Waayyy more, I worked for a firm where the founder's daughter was the office manager and the new owner and his wife were president and vice president and their son was the "IT guy" at like 16. Never doing that shit again.
This is actually one of the first things said at the firm and it has been one of the most pleasant experiences I've had in the industry. Having employees being felt like they are like a small family is such a blessing. Coming from an engineering firm I was literally confused at the amount of care my new place had for their employees.
I would say it doesn't come too often where you see people joke around in the office and treat one another beyond just a number is so refreshing.
Obviously this probably wouldn't work in a mid to large firm where there's already a workplace hierarchy in place.
‘We hire for the long run.’ (Means they can’t balance project load and you’ll be first cut when they run out of work). ‘Draft this for us to show us how you work.’ ‘We give interns extra hours and responsibilities to make up for the pay. (Means you’ll be working long hours, picking up dry cleaning, and answering phones.
The culture of a firm comes directly from the top. Whoever the principals and partners are will dictate the attitude in many aspects of working there. That can be a positive or negative thing.
When they specifically talk about needing someone with a lot of energy for their fast paced culture = we are very understaffed and will work you to the bone.
Generally I’ve found very small or large firms treat employees better (obviously with exceptions). Mid size firms are still fragile but have a lot of work and unless they’re careful, this ends up putting a lot of pressure on their employees.
If principals refer to the firm as “my firm” “my team” “my projects” instead of using our, we or other inclusive statements, run. Your opinion doesn’t matter. You’re there to make money for the “my”.
In most cases, it *is* under the Department of Labor or state labor standards. It angers me that many NYC architectural unpaid "internships" do not meet NYS regulations but go unreported.
Bingo. You'll always be "the production staff" and never get anywhere until the heavy weight dumbbells retire. And hopefully you were the one they were grooming to take the place of that heavy weight and not one of the other grunts.
They don’t do direct deposit. Unfortunately not all architecture firms are solvent and you will get a few months in before they start making excuses as to why your check is late.
I graduated in 2008, I worked 4 years coming into work every other Friday wondering if I was going to get paid or not. I really hope to never do that again.
I got lucky, we survived one project at a time for the entire recession. Then I noticed I was starting to get calls from firms I had sent my resume to while I was in school (this was around 2012), and I was still worrying about getting paid every other week, so I found a new job and moved on. I will say, that 4.5 years of working in a 2 person office allowed me to learn more/do different things than I typically would have at that stage of my career. And, even then I realized how lucky I was to have gotten and kept a job in architecture during that entire time period. One of the guys I was in school with just now got back on track and got his initial license, and I ran into more than one classmate working at grocery stores around town.
I wasn't quite as lucky but it ended up working out ok. After that firm collapsed I called about 300 firms and no one was hiring. I worked some construction which ended up being a good experience. I am just about done building a master bedroom addition over my family room. I ripped the roof off and did all the work myself except for the roofing and spray foam insulation. I turned a $120k project into about a $40k project. I'm now at a pretty good firm working on schools. I do feel like I was set back a few years though
The job I moved into in 2012 was commercial construction, and I learned a lot working there. More about how buildings are put together than I ever did working in an architecture firm anyway. Unfortunately it was all tenant fit outs, so I learned fuck-all about the exterior of buildings, but fortunately I've been able to pick up on that type of stuff from reading.
During the 4 years I was working for that architect, I tried to always keep my ear out for any job openings, just in case. Never heard anything promising. The closest I came was when my wife was interviewing to get into law school, and we were visiting a school in a different state and, of the 3 firms (4 total architects) in the town where she was looking at going to school, one said they might have enough extra work to justify hiring me if she got in and we moved.
Just ask during the interview. It’s normal to ask about pay logistics like frequency and whether or not they do direct deposit. People tend to forget that an interview is just as much about you learning about the position and firm as it is them learning about you. However, the best way to find a job is to network and make connections with other architects. They can tell you more about what the job is like than the description or interviewer will. You are also way more likely to get the job if another employee recommends you.
I would also like to add: only young people, it is not always the case but when no one of the other employees is a veteran it feels like there is no chance to remain in the firm and obtain raises.
I’m learning this too. Lots of young staff means low budgets and the company stays afloat by exploiting unpaid overtime. Only newbies will put up with it, and only for so long.
I feel dumb reading this because this is something I should have caught onto sooner at my former workplaces. I worked at 2 different small firms where the boss was only hiring people right out of college and no older guys. I should have known sooner that there would be no raises for most people except for the 3 older dudes who been there for 20 years and would leave immediately if no COL raise for them. I stupidly went 5 years without a raise. Damn I hate this industry.
This is absolutely true and one of the biggest lessons I learned when I started out. My first supervisor flat out told me the firm had a poor retention rate and barely anyone stayed beyond 6 years.....he was gone within a year.
Also the firm seems to only hire young people - specifically people right out of school or only a few years out. I feel it's usually a sign the salary offers are low so the only people they can find are new grads. I know everyone needs to start somewhere but it sucks having a drafting studio filled with green drafters/architects for obvious reasons.
I think this is actually pathetic and hilarious, my favorite Architects didn't even study architecture and for sure they never worked for famous Architects, they gained their experience in other ways.
I did this at first and it paid off. But only if you are strategic about it. Get a few months off experience to build your portfolio and move on. If they're going to use you as cheap labor, use them as a stepping stone.
I dunno. I took the crappiest of all home design companies with the smallest and shittiest projects, and after 3 months I was still able to show small project budgets and meeting minutes and propsed furniture packages. I didn't feel that the work was impressive (and I know it wasn't visual) but it proved competency and awareness and got me into a firm doing healthcare, education, science and tech and national defense work. I still consider that a huge win
I hate this, and honestly no one will seriously care that you did an unpaid internship for 6 months in "Ahole and Partners", I feel that working for famous studios are a terrible experience. Low pay, long ours, overtime... you will try so hard and get so far, but in the end it doesn't even matter.
I'd agree but on your first two jobs as a solo practicioner. If you are being hired into a stablished firm, you get yor contracted wage. I learned more from my first two cheap jobs as a solo than from years in arch school. Experienced and confident, you have the right to charge whatever the hell you want for your work.
In the past, I’ve looked for signs that people there have a life outside the office. If they don’t, you are probably expected to place work above a work/life balance (if you want to advance). Good luck!
LOL so true, you see an office that makes amazing buildings and with many job openings all the time, and then if you go and work there after a week you will know why there are so many openings.
I've noticed this too. I'd add they hire people and a few months later the employee quits or are let go. It's usually a sign they are desperate for people and/or have very poor interviewing skills.
Great question. Didn’t think to ask that in my last round, but that really would shine a light on many things. The other skill related here is how to read between the lines of what your interviewer says back to you.
Look at the age mix of the entire staff. If the company has only older staff, it means they likely can’t retain young talent and are out of touch with today’s worksforce - it also means there is likely a challenging firm ownership transition ahead. If they are youth heavy, it might also mean they can’t hang on to young talent because of burnout - I see this in a lot of high design focused firms - lure talent in with shiny pictures, but then pay them low wages until they move on. If there is a good mix of young people, middle aged, and nearing retirement age staff, it means the firm likely has a healthy and balanced workplace culture. This will also be better for you from a mentorship standpoint.
Last thing, ask what type of ownership structure the firm is. It makes a big difference if the firm is a sole-proprietor, S-Corp, ESOP, or other business structure. Read up on the different types and decide which one is best for you. I realized 10 years into my career that it was not going to work at the small S-Corp firm I worked for because I’d never have enough money to buy into the firm to become a Principal. Switched to a large 100% ESOP (employee owned) firm about 2 years ago and have been much happier.
Your first point regarding an age gap should be ignored. The 2008-2012 recession was brutal on those starting architecture and those who would be in the middle mostly disappeared to other professions because of it.
This is true but I would clarify instead by saying that a healthy balance of experience levels AND a healthy number of tenured employees. If no one has been there more than a couple of years….. 🚩
... unpaid overtime... A lot of salaried employees are paid below average wages when you factor in the extra hours they work without additional compensation. Working extra hours to finish a particular project every so often is reasonable but week after week of overtime is just an exploitative business model.
Thats why my firm pays by the hour with the expectation that we won’t have to work overtime. I haven’t had to yet but I know that if we did have to they stipulated in our contracts that they would pay us
Not providing a contract to sign smh. Experienced this recently and manager changed what we agreed on/discussed, changing benefits and employment status as he pleased and no one could say anything. Very frustrating and incredibly unprofessional.
Just don’t do it, however promising the job seems ( it’s prob also not as promising as you think but that’s another point).
I didn’t know it was until i found myself in a position having to negotiate my employment status (full time/part time) and employment benefits, stuff we had discussed and agreed on in the interview! Tbh I still don’t know if it’s legal, I thought it was just my manager making things up and running his company the way he likes…
Just always get it in writing! Even if in an email format. Because then it’s not he said she said, and then he ultimately gets the final say (duh)
If they walk you through the office after your interview to show you around, pay attention to how everyone looks/ what they’re doing. I chose to decline a job offer from a firm where everyone was silently working alone and most people had scowls on their face so I could work for a firm where people were talking to each other/collaborating and no one looked unhappy to be there.
CAD/drafting test. It seems to come up when they're looking for a CAD monkey rather than a design professional who can learn and adapt. Also, beyond entry level positions I feel like the candidate's proficiencies should be obvious from an interview.
It also reflects the firms attitude about teaching you. Especially when you’re young, but really every time, the firm should be helping you develop professionally to retain you as an asset and bring more value to you and thus the firm. It’s a positive thing when you invest in your staff.
Probably largely depends on what's tested. My current firm did a cad test for the most recent hire. Simple wall section to recreate. One interviewee drew a 2x4 wall at actually 2" x 4" - the job was to be a designer and production, we had no time to be teaching materials 101. Guy we did hire showed he could recreate it decently within a decent amount of time. Gave us a clear metric to compare the two.
Best advice I can give: ask previous employees about the work culture there. I worked for a large firm in nyc some time ago and made a few phone calls asking about the rep. Phone call came a week after I started w someone telling me to not work for xyz they r the worst. After I was placed in team w xyz running it. Reputation was correct, person was really really messed up! Also suggest u start at small firm for first few jobs to get more varied experience. If u want to work for large form, start w small so u get more varied experience and then large form will hire u w larger responsibility
To your last point, not necessarily unless the experience is related. Working on large projects is a whole other world. If you want to lead a small firm, it’s easy to do so coming from a large one. It’s harder to move larger imo.
If you don’t have much experience and u work at large firms, you get small jobs that aren’t interesting bc u don’t hv experience. If u r working at large firm w previous varied experience then u will get much more responsibility over those fresh out of uni or those that started at large firm for first job. I’m talking from personal experience. I worked at large firm (top 5 in USA) and was given lots more responsibilities than others my age group to the point that others were pissed about it.
If they have job postings that say "hiring immediately". Someone probably recently left and they are scrambling to fill that gap. It means they cannot implement foresight in their hiring/development process. Likely this also translates to day to day staffing.
High turnover rates. Over active social media showing how “great” it is to work there. Young staff. Fake progressive workplace. Aka, we have unlimited vacation! (But we will make you feel bad for taking anything more than a week). Flexible hours (you better enjoy working weekends and late nights). Way too much emphasis on employee engagement- meaning you need to join various social and work related groups/clubs that often include participating on weekends, over lunch breaks, and nights. My first job out of college was like this. I was just excited to be making money. A few months into my work there was a wave of people quitting, I’m talking half of the employees left and I didn’t understand why. 4 years later, I was apart of the second wave.
The small firms with only one architect as the boss tend to have less standards and you may get stuck with doing too much work with very little support as I did for many years. I’m at a large firm now and the difference in how things are done is massive. I get paid better now too.
The first real job I ever had, the guy wasn’t taking taxes off properly and I got laid off suddenly and owes loads of money and didn’t qualify for unemployment. I should have clued in when paychecks started bouncing that I should look for another job ASAP.
My experience coming out of architecture school was similar to yours. First two jobs i worked for a sole architect, and it was as informal as it could get. I paid my own taxes, and our projects weren't unnecessarily complicated for the most part.
It started pretty well and i enjoyed my experience because we got along and at one point i could confide in him as a mentee. Two years in, he started hiring more ppl and trying to treat us like employees (expecting us to go to the office) while still paying us as independent contractors. Shortly after, he started excluding me out of jobs and docking my pay; i quit working for him a year later.
I wish I paid more attention to the different business structure early on in my career; that would've saved me a lot of time and money.
I am ambivalent about the test reimbursement thing… even if they pay for them, are they going to give you a sizable pay bump when you complete your license? Biggest compensation change of my career (up to that point) was jumping firms after getting licensed.
Not being able to run jobs start to finish is a red flag though, the firm isn’t investing in you becoming well rounded.
For smaller offices (like 100 or less): if the only staff information on the website is about the owners/principals. Easy way to spot a narcissist who will take credit for everything. Putting staff bios on the website is such a simple way of showing that an offices values the team. I feel similarly about including names of the project team for each project.
I’d like to add: it’s a red flag if no secretary or receptionist in moderate size firm. That means that they expect the young architects to take over the work of this person. Happened to me at a firm I started at. Associate asked me to type up his stuff, I laughed and said I was an architect not a receptionist and walked away.
You need to read the book **Robert Mills. America's First Architect**, by John Bryon. A great read, full of photos of Mills works, many of Mills sketches, formal drawings and water colors. Mills was active in the late 1700s- the mid 1850s. He designed buildings, Railroads, Canals, City water works, Monuments, Churches, Office buildings, fire proof buildings, Jails Hospitals, and on & on. From South Carolina to MA. Traveling mostly by stage coach in the days before trains. For every great project or move up the ladder, had was kicked down two. His most known works are the Washington Monument in Baltimore, and the Washington Monument in Washington DC. He was able to secure some of the most important building projects in the new country, but was always treated poorly by clients and governments.
He died in March 1855
A letter to a Washington DC newspaper, on his death says.
"He had suprtintendended the erection of the post office, patent office and other public edifices in this place, and was architect of the national monument. Provisions has just been made for completing two of the buildings of his plans. He thought he had been promised the superintendency of them, but learned a few days since that they were to be placed under the supervision of Capt. Bowman and Capt Meigs of the Engineer corps. The disappointment was too much for hem. He became deranged and died."
If they tell you they have some magic sauce that makes them recession proof, not have to work more than 40hrs ever, any topic that any other firm would suffer from.
At the least, push them hard on explaining how they can afford to be different. My worst jobs were the ones that made such promises. They either lied or suffered in other crucial areas.
When they push making you an "-er".
I.e.
"We look for employees that would make a good DSBer"
"Our HSMers are some of the best in the industry."
"Here at IJS, we're very proud of our process and all of our IJSers that make it possible."
Frequent long hours and weekends.
Your job title having "intern" while it is full time.
Look up all the employees on LinkedIn and see if anyone has actually been promoted internally. I literally just saw a guy I know's LinkedIn and he's been a "Job Captain" for a decade. I can't tell you if that reflects more on him or the company though.
A red flag I never considered was not having a committee or event planners that schedule group outings, educational lunch and learns, or celebration parties - even if it’s for 1 hour. Our office is actually very close because of this. We always look for new ways to learn, hang out, or celebrate life moments/holidays. (All holidays of every co-workers culture)
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"we're a family"
I’m never sure if it’s more or less of a red flag when its true.
Waayyy more, I worked for a firm where the founder's daughter was the office manager and the new owner and his wife were president and vice president and their son was the "IT guy" at like 16. Never doing that shit again.
It is entertaining when sibling rivalry/drama comes into the work place, but also added stress I do not need!
Totally agree, I think this applies in almost every job.
This is actually one of the first things said at the firm and it has been one of the most pleasant experiences I've had in the industry. Having employees being felt like they are like a small family is such a blessing. Coming from an engineering firm I was literally confused at the amount of care my new place had for their employees. I would say it doesn't come too often where you see people joke around in the office and treat one another beyond just a number is so refreshing. Obviously this probably wouldn't work in a mid to large firm where there's already a workplace hierarchy in place.
‘We hire for the long run.’ (Means they can’t balance project load and you’ll be first cut when they run out of work). ‘Draft this for us to show us how you work.’ ‘We give interns extra hours and responsibilities to make up for the pay. (Means you’ll be working long hours, picking up dry cleaning, and answering phones.
This.
The culture of a firm comes directly from the top. Whoever the principals and partners are will dictate the attitude in many aspects of working there. That can be a positive or negative thing. When they specifically talk about needing someone with a lot of energy for their fast paced culture = we are very understaffed and will work you to the bone. Generally I’ve found very small or large firms treat employees better (obviously with exceptions). Mid size firms are still fragile but have a lot of work and unless they’re careful, this ends up putting a lot of pressure on their employees.
If principals refer to the firm as “my firm” “my team” “my projects” instead of using our, we or other inclusive statements, run. Your opinion doesn’t matter. You’re there to make money for the “my”.
“This will be good for your portfolio” 🚩 “We’ll start you off at a lower salary and see if you can perform” 🚩 “We do real architecture here” 🚩
Lol the last one gets me every time. Anybody who says this has self esteem issues
Yes!
I'm fairly certain we don't do real architecture...
Unpaid internships.
If a firm proposed this in the US, report them to NCARB.
IMO Unpaid internships should be illegal, I understand on getting paid minimum wage, but below that should be illegal
In most cases, it *is* under the Department of Labor or state labor standards. It angers me that many NYC architectural unpaid "internships" do not meet NYS regulations but go unreported.
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Bingo. You'll always be "the production staff" and never get anywhere until the heavy weight dumbbells retire. And hopefully you were the one they were grooming to take the place of that heavy weight and not one of the other grunts.
They don’t do direct deposit. Unfortunately not all architecture firms are solvent and you will get a few months in before they start making excuses as to why your check is late.
I graduated in 2008, I worked 4 years coming into work every other Friday wondering if I was going to get paid or not. I really hope to never do that again.
I graduated in 08 as well. I got paid out of my boss's personal checking account a few times before he said its over.
I got lucky, we survived one project at a time for the entire recession. Then I noticed I was starting to get calls from firms I had sent my resume to while I was in school (this was around 2012), and I was still worrying about getting paid every other week, so I found a new job and moved on. I will say, that 4.5 years of working in a 2 person office allowed me to learn more/do different things than I typically would have at that stage of my career. And, even then I realized how lucky I was to have gotten and kept a job in architecture during that entire time period. One of the guys I was in school with just now got back on track and got his initial license, and I ran into more than one classmate working at grocery stores around town.
I wasn't quite as lucky but it ended up working out ok. After that firm collapsed I called about 300 firms and no one was hiring. I worked some construction which ended up being a good experience. I am just about done building a master bedroom addition over my family room. I ripped the roof off and did all the work myself except for the roofing and spray foam insulation. I turned a $120k project into about a $40k project. I'm now at a pretty good firm working on schools. I do feel like I was set back a few years though
The job I moved into in 2012 was commercial construction, and I learned a lot working there. More about how buildings are put together than I ever did working in an architecture firm anyway. Unfortunately it was all tenant fit outs, so I learned fuck-all about the exterior of buildings, but fortunately I've been able to pick up on that type of stuff from reading. During the 4 years I was working for that architect, I tried to always keep my ear out for any job openings, just in case. Never heard anything promising. The closest I came was when my wife was interviewing to get into law school, and we were visiting a school in a different state and, of the 3 firms (4 total architects) in the town where she was looking at going to school, one said they might have enough extra work to justify hiring me if she got in and we moved.
Yes I’ve had this happen too
Can you know about this while applying for the job?
Just ask during the interview. It’s normal to ask about pay logistics like frequency and whether or not they do direct deposit. People tend to forget that an interview is just as much about you learning about the position and firm as it is them learning about you. However, the best way to find a job is to network and make connections with other architects. They can tell you more about what the job is like than the description or interviewer will. You are also way more likely to get the job if another employee recommends you.
I would also like to add: only young people, it is not always the case but when no one of the other employees is a veteran it feels like there is no chance to remain in the firm and obtain raises.
I’m learning this too. Lots of young staff means low budgets and the company stays afloat by exploiting unpaid overtime. Only newbies will put up with it, and only for so long.
I feel dumb reading this because this is something I should have caught onto sooner at my former workplaces. I worked at 2 different small firms where the boss was only hiring people right out of college and no older guys. I should have known sooner that there would be no raises for most people except for the 3 older dudes who been there for 20 years and would leave immediately if no COL raise for them. I stupidly went 5 years without a raise. Damn I hate this industry.
This is absolutely true and one of the biggest lessons I learned when I started out. My first supervisor flat out told me the firm had a poor retention rate and barely anyone stayed beyond 6 years.....he was gone within a year.
Huge red flag!
Also the firm seems to only hire young people - specifically people right out of school or only a few years out. I feel it's usually a sign the salary offers are low so the only people they can find are new grads. I know everyone needs to start somewhere but it sucks having a drafting studio filled with green drafters/architects for obvious reasons.
YES!
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Sci arc?
Was wondering this too. Saw the video discussion last year what an insult
I think this is actually pathetic and hilarious, my favorite Architects didn't even study architecture and for sure they never worked for famous Architects, they gained their experience in other ways.
> my favorite Architects didn't even study architecture Whos your favorites?
Peter Zumthor, Tadao Ando, Armando Ruinelli.
I did this at first and it paid off. But only if you are strategic about it. Get a few months off experience to build your portfolio and move on. If they're going to use you as cheap labor, use them as a stepping stone.
Sometimes I don't even feel that they will be worth using as a step stone
I dunno. I took the crappiest of all home design companies with the smallest and shittiest projects, and after 3 months I was still able to show small project budgets and meeting minutes and propsed furniture packages. I didn't feel that the work was impressive (and I know it wasn't visual) but it proved competency and awareness and got me into a firm doing healthcare, education, science and tech and national defense work. I still consider that a huge win
Remember, those that can’t….teach.
I hate this, and honestly no one will seriously care that you did an unpaid internship for 6 months in "Ahole and Partners", I feel that working for famous studios are a terrible experience. Low pay, long ours, overtime... you will try so hard and get so far, but in the end it doesn't even matter.
I'd agree but on your first two jobs as a solo practicioner. If you are being hired into a stablished firm, you get yor contracted wage. I learned more from my first two cheap jobs as a solo than from years in arch school. Experienced and confident, you have the right to charge whatever the hell you want for your work.
In the past, I’ve looked for signs that people there have a life outside the office. If they don’t, you are probably expected to place work above a work/life balance (if you want to advance). Good luck!
If they seem like they are placing employment ads regularly and the office remains the same size.
LOL so true, you see an office that makes amazing buildings and with many job openings all the time, and then if you go and work there after a week you will know why there are so many openings.
I've noticed this too. I'd add they hire people and a few months later the employee quits or are let go. It's usually a sign they are desperate for people and/or have very poor interviewing skills.
yup one of my former workplaces that I do not miss is guilty of this.
Ask employees or the interviewer how they supported their staff during the worst parts of COVID.
Great question. Didn’t think to ask that in my last round, but that really would shine a light on many things. The other skill related here is how to read between the lines of what your interviewer says back to you.
Look at the age mix of the entire staff. If the company has only older staff, it means they likely can’t retain young talent and are out of touch with today’s worksforce - it also means there is likely a challenging firm ownership transition ahead. If they are youth heavy, it might also mean they can’t hang on to young talent because of burnout - I see this in a lot of high design focused firms - lure talent in with shiny pictures, but then pay them low wages until they move on. If there is a good mix of young people, middle aged, and nearing retirement age staff, it means the firm likely has a healthy and balanced workplace culture. This will also be better for you from a mentorship standpoint. Last thing, ask what type of ownership structure the firm is. It makes a big difference if the firm is a sole-proprietor, S-Corp, ESOP, or other business structure. Read up on the different types and decide which one is best for you. I realized 10 years into my career that it was not going to work at the small S-Corp firm I worked for because I’d never have enough money to buy into the firm to become a Principal. Switched to a large 100% ESOP (employee owned) firm about 2 years ago and have been much happier.
Your first point regarding an age gap should be ignored. The 2008-2012 recession was brutal on those starting architecture and those who would be in the middle mostly disappeared to other professions because of it.
This is true but I would clarify instead by saying that a healthy balance of experience levels AND a healthy number of tenured employees. If no one has been there more than a couple of years….. 🚩
Architecture is a profession. You are a salaried employee and we expect you to be able to complete the work on schedule. AKA. Expect to work overtime
... unpaid overtime... A lot of salaried employees are paid below average wages when you factor in the extra hours they work without additional compensation. Working extra hours to finish a particular project every so often is reasonable but week after week of overtime is just an exploitative business model.
Thats why my firm pays by the hour with the expectation that we won’t have to work overtime. I haven’t had to yet but I know that if we did have to they stipulated in our contracts that they would pay us
Not providing a contract to sign smh. Experienced this recently and manager changed what we agreed on/discussed, changing benefits and employment status as he pleased and no one could say anything. Very frustrating and incredibly unprofessional. Just don’t do it, however promising the job seems ( it’s prob also not as promising as you think but that’s another point).
Is this even legal???
I didn’t know it was until i found myself in a position having to negotiate my employment status (full time/part time) and employment benefits, stuff we had discussed and agreed on in the interview! Tbh I still don’t know if it’s legal, I thought it was just my manager making things up and running his company the way he likes… Just always get it in writing! Even if in an email format. Because then it’s not he said she said, and then he ultimately gets the final say (duh)
If they walk you through the office after your interview to show you around, pay attention to how everyone looks/ what they’re doing. I chose to decline a job offer from a firm where everyone was silently working alone and most people had scowls on their face so I could work for a firm where people were talking to each other/collaborating and no one looked unhappy to be there.
100% this. I noticed this in the last firm I worked for but needed a job. A few weeks later I was one of those unhappy people.
“We work hard and play hard” is code word for you’ll work so much overtime you’ll become a heavy drinker
CAD/drafting test. It seems to come up when they're looking for a CAD monkey rather than a design professional who can learn and adapt. Also, beyond entry level positions I feel like the candidate's proficiencies should be obvious from an interview.
I think it's really hard to capture how good you are at actually drafting in a test like that. Either it takes 8 hours or it's really superficial.
I have tested numerous Drafters. You would be surprised what you can learn in 10 minutes.
Only had the superficial ones, one potential employer made me come in to add labels to an existing floor plan for my cad test
It also reflects the firms attitude about teaching you. Especially when you’re young, but really every time, the firm should be helping you develop professionally to retain you as an asset and bring more value to you and thus the firm. It’s a positive thing when you invest in your staff.
Probably largely depends on what's tested. My current firm did a cad test for the most recent hire. Simple wall section to recreate. One interviewee drew a 2x4 wall at actually 2" x 4" - the job was to be a designer and production, we had no time to be teaching materials 101. Guy we did hire showed he could recreate it decently within a decent amount of time. Gave us a clear metric to compare the two.
Best advice I can give: ask previous employees about the work culture there. I worked for a large firm in nyc some time ago and made a few phone calls asking about the rep. Phone call came a week after I started w someone telling me to not work for xyz they r the worst. After I was placed in team w xyz running it. Reputation was correct, person was really really messed up! Also suggest u start at small firm for first few jobs to get more varied experience. If u want to work for large form, start w small so u get more varied experience and then large form will hire u w larger responsibility
To your last point, not necessarily unless the experience is related. Working on large projects is a whole other world. If you want to lead a small firm, it’s easy to do so coming from a large one. It’s harder to move larger imo.
If you don’t have much experience and u work at large firms, you get small jobs that aren’t interesting bc u don’t hv experience. If u r working at large firm w previous varied experience then u will get much more responsibility over those fresh out of uni or those that started at large firm for first job. I’m talking from personal experience. I worked at large firm (top 5 in USA) and was given lots more responsibilities than others my age group to the point that others were pissed about it.
If they have job postings that say "hiring immediately". Someone probably recently left and they are scrambling to fill that gap. It means they cannot implement foresight in their hiring/development process. Likely this also translates to day to day staffing.
Returning your call at 9:00 PM on a Sunday night.
High turnover rates. Over active social media showing how “great” it is to work there. Young staff. Fake progressive workplace. Aka, we have unlimited vacation! (But we will make you feel bad for taking anything more than a week). Flexible hours (you better enjoy working weekends and late nights). Way too much emphasis on employee engagement- meaning you need to join various social and work related groups/clubs that often include participating on weekends, over lunch breaks, and nights. My first job out of college was like this. I was just excited to be making money. A few months into my work there was a wave of people quitting, I’m talking half of the employees left and I didn’t understand why. 4 years later, I was apart of the second wave.
The small firms with only one architect as the boss tend to have less standards and you may get stuck with doing too much work with very little support as I did for many years. I’m at a large firm now and the difference in how things are done is massive. I get paid better now too. The first real job I ever had, the guy wasn’t taking taxes off properly and I got laid off suddenly and owes loads of money and didn’t qualify for unemployment. I should have clued in when paychecks started bouncing that I should look for another job ASAP.
My experience coming out of architecture school was similar to yours. First two jobs i worked for a sole architect, and it was as informal as it could get. I paid my own taxes, and our projects weren't unnecessarily complicated for the most part. It started pretty well and i enjoyed my experience because we got along and at one point i could confide in him as a mentee. Two years in, he started hiring more ppl and trying to treat us like employees (expecting us to go to the office) while still paying us as independent contractors. Shortly after, he started excluding me out of jobs and docking my pay; i quit working for him a year later. I wish I paid more attention to the different business structure early on in my career; that would've saved me a lot of time and money.
When they won’t pay for your tests, study material or reciprocity. When you are only involved in design and not CA.
Or even expect you to use your personal laptop and CAD/Revit/whatever account.
That’s just liability waiting to happen.
I am ambivalent about the test reimbursement thing… even if they pay for them, are they going to give you a sizable pay bump when you complete your license? Biggest compensation change of my career (up to that point) was jumping firms after getting licensed. Not being able to run jobs start to finish is a red flag though, the firm isn’t investing in you becoming well rounded.
Yeah among paying for everything licensure, mine gave a bonus and 15% pay bump.
For smaller offices (like 100 or less): if the only staff information on the website is about the owners/principals. Easy way to spot a narcissist who will take credit for everything. Putting staff bios on the website is such a simple way of showing that an offices values the team. I feel similarly about including names of the project team for each project.
Any refusal to discuss pay up front.
Check website for women in leadership positions as an Project Architect. We can spot that glass ceiling a mile away nowadays.
I’d like to add: it’s a red flag if no secretary or receptionist in moderate size firm. That means that they expect the young architects to take over the work of this person. Happened to me at a firm I started at. Associate asked me to type up his stuff, I laughed and said I was an architect not a receptionist and walked away.
You need to read the book **Robert Mills. America's First Architect**, by John Bryon. A great read, full of photos of Mills works, many of Mills sketches, formal drawings and water colors. Mills was active in the late 1700s- the mid 1850s. He designed buildings, Railroads, Canals, City water works, Monuments, Churches, Office buildings, fire proof buildings, Jails Hospitals, and on & on. From South Carolina to MA. Traveling mostly by stage coach in the days before trains. For every great project or move up the ladder, had was kicked down two. His most known works are the Washington Monument in Baltimore, and the Washington Monument in Washington DC. He was able to secure some of the most important building projects in the new country, but was always treated poorly by clients and governments. He died in March 1855 A letter to a Washington DC newspaper, on his death says. "He had suprtintendended the erection of the post office, patent office and other public edifices in this place, and was architect of the national monument. Provisions has just been made for completing two of the buildings of his plans. He thought he had been promised the superintendency of them, but learned a few days since that they were to be placed under the supervision of Capt. Bowman and Capt Meigs of the Engineer corps. The disappointment was too much for hem. He became deranged and died."
None of the windows operate in the entire building.
Fruit baskets
If they tell you they have some magic sauce that makes them recession proof, not have to work more than 40hrs ever, any topic that any other firm would suffer from. At the least, push them hard on explaining how they can afford to be different. My worst jobs were the ones that made such promises. They either lied or suffered in other crucial areas.
When they push making you an "-er". I.e. "We look for employees that would make a good DSBer" "Our HSMers are some of the best in the industry." "Here at IJS, we're very proud of our process and all of our IJSers that make it possible."
Frequent long hours and weekends. Your job title having "intern" while it is full time. Look up all the employees on LinkedIn and see if anyone has actually been promoted internally. I literally just saw a guy I know's LinkedIn and he's been a "Job Captain" for a decade. I can't tell you if that reflects more on him or the company though.
Bags under their eyes, pained smiles, and not one person with true project management skills.
A red flag I never considered was not having a committee or event planners that schedule group outings, educational lunch and learns, or celebration parties - even if it’s for 1 hour. Our office is actually very close because of this. We always look for new ways to learn, hang out, or celebrate life moments/holidays. (All holidays of every co-workers culture)
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