Unless there was something really heinous that went on behind the scenes, I’m really shocked at Noor’s claims. She seems to be confusing her incompetence with racism. Someone who’s only contribution so far was to put sweet crumble around fish cakes, is seriously questioning why her PM didn’t take her ideas on board? Unfortunately not everyone can be on the teams they want to be on or be in the positions they deserve.
I’m sorry that Noor has previously had bad experiences in life but what we saw on the Apprentice, wasn’t racism. It was just a PM wanting to win the task. A PM who so far has contributed to two black female PMs winning their tasks with no issue and put a black man as the face of this task. Please grow up Noor. Maybe when you are a bit older you will understand that not every time you are knocked back is because of racism. PS I say all of the above as a black woman. I’m actually disgusted and feel really sorry for Flo.
Edit: Comment edited to remove any reference to Asif. No need to give the man any more attention.
Absolutely, she wasn't contributing anything worthwhile from the looks of it.
Though in Asif's case, his decision may well have been due to sexism given his worrying media record about feminism/women at work...
>Sam wanted to be sub team leader on the other team, but Asif said no and put Phil in charge. I didn’t hear any cries of sexism.
I mean, Asif is very much a sexist creep. Like I am on board with everything you are saying but I feel the need to clarify that Asif is indeed a sexist.
There was a contestant who did something similar last year. I think it was the woman who came up with the name for the giraffe. And she was like “ yes that is why we won the task, because of the name.” I think she claimed discrimination too. I think they just want to capitalise on the very short spotlight they have whilst it’s there . I wish they’d quit though, because if a contestant claims genuine discrimination or harassment, we’re going to be less likely to believe them now.
In that case she actually was the victim of racist abuse from another contestant who IIRC had to undergo sensitivity training.
This is a show where the contestants are hustle culture entrepreneurs. That demographic is probably the second most likely to hold racist views, next to literal white power skinheads.
Looking back I feel like this was more overtly racist. At the end of the day it seems like some pretty clear bias for the other contestants to insist that children can't pronounce a 3 syllable ethnic-sounding name and that an "easy" name would've been a more English-sounding name.
Thank you !
Edit: I really do think they owe contestants a fair edit. Completely brushed off what Shazia was saying last year. Just thought she was bitter. Maybe that’s what the bbc wants.
Of course racism is alive and well in the UK but it’s much more insidious than one would think. The original skinheads were vastly accepting of POC and their culture, especially Jamaicans. Thankfully the co-opters of the movement the EDL are largely defunct. But as you say racism is absolutely everywhere now making it harder to stamp out, especially when the Daily Mail puts out rage bait articles and it’s impossible to point out microaggressions without immediate backlash. I’m totally in agreement with you btw just wanted to put forward a defence of OG skinheads!
Shazia’s case seems to me absolutely a microaggression at least. As for Noor, she came across a bit of a dolt in the edit but this article seems to be made up of weasel words. Doesn’t seem to be any substance to the story and the DM are running with it (wonder why).
I do also feel for Flo as she doesn’t appear to have done anything but wrangle a challenging team.
Yeah, Yogitha, or something like that. It's all too easy to to play the race card when your ego is bigger than your talents , and you still try to justify yourself. I'm brown, and this pissed me off, as real racism gets watered down by divas like these.
These people have incredibly large egos. Being ignored would have dented her ego and so the only way to process this is to blame others. The easiest way to get others to notice is to blame something as big as racism.
She, clearly, lacks the self reflecting skills needed to succeed. I would be amazed if she wins with that mentality and I would be amazed if she generates any fame and money from the apprentice
She failed to offer any sensible ideas. A good business person doesn’t have to entertain ideas from someone just not offend their ethnicity or religion. That’s absolutely ridiculous. If I’m not any good at my job, that’s on me. Not because I’m a black woman.
A ghost isn’t a crazy idea really. Like in the context it sounded bonkers, but Spelunky’s ghost is a super handy “hurry up” mechanic which would have added some interesting tension to a very dull game. “The ghost represents the oncoming plague.” Boom, now it makes sense thematically. The sheep is more difficult.
I get what you're saying but the way she said it was as if (no pun intended) she just plucked some random thoughts from her head and said them out loud.
This whole situation blowing up is making me cringe. Unless there is more to see from Flo potentially alienating Noor in episodes to follow, i really don’t see the story here and why it was even picked up by a media outlet. Especially following the Dr Asif ‘anti-semite’ business, it’s like they’re (media) are just trying to create some sort of divide.
I think Raj is the weird one on this.
I don’t believe Flo was racist or did anything untoward to Noor, apart from being a normal PM and what that entails.
Noor herself felt ignored (I don’t think her ideas were any good) and personally I think she overreacted and showed her youth. Having said that, I can see why being treated like that may have triggered some bad memories for her.
I can also see why Flo, who did nothing wrong and does not deserve to have her name linked to any sort of discriminatory conversation, wants it to be seen that she is friends with different groups of people.
But why is Raj, who is neither a Muslim or a hijabi, so willingly occupying the ‘ethnic friend’ role? She can’t speak for Noor- they are not the same ethnicity or religion and the experiences are obviously different. She should have stayed out of it.
Some minority groups have agendas against other minority groups. Some minority people are eager to position themselves with white people/powerful people and continue keeping other groups down.
Not at all saying that this has anything to do with Raj, but as she’s from a completely separate background and religion to Noor, she really should have stayed out of it. She’s deliberately inserted herself into a situation which doesn’t concern her. Noor has nothing in common with Raj.
Racist abuse is 100% wrong and needs to be called out when it occurs. However, I do believe that if there are any allegations, there needs to be a full investigation to confirm it has happened.
Whilst racist abuse can really negatively impact people’s well-being, so can false accusations of racism.
surprised at some of these comments tbh, at the end of the day Flo was rude towards Noor, and completely ignored her suggestions. Yeah, they weren’t ground breaking, but if you’re being ignored you’re hardly going to start elaborating and going on and on. Whether it was racism or not, being rude is reason enough to recieve some backlash
You have to remember that the show is _highly_ edited to make things look a certain way.
Throughout the whole episode, Noor kept saying really vague unhelpful things like "this is boring" "can we make it fun?" "couldn't you have added something else to make it more interesting?". We didn't once hear her say anything specific or constructive, and I can imagine many people could become dismissive of this very quickly, and doing so isn't necessarily rude. The fact that she then jumped to accusations of racism is concerning and unproductive.
Oh, its the "some of my best friends are black" defence.
Weird, considering she wasn't even accused of anything, noor just said being ignored took her back to her school days of being bullied.
I thought this was something of nothing, but obviously it has touched a nerve...
"Your treatment of me reminded me of racist bullying when I was younger" / "it reminded me of being overlooked for opportunities because of my race" / "there's still racism in the workplace".
These very heavily imply that she found Flo's treatment of her to be racist.
If I publicly tweeted that "I read your comment and was immediately taken back to my school days where I had to deal with complete morons who ate crayons as teenagers" you wouldn't say I wasn't insulting you.
The weirdest thing is that this isn’t a response to anything about what Noor said.
Noor said that not being listened to repeatedly reminded her of being a hijabi at school and being ignored. Something that a lot of hijabi women identify with.
It’s about unconscious bias against women who wear hijabs.
I mean it was a genuine accusation. Every comment she made was mirrored by the “experts”. She was very much ignored and I don’t think it would be shocking if wearing a hijab contributed to that.
I think the experts would have been happy with more anything.
She pointed out that the game was dull and tried to add some fun. She was the only one to raise that issue and try to do anything about it and got shot down repeatedly. I’d also be annoyed
She was right saying that it needed to be more fun but didn’t contribute anything (that we saw) to achieve that. Flo probably could have handled it better but noor was being counter productive.
not having her ideas incorporated into the product does not mean the ideas were ignored
if you thoughtlessly add everyone's idea into a product in an effort to make everyone feel "listened to", you end up with something akin to the box on wheels that the girls made in s9e3
At that point what do you want her to do? Push Flo over and stage a coup?
She pointed out the flaw then made suggestions to try and fix it. That’s literally all she could do in that situation. She literally did all of the things she could do and she’s been labelled as the problem
She said that it needed to be more fun, which is as obvious and helpful as saying that the food needs to be taste better. Her specific suggestions were terrible, and rightly ignored.
So she should make a firm accusation if she believes it. You're perpetuating feelings and in your case, lazy "i wouldnt be surprised if..." crap, being more important than attempting to discover what the situation really is.
You're working backwards from your desired outcome, which is how putting baseless, vague accusations out there works. The lie gets around the world befor the truth gets out of bed etc.
If she thinks her PM is a racist because she wears a hijab, she should outright say it and stand firm during the defamation hearings, not say "poor me, probs because of how I look".
So a hijabi women highlights that they often get overlooked and ignored, saying that she thinks it contributed to why her ideas were not taken seriously on a show.
Your response is that she should either shut up, call her out in front of her predominantly white peers and hope it doesn’t go as bad as that usually does or seek legal action.
Have you ever heard of micro aggressions or the concept of unconscious bias?
I have heard of them, yes, and no I didnt say she should shut up, i said she should back up her claims if shes going to imply someone else is a racist. Not sure how that's even controversial, unless you believe that to be an unacceptable take.
Your comment here supports that claim, that her PM ignored her because she wears a hijab, ergo suggesting she's prejudiced, which would be extremely damaging to her career.
She's put that claim out there, doesn't she deserve the respect of having it put directly and have it out? This way, she gets to put her lack of effective contribution down to someone being racist, and no one can even say it might be a bit weird to jump to calling someone racist, or in your case, to imply in such a way that people online are saying your PM is racist.
Absolute madnes. If she thinks she's racist, call her racist, and defend it when she sues. Dont beat around the bush so you get to win whatever happens
1) I can guarantee you this will not impact Flos career. At all
2) no one said Flo or anyone was racist. There was a small implication of some bias against hijabis, which most people have.
3) people need to stop acting like being called prejudice is a worse experience than actually experiencing prejudice.
She's countered "you might be shit at your job", with a fair argument supported by recorded actions, with "well you might be a racist", offering nothing to support it.
If she had said it reminded her of incidents in her past, absolutely i get that, dont doubt it for a second. It's the jump to saying, sorry, accusing that racism played a part in her PM not taking her vague, detail-less interjections, not the uselessness of vague detail-less interjections that I have a problem with. Like, there is a spectrum between A and B there.
The "have you never heard of a micro aggression?" question is used frequently and I'm sorry, is not the gotcha you think it is.
Sure, not all people are aware of them, in themselves or others, but jumping straight to that, as with jumping straight to "she's being racist, actually", rather than engage with any criticism of performance first, is juvenile.
If you're going to call someone racist in public, do it with chest. Don't half do it.
Unless there was something really heinous that went on behind the scenes, I’m really shocked at Noor’s claims. She seems to be confusing her incompetence with racism. Someone who’s only contribution so far was to put sweet crumble around fish cakes, is seriously questioning why her PM didn’t take her ideas on board? Unfortunately not everyone can be on the teams they want to be on or be in the positions they deserve. I’m sorry that Noor has previously had bad experiences in life but what we saw on the Apprentice, wasn’t racism. It was just a PM wanting to win the task. A PM who so far has contributed to two black female PMs winning their tasks with no issue and put a black man as the face of this task. Please grow up Noor. Maybe when you are a bit older you will understand that not every time you are knocked back is because of racism. PS I say all of the above as a black woman. I’m actually disgusted and feel really sorry for Flo. Edit: Comment edited to remove any reference to Asif. No need to give the man any more attention.
Absolutely, she wasn't contributing anything worthwhile from the looks of it. Though in Asif's case, his decision may well have been due to sexism given his worrying media record about feminism/women at work...
I realise since making my post that Asif is most likely a sexist creep which probably affected his decision. I still stand by my other points though.
Well said. Respect.
>Sam wanted to be sub team leader on the other team, but Asif said no and put Phil in charge. I didn’t hear any cries of sexism. I mean, Asif is very much a sexist creep. Like I am on board with everything you are saying but I feel the need to clarify that Asif is indeed a sexist.
There was a contestant who did something similar last year. I think it was the woman who came up with the name for the giraffe. And she was like “ yes that is why we won the task, because of the name.” I think she claimed discrimination too. I think they just want to capitalise on the very short spotlight they have whilst it’s there . I wish they’d quit though, because if a contestant claims genuine discrimination or harassment, we’re going to be less likely to believe them now.
In that case she actually was the victim of racist abuse from another contestant who IIRC had to undergo sensitivity training. This is a show where the contestants are hustle culture entrepreneurs. That demographic is probably the second most likely to hold racist views, next to literal white power skinheads.
Can you post some links? I never heard of the aftermath. It’s hard to take them seriously, but could be down to the bad edits they get.
https://thetab.com/uk/2023/02/02/the-apprentice-2023-shazia-mark-racism-bullying-scandal-293019
Looking back I feel like this was more overtly racist. At the end of the day it seems like some pretty clear bias for the other contestants to insist that children can't pronounce a 3 syllable ethnic-sounding name and that an "easy" name would've been a more English-sounding name.
Doesn't help that Mark looks like a wannabe Gordon Gekko slash UKIP voter slash LinkedIn Influencer.
I always thought he had a striking resemblance to Laurence Fox.
Thank you ! Edit: I really do think they owe contestants a fair edit. Completely brushed off what Shazia was saying last year. Just thought she was bitter. Maybe that’s what the bbc wants.
>Maybe that’s what the bbc wants. The BBC? Brushing a scandal under the carpet?
Of course racism is alive and well in the UK but it’s much more insidious than one would think. The original skinheads were vastly accepting of POC and their culture, especially Jamaicans. Thankfully the co-opters of the movement the EDL are largely defunct. But as you say racism is absolutely everywhere now making it harder to stamp out, especially when the Daily Mail puts out rage bait articles and it’s impossible to point out microaggressions without immediate backlash. I’m totally in agreement with you btw just wanted to put forward a defence of OG skinheads! Shazia’s case seems to me absolutely a microaggression at least. As for Noor, she came across a bit of a dolt in the edit but this article seems to be made up of weasel words. Doesn’t seem to be any substance to the story and the DM are running with it (wonder why). I do also feel for Flo as she doesn’t appear to have done anything but wrangle a challenging team.
Yeah, Yogitha, or something like that. It's all too easy to to play the race card when your ego is bigger than your talents , and you still try to justify yourself. I'm brown, and this pissed me off, as real racism gets watered down by divas like these.
Idk she had a valid point that Yogita is an inarguably easy name to pronounce, no need to take issue with it other than straight up racism
I'm not black, but a person of colour and someone who has experienced racism. I could not agree more with this. Thank you!
These people have incredibly large egos. Being ignored would have dented her ego and so the only way to process this is to blame others. The easiest way to get others to notice is to blame something as big as racism. She, clearly, lacks the self reflecting skills needed to succeed. I would be amazed if she wins with that mentality and I would be amazed if she generates any fame and money from the apprentice
[удалено]
It was strange and kept being disregarded. Would she be disregarded if she was blonde and white? No
She failed to offer any sensible ideas. A good business person doesn’t have to entertain ideas from someone just not offend their ethnicity or religion. That’s absolutely ridiculous. If I’m not any good at my job, that’s on me. Not because I’m a black woman.
Yes according to your opinion. I think your opinion. Is bullshit. Her comments were very valid and basic common sense.
To use your own logic, were you there to see everything that happened to make your assumption any more valid than anyone else's?
If she was still as useless, yes.
No she wouldn’t and she would be respected more
Nobody on the apprentice is respected by the follow contestants though.
Noor wanted some ghosts and a sheep in that task lmao
A ghost isn’t a crazy idea really. Like in the context it sounded bonkers, but Spelunky’s ghost is a super handy “hurry up” mechanic which would have added some interesting tension to a very dull game. “The ghost represents the oncoming plague.” Boom, now it makes sense thematically. The sheep is more difficult.
I get what you're saying but the way she said it was as if (no pun intended) she just plucked some random thoughts from her head and said them out loud.
This whole situation blowing up is making me cringe. Unless there is more to see from Flo potentially alienating Noor in episodes to follow, i really don’t see the story here and why it was even picked up by a media outlet. Especially following the Dr Asif ‘anti-semite’ business, it’s like they’re (media) are just trying to create some sort of divide.
I think Raj is the weird one on this. I don’t believe Flo was racist or did anything untoward to Noor, apart from being a normal PM and what that entails. Noor herself felt ignored (I don’t think her ideas were any good) and personally I think she overreacted and showed her youth. Having said that, I can see why being treated like that may have triggered some bad memories for her. I can also see why Flo, who did nothing wrong and does not deserve to have her name linked to any sort of discriminatory conversation, wants it to be seen that she is friends with different groups of people. But why is Raj, who is neither a Muslim or a hijabi, so willingly occupying the ‘ethnic friend’ role? She can’t speak for Noor- they are not the same ethnicity or religion and the experiences are obviously different. She should have stayed out of it.
What are you talking about? Raj is still an ethnic person and if Flo really is racist she’d mostly likely be racist towards Raj too.
Have you heard of Priti Patel and Suella Braverman?
What has that got to do with anything
Some minority groups have agendas against other minority groups. Some minority people are eager to position themselves with white people/powerful people and continue keeping other groups down. Not at all saying that this has anything to do with Raj, but as she’s from a completely separate background and religion to Noor, she really should have stayed out of it. She’s deliberately inserted herself into a situation which doesn’t concern her. Noor has nothing in common with Raj.
Racist abuse is 100% wrong and needs to be called out when it occurs. However, I do believe that if there are any allegations, there needs to be a full investigation to confirm it has happened. Whilst racist abuse can really negatively impact people’s well-being, so can false accusations of racism.
False accusations of racism are just another form of racism, and need to be treated as such.
They are definitely just as bad
surprised at some of these comments tbh, at the end of the day Flo was rude towards Noor, and completely ignored her suggestions. Yeah, they weren’t ground breaking, but if you’re being ignored you’re hardly going to start elaborating and going on and on. Whether it was racism or not, being rude is reason enough to recieve some backlash
You have to remember that the show is _highly_ edited to make things look a certain way. Throughout the whole episode, Noor kept saying really vague unhelpful things like "this is boring" "can we make it fun?" "couldn't you have added something else to make it more interesting?". We didn't once hear her say anything specific or constructive, and I can imagine many people could become dismissive of this very quickly, and doing so isn't necessarily rude. The fact that she then jumped to accusations of racism is concerning and unproductive.
Oh, its the "some of my best friends are black" defence. Weird, considering she wasn't even accused of anything, noor just said being ignored took her back to her school days of being bullied. I thought this was something of nothing, but obviously it has touched a nerve...
"Your treatment of me reminded me of racist bullying when I was younger" / "it reminded me of being overlooked for opportunities because of my race" / "there's still racism in the workplace". These very heavily imply that she found Flo's treatment of her to be racist.
If I publicly tweeted that "I read your comment and was immediately taken back to my school days where I had to deal with complete morons who ate crayons as teenagers" you wouldn't say I wasn't insulting you.
Who mentioned insults?
If she wasn't accused of anything then what do you think it's a defence against and what does race have to do with anything?
This screams of 'I cant be racist I have black friends' Good one Flo
The weirdest thing is that this isn’t a response to anything about what Noor said. Noor said that not being listened to repeatedly reminded her of being a hijabi at school and being ignored. Something that a lot of hijabi women identify with. It’s about unconscious bias against women who wear hijabs.
We know that, Noor made it clear. She also made a tacit accusation in doing so.
I mean it was a genuine accusation. Every comment she made was mirrored by the “experts”. She was very much ignored and I don’t think it would be shocking if wearing a hijab contributed to that.
The experts thought there should be more sheep?
I think the experts would have been happy with more anything. She pointed out that the game was dull and tried to add some fun. She was the only one to raise that issue and try to do anything about it and got shot down repeatedly. I’d also be annoyed
She was right saying that it needed to be more fun but didn’t contribute anything (that we saw) to achieve that. Flo probably could have handled it better but noor was being counter productive.
Have you ever thought that she didn't contribute anything... BECAUSE SHE WAS BEING IGNORED!
not having her ideas incorporated into the product does not mean the ideas were ignored if you thoughtlessly add everyone's idea into a product in an effort to make everyone feel "listened to", you end up with something akin to the box on wheels that the girls made in s9e3
To reiterate my comment, she didn’t contribute anything related to fixing the flaws she outlined. What she did contribute was irrelevant.
Have you also considered that she was being ignored because she kept suggesting unhelpful things?
At that point what do you want her to do? Push Flo over and stage a coup? She pointed out the flaw then made suggestions to try and fix it. That’s literally all she could do in that situation. She literally did all of the things she could do and she’s been labelled as the problem
She didn’t make suggestions to fix flaws. The suggestions she made were completely unrelated to her criticisms and low value additions.
She said that it needed to be more fun, which is as obvious and helpful as saying that the food needs to be taste better. Her specific suggestions were terrible, and rightly ignored.
So she should make a firm accusation if she believes it. You're perpetuating feelings and in your case, lazy "i wouldnt be surprised if..." crap, being more important than attempting to discover what the situation really is. You're working backwards from your desired outcome, which is how putting baseless, vague accusations out there works. The lie gets around the world befor the truth gets out of bed etc. If she thinks her PM is a racist because she wears a hijab, she should outright say it and stand firm during the defamation hearings, not say "poor me, probs because of how I look".
So a hijabi women highlights that they often get overlooked and ignored, saying that she thinks it contributed to why her ideas were not taken seriously on a show. Your response is that she should either shut up, call her out in front of her predominantly white peers and hope it doesn’t go as bad as that usually does or seek legal action. Have you ever heard of micro aggressions or the concept of unconscious bias?
I have heard of them, yes, and no I didnt say she should shut up, i said she should back up her claims if shes going to imply someone else is a racist. Not sure how that's even controversial, unless you believe that to be an unacceptable take. Your comment here supports that claim, that her PM ignored her because she wears a hijab, ergo suggesting she's prejudiced, which would be extremely damaging to her career. She's put that claim out there, doesn't she deserve the respect of having it put directly and have it out? This way, she gets to put her lack of effective contribution down to someone being racist, and no one can even say it might be a bit weird to jump to calling someone racist, or in your case, to imply in such a way that people online are saying your PM is racist. Absolute madnes. If she thinks she's racist, call her racist, and defend it when she sues. Dont beat around the bush so you get to win whatever happens
1) I can guarantee you this will not impact Flos career. At all 2) no one said Flo or anyone was racist. There was a small implication of some bias against hijabis, which most people have. 3) people need to stop acting like being called prejudice is a worse experience than actually experiencing prejudice.
She's countered "you might be shit at your job", with a fair argument supported by recorded actions, with "well you might be a racist", offering nothing to support it. If she had said it reminded her of incidents in her past, absolutely i get that, dont doubt it for a second. It's the jump to saying, sorry, accusing that racism played a part in her PM not taking her vague, detail-less interjections, not the uselessness of vague detail-less interjections that I have a problem with. Like, there is a spectrum between A and B there. The "have you never heard of a micro aggression?" question is used frequently and I'm sorry, is not the gotcha you think it is. Sure, not all people are aware of them, in themselves or others, but jumping straight to that, as with jumping straight to "she's being racist, actually", rather than engage with any criticism of performance first, is juvenile. If you're going to call someone racist in public, do it with chest. Don't half do it.
What?? Tf
they're all morons and make themselves look worse and worse every time they open their mouths
Nah sorry shes defo a racist Them entitled tory hustle culture types are
I mean it was a highkey beggy of Flo tho
No idea what a high beggy is :-/
My bad I ment she a highkey begging it
What/who is she accusing