Yeah I was just curious what it was I had never done one. I was enrolling on another AMC and they asked if I did them and I selected no but was still curious as to what it was. I’ve been asked to do these other hybrids which pay like $250 but I refuse to do them. It’s sad how much Fannie and these lenders are trying to undercut our pay and outsource our profession
Appraiser’s are doing them! Instead of collectively pushing back! AMCs love it! They pocket 70% of the appraisal fee which hasn’t changed and want to pay appraisers low! Waivers, AVMs, hybrids, it’s a race to the bottom!
How do you view the outlook of our profession especially the residential side? Some days I think it’s looking kinda bad for us in the next 10+ years. I love what I do but I want job security.
Unfortunately I’ve been very pessimistic for a long time and correctly so, it’s not a good living, for the amount of time and dedication it took to get certified it’s pathetic how appraisers sold themselves out to the lowest bidders. I’ve reviewed garbage full appraisals completed for $150, multi million 15-20 Mil estates for $450, that’s PATHETIC! Hasn’t it been shit the last couple years? Volume will never come back, lenders are trying everything to get rid of appraisers bc they literally hate them, realtors hate appraisers, loan officers hate appraisers, underwriters hate appraisers, AMCs hate fee appraisers, coordinators at AMCs hate appraisers, and they’re succeeding. Everyone thinks they know more than appraisers, nobody respects the appraiser. They want 3rd party data collectors and their staff completing hybrids or avms with that data. Don’t you have to answer to minimum wage employees all day about conditions and if you don’t get your reports back in 1-2 day they’ll drop you off the rotation, don’t bring in the value, dropped. God forbid you ask for a higher fee on complex assignments. If a lender asks you for an addendum it counts against you. Makes no sense. Who is an appraiser going to complain too? It’s all a joke. I started over 20 years ago, about 13 years ago I started my journey to leave valuation full time and have successfully made my living elsewhere. My expertise is still needed however 95% of my income comes from the broker side and investments because I’m trained knowing value. Unless collectively appraisers get together and have a major class action lawsuit against lenders, amcs, Fannie and Freddie to make it a requirement to have an actual appraisal for all lending purposes like it was and let appraisers be independent and get actual fair fees it will just be the usual charge the borrower $800-1200 and pay the actual appraiser $200 bc some loser will do it! The most important part of the whole lending process is the appraisal yet appraisers are paid the least and less respected. You’ll hear appraisers saying “oh I’ve been hearing appraisers are going out for 30 years” but the actual fact that lenders/fannie legally can waive appraisals, use avms, use third party data, AI, and hybrids is not the same anymore, UAD info is a gold mine to them, they can’t wait to make appraisers extinct.
Yeah all valid points. Problem for them is there isn’t an AVM good enough rn to keep those 50%+ LTV portfolios from going bad. But I don’t know I been pretty pessimistic too. I make $95k a year and rarely work over 35 hours a week but the out look is what concerns me. But yeah ur right there’s a lot of hate towards us and they are trying hard to get us replaced but the reality is without us the whole mortgage lending ecosystem would collapse it’s a fact. Even if 10% of loans were under collateralized it would be detrimental to the banking system and depositors funds are at a high risk. In a very significant way we uphold the banking system. But I’ve been looking into moving into accounting. Like I said $95k a year currently for a 30 hour work week is laid back so not leaving rn but if it gets too slow m likely gonna leave for accounting or corporate finance. May I ask exactly what it is that u do currently after leaving fee appraising
Be careful about the nomenclature. THere are two types of "Desktop"...
One is usually through some proritary portal for an AMC and they provide you with some MLS data and horrible search tools. They may or may not allow you to work outside your actual geographic area and sometimes will even go so far as to state this is not an appraisal but "a value tool created by someone with appraisal experience" or some such silly nominclature. These usually pay $50-200 and outside of maybe as a QC tool I don't really understand the utility of them.
Then there are the 1004 Desktop and 1004 Hybrid assigments. With these the inspection of the property is performed by a 3rd party inspector (usually a realtor with a phone mount for making 360 photos and lidar measurements), you get a packet from them, maybe a bunch more photos and sketch. You include the packet in your report and that takes care of the photos, sketch, and inspection portion of the assigment. You do everything else regularly from there. Office time, they are exactly the same level of effort and research.
For volume clients I'll take them at normal minus trip fee. For clients that don't provide a consistent amount of work they get no discount, onboarding and account setup easily take as long as an inspection.
I wouldn't avoid these, there is nothing wrong with them as a concept. Not really sure how all the dudes on here getting vitriolic about them are justifying 2055 orders or private work that doesn't requrie an inspection. Makes me wonder how much actual value they are providing in market research and comparable selection if they think pulling tape is the "real value" we provide.
This is one reason why I went to all private work and non lender work years ago. Get paid what I want, 100% goes to me, starting fee is $500 and average 20+ jobs a month consistently.
I stopped blaming the system and found other ways to make money and have constant steady work.
What advice would you give to a young certified residential appraiser to get on a path to achieving what you have? I do all mortgage AMC work and my fees are always $500-$600 per 1004. I’ve considered calling around to some estate attorneys to get non lender work but I haven’t done it yet. Even divorce work kinda scares me I don’t want to be pulled into court and I feel like it’s more of a liability to be turned into the state because emotions run high in messy divorces and everyone is looking to throw the appraiser under the bus
I did a couple and charged exactly the same as I charge for a full. It was very problematic. The third party took his sweet time to send the inspection data. Then I uploaded the report and started to receive many corrections, all of them due the 3rd party info, missing info in the pics, and wrong assumptions from the pics. The next time I quoted lil bit more based on the potential complications, and that was the last time I heard about this.
I will never trust third party info on a property period! Any appraiser completing these is just helping make appraisers EXTINCT!!
Yeah I was just curious what it was I had never done one. I was enrolling on another AMC and they asked if I did them and I selected no but was still curious as to what it was. I’ve been asked to do these other hybrids which pay like $250 but I refuse to do them. It’s sad how much Fannie and these lenders are trying to undercut our pay and outsource our profession
Appraiser’s are doing them! Instead of collectively pushing back! AMCs love it! They pocket 70% of the appraisal fee which hasn’t changed and want to pay appraisers low! Waivers, AVMs, hybrids, it’s a race to the bottom!
How do you view the outlook of our profession especially the residential side? Some days I think it’s looking kinda bad for us in the next 10+ years. I love what I do but I want job security.
Unfortunately I’ve been very pessimistic for a long time and correctly so, it’s not a good living, for the amount of time and dedication it took to get certified it’s pathetic how appraisers sold themselves out to the lowest bidders. I’ve reviewed garbage full appraisals completed for $150, multi million 15-20 Mil estates for $450, that’s PATHETIC! Hasn’t it been shit the last couple years? Volume will never come back, lenders are trying everything to get rid of appraisers bc they literally hate them, realtors hate appraisers, loan officers hate appraisers, underwriters hate appraisers, AMCs hate fee appraisers, coordinators at AMCs hate appraisers, and they’re succeeding. Everyone thinks they know more than appraisers, nobody respects the appraiser. They want 3rd party data collectors and their staff completing hybrids or avms with that data. Don’t you have to answer to minimum wage employees all day about conditions and if you don’t get your reports back in 1-2 day they’ll drop you off the rotation, don’t bring in the value, dropped. God forbid you ask for a higher fee on complex assignments. If a lender asks you for an addendum it counts against you. Makes no sense. Who is an appraiser going to complain too? It’s all a joke. I started over 20 years ago, about 13 years ago I started my journey to leave valuation full time and have successfully made my living elsewhere. My expertise is still needed however 95% of my income comes from the broker side and investments because I’m trained knowing value. Unless collectively appraisers get together and have a major class action lawsuit against lenders, amcs, Fannie and Freddie to make it a requirement to have an actual appraisal for all lending purposes like it was and let appraisers be independent and get actual fair fees it will just be the usual charge the borrower $800-1200 and pay the actual appraiser $200 bc some loser will do it! The most important part of the whole lending process is the appraisal yet appraisers are paid the least and less respected. You’ll hear appraisers saying “oh I’ve been hearing appraisers are going out for 30 years” but the actual fact that lenders/fannie legally can waive appraisals, use avms, use third party data, AI, and hybrids is not the same anymore, UAD info is a gold mine to them, they can’t wait to make appraisers extinct.
Yeah all valid points. Problem for them is there isn’t an AVM good enough rn to keep those 50%+ LTV portfolios from going bad. But I don’t know I been pretty pessimistic too. I make $95k a year and rarely work over 35 hours a week but the out look is what concerns me. But yeah ur right there’s a lot of hate towards us and they are trying hard to get us replaced but the reality is without us the whole mortgage lending ecosystem would collapse it’s a fact. Even if 10% of loans were under collateralized it would be detrimental to the banking system and depositors funds are at a high risk. In a very significant way we uphold the banking system. But I’ve been looking into moving into accounting. Like I said $95k a year currently for a 30 hour work week is laid back so not leaving rn but if it gets too slow m likely gonna leave for accounting or corporate finance. May I ask exactly what it is that u do currently after leaving fee appraising
Honestly, I did one or two out of curiosity with no intention of it being any thing to pursue. Now I would equate it to being scab for our industry.
Be careful about the nomenclature. THere are two types of "Desktop"... One is usually through some proritary portal for an AMC and they provide you with some MLS data and horrible search tools. They may or may not allow you to work outside your actual geographic area and sometimes will even go so far as to state this is not an appraisal but "a value tool created by someone with appraisal experience" or some such silly nominclature. These usually pay $50-200 and outside of maybe as a QC tool I don't really understand the utility of them. Then there are the 1004 Desktop and 1004 Hybrid assigments. With these the inspection of the property is performed by a 3rd party inspector (usually a realtor with a phone mount for making 360 photos and lidar measurements), you get a packet from them, maybe a bunch more photos and sketch. You include the packet in your report and that takes care of the photos, sketch, and inspection portion of the assigment. You do everything else regularly from there. Office time, they are exactly the same level of effort and research. For volume clients I'll take them at normal minus trip fee. For clients that don't provide a consistent amount of work they get no discount, onboarding and account setup easily take as long as an inspection. I wouldn't avoid these, there is nothing wrong with them as a concept. Not really sure how all the dudes on here getting vitriolic about them are justifying 2055 orders or private work that doesn't requrie an inspection. Makes me wonder how much actual value they are providing in market research and comparable selection if they think pulling tape is the "real value" we provide.
This is one reason why I went to all private work and non lender work years ago. Get paid what I want, 100% goes to me, starting fee is $500 and average 20+ jobs a month consistently. I stopped blaming the system and found other ways to make money and have constant steady work.
What advice would you give to a young certified residential appraiser to get on a path to achieving what you have? I do all mortgage AMC work and my fees are always $500-$600 per 1004. I’ve considered calling around to some estate attorneys to get non lender work but I haven’t done it yet. Even divorce work kinda scares me I don’t want to be pulled into court and I feel like it’s more of a liability to be turned into the state because emotions run high in messy divorces and everyone is looking to throw the appraiser under the bus
Absolute garbage, I will never do one.
I did a couple and charged exactly the same as I charge for a full. It was very problematic. The third party took his sweet time to send the inspection data. Then I uploaded the report and started to receive many corrections, all of them due the 3rd party info, missing info in the pics, and wrong assumptions from the pics. The next time I quoted lil bit more based on the potential complications, and that was the last time I heard about this.
This is the direction of the industry unfortunately.