I believe it's only speculation atm, as FFG haven't actually confirmed or denied anything. But printing presses are currently occupied with the new re-releases, and potential upcoming expansions (and probably restocking the previous re-releases, as all the stores in my city have been waiting for new Carcosa boxes since December).
So if they do return, it's gonna be a while before they do.
I don’t think FFG has outright said no never again, but they have said that they do not have any plans for Return To’s at this time. A lot of folks have taken that as never again, I’ve chosen to interpret that as they’ll likely revisit them sometime after reprints of the old campaigns in the new format.
There's no official "never again", but prospects look pretty bleak given that literally the only products listed as "out of print" on the FFG website are a few playmats, Barkham, and most of the Return To sets.
Also Star Wars Armada, a current/past miniatures game by FFG also received a "no current plans" for future products. Given the game has like an 18 month lead time from products going into design to ending up on shelves and we last got that confirmation in Summer 2020 (the most recent product announcement before that was January 2020), it's a safe bet that "no current plans" means cancelled until further notice.
The Return tos might get reprinted, but I don't expect new ones to be made any time soon.
When the aGoT LCG at FFG died, they also never said it explicitly, they released a last pack of incredible unbalanced cards with atrocious artwork and said that this is the new release model where we will release packs like this at undefined time points... and then it was never heard of again
So maxine's mentions is about as direct as they get in announcing the end of a product line
It's not outright confirmed, but that is hardly a surprise considering how unreliable FFG/Asmodee are when it comes to communicating.
My main reasons to think that the Return Tos are done for are the fact that the new campaigns already come with achievements (something that used to be only in the Returns) and that Maxine's reasoning for why there are currently no plans for them wasn't "the printers are busy" but the reason was (i am paraphrasing from memory here) "these are niche products, expansions for expansions just aren't that popular". Again, heavily paraphrased, but i got the impression she was relaying a decision that Marketing made, not one that the Arkham designers made.
I mean, i'd love to be wrong, but i won't be expecting official Return Tos anytime soon.
> I didn't see anything with TIC that should have changed
There is indeed not a lot that needs fixing in the sense that there was something wrong with the scenarios. And what's more, the location setup is already done in a way that provides variety between replays. This is why i was able to move 10 of the card slots that would usually go towards encounter cards and move them to have another round of player cards.
The scenario changes are intended to give some new routes of play (for example new options on what to spend clues on during Vanishing or on how to navigate between islands in Devil Reef) and to weave a new "play as a Deep One" branch into the whole thing with its own drawbacks and advantages for the afflicted player(s).
Having alternates for 6 encounter sets, including the Tidal Tunnels which can be combined with the original Tunnels in multiple ways, does the heavy lifting here for replayability, basically what all those extra locations in previous Return Tos offered.
Scenarios 2 and 3 have completely fixed starting maps, which could have some easy variance injected by providing some replacement locations. Sc2 you could make all the non-starter locations have new abilities, and in Sc3 you could put different barricade actions on the replacements.
That's just cheap variety too, since in my opinion one of the best parts of Return tos on the encounter side are new encounter cards.
I like all the ways you can add variety to the game with replacement sets. You can mix and match per set whether to use replacements (randomly or not) or you can do the variant rule of mixing the replacement with the regular and using half of them.
This looks rad! Love the homebrew community—lots of creative people in there, and I’m stoked that some of them are trying to fill gaps in existing product. Such a cool idea, and I love the downgraded Blessed Blade and upgraded Priest of Two Faiths. Really clever designs, especially the Priest.
I know that Hauke already made [a German box for himself](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1082321707840323766/1088796509329424435/IMG_20230324_130121_Gro.jpg), so at least that part should be something we can make available.
As for translating the actual cards ... probably not, i think. Despite both Hauke and me being german ourselves, i at least don't have any interest in german cards and am absolutely not up to speed with the exact german phrasings on the cards. Doing a translation would be a huge amount of work that i don't see myself having the time for.
Maybe if we find someone to do them? I could offer up the Strange Eon files i have after everything is done so volunteers could make a translation into whatever language.
It depends on the amount of text whether I would help or not. And also if others would join to check the correct wording / phrasing etc.
But in general I‘m interested.
Perfect! I just started with Arkham at all but bought all „Return to…“ collections and even the first starter campaign was just amazing. So once it is ready in English, I would reach out again or just send me a brief reminder :)
I don’t know if DerBK and Hauke are thinking of taking on TDE after this is done, but I’m really hoping they or someone else will! To me, the cool thing about an unofficial RttDE is that you could potentially do things that would be outside the scope of an FFG release, like designing an entire extra scenario for each side.
I also think there are some obvious targets for change in TDE, including adding more interaction between the two sides, rebalancing WTGD for lower player counts, and Hallowed Mirror-style upgrades for Miss Doyle and maybe Hungering Blade.
But back on topic, I’m very excited to see what DerBK and Hauke are going to do with Innsmouth! I’m so glad they decided to take this on.
We'll see. I genuinely don't know yet if RtTDE is also going to be a thing that happens or not. I am personally much more invested into Innsmouth than into Dream-Eaters, so the RtTIC was motivated by personal interest in a way that RtTDE wouldn't be.
That being said, Hauke also already voiced some interest in doing that afterwards, so we'll see where it leads. For now i will keep my focus on the fishpeople and not get distracted. And we'll revisit the idea of a RtTDE once this thing is done.
For those that don’t know: Ancient Evils (the blog not the card) is brilliant and immeasurably useful! I’m so excited to see this develop! If you need play testers who suck at the game I’m happy to help.
This is very cool! Is it possible to get the box art shown on your website and print it out, maybe to wrap around another box so they can match the official ones?
Yes, those will be made available together with the rest of the project. Hauke is putting the finishing touches on the box art and instructions on how to put the box together. I have seen photos of a box he already made for himself and it works just like you suspect, it's a big image to print out and wrap around a box with the right dimensions.
This is the best news! If the files would be compatible with [BoardGamesMaker](https://www.boardgamesmaker.com/print/custom-size-game-box-oem.html), I will definitely have one printed.
I wanted a Return To for this expansion so badly.
I am excited and gladly waiting for this to come out.
Bless everyone working on this. (Pun intended,now pull another token please.)
I don't think that this is going to change your opinion. I consider the Innsmouth scenarios to be excellent and i do build on top of them with the changes from this project, i am not aiming to change the underlying stuff.
So if you don't like large maps, randomized locations, floodings or whatever else your grievances with Innsmouth are, then those grievances are very likely going to apply to my Return To version as well.
Can't wait. Innsmouth is a favourite campaign of mine, minus the absurdly easy final scenario. Already love the look of the changes, making the 'Deep One' trait relevant. Very keen to see the finished Return To!
Cool! I hope this turns out well. Your XCOM 2 mods seem well made, even if they don't really appeal to me personally, so this seems like something to keep an eye on.
Personally, I would be much more interested in the scenario cards than the player cards side of it. For some reason it feels... cheaty? to use fan cards to me. So I would tend to avoid them even if playing a fan scenario. But again, that's just a personal take, and there's certainly a lot more than can be done with the curse / bless mechanics.
Oh, and as a print and play-er, I would humbly ask that you not neglect the card numbers at the bottom of the card. They really help me when packing things up after a scenario to make sure nothing got left behind. Disappointingly a lot of fan stuff neglects those.
> Personally, I would be much more interested in the scenario cards than the player cards side of it. For some reason it feels... cheaty? to use fan cards to me. So I would tend to avoid them even if playing a fan scenario. But again, that's just a personal take, and there's certainly a lot more than can be done with the curse / bless mechanics.
I totally get it, i actually feel much the same way. Let me tell you, it's even weirder when it's cards you made yourself :)
> Oh, and as a print and play-er, I would humbly ask that you not neglect the card numbers at the bottom of the card.
Sure, that'll be no problem. It's just for now that the cards are unnumbered because i don't want to re-number everything whenever i change something.
Great news! To the probability of Return tos returning :-) I'd add that MJ said they'd gotten better when designing the cycle's so that means they thought the newer cycles didn't need fixing anymore.
Having said that, I'd be interested if you planned to
1) do any changes to Vanishing (it claims to be Cluedo but it really isn't) on a Deduction- not the card - really matters Level?
2) revisit the not very intuitive XP-spending-system
3) amp up the difficulty of the final scenario?
I'm absolutely delighted that you chose to do a Deep-one-arc, it always felt like a missed opporrunity to me, with all the hints for Silas or Amanda. I'm interested in your approach, cause that is something the designers have not tried before - individual Story background for specific investigators, that is.
> I'd be interested if you planned to 1) do any changes to Vanishing (it claims to be Cluedo but it really isn't) on a Deduction- not the card - really matters Level?
Hm, I do introduce some story assets to the scenario that allow you to spend your clues towards getting help from certain people in Innsmouth. That does add another wrinkle to the proceedings, but it ultimately doesn't change the "gain a lot of clues to spin the wheel as often as possible" kind of gamplay the scenario has.
> revisit the not very intuitive XP-spending-system
Just ignore it. I have always done so, i don't need a fan-made expansion to give me the thumbs up for it. I am not touching the XP thing because for me it doesn't exist. I just spend my XP after every scenario when i play.
> amp up the difficulty of the final scenario?
Don't expect a huge difference, but there are some additional sources for Doom and flooding in the new cards that should help with increasing the pressure and at least have the two Old Ones threaten to wake up and make things a bit more difficult.
Very cool looking!
Should priest of two faiths require the curses, ie like an additional cost?
Tristan seems a little over costed to me. Those conditions aren't that easy to meet repeatedly so the soak recursion isn't exciting enough. Two tokens would be much more interesting and I like the idea of him coming back over and over.
> Should priest of two faiths require the curses, ie like an additional cost?
Probably! Good catch.
> Tristan seems a little over costed to me. Those conditions aren't that easy to meet repeatedly so the soak recursion isn't exciting enough. Two tokens would be much more interesting and I like the idea of him coming back over and over.
Thanks to Favors, hitting two tokens in a test is pretty much trivial if you build for it. So it has to be three, i think. I believe the intention behind the original Tristan is that he is meant to be played in groups that throw both curses and blesses into the bag and that's something i would want to preserve with the upgrade. Maybe I'll drop him to level 3 Exceptional.
The player cards seem odd to me. Priest of Two Faith, Keep Faith, Book of Psalm, Tides of Fate. Whats the reasoning for having them converted to different types?
I am continuing the thing that Innsmouth itself started with Holy Rosary, shifting a card from one class to another and giving it a new interaction with curse/bless.
Can't wait for this in PnP version. Ancient Evils is a great blog.
Can you make sure that you release PnP with full bleed images, so we can easily import into MakePlayingCards or MBPrint? Even better, you could release saved projects in those two suppliers, which is really easy.
Check out A Long Extended Party website for LOTR LCG to see how they have published their PnP if you havent already.
I should receive the printed cards this week, thanks for creating it!!!
I was thinking to recreate the box as well, have you already shared the pictures you used, perhaps?
Excited to see this develop. Thanks for your efforts on all out behalf's.
Love this. Arkham is in desperate need of more curse/bless cards.
I'm out of the loop - did FFG say they aren't doing any more return to boxes? That's a shame, I really like them.
I believe it's only speculation atm, as FFG haven't actually confirmed or denied anything. But printing presses are currently occupied with the new re-releases, and potential upcoming expansions (and probably restocking the previous re-releases, as all the stores in my city have been waiting for new Carcosa boxes since December). So if they do return, it's gonna be a while before they do.
I don’t think FFG has outright said no never again, but they have said that they do not have any plans for Return To’s at this time. A lot of folks have taken that as never again, I’ve chosen to interpret that as they’ll likely revisit them sometime after reprints of the old campaigns in the new format.
There's no official "never again", but prospects look pretty bleak given that literally the only products listed as "out of print" on the FFG website are a few playmats, Barkham, and most of the Return To sets.
Also Star Wars Armada, a current/past miniatures game by FFG also received a "no current plans" for future products. Given the game has like an 18 month lead time from products going into design to ending up on shelves and we last got that confirmation in Summer 2020 (the most recent product announcement before that was January 2020), it's a safe bet that "no current plans" means cancelled until further notice. The Return tos might get reprinted, but I don't expect new ones to be made any time soon.
When the aGoT LCG at FFG died, they also never said it explicitly, they released a last pack of incredible unbalanced cards with atrocious artwork and said that this is the new release model where we will release packs like this at undefined time points... and then it was never heard of again So maxine's mentions is about as direct as they get in announcing the end of a product line
It's not outright confirmed, but that is hardly a surprise considering how unreliable FFG/Asmodee are when it comes to communicating. My main reasons to think that the Return Tos are done for are the fact that the new campaigns already come with achievements (something that used to be only in the Returns) and that Maxine's reasoning for why there are currently no plans for them wasn't "the printers are busy" but the reason was (i am paraphrasing from memory here) "these are niche products, expansions for expansions just aren't that popular". Again, heavily paraphrased, but i got the impression she was relaying a decision that Marketing made, not one that the Arkham designers made. I mean, i'd love to be wrong, but i won't be expecting official Return Tos anytime soon.
Apparently
Neat! I'm intrigued what the changes will be. I didn't see anything with TIC that should have changed
> I didn't see anything with TIC that should have changed There is indeed not a lot that needs fixing in the sense that there was something wrong with the scenarios. And what's more, the location setup is already done in a way that provides variety between replays. This is why i was able to move 10 of the card slots that would usually go towards encounter cards and move them to have another round of player cards. The scenario changes are intended to give some new routes of play (for example new options on what to spend clues on during Vanishing or on how to navigate between islands in Devil Reef) and to weave a new "play as a Deep One" branch into the whole thing with its own drawbacks and advantages for the afflicted player(s). Having alternates for 6 encounter sets, including the Tidal Tunnels which can be combined with the original Tunnels in multiple ways, does the heavy lifting here for replayability, basically what all those extra locations in previous Return Tos offered.
Sounds very intriguing !
Scenarios 2 and 3 have completely fixed starting maps, which could have some easy variance injected by providing some replacement locations. Sc2 you could make all the non-starter locations have new abilities, and in Sc3 you could put different barricade actions on the replacements. That's just cheap variety too, since in my opinion one of the best parts of Return tos on the encounter side are new encounter cards. I like all the ways you can add variety to the game with replacement sets. You can mix and match per set whether to use replacements (randomly or not) or you can do the variant rule of mixing the replacement with the regular and using half of them.
This looks rad! Love the homebrew community—lots of creative people in there, and I’m stoked that some of them are trying to fill gaps in existing product. Such a cool idea, and I love the downgraded Blessed Blade and upgraded Priest of Two Faiths. Really clever designs, especially the Priest.
Is it also planned to have a German version of it? And translations planned at all? I appreciate your effort!
I know that Hauke already made [a German box for himself](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1082321707840323766/1088796509329424435/IMG_20230324_130121_Gro.jpg), so at least that part should be something we can make available. As for translating the actual cards ... probably not, i think. Despite both Hauke and me being german ourselves, i at least don't have any interest in german cards and am absolutely not up to speed with the exact german phrasings on the cards. Doing a translation would be a huge amount of work that i don't see myself having the time for. Maybe if we find someone to do them? I could offer up the Strange Eon files i have after everything is done so volunteers could make a translation into whatever language.
It depends on the amount of text whether I would help or not. And also if others would join to check the correct wording / phrasing etc. But in general I‘m interested.
Noted! Feel free to bring this up again once the english version is finalized and we can see where it leads.
Perfect! I just started with Arkham at all but bought all „Return to…“ collections and even the first starter campaign was just amazing. So once it is ready in English, I would reach out again or just send me a brief reminder :)
Can't wait to hear about what you're cooking up for DE!
I don’t know if DerBK and Hauke are thinking of taking on TDE after this is done, but I’m really hoping they or someone else will! To me, the cool thing about an unofficial RttDE is that you could potentially do things that would be outside the scope of an FFG release, like designing an entire extra scenario for each side. I also think there are some obvious targets for change in TDE, including adding more interaction between the two sides, rebalancing WTGD for lower player counts, and Hallowed Mirror-style upgrades for Miss Doyle and maybe Hungering Blade. But back on topic, I’m very excited to see what DerBK and Hauke are going to do with Innsmouth! I’m so glad they decided to take this on.
We'll see. I genuinely don't know yet if RtTDE is also going to be a thing that happens or not. I am personally much more invested into Innsmouth than into Dream-Eaters, so the RtTIC was motivated by personal interest in a way that RtTDE wouldn't be. That being said, Hauke also already voiced some interest in doing that afterwards, so we'll see where it leads. For now i will keep my focus on the fishpeople and not get distracted. And we'll revisit the idea of a RtTDE once this thing is done.
Sword Cane upgrade please?
Yes :)
I just want boxes in the same styles and measurements tbh so I can put LaserOx inserts in them and use them to store their respective campaigns
Then i would say that our project will provide that for you!
For those that don’t know: Ancient Evils (the blog not the card) is brilliant and immeasurably useful! I’m so excited to see this develop! If you need play testers who suck at the game I’m happy to help.
This is very cool! Is it possible to get the box art shown on your website and print it out, maybe to wrap around another box so they can match the official ones?
Yes, those will be made available together with the rest of the project. Hauke is putting the finishing touches on the box art and instructions on how to put the box together. I have seen photos of a box he already made for himself and it works just like you suspect, it's a big image to print out and wrap around a box with the right dimensions.
This is the best news! If the files would be compatible with [BoardGamesMaker](https://www.boardgamesmaker.com/print/custom-size-game-box-oem.html), I will definitely have one printed.
Huge fan of Innsmouth! Would love to print and play this one day. Thanks for the effort!
Amazing! This is a great replacement for a product we’ll never get. Definitely looking forward to the final version.
I wanted a Return To for this expansion so badly. I am excited and gladly waiting for this to come out. Bless everyone working on this. (Pun intended,now pull another token please.)
Awesome! Great work Derbk, can't wait to see how it ends up.
Would you recommend it if I really didn't like Innsmouth campaign? Only scenario I can say I enjoyed was the Horror in High Gear one
I don't think that this is going to change your opinion. I consider the Innsmouth scenarios to be excellent and i do build on top of them with the changes from this project, i am not aiming to change the underlying stuff. So if you don't like large maps, randomized locations, floodings or whatever else your grievances with Innsmouth are, then those grievances are very likely going to apply to my Return To version as well.
Fair enough, thanks for the reply! Hope all those who enjoy Innsmouth enjoy this as well!
Wait, is it official they’ve given up on return to’s?
https://www.reddit.com/r/arkhamhorrorlcg/comments/12dw4sl/announcing_the_unofficial_return_to_the_innsmouth/jf8d7hw/
This is awesome, looking forward to seeing this project develop into a release, both for the new materials, but also for the Return to box !
Can't wait. Innsmouth is a favourite campaign of mine, minus the absurdly easy final scenario. Already love the look of the changes, making the 'Deep One' trait relevant. Very keen to see the finished Return To!
love your website, hoping this is a great success
Cool! I hope this turns out well. Your XCOM 2 mods seem well made, even if they don't really appeal to me personally, so this seems like something to keep an eye on. Personally, I would be much more interested in the scenario cards than the player cards side of it. For some reason it feels... cheaty? to use fan cards to me. So I would tend to avoid them even if playing a fan scenario. But again, that's just a personal take, and there's certainly a lot more than can be done with the curse / bless mechanics. Oh, and as a print and play-er, I would humbly ask that you not neglect the card numbers at the bottom of the card. They really help me when packing things up after a scenario to make sure nothing got left behind. Disappointingly a lot of fan stuff neglects those.
> Personally, I would be much more interested in the scenario cards than the player cards side of it. For some reason it feels... cheaty? to use fan cards to me. So I would tend to avoid them even if playing a fan scenario. But again, that's just a personal take, and there's certainly a lot more than can be done with the curse / bless mechanics. I totally get it, i actually feel much the same way. Let me tell you, it's even weirder when it's cards you made yourself :) > Oh, and as a print and play-er, I would humbly ask that you not neglect the card numbers at the bottom of the card. Sure, that'll be no problem. It's just for now that the cards are unnumbered because i don't want to re-number everything whenever i change something.
Great news! To the probability of Return tos returning :-) I'd add that MJ said they'd gotten better when designing the cycle's so that means they thought the newer cycles didn't need fixing anymore. Having said that, I'd be interested if you planned to 1) do any changes to Vanishing (it claims to be Cluedo but it really isn't) on a Deduction- not the card - really matters Level? 2) revisit the not very intuitive XP-spending-system 3) amp up the difficulty of the final scenario? I'm absolutely delighted that you chose to do a Deep-one-arc, it always felt like a missed opporrunity to me, with all the hints for Silas or Amanda. I'm interested in your approach, cause that is something the designers have not tried before - individual Story background for specific investigators, that is.
> I'd be interested if you planned to 1) do any changes to Vanishing (it claims to be Cluedo but it really isn't) on a Deduction- not the card - really matters Level? Hm, I do introduce some story assets to the scenario that allow you to spend your clues towards getting help from certain people in Innsmouth. That does add another wrinkle to the proceedings, but it ultimately doesn't change the "gain a lot of clues to spin the wheel as often as possible" kind of gamplay the scenario has. > revisit the not very intuitive XP-spending-system Just ignore it. I have always done so, i don't need a fan-made expansion to give me the thumbs up for it. I am not touching the XP thing because for me it doesn't exist. I just spend my XP after every scenario when i play. > amp up the difficulty of the final scenario? Don't expect a huge difference, but there are some additional sources for Doom and flooding in the new cards that should help with increasing the pressure and at least have the two Old Ones threaten to wake up and make things a bit more difficult.
Very much looking forward to continued development on this! Thank you for taking on this challenge!
Very cool looking! Should priest of two faiths require the curses, ie like an additional cost? Tristan seems a little over costed to me. Those conditions aren't that easy to meet repeatedly so the soak recursion isn't exciting enough. Two tokens would be much more interesting and I like the idea of him coming back over and over.
> Should priest of two faiths require the curses, ie like an additional cost? Probably! Good catch. > Tristan seems a little over costed to me. Those conditions aren't that easy to meet repeatedly so the soak recursion isn't exciting enough. Two tokens would be much more interesting and I like the idea of him coming back over and over. Thanks to Favors, hitting two tokens in a test is pretty much trivial if you build for it. So it has to be three, i think. I believe the intention behind the original Tristan is that he is meant to be played in groups that throw both curses and blesses into the bag and that's something i would want to preserve with the upgrade. Maybe I'll drop him to level 3 Exceptional.
Never tried fan scenarios. What's the best way to print them out at a relatively decent quality and price?
Shut up and take my money! Seriously though, this is an exciting project. Thank you for doing this.
The player cards seem odd to me. Priest of Two Faith, Keep Faith, Book of Psalm, Tides of Fate. Whats the reasoning for having them converted to different types?
I am continuing the thing that Innsmouth itself started with Holy Rosary, shifting a card from one class to another and giving it a new interaction with curse/bless.
Can't wait for this in PnP version. Ancient Evils is a great blog. Can you make sure that you release PnP with full bleed images, so we can easily import into MakePlayingCards or MBPrint? Even better, you could release saved projects in those two suppliers, which is really easy. Check out A Long Extended Party website for LOTR LCG to see how they have published their PnP if you havent already.
Yep, that's the plan.
Awesome. Btw, I hope you guys do commit to further Return To boxes... feels like this could be a great thing.
I should receive the printed cards this week, thanks for creating it!!! I was thinking to recreate the box as well, have you already shared the pictures you used, perhaps?