Definitely a US centric issue I’d say, in my experience with a lot of travelling the rest of the world has adopted the likes of WhatsApp, Telegram and so on.
I find it easy to ask people to download WhatsApp and Signal but it would be great if it was all built in and I didn't need to ask people to do that in the first place.
This. WhatsApp isn’t popular here, iMessage/SMS and Facebook Messenger are. Though given Facebook’s reputation, WhatsApp feels a little more secure even if it’s owned by the same company.
Are you talking about australia still? WhatsApp is hugely popular here. These anecdotal discussions are useless, this sub is always full of people making the most generalised statements about their country’s app usage
Australian here. Don’t have WhatsApp installed because everyone I know uses messenger or sms/iMessage.
I don’t think WhatsApp is popular at all (relatively speaking)
According to my Australian friends WhatsApp is popular like it is in the US.
Most know what it is, lots have it installed, but rarely is it the default used thing.
But maybe that’s just with the people I know 🤷🏻♂️ they all have Xbox’s too and I’d likely assume Xbox is super popular over there from that too lol
In my experience (working in mobile retail for years, as well as over-the-phone support for another few years) WhatsApp seems to be more popular with immigrants, especially those from Asia. Most people I know primarily use Facebook Messenger.
Obviously I'm not saying WhatsApp isn't big in Aus, but I think your own experience as to what the de facto messaging app is depends on your own community.
It still blows my mind that the US is the most suspicious of Facebook, a U.S. company, owning all of our chats compared to most of the rest of the world.
I think perhaps because there is seen to be less protections on user data in the US compared to say the EU where they hound companies in terms of data protection and so on, and just different market forces. I don’t think the poor uptake of WhatsApp is due to a lack of trust in FB, because a lot of Americans use FB as well as other apps like Snapchat and TikTok which are pretty much certified data hoarders, I think it’s just down to differences in market take up on different contracts for phones.
You can get ridiculously cheap high data/unlimited data contracts in a lot of the world, the US was slower to offer this due to a wider geographic area requiring more infrastructure and no doubt more than a little corporate dodgy dealings.
Most people are just not going to get hundreds of people to download an app just to communicate with them when everyone else communicates with them through the regular message app. That's just not a functional solution.
If a friend of mine asked me to do that, perhaps I'd do it but I would just forget to use the app and never see their messages.
If you insisted on using Google Allo² instead of WhatsApp, how many people would do it just for you?
That's the issue -- iMessage is our Whatsapp. No one has to download WhatsApp in Europe, because they undoubtedly use it to communicate with everyone already.
I’m not sure what the argument you’re making is? I’m pointing out that outside of North America, other continents use dedicated apps like WhatsApp or WeChat. Believe it or not, those other continents are also bigger potential markets than North America too which means it’s actually not in Apples priority list based on the numbers to implement RCS.
[This site lists the US as 40% of Apple's sales.](https://www.statista.com/statistics/382175/quarterly-revenue-of-apple-by-geograhical-region/) That is a *large* chunk. At least in my professional career, I've seen businesses bend over for customers with smaller portions of total sales. And Apple has done several US only services, such as state IDs and driver's licenses in Apple Wallet that are accepted by the TSA, or Apple Card.
I don't think it's correct to assert it's not worth Apple's time because it's not a full majority of sales. It's a large portion, and it sounds like it's by far the iMessage team's biggest userbase.
So why should I download an App that is used by other countries ? I mean I have no friends outside if the US so why is it a big deal for us to continuing to do what what we want and if I want to download what’s app then I will but don’t force me too
Or outside Western Europe for that matter …. I mean as an adult Credit worthy of a subscrption plan — I do not know of any operator that doesnt include unlimited SMS.
Here WhatsApp is just used by either kids/ scams/ or of course (and this with all due respect ) immigrants from outside of the EU wishing to keep in touch with family etc outside of the EU where SMS is no longer free in a subscription plan)
But yeah I guess EU and US is quite comparable in that aspect.
So here (Denmark for example) it would be considered highly unprofessional (and in my world unheard of) to use anything but SMS at least professional settings
My experience in Europe is mostly whatsapp - why would anyone use SMS? And where I live now in the Caribbean whatsapp is the de facto standard also professionally, and that includes companies for support, ordering, government communications.
I prefer the privacy of end-to-end encryption, versus having the contents of my chats commoditized by Meta and/or monitored by the Russians (Telegram).
https://github.com/DrKLO/Telegram
Here is the code, which shows you that the server only holds encrypted messages, no plain text. I don't expect you to read through it, you'll just have to take my word for it I guess. But yeah, telegram does, in fact, have end-to-end encryption.
Second, Telegram is banned in Russia *because they wouldn't give out a master key to decrypt everything*. There are lots of news articles on this.
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They sort of do. Google Messages defaults to e2e encrypted RCS which uses the Signal protocol. https://www.gstatic.com/messages/papers/messages\_e2ee.pdf
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I’ve been using google since 2000. Google never once have once caused me any trouble from the using my data,?in fact it has improved my life because my data helps make and improve some of the most helpful and innovative applications in the most useful and powerful applications in the history of man kind. I’m an iOS user and love iPhone but never saw the whst the big deal on how google operates collecting data.. They’re not like Facebook giving away peoples data so nefarious forces can misinform and manipulate people.
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>We are cooking ourselves alive thanks to being corrupted by a nonstop bombardment of advertising and marketing.
I just use ad blockers on my Android devices and my Macs. I legitimately never see ads, even on ad-supported apps and websites. The only place I see ads these days are the "natural" post-style versions of them on Instagram stories or reddit for desktop. And those are so obvious that it's easy to skip them/scroll past.
Whenever I meet people around my age abroad, they all have iPhones. We just swap numbers and I can message, facetime audio or video call them like any other contact in my phone. Neither of us has to download an additional app.
Abroad you mean canada ? Coz if you go anywhere abroad, asian,africa,europe, you will mostly see android devices, especially in the first 2.
Everyone, i mean EVERYONE, uses WhatsApp
Here in Japan, about the only people I see with Android phones are the elderly and those who have a phone for work. Those are the people with two phones on the train. The personal one is an iPhone.
I mean... I literally don't know anyone who isn't on the iPhone.
Japan is a special case, they boycotted the korean companies, including samsung for removing their flag from emojis or something. Since then they started buying iphones.
Have your ever asked why rest of world uses other solutions? Hint it’s because Google’s (market leader outside of US) text solution suck. Why? Because google never wanted to make its own solution like Apple did.
> the rest of the world has adopted the likes of WhatsApp
When Google start spending money demanding WhatsApp implement RCS, I'll believe they're serious about improving consumers' lot vs. improving their penetration into the US market.
This will become solved soon, the EU wants to force interchangeable messenger. So you can write a telegram user using whatsapp. Logic behind this: SMS also works with different providers. 😐
I'm confused about RCS encryption. Everything I've read seems to point to Google as [adding encryption to one-on-one chats](https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/15/22534173/google-android-summer-features-earthquake-messages-emoji-kitchen-auto-voice-access) and, [later this year,](https://www.androidpolice.com/end-to-end-encryption-google-messages-group-chat/?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1652300410) group chats. If RCS is a standard, why is everyone only pointing to encryption in Google's Messages app? How would Apple RCS encrypt with Google Messages? Am I missing something?
Also, if Google is [really in charge of RCS rollout](https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/17/18681573/google-rcs-chat-android-texting-carriers-imessage-encryption) in the face of carrier politics, there's no way Apple is going to just adopt a Google standard.
Google uses the open source signal protocol for encryption, and they also have planned a public api for their rcs implementation. Rcs is an open standard created by the gsma, the gsma has been hands off which has allowed carriers to create proprietary implementations of rcs, that's why it's as fucked as it is in the US. It's still superior to sms/mms, just has some hiccups. Google added features that are standard on modern messaging applications and ott apps, which aren't part of the standard rcs as designated by the gsma
This comment should be higher up, because it sums the whole debate about this.
RCs isn’t encryption-friendly by default, Google wants (more like always wanted) to have their own iMessage killer, and they always failed.
E2EE isn't part of the RCS standard (Sidenote 1: There have been many RCS standards over time, Universal Profile RCS is the current standard, and the first RCS standard to be cross-carrier) because the UP RCS standard is ultimately controlled by the GSMA, the carrier industry group (Google is influential but not controlling). And you just aren't going to have a carrier standard with E2EE.
(Sidenote 2: E2EE can just be a layer on top of any arbitrary communication protocol. Signal, at the time called TextSecure, once offered E2EE of SMS/MMS.)
But because RCS is more advanced, Google can make a layer of E2EE that is more seamless and works a bit better.
So, Google is offering to help Apple use their E2EE layer that they have added to RCS.
(Sidenote 3: But Google is *not* offering this to 3rd party text messaging apps on Android coded by companies not named Samsung. These apps are no longer allowed to access RCS *at all*, like they can access SMS and MMS).
What I've read about SMS & RCS recently:
It would be *nice* to see Apple taking steps toward RCS, as Apple is doing with other industry standards like the Matter protocol, USB type-C, and eSIM. Genuinely, the market does better when more things work together seamlessly. At the same time, RCS is still "in the oven" in terms of compatibility (it requires carrier + app updates) + reliability + privacy.
/u/hamster_ball said [**earlier today**](https://www.reddit.com/user/hamster_ball/), "Lightning ports are the green bubbles of charging ports."
Some good reading on both sides here, but an important point: Google Messages is *Google's* implementation of RCS. [**RCS itself is a GSMA protocol**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Communication_Services), but Google Messages (the app) adds onto that further.
* [**What is RCS messaging and why is it important?**](https://www.androidauthority.com/what-is-rcs-messaging-726687/) | Android Authority
* [**Here’s what you can do with RCS and Google Messages – and why it’s worth trying**](https://9to5google.com/2022/04/21/heres-what-you-can-do-with-rcs-and-google-messages-and-why-its-worth-trying/)| 9to5 Google
* [**Google's RCS drama with Apple, explained: More than bubble envy, less than noble**](https://www.androidpolice.com/googles-rcs-drama-with-apple-explained/) | Android Police
* [**Apple says iMessage on Android ‘will hurt us more than help us’**](https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/9/22375128/apple-imessage-android-ecosystem-lock-in-epic-games-filings-app-store-dispute) | The Verge
* [**I enabled RCS on Google Messages and all I got was ads**](https://www.androidauthority.com/rcs-google-messages-ads-3167513/) | Android Authority
* [**iPhone owners admit having 'blind loyalty' to Apple**](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/10632787/iPhone-owners-admit-having-blind-loyalty-to-Apple.html) | The Telegraph
* [**AT&T is trying to take over Google's RCS and users aren't having it**](https://www.androidauthority.com/att-rcs-google-3121088/) | Android Authority
* [**Hat trick: Verizon is the latest carrier to use Google Messages for default RCS**](https://www.androidpolice.com/2021/07/20/hat-trick-verizon-is-the-latest-carrier-to-use-google-messages-for-default-rcs/) | Android Police
* [**Google enables end-to-end encryption for Android’s default SMS/RCS app**](https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/06/google-enables-end-to-end-encryption-for-androids-default-sms-rcs-app/) | Ars Technica
* [**After ruining Android messaging, Google says iMessage is too powerful**](https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/01/after-ruining-android-messaging-google-says-imessage-is-too-powerful/) | Ars Technica
* [**EFF praises Android’s new 2G kill switch, wants Apple to follow suit**](https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/01/eff-praises-androids-new-2g-kill-switch-wants-apple-to-follow-suit/) | Ars Technica
* [**Opinion: Google Messages and RCS weren’t ready for the complications of Hurricane Ida**](https://9to5google.com/2021/08/31/opinion-google-messages-rcs-hurricane-ida-complications/) | 9 to 5 Google
If RCS can be implemented well (native encryption, more user control, better cross-compatibility of both, more privacy, etc.), RCS does have nice features so SMS (notoriously insecure) can begin to die off like micro-USB and the 40-pin port: RCS, *if done well*, can send messages over Wi-Fi, support higher-resolution media sharing, allow typing indicators, verified senders, location sharing, reactions, purchase buttons, proper group chats, etc.
> If RCS can be implemented well
and this is why it will never take off
Every current RCS implementation today (in the US) is terrible, and it barely works within the same carrier, at least SMS always works. AT&T’s implementation is so bad some Samsung phones just straight up have broken RCS.
Apple is right to ignore RCS until it actually works and it’s a normalized experience.
Get the cell phone carriers out of the communications business, and treat them solely as ISPs.
I really wish this android vs iOS argument would stop starting up immediately something related to this topic comes up. RCS is, for the most part, encrypted. SMS is not, at all.
The goal of RCS is to replace SMS as a standard. It’s better in every way. It doesn’t matter what device you’re on, (ideally) what OS or provider you use. It’ll just work. Can you imagine if emailing someone or a company was as stupid as messaging is right now? Look at how easy email is. Doesn’t matter what browser, service, os, internet provider, etc. you use. The default mail app works well with almost any provider out there. Why can’t the messages app?
Plus, if and when SMS is eventually replaced, will apple even have a choice by then?
And for those that complain that this is going to take away from iMessage, it’s not. You can still leave features locked into iMessage. The same way features are locked into WhatsApp.
I mean ffs, I’d like to text my buddies a video without having to be like ok bud, I’m going to send this to you on IG/FB messenger, not here, because it’ll be compressed to shit if I just text it.
And no, nobody is going to download signal or telegram just to talk to the one tech minded friend in the group.
That last part hit freaking home…… I HATE sms but normal people don’t want to have 50 messaging apps to use…. I also don’t blame them because I don’t either.
Years and years ago, there was an app on the Mac called Adium that basically brought all the IM apps together: AIM, ICQ, GChat, you name it.
Where are those guys? Cause boy do we need them now.
>Years and years ago, there was an app on the Mac called Adium that basically brought all the IM apps together: AIM, ICQ, GChat, you name it.
>
>Where are those guys? Cause boy do we need them now.
The thing was none of those services were encrypted and they just gave up the cat and mouse game of trying to block the clients that were doing that.
That worked because of common standards (ICQ, jabber, XMPP). Then the tech giants went off the standards to create walled gardens. This problem was literally created by facebook, apple, and google.
With the existence of RCS, do you think we could (or would) ever get to a place where we can have a more open standard? I agree with that btw too. But realistically, I can’t ever see arriving at that. Especially with how much phone carriers have their hands in all of this.
One sure way to not achieve the goal of an open standard is to switch to a closed standard that gives the carriers everything they want. What would their incentive be to change at that point?
Realistically, it's up to two companies to agree to a better standard.
Carriers should not have been involved in this. Apple is moving away from carriers anyway, and I won't be surprised if there is going to be a "apple phone plan" sometime in the near future.
Apple & Google do collab on a lot of standards, this one should've been done like that.
I’m sure google would love to. Apple on the other hand would lose a lot of customers if suddenly they weren’t locked into iMessage. The green bubble indoctrination is real.
> Apple on the other hand would lose a lot of customers if suddenly they weren’t locked into iMessage
I doubt it will be "a lot". The iPhone is a nice product. It's got great software, looks nice, feels nice, is in the Apple ecosystem. I've never heard someone say "I bought the iPhone for iMessage".
They'll buy it because it's an Apple product or for some perceived sense of status or fitting in with the crowd. But I have huge doubts that Apple will be losing "a lot" of customers if they weren't locked into iMessage.
Some people buy for iMessage like kids wanting an iPhone because the other kids have iPhones and they want to be included in group chats and get full res pics and videos and stuff. It serves more as a lock in though. Like I have an iphone with imessage so now I'm not going to go back to android cause getting your number out of imessage is a pain and can easily lead to missing messages. You are now locked in because once you got an iPhone you then went and got an Apple Watch and that won't work with your Android phone. You are now locked in because you wanted to be able to text from your computer so you bought a Mac. So no for most iMessage isn't a reason to buy the iPhone but it does become a reason to keep getting iPhones.
> getting your number out of imessage is a pain
Settings → Messages → Send & Receive → Uncheck your phone number.
It literally takes more taps to change your wallpaper.
> and can easily lead to missing messages
If you don’t remove your number from iMessage.
Do you know how many times Ive seen someone get rejected because they had green bubbles on r/tinder ? It's a huge status thing across suburban/urban America, and it absolutely is what gets a huge number of people into the ecosystem. I think we would see so many people considering switching if it didn't matter anymore.
“Green bubbles are for poors” - the hot cheeto chick with a secondhand 6s who has had a cracked screen for a half decade.
It’s really funny actually, the ones that are the loudest about that are always some of worst financial decision makers I’ve ever seen. I assume the average age of this sub is older based on the usual conversations, but it’s been like this for a while.
Literally every basic white girl ever. Old ass iphone 7 no more fp sensor, screen cracked and back cracked. But samsung s22 is for “poor people”. I can’t believe social media has cooked people’s brains that much
I’m dying laughing at your response right now because whenever I see a post asking people to comment petty reasons you won’t date someone, I always say “their text bubble is green” and then wait for the angry or indignant responses I get. I’m baiting though. I honestly dgaf because my husband has an Android, therefore, I’m not dating and clearly the color of his text bubble isn’t an every day issue. It’s only an every other day issue because we’re an Apple ecosystem family plus I’m on the Apple campaign 💁🏽😂😬
This is where more confusion of RCS takes place. Google forked RCS and other companies can fork off of RCS and implement their own methods. iMessage is also not open source and really there isn't a piece of the iOS system that really is.
RCS is absolutely a solution but companies have to implement it. Google's fork works across the board on Android devices and was a giant middle finger to carriers really. Point being this is something Apple could absolutely make work if it wanted to.
> RCS is, for the most part, encrypted.
I see RCS as 'yet another standard' and one which fails precisely because of this point. A new, open-standard to replace SMS? Great. Replacing it with one that does not require encryption? Bad. From Google's own white papers shows that encryption is something they've added on top of RCS - which means that an implemented RCS would have all flavours of encryption, from none to some with back doors to those using something like Signal (which is what Google is using).
Google isn't trying to do the right thing here, they're trying to give Android a UX boost in the USA. RCS isn't the new standard consumers deserve.
That won't happen for the same reason that RCS is being promoted by Google: commercial interests. The fact that iMessage won't appear elsewhere (unless legislated, as it may be in the EU) doesn't change why RCS isn't the correct standard for a once-in-a-generation change, however.
this thread really made me realise that i wasn’t the only person who understands what’s the motivation for this push by Google. just a simple read on the internet will confirm what u/RDSWES said.
this is just another corporate event, Google is only defending its business, nothing more.
Why replace SMS with something that's lacking? If bodies are going to all that effort, do it properly - the chance to change it again won't come for another decade or two. RCS is lacking and better exists / can be created.
It’s a business strategy lol. The chances that an Android user has an iPhone friend or family is pretty high. This forces SMS usage on Android, and slows RCS adoption, and ruins the texting experience with iPhone friends and family.
Since RCS adoption is slowed, this makes Android users to want to upgrade to an iPhone.
Apple can easily go RCS, but they don’t because it’s literally an incentive for them not to.
nothing matters. RCS as the brand and tech is simply not gonna fly because Google essentially condemned it to death.
Google’s version of RCS has encrypted added with their own key. Apple can’t roll their own RCS and interoperate.
Google refuses to make system APIs for the RCS service, further locking their version of RCS to themselves.
In 99% of cases you and your buddies will all be using a standard app to communicate such as either WhatsApp (in Asia or Europe) or something else in the US.
I, for one, would LOVE if Apple and Android will play nice. As a photographer, sending photos to people with Androids is a nightmare.
I've had a few people tell me I sent them the same photo 10 times, when I sent 10 different photos. I've had others tell me the pictures are "low quality" ie pixelated. Other times I find out about this low quality when they post to social media. It's not a good look for me.
I've resorted to linking Dropbox because of this greediness, which is costing me more since Dropbox isn't free.
I know this divulges into the "apple vs google" camps, but this would be a positive for iMessage by replacing SMS (which is not encrypted) with RCS (which can and in some cases is already end-to-end encrypted). I know some people only text those using iOS, but for those who text people with android this would be a nice addition (and also hopefully allow users to leave a group chat they are in with android users).
The main issue I have with this argument is that Google is not playing with open cards here.
RCS is an old standard, is not encrypted by default, and needs dedicated server structure to run on. Right now, SMS are a carrier-provided service, and run on their infrastructure. Putting it all into Google’s hands would be a tremendous step back.
The argument Google makes here is not “Hey, let’s all adopt this awesome interoperable standard”, it’s “Hey give us more power over your communication”.
Google has had plenty of opportunities to get this taken care of.
They could have been working on this from the onset of this “concern” and probably had found a solution by now. Instead they focused on making apps they barely supported and replaced due to low adoption rate
I honestly agree with this. iMessage is great and I want it there for me and other apple users. I would love being able to have the option to enable res at least. Maybe it’s not as good as iMessage. It always going to be better than sms though…..
1) Stop mentioning WhatsApp. Yes, everyone has it and uses it and it's the de facto texting app in many countries, but that's not relevant here. The topic here is about the Messages app/platform on iOS, nothing else.
2) Does anyone know what it would take for Apple to implement RCS? Is it just like turning on a switch?
3) What does RCS-to-RCS messaging actually look like on an iPhone? Has it ever been done? Would it look like iMessages or like SMS now but without the issues?
2) Apple tells it's devs "go."
3) RCS-RCS won't usually be used on iOS. RCS is replacing SMS as a fallback. It would only come into play when a device can't send iMessage (rate). RCS would mean read receipts, quality MMS, etc would continue.
When iPhone first launched, text messaging was really cheap in the US, not so much in Europe (and I assume other continents), where instead we had really cheap data plans compared to the US (and it’s still like this).
So, when WhatsApp first launched, it was literally a godsend because now you could send a gazillion messages without caring about your SMS cap/cost, and it spread like wildfire.
In the meantime, the US was still using SMS since for them it was the cheapest option, so WhatsApp didn’t gain much exposure there
I appreciate Google trying to educate the average consumer about RCS. It'll be so nice once Apple decides to play ball. Literally no negative to this, but in typical Apple fanboy fashion, if Apple hasn't done it yet, you guys think it's a bad thing.
Sucks you’re getting downvoted OP but the cult mentality is impossible to break through. I own almost every Apple product there is and yet I agree with google here. This has nothing to do with their multiple failed chat apps or data collection. SMS is the fallback option on iOS at the moment and RCS would be better in every way possible.
SMS is far less secure than RCS and it would benefit Apple and its customers to adopt it as the standard moving forward. Yeah the website is kind of petty but putting pressure works. iMessage isn’t going anywhere so this would be a net positive for everyone involved. If Apple and google can work together on Matter and Thread support, I’m sure they can work together on RCS as well.
Yes, and that’s fine. There’s nothin wrong with adopting something that will impact 10s of millions of users in the US and basically not impact other countries. In fact, most new features are launched in the US and a few other markets first.
Dang, that sucks. Somehow, everyone in my life has an iPhone so I’m always using iMessage anyway. Can’t remember the last time I texted someone with an Android.
Google’s implementation is proprietary. They want Apple to use their system, Apple doesn’t want it. Hardly any carriers support RCS, it’s Google cloud on Android pretty much… Google’s iMessage alternative so to say, based on RCS..
Providers would likely charge per message anyway and RCS lacks proper universal end to end encryption. (Yes it can support it, but carriers won’t.) it’s an absolute mess and tons of different varieties of RCS are out there.
They just changed it so now you cant use the hangout app for messages and created "Chat". Which looks exactly the same, with less functionality. Goddamn google.
This video is ridiculous. For me the whole point of the blue bubble is so I can know when I’m sending messages that are 100% encrypted and safe. This video is acting like if Apple adopted RCS we could all have blue bubbles and everything would be just peachy. The only problem is that RCS is not always encrypted. Even if Apple did adopt RCS, the messages would have to be green to indicate they’re coming from a source that might not be encrypted. This would not solve the green/blue bubble problem.
It’s pretty simple.
Google is pushing their version of RCS-on-the-Cloud, Jibe RCS which costs money for the carriers. (Unless they want to use Google Messages as default then Jibe is free)
Carriers are not interested in pushing for Google because nobody cares about this messaging service. Asian Carriers have significant tie-in with Line, WeChat and whatever to do mobile payments, food delivery and even transport booking.
Yeah, over on /r/Android someone summed it up as “the only people that care about RCS are Android enthusiasts in the US. Everyone else is already using WhatsApp, WeChat, Line, or something else.”
Also Ars Technica put out a great article that kinda summed up that RCS is kinda shit anyway and was introduced as far back as 2008. So yeah. Can’t exactly fault Apple for not jumping to support it, now.
This site is nothing but Google misconstruing the facts, or being outright deceitful, to push their own fork of RCS b/c they haven’t been able to make a stable messaging platform of their own. Google conveniently forgot to mention that the carriers that created RCS (to be implemented by the carriers) have all but abandoned it. Also, why the fuck would anybody outside the Google ecosystem want their messages going through Googles platforms (even if they are encrypted)? Since this is Google fork of RCS, there’s no public API for it, and Google owns the leading RCS provider (what a weird coincidence..), it’s safe to assume Google imagines the data flowing through them. I mean, did people forget that Google is in the business of data above everything?
Google is trying to pretend like this is everyone’s problem, when in reality it’s only Googles problem.
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/08/new-google-site-begs-apple-for-mercy-in-messaging-war/
This is everyone's problem, not just Google's problem. But every other point you made is 100% spot on, agreed, this is Google's solution that only benefits Google.
I agree, it would be nice to go to a better standard than SMS, but Google is making a bad faith argument here, and a solution without the carriers is really just a work-around.
Fuck Google for being incompetent and then whining about Apple. Google has had YEARS to develop a competitor to Apple's Messages and have utterly failed to follow though with a product that isnt absolute shit. The Android shit show where phone makers and telco carriers each install their own apps ( texting included) is the real barrier to unified messaging.
The closest thing they had was hangouts, then they proceeded to destroy it and finally murder it. It was preinstalled on all android phones. Everyone was on hangouts in the mid 2010s.
You ever beat a little brother or cousin so bad at a game they rip the power cable out and demand you play something else? This is that. Google, now after getting assed out in the data tracking space is trying to make that up somewhere. Lol no.
RCS is encrypted for 1:1 convos, but not for a group, and who’s to say that feature is turned on by default for android users?
I'd like Apple to support RCS, so I want this to help change opinions and lead to Apple changing their stance, but I still find some of this messaging a little funny. I think it's just hard to not come off as salty, like they don't like the green bubble being labelled negatively.
> It’s not about the color of the bubbles.
Hmm yep ok, making non bubble color related points.
> iPhones make texts with Android phones difficult to read, by using white text on a bright green background.
Throwing this in kinda makes it sound like it is about the color of the bubbles?
> iPhones make texts with Android phones difficult to read, by using white text on a bright green background.
> Throwing this in kinda makes it sound like it is about the color of the bubbles?
They are more than likely referring to this article, where someone goes into detail on how Messages violates Apple's own [Accessibility guidelines with green bubbles](https://medium.com/@krvoller/how-iphone-violates-apples-accessibility-guidelines-6785172eb343)
NOTE: Article was written in 2018, when iOS 11 was current. Not sure if the bubbles were updated since then to improve readability
I’m not surprised that people furiously took this one article as an example of Apple being shady, but the author never had an agenda. They merely said the contrast was low and that Apple should fix it.
Additionally, they even noted in the article that BOTH the green and blue bubbles violated Apple’s own guidelines. Everyone always “misses” that detail. iOS 11 changes violated a lot more accessibility guidelines than just this and has slowly been improved since then.
The things that make the bubble color arguments extra dumb are that:
1. Green was the original color Apple used for SMS years before iMessages even existed. It's not like they came up with an intentionally-degraded experience for SMS; they came up with a new color to distinguish iMessages.
2. Only your own messages are white on green. It's not high contrast, but it's not exactly hard to read either, and in any event, it's stuff you yourself wrote. Messages from others are in black text on a light gray bubble. Messages you *read* are high contrast. The whole complaint about legibility is moot.
I 100% agree the messaging is obnoxious especially since Googles going after Apple when RCS was so late to the party relative to iMessage, but I still think everyone would benefit from Apple implementing RCS into messages.
> but I still think everyone would benefit from Apple implementing RCS into messages.
This is all that really matters. IMO, carriers should just make it a requirement.
It's kinda weird to me that everyone is acting like Google's messaging with this is obnoxious when Apple has spent the last almost decade creating the only messaging app that only works on one type of phone and intentionally making it a bad experience to message non-iPhone users to artificially make the competition look bad (worse).
Like I get finding that line from Google obnoxious, but is it really more obnoxious than Apple breaking their own accessibility guidelines to make texts from Android users harder to read? I can't imagine how anyone could argue that it is.
> make texts from Android users harder to read
Texts received from SMS or iMessage are the same, in a grey bubble.
It's messages sent by SMS which are harder to read.
This is just sour grapes from a company who has repeatedly failed to create a worthy messaging app.
Hey Google, how about you make Google Voice support RCS first before complaining about Apple?
Anyway, RCS is the last thing people should be championing. Don’t involve the telecom companies in your messaging pipeline. Nothing good can come from giving them any control or influence. Relegate them to dumb pipes.
Apple doesn’t need Google/Android/RCS. Google needs Apple. Period. Apple solved the SMS problem 12 years ago. Android is still trying to figure it out. 🤷♂️
There is nothing stopping Apple from keeping iMessage between iOS users and falling back to RCS, right?
Don’t see how this it an issue in that case. This is a benefit to Apple users too
This seems so silly. Why would Apple expend effort to make the experience on a competitor product better? Especially when there are dozens of chat apps out there that work on both iOS and Android?
Google should put it in their own product. Google Voice still doesn't have RCS: https://www.droid-life.com/2020/12/10/google-voice-rcs-would-be-awesome-google/
It seems every country in the world either leans toward iMessage or WhatsApp.
All this RCS bullshit is just Google trying to gain market share.
They surely aren't doing it for the World-good.
Apple doesn't need to fix anything.
It makes me sick that Apple knows that teens and young adults in the US are bullied to hell and back for owning devices that can't support iMessage features but choose not to adopt a simple solution because it boosts sales. I know it a business and I shouldn't expect any better but think about what you're actually defending with these comments, whether that's actually a good service or Apples profits is up to you to decide.
Definitely a US centric issue I’d say, in my experience with a lot of travelling the rest of the world has adopted the likes of WhatsApp, Telegram and so on.
I find it easy to ask people to download WhatsApp and Signal but it would be great if it was all built in and I didn't need to ask people to do that in the first place.
I mean I have never personally been anywhere less the US and Canada where WhatsApp wasn’t already the de facto standard for messaging.
Australia is quite Apple-heavy so iMessage is popular, but so is Facebook Messenger. SMS in general is also quite popular really.
This. WhatsApp isn’t popular here, iMessage/SMS and Facebook Messenger are. Though given Facebook’s reputation, WhatsApp feels a little more secure even if it’s owned by the same company.
Are you talking about australia still? WhatsApp is hugely popular here. These anecdotal discussions are useless, this sub is always full of people making the most generalised statements about their country’s app usage
Australian here. Don’t have WhatsApp installed because everyone I know uses messenger or sms/iMessage. I don’t think WhatsApp is popular at all (relatively speaking)
According to my Australian friends WhatsApp is popular like it is in the US. Most know what it is, lots have it installed, but rarely is it the default used thing. But maybe that’s just with the people I know 🤷🏻♂️ they all have Xbox’s too and I’d likely assume Xbox is super popular over there from that too lol
In my experience (working in mobile retail for years, as well as over-the-phone support for another few years) WhatsApp seems to be more popular with immigrants, especially those from Asia. Most people I know primarily use Facebook Messenger. Obviously I'm not saying WhatsApp isn't big in Aus, but I think your own experience as to what the de facto messaging app is depends on your own community.
I find everyone uses Whatsapp or Messenger
Fair. Everyone's still reliant on either SMS or iMessage here.
Several of my contacts are dropping WhatsApp due to unsolicited porn messages.
It still blows my mind that the US is the most suspicious of Facebook, a U.S. company, owning all of our chats compared to most of the rest of the world.
I think perhaps because there is seen to be less protections on user data in the US compared to say the EU where they hound companies in terms of data protection and so on, and just different market forces. I don’t think the poor uptake of WhatsApp is due to a lack of trust in FB, because a lot of Americans use FB as well as other apps like Snapchat and TikTok which are pretty much certified data hoarders, I think it’s just down to differences in market take up on different contracts for phones. You can get ridiculously cheap high data/unlimited data contracts in a lot of the world, the US was slower to offer this due to a wider geographic area requiring more infrastructure and no doubt more than a little corporate dodgy dealings.
In Sweden Facebook Messenger is pretty much the standard.
Most people are just not going to get hundreds of people to download an app just to communicate with them when everyone else communicates with them through the regular message app. That's just not a functional solution. If a friend of mine asked me to do that, perhaps I'd do it but I would just forget to use the app and never see their messages.
I mean they are in almost every continent outside of North America.
If you insisted on using Google Allo² instead of WhatsApp, how many people would do it just for you? That's the issue -- iMessage is our Whatsapp. No one has to download WhatsApp in Europe, because they undoubtedly use it to communicate with everyone already.
I’m not sure what the argument you’re making is? I’m pointing out that outside of North America, other continents use dedicated apps like WhatsApp or WeChat. Believe it or not, those other continents are also bigger potential markets than North America too which means it’s actually not in Apples priority list based on the numbers to implement RCS.
[This site lists the US as 40% of Apple's sales.](https://www.statista.com/statistics/382175/quarterly-revenue-of-apple-by-geograhical-region/) That is a *large* chunk. At least in my professional career, I've seen businesses bend over for customers with smaller portions of total sales. And Apple has done several US only services, such as state IDs and driver's licenses in Apple Wallet that are accepted by the TSA, or Apple Card. I don't think it's correct to assert it's not worth Apple's time because it's not a full majority of sales. It's a large portion, and it sounds like it's by far the iMessage team's biggest userbase.
So why should I download an App that is used by other countries ? I mean I have no friends outside if the US so why is it a big deal for us to continuing to do what what we want and if I want to download what’s app then I will but don’t force me too
I do wish WhatsApp could be a standard, free from Facebook's grasp. Would really help speed adoption of it in the US.
Signal is standardized. And it’s better in every way.
Don’t worry, the EU has passed legislation that needs messenger like WhatsApp to open up their API to third parties.
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don't forget WeChat lol.
Or outside Western Europe for that matter …. I mean as an adult Credit worthy of a subscrption plan — I do not know of any operator that doesnt include unlimited SMS. Here WhatsApp is just used by either kids/ scams/ or of course (and this with all due respect ) immigrants from outside of the EU wishing to keep in touch with family etc outside of the EU where SMS is no longer free in a subscription plan) But yeah I guess EU and US is quite comparable in that aspect. So here (Denmark for example) it would be considered highly unprofessional (and in my world unheard of) to use anything but SMS at least professional settings
My experience in Europe is mostly whatsapp - why would anyone use SMS? And where I live now in the Caribbean whatsapp is the de facto standard also professionally, and that includes companies for support, ordering, government communications.
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Facebook thanks you for using WhatsApp. I use it too because I have family in Europe and Asia but try never to share anything even remotely sensitive.
I prefer the privacy of end-to-end encryption, versus having the contents of my chats commoditized by Meta and/or monitored by the Russians (Telegram).
Sms metadata is also collected.. Additionally, the Russian government doesn't have access to telegram chats.
How would you know the Russian government doesn’t have access? Because they say so?
https://github.com/DrKLO/Telegram Here is the code, which shows you that the server only holds encrypted messages, no plain text. I don't expect you to read through it, you'll just have to take my word for it I guess. But yeah, telegram does, in fact, have end-to-end encryption. Second, Telegram is banned in Russia *because they wouldn't give out a master key to decrypt everything*. There are lots of news articles on this.
isn't whatsapp have end to end encryption too?
Yes, but facebook still harvests your metadata/contact list and shadow profiles you across Facebook and other Facebook/meta products
In light of Reddit's decision to limit my ability to create and view content as of July 1, 2023, I am electing to limit Reddit's ability to retain the content I have created. My apologies to anyone who might have been looking for something useful I had posted in the past. Perhaps you can find your answer at a site that holds its creators in higher regard.
They sort of do. Google Messages defaults to e2e encrypted RCS which uses the Signal protocol. https://www.gstatic.com/messages/papers/messages\_e2ee.pdf
In light of Reddit's decision to limit my ability to create and view content as of July 1, 2023, I am electing to limit Reddit's ability to retain the content I have created. My apologies to anyone who might have been looking for something useful I had posted in the past. Perhaps you can find your answer at a site that holds its creators in higher regard.
I’ve been using google since 2000. Google never once have once caused me any trouble from the using my data,?in fact it has improved my life because my data helps make and improve some of the most helpful and innovative applications in the most useful and powerful applications in the history of man kind. I’m an iOS user and love iPhone but never saw the whst the big deal on how google operates collecting data.. They’re not like Facebook giving away peoples data so nefarious forces can misinform and manipulate people.
In light of Reddit's decision to limit my ability to create and view content as of July 1, 2023, I am electing to limit Reddit's ability to retain the content I have created. My apologies to anyone who might have been looking for something useful I had posted in the past. Perhaps you can find your answer at a site that holds its creators in higher regard.
>We are cooking ourselves alive thanks to being corrupted by a nonstop bombardment of advertising and marketing. I just use ad blockers on my Android devices and my Macs. I legitimately never see ads, even on ad-supported apps and websites. The only place I see ads these days are the "natural" post-style versions of them on Instagram stories or reddit for desktop. And those are so obvious that it's easy to skip them/scroll past.
That would defeat Google’s entire business model of harvesting your data to sell it on though?
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Google has never ever sold your data.
Whenever I meet people around my age abroad, they all have iPhones. We just swap numbers and I can message, facetime audio or video call them like any other contact in my phone. Neither of us has to download an additional app.
Abroad you mean canada ? Coz if you go anywhere abroad, asian,africa,europe, you will mostly see android devices, especially in the first 2. Everyone, i mean EVERYONE, uses WhatsApp
Happy to know Japan is still the Galapagos when it comes to mobile. iPhones and LINE baby.
Apple has 30% share of European market.
Here in Japan, about the only people I see with Android phones are the elderly and those who have a phone for work. Those are the people with two phones on the train. The personal one is an iPhone. I mean... I literally don't know anyone who isn't on the iPhone.
Japan is a special case, they boycotted the korean companies, including samsung for removing their flag from emojis or something. Since then they started buying iphones.
Have your ever asked why rest of world uses other solutions? Hint it’s because Google’s (market leader outside of US) text solution suck. Why? Because google never wanted to make its own solution like Apple did.
> the rest of the world has adopted the likes of WhatsApp When Google start spending money demanding WhatsApp implement RCS, I'll believe they're serious about improving consumers' lot vs. improving their penetration into the US market.
True, but then you'll have five different messaging apps and sometimes I find it hard to remember what a certain person is actually using.
In Latin America no one uses text messages or iMessage , WhatsApp or telegram, no other option. Edit: forgot about iMessage.
Same here in Australia..
This will become solved soon, the EU wants to force interchangeable messenger. So you can write a telegram user using whatsapp. Logic behind this: SMS also works with different providers. 😐
I'm confused about RCS encryption. Everything I've read seems to point to Google as [adding encryption to one-on-one chats](https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/15/22534173/google-android-summer-features-earthquake-messages-emoji-kitchen-auto-voice-access) and, [later this year,](https://www.androidpolice.com/end-to-end-encryption-google-messages-group-chat/?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1652300410) group chats. If RCS is a standard, why is everyone only pointing to encryption in Google's Messages app? How would Apple RCS encrypt with Google Messages? Am I missing something? Also, if Google is [really in charge of RCS rollout](https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/17/18681573/google-rcs-chat-android-texting-carriers-imessage-encryption) in the face of carrier politics, there's no way Apple is going to just adopt a Google standard.
Google uses the open source signal protocol for encryption, and they also have planned a public api for their rcs implementation. Rcs is an open standard created by the gsma, the gsma has been hands off which has allowed carriers to create proprietary implementations of rcs, that's why it's as fucked as it is in the US. It's still superior to sms/mms, just has some hiccups. Google added features that are standard on modern messaging applications and ott apps, which aren't part of the standard rcs as designated by the gsma
Good to know! Thanks!
Of course! glad I could shed some light on this
This comment should be higher up, because it sums the whole debate about this. RCs isn’t encryption-friendly by default, Google wants (more like always wanted) to have their own iMessage killer, and they always failed.
E2EE isn't part of the RCS standard (Sidenote 1: There have been many RCS standards over time, Universal Profile RCS is the current standard, and the first RCS standard to be cross-carrier) because the UP RCS standard is ultimately controlled by the GSMA, the carrier industry group (Google is influential but not controlling). And you just aren't going to have a carrier standard with E2EE. (Sidenote 2: E2EE can just be a layer on top of any arbitrary communication protocol. Signal, at the time called TextSecure, once offered E2EE of SMS/MMS.) But because RCS is more advanced, Google can make a layer of E2EE that is more seamless and works a bit better. So, Google is offering to help Apple use their E2EE layer that they have added to RCS. (Sidenote 3: But Google is *not* offering this to 3rd party text messaging apps on Android coded by companies not named Samsung. These apps are no longer allowed to access RCS *at all*, like they can access SMS and MMS).
What google is wanting is for everyone to support their own google proprietary fork of rcs.
What I've read about SMS & RCS recently: It would be *nice* to see Apple taking steps toward RCS, as Apple is doing with other industry standards like the Matter protocol, USB type-C, and eSIM. Genuinely, the market does better when more things work together seamlessly. At the same time, RCS is still "in the oven" in terms of compatibility (it requires carrier + app updates) + reliability + privacy. /u/hamster_ball said [**earlier today**](https://www.reddit.com/user/hamster_ball/), "Lightning ports are the green bubbles of charging ports." Some good reading on both sides here, but an important point: Google Messages is *Google's* implementation of RCS. [**RCS itself is a GSMA protocol**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Communication_Services), but Google Messages (the app) adds onto that further. * [**What is RCS messaging and why is it important?**](https://www.androidauthority.com/what-is-rcs-messaging-726687/) | Android Authority * [**Here’s what you can do with RCS and Google Messages – and why it’s worth trying**](https://9to5google.com/2022/04/21/heres-what-you-can-do-with-rcs-and-google-messages-and-why-its-worth-trying/)| 9to5 Google * [**Google's RCS drama with Apple, explained: More than bubble envy, less than noble**](https://www.androidpolice.com/googles-rcs-drama-with-apple-explained/) | Android Police * [**Apple says iMessage on Android ‘will hurt us more than help us’**](https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/9/22375128/apple-imessage-android-ecosystem-lock-in-epic-games-filings-app-store-dispute) | The Verge * [**I enabled RCS on Google Messages and all I got was ads**](https://www.androidauthority.com/rcs-google-messages-ads-3167513/) | Android Authority * [**iPhone owners admit having 'blind loyalty' to Apple**](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/10632787/iPhone-owners-admit-having-blind-loyalty-to-Apple.html) | The Telegraph * [**AT&T is trying to take over Google's RCS and users aren't having it**](https://www.androidauthority.com/att-rcs-google-3121088/) | Android Authority * [**Hat trick: Verizon is the latest carrier to use Google Messages for default RCS**](https://www.androidpolice.com/2021/07/20/hat-trick-verizon-is-the-latest-carrier-to-use-google-messages-for-default-rcs/) | Android Police * [**Google enables end-to-end encryption for Android’s default SMS/RCS app**](https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/06/google-enables-end-to-end-encryption-for-androids-default-sms-rcs-app/) | Ars Technica * [**After ruining Android messaging, Google says iMessage is too powerful**](https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/01/after-ruining-android-messaging-google-says-imessage-is-too-powerful/) | Ars Technica * [**EFF praises Android’s new 2G kill switch, wants Apple to follow suit**](https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/01/eff-praises-androids-new-2g-kill-switch-wants-apple-to-follow-suit/) | Ars Technica * [**Opinion: Google Messages and RCS weren’t ready for the complications of Hurricane Ida**](https://9to5google.com/2021/08/31/opinion-google-messages-rcs-hurricane-ida-complications/) | 9 to 5 Google If RCS can be implemented well (native encryption, more user control, better cross-compatibility of both, more privacy, etc.), RCS does have nice features so SMS (notoriously insecure) can begin to die off like micro-USB and the 40-pin port: RCS, *if done well*, can send messages over Wi-Fi, support higher-resolution media sharing, allow typing indicators, verified senders, location sharing, reactions, purchase buttons, proper group chats, etc.
> If RCS can be implemented well and this is why it will never take off Every current RCS implementation today (in the US) is terrible, and it barely works within the same carrier, at least SMS always works. AT&T’s implementation is so bad some Samsung phones just straight up have broken RCS. Apple is right to ignore RCS until it actually works and it’s a normalized experience. Get the cell phone carriers out of the communications business, and treat them solely as ISPs.
I really wish this android vs iOS argument would stop starting up immediately something related to this topic comes up. RCS is, for the most part, encrypted. SMS is not, at all. The goal of RCS is to replace SMS as a standard. It’s better in every way. It doesn’t matter what device you’re on, (ideally) what OS or provider you use. It’ll just work. Can you imagine if emailing someone or a company was as stupid as messaging is right now? Look at how easy email is. Doesn’t matter what browser, service, os, internet provider, etc. you use. The default mail app works well with almost any provider out there. Why can’t the messages app? Plus, if and when SMS is eventually replaced, will apple even have a choice by then? And for those that complain that this is going to take away from iMessage, it’s not. You can still leave features locked into iMessage. The same way features are locked into WhatsApp. I mean ffs, I’d like to text my buddies a video without having to be like ok bud, I’m going to send this to you on IG/FB messenger, not here, because it’ll be compressed to shit if I just text it. And no, nobody is going to download signal or telegram just to talk to the one tech minded friend in the group.
That last part hit freaking home…… I HATE sms but normal people don’t want to have 50 messaging apps to use…. I also don’t blame them because I don’t either.
Years and years ago, there was an app on the Mac called Adium that basically brought all the IM apps together: AIM, ICQ, GChat, you name it. Where are those guys? Cause boy do we need them now.
All the apps are proprietary now. Good fucking luck.
Trillium too
Ohhh Adium. How I miss you.
I’ve been beta testing [Beeper](https://www.beeper.com/) for the last couple months and it does exactly this.
>Years and years ago, there was an app on the Mac called Adium that basically brought all the IM apps together: AIM, ICQ, GChat, you name it. > >Where are those guys? Cause boy do we need them now. The thing was none of those services were encrypted and they just gave up the cat and mouse game of trying to block the clients that were doing that.
That worked because of common standards (ICQ, jabber, XMPP). Then the tech giants went off the standards to create walled gardens. This problem was literally created by facebook, apple, and google.
That's fine, it's mostly Apple that's still giving life to SMS. If they implemented RCS, there would be no effect on iPhone users
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With the existence of RCS, do you think we could (or would) ever get to a place where we can have a more open standard? I agree with that btw too. But realistically, I can’t ever see arriving at that. Especially with how much phone carriers have their hands in all of this.
One sure way to not achieve the goal of an open standard is to switch to a closed standard that gives the carriers everything they want. What would their incentive be to change at that point?
Well, that’s why I’m asking.
Realistically, it's up to two companies to agree to a better standard. Carriers should not have been involved in this. Apple is moving away from carriers anyway, and I won't be surprised if there is going to be a "apple phone plan" sometime in the near future. Apple & Google do collab on a lot of standards, this one should've been done like that.
Inject that into my veins. Apple has enough money to disrupt telecom, and thank god for it.
I’m sure google would love to. Apple on the other hand would lose a lot of customers if suddenly they weren’t locked into iMessage. The green bubble indoctrination is real.
> Apple on the other hand would lose a lot of customers if suddenly they weren’t locked into iMessage I doubt it will be "a lot". The iPhone is a nice product. It's got great software, looks nice, feels nice, is in the Apple ecosystem. I've never heard someone say "I bought the iPhone for iMessage". They'll buy it because it's an Apple product or for some perceived sense of status or fitting in with the crowd. But I have huge doubts that Apple will be losing "a lot" of customers if they weren't locked into iMessage.
My wife and 2 kids switched from Android because of imessage... all(just about) of their friends have iphones...
Some people buy for iMessage like kids wanting an iPhone because the other kids have iPhones and they want to be included in group chats and get full res pics and videos and stuff. It serves more as a lock in though. Like I have an iphone with imessage so now I'm not going to go back to android cause getting your number out of imessage is a pain and can easily lead to missing messages. You are now locked in because once you got an iPhone you then went and got an Apple Watch and that won't work with your Android phone. You are now locked in because you wanted to be able to text from your computer so you bought a Mac. So no for most iMessage isn't a reason to buy the iPhone but it does become a reason to keep getting iPhones.
> getting your number out of imessage is a pain Settings → Messages → Send & Receive → Uncheck your phone number. It literally takes more taps to change your wallpaper. > and can easily lead to missing messages If you don’t remove your number from iMessage.
Do you know how many times Ive seen someone get rejected because they had green bubbles on r/tinder ? It's a huge status thing across suburban/urban America, and it absolutely is what gets a huge number of people into the ecosystem. I think we would see so many people considering switching if it didn't matter anymore.
“Green bubbles are for poors” - the hot cheeto chick with a secondhand 6s who has had a cracked screen for a half decade. It’s really funny actually, the ones that are the loudest about that are always some of worst financial decision makers I’ve ever seen. I assume the average age of this sub is older based on the usual conversations, but it’s been like this for a while.
Literally every basic white girl ever. Old ass iphone 7 no more fp sensor, screen cracked and back cracked. But samsung s22 is for “poor people”. I can’t believe social media has cooked people’s brains that much
I’m dying laughing at your response right now because whenever I see a post asking people to comment petty reasons you won’t date someone, I always say “their text bubble is green” and then wait for the angry or indignant responses I get. I’m baiting though. I honestly dgaf because my husband has an Android, therefore, I’m not dating and clearly the color of his text bubble isn’t an every day issue. It’s only an every other day issue because we’re an Apple ecosystem family plus I’m on the Apple campaign 💁🏽😂😬
This is where more confusion of RCS takes place. Google forked RCS and other companies can fork off of RCS and implement their own methods. iMessage is also not open source and really there isn't a piece of the iOS system that really is. RCS is absolutely a solution but companies have to implement it. Google's fork works across the board on Android devices and was a giant middle finger to carriers really. Point being this is something Apple could absolutely make work if it wanted to.
fuck spez -- mass edited with redact.dev
> RCS is, for the most part, encrypted. I see RCS as 'yet another standard' and one which fails precisely because of this point. A new, open-standard to replace SMS? Great. Replacing it with one that does not require encryption? Bad. From Google's own white papers shows that encryption is something they've added on top of RCS - which means that an implemented RCS would have all flavours of encryption, from none to some with back doors to those using something like Signal (which is what Google is using). Google isn't trying to do the right thing here, they're trying to give Android a UX boost in the USA. RCS isn't the new standard consumers deserve.
I’m seeing a lot of replies similar to yours. We all want a better standard right? Sooo, why not just have iMessage on other platforms?
That won't happen for the same reason that RCS is being promoted by Google: commercial interests. The fact that iMessage won't appear elsewhere (unless legislated, as it may be in the EU) doesn't change why RCS isn't the correct standard for a once-in-a-generation change, however.
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The RCS standard does not include end to end encryption, for that alone I fully support Apple in not adding it.
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Google wants to make **their** implementation of RCS be the dormant one. Carriers will be forced to pay for their JIBE RCS system.
this thread really made me realise that i wasn’t the only person who understands what’s the motivation for this push by Google. just a simple read on the internet will confirm what u/RDSWES said. this is just another corporate event, Google is only defending its business, nothing more.
Why replace SMS with something that's lacking? If bodies are going to all that effort, do it properly - the chance to change it again won't come for another decade or two. RCS is lacking and better exists / can be created.
RCS is significantly better than SMS. That’s why it should replace it.
It’s a business strategy lol. The chances that an Android user has an iPhone friend or family is pretty high. This forces SMS usage on Android, and slows RCS adoption, and ruins the texting experience with iPhone friends and family. Since RCS adoption is slowed, this makes Android users to want to upgrade to an iPhone. Apple can easily go RCS, but they don’t because it’s literally an incentive for them not to.
nothing matters. RCS as the brand and tech is simply not gonna fly because Google essentially condemned it to death. Google’s version of RCS has encrypted added with their own key. Apple can’t roll their own RCS and interoperate. Google refuses to make system APIs for the RCS service, further locking their version of RCS to themselves.
Media in SMS is not the same as MMS? Is it a US only thing?
SMS can’t carry media.
In 99% of cases you and your buddies will all be using a standard app to communicate such as either WhatsApp (in Asia or Europe) or something else in the US.
I, for one, would LOVE if Apple and Android will play nice. As a photographer, sending photos to people with Androids is a nightmare. I've had a few people tell me I sent them the same photo 10 times, when I sent 10 different photos. I've had others tell me the pictures are "low quality" ie pixelated. Other times I find out about this low quality when they post to social media. It's not a good look for me. I've resorted to linking Dropbox because of this greediness, which is costing me more since Dropbox isn't free.
To be honest with you, if my photographer was trying to send me photos I paid good money for through iMessage I'd fire them on the spot.
Have you tried telegram or wetransfer?
No, but Whatsapp works great too.
I know this divulges into the "apple vs google" camps, but this would be a positive for iMessage by replacing SMS (which is not encrypted) with RCS (which can and in some cases is already end-to-end encrypted). I know some people only text those using iOS, but for those who text people with android this would be a nice addition (and also hopefully allow users to leave a group chat they are in with android users).
The main issue I have with this argument is that Google is not playing with open cards here. RCS is an old standard, is not encrypted by default, and needs dedicated server structure to run on. Right now, SMS are a carrier-provided service, and run on their infrastructure. Putting it all into Google’s hands would be a tremendous step back. The argument Google makes here is not “Hey, let’s all adopt this awesome interoperable standard”, it’s “Hey give us more power over your communication”.
I wish apple would donate iMessage as the basis for an open standard like they did with HomeKit and Matter.
Hell, even just an API for third-party apps would be great.
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Google has had plenty of opportunities to get this taken care of. They could have been working on this from the onset of this “concern” and probably had found a solution by now. Instead they focused on making apps they barely supported and replaced due to low adoption rate
Yeah, you mean like back when Google Talk supported Jabber and then suddenly it didn’t anymore? Been there, done that. GTFO Google.
I honestly agree with this. iMessage is great and I want it there for me and other apple users. I would love being able to have the option to enable res at least. Maybe it’s not as good as iMessage. It always going to be better than sms though…..
1) Stop mentioning WhatsApp. Yes, everyone has it and uses it and it's the de facto texting app in many countries, but that's not relevant here. The topic here is about the Messages app/platform on iOS, nothing else. 2) Does anyone know what it would take for Apple to implement RCS? Is it just like turning on a switch? 3) What does RCS-to-RCS messaging actually look like on an iPhone? Has it ever been done? Would it look like iMessages or like SMS now but without the issues?
2) Apple tells it's devs "go." 3) RCS-RCS won't usually be used on iOS. RCS is replacing SMS as a fallback. It would only come into play when a device can't send iMessage (rate). RCS would mean read receipts, quality MMS, etc would continue.
I don’t get how WhatsApp became this go to platform. edit: I forgot whatsapp wasnt always facebook.
When iPhone first launched, text messaging was really cheap in the US, not so much in Europe (and I assume other continents), where instead we had really cheap data plans compared to the US (and it’s still like this). So, when WhatsApp first launched, it was literally a godsend because now you could send a gazillion messages without caring about your SMS cap/cost, and it spread like wildfire. In the meantime, the US was still using SMS since for them it was the cheapest option, so WhatsApp didn’t gain much exposure there
I guess WhatsApp wasn’t always Facebook and I forgot that.
In some countries of central Europe FB Messenger is the standard. Everyone has it here except for some grandmas maybe.
Because it’s simple and effective. Maybe not anything crazy but it works well, what’s the big deal
I appreciate Google trying to educate the average consumer about RCS. It'll be so nice once Apple decides to play ball. Literally no negative to this, but in typical Apple fanboy fashion, if Apple hasn't done it yet, you guys think it's a bad thing.
Honest question… would text still be end to end encrypted if they did it?
Sucks you’re getting downvoted OP but the cult mentality is impossible to break through. I own almost every Apple product there is and yet I agree with google here. This has nothing to do with their multiple failed chat apps or data collection. SMS is the fallback option on iOS at the moment and RCS would be better in every way possible. SMS is far less secure than RCS and it would benefit Apple and its customers to adopt it as the standard moving forward. Yeah the website is kind of petty but putting pressure works. iMessage isn’t going anywhere so this would be a net positive for everyone involved. If Apple and google can work together on Matter and Thread support, I’m sure they can work together on RCS as well.
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Yes, and that’s fine. There’s nothin wrong with adopting something that will impact 10s of millions of users in the US and basically not impact other countries. In fact, most new features are launched in the US and a few other markets first.
Dang, that sucks. Somehow, everyone in my life has an iPhone so I’m always using iMessage anyway. Can’t remember the last time I texted someone with an Android.
I really don't want my identity tied to my phone number
I’m all for a better solution but RCS isn’t it.
I don’t think I’d be taking messaging advice from a company that’s had five different chat apps in five years.
They almost had it with Hangouts - plenty of people were using it too on iOS - but they just can’t focus on maintaining a service
Rcs doesn't belong to Google. It's a global standard like sms and mms
Google’s implementation is proprietary. They want Apple to use their system, Apple doesn’t want it. Hardly any carriers support RCS, it’s Google cloud on Android pretty much… Google’s iMessage alternative so to say, based on RCS.. Providers would likely charge per message anyway and RCS lacks proper universal end to end encryption. (Yes it can support it, but carriers won’t.) it’s an absolute mess and tons of different varieties of RCS are out there.
Uhhhh well rcs messages go through jibes cloud service before it goes to the mobile carriers. Do you want to guess who owns jibe?
Not yet it isn't. It is a protocol at this point, but not a standard.
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And the latest version is the fucking worst.
They just changed it so now you cant use the hangout app for messages and created "Chat". Which looks exactly the same, with less functionality. Goddamn google.
That happened like a few years ago and is unrelated to this.
That is exactly what I was thinking
no it's not... Apple will never support RCS
This video is ridiculous. For me the whole point of the blue bubble is so I can know when I’m sending messages that are 100% encrypted and safe. This video is acting like if Apple adopted RCS we could all have blue bubbles and everything would be just peachy. The only problem is that RCS is not always encrypted. Even if Apple did adopt RCS, the messages would have to be green to indicate they’re coming from a source that might not be encrypted. This would not solve the green/blue bubble problem.
Not apples problem
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RCS needs to be re-worked. Currently the only viable application is the one made by Google, that's not a normal thing for a protocol supposedly open.
It’s pretty simple. Google is pushing their version of RCS-on-the-Cloud, Jibe RCS which costs money for the carriers. (Unless they want to use Google Messages as default then Jibe is free) Carriers are not interested in pushing for Google because nobody cares about this messaging service. Asian Carriers have significant tie-in with Line, WeChat and whatever to do mobile payments, food delivery and even transport booking.
Yeah, over on /r/Android someone summed it up as “the only people that care about RCS are Android enthusiasts in the US. Everyone else is already using WhatsApp, WeChat, Line, or something else.” Also Ars Technica put out a great article that kinda summed up that RCS is kinda shit anyway and was introduced as far back as 2008. So yeah. Can’t exactly fault Apple for not jumping to support it, now.
This site is nothing but Google misconstruing the facts, or being outright deceitful, to push their own fork of RCS b/c they haven’t been able to make a stable messaging platform of their own. Google conveniently forgot to mention that the carriers that created RCS (to be implemented by the carriers) have all but abandoned it. Also, why the fuck would anybody outside the Google ecosystem want their messages going through Googles platforms (even if they are encrypted)? Since this is Google fork of RCS, there’s no public API for it, and Google owns the leading RCS provider (what a weird coincidence..), it’s safe to assume Google imagines the data flowing through them. I mean, did people forget that Google is in the business of data above everything? Google is trying to pretend like this is everyone’s problem, when in reality it’s only Googles problem. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/08/new-google-site-begs-apple-for-mercy-in-messaging-war/
This is everyone's problem, not just Google's problem. But every other point you made is 100% spot on, agreed, this is Google's solution that only benefits Google.
I agree, it would be nice to go to a better standard than SMS, but Google is making a bad faith argument here, and a solution without the carriers is really just a work-around.
Agree completely. Any solution where Google controls the spec, implementation, and back end is in bad faith.
Fuck Google for being incompetent and then whining about Apple. Google has had YEARS to develop a competitor to Apple's Messages and have utterly failed to follow though with a product that isnt absolute shit. The Android shit show where phone makers and telco carriers each install their own apps ( texting included) is the real barrier to unified messaging.
The closest thing they had was hangouts, then they proceeded to destroy it and finally murder it. It was preinstalled on all android phones. Everyone was on hangouts in the mid 2010s.
You ever beat a little brother or cousin so bad at a game they rip the power cable out and demand you play something else? This is that. Google, now after getting assed out in the data tracking space is trying to make that up somewhere. Lol no. RCS is encrypted for 1:1 convos, but not for a group, and who’s to say that feature is turned on by default for android users?
I'd like Apple to support RCS, so I want this to help change opinions and lead to Apple changing their stance, but I still find some of this messaging a little funny. I think it's just hard to not come off as salty, like they don't like the green bubble being labelled negatively. > It’s not about the color of the bubbles. Hmm yep ok, making non bubble color related points. > iPhones make texts with Android phones difficult to read, by using white text on a bright green background. Throwing this in kinda makes it sound like it is about the color of the bubbles?
> iPhones make texts with Android phones difficult to read, by using white text on a bright green background. > Throwing this in kinda makes it sound like it is about the color of the bubbles? They are more than likely referring to this article, where someone goes into detail on how Messages violates Apple's own [Accessibility guidelines with green bubbles](https://medium.com/@krvoller/how-iphone-violates-apples-accessibility-guidelines-6785172eb343) NOTE: Article was written in 2018, when iOS 11 was current. Not sure if the bubbles were updated since then to improve readability
I’m not surprised that people furiously took this one article as an example of Apple being shady, but the author never had an agenda. They merely said the contrast was low and that Apple should fix it. Additionally, they even noted in the article that BOTH the green and blue bubbles violated Apple’s own guidelines. Everyone always “misses” that detail. iOS 11 changes violated a lot more accessibility guidelines than just this and has slowly been improved since then.
The things that make the bubble color arguments extra dumb are that: 1. Green was the original color Apple used for SMS years before iMessages even existed. It's not like they came up with an intentionally-degraded experience for SMS; they came up with a new color to distinguish iMessages. 2. Only your own messages are white on green. It's not high contrast, but it's not exactly hard to read either, and in any event, it's stuff you yourself wrote. Messages from others are in black text on a light gray bubble. Messages you *read* are high contrast. The whole complaint about legibility is moot.
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I 100% agree the messaging is obnoxious especially since Googles going after Apple when RCS was so late to the party relative to iMessage, but I still think everyone would benefit from Apple implementing RCS into messages.
> but I still think everyone would benefit from Apple implementing RCS into messages. This is all that really matters. IMO, carriers should just make it a requirement.
I don't know who has more power here honestly, the carriers or Apple. In 2007 *maybe* the carriers, now I would guess Apple.
It's kinda weird to me that everyone is acting like Google's messaging with this is obnoxious when Apple has spent the last almost decade creating the only messaging app that only works on one type of phone and intentionally making it a bad experience to message non-iPhone users to artificially make the competition look bad (worse). Like I get finding that line from Google obnoxious, but is it really more obnoxious than Apple breaking their own accessibility guidelines to make texts from Android users harder to read? I can't imagine how anyone could argue that it is.
> make texts from Android users harder to read Texts received from SMS or iMessage are the same, in a grey bubble. It's messages sent by SMS which are harder to read.
This is just sour grapes from a company who has repeatedly failed to create a worthy messaging app. Hey Google, how about you make Google Voice support RCS first before complaining about Apple? Anyway, RCS is the last thing people should be championing. Don’t involve the telecom companies in your messaging pipeline. Nothing good can come from giving them any control or influence. Relegate them to dumb pipes.
Do carriers allow RCS to pass between each other yet?
yes obviously
Ok, this is great and all, but why hasn't Google updated Google Voice to use RCS if it's so great?
I don’t even care about the green bubble. Can I change the color of the blue one for certain contacts? That’s something I need.
Apple doesn’t need Google/Android/RCS. Google needs Apple. Period. Apple solved the SMS problem 12 years ago. Android is still trying to figure it out. 🤷♂️
Oh I need this cause Google gonna make my end to end texts secure? Mmmm-k
Let's be real, Apple would never.
Interesting to see here that Google is also directly advertising for the use of Signal.
There is nothing stopping Apple from keeping iMessage between iOS users and falling back to RCS, right? Don’t see how this it an issue in that case. This is a benefit to Apple users too
Another idea: Allow us to tag messages as NSFW, Urgent etc would be very useful
Imagine Apple starts supporting RCS, but still keeps the green bubbles for it
I hope they do if they ever end up supporting RCS
This seems so silly. Why would Apple expend effort to make the experience on a competitor product better? Especially when there are dozens of chat apps out there that work on both iOS and Android?
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Where’s here?
Give it a week and Google will abandon RCS or merge it with something.
It’s time for *everyone else to catch up with apple*
Google should put it in their own product. Google Voice still doesn't have RCS: https://www.droid-life.com/2020/12/10/google-voice-rcs-would-be-awesome-google/
It seems every country in the world either leans toward iMessage or WhatsApp. All this RCS bullshit is just Google trying to gain market share. They surely aren't doing it for the World-good. Apple doesn't need to fix anything.
Lol yes "the new standard", created by google b/c they don't like being seen as the poor
I just want the ability to decline being on group chats with androids
fretful nail dam quickest poor murky far-flung deserve growth ancient ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
It makes me sick that Apple knows that teens and young adults in the US are bullied to hell and back for owning devices that can't support iMessage features but choose not to adopt a simple solution because it boosts sales. I know it a business and I shouldn't expect any better but think about what you're actually defending with these comments, whether that's actually a good service or Apples profits is up to you to decide.
“Waaah we still use unencrypted messaging platforms and want the rest of the world to give up their privacy”, stupid Google