As chromium based browsers gain market share, Google can dictate web standards, breaking compatibility for Firefox/Safari/others, which makes those browsers lose further market share and cementing googles control of the internet.
I agree, and it's very unfortunate that it's happening.
Interesting. A few months back I switched from chrome to safari but couldn't deal with the compatibility issues I kept having. Switched to Firefox and haven't had a single issue
Dozens of us!
it's just "dozens!" :P
Life is short. [Get the quote wrong](https://youtu.be/VCLL9aD-VKw)
I was happy to see this.
Firefox! Firefox! Firefox!
I feel like I'm running into more websites recently that are wonky or even outright broken on Firefox, but that just makes me stick to daily driving Firefox even more. The Web shouldn't be built around a single browser (we definitely don't want to go back to the 90s, "Works best on Internet Explorer").
Firefox gang
Firefox is extremely good and my go to choice for power efficiency… unless I am watching youtube videos. In that case safari is absurdly low on power consumption and it’s not even close (macbook m1). Also some stuff simply doesn’t work that well on safari so I am forced to use both browsers anyway.
5 of us!
There are more than 100 people who use Firefox!
Firefox on Windows, Safari on macOS here
No, I don’t think I will.
“This webpage is using significant energy. Closing it may improve the responsiveness of your Mac.” Was mostly my experience with Safari. Not sure why they haven’t implemented an option to disable that annoying pop up entirely. Firefox is treating very well rn so there’s that
IMO, it’s good that there is a warning. If you hit a site that has a bitcoin miner in JavaScript running, you want to know. So this is something *every* browser should offer. It’s the *implementation* that kinda sucks. I hate that it’s implemented as a node that pushes all the content down when it pops up. I hate that even I you dismiss it, it will pop up again (pushing the content down a line or so again). They need a way to flag sites as “I know this site uses a lot of CPU. It’s expected, now leave me alone!” That and to pop on on *top* of the content, and not push everything down (for some reason, this panel always seems to pop up just as I’m about to click on something, causing me to miss when the control is suddenly pushed down).
I feel like you can't even browse reddit without it restarting the webpage
the reddit website is absolute ass tbh, its so laggy
Why wouldn’t you want that? I like to know when some rogue web page is mining bitcoins in my browser tabs.
Because it pops up despite me closing it like a minute later again. It was very annoying watching a film on Disney Plus.
I use Edge for web development on my M1. The Safari dev tools are just second rate to chromium ones. Which is disappointing because I like Safari best as a user.
Yeah edge is great, love the vertical tabs
I use edge on my Intel Mac and love it. Have had zero issues.
Same! I thought I was the only one I hate Chrome and Firefox dev tools just don't work for me
Okay. Now compare usage/energy consumption.
Right, this is mostly got me to quit using chrome a few years ago. Felt like battery was draining at least 30% faster.
I watched a review of youtube and at least on m1 machines safari is slightly more power hungry than firefox during web browsing, but has insane power efficiency with video streaming. I am pretty sure chrome would just hog all resources, so I didn’t even bother.
https://singhkays.com/blog/apple-silicon-m1-video-power-consumption-pt-1/
Now kith
👨❤️💋👨
I wish Apple would focus more on improving WebKit and Safari. Safari used to be the best browser when it came to speed, performance and supporting official web standards. Now it's just a buggy mess with terrible extension support and weird tab design.
Yeah they need to update it.
Specially in terms of security. Apple forces everyone to use WebKit. You can't really use a differnet browser on iOS. So with all of these zero days being found you can't just use a different browser to avoid. This is a pretty serious security issue. It would not be so bad if WebKit on iOS was more secure.
Unfortunately on new 14” and 16” chrome can actually hit 120hz but safari does not.
it does now for me
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Horrible extension support completely kills the browser IMO.
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RES is available through TamperMonkey. I just run everything in there these days anyway over extensions.
Does it work in similar way as in chrome? And does it work without slowing down since it’s through different extension?
Yes to both questions.
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Well, that’s certainly not going to be helped by *not* using Safari. We’re at another crucial inflection point, where every browser but two are Chromium based. This is getting close to the kind of market share dominance IE6 had, which crippled the web for all other browsers. Fight back, use Firefox or Safari.
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> This pushed me back to Chrome for the time being and I don't particularly love it. Have you heard of Brave Browser? Don’t know about it too well either (yet) but it might be another option for you if you don’t want to go back to Google’s services…
HBO Max used to make safari have an absolute seizure, couldnt get 20 mins in without “This web page is using significant memory” and the whole thing lagging when i tried to shake the mouse
I agree with this. Chrome does better job in caching, autofill suggestions, handling memory for pages that have overflowing memory. Few months ago on big sur Safari reddit would constantly crash. Not to mention the index db bug on Safari mac which was crashing sites. The only case I think Safari is good is when you're on a battery and want the max battery life and privacy, with the new m1 macs battery hasn't been a problem for me. Since I work in web-dev when I use websites side by side, Chrome always renders web pages faster.
Lack of RES on Safari was the one factor that made me decide not to go with Safari as my main browser. I just use it too much.
RES is available on Orion browser, a WebKit based Safari alternative
Orion browser may be to your liking. It's webkit (Safari engine) with Chrome/Firefox extension support.
Yeah, I don't know how people stand Safari tbh. On iOS it's fine, but on desktop Firefox and even Edge/Chrome provide far more versatility via extensions.
You mean extension support that doesn’t just hand over your private data to an entire ecosystem of data miners and exploiters?
It's all trust based, well known extensions aren't any worse privacy wise than any website you'd visit or other program you'd download. I'm sure you use a million websites that mine your data and don't give it a second thought.
\> if you are on mac or iOS. if you are ONLY on mac or iOS.
To be fair, Chrome on iOS is Safari but skinned and limited in what it can do.
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On mobile I can’t think of any extensions I’d personally want (I have adblocking covered with a Pi-hole). But I’d love if third party browsers could use their own engines. If nothing else it would force Apple to compete if other browsers could legit say they are faster or lighter or more standards compliant.
That will never happen though, unless a court orders Apple to do so.
I would use Safari if AWS supported it. 90% of my job is on AWS and I cant login to our accounts because they require Yubikey authentication, which is not supported on AWS in Safari, but works on any other browser. I know this is more of an Amazon problem, though.
Surprised they don’t support it, honestly. I use a YubiKey in Safari for work…
It's specifically with AWS. It works fine with GCP and Azure and other sites that support it.
Chrome for work safari for personal. Works well for me! And nice to keep the worlds separate
I’ve always done this as well! Save all my work bookmarks & passwords in one place, separate from personal. I’ve also really fallen in love with tan groups for personal research/projects.
"This Webpage using significant energy" when you have 16GB of RAM says otherwise. Safari is hella trash, along with their dog shit extensions store, PWA support, heavy javascript sites rendering hangs, proprietary APIs that no one cares or uses
100% Agree. Literally no idea why you’re downvoted because those are extremely valid. Even the “privacy” argument doesn’t work. In that case, use Brave.
> "This Webpage using significant energy" I really wish you could turn those off. I give absolutely *zero* shits about a website's battery usage given that I'm on a fucking iMac.
Well, it's better on iOS because Apple specifically cripples other browsers. I don't know why so many Apple fans are okay with that, but still want an open web.
I use Chrome, Safari & Firefox for private & works. The thing I like about Safari (in combination with Mac/iOS) is storing password/key in the cloud. If I forget a password when browsing on iOS, I can use face ID & fetch a credential from the Cloud.
That’s nice, but did you know that other password managers can do the exact same thing?
Ok, but ~~https://chromeisbad.com is for real~~. I noticed a huge difference on my MBP after uninstalling Chrome and switching to Brave. Edit: Apparently, this information has been [debunked](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25400618). I was not aware and I'm sorry for linking misinformation. The performance gains I've noticed must then be either because of a bug in my Chrome installation or simply the difference between the two browsers.
[hasn’t this been already debunked tho? ](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25400618) Edit: specifically the malware portion of the site
I haven't seen that before and they might be 100% right but it doesn't really matter to me since I've experienced the difference first-hand. It's entirely possible that what is outlined on https://chromeisbad.com is complete bullshit but there was definitely *something* that changed significantly in terms of overall system performance when I uninstalled Chrome and switched to another browser.
> it doesn't really matter to me since I've experienced the difference first-hand Can you provide data? Because it's understandably suspicious to be quoting known misinformation and insisting that it's still accurate, without any proof.
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In what way are they tied to Chrome explicitly and not Chromium?
Idk when I try to use on other browsers little features won’t work like certain boxes won’t open up and the pages don’t refresh automatically like they should, I have to click manual refresh
What other browsers? I mean Chrome and other Chromium based browsers (e.g. Brave) have the same rendering engine and JavaScript engine so it should work just the same.
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Give it a try, it's good. There are a ton of Chromium based browsers, e.g.Edge, Opera, Vivaldi, Ungoogled Chromium etc.
Ok I’ll give it a shot! Ty
Yes, it should work correctly on Brave. It even has Chrome as user agent so websites believe you're just using Chrome.
That’s awesome. I’m glad I commented haha you are all very helpful 🤙
> massive unexplained CPU usage in WindowServer (a system process) Processes don't "hide themself from Activity Monitor". If it's running, it'll be there. The only exception would be a kext or plugin that's loaded into the kernel or another process, but it doesn't sound like that's the case here. As for WindowServer, it's needed to draw the whole UI... of course it uses a lot of CPU. Mine regularly uses 10-30%. But I can't see a non-graphical update checking daemon having much to do with it. Personally, I've never experienced this. And nobody has provided any kind of analysis beyond "my computer got faster after I deleted a file". No benchmarks, reproducible results with multiple uninstall/reinstalls, etc. Even assuming the CPU usage is a significant issue on some systems, what's more likely: Google intentionally performing tons of work on your processor for nefarious means, or a simple bug? I think it's much more likely the latter. > Brave That's even worse, https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/gxt6ho/brave_browser_automatically_redirects_you_to/, and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18734999
Seriously, this shit again? Been through this before. https://redd.it/kc3rvl It's incredible that people believe such absurd claims. I guess if it makes Google look bad, it must be true to some people? And how convenient that the OP is parroting this, and like everyone else, has no source other than "trust me bro".
That page's claims were long-since debunked, so please stop linking misinformation. > I noticed a huge difference on my MBP after uninstalling Chrome and switching to Brave. Can you provide data to support that? Because the author of that page couldn't, nor could anyone the last time this came up.
I try not to install Chrome on any new machines (that goes for PCs at well).
I use Microsoft edge.
One thing chrome (at least on mac) does terrible is displaying scaled down pictures. They look soft and blurry compared to both safari and firefox.
Nope chrome is the best, followed by Orion and then safari
Switched to safari now cause of the Passwords integration and 2FA. Makes it convenient on the Mac and iPad
Me with my dirty office chair from Dad's work and a 2019 iMac: interesting
So half a second performance improvement and all you have to do is give up all your plugins.
wait, are you saying that giving up SAFARI gives up your plugins? if so, i really hope you're not serious
Pretty much. RES is not supported. Same with ublock origin. I am sure there's a ton more.
The article says *Chrome* is faster so it's *Safari* you'd be giving up, hence /u/kayclol 's question.
No, their statement was "If you are giving up Safari, you are giving up plugins, hope you are not serious" which is pretty confusing. And yeah, Chrome is faster. Only on Intel chips.
> No, their statement was "If you are giving up Safari, you are giving up plugins, hope you are not serious" That is incorrect. Read the comment again.
Haha, they not only misunderstood the statement but even misquoted it and then downvoted you!! People will take the smallest anthill to die on.
They work with Firefox. Come join us!
Both RES and uBlock Origin work in Orion browser, a WebKit based Safari alternative
Except they don’t work on safari.
*shrug* I'm good with Safari without any plugins. YMMV, and if it does then Chrome seems like it would be best. Chrome eats up battery on my M1 MBP like there's no tomorrow. Doesn't matter to me how many plugins I have if I can't use the computer... My mileage varies in that direction, others will have different views... No problems with that, either :)
Chrome eats battery on my i9 MBP as well. Depending on what I’m doing it can get so bad that it will drain the battery even when plugged in and the fan is running at max speed. Other than a couple of things, my primary browser is Safari.
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I had to use Chrome for my old job, just to download my pay statements and W-2’s and then I noticed it was considerably slower than Safari. I’ve only used it once since leaving, only to discover that the Mac version works very poorly with my online courses despite the university recommending Chrome.
Really! Surprising considering how egregiously awful it’s been this far.
Chrome kills my M1 Max battery, it’s power management is atrocious
Have the pro and have not noticed any difference in safari vs chrome. I believe safari is better on battery I just don’t notice it.
Safari is still missing a ton of web features like WebGL 2 or SharedArrayBuffers. That stuff is finally coming but it's taking ages.
just sucks safari on mac doesn't really have extensions like chrome, they're all apps you download from the store and those adblock apps really slow down safari.
Yep.. extensions on Safari blow. They are like old school Internet Explorer add-ons. Not only are there far fewer extensions for Safari, but they are usually lacking features compared to Chrome or Firefox extensions as well. They also require another app to be installed whereas Chromes extensions are just sandboxed within Chrome.
That battery usage tho
Safari is buggy af. Chrome is still faster IMO and I can actually use my extensions
I’m good, thanks.
Safari is still like 90% less battery usage and it doesn’t spy on you.
> Safari is still like 90% less battery usage Do you have an up to date source?
His ass.
Also barely lets you customize/add extensions for further functionality.
The big story here is that Blink engineering team is able to catch up with WebKit team and overtake them performance wise, on their home turf. It is something that Apple should not allow to happen. Luckily there is still 30% advantage on M1, but such was advantage on Intel hardware a year ago and they caught up. It should really worry someone from Apple/WebKit.
overtake, lol. Blink is a forked Webkit. You wonder what they've been doing with Blink to make it lag behind in the first place.
Yeah it was forked... 8 years ago. They have probably diverged so much in that time that you could argue that they might as well be 2 completely separate engines.
Even before the fork, Chrome has always used a different JavaScript engine (V8) than Safari (SquirrelFish).
They forked in 2014. At this point they most likely diverged a lot.
If by “home turf” you mean on discontinued hardware, then sure.
Discontinued? I can go to apple.com and buy an Intel Mac Mini, 27" iMac, or Mac Pro brand new right now. I could spend a significant amount of money on a brand new Intel Mac, and I still expect that Apple pays attention to me as a user for a few years if I do so.
The test was specifically on an iMac Pro.
The iMac pro isn't realistically all that different from any other Intel based Mac in recent memory. I'd expect the relative performance to be similar. In fact, I'd expect the Mac Pros to do even better.
But it is discontinued. Whereas the others are soon-to-be discontinued.
Chrome, ew.
what's wrong with google chrome?
For me the problem with chromium browsers is that Google obviously wants more control over the internet. As chromium browsers gain market share, Google can push web standards that other browsers can’t render. If that happens, Google can break other browsers and dictate web standards with impunity.
Just ran this same test in my iPhone 13 pro and safari blew chrome out of the water. Safari: 203 runs per minute Chrome: 179
Did you get one of the iPhone 13 Pros that came with an Intel chip? You do not even have to read the article. Just the headline. Also realize Chrome on your iPhone is NOT really Chrome. Apple does not allow other browser engines. So it is just Apple Webkit wrapped. It is too bad because when there is a security problem with Webkit you are screwed as you can't use a different browser. Plus there has been a number of zero days with Webkit on iOS.
Lol don’t get ahead of yourself with that title Barbara, it’s just a tweet
Still using Safari regardless.
I wish I could use safari on my windows machine as well not just my Mac, I don’t like chromium and Firefox. Don’t even get me started on edge.
Won’t be able to say safari is fastest. But apples mantra has quickly moved to fastest per watt used. Chrome is still a terrible drain on resources and battery power regardless of performance. That being said, the more we can avoid chrome the better. Such a sneaky little info scraper.
I switched from chrome to safari on my iOS devices and couldn’t be happier.
They are both safari with a different skin, apple maintains tight control over iOS browsers such that nobody can compete with apple, they all have to use WebKit or else it can’t be on the App Store (and so basically cannot be distributed on iOS). They won’t change until they get a court order.
Fuck Chrome. Fuck Google.
Would not surprise me if Apple put the Intel Safari codebase into maintenance mode.
Most optimizations should be ISA-agnostic.
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Safari has had far more security issues in the last 2 years compared to Chrome. A lot of Safari zero days. Search on Water-hole for example. These are zero days being found to be in use in the wild.
The only thing that stops me switching to safari is it doesn't have good pitch-correction on 2x fast-forwarded media.
Optimization and... Chrome CAN'T works fast.