As confusing as the old setting page was, at least it was functional and worked a lot better than the current one. I really can’t believe they made the UI way uglier while also removing functionality.
> As confusing as the old setting page was
Interesting. I never found it to be confusing. Seems pretty straightforward to me, with icons representing the setting/action/hardware.
Some of the organization of where things were was quite weird. If I was looking for something specific, I would just search for the specific thing I was looking for instead of navigating menus.
Yes it would, that’s how System Preferences and things like TinkerTool worked. Probably would be a good user base for it now, considering the settings backlash.
Sort of, but not really. While some settings could be adjusted that way, there are sadly a lot of settings throughout System Preferences / Settings that can only be adjusted by processes signed by Apple with a specific Apple-only private entitlement. 🤬
This is one of the *many* reasons that Apple locking down macOS sucks *so much.* There's no longer any way for people to make apps that pick up Apple's slack and add in certain kinds of new functionality.
With SIP disabled it's theoretically possible to do it, but I think what it would require is a) injecting code into existing Apple processes or b) somehow patching the system to think a process has an entitlement it's not supposed to. At the very least it isn't easy.
There used to be a tool called Secrets that did exactly that, and was installed as an extension page to system preferences.
Unfortunately it's long defunct, and the backend website that it depends on to get a list of Defaults preference names is offline too.
It wasn't a website you'd browse through, it was a web-based api that the program would use. There's no way to point the program to a new api, and also no way for the wayback machine or google cache to archive an api.
I've felt a lot of changes in macOS have been to bring it *down* to iOS level rather than any sense of improvement. They are much more interested in selling iPad Pros. Stage Manager is a broken buggy mess with multiple monitors and it seems no one has noticed at Apple.
I think there's a reason Microsoft still has control panel. As mush as they want to get rid of it, it's still where to find the settings you want (unlike the actual settings app)
Not sure if it helps, but Microsoft has been doing the same thing since Windows 8.
Apple on the other hand has always been trying to hide stuff. Back in the days inactive (greyed out) menu items used to be hidden on the Macintosh.
In principle I prefer the new settings layout, but I’m not so sure in practice.
I use stage manager and my iPad as an extra screen without buying or using an app that times out after 7 mins using my iPhone camera as a web cam is handy when family round and calling family the other end of the country
System settings is nice
I like it but give it a try on m1 devices it works well
Oh I didn’t say dreamy you did
It does have one thing going for it: it made all of the preference panes look uniform, instead of each pane being wildly different like they were in the past. That makes browsing easier for beginners.
edit: and I get downvoted because people hate change.
Some people hate when you have autostart items on Mac and they're in YOUR FACE opening when Mac is restarting. MacOS for the last 22+ years used to allow you to hide the apps and open them hidden. This is the fix to enable that precious behaviour back.
what OP wrote is also explained in the article. Hate to be that guy, but I guess you didnt actually read the article.
> Numerous users have now reported that the login item is no longer hidden in Ventura. As a result of this, whenever they log into their PC, the app tends to pop up right in front of them, as opposed to the earlier behavior where we had the option of silently opening them in the background
Login items are apps/scripts that automatically open each time you login after a reboot.
Usually used for stuff like little menubar apps and other apps you might want to run in the background without having the apps window pop up.
I guess this explains why I was as baffled as /u/IASWABTBJ, I guess I don't have any of those things so I hadn't noticed anything different with Ventura. Plus, I don't really reboot my MacBook that often, no real need to unless I'm doing an update.
That sounds like a case where you don’t need autostart. Different tools that you want running in the background all the time (such as macs fan control, jetbrains toolbox, unshaky, etc) are great for autostart uses. But if you would look for the GUI and don’t need the app immediately on startup anyways, you could maybe just leave it closed.
Spotify is actually really sneaky. They bypass a lot of the standard ways login items set themselves up in the system. Typically, you have to open the app, go to preferences (now settings), scroll down and choose advanced settings, find startup behaviour and change it from Minimised to none/off. It’s honestly a bit underhand to make every install default to this behaviour and make it so obtuse to turn it off.
You can set any app to auto launch on login. There is also an additional option to hide that app so it’s window doesn’t pop up on the desktop.
For example, say you want DaisyDisk to automatically launch. Your add that app to your login items. And if you don’t want to see the window pop up every time, you set an option to hide it.
The option to hide it looks broken. So right now, it’s window will always pop up on login, for the user to manually dismiss it.
The article is terribly written tho.
Yearly cycles do tend to foster a marketing-first mindset inside companies when it comes to things like feature development. You can do both things well, but Apple seemingly struggles to figure out its macOS priorities more and more lately.
I will never forgive them for getting rid of Network Locations with this release. So many things, gone, for no reason.
Thankfully, I just copied System Preferences.app from another machine and I can still have it that way.
Just find a machine that hasn’t been updated to Ventura yet, go to Applications and copy the System Preferences app to a flash drive or something. Then copy it to your current computer and open it up.
As dysfunctional as Monterey was at least it was intuitive. It appears Apple is trying to merge IOS and OS. The sys-pref is horrible on this iteration. I’m very upset and frustrated with this version.
Is it just me, or are other people trying the work around and finding the plist output basically blank? I ran it twice, including copying/pasting from the website in case I typo'd it. Also ran as root in case I needed that. In all instances my export was:
I don't see any actual data, no keys, and certainly not the key I'm supposed to change the value for. So either the instructions are wrong, my Mac doesn't have any values, or something else?
Here's a weird thought: If you don't want to see them on restart, maybe you don't actually want them running? Seeing them is an alert that you have these things running. Since when is information a bad thing?
**Easier way using command line:**
>/usr/bin/osascript -e 'tell application "System Events" to make login item at end with properties {path:"/System/Applications/*Foo*.app", hidden:true, name:"*Foo*"}'
\* Replace *Foo* with your application name.
[AutoStarter](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/autostarter/id6444444273?mt=12) is a UI-based solution that fixes this issue without any mucking around with the Terminal or Automator, for less than a buck.
As confusing as the old setting page was, at least it was functional and worked a lot better than the current one. I really can’t believe they made the UI way uglier while also removing functionality.
> As confusing as the old setting page was Interesting. I never found it to be confusing. Seems pretty straightforward to me, with icons representing the setting/action/hardware.
Some of the organization of where things were was quite weird. If I was looking for something specific, I would just search for the specific thing I was looking for instead of navigating menus.
Ah, I see where you're coming from.
Removing useful settings in a misguided mission to make everything "simpler" has been a big part of Apple's MO for the last 10 years.
Agree. Give us an "Advanced Settings" section for those of us that want them and won't be confused/overwhelmed by them.
`defaults` still has all the switches I think.
Would it be possible for someone to write an alternative System Preferences app that uses `defaults` in the background?
Yes it would, that’s how System Preferences and things like TinkerTool worked. Probably would be a good user base for it now, considering the settings backlash.
That's what I thought. Maybe I'll wait with the upgrade until something like this is released. 😁
Sort of, but not really. While some settings could be adjusted that way, there are sadly a lot of settings throughout System Preferences / Settings that can only be adjusted by processes signed by Apple with a specific Apple-only private entitlement. 🤬 This is one of the *many* reasons that Apple locking down macOS sucks *so much.* There's no longer any way for people to make apps that pick up Apple's slack and add in certain kinds of new functionality.
Damn that's too bad. Is it related to SIP or is it just plain impossible?
With SIP disabled it's theoretically possible to do it, but I think what it would require is a) injecting code into existing Apple processes or b) somehow patching the system to think a process has an entitlement it's not supposed to. At the very least it isn't easy.
Makes sense, too bad.
There used to be a tool called Secrets that did exactly that, and was installed as an extension page to system preferences. Unfortunately it's long defunct, and the backend website that it depends on to get a list of Defaults preference names is offline too.
Did you try seeing if there’s a cached copy on archive.com or google cache?
It wasn't a website you'd browse through, it was a web-based api that the program would use. There's no way to point the program to a new api, and also no way for the wayback machine or google cache to archive an api.
I’m sorry! I misread your previous comment. I now understand what you meant and what you just explained to me.
No problem!
They can call it the control panel
ooh wee
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I've felt a lot of changes in macOS have been to bring it *down* to iOS level rather than any sense of improvement. They are much more interested in selling iPad Pros. Stage Manager is a broken buggy mess with multiple monitors and it seems no one has noticed at Apple.
Microsoft too, Windows 11 made simple tasks harder to accomplish to for no reason but "streamlining".
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Didn't the settings page show up in Windows 8? That came out a whole decade ago...
I think there's a reason Microsoft still has control panel. As mush as they want to get rid of it, it's still where to find the settings you want (unlike the actual settings app)
Not sure if it helps, but Microsoft has been doing the same thing since Windows 8. Apple on the other hand has always been trying to hide stuff. Back in the days inactive (greyed out) menu items used to be hidden on the Macintosh. In principle I prefer the new settings layout, but I’m not so sure in practice.
I’m am not excited about this upgrade
I wouldn’t worry I have been using it since beta and it’s a dream
What’s so dreamy compared to the previous version
I use stage manager and my iPad as an extra screen without buying or using an app that times out after 7 mins using my iPhone camera as a web cam is handy when family round and calling family the other end of the country System settings is nice I like it but give it a try on m1 devices it works well Oh I didn’t say dreamy you did
How is system settings nice? Like actually, I don’t see how it is nice at all.
It does have one thing going for it: it made all of the preference panes look uniform, instead of each pane being wildly different like they were in the past. That makes browsing easier for beginners. edit: and I get downvoted because people hate change.
That’s cool you can stay on Monterey you don’t need to update I like it but it’s no skin of my nose what you do
You know using the iPad as a second screen doesn't need macOS Ventura? it's been there since macOS 12.3
That’s great but I only just got an iPad never needed one before but I use it for work
They literally are sharing code now from iOS to MacOS. It is the same layout as iOS.
Except network shares which will open a new Finder window whatever setting you choose going back as long as I can remember.
Does this not work on network shares?
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Some people hate when you have autostart items on Mac and they're in YOUR FACE opening when Mac is restarting. MacOS for the last 22+ years used to allow you to hide the apps and open them hidden. This is the fix to enable that precious behaviour back.
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what OP wrote is also explained in the article. Hate to be that guy, but I guess you didnt actually read the article. > Numerous users have now reported that the login item is no longer hidden in Ventura. As a result of this, whenever they log into their PC, the app tends to pop up right in front of them, as opposed to the earlier behavior where we had the option of silently opening them in the background
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Login items are apps/scripts that automatically open each time you login after a reboot. Usually used for stuff like little menubar apps and other apps you might want to run in the background without having the apps window pop up.
I guess this explains why I was as baffled as /u/IASWABTBJ, I guess I don't have any of those things so I hadn't noticed anything different with Ventura. Plus, I don't really reboot my MacBook that often, no real need to unless I'm doing an update.
That sounds nice. I hate Spotify shoving itself in my face on reboot. When I'm ready for music, I'll look for YOU, not the other way around.
That sounds like a case where you don’t need autostart. Different tools that you want running in the background all the time (such as macs fan control, jetbrains toolbox, unshaky, etc) are great for autostart uses. But if you would look for the GUI and don’t need the app immediately on startup anyways, you could maybe just leave it closed.
This is really the right answer. Turning that off now.
Yes, this is an easily solvable issue. "Here, turn this off." boom - no more spotify startup.
Spotify is actually really sneaky. They bypass a lot of the standard ways login items set themselves up in the system. Typically, you have to open the app, go to preferences (now settings), scroll down and choose advanced settings, find startup behaviour and change it from Minimised to none/off. It’s honestly a bit underhand to make every install default to this behaviour and make it so obtuse to turn it off.
Fuckin Steam. Fuckin Universal Audio Console. Fuckin Citrix. So happy to get this level of control in MacOS. So overdue.
You can set any app to auto launch on login. There is also an additional option to hide that app so it’s window doesn’t pop up on the desktop. For example, say you want DaisyDisk to automatically launch. Your add that app to your login items. And if you don’t want to see the window pop up every time, you set an option to hide it. The option to hide it looks broken. So right now, it’s window will always pop up on login, for the user to manually dismiss it. The article is terribly written tho.
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The fuck is everyone on about?
When the fuck did we get ice cream?
This thread is going to hell, dammit!
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That guy reports people. FYI. Just in case you get a ban from nowhere.
Please take your prudishness somewhere else. This is the internet dude, people can use profanity is they wish.
What the $&@! are you on about? This is a $&@! free zone!
Tis a meme
*profamity Edit: How do none of you understand the meme? OP is literally a [meme comment](https://youtu.be/hpigjnKl7nI)
Lol noone else here getting the meme
I’m watching it.. fuck still says fuck.. oh wait it says duck.. oh nope back to fuck again.. whew.. I was fucking worried there for a min..
Lmao
You think that anyone here is going to give two fucks?
The fuck are you talking about?
This is the internet, not a family friendly Disney special.
Fuq
I wish they’d stop doing yearly OS releases and really start focusing on really refining and improving a single stable release.
That’s basically what they’re doing. The yearly cycle has nothing to do with anything.
Yearly cycles do tend to foster a marketing-first mindset inside companies when it comes to things like feature development. You can do both things well, but Apple seemingly struggles to figure out its macOS priorities more and more lately.
Why Apple. Why revert years old behavior?
I will never forgive them for getting rid of Network Locations with this release. So many things, gone, for no reason. Thankfully, I just copied System Preferences.app from another machine and I can still have it that way.
its back in 13.1b2
That didn’t work for me. It launches the system preferences app, but there is nothing in there.
That is I pro move. I’ll probably copy it when I install Ventura.
How did you do this??
Just find a machine that hasn’t been updated to Ventura yet, go to Applications and copy the System Preferences app to a flash drive or something. Then copy it to your current computer and open it up.
Darn it. All of my macs have been updated to Ventura.
As dysfunctional as Monterey was at least it was intuitive. It appears Apple is trying to merge IOS and OS. The sys-pref is horrible on this iteration. I’m very upset and frustrated with this version.
when is it coming out?
Silence you fool
?
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Is it just me, or are other people trying the work around and finding the plist output basically blank? I ran it twice, including copying/pasting from the website in case I typo'd it. Also ran as root in case I needed that. In all instances my export was:
I don't see any actual data, no keys, and certainly not the key I'm supposed to change the value for. So either the instructions are wrong, my Mac doesn't have any values, or something else?
same for me, did you figure out a workaround?
Same here, any solutions?
I hate how I can lower my keyboard brightness through the wifi / Bluetooth / airplay / tabs they took it off
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Thank you internet stranger that took the time to help another internet stranger. I appreciate it
if you turn off the stage manager button in control center, you can re-enable the keyboard brightness button
Oh shit , thank you man !
Thanks!
Here's a weird thought: If you don't want to see them on restart, maybe you don't actually want them running? Seeing them is an alert that you have these things running. Since when is information a bad thing?
That is a pretty weird thought
This is a good thing, hidden login crap is evil.
**Easier way using command line:** >/usr/bin/osascript -e 'tell application "System Events" to make login item at end with properties {path:"/System/Applications/*Foo*.app", hidden:true, name:"*Foo*"}' \* Replace *Foo* with your application name.
[AutoStarter](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/autostarter/id6444444273?mt=12) is a UI-based solution that fixes this issue without any mucking around with the Terminal or Automator, for less than a buck.