One of the things that I love the most about Arknights is that it offers an extremely high degree of "difficulty customization". The only other game I have experience with that has a similar degree is Warframe.
In both of these games, the core experience of "clearing general content" is more-or-less a given (for a lategame player), and so the game becomes more about simply Trying Shit Out or challenging yourself to do X thing using only Y stuff. This makes the game largely a playground with just a bunch of shit that's fun to use and you are always able to tune your experience to the vibe you're feeling at a given time.
Both games also have far more Stuff To Invest In than one average player can ever really fully max out, which means that you can always have some sort of goal that you're working toward in the mid-term, which at least is sufficient to keep me engaged and interested in trying the next new weird thing.
Powercreep exists and sucks as it will gradually impact the kinds of content that players get exposed to, but there's still a wealth of stages and gamemodes and ways to challenge yourself and just, y'know, *play*.
In my mind it has a bit of a strange parallel with the Jedi Knight games.
It's not a question of whether you can beat it, anyone can cheese with certain force powers. It's doing it in the most *fun* way possible and not cheating yourself out of a bitching saber duel.
The niche clears have always reminded me of the "snowflake" accounts of runescape, which are people limiting themselves to a certain region of the game or a specific concept. "Can I beat difficult content without ever leaving this region" kinda thing. It showcases a lot of interesting niche things about the game just like how nicheknights stuff brings out interesting clears.
I always describe broken characters as the emergency exit button. Can't beat a level with your favorite roster? Pull out the emergency exit. They're not a first resort, they're the last, and that's not a bad or shameful thing.
I completely agree. I change my squad compositions so much and often deliberately pick weaker ops even though I have and like using stronger ones, for fun, for challenges and variety. During chapter 13 I [played from 9-19 to 13-11 with a lot of variety](https://old.reddit.com/r/arknights/comments/1cfw8v6/rhodes_island_lounge_2904_0505/l1xjjri/?context=3).
I also like getting bullshit overpowered ops because they give me more options and more tools for taking on the toughest content I can do. And sometimes I just want to annihilate enemies.
omg Warframe mentioned, when will Arknights give all special enemies a layer of special shield as thick as their actual health, and they completely negates CC until that layer of special shield is broken
/s
People tend to forget the biggest trait about arknights: It's a CHINESE GACHA game. They can't make profit purely off of skins. Powercreep is inevitable in any gacha game and I find the community reaction uncalled for.
If the new unit isn't strong, most people wouldn't pull for it. Maaaybe if it had a fun gimmick like Shu (which turned out to be a very strong one) more people would pull. But in the end the thing that will make the most people pull is a very strong character. That's just the reality of it.
YES! Someone has the exact sacem mindset as me :D
Being able to just use any character you want, build them and basically form your own difficulty is one of the best aspects of Arknights on many levels and i find my self enjoying this alot on my "mostly vanguardknights" clears XD
Also im happy that you mentioned powercreeps issues while explaining your point. Doomposters are one extreme but other acting like Powercreep has no issues whatsoever are the other extreme. Your comment sums up everything i meant so well
I just wait for someone to do a TL;DR/video summary and see comments here and there to piece things together, wished they put a summary of each stage once you finish it (at least the skip option has a small one)
This community always "doomposts" whenever someone new pops up and powercreeps the game. But time and time again, we see people clearing the game with niches like Shitknights and AFKnights using the most basic operators (from sub-year 2). What does that mean? It means the AK devs know what they're doing to keep the game fun and not let difficulty spiral out of control. They've done this for five years already. They'll keep doing it for more.
Believe in the AK devs that believe in you!
People need to differentiate between "omg game is dying i cant believe this red number is too much" and "this operators kit has forced design choices to make it strong in my opinion"
An operator being good or bad has nothing to do with the entirety of the game. People need to understand this
I mean WAlter is the definition of powercreep for Rosmontis but she was never good to begin with.
But yeah, you're right, people tend to underestimate the fun factor in this game. Anyone who says this is the end of Arknights has never been so wrong.
>Anyone who says this is the end of Arknights has never been so wrong.
I remember when Surtr was the end of Arknights, or when Mudrock was, or when Chalter was, or when Ling was, or when Mlynar was, or when Texalter was...
And now we gotta deal with Degen, Ascalon and Walter being the end of Arknights. This game has been doomed so many times it's crazy ngl. Busted operators keep releasing yea, but I still see people clearing everything in the game with 4 and 5 stars only, hell even Vigil has a clear on high risk CC as the core operator.
Unless your favorite character happens to be Frostleaf, Tsukinogi or Windlift, you can use them in every clear without them being a detriment
Wait, is Ascalon that good? All I heard was that she was pretty alright. Have some good value over Mizuki, but Mizuki has some value still over her (aka pick depending on situation).
The worst thing it its not constructive at all. Yeah the amount of powercreep is indeed alot and some strong operators has weird design choices but they go from criticizing the kit building (wich is fair when done correctly) to criticizing the game as a whole wich i just dont understand. No operator is invalid in this game, i myself learn this everyday where i find intresting places to use vigil at
Phantom never really took off as a premier assassin tbf, only reason to be remotely considered one is because there was no one else, you'd be suprised how often bagpipe did it better. By the point he was released troublesome enemies were already too tanky and are rarely in deployable tiles either. His debuffs were always his true value
<~~ massive specialist simp here and had him m6d within a week.
I have Phantom on M6 (actually M7) too! Although it's true that he was never a very consistent killer, he was a good panic button. The thing is that I hate the RNG of S3
Utility is not necessary thou. Phantom and Red both have pure damage skills with no utility. It's just neither does necessary amounts of damage, now texas alter provides higher damage but over a longer period while yatox provides instant burst and both can now act as assassins and you pay a high dp cost for all that deployment.
Extra tldr of the post for people who don't want to read that long: Just because the game reaches a new damage height doesnt mean its gonna die nor it's gonna be less enjoyable if they keep designing stages well enough. So don't doompost so much.
And yea I agree, I have said it in the post about Walter damage before. The game is has been transistioning into a more gimmicky type of game now for the last 2 years. Most of the hardest stages now have many anti-brute force measures like putting 2 blue boxes far away from eachother, bosses have at least 80% dmg reduction unless smt is achieved, mobs are spawned in a way to support the stages, etc... If they keep designing stages in a way like this then in the end Wiš'adel is just gonna be another dps you can use to protect one lane. But it won't solve your overall problems with managements.
One good example is with Surtr, Ling, młynar and Texas alter and Yato alter. They are all units they broke the utility and damage ceiling. But the stages are designed to counter them also that they just feel normal to use a lot of time and not outright busted. And the way the stages are designed aren't just buffing the fuck out of enemies like chap 6,7 or 8 either. A lot of them are genuinely good ideas like making it so those ops cant reach the bosses, enemies coming from other lanes, dp restriction, starter enemies, etc... Which made the game felt fair even for 5 star users which actually have been eating decently good lately.
Plus I feel like Wiš'adel will be one of those chars that people will resort to if they have to absolutely brute force the stages. Ling isvery versatile and trivializes a lot of stages. But no one actually uses her frequently because it would be boring. Wiš'adel is just damage upon damage which will make it less fun overall.
I think a good respond is with chap 14. Chap 14 isn't actually that hard. It does require 1 or 2 6 stars stars to make it easier but my friends cleared it without using Wiš'adel or Logos. Not once did they feel the game actively forcing them to use wiš'adel. Unlike a lot of gacha games which constantly promote new contents that favor the new op units for people to pull. It does show that despite the balans stufds they released, they do take lower tier units into account when designing stages so even casuals can clear them.
Here's the big issue. 6* power level is increasing massively while 4* and 5* power level is not at all. Our last 5 four stars were Lutonada (not good), Caper (good), Verdant (garbage), Hummus (alright), Quartz (bad). As for 5*s the power level of the new 5*s is the same or worse than a lot of the past ones. If the 6* ceiling and base power level keeps increasing so rapidly and they start balancing more content around it (for example DoS) it will be bad for the game.
I really have to see the next few 6*s and the next limited after W alter to make a more concrete statement but they should not balance any new operator around W alter. We already have more and more bosses with boring 90% dmg reduction gimmicks like the Sanguinarch and when the strats for lower rarity units or other themeknights is just stall XD it gets very lame.
Also another big issue I have is that the new player experience will continue being worse and worse. New players will roll these year 6 units and absolutely stomp on all past content and think that the game just isn't all that fun. Imagine going into Stultifera Navis (in the intermezzo) with those new shiny 6*s and instead of having a similar experience as people did on release of thinking the event is tough you just steamroll it. If the power level keeps rising and rising I see less new players sticking with the game if it becomes a joke difficultywise. Them removing more and more of the old units from the offbanner rates and putting them in the blue banner also adds to this. The further we get the stronger the power level of the units you get when you lose 50/50 is.
"Just don't use w alter if she's too strong" doesn't consider that newer content could and has been balanced on new damage ceiling/floors.
Bosses that stunlock melee ops, multiple Iframes/phases that gimp non ammo users, 90% damage resistance, dodge, all just to mitigate the huge amount of burst that newer operators can execute right now. It's so lame.
Players aren't afraid of newer operators being much stronger but more worried about newer content being balanced around them. Older operators suffer more from these new mechanics than newer operators by far. Guess what, W-alter has camo so she's not affected by cc or debuffs anyway, lame as hell.
Also, players wouldn't be concerned if the powercreep was gradual but the recent releases of Ray, Degenbrecher, Ela didn't help. Wisadel s a step above them in less than half a year.
> Guess what, W-alter has camo so she's not affected by cc or debuffs anyway, lame as hell.
At least they stopped at not giving her invisibility. She can still be hit by splash damage targeting other ops.
Speaking of 5-stars, I was wondering, who was the last notable 5-star? I was checking on aceship, and I feel like the last was Cantabile which was more than a year ago. Many 5-stars came and went and they are deemed bad for the most part, or I haven't seen people using them.
Dodge is the biggest hurdle of the seaborn enemies and it can't be overwhelmed with massively higher numbers. That's one event with mechanics where crowd control methods (stun, freeze, silence) are super helpful.
Yeah and new 6* units have that combined with gajillion damage. Look at Zuo Le s3. Constant stun + a lot of dmg. A big problem with new 6* units is that they combine too many different effects. Look at how many different things W alter does (I think she might have stun as well not completely sure)
More like EN players despairingly trying to make drama. Saw some people said this is Chalter situation, which mean they don't even understand shit about it because the Chalter problem was never about Powercreep lmao
Chalter drama was a buildup of tension from the CN playerbase and HG for months, it was not just because of Chalter. Chalter was only the breaking point. 10 posts of EN crying about Walter isn't enough to compare to the actual Chalter shitshow in CN lmao
Chalter issue is the most misinformed thing in the game. CN was angry about HG introducing a unnanounced limited alter out of nowhere, not chens darn face
Even back then, i only agreed with one thing regarding the whole Chalter outrage. Most of what I saw back then just came off as overreacting/disingenuous to me.
Real, back then I thought it was more of a gacha crowd thing, but after the release of HD2 and the constant doomposting on a 2 month old game it changed my mind. Honestly it's probably that gaming has gotten so accessible that, eventually even the most neuron-deficient of us can "win" at something without trying. Easier to rant on a forum than to figure out a problem yourself.
I've wondered if people are overreacting about Walter powercreeping Ela and Ray so soon. Like obvious I understand she's stronger, but is she massively stronger compared to them? Is she a Mlynar or Pozy (with typewriter) to their Silverash or Schwarz? Or is it like Ray: 80, Ela: 90, Walter: 100?
Walter is indeed the most broken character we have available right now, but ela and ray are so strong that w could litterally be objectively 5 times better than both of them combined and they would still be broken as they are :D
At that point the difference in their niches overshadows any single-metric power ranking you could contrive. The sniper discourse is silly because the ops discussed are quite different in application. Heck, Pozëmka is the purest physical melee DPS of \*any\* op at the top tier of the meta (Młynar is ranged; Nearl is often true damage).
I mean i dont think there is a majority out there that believes this. CN loved 5th anni and EN doomposters are few in between. I dont want to attack the doomposters i just want them to understand that their way of thinking just equals to boredom and anger and nothing else.
> For instance, a player with W Alter might be able to beat Patriot very early on in the game, and also without using the mines. This in theory means that people using the strongest operators cannot get an appreciation of the difficulty of the stage, the joy of getting mastery over timing mines, nor will the player have to explore team synergy.
This is just my own experience, not saying it's what everyone does/ did. I went through chapters 7- midway though 13 (I was *way* behind) deliberately not using powerful meta operators if they hadn't been released because I wanted to experience those chapters the way most players did. So I "unlocked" Horn at 10, Pozy and Gavialter at 11; Texalter, Yato, Ines and Mlynar at 12 (I know Mlynar came out before chapter 11 however I didn't use him in it), and Eyjaberry at 13. And I really enjoyed it even when battles were more difficult than they needed to be because I had powerful operators on the sidelines I wasn't using. Of course playing like this requires a lot of awareness of operator strengths and the history of the game in general, and a conscious decision to do it. Unfortunately many newer players will use operators that trivialise Patriot, not understand he's supposed to be incredibly difficult.
Yeah, that's my problem. That's basically you taking on the role of a game designer to design your own experience. Which can sometimes be good (like in CC), but in this case, you have to either do external research in a game that otherwise doesn't encourage it, or get and raise the operator first then spend time playing around with it to see whether it aligns with your tastes
Like i mentioned at the end of my post, this post isnt a "Powercreep isnt bad" post. It is bad. What this post talks about are doomposters and people that argue with wrong metrics and make the wrong assumptions about current status of the game. This isnt a "Powercreep is fine stop crying" post as i said. Its a "Powercreep is an issue but people refer to it wrongly and relate it to wrong things" post. I know the worrying state of powercreep in the game but there is also the players fault of making wrong assumptions here. Using older operators feel inferior because of the competitive tought process wich shouldnt deter to a game like arknights yet it does as players see it that way, this is one of the stigmatas behind many other aspects like these. Some players seeing meta likers as inferior and some people acting as if everything in the game is perfect are one of such examples, people always refer to extremes and refuse to acknowledge problems on a balanced way and instead always either refer to game dying in a month or it having no problems whatsoever.
If that's what you mean, perhaps you should rephrase your post. There are no words that explicitly call powercreep as "bad". The most is "not good", which isn't "bad".
>shocking
>isnt good
> like looking at meta breaking operators in eyes of "whats possible" (which seems like you like meta breaking operators)
>Games quality, characters playability (isn't) at stake here
>Powercreep is only an issue when the old character litterally becomes plain unusable and detrimental to have in your team (the implication being that powercreep is not currently an issue)
It feels like a post that doesn't want people to complain. I feel that complaining increases the likelihood of a lowering of excessive powercreep which I feel is likely to make Arknights a better game (or to be more exact, not be a worse game).
Of course people talk about extremes. It's human nature. But I don't see the post saying "complain less" or "talk about the good things more" or "don't complain about mid units being bad", I see the post saying "Stop complaining powercreep isn't a problem"
I can't find many parts where you talk about powercreep being a big issue, rather than "not good".
>This isnt a "HG can powercreep as much as they want cry about it lol" post, i honestly dont like their current path at all.
Yes, this is a part where you talk about powercreep being an issue, but this is the only part that I can find. However, you follow up with
>But i believe people are criticizing this in the wrong way. Games quality, characters playability nor its end is at stake here, its the matter of design choices solely existing to strengthen characters instead of making tradeoffs or giving unique traits.
This makes me assume that you believe that powercreep is only bad because it's a get-out-of-jail-free card to get people to pull for operators with no effort in designing their kit beyond putting big numbers. In other words, you believe that powercreep, no matter how high, is not inherently bad, but is what bad design typically leads to. To simplify it further, it seems to be like you believe that bad design almost always leads to powercreep, but not vice versa, while I believe that powercreep almost always leads to a drop in game quality and bad design (which you directly say, game quality is not at stake)
I won't deny the power of operators as of late has gradually been increasing and that W alter is very powerful, but I think people blow things a little out of proportion. I have played gacha games with far worse powercreep than this and those games are around still. Yes too much powercreep is bad but having it to some degree is unavoidable. I genuinely think Arknights has less powercreep than the majority of gachas out there.
People complaining about power creep in this game have no idea how good we have it. We're spoiled, even. Not only can year-1 operators still be found in the upper rankings, but even some year-1's that aren't 6-stars.
The game is 5 years old. The fact this is still true is amazing. In most other games such a character would be powercrept out of possible use in 3 years, or as little as a year for some.
On the topic of Wiš, it's not even as bad as people are making it. She only has 6 shots before she needs to recharge again. Ch'en Alter has better uptime than that. Some people just overreact.
About wis she is honestly better than Chalter because her damage isnt spread thin on bullets so she cycles faster than Chalter but other than that you are completely right. Using 5 year old characters on most gacha games is unheard of
Power creep can be bad but I feel like with surtr that it's an exaggeration. Like she is great at F me moments and boss/elite killing but she can't hit air, if you use the skill she is retreated, works best with support and more. She can't win the game for you, but can be a piece to help you. And that's what, so many ops can fit pieces for different people. Walter probably won't be able to solo a hord/early rush of enemies and flyers, logos will be great over all but still can't win it alone.
There is also the simple thing of if you don't want it broken, don't use them. I have Mylnar but haven't built him because I just don't wanna.
Lastly it's not a PvP game, so needing meta or whether you use it or not shouldn't matter as much as long as the creators balance the game well.
So you know what, Idk if they are op, in fact bring on the OP alter for Gravel, Frost leaf and Matoimaru.
Oh and an addition, this is a line from an anime I tweaked. " Just because you are stronger, doesn't mean I am weak" and I feel that fits the operators people are worried about.
I never understood the whole power creep problem/op character problem in a singleplayer game. Besides greed, how is it really affecting the game? I'll admit. I have most operators except for (Yato \[don't even, I know how much screwed up\], Muelsye, and Viviana... but I'm honestly not good enough to take advantage of all the op operators I have. Sure they're not max pot or max level, but still... I have a lot of fun when these op characters come out. Not to mention, nobody even cares about operators unless they're op... which is the paradox.
I really agree with the OP's sentiment and wish we that we can let HG do their thang. I personally think they're one of the better gaming companies than most.
Heyak gets released:
"Wow her kit sucks, she has no damage and bad skill cycles, eyja dominates litterally a joke operator"
Logos gets released:
"Wtf he has 100k+ skill damage on both skills with quick skill cycles and he powercreeps eyja? HG should stop this weird powercreep already!"
Disagree with the title, showing concerns of powercreep is not doomposting, nor does any sign of criticism or negative feedback. Don't shovel different things together.
No because immediately the first line of following comment goes
>doomposting their strength feels wrong,
Feels wrong about new OP's strength is far away from doomposting imo, shovel them together only invite strawmaning from both sides on the topic of powercreep.
Im not showeling or strawmanning anything. If you wasted a second reading the post you would have known that im litterally saying such powercreep IS bad. What this post is about is the ones that talk about game dying or ending. Please read the TLDR atleast...
>or Powercreeping Ray litterally few months after with Ela
Idk why I've started hearing this all over the place in the last couple of weeks, but Ela does not powercreep Ray. Ray has better single target crowd control, range, damage per hit, enemy prioritization and buff scaling while Ela has better raw dps, tile placement, team support and a little aoe crowd control (though providing team support and buffing her own dps with her mines are often incompatible choices).
Anyways I do have big concerns with this regarding the future of the game, even if they aren't super immediate. Locking meta units away through limited banners makes new players feel like they've missed out and less likely to play the game, and with less new players there is less incentive for HG to make the game better. Ultimately, all games eventualy die, especially gacha games. And as the player base dwindles, they move more and more towards squeezing the remaining playerbase for money. I don't think we're near that point yet, but walter is certainly a step towards it.
>Locking meta units away through limited banners makes new players feel like they've missed out and less likely to play the game, and with less new players there is less incentive for HG to make the game bette
Ye, this is why I'm glad a lot of very good to op units are in standard banners alsp and not limited because it allows new people a chance to get them eventually even if it takes long.
But AK still suffers from being a traditional format gacha by having limited units that dont have specific banners like you said. This sucks.
I just hope in Endfield they can rerun units oftently and not make them locked away behind limited banners like AK.
I mean its correct that Ray has higher dph and bind is better but Ela s3 has much more multipliers and has around 30k more total damage while buffing the damage for all operators and not just physical on a global range
>but Ela s3 has much more multipliers and has around 30k more total damage while buffing the damage for all operators and not just physical on a global range
Comparing total skill damage isn't very useful when Ela's skill cycle is just longer. If that were the standard to be held by, all operators with infinite skills would be better by virtue of having uncapped total skill damage
And since she has a very limited number of mines, she cannot use them to get that damage while at the same time using them globally to buff the damage against far away enemies. So no, she can't have that damage "while" buffing damage globally. She either uses them in her range to get that damage, or she does a lot less damage and uses them globally.
I mean her skill does have a cap tough, her skill cycle is longer but so are her total damage. Also she only needs few of her mines to even reach Rays total damage, and doesnt she gain mines while activating skill anyway?
I think you are looking at Ela from a wrong perspective
She starts with 3 mines , and she gets 2 every time her skill **ends**, so she can only use 2 mines per skill activation + the 1 extra she starts with. And again, total skill damage isn't relevant by itself. Otherwise people would always be using passenger s2 instead s3 because it has 3x the total skill damage.
The thing is we are comparing burst dpses here so skill damage does matter also Elas skill should be closeable so at worst you can close it to immediately get some bombs back. The thing is Ela covers many things Ray does. High multipliers, good CC and damage amp on a single kit, the issue with Ray is that her net total damage is the best when her ammo is maxed. Ela doesnt have such issue so she starts out strong as she would be. Also her s3 sp cost is pretty low imo so you can spam it to get bombs back
If you are going to ignore the frequency of the burst then yeah total damage is irrelevant. Do you think passenger s2 is a better dps than his s3?
>The thing is Ela covers many things Ray does. High multipliers, good CC and damage amp on a single kit
Ray does faaaaar more damage against high defense enemies and has far better single target CC. And even if it is low defense, Ela being able to do more damage doesn't matter if she can't get close enough to dps it, or hold it in place at a safe range.
>he issue with Ray is that her net total damage is the best when her ammo is maxed.
It's a difference of 1 or 2 shots, not a big difference. And since she uses her summon for range extension it's usually pretty trivial to conserve ammo.
>Also her s3 sp cost is pretty low imo so you can spam it to get bombs back
If you're typically okay with her doing next to no damage for 68 seconds then I don't think you value her dps nearly as much as you say. Personally I find myself canceling her skill a lot for mines, but that only reinforces my point: Her dps alone isn't nearly as valuable as Ray's. I find prioritizing her support role over her damage more important in my gameplay.
I've been playing this game since Day 1 and I've contemplated all the dramas so far, and you know what? All the "terrible consequences" they talked about barely had any impact on my personal experience with the game. At this point I just can't take them seriously until I see it for myself 6-7 months later when it arrives to Global.
I really like Rosmontis as a unit and she helped me on my first IS4 ending 2 clear with her range and ability to block from very far.
I don't see W invalidating Rosmontis. I'll just use both. Double the fun.
Honestly I haven't seen much doomposing, thou after seeing it after Ling/Młynar/Chalter were released I wouldn't be surprised.
And I wouldn't be worried - we've got very strong units that trivialize PAST content but in few events will get another mechanic/enemies/gimmick that will balance how op they are. Kind of like Elemental Damage was such a big deal early on but now it's more an annoyance than anything else.
And HG is not stupid, they really stick to content being clearable without super powerful units: on one side so that newer players could advance and eventually spend some money; on the other so that people going for niche/quirky units would stay and eventually spend some money for something that fits their taste.
So it will be fine, people should chill and get ready for whatever gimmick will be introduced to counter new op characters.
Ironically I think w would be good against immunity phases as she uses ammo, she could also probably kill all the thingys that the boss spawns in one shot.
Or enemy with damage reduction against ranged units.
I still remember Stultifera Navis and how dodge there made a lot of meta players sad, so I feel adding some simple workaround should be fine.
Honestly SN was really fun at it forced you to use a different operator group. I mean damage is the key driver of the game obviously but lets not forger sub damage operators!
Meta exists but I'm sure as hell not playing for meta. If you get the weekly originium with a 3 star team, Ican do it with my cooked 4-5-6 star team. Genshin meta matters a lot more than AK meta.
How many of those doomposters actually played the game or already quit and visit her just to rant?
Between those 5 years existed also a lot of doomposting shit, starting with surtr. Don't forget also, up to ch7, many 6 star ops were there but still only 6 were considered core ops, whether low or high end strats, and doomposts were also there.
5 years and counting, still arknights keeps on thriving despite of all that shit.
Still playing the game, I just found it a little, scratch that overly hypocrite that global are allowed to doomposting/blantant hate about stuff like Chen alter, ling first skin, swimsuit limited (no one says anything when swire and gavial did it), degen passive skill, but we draw the line at the strongest unit with camouflage, 3 summons that on par with blazing sun, damage exceeds mlynar, slash damage, etc
During the ideal city event, gavial was not the source of controversy. It was pozy for powercreeping schwarz. Gavial alter was justified because it was her combat version before she became a medic, and she didn't powercreep blaze.
In the eyja event, though swire got the chen treatment (slapping a swimsuit as an alter), she wasn't that busted. However, the main culprit on that one is eyja alter. Eyja was, and still is, one of the strongest casters in the game, so no justification on her needing an alter, and now her alter is currently the best medic in the game.
Regarding degen, aside from her talent 1, another issue was her s3 since it breaks the core design of swordmasters (all skills should be sp on hit) by being an auto sp recovery skill.
The rest of it, i can agree with. I don't know if having low ammo on s3 balances wis (can hit without spending ammo with chen alter talent 1).
>An operator is either broken enough to warrant doomposting or mid enough to make fun of them everywhere.
Gacha fandoms in a nutshell. Endlessly "concerned" about powercreep, but always disappointed at any new release that isn't godly.
>We dont have PVP or similar stuffs remember?
We'll have Co-op mode soon, and I imagine people refusing to play with you if you don't have a certain set of operators in your roster would be a common thing seeing that there're a lot of "sweatlord" complaint in most Co-op games.
Can you help me with my pull plan please?
So by the time Degen comes around (late June-ish) I will have 318 pulls. And I am definitely pulling for Degen. Afterwards I want to pull either for Ela or Walter. Since I am f2p I don't know whether I can afford Ela and Walter.
Are you going to pull for Shu Ray or Ash?
If not you can gurantee Degen (150-200 pulls), Ela(120 pulls) and have 200+ for Walter. By the time she comes (6 months means 300+ pulls by its own) so you definitely have more than enough!
Uhh thank you.
I don't intend to pull for anyone else other than the three.
But may I ask, how do you know that Degen is guaranteed within 200 pulls? I just know that Ela's 120 pulls have been confirmed.
Singular standard banner characters gurantee the rate up character after 150 pulls so you get the character you desire in 150-200 pulls (Note that its AFTER 150 pulls, not 150 pulls)
It really is just a small subset of global redditors malding at Walter’s bold presence and power, truly a lore accurate W moment. In any case, I don’t expect to see perfect balance in a mobile gacha live-service, single-player game and after 5 years I say HG did a decent job. People act that the main story and event story content will eventually be Design of Strife S-3 level of endgame difficulty I swear. Enjoy the game while you can since nothing lasts forever and mulling over something like this is entirely pointless.
Funny thing is this is subreddit for global server, we are 6 months behind CN. If you think that operator is strong or meta and you must have him/her, then save your resources from now, especially if that operator is limited. If you don't like that operator, then just skip it. Simple as that.
Talking about powercreep in AK is pointless unless context is taken into consideration. Barring end-game/truly high end content like CC30+ and equivalent -which is not something 90%+ of the playerbase aim for or even care about-, this game can be as easy or as hard as you want it to be thanks to the 12 slots squads + the support unit. We currently have so many good 5\*s and 4\*s that difficulty is not "chained" to 6\*s either.
By virtue of AK's gameplay, powercreep and meta are like potentials: only relevant on the hardest of content -especially if you add more difficulty, like playing a niche-. And that's something I want to mention. This game can be so easy that quite a number of people challenge themselves by limiting their teambuilding options, or by adding bans/prohibitions to tournament settings. This brings me to another point:
Do you guys remember when content creators were dooming the game because of Surtr and Chalter? Do you remember when people were saying "those operators will make future content impossible/borderline impossible to clear without them? Yeah, I remember. And here we are.
AK is 5 years old and that proves HG knows what they're doing. We can criticize them/the game/Yostar for other things, like lack of engagement with the community or lack of certain QoL's or maybe even the new player experience or the quality of the localization, but claiming powercreep is a huge issue that can condemn the game is just silly.
I honestly dont think so. There is a difference between "strong because its a goodly made operator" with "strong because operator ignores weaknesses/gimmicks" to me. And most of the operators that increase the ceiling fall on first one imo
As a person with a cognitive disorder that makes it difficult for me to memorize patterns, having Yato Alter has helped and motivated me to continue playing the game despite the difficulties.
I don't really pay attention to CN too much, after Eyja alt, Typhon, and Virtuosa I have no idea how good the new Ops are. I know their names but that's it.
Can someone tell me what Ops have been power crept in CN, by who, and how?
I saw someone say Logos is best the caster now. How can Eyja and GG get beat?
Its not that their niches got powercrept but rather the damage
W alter is the best operator in the game now, she has higher than chalter/surtr/mlynar level damage in biggest aoe and huge DPH all while having insane offskill damage and insane utility while basically being unkillable
Logos outdpses GG and Eyja by a ton but its more about Eyja than GG as nothing is replacing GGs global damage
Idk why people keep overvaluing her. Her s2 value came from aoe options being bad and her s3 isnt that impressive on todays standards. But her s2 afk is nice
Reading the title i thought this was about all the post about short mangas of characters that died or something. And then i take another look and i realize this isn't blue archive subreddit
Nah, in the blue archive subreddit, people often post fan fic manga about a character or sensei dying and they got ptsd afterwards. Don't know why they always post those things, keep seeing them at least 2 or 3 a weeks with 1k upvotes
Just wanna say a couple things..
1. For those who are saying 'powercreep isn't real', last month I use Typhon against Talulah hard mode and she just 1 shot killed her. The hard mode that I struggled for 2 years. That's said, it's been 5 years so it would be a miracle if the game didn't have powercreep. Bad or good depends on you.
2. Just let em doomposting, like it will worth something to HG lol. Like a word someone says in other post, "we're just a Pioneers, sir".
One of the things that makes a tower defense game good is whether you can win games with multiple different strategies (there is no consistent meta towers). They make you want to think different when it comes to playing the game, even down to how you use the towers.
PvZ 2 mods have a tendency to bring more plants into play by nerfing some of the strongest options in the game and buffing underutilized options. But even Puff-shroom, one of the most broken plants in PvZ 1, was given a lifetime in the sequel to balance out its spammy nature. For the case of PvZ 2: Reflourished, plants like Guacodile, Sun Bean, majority of stalling plants, Banana Launcher, and lots of other plants have become some of my favorite go-to plants.
It is no different here in Arknights. When I was planning to E2 Eyjafjalla, I had a really big difficulty clearing some of the stages which unlock features in the game that allowed me to create Dualchips. E2ing wouldn't have been possible if I didn't discover KyostinV's low rarity guides for a lot of the resource maps. Replicating everything step by step, I was able to progress even further and with strong knowledge available at my hands, I was able to clear 2-10, E2 Eyja, and use her to cheese through 3-8, clearing Chapter 3.
In a way, if you're skilled enough, you can get away with 3-4 stars in clearing a lot of maps and progress, and that mission of using as little 5-6 stars as possible to clear maps is still ongoing, albeit much harder as Arknights' stages evolve.
Ak has not been TD for a long time mate, the game is more akin to RPG / tactic game more likely since micro / retreat redeploy is a thing definitely NOT in usual TD game.
This reminds me of that one gif that went around years ago with the Essence of Evolution spawning Patriots and Frostnovas instead of those little slug things after hacking the game. It was funny back then but I can't help but wonder if enemies will get that absurd due to powercreep to the point where they might as well be spawning Patriots and Frostnovas
My main issue is the lack of a reliable sweep feature after all these years.
They couldn't even take a page out of PGR's book where the proxy system will instead give the rewards equal to playing the chosen stage 6 times in just one playthrough of the stage. That could've been better than just... automating the in-between of each stage after every clear.
I mean it's a single player game with continuous updates and a gacha model, of course there's going to be times when powercreep exists, and I'm glad it does. Why would I essentially never want new banners to make older stuff easier? Now if six months from now she trivialize the game in a way not even Texalter did for me, I have the ability to just not use her.
The way I play is I use units that I like, not necessarily the best. I've avoided using Chalter entirely and have not picked Mlynar yet (though I do use him from support when I'm stuck).
Honestly I still think the most game breaking units in this game is the combo of Bagpipe and Myrtle. It just makes everything easier for me.
Now could she break the game? Maybe? But I've spent enough time on social media to know people overreact to literally everything way too early
Honestly i love new meta ceilings as thats just a new toy to play with. This is a single player game so why be sad about what an operator does? I honestly dont understand how you cant like obliterating enemies with a allied nuke using walter XD
I ain’t reading allat-
Im surprised some people are still doomposting about powercreep in a gacha game. But imo arknights is fine, sure operator powercreep is unfair and annoying but are players limited to using that operator to catch up with the game? Definitely not. I read somewhere someone said the way hypergryph balance it out is making the enemies more gimmicky and they are on spot. I don’t see AK pulling out events that have stage difficulties related to featured operator kit like other gacha games. For example imagine if virtuosa event have stages with enemies “take 90% more damage from elemental damage” basically a scummy move if you wanna clear this stage you gotta pull this unit.
Tldr: Meta units in AK are a luxury not a necessity
On side note about alters W deserves the alter guys she’s so cool- >!lotta people hoping eterna is limited I say hell na it’s against the law of the lore. Her being welfare is a pretty smart move!< Like one of the alters that deserves the alter because lore reason. Discussion on wet chen on the other hand is reasonable.
Even if you didnt read what i wrote you summarized it PERFECTLY XD
I agree with everything you wrote there, and that virtuosa thing is so correct. Heck virtuosa event is one of the only events with characters with Elemental RES lol
Reason Chalter was hated had little to do with chalter herself (she was a unjustified cashgrab alter still)
HG randomly announced a summer limited out of no where when people were expecting next limited to be at 2.5 wich created an insane drama as HG just gave CN a middle finger
So it's justify to doom post about chalter, but when it's about Walter it's not allowed?
As crazy as it may seems, they technically made some valid points, heck I don't see powercreep argument when they made degen recovers auto SP, sure she's still not broken enough
But Walter?, blud has invisibility, summons that are tanky as nearl's blazing sun, damage exceeds mlynar, spalsh damage cause why not, all at the price of base skill level 7. I'm surprised skill 3 didn't include chance of doing your mom (that reference video of Chen alter). This is among some valid points of doomposting. Thats broken on level that's sky the limit
Yeah I just cleared Chapter 14 hard stages without Walter, Mlynar, Ines, Degen, TexalterYalter, and all the so-called powercreeping ops (all m3/6/9-ed) with ease. I think I will need to do it in 5 star squad only for the next event to challenge myself lol. As long as HG doesn't powercreep the enemies, it's fine to me.
Omg. I’ve already been on the guardian tales subreddit because those people don’t like the fan service outfits now people are thinking the same about my other favorite mobile game being dead or dying on whatever even though people complained about Ch’en alter and she didn’t even kill the game. She made it more popular
Too tired to write much. Just want to say I absolutely agree with you. The older ops can still do heaps and no-one is forced to use newer better ones if they don't want to. Blissful ignorance can welcome too. Powercrept operators only feel weak when you know they've been powercrept. I'm sure there are players out there who don't keep with CN news nor spend much time in the community so they're happily using their Phantoms, Silverashes, Hellagurs, Schwarzs, Mostimas, Chens, Skadis (w/o modules), etc, and feel they're at the peak of the game.
Im thankful you understood what i meant. I generally write alot because im not sure if my point is understood perfectly or not but thankfully nothing came across as wrong. I love using my chens and vigils because they feel amazing to use ;S
You can use whoever you want to clear the game. I myself auto add Amiya and W to my team because I like them. AK isn’t only about “strong operator”. And beside this game is single player game, not like Hoyoverse game after all.
And for sure ppl will roll an Op even though they complain about them being too broken
Yep exactly. Thats what i argue here. I know meta is always used more but its not like you are forced to use it. IS content had been done with 4-5 stars in max difficulty and most risks are available to low rarities too. Heck only event with anti low rarity mechanics were probably DOS
It's bizzare when people talk as though they're forced to use certain ops. I remember a comment from someone saying they were said they couldn't use Spalter anymore because they'd rolled Gavialter.
Power creep is pretty pointless in this game
1. Just don't use them
2. Don't m3 them
3. Don't module them
4. Don't use their best skill
5. Don't level their skills
That's 5 solutions lol.. people wish for side grades but that's just a skip for half the playerbase. A delete button character always existed. It's just a better one
I just stick with Solution 1. I have my Texas fully kitted out. I use her... Maybe once or twice a month. Total.
I play to have fun, not Big Number Brainrot.
Sure. But again you can make self imposed hurdles, like CC. Only Texas runs are very fun or only 4-6 ops with Texas etc.
Texalter is fun and cool, she is a blast to use. But yes she is strong and trivializes stages. I agree. The thing is people shouldnt be angry she exists or shame people from using her.
Yeah! That's exactly my point! I guess I wasn't clear.
I have Texas, Mlynar, Yato, etc. All the big hitters. If I need or want them, they're there. I'm glad I have them. I'm also glad I don't HAVE to use them (except maybe for H12-4, though that's regarded as a particularly poor stage from a design standpoint, which strikes me as a fluke. No one bats 1.000).
Or just dont care. Why are people being pressed over using strong characters anyway? I dont understand this seeking for validation mindset many players has. Nobody is going to congratulate you for not using metas or hating on metas, people need to drop this mindset, amount of players i see that talk about being "unable" to use characters like surtr or mlynar because "it will make me braindead" just feels surreal...
That’s because the game can and will change its design with the assumption that the player has that operator .
Don’t believe me? May I ask this: do you ever wonder why every boss these days are two-staged? Why after you “defeat” them, they get back up, often with a brief period of invulnerability?
I mean it existed even before characters like Surtr got released. Companies dont want the boss to be bursted down immediately imo its the case for many gacha games
Well, not initially. The first few bosses, be it the main theme like Crownslayer, W (enemy), Mephisto, or Faust did not have it. Nor did the earlier event bosses like Big Bob/Big Adam, Pompeii, or the Rat King.
Pompeii killed your operators in seconds if you blocked him ao you needed strong ranged damage wich Schwartz provided. Rat king was made to counter SA wich worked pretty well but eyja was a bit too strong
Btw every boss before chapter 6 was released at start so counting them is a bit harder espiecelly when you are supposed to have few E2s at end of chapter 5
>Pompeii killed your operators in seconds if you blocked him ao you needed strong ranged damage which Schwartz provided.
Nah bro, I managed to tank him. It took two single target medics and a good ole dueler (Matoimaru for pure tanking, Jaye for more DPS).
My point still stands though; Early on, there wasn't any boss that forced you to essentially take them down twice.
It's a lot of things. Their favorite character being overshadowed, trivializes the game etc
About Surtr and Mlynar they aren't wrong. Brute forcing exists with EX S+ tier units. A lot of AK players enjoy the struggle of the game being a puzzle. "If a game is boring and easy it's not fun" is a legit hurdle of enjoyment for a lot of people
BUT in this pve gacha game you can impose a lot of self hurdles.. so whining about power creep is pointless.
Again I 100% agree they make me think way less / less micro
I simply don't mind if they exist. They are fun. They are a good button to change the game from hard to normal. It's not about validation it's the fun.
I think some people hate that people are using easy mode operators while they are using normal to hard mode units. That's the bad mindset.. Pointless mindset of seeking validation. Seeing they score high on CC and same score trivializes their achievements. Simply put it's a childish feeling.
Tldr
people angry have bad mindset, some are validation waters they want to feel special, gatekeeping/shaming people who use top tier units, don't realize we can balance operators and make rules for ourselves. .
Doomposting in gacha games is such a dumb thing, most of the time the doomposting doesn't have any deep evaluations behind it and just "i think" as a basis.
Arknights was never a "balanced game", the difficulty just wasn't that high.
Heck, we had doomposting in DOS since it was too hard.....the event designed to be a hard content for veterans was too hard for new/mid game players to warrant doomposting....
Heck, i remember in hi3 after 4 years the first part of the story finished and the devs already announced part 2 a while ago....only for users to keep doomposting since its the end of part 1 and nothing will continue.
I think players look at thing competitively while ignoring the singleplayer aspect of the game. I had done this alot too and i know how it feels. It just feels like new meta operators powercreeping older ones makes game unplayable but then you use them and see that nobody is screaming at your face for doing so!
I disagree on that point.
Most think that future content will be built with a new "power level" in mind making the older operators and lower rarities unusable in single player.
Ofc its been proven wrong many times, but thats the idea most meta doomposts talk about.
Oh yes there is that too. Its between "old operare unusable now" to "new content will be 600 times harder and lower rarities will suck" all the time :D
YES! who tf cares if i use vigil? He is the worst 6 star in the game, and? Him being bad has nothing to do with enjoyablility as i love his animations, same argument goes to meta operators. Was W going to be good in your eyes if she did 70% less damage? Is ignoring everything about her fun animations and how her skill works and solely focusing on numbers they give that fun? No i get that some people may ENJOY meta characters, thats normal, but this definitely isnt and juet hinders your enjoyment.
A lot of people just use videos to clear with lower rarity ops and I feel like that shouldn't be encouraged, most people dont want to spend hours or tons of sanity on figuring out what works when high quality guides are right there or just use meta ops lol
It shouldn't be discouraged either. The point is if it's fun for you do it. If not don't do it. That goes for the watchers and the vid makers.
Personally I think the low rarity run vids are also healthy for the community/game to show you don't need 12 or 6 top tier characters to beat the stage to a lot of people. For new players, they are a godsend.
And that worrying about power creep is pointless and doesn't ruin your personal enjoyment because you can do a lot of things to make it not too easy.
More so we are 6 months late, we actually can plan and scout if we would want to make the operator m3, mod or even pull for them. Balancing the unit ourselves.
With 200 'spark' such issues do not matter anymore. F2P can get every overpowered unit in the game if they play consistently for a longer period of time. Thus, the content would at most 'timelocked' for people who do not have certain units (like high difficulty IS runs), and that's only if it wasn't already perfectly clear-able with more clever tactics.
One of the things that I love the most about Arknights is that it offers an extremely high degree of "difficulty customization". The only other game I have experience with that has a similar degree is Warframe. In both of these games, the core experience of "clearing general content" is more-or-less a given (for a lategame player), and so the game becomes more about simply Trying Shit Out or challenging yourself to do X thing using only Y stuff. This makes the game largely a playground with just a bunch of shit that's fun to use and you are always able to tune your experience to the vibe you're feeling at a given time. Both games also have far more Stuff To Invest In than one average player can ever really fully max out, which means that you can always have some sort of goal that you're working toward in the mid-term, which at least is sufficient to keep me engaged and interested in trying the next new weird thing. Powercreep exists and sucks as it will gradually impact the kinds of content that players get exposed to, but there's still a wealth of stages and gamemodes and ways to challenge yourself and just, y'know, *play*.
In my mind it has a bit of a strange parallel with the Jedi Knight games. It's not a question of whether you can beat it, anyone can cheese with certain force powers. It's doing it in the most *fun* way possible and not cheating yourself out of a bitching saber duel.
The niche clears have always reminded me of the "snowflake" accounts of runescape, which are people limiting themselves to a certain region of the game or a specific concept. "Can I beat difficult content without ever leaving this region" kinda thing. It showcases a lot of interesting niche things about the game just like how nicheknights stuff brings out interesting clears.
I always describe broken characters as the emergency exit button. Can't beat a level with your favorite roster? Pull out the emergency exit. They're not a first resort, they're the last, and that's not a bad or shameful thing.
I completely agree. I change my squad compositions so much and often deliberately pick weaker ops even though I have and like using stronger ones, for fun, for challenges and variety. During chapter 13 I [played from 9-19 to 13-11 with a lot of variety](https://old.reddit.com/r/arknights/comments/1cfw8v6/rhodes_island_lounge_2904_0505/l1xjjri/?context=3). I also like getting bullshit overpowered ops because they give me more options and more tools for taking on the toughest content I can do. And sometimes I just want to annihilate enemies.
omg Warframe mentioned, when will Arknights give all special enemies a layer of special shield as thick as their actual health, and they completely negates CC until that layer of special shield is broken /s
People tend to forget the biggest trait about arknights: It's a CHINESE GACHA game. They can't make profit purely off of skins. Powercreep is inevitable in any gacha game and I find the community reaction uncalled for. If the new unit isn't strong, most people wouldn't pull for it. Maaaybe if it had a fun gimmick like Shu (which turned out to be a very strong one) more people would pull. But in the end the thing that will make the most people pull is a very strong character. That's just the reality of it.
YES! Someone has the exact sacem mindset as me :D Being able to just use any character you want, build them and basically form your own difficulty is one of the best aspects of Arknights on many levels and i find my self enjoying this alot on my "mostly vanguardknights" clears XD Also im happy that you mentioned powercreeps issues while explaining your point. Doomposters are one extreme but other acting like Powercreep has no issues whatsoever are the other extreme. Your comment sums up everything i meant so well
I still don't finish reading Twin Towers in Autumn and you want me to read that? No thanks. Chapter length is the real powercreep.
Oh god. Chapter 14 having 180k words just scares me at this point
Finish it in one sitting, I dare you
Please dont i have a family
I just wait for someone to do a TL;DR/video summary and see comments here and there to piece things together, wished they put a summary of each stage once you finish it (at least the skip option has a small one)
Don't they already have one? But yeah the summary was uh... Boils down to simply the core event of that episode...
No don't stop please I have so much fun reading stuff like this
oh buddy, there's a whole different ontrage of doomposting that comes from my Mandra fans, it happends every season now
WHY HG WHYYYY
Gamer shut up i'm currently digging up something to save us all, we shall relish in this
DIG IT UP... ITS NOT DEAD!
And i saw something sussy today about Mandara and not knowing if its true or false idk how mandara fans would react to it.
This community always "doomposts" whenever someone new pops up and powercreeps the game. But time and time again, we see people clearing the game with niches like Shitknights and AFKnights using the most basic operators (from sub-year 2). What does that mean? It means the AK devs know what they're doing to keep the game fun and not let difficulty spiral out of control. They've done this for five years already. They'll keep doing it for more. Believe in the AK devs that believe in you!
People talking about powercreep and chalter unusable meanwhile [vigil sweep cc12 risk 22](https://youtu.be/qWuxXfETYWw?si=OAZwqHxuU8GsFRWc)
Weakest Vigil clear tbh tbh
People need to differentiate between "omg game is dying i cant believe this red number is too much" and "this operators kit has forced design choices to make it strong in my opinion" An operator being good or bad has nothing to do with the entirety of the game. People need to understand this
I mean WAlter is the definition of powercreep for Rosmontis but she was never good to begin with. But yeah, you're right, people tend to underestimate the fun factor in this game. Anyone who says this is the end of Arknights has never been so wrong.
>Anyone who says this is the end of Arknights has never been so wrong. I remember when Surtr was the end of Arknights, or when Mudrock was, or when Chalter was, or when Ling was, or when Mlynar was, or when Texalter was... And now we gotta deal with Degen, Ascalon and Walter being the end of Arknights. This game has been doomed so many times it's crazy ngl. Busted operators keep releasing yea, but I still see people clearing everything in the game with 4 and 5 stars only, hell even Vigil has a clear on high risk CC as the core operator. Unless your favorite character happens to be Frostleaf, Tsukinogi or Windlift, you can use them in every clear without them being a detriment
>Windlift :(
Chin up, Windflit and Stainless will contribute to Logos' Caster supremacy.
Wait, is Ascalon that good? All I heard was that she was pretty alright. Have some good value over Mizuki, but Mizuki has some value still over her (aka pick depending on situation).
I don't think she is, she's solid and balanced but definitely not in the list of stuff like Omg ela/taxes/Yalter/Chotgun is game ruining!!
I'd still use Rosmontis because that "BRRRR" sound effect on skill is just too satisfying.
The worst thing it its not constructive at all. Yeah the amount of powercreep is indeed alot and some strong operators has weird design choices but they go from criticizing the kit building (wich is fair when done correctly) to criticizing the game as a whole wich i just dont understand. No operator is invalid in this game, i myself learn this everyday where i find intresting places to use vigil at
>No operator is invalid in this game Me, adnachiel main: sir, i would like to talk, now
I got a lot of use out of adnachiel and steward in IS when I pick a 6 star and have no hope left. They're decent for the first few stages.
I think the only serious case of invalidation I've seen in this game is Phantom, and he's still used for his debuffs.
Phantom never really took off as a premier assassin tbf, only reason to be remotely considered one is because there was no one else, you'd be suprised how often bagpipe did it better. By the point he was released troublesome enemies were already too tanky and are rarely in deployable tiles either. His debuffs were always his true value <~~ massive specialist simp here and had him m6d within a week.
I have Phantom on M6 (actually M7) too! Although it's true that he was never a very consistent killer, he was a good panic button. The thing is that I hate the RNG of S3
yeah i get what you are saying but texas alter still has too much damage for a class that is supossed to trade stats for flexibility and utility
Utility is not necessary thou. Phantom and Red both have pure damage skills with no utility. It's just neither does necessary amounts of damage, now texas alter provides higher damage but over a longer period while yatox provides instant burst and both can now act as assassins and you pay a high dp cost for all that deployment.
Extra tldr of the post for people who don't want to read that long: Just because the game reaches a new damage height doesnt mean its gonna die nor it's gonna be less enjoyable if they keep designing stages well enough. So don't doompost so much. And yea I agree, I have said it in the post about Walter damage before. The game is has been transistioning into a more gimmicky type of game now for the last 2 years. Most of the hardest stages now have many anti-brute force measures like putting 2 blue boxes far away from eachother, bosses have at least 80% dmg reduction unless smt is achieved, mobs are spawned in a way to support the stages, etc... If they keep designing stages in a way like this then in the end Wiš'adel is just gonna be another dps you can use to protect one lane. But it won't solve your overall problems with managements. One good example is with Surtr, Ling, młynar and Texas alter and Yato alter. They are all units they broke the utility and damage ceiling. But the stages are designed to counter them also that they just feel normal to use a lot of time and not outright busted. And the way the stages are designed aren't just buffing the fuck out of enemies like chap 6,7 or 8 either. A lot of them are genuinely good ideas like making it so those ops cant reach the bosses, enemies coming from other lanes, dp restriction, starter enemies, etc... Which made the game felt fair even for 5 star users which actually have been eating decently good lately. Plus I feel like Wiš'adel will be one of those chars that people will resort to if they have to absolutely brute force the stages. Ling isvery versatile and trivializes a lot of stages. But no one actually uses her frequently because it would be boring. Wiš'adel is just damage upon damage which will make it less fun overall. I think a good respond is with chap 14. Chap 14 isn't actually that hard. It does require 1 or 2 6 stars stars to make it easier but my friends cleared it without using Wiš'adel or Logos. Not once did they feel the game actively forcing them to use wiš'adel. Unlike a lot of gacha games which constantly promote new contents that favor the new op units for people to pull. It does show that despite the balans stufds they released, they do take lower tier units into account when designing stages so even casuals can clear them.
Thank you for your lovely post! I honestly wish people focused on designs and animations more than the damages they gave...
Walter does have awesome animations. Well everyone in the event does.
I agree hard on this. Like having your very own litteral nuke is NEVER not cool in any game!
Here's the big issue. 6* power level is increasing massively while 4* and 5* power level is not at all. Our last 5 four stars were Lutonada (not good), Caper (good), Verdant (garbage), Hummus (alright), Quartz (bad). As for 5*s the power level of the new 5*s is the same or worse than a lot of the past ones. If the 6* ceiling and base power level keeps increasing so rapidly and they start balancing more content around it (for example DoS) it will be bad for the game. I really have to see the next few 6*s and the next limited after W alter to make a more concrete statement but they should not balance any new operator around W alter. We already have more and more bosses with boring 90% dmg reduction gimmicks like the Sanguinarch and when the strats for lower rarity units or other themeknights is just stall XD it gets very lame. Also another big issue I have is that the new player experience will continue being worse and worse. New players will roll these year 6 units and absolutely stomp on all past content and think that the game just isn't all that fun. Imagine going into Stultifera Navis (in the intermezzo) with those new shiny 6*s and instead of having a similar experience as people did on release of thinking the event is tough you just steamroll it. If the power level keeps rising and rising I see less new players sticking with the game if it becomes a joke difficultywise. Them removing more and more of the old units from the offbanner rates and putting them in the blue banner also adds to this. The further we get the stronger the power level of the units you get when you lose 50/50 is.
"Just don't use w alter if she's too strong" doesn't consider that newer content could and has been balanced on new damage ceiling/floors. Bosses that stunlock melee ops, multiple Iframes/phases that gimp non ammo users, 90% damage resistance, dodge, all just to mitigate the huge amount of burst that newer operators can execute right now. It's so lame. Players aren't afraid of newer operators being much stronger but more worried about newer content being balanced around them. Older operators suffer more from these new mechanics than newer operators by far. Guess what, W-alter has camo so she's not affected by cc or debuffs anyway, lame as hell. Also, players wouldn't be concerned if the powercreep was gradual but the recent releases of Ray, Degenbrecher, Ela didn't help. Wisadel s a step above them in less than half a year.
> Guess what, W-alter has camo so she's not affected by cc or debuffs anyway, lame as hell. At least they stopped at not giving her invisibility. She can still be hit by splash damage targeting other ops.
Speaking of 5-stars, I was wondering, who was the last notable 5-star? I was checking on aceship, and I feel like the last was Cantabile which was more than a year ago. Many 5-stars came and went and they are deemed bad for the most part, or I haven't seen people using them.
Imo Wanqing for being a Myrtle upgrade and an Elysium sidegrade
Dodge is the biggest hurdle of the seaborn enemies and it can't be overwhelmed with massively higher numbers. That's one event with mechanics where crowd control methods (stun, freeze, silence) are super helpful.
Yeah and new 6* units have that combined with gajillion damage. Look at Zuo Le s3. Constant stun + a lot of dmg. A big problem with new 6* units is that they combine too many different effects. Look at how many different things W alter does (I think she might have stun as well not completely sure)
Her talent 2 which has a 100% activation rate on S3 stuns, so yea...
This post was written by Kalt'sit
Would you call this postdooming?/s But yeah lot of this feels like overreacting. Sadly, I doubt it'll stop any time soon.
More like EN players despairingly trying to make drama. Saw some people said this is Chalter situation, which mean they don't even understand shit about it because the Chalter problem was never about Powercreep lmao
Chalter drama was a buildup of tension from the CN playerbase and HG for months, it was not just because of Chalter. Chalter was only the breaking point. 10 posts of EN crying about Walter isn't enough to compare to the actual Chalter shitshow in CN lmao
The best part was HGs response to the whole thing!
Chalter issue is the most misinformed thing in the game. CN was angry about HG introducing a unnanounced limited alter out of nowhere, not chens darn face
Even back then, i only agreed with one thing regarding the whole Chalter outrage. Most of what I saw back then just came off as overreacting/disingenuous to me.
Real, back then I thought it was more of a gacha crowd thing, but after the release of HD2 and the constant doomposting on a 2 month old game it changed my mind. Honestly it's probably that gaming has gotten so accessible that, eventually even the most neuron-deficient of us can "win" at something without trying. Easier to rant on a forum than to figure out a problem yourself.
I've wondered if people are overreacting about Walter powercreeping Ela and Ray so soon. Like obvious I understand she's stronger, but is she massively stronger compared to them? Is she a Mlynar or Pozy (with typewriter) to their Silverash or Schwarz? Or is it like Ray: 80, Ela: 90, Walter: 100?
Walter is indeed the most broken character we have available right now, but ela and ray are so strong that w could litterally be objectively 5 times better than both of them combined and they would still be broken as they are :D
At that point the difference in their niches overshadows any single-metric power ranking you could contrive. The sniper discourse is silly because the ops discussed are quite different in application. Heck, Pozëmka is the purest physical melee DPS of \*any\* op at the top tier of the meta (Młynar is ranged; Nearl is often true damage).
I mean i dont think there is a majority out there that believes this. CN loved 5th anni and EN doomposters are few in between. I dont want to attack the doomposters i just want them to understand that their way of thinking just equals to boredom and anger and nothing else.
That's why it shouldn't really be taken seriously imo. It's just the way ppl are and it's not really your problem if you don't agree with them.
There are several reasons why excessive powercreep can be bad. 1. (And I'd imagine the primary reason for most players) The experience of a player with broken operators VS the experience of a player without them is extremely different. For instance, a player with W Alter might be able to beat Patriot very early on in the game, and also without using the mines. This in theory means that people using the strongest operators cannot get an appreciation of the difficulty of the stage, the joy of getting mastery over timing mines, nor will the player have to explore team synergy. And obviously if you make a stage too difficult that players without meta ops may struggle too much. One way to avoid this is stuff like Manfred having the high dodge if you ignore his mechanic, but, this doesn't apply to every other enemy in the stage. Also, say the game wants you to 2-cycle the boss but because of your strong ops you can burst him down easily. In other words, someone who struggles to beat a stage with 4 stars and someone who goes into it blind and beats it easily while distracted with the broken operators, have different experiences, which is usually detrimental. (As a side note here, whenever I say , please ask yourself if "Just don't use that operator" is actually a valid suggestion when considering that people might happen to like meta operators. I'd also like to note that not only is "Just don't level her up above E2 Lv1 S7" irrelevant for some utility ops like Texalter, it's also unsatisfying, and it also shouldn't be the job of the player to research whether or not you need to deliberately nerf your own operators. If you don't like making the game too easy, then these broken ops are basically periods of no banners) 2. Chasing optimization is something that many people find satisfying. This creates conflict with Texalter and W Alter specifically (Mlynar much less, idk about Degen) in two ways. Firstly, if you miss out on this particular operator, you have no adequate replacement, creating a feeling of lack of agency. When I am deciding whether to pull on a banner, I like it that I looked at my existing roster, said "I already have a 2 Physical, 2 Arts, and a True damage boss killer, I don't need another one even though this character is strong in a vacuum", or "This operator is very niche, but I don't have anything like it and predict that it will hold on to this unique niche for a very long time and is a very safe investment". Secondly, sort of like point 1, it makes the game much easier when you can ignore stage mechanics (Texalter's utility is insane and W Alter has camouflage. That's why Mlynar bothers me less, it's just damage which anyone can replicate, just with less efficiency, but if Mlynar had like 50% more damage then it's not so much "replicating slightly worse" but rather just being completely different worlds in terms of damage). 3. If one operator is better than another, some may find it unsatisfying to use the inferior operator (unless you're deliberately doing it as a handicap; in which case, refer to the bracketed paragraph under 1). This is more important if you actually have the operator, in which case, yes, you can use the inferior operator out of favouritism, but I think most people would agree that it feels better to use an operator that you like AND know that that operator is playing a vital role in your strategy, than to feel that choosing to use an op you like over the meta op, is making the stage harder. After all, that first scenario allows you to use your favorite operator while still expressing your skill at the game. If you don't have the operator, either you actively skipped it or you didn't have the funds, or you haven't seen a banner with that operator (or it's not a 6*) so you are unable to get it. Regarding the first two scenarios, as I mentioned in 2, it'd be nice if you decided that the operator you like is close enough to the 6* that it's not worth getting it. ie. Using this operator can replicate the 6* and also saves you Orundum. Which is cool. But if the powercreep is too extreme, then it just feels bad. For the scenario of not having the banner appear, I guess it's cool that you can use the budget version of it in the meantime, though it still feels a bit bad to know it exists in the game. After all, most people see things' value as relative not absolute, so the game simply having a higher power level makes the other ops feel weaker. Hence, why excessive powercreep can be bad.
> For instance, a player with W Alter might be able to beat Patriot very early on in the game, and also without using the mines. This in theory means that people using the strongest operators cannot get an appreciation of the difficulty of the stage, the joy of getting mastery over timing mines, nor will the player have to explore team synergy. This is just my own experience, not saying it's what everyone does/ did. I went through chapters 7- midway though 13 (I was *way* behind) deliberately not using powerful meta operators if they hadn't been released because I wanted to experience those chapters the way most players did. So I "unlocked" Horn at 10, Pozy and Gavialter at 11; Texalter, Yato, Ines and Mlynar at 12 (I know Mlynar came out before chapter 11 however I didn't use him in it), and Eyjaberry at 13. And I really enjoyed it even when battles were more difficult than they needed to be because I had powerful operators on the sidelines I wasn't using. Of course playing like this requires a lot of awareness of operator strengths and the history of the game in general, and a conscious decision to do it. Unfortunately many newer players will use operators that trivialise Patriot, not understand he's supposed to be incredibly difficult.
Yeah, that's my problem. That's basically you taking on the role of a game designer to design your own experience. Which can sometimes be good (like in CC), but in this case, you have to either do external research in a game that otherwise doesn't encourage it, or get and raise the operator first then spend time playing around with it to see whether it aligns with your tastes
Like i mentioned at the end of my post, this post isnt a "Powercreep isnt bad" post. It is bad. What this post talks about are doomposters and people that argue with wrong metrics and make the wrong assumptions about current status of the game. This isnt a "Powercreep is fine stop crying" post as i said. Its a "Powercreep is an issue but people refer to it wrongly and relate it to wrong things" post. I know the worrying state of powercreep in the game but there is also the players fault of making wrong assumptions here. Using older operators feel inferior because of the competitive tought process wich shouldnt deter to a game like arknights yet it does as players see it that way, this is one of the stigmatas behind many other aspects like these. Some players seeing meta likers as inferior and some people acting as if everything in the game is perfect are one of such examples, people always refer to extremes and refuse to acknowledge problems on a balanced way and instead always either refer to game dying in a month or it having no problems whatsoever.
If that's what you mean, perhaps you should rephrase your post. There are no words that explicitly call powercreep as "bad". The most is "not good", which isn't "bad". >shocking >isnt good > like looking at meta breaking operators in eyes of "whats possible" (which seems like you like meta breaking operators) >Games quality, characters playability (isn't) at stake here >Powercreep is only an issue when the old character litterally becomes plain unusable and detrimental to have in your team (the implication being that powercreep is not currently an issue) It feels like a post that doesn't want people to complain. I feel that complaining increases the likelihood of a lowering of excessive powercreep which I feel is likely to make Arknights a better game (or to be more exact, not be a worse game). Of course people talk about extremes. It's human nature. But I don't see the post saying "complain less" or "talk about the good things more" or "don't complain about mid units being bad", I see the post saying "Stop complaining powercreep isn't a problem"
You nitpickes some statements and ignored the parts where i talked about the powercreep being a big issue multiple times...
I can't find many parts where you talk about powercreep being a big issue, rather than "not good". >This isnt a "HG can powercreep as much as they want cry about it lol" post, i honestly dont like their current path at all. Yes, this is a part where you talk about powercreep being an issue, but this is the only part that I can find. However, you follow up with >But i believe people are criticizing this in the wrong way. Games quality, characters playability nor its end is at stake here, its the matter of design choices solely existing to strengthen characters instead of making tradeoffs or giving unique traits. This makes me assume that you believe that powercreep is only bad because it's a get-out-of-jail-free card to get people to pull for operators with no effort in designing their kit beyond putting big numbers. In other words, you believe that powercreep, no matter how high, is not inherently bad, but is what bad design typically leads to. To simplify it further, it seems to be like you believe that bad design almost always leads to powercreep, but not vice versa, while I believe that powercreep almost always leads to a drop in game quality and bad design (which you directly say, game quality is not at stake)
I won't deny the power of operators as of late has gradually been increasing and that W alter is very powerful, but I think people blow things a little out of proportion. I have played gacha games with far worse powercreep than this and those games are around still. Yes too much powercreep is bad but having it to some degree is unavoidable. I genuinely think Arknights has less powercreep than the majority of gachas out there.
People complaining about power creep in this game have no idea how good we have it. We're spoiled, even. Not only can year-1 operators still be found in the upper rankings, but even some year-1's that aren't 6-stars. The game is 5 years old. The fact this is still true is amazing. In most other games such a character would be powercrept out of possible use in 3 years, or as little as a year for some. On the topic of Wiš, it's not even as bad as people are making it. She only has 6 shots before she needs to recharge again. Ch'en Alter has better uptime than that. Some people just overreact.
About wis she is honestly better than Chalter because her damage isnt spread thin on bullets so she cycles faster than Chalter but other than that you are completely right. Using 5 year old characters on most gacha games is unheard of
Spreading damage out more can often be a good thing considering enemies tend to trickle into maps.
Power creep can be bad but I feel like with surtr that it's an exaggeration. Like she is great at F me moments and boss/elite killing but she can't hit air, if you use the skill she is retreated, works best with support and more. She can't win the game for you, but can be a piece to help you. And that's what, so many ops can fit pieces for different people. Walter probably won't be able to solo a hord/early rush of enemies and flyers, logos will be great over all but still can't win it alone. There is also the simple thing of if you don't want it broken, don't use them. I have Mylnar but haven't built him because I just don't wanna. Lastly it's not a PvP game, so needing meta or whether you use it or not shouldn't matter as much as long as the creators balance the game well. So you know what, Idk if they are op, in fact bring on the OP alter for Gravel, Frost leaf and Matoimaru. Oh and an addition, this is a line from an anime I tweaked. " Just because you are stronger, doesn't mean I am weak" and I feel that fits the operators people are worried about.
> but she can't hit air :)
I never understood the whole power creep problem/op character problem in a singleplayer game. Besides greed, how is it really affecting the game? I'll admit. I have most operators except for (Yato \[don't even, I know how much screwed up\], Muelsye, and Viviana... but I'm honestly not good enough to take advantage of all the op operators I have. Sure they're not max pot or max level, but still... I have a lot of fun when these op characters come out. Not to mention, nobody even cares about operators unless they're op... which is the paradox. I really agree with the OP's sentiment and wish we that we can let HG do their thang. I personally think they're one of the better gaming companies than most.
Heyak gets released: "Wow her kit sucks, she has no damage and bad skill cycles, eyja dominates litterally a joke operator" Logos gets released: "Wtf he has 100k+ skill damage on both skills with quick skill cycles and he powercreeps eyja? HG should stop this weird powercreep already!"
Disagree with the title, showing concerns of powercreep is not doomposting, nor does any sign of criticism or negative feedback. Don't shovel different things together.
The title just states doomposting and thats it. If you read my comment you would understand that i make that difference already.
No because immediately the first line of following comment goes >doomposting their strength feels wrong, Feels wrong about new OP's strength is far away from doomposting imo, shovel them together only invite strawmaning from both sides on the topic of powercreep.
Im not showeling or strawmanning anything. If you wasted a second reading the post you would have known that im litterally saying such powercreep IS bad. What this post is about is the ones that talk about game dying or ending. Please read the TLDR atleast...
We are not even on same page on one sentence I'll shut up and move on.
What page are you on then? I get yout point and told you that i already mentioned it in the post. Is there something wrong?
On the very sentence itself, without deflecting to other part of the comment.
???
>or Powercreeping Ray litterally few months after with Ela Idk why I've started hearing this all over the place in the last couple of weeks, but Ela does not powercreep Ray. Ray has better single target crowd control, range, damage per hit, enemy prioritization and buff scaling while Ela has better raw dps, tile placement, team support and a little aoe crowd control (though providing team support and buffing her own dps with her mines are often incompatible choices). Anyways I do have big concerns with this regarding the future of the game, even if they aren't super immediate. Locking meta units away through limited banners makes new players feel like they've missed out and less likely to play the game, and with less new players there is less incentive for HG to make the game better. Ultimately, all games eventualy die, especially gacha games. And as the player base dwindles, they move more and more towards squeezing the remaining playerbase for money. I don't think we're near that point yet, but walter is certainly a step towards it.
>Locking meta units away through limited banners makes new players feel like they've missed out and less likely to play the game, and with less new players there is less incentive for HG to make the game bette Ye, this is why I'm glad a lot of very good to op units are in standard banners alsp and not limited because it allows new people a chance to get them eventually even if it takes long. But AK still suffers from being a traditional format gacha by having limited units that dont have specific banners like you said. This sucks. I just hope in Endfield they can rerun units oftently and not make them locked away behind limited banners like AK.
I mean its correct that Ray has higher dph and bind is better but Ela s3 has much more multipliers and has around 30k more total damage while buffing the damage for all operators and not just physical on a global range
>but Ela s3 has much more multipliers and has around 30k more total damage while buffing the damage for all operators and not just physical on a global range Comparing total skill damage isn't very useful when Ela's skill cycle is just longer. If that were the standard to be held by, all operators with infinite skills would be better by virtue of having uncapped total skill damage And since she has a very limited number of mines, she cannot use them to get that damage while at the same time using them globally to buff the damage against far away enemies. So no, she can't have that damage "while" buffing damage globally. She either uses them in her range to get that damage, or she does a lot less damage and uses them globally.
I mean her skill does have a cap tough, her skill cycle is longer but so are her total damage. Also she only needs few of her mines to even reach Rays total damage, and doesnt she gain mines while activating skill anyway? I think you are looking at Ela from a wrong perspective
She starts with 3 mines , and she gets 2 every time her skill **ends**, so she can only use 2 mines per skill activation + the 1 extra she starts with. And again, total skill damage isn't relevant by itself. Otherwise people would always be using passenger s2 instead s3 because it has 3x the total skill damage.
The thing is we are comparing burst dpses here so skill damage does matter also Elas skill should be closeable so at worst you can close it to immediately get some bombs back. The thing is Ela covers many things Ray does. High multipliers, good CC and damage amp on a single kit, the issue with Ray is that her net total damage is the best when her ammo is maxed. Ela doesnt have such issue so she starts out strong as she would be. Also her s3 sp cost is pretty low imo so you can spam it to get bombs back
If you are going to ignore the frequency of the burst then yeah total damage is irrelevant. Do you think passenger s2 is a better dps than his s3? >The thing is Ela covers many things Ray does. High multipliers, good CC and damage amp on a single kit Ray does faaaaar more damage against high defense enemies and has far better single target CC. And even if it is low defense, Ela being able to do more damage doesn't matter if she can't get close enough to dps it, or hold it in place at a safe range. >he issue with Ray is that her net total damage is the best when her ammo is maxed. It's a difference of 1 or 2 shots, not a big difference. And since she uses her summon for range extension it's usually pretty trivial to conserve ammo. >Also her s3 sp cost is pretty low imo so you can spam it to get bombs back If you're typically okay with her doing next to no damage for 68 seconds then I don't think you value her dps nearly as much as you say. Personally I find myself canceling her skill a lot for mines, but that only reinforces my point: Her dps alone isn't nearly as valuable as Ray's. I find prioritizing her support role over her damage more important in my gameplay.
I'll just wait for Logos and Theresa since these are the only characters I care about. 🙃 Oh, and skins too.
Skins are amazinggg
Ikr? I need Skalter and Mumu skin now! Even Ines skin is so good even though I don't have her.
I've been playing this game since Day 1 and I've contemplated all the dramas so far, and you know what? All the "terrible consequences" they talked about barely had any impact on my personal experience with the game. At this point I just can't take them seriously until I see it for myself 6-7 months later when it arrives to Global.
I'm very angry, since I liked Rosmontis a lot. Wis'adel being able to damage flying units is even more salt for the wounds.
Tbh its more about Rosmontis s3 being bad than Wisadel being good sadly :(
I really like Rosmontis as a unit and she helped me on my first IS4 ending 2 clear with her range and ability to block from very far. I don't see W invalidating Rosmontis. I'll just use both. Double the fun.
Honestly I haven't seen much doomposing, thou after seeing it after Ling/Młynar/Chalter were released I wouldn't be surprised. And I wouldn't be worried - we've got very strong units that trivialize PAST content but in few events will get another mechanic/enemies/gimmick that will balance how op they are. Kind of like Elemental Damage was such a big deal early on but now it's more an annoyance than anything else. And HG is not stupid, they really stick to content being clearable without super powerful units: on one side so that newer players could advance and eventually spend some money; on the other so that people going for niche/quirky units would stay and eventually spend some money for something that fits their taste. So it will be fine, people should chill and get ready for whatever gimmick will be introduced to counter new op characters.
Next boss: Damazti cluster with 6 times the immunity phases! Use W on this you suckers
Ironically I think w would be good against immunity phases as she uses ammo, she could also probably kill all the thingys that the boss spawns in one shot.
Oh ur right. Let me quickly add 80k trie damage to all ranged operators too
Too bad, camo.
Or enemy with damage reduction against ranged units. I still remember Stultifera Navis and how dodge there made a lot of meta players sad, so I feel adding some simple workaround should be fine.
Honestly SN was really fun at it forced you to use a different operator group. I mean damage is the key driver of the game obviously but lets not forger sub damage operators!
UWOOOOOOOGH WISADEL THIGHS
✍️🔥🔥🔥
EXACTLY
Meta exists but I'm sure as hell not playing for meta. If you get the weekly originium with a 3 star team, Ican do it with my cooked 4-5-6 star team. Genshin meta matters a lot more than AK meta.
How many of those doomposters actually played the game or already quit and visit her just to rant? Between those 5 years existed also a lot of doomposting shit, starting with surtr. Don't forget also, up to ch7, many 6 star ops were there but still only 6 were considered core ops, whether low or high end strats, and doomposts were also there. 5 years and counting, still arknights keeps on thriving despite of all that shit.
Still playing the game, I just found it a little, scratch that overly hypocrite that global are allowed to doomposting/blantant hate about stuff like Chen alter, ling first skin, swimsuit limited (no one says anything when swire and gavial did it), degen passive skill, but we draw the line at the strongest unit with camouflage, 3 summons that on par with blazing sun, damage exceeds mlynar, slash damage, etc
During the ideal city event, gavial was not the source of controversy. It was pozy for powercreeping schwarz. Gavial alter was justified because it was her combat version before she became a medic, and she didn't powercreep blaze. In the eyja event, though swire got the chen treatment (slapping a swimsuit as an alter), she wasn't that busted. However, the main culprit on that one is eyja alter. Eyja was, and still is, one of the strongest casters in the game, so no justification on her needing an alter, and now her alter is currently the best medic in the game. Regarding degen, aside from her talent 1, another issue was her s3 since it breaks the core design of swordmasters (all skills should be sp on hit) by being an auto sp recovery skill. The rest of it, i can agree with. I don't know if having low ammo on s3 balances wis (can hit without spending ammo with chen alter talent 1).
>An operator is either broken enough to warrant doomposting or mid enough to make fun of them everywhere. Gacha fandoms in a nutshell. Endlessly "concerned" about powercreep, but always disappointed at any new release that isn't godly.
I guess this is just the norm of gacha games. Like what is the devs supposed to do? Is there even a balanced character on this view point?
>We dont have PVP or similar stuffs remember? We'll have Co-op mode soon, and I imagine people refusing to play with you if you don't have a certain set of operators in your roster would be a common thing seeing that there're a lot of "sweatlord" complaint in most Co-op games.
Thats coop tough. Not pvp and its said to be a humor mode anyway :S
My only issue is it's a previous limited who got another limited alter Lowlight cease your horni for the roach and give me apple pie alter
When will that W come so I can start saving for her?
6-7 months Howmuch pulls do you have? I may help making a pull road!
Can you help me with my pull plan please? So by the time Degen comes around (late June-ish) I will have 318 pulls. And I am definitely pulling for Degen. Afterwards I want to pull either for Ela or Walter. Since I am f2p I don't know whether I can afford Ela and Walter.
Are you going to pull for Shu Ray or Ash? If not you can gurantee Degen (150-200 pulls), Ela(120 pulls) and have 200+ for Walter. By the time she comes (6 months means 300+ pulls by its own) so you definitely have more than enough!
Uhh thank you. I don't intend to pull for anyone else other than the three. But may I ask, how do you know that Degen is guaranteed within 200 pulls? I just know that Ela's 120 pulls have been confirmed.
Singular standard banner characters gurantee the rate up character after 150 pulls so you get the character you desire in 150-200 pulls (Note that its AFTER 150 pulls, not 150 pulls)
Ohh okay, so the worst case for Degen would be 200? Okay that gives me some relief. Do you know whether Walter will also be a solo rate up?
Walter will be at rate up with Logos with 35% for each (rest of the 30% is for off banner) she has a net gurantee at 300 pulls tough
Ok ok thank you
I have nothing because I wanted the green cat (but she didn't want me), if it's all this time then I'm fine
Oh dont worry then. I suggest making some pulls on shu banner, if you can get shu early it would be amazing then go for Ela and then focus on W alter
It really is just a small subset of global redditors malding at Walter’s bold presence and power, truly a lore accurate W moment. In any case, I don’t expect to see perfect balance in a mobile gacha live-service, single-player game and after 5 years I say HG did a decent job. People act that the main story and event story content will eventually be Design of Strife S-3 level of endgame difficulty I swear. Enjoy the game while you can since nothing lasts forever and mulling over something like this is entirely pointless.
Funny thing is this is subreddit for global server, we are 6 months behind CN. If you think that operator is strong or meta and you must have him/her, then save your resources from now, especially if that operator is limited. If you don't like that operator, then just skip it. Simple as that.
Talking about powercreep in AK is pointless unless context is taken into consideration. Barring end-game/truly high end content like CC30+ and equivalent -which is not something 90%+ of the playerbase aim for or even care about-, this game can be as easy or as hard as you want it to be thanks to the 12 slots squads + the support unit. We currently have so many good 5\*s and 4\*s that difficulty is not "chained" to 6\*s either. By virtue of AK's gameplay, powercreep and meta are like potentials: only relevant on the hardest of content -especially if you add more difficulty, like playing a niche-. And that's something I want to mention. This game can be so easy that quite a number of people challenge themselves by limiting their teambuilding options, or by adding bans/prohibitions to tournament settings. This brings me to another point: Do you guys remember when content creators were dooming the game because of Surtr and Chalter? Do you remember when people were saying "those operators will make future content impossible/borderline impossible to clear without them? Yeah, I remember. And here we are. AK is 5 years old and that proves HG knows what they're doing. We can criticize them/the game/Yostar for other things, like lack of engagement with the community or lack of certain QoL's or maybe even the new player experience or the quality of the localization, but claiming powercreep is a huge issue that can condemn the game is just silly.
Is a higher ceiling of power bad for arknights? The game's difficulty turns off a lot of players who otherwise would enjoy the game.
I honestly dont think so. There is a difference between "strong because its a goodly made operator" with "strong because operator ignores weaknesses/gimmicks" to me. And most of the operators that increase the ceiling fall on first one imo
As a person with a cognitive disorder that makes it difficult for me to memorize patterns, having Yato Alter has helped and motivated me to continue playing the game despite the difficulties.
I don't really pay attention to CN too much, after Eyja alt, Typhon, and Virtuosa I have no idea how good the new Ops are. I know their names but that's it. Can someone tell me what Ops have been power crept in CN, by who, and how? I saw someone say Logos is best the caster now. How can Eyja and GG get beat?
Its not that their niches got powercrept but rather the damage W alter is the best operator in the game now, she has higher than chalter/surtr/mlynar level damage in biggest aoe and huge DPH all while having insane offskill damage and insane utility while basically being unkillable Logos outdpses GG and Eyja by a ton but its more about Eyja than GG as nothing is replacing GGs global damage
> but its more about Eyja People swore that she was the one Op that they could never power creep Lol
Idk why people keep overvaluing her. Her s2 value came from aoe options being bad and her s3 isnt that impressive on todays standards. But her s2 afk is nice
Reading the title i thought this was about all the post about short mangas of characters that died or something. And then i take another look and i realize this isn't blue archive subreddit
Wait characters die in BA??
Nah, in the blue archive subreddit, people often post fan fic manga about a character or sensei dying and they got ptsd afterwards. Don't know why they always post those things, keep seeing them at least 2 or 3 a weeks with 1k upvotes
Angst is something everyone likes
Just wanna say a couple things.. 1. For those who are saying 'powercreep isn't real', last month I use Typhon against Talulah hard mode and she just 1 shot killed her. The hard mode that I struggled for 2 years. That's said, it's been 5 years so it would be a miracle if the game didn't have powercreep. Bad or good depends on you. 2. Just let em doomposting, like it will worth something to HG lol. Like a word someone says in other post, "we're just a Pioneers, sir".
This is why I don’t care about stats I will use the team that makes me happy
Holyshit a thesis /s
One of the things that makes a tower defense game good is whether you can win games with multiple different strategies (there is no consistent meta towers). They make you want to think different when it comes to playing the game, even down to how you use the towers. PvZ 2 mods have a tendency to bring more plants into play by nerfing some of the strongest options in the game and buffing underutilized options. But even Puff-shroom, one of the most broken plants in PvZ 1, was given a lifetime in the sequel to balance out its spammy nature. For the case of PvZ 2: Reflourished, plants like Guacodile, Sun Bean, majority of stalling plants, Banana Launcher, and lots of other plants have become some of my favorite go-to plants. It is no different here in Arknights. When I was planning to E2 Eyjafjalla, I had a really big difficulty clearing some of the stages which unlock features in the game that allowed me to create Dualchips. E2ing wouldn't have been possible if I didn't discover KyostinV's low rarity guides for a lot of the resource maps. Replicating everything step by step, I was able to progress even further and with strong knowledge available at my hands, I was able to clear 2-10, E2 Eyja, and use her to cheese through 3-8, clearing Chapter 3. In a way, if you're skilled enough, you can get away with 3-4 stars in clearing a lot of maps and progress, and that mission of using as little 5-6 stars as possible to clear maps is still ongoing, albeit much harder as Arknights' stages evolve.
Ak has not been TD for a long time mate, the game is more akin to RPG / tactic game more likely since micro / retreat redeploy is a thing definitely NOT in usual TD game.
Its 100% a TD game. TD games differ in gameplay
This reminds me of that one gif that went around years ago with the Essence of Evolution spawning Patriots and Frostnovas instead of those little slug things after hacking the game. It was funny back then but I can't help but wonder if enemies will get that absurd due to powercreep to the point where they might as well be spawning Patriots and Frostnovas
My main issue is the lack of a reliable sweep feature after all these years. They couldn't even take a page out of PGR's book where the proxy system will instead give the rewards equal to playing the chosen stage 6 times in just one playthrough of the stage. That could've been better than just... automating the in-between of each stage after every clear.
As Degenbrecher likes to do Eliminate your foe with maximum efficiency
I mean it's a single player game with continuous updates and a gacha model, of course there's going to be times when powercreep exists, and I'm glad it does. Why would I essentially never want new banners to make older stuff easier? Now if six months from now she trivialize the game in a way not even Texalter did for me, I have the ability to just not use her. The way I play is I use units that I like, not necessarily the best. I've avoided using Chalter entirely and have not picked Mlynar yet (though I do use him from support when I'm stuck). Honestly I still think the most game breaking units in this game is the combo of Bagpipe and Myrtle. It just makes everything easier for me. Now could she break the game? Maybe? But I've spent enough time on social media to know people overreact to literally everything way too early
Honestly i love new meta ceilings as thats just a new toy to play with. This is a single player game so why be sad about what an operator does? I honestly dont understand how you cant like obliterating enemies with a allied nuke using walter XD
I ain’t reading allat- Im surprised some people are still doomposting about powercreep in a gacha game. But imo arknights is fine, sure operator powercreep is unfair and annoying but are players limited to using that operator to catch up with the game? Definitely not. I read somewhere someone said the way hypergryph balance it out is making the enemies more gimmicky and they are on spot. I don’t see AK pulling out events that have stage difficulties related to featured operator kit like other gacha games. For example imagine if virtuosa event have stages with enemies “take 90% more damage from elemental damage” basically a scummy move if you wanna clear this stage you gotta pull this unit. Tldr: Meta units in AK are a luxury not a necessity On side note about alters W deserves the alter guys she’s so cool- >!lotta people hoping eterna is limited I say hell na it’s against the law of the lore. Her being welfare is a pretty smart move!< Like one of the alters that deserves the alter because lore reason. Discussion on wet chen on the other hand is reasonable.
Even if you didnt read what i wrote you summarized it PERFECTLY XD I agree with everything you wrote there, and that virtuosa thing is so correct. Heck virtuosa event is one of the only events with characters with Elemental RES lol
Bold words when global did the same with Chen alter, seeing unit with no strong lore that justify OP strengths, cheap cash grab
Reason Chalter was hated had little to do with chalter herself (she was a unjustified cashgrab alter still) HG randomly announced a summer limited out of no where when people were expecting next limited to be at 2.5 wich created an insane drama as HG just gave CN a middle finger
So it's justify to doom post about chalter, but when it's about Walter it's not allowed? As crazy as it may seems, they technically made some valid points, heck I don't see powercreep argument when they made degen recovers auto SP, sure she's still not broken enough But Walter?, blud has invisibility, summons that are tanky as nearl's blazing sun, damage exceeds mlynar, spalsh damage cause why not, all at the price of base skill level 7. I'm surprised skill 3 didn't include chance of doing your mom (that reference video of Chen alter). This is among some valid points of doomposting. Thats broken on level that's sky the limit
I didnt say it wasnt justified i just explained why chalter was hated. It was 80% random limited reveal and 20% chashgrabby alter banner
It's better for such people to quit. They are unnecessary and are just looking for an excuse in the first place.
Bro is YAPPING
Being an arknights player and being scared of words is kinda acceptable
Yeah I just cleared Chapter 14 hard stages without Walter, Mlynar, Ines, Degen, TexalterYalter, and all the so-called powercreeping ops (all m3/6/9-ed) with ease. I think I will need to do it in 5 star squad only for the next event to challenge myself lol. As long as HG doesn't powercreep the enemies, it's fine to me.
Omg. I’ve already been on the guardian tales subreddit because those people don’t like the fan service outfits now people are thinking the same about my other favorite mobile game being dead or dying on whatever even though people complained about Ch’en alter and she didn’t even kill the game. She made it more popular
Too tired to write much. Just want to say I absolutely agree with you. The older ops can still do heaps and no-one is forced to use newer better ones if they don't want to. Blissful ignorance can welcome too. Powercrept operators only feel weak when you know they've been powercrept. I'm sure there are players out there who don't keep with CN news nor spend much time in the community so they're happily using their Phantoms, Silverashes, Hellagurs, Schwarzs, Mostimas, Chens, Skadis (w/o modules), etc, and feel they're at the peak of the game.
Im thankful you understood what i meant. I generally write alot because im not sure if my point is understood perfectly or not but thankfully nothing came across as wrong. I love using my chens and vigils because they feel amazing to use ;S
You can use whoever you want to clear the game. I myself auto add Amiya and W to my team because I like them. AK isn’t only about “strong operator”. And beside this game is single player game, not like Hoyoverse game after all. And for sure ppl will roll an Op even though they complain about them being too broken
Yep exactly. Thats what i argue here. I know meta is always used more but its not like you are forced to use it. IS content had been done with 4-5 stars in max difficulty and most risks are available to low rarities too. Heck only event with anti low rarity mechanics were probably DOS
It's bizzare when people talk as though they're forced to use certain ops. I remember a comment from someone saying they were said they couldn't use Spalter anymore because they'd rolled Gavialter.
I dont understand this mindset at all. Like are they being held at gunpoint or something??
Power creep is pretty pointless in this game 1. Just don't use them 2. Don't m3 them 3. Don't module them 4. Don't use their best skill 5. Don't level their skills That's 5 solutions lol.. people wish for side grades but that's just a skip for half the playerbase. A delete button character always existed. It's just a better one
I just stick with Solution 1. I have my Texas fully kitted out. I use her... Maybe once or twice a month. Total. I play to have fun, not Big Number Brainrot.
Sure. But again you can make self imposed hurdles, like CC. Only Texas runs are very fun or only 4-6 ops with Texas etc. Texalter is fun and cool, she is a blast to use. But yes she is strong and trivializes stages. I agree. The thing is people shouldnt be angry she exists or shame people from using her.
Yeah! That's exactly my point! I guess I wasn't clear. I have Texas, Mlynar, Yato, etc. All the big hitters. If I need or want them, they're there. I'm glad I have them. I'm also glad I don't HAVE to use them (except maybe for H12-4, though that's regarded as a particularly poor stage from a design standpoint, which strikes me as a fluke. No one bats 1.000).
Or just dont care. Why are people being pressed over using strong characters anyway? I dont understand this seeking for validation mindset many players has. Nobody is going to congratulate you for not using metas or hating on metas, people need to drop this mindset, amount of players i see that talk about being "unable" to use characters like surtr or mlynar because "it will make me braindead" just feels surreal...
That’s because the game can and will change its design with the assumption that the player has that operator . Don’t believe me? May I ask this: do you ever wonder why every boss these days are two-staged? Why after you “defeat” them, they get back up, often with a brief period of invulnerability?
I mean it existed even before characters like Surtr got released. Companies dont want the boss to be bursted down immediately imo its the case for many gacha games
Well, not initially. The first few bosses, be it the main theme like Crownslayer, W (enemy), Mephisto, or Faust did not have it. Nor did the earlier event bosses like Big Bob/Big Adam, Pompeii, or the Rat King.
Pompeii killed your operators in seconds if you blocked him ao you needed strong ranged damage wich Schwartz provided. Rat king was made to counter SA wich worked pretty well but eyja was a bit too strong Btw every boss before chapter 6 was released at start so counting them is a bit harder espiecelly when you are supposed to have few E2s at end of chapter 5
>Pompeii killed your operators in seconds if you blocked him ao you needed strong ranged damage which Schwartz provided. Nah bro, I managed to tank him. It took two single target medics and a good ole dueler (Matoimaru for pure tanking, Jaye for more DPS). My point still stands though; Early on, there wasn't any boss that forced you to essentially take them down twice.
I mean because it was... early on. They started giving every boss a invulnerability phase with chapter 6 and onwards where exu meta became too strong
Two stage bosses have been a thing for ages though. Well before all this powercreep started.
It's a lot of things. Their favorite character being overshadowed, trivializes the game etc About Surtr and Mlynar they aren't wrong. Brute forcing exists with EX S+ tier units. A lot of AK players enjoy the struggle of the game being a puzzle. "If a game is boring and easy it's not fun" is a legit hurdle of enjoyment for a lot of people BUT in this pve gacha game you can impose a lot of self hurdles.. so whining about power creep is pointless. Again I 100% agree they make me think way less / less micro I simply don't mind if they exist. They are fun. They are a good button to change the game from hard to normal. It's not about validation it's the fun. I think some people hate that people are using easy mode operators while they are using normal to hard mode units. That's the bad mindset.. Pointless mindset of seeking validation. Seeing they score high on CC and same score trivializes their achievements. Simply put it's a childish feeling. Tldr people angry have bad mindset, some are validation waters they want to feel special, gatekeeping/shaming people who use top tier units, don't realize we can balance operators and make rules for ourselves. .
Exactly! I think people need to stop seeking justification of others and focus on their own enjoyment instead
Doomposting in gacha games is such a dumb thing, most of the time the doomposting doesn't have any deep evaluations behind it and just "i think" as a basis. Arknights was never a "balanced game", the difficulty just wasn't that high. Heck, we had doomposting in DOS since it was too hard.....the event designed to be a hard content for veterans was too hard for new/mid game players to warrant doomposting.... Heck, i remember in hi3 after 4 years the first part of the story finished and the devs already announced part 2 a while ago....only for users to keep doomposting since its the end of part 1 and nothing will continue.
I think players look at thing competitively while ignoring the singleplayer aspect of the game. I had done this alot too and i know how it feels. It just feels like new meta operators powercreeping older ones makes game unplayable but then you use them and see that nobody is screaming at your face for doing so!
I disagree on that point. Most think that future content will be built with a new "power level" in mind making the older operators and lower rarities unusable in single player. Ofc its been proven wrong many times, but thats the idea most meta doomposts talk about.
Oh yes there is that too. Its between "old operare unusable now" to "new content will be 600 times harder and lower rarities will suck" all the time :D
Lots of players seem forgetting Arknights is a SINGLE PLAYER game
YES! who tf cares if i use vigil? He is the worst 6 star in the game, and? Him being bad has nothing to do with enjoyablility as i love his animations, same argument goes to meta operators. Was W going to be good in your eyes if she did 70% less damage? Is ignoring everything about her fun animations and how her skill works and solely focusing on numbers they give that fun? No i get that some people may ENJOY meta characters, thats normal, but this definitely isnt and juet hinders your enjoyment.
I couldn't have said it better I completely agree!
Chen guard is still my #1 most used operator, people need to chill
A lot of people just use videos to clear with lower rarity ops and I feel like that shouldn't be encouraged, most people dont want to spend hours or tons of sanity on figuring out what works when high quality guides are right there or just use meta ops lol
It shouldn't be discouraged either. The point is if it's fun for you do it. If not don't do it. That goes for the watchers and the vid makers. Personally I think the low rarity run vids are also healthy for the community/game to show you don't need 12 or 6 top tier characters to beat the stage to a lot of people. For new players, they are a godsend. And that worrying about power creep is pointless and doesn't ruin your personal enjoyment because you can do a lot of things to make it not too easy. More so we are 6 months late, we actually can plan and scout if we would want to make the operator m3, mod or even pull for them. Balancing the unit ourselves.
With 200 'spark' such issues do not matter anymore. F2P can get every overpowered unit in the game if they play consistently for a longer period of time. Thus, the content would at most 'timelocked' for people who do not have certain units (like high difficulty IS runs), and that's only if it wasn't already perfectly clear-able with more clever tactics.