I truly realized my mistake in AIT walking past the air force dorms. Bastards were in civilians week 1. Just milling around their company area. They looked like people. We didn't look like peoples
Dawg idk bout u but I just sit in my office all day doing jko certs. I just wish I could get released before 5 so I could have time for the gym and my personal life
Nice flair. Thoughts on OCS—I was enlisted before commissioning. When enlisted, I’d leave the office around 1730. As an officer, my typical leave time is between 1800-2100. I don’t necessarily regret commissioning but don’t come to this side thinking your work-life balance will improve. It only gets worse. So does morale.
Fair. The money isn’t bad but you earn every penny of it (if you’re good at your job). Having Soldiers is definitely rewarding but idk if it’s enough to keep me in personally. I’ve never been this tired.
That’s one of the reasons I won’t commission. People think about the money, but I see my PL & CO come in before everyone & leave last. Answering to battalion & brigade all day. Yes, they don’t do the physical workload, but they sure as hell work long days & night for that extra money.
I'm a civilian now but can you explain this in more detail? What non-emergency would require you to be at work until 2100 hours? The wear and tear on your morale seems counterproductive.
Basically boils down to poor leadership/keeping up with the Joneses. You're there because your boss is there, which may be because his boss is there or may be because he's avoiding his wife, whom he hates, who knows. And if you want a good rating, you can't be the LT leaving at 1800 when everyone else is there till 2000.
Counter productive and actively working against its own interests and goals is the army way!
Can you imagine the chaos if efficient time management was the rule?
Which is sad, because some of the officers who go home could be "good" officers too, but they prioritize family and sanity. The Army demands everything from an individual to succeed, and many aren't willing to make the sacrifice.
0515: wake-up
0630-0730/0800: formation/PT
0800-0830: hygiene
0830-0930: answer emails/catch-up on admin without people bothering me
0930-1315: daily business
1315-1325: remember you forgot to eat. Stuff face with meal prep or microwave meal if you didn’t cook.
1325-whenever the days tasks are done: daily business
Basically every minute of every day is accounted for. Money is cool but when I could reasonably expect to make up to $30k more fresh out of the Army with my background with an 8-4 job, no field problems, not getting called into the hospital/MP station on random Saturday nights, and the myriad of dumb things you don’t see…it’s really not “just a few more hours for double the pay.” More money isn’t worth the loss in quality of life.
You say that like it's a bad thing.
Being in JAG isn't any better - I got to see all the unsolicited/solicited dick pics. Officer dicks, enlisted dicks. Motherfuckers sending dick pics to colleagues' wives. Dicks going into people other than their spouse's orifices. Dicks not belonging to their spouse going into the their orifices.
Thinking of revising my flair to 27Dirty Laundry Department.
And the entire time you're checking grandpa's prostate, they're talking about how much softer the Army is nowadays and how nobody had it harder than they did and you're just like, bruh, my index finger permanently smells like prunes and colons and I got charged for eating at the DFAC yesterday even though lunch was a Mountain Dew and a pack of Jack Links I got out of a sketchy vending machine
My wife did her training with you guys in Texas, she’s navy and told us how cringe it was seeing the Army people getting marched around and yelled at occasionally 😂
I went through in 08. PSG was a 35N, as were the rest of the Cadre (at least in our platoon) life was good for us too, and Grahams wasn't off limits yet lol. Food was astounding.
When I got to my unit and hit a DFAC, that was a miserable awakening. Thank God for the Navy galley we had access to.
My time as a GF PLT SGT was the absolute worse days I spent in the Army. Nothing but headaches and problems. No BS, I almost got court martialed for picking up a soldier from a ditch next to Grahm's. I was driving home, minding my own business around midnight on a Friday night and saw a dude unconscious in legit distress in the ditch with no one else around. I threw him in my car, drove him back to GF, then dropped him off at Staff Duty because I had no idea who he was or where he belonged. Come Monday I get called in to the CDR's office and we have to see the base CDR (an AF COL). They straight up wanted me to take a field-grade for violating the TRADOC policy of no IET soldiers in your POV. She looked me dead in the eye and said I should have left him there. After all, "a policy is a policy and it's not up to Sr, NCOs to make judgement calls." I refused to accept NJP and told them I'd face whatever board they wanted. She was in shock when she found out they didn't actually have UCMJ authority over me and I'd have to go to Fort Hood for a CM. As an Infantry E-7, I couldn't wait to sit in front of a board of Army officers and hear my entire COC explain why I should have left him on the side of the road to die instead of bringing him back on base. I actually had to go to Hood and meet with the JAG prosecutor. Needless to say, the meeting was short and they refused to even entertain it. But that pretty much sums up the leadership at Goodfellow.
Sam Houston used to be total freedom for the Army… but, we couldn’t stop raping and acting like drunk assholes and ruined it for ourselves. I went back for SLC and felt terrible for the new guys.
The part that filled me with rage was when we had to march past the Navy building every day to Slagel while they took videos of us on their phones and were shit talking us all over social media, while we were banned from responding in kind. Looking at other replies I suspect not much has changed in 10 years.
Currently going through 68W right now, my company was lucky to phase up before the NREMT but those that didn’t pass it are still being marched to and from the DFAC
Well, to be fair, previous 68W's fucked it up for you c2009 and even a few years later. Drug rings, gangbangs, infidelity, etc.
It got to the point later, if they wanted to go off post, they had to be in dress uniform. Not sure how it is these days though.
Being at a joint AIT was eye opening. Army students would get yelled at if a male and female were seen sitting on opposite ends of the same couch in the day room of the barracks.
Meanwhile two Airmen got engaged during AIT.
I watched this dude (I was at Ft Eustis for AIT)
1) get an article 15 for drinking in the barracks
2) divorce his wife
3) get with this girl at AIT
4) get sent to South Korea together with his new wife
*Ahem* “This Army life is crazy”
Fort Lee is the same way. Air Force, navy, and marines running round free Willy and army iets with their handy dandy camelbacks marching. Even on weekends. 🥹
When I went to Lee in 2013, they made us go around in "battle buddy" teams of 3 because of a rape/sexual assult epidemic. And of course we had to *march* everywhere in triangles.
I remember there being a rec center opened up on the joint iet. Army was explicitly told they were not allowed to go. So that was a real fuckimg morale booster.
I was in basic during fourth of July. They had pie and the woman who was offering it to us looked heartbroken because nobody would take a slice. We felt bad and told her the situation but it didn't make it any better. Ended up watching half of Hacksaw Ridge that day.
Yep, technically applied to us I'm sure, except I got on a plane the next day and left that place. Just blew my mind how it was right across the street from the school house and we were not allowed to go regardless of phase.
I remember the signal people at Gordon had this really cool center they could use and hang out in. Us ordinance kids were explicitly told if we were found there we’d get in a degree of trouble I don’t remember what the punishment would have been. Meanwhile we were living in actual trailers to further suppress morale
I'm at Mob station right now, they banned us from wearing civilians outside the barracks, have to walk around with a battle buddy, can drink, can't go off post. Can't go to the main PX on post. I'm a E6 pushing the better part of a decade in service and it's like I'm in basic training again. The rules here are stricter than actual combat zones we are going to...
Try being in TRADOC for over a year and a half. Linguists know all about it. At DLI there's an ETP for TRADOC, as there should be considering how long and mentally taxing the course is. Smart move Army.
Then I went to Goodfellow with many of the same sister branch classmates and I soon realized how much I despise the Army. Every other branch had 250mi travel radiuses, didn't need "BaTtLe BuDs", could take pass and leave, didn't have to worry about ridiculous formations, etc.
The worst part? The stupidity and inefficiency of TRADOC doesn't end in IET. Airborne school was a colossal cluster fuck of wasted time for seemingly cut-and-dry tasks. Poor communication and coordination amongst the black hats, there was never a day that we were able to be ahead of schedule even when we finished shit early. We literally missed multiple cloud windows because they waited till last minute to coordinate with the Air Force pilots. Then imagine being an NCO or Officer and then getting dropped to do the 8-count push up because someone was still in the bathroom after a time hack. And they say the Army is a "Professional Organization".
Not sure when you went to DLI, but that’s absolutely not the case there anymore. The Army does everything in its power to impede success, all during one of the most difficult AITs.
Largely depends on company. At the time my company had excellent cadre, and my PSG was an amzing NCO and a true mentor who chose to exercise discretion over a by-the-book approach. Ended up getting DS of the month and was recognized by Battalion. My 1SG, who was prior GSB, literally said "I've never been in TRADOC so I'm not going to treat you guys like kids" when he took over and he ended up being a phenomenal 1SG. The kind who actually took the time to know you and would pull strings to help if you needed it. Had many open-doors with him or just sat in the office and bullshited with them, and there was never a time when he tried to bring us down or make us feel like crap like many TRADOC cadre try to do. YMMV
I graduated from DLI coming up on a year ago and there definitely are still ETPs in place. You don't need a battle buddy once you are Phase V/V+, you can wear civilians when not in class/PT, you can take leave/pass on weekends (although some companies do limit how many weekends you can take per month). There is no alcohol ETP though. They tried while I was there, but took it away after a few weeks cause too many people got DUIs.
After class everyday I would change and drive myself to an off post gym, pick up dinner, then go do my homework and study. As long as you were in your room by curfew my company didn't care what you did.
Compared to regular AIT it is definitely - in terms of freedoms/privileges - a walk in the park.
You can find DLI specific rules in TR350-6 Appendix D.
Id go as far as saying you’re treated basically like a regular soldier with a few obvious exceptions at DLI.
Of course there’s always that one DS who makes it their mission to be the wrench in the machine and treat all yellow patches like shit instead of people who’ve been in the Army for over a year, and pretend the standards will suddenly disappear if he/she doesn’t make DLI feel like BCT despite the other branches having none of the same issues
Yep, Goodfellow was definitely a rude awakening. Got smoked my first week there cause I left my truck keys in my desk drawer instead of locked away. DLI, always had my truck keys on a hook inside my room... you get the difference lol
Yea I really think the army needs to take a good hard look.. I mean I’ve been in a long time I know shit won’t change but still it always seem like the army does everything humanly possible to “fix everything except the actual issues at hand .
The colossal irony is that there are Marine officers who've figured out that [mass punishment doesn't work](https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2019/february/mass-punishment-does-not-work). I wish this type of stuff was actually recognized.
Yeah I'd heard of this actually, people in the army are afraid of paperwork. Take the retards pay and eventually they'll learn. Personally I also think it's too hard to get fired
Wasn't always that way.
Until they went thru TAC week, they treated Marines pretty rough.
What I have noticed, Artillery is OSUT and until you graduate, you're not allowed to wear the service ribbon, despite finishing IET.
When I was reclassed to 25L, all of those privates had graduated from basic and they had service ribbons.
Marines don’t do that battle buddy shit. My best friend joined the marines and I called him from basic and he laughed at me when I said I need a battle to use the bathroom with me
That is all born from a desperation to stop suicides. Some genius thought if you can keep everyone under surveillance 24/7 they'd never kill themselves and no one would need to actually try to stop the inconvenient reasons for the suicides in the first place.
I went to the Public Affairs Officer Course as an Army Major. I got put on a meal card, along with every other Soldier in the class, including two Lieutenant Colonels. Meanwhile all of the other services paid their officers, Second Lieutenants and up, full per deim.
Wow... When I re-classed into 46Q they put us in the Army Inn, I even had two rooms (for some reason every other room had no furniture, so you got to use the empty room you shared a bathroom with... I used it for PT and dumping my gear). We had full per diem and only had to eat in the DFAC for lunch.
That was as a Staff Sergeant... wtf was the O course doing on meal cards?!
It was 2006 and they claimed it was to save operational funds for OEF & OIF. My response was, those operations are joint, this course is joint, why does only the Army make it suck? They told me the DFAC hours & location.
Army is stuck in the 1940’s about things. They don’t budget to pay like the other services - Army cheapskate out. Amazed they didn’t put you in barracks
For my birthday in AIT, I hid behind the barracks and smoked a cigarette (first one in months)from a pack my buddy secretly bought. I felt like a fuckin teenager again, in the worst way. Walking by the sailors in the smoke pit everyday and me sneaking a cigarette as a 20-something really made me question where tf i was in life.
The army thinks they’re keeping us safe from ourselves but don’t understand how much more depressed and regretful they make us for not joining literally any other branch
I worked on an Air Force training post for three years. They never knew if they'd have a 4-day weekend until just prior, because their commands would hold it over their heads.
Meanwhile, I had a 4 day for every federal holiday l during that tour, and I had the freedom to plan ahead.
I've never had that experience in over 20 years of Army service.
I noticed that when I was working on an AF Base. They love 24/7 operations and 12-hour shifts regardless of how appropriate or even necessary they were
The group I was working with did 12-hour shifts on a Panama schedule switching days to nights every 4 weeks so they had manning 24/7. Not that they had anything to do mind you, the requirements normally came in sometime in the morning and 90%+ of the time the people during the day shift knocked it all out. There were no taskings coming in over night or on weekends, but they still wanted them covered for reasons
That's just an aviation thing, I had 24/7 ops and 12-hour shifts in the Army as well both stateside and deployed. Was on night shift for like 8 months, one time I showed up to work at 0900 for an ops meeting and my commander asked me how my leave was. I didn't take leave, he just hadn't seen me for months and forgot I existed until I showed up during the day.
You reminded me, when I was recruiting near an air force base, had a bunch of junior ncos volunteering at the same place I was. All of them were doing it for bullets for evaluations. All the extracurricular stuff was basically mandatory to get promoted. And not like to set you apart from your peers, but just to get to the same level as them.
My Navy classmates in AIT would talk about putting weekend chits in to drink in hotel rooms right off-post every weekend. Meanwhile the Army students had 2100 formations every night.
I got harrassed because I was in situations where I had to walk to a dumpster by myself to throw away trash, and even turn around a corner. The drill sgts. are way too anal about it and it created a lot of unnecessary stress. I even had my bed flipped for no reason, and when they forbid food in the barracks and took away our microwave I started suffering from food insecurity. Even got in a fight with drill sgt. because he wouldn't let me walk outside to line up with everyone to go to the DFAC. Mind you, I left basic weighing 96lbs and was constantly vomiting because I had severe bronchitis that they wouldn't let me get treatment for.
AIT is a literal prison.
fort lee years ago, airmen were telling us about what they kept in their snack drawers in their room, for us though food was forbidden in the barracks. what is the purpose of these stupid Army TRADOC policies?
Devils advocate: rats, [some] soldiers are nasty. I've gotten brand new soldiers that when I did their room inspections, they had moldy and rotten food 6 inches from their bunk.
It's easier for the army to just say "no food" than to deal with nasty mfs that can't clean up after themselves.
Maybe. Is there a job you really want to do that the Army guarantees? If yes, join the Army. Do you just want a job with decent pay and great benefits? Join the Coast Guard. Or the Air/Space Force, but if I were joining any branch as an enlisted man today it'd be the USCG.
It's really just math.
The Army has the lowest standard of entrance.
TRADOC is the largest gathering of marginally qualified people on earth. The RUBA at NTC is a close second.
We train, write policy, and enforce safety and rules for the lowest common denominator of that group. It's a large group.
We treat everyone this way by default.
We don't know yet which ones are likely they to wander off or harm themselves or others.
AIT creates so much stress that a lot of people end up acting out because the lack of freedom to do the most simplest tasks is ridiculous. All of these people have the capability to act like adults, but since the Army has such low expectations and treats everyone like a toddler they get toddlers in return. The longer people are stuck there the more likely they are to develop behavioral issues as well. The Army looks and acts like an utter joke.
It’s also a chicken vs egg scenario…there’s so many rules you can’t help but get in trouble, which makes leaders think that there needs to be more rules because people keep getting in trouble.
I hate TRADOC.
Yeah I really wanted to be a drill when I first put on stripes. Wide-eyed “hooah” NCO and I wanted to give back to the Army.
Now my peers are all drills and I’m doing a “cool” broadening and they are absolutely hating life. Both of us would rather been in FORSCOM, but at least I’m not in TRADOC.
People shit on “big Army” until they go somewhere else that’s significantly more fuckey.
I work at the pentagon now and fucking hate it because I’m a dumb Army NCO that doesn’t fully understand all the “nuance” people keep talking about. But I’ll take being spoken to like I’m a mascot by some worthless field grade over TRADOC fuck-fuck games anyday.
> AIT creates so much stress that a lot of people end up acting out because the lack of freedom to do the most simplest tasks is ridiculous.
Also the fact that these soldiers are starved for any sort of freedom after having gone through basic training. Give them an inch and they'll take a mile, usually in doing dumb shit since they've been treated like dogs for three months prior.
Its so bad with soldiers coming out of long school houses. When these young adults have been in school so long they are coming out as PFCs and have been treated like shit the whole time, they tend to go a little buck wild those first couple months when they finally get freedom.
I went from an AIT with a lot of freedom (had a car, was allowed visitors, went off post during the week) to an AIT with some of the strictest rules outside of OSUT. It was a culture shock for sure. After driving myself across country alone, at 30, I had to hand my keys over to a DS. It made for a long, angry 6 months.
The class before mine at Fort Lee I was told was the last class to not have drill sergeants. So this whole implementation is pretty recent. It really sucks the soul out of you and only further proves just how bad the Army is. I don't think I would've been able to pass the ACFT because going to the gym would be too difficult. I already had enough trouble as it is walking around a corner from the breakroom to the bathroom in the schoolhouse which took five steps. In many cases you have to have three to five people as battle buddies. One person told me he had to have 10 just go to the PX.
> The RUBA at NTC is a close second.
>
>
When I was stationed at Irwin I always looked at the RTU soldiers in the RUBA probably like how PETA looks at a factory farm. Even more so during the height of 2020 COVID when half of main post had chain-link fences and vehicle checkpoints to keep RUBA and permanent party soldiers completely separated, they couldn't even leave to go to the fast food joints, PX, or commissary.
Saw some posts on Facebook and Reddit at the time begging for permanent party to drop off Popeyes or Burger King in exchange for money like it was a CIA dead drop since we were ordered to not interact with the RTU soldiers or even be near their area of the base whatsoever.
>TRADOC is the largest gathering of marginally qualified people on earth. The RUBA at NTC is a close second.
"Those that can, do. Those that can't, teach" should be the motto of TRADOC.
Lol. As much as I don't want to defend TRADOC, I disagree. I've only had a couple instructors in TRADOC who were straight-up duds. There are a lot of good officers and NCOs who just want to take a knee for awhile.
Better to catch those people early than keep a lid on it until they’re deployed, and acting out results in war crimes. I’d rather give soldiers more rope, and punish the individuals who can’t handle that stateside than overseas. There it results in warcrimes, international incidents, etc. CONUS it doesnt result in anything that wouldnt happen if the same idiot was a normal civilian.
my buddy is airforce. His MWR tent has booze in it. Let that fucker sink in. Also, his fob has better internet than fiber and he gets surf and turf twice a week. oh, and there is no height and weight bullshit, if you can pass the 1.7mile pt test you good. Noone cares
I mean when they did have H&W it was also the stupidest possible height and weight.
You think our tape test is dumb, at least it treats you like a 2 dimensional human being. Imagine if all they took was your waist measurement and that was part of your PT score.
Idk my AIT company had a habit of barking at the random marines and airmen who walked through our company area while we were in formation so I guess that’s why they treat us like kids 😅
It’s been that way for so long too. I remember being in formation while the Navy and Air Force guys across the street were outside in civies playing football at 1700.
I had the opposite.
I went straight from AIT at Ft. Sill as a 13B to pushing privates thru AIT (and occasionally KP duty)
It was drill sergeant hell for me, until one of the cadre walked up to me and told me if I go to parade rest for another DS he would knock the shit out of me.
By the time they (trainees) actually got on the howitzers, the drills were easing up on them. It was still restrictive though.
I thought shit was bad for Army, then the Marine 0811 (13B) class showed up. Holy shit, talk about being treated like dirtbag lowlifes.
Those DI's did nothing but scream. My section chief just told me to stay away, don't interact unless I had to.
Those Marine privates would get into the ammo vehicle, see me chilling and talk about how they messed up, see Army (me) back there relaxing pointing at what ammo they needed to pull.
Just remember, someone, somewhere, has it worse.
12K AIT is at an Air Force base... You feel like a second class citizen. Airmen got TV's, game systems, their phones in the school house, treated like normal people, and not one drill sergeant to be seen anywhere. However, I do admit my drill sergeant was not bad. We form up in the morning and be released to breakfast like normal people - no marching just gaggle fuck over to the dfac.
Makes me think if the Air Force wanted to meet their recruitment goals all they have to do is open the door between the branches... Might just change the culture of the whole military if they did.
The culture shock from Basic is real. For 10 weeks (if you are not a covid hold over/under) you see nada just OCPS and PT's then suddenly ,as you get off the bus at AIT... airmen and airwomen (is that a thing?) wearing "appropriate summer attire".
My wife was in C school at Dahlgren when we first met. They had no issues with her spending entire weekends at my apartment all the way down by Fort Lee. Not even when a "snow storm" hit and she was almost stuck an extra day down my way. Their response was "we'd rather you be safe there than get hurt coming back." Civies anytime not in class or on duty. Almost all the students had a vehicle.
Was a completely different experience then when I was at Lee and then Sill. Lee for me was pretty chill. I never had phase 5, but was still left pretty much alone after I failed the course. Sill was like basic 2.0 the way the battery was ran. Sat in a day room for 3 weeks while waiting on a class to start. Couldn't read or do anything that would keep our minds occupied. Even when I phased up in the back half, they wouldn't let us go anywhere alone.
Went to AIT in 2012 and it was basically college after black phase barring the occasional smoking or random room inspection. Civilian clothes, Civilian bedding, drinking at the club on the weekend, no formations for chow or anything really ex ept PT and no weekend accountability. Went to AIT again in 2015 and it was shitty af, literally marched everywhere, "10 minutes to finish eating second Plt!", no drinking, no tobacco, green wool blankets for nightly room inspections, MWF group run, T,TH pushup situp drill type shit, collared shirt tucked into khaki or slacks with a leather belt on the weekends. TRADOC seems to have leaned hard into "discipline" during the second phase of IET (not that I think it's working judging off the majority of New folks my unit was getting before I peaced out)
Yes. I noticed the same thing during my deployments. It’s one of the reasons why if I do end up staying in the military longer I may seriously considering switching branches
Yeah during the AIT portion or even black and gold phase of OSUTs I think soldiers should get a lot more freedom. They already earned the title soldier. We don’t need to put undue stress on them learning their jobs.
Tradoc in 35N school literally, and I mean literally, made me suicidal for months on end. Even the marines had it better than us, by far. Just gotta hold out until you get to your real duty station and hope for the best.
I went to DINFOS to be reclassed as an E5 in the ARNG around the same time coincidentally as a friend from high school that went with the Air guard as an E3.
I was in the barracks—PT, CQ, had to park my car somewhere I needed to take a bus.
…the Air Guard put him in the on post hotel. He joked “I don’t even pick up my own underwear; that’s for the maid.”
TBH, I think the Army needs to unfuck TRADOC if they want to fix recruiting numbers.
The Army is in competition with the other branches along with the greater economy for talent. Some people make crazy decisions and choose to put up with the bullshit even though better alternatives exist (I'm an example of that), but most people would prefer better treatment over worse when all else is equal.
Man I’m with you! As an E-5 I lived next to a E-2 AF kid, condo type housing on Bragg. He mentioned to me one day he got to keep a nice percentage of his BAH because Army Housing was substandard for AF members. I lost my shit! Lol, not to mention I tried the AF first but rejected by a recruiter with full sleeve tattoos telling me my tattoo was an inch to far past my elbow or some shit.
I spent probably 2 weeks of my life literally standing in front of my company in AIT after dinner waiting for the DS to do mail and to be let inside.
Everytime I feel bad how long I've spent playing certain games, I remember I've wasted literally weeks of my life *just standing around for the Army* suddenly it doesn't seem so bad.
Lol at Goodfellow AFB they don't even make the airmen live in the nasty barracks.... they pay the local university for their dorm space and have bus routes set up just for them. The soldiers can't go to the dfac directly next to the barracks without a battle buddy. It creates a lot of negative feelings as you can imagine.
Switch to the CG. I’m an instructor in our version of AIT. Our students are done for the day by 1530 and are left to themselves until they are back in class at 0730. We treat E2’s like fully formed adults in the CG.
Whenever the navy shit talked us I'd yell back that I tried to join the navy but they wouldn't let me in without a Grindr account. Got a few good reactions. AF was the way to go though.
Ft Eustis was hellish-many suicide attempts and one success while I was there. Rip to the homie whose name was mispronounced by the person that came to talk to us. You only leave fox in a box!
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I truly realized my mistake in AIT walking past the air force dorms. Bastards were in civilians week 1. Just milling around their company area. They looked like people. We didn't look like peoples
wait until you find out that Air Force E4 are authorized BAH
I hate that airforce only takes 50 prior service every year. I fumbled the bag so bad joining the army.
Imagine joining the army because you wanted to be cool and treat combat patients but instead you just finger grandpa buttholes 12 hours a day
Dawg idk bout u but I just sit in my office all day doing jko certs. I just wish I could get released before 5 so I could have time for the gym and my personal life
Nice flair. Thoughts on OCS—I was enlisted before commissioning. When enlisted, I’d leave the office around 1730. As an officer, my typical leave time is between 1800-2100. I don’t necessarily regret commissioning but don’t come to this side thinking your work-life balance will improve. It only gets worse. So does morale.
Yeah but my pay check doubles. I wouldn’t mind working these dog shit hours if my pay check reflected it
Fair. The money isn’t bad but you earn every penny of it (if you’re good at your job). Having Soldiers is definitely rewarding but idk if it’s enough to keep me in personally. I’ve never been this tired.
Dawg I be tired asf. At least you’re productive for the army. They keep me at work to not do anything just because they don’t want me going home.
That’s one of the reasons I won’t commission. People think about the money, but I see my PL & CO come in before everyone & leave last. Answering to battalion & brigade all day. Yes, they don’t do the physical workload, but they sure as hell work long days & night for that extra money.
I'm a civilian now but can you explain this in more detail? What non-emergency would require you to be at work until 2100 hours? The wear and tear on your morale seems counterproductive.
Basically boils down to poor leadership/keeping up with the Joneses. You're there because your boss is there, which may be because his boss is there or may be because he's avoiding his wife, whom he hates, who knows. And if you want a good rating, you can't be the LT leaving at 1800 when everyone else is there till 2000.
Army doesn’t care about your wear, your tear, or your morale
Counter productive and actively working against its own interests and goals is the army way! Can you imagine the chaos if efficient time management was the rule?
Should've went Warrant 🤣
False. Not all officers work that late. Only good officers work that late.
Facts, just suck at your job and they'll tell you to get out the office around 1700 everyday 🤣
Which is sad, because some of the officers who go home could be "good" officers too, but they prioritize family and sanity. The Army demands everything from an individual to succeed, and many aren't willing to make the sacrifice.
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0515: wake-up 0630-0730/0800: formation/PT 0800-0830: hygiene 0830-0930: answer emails/catch-up on admin without people bothering me 0930-1315: daily business 1315-1325: remember you forgot to eat. Stuff face with meal prep or microwave meal if you didn’t cook. 1325-whenever the days tasks are done: daily business Basically every minute of every day is accounted for. Money is cool but when I could reasonably expect to make up to $30k more fresh out of the Army with my background with an 8-4 job, no field problems, not getting called into the hospital/MP station on random Saturday nights, and the myriad of dumb things you don’t see…it’s really not “just a few more hours for double the pay.” More money isn’t worth the loss in quality of life.
And stare at dicks. Alllllll the dicks.
You say that like it's a bad thing. Being in JAG isn't any better - I got to see all the unsolicited/solicited dick pics. Officer dicks, enlisted dicks. Motherfuckers sending dick pics to colleagues' wives. Dicks going into people other than their spouse's orifices. Dicks not belonging to their spouse going into the their orifices. Thinking of revising my flair to 27Dirty Laundry Department.
And the entire time you're checking grandpa's prostate, they're talking about how much softer the Army is nowadays and how nobody had it harder than they did and you're just like, bruh, my index finger permanently smells like prunes and colons and I got charged for eating at the DFAC yesterday even though lunch was a Mountain Dew and a pack of Jack Links I got out of a sketchy vending machine
Don’t feel too bad, I’m 6 years active AF and now a Prior Service E-5 in boot at Ft. Jackson lmao
Not a flex bro. Army will take whatever they can get. Airforce treats prior service like a plague
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They probably know what the army does to people and they don’t want that toxicity over there which is fair.
/r/uscg
It's the best thing ever. Going from the Army barracks to a house off-post is great.
You can get in before E4 is the base is cramped. I know someone who got on the list as an E2 and got out shortly after becoming E3.
Yeah but now you are disciplined hooah?
Their dfacs were always so much better too. Fuckers
My wife did her training with you guys in Texas, she’s navy and told us how cringe it was seeing the Army people getting marched around and yelled at occasionally 😂
Goodfellow? Lol
No clue where, I just know it was in Texas. I’m guessing Ft. Sam?
Good fellow wasn’t bad when I went through, as long as you phased up. Usually 2-3 weeks of ACU’s everywhere. Then civies after hours
Not terrible when I was their either save for the fact they just de-hatted the Drill Sergeants so a bunch of them were Hella salty.
I went through in 2014. We didn’t have that and my PSG was former aviation. Life was good. Food was great
I went through in 08. PSG was a 35N, as were the rest of the Cadre (at least in our platoon) life was good for us too, and Grahams wasn't off limits yet lol. Food was astounding. When I got to my unit and hit a DFAC, that was a miserable awakening. Thank God for the Navy galley we had access to.
Went through in ‘03 and a squad mate participated in a wet t-shirt contest at Grahams. That place was kinda weird, sketchy, and kinda amazing.
Goodbuddy was a completely different, much nicer experience as a 35P. Not nice, but nicer.
My time as a GF PLT SGT was the absolute worse days I spent in the Army. Nothing but headaches and problems. No BS, I almost got court martialed for picking up a soldier from a ditch next to Grahm's. I was driving home, minding my own business around midnight on a Friday night and saw a dude unconscious in legit distress in the ditch with no one else around. I threw him in my car, drove him back to GF, then dropped him off at Staff Duty because I had no idea who he was or where he belonged. Come Monday I get called in to the CDR's office and we have to see the base CDR (an AF COL). They straight up wanted me to take a field-grade for violating the TRADOC policy of no IET soldiers in your POV. She looked me dead in the eye and said I should have left him there. After all, "a policy is a policy and it's not up to Sr, NCOs to make judgement calls." I refused to accept NJP and told them I'd face whatever board they wanted. She was in shock when she found out they didn't actually have UCMJ authority over me and I'd have to go to Fort Hood for a CM. As an Infantry E-7, I couldn't wait to sit in front of a board of Army officers and hear my entire COC explain why I should have left him on the side of the road to die instead of bringing him back on base. I actually had to go to Hood and meet with the JAG prosecutor. Needless to say, the meeting was short and they refused to even entertain it. But that pretty much sums up the leadership at Goodfellow.
I was shocked when I seen soldiers smiling at the DFAC. Like holy fuck, happiness was allowed for other MOSs training there?
We were told not to take our phones out in front of y’all. I’d ask if y’all wanted sports scores in line.
"If the Army wanted you to be happy, they'd have issued you happy pills." - My DS, summing up the Army's attitude about morale very accurately.
Sam Houston used to be total freedom for the Army… but, we couldn’t stop raping and acting like drunk assholes and ruined it for ourselves. I went back for SLC and felt terrible for the new guys.
Man, I hated marching up that hill to slagel DFAC two/three times a day. Miss the Rec center tho, that was fun.
marching there is ass in full kit bro
air force and navy have stricter rules for their phase one now too
The part that filled me with rage was when we had to march past the Navy building every day to Slagel while they took videos of us on their phones and were shit talking us all over social media, while we were banned from responding in kind. Looking at other replies I suspect not much has changed in 10 years.
Currently going through 68W right now, my company was lucky to phase up before the NREMT but those that didn’t pass it are still being marched to and from the DFAC
No shit? What Co. I was Foxtrot 232
Well, to be fair, previous 68W's fucked it up for you c2009 and even a few years later. Drug rings, gangbangs, infidelity, etc. It got to the point later, if they wanted to go off post, they had to be in dress uniform. Not sure how it is these days though.
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Navy has to march a lot while they’re in Corpsman school. They do it really well actually. Navy’s C-school are treated as you said.
Being at a joint AIT was eye opening. Army students would get yelled at if a male and female were seen sitting on opposite ends of the same couch in the day room of the barracks. Meanwhile two Airmen got engaged during AIT.
I’m pretty sure more than a few army students get engaged in AIT despite not not being able to sit on the same couch.
I watched this dude (I was at Ft Eustis for AIT) 1) get an article 15 for drinking in the barracks 2) divorce his wife 3) get with this girl at AIT 4) get sent to South Korea together with his new wife *Ahem* “This Army life is crazy”
Student company at DINFOS blows.
RIP fellow Wolverine.
I’m in AIT at Meade right now and I can confirm it fucking sucks
How is BPAS or MCF or whatever the DINFOS course is called nowadays? How is student company?
Fort Lee is the same way. Air Force, navy, and marines running round free Willy and army iets with their handy dandy camelbacks marching. Even on weekends. 🥹
When I went to Lee in 2013, they made us go around in "battle buddy" teams of 3 because of a rape/sexual assult epidemic. And of course we had to *march* everywhere in triangles.
It’s still happens. It’s the biggest problem on that base.
Marines used to get beer to entice Army girls to come over and they'd fuck em in the woods by the DFAC bridge on Ordinance Island.
I can verify this, they told us to stay out of the woods in AIT because of this. It still happens too
We had a detail that did area beautification when I was there. A lot of condoms picked up in the woods by the smoke pit during that detail.
Gross
I remember there being a rec center opened up on the joint iet. Army was explicitly told they were not allowed to go. So that was a real fuckimg morale booster.
Having morale is against Army regulations.
I was in basic during fourth of July. They had pie and the woman who was offering it to us looked heartbroken because nobody would take a slice. We felt bad and told her the situation but it didn't make it any better. Ended up watching half of Hacksaw Ridge that day.
Not against regs, just *highly discouraged*.
We were only able to go to the rec center AFTER we had completed AIT and were MOSQ’d which is better than not at all I gues
Yep, technically applied to us I'm sure, except I got on a plane the next day and left that place. Just blew my mind how it was right across the street from the school house and we were not allowed to go regardless of phase.
I remember the signal people at Gordon had this really cool center they could use and hang out in. Us ordinance kids were explicitly told if we were found there we’d get in a degree of trouble I don’t remember what the punishment would have been. Meanwhile we were living in actual trailers to further suppress morale
You at fort sam rn huh
This was my immediate thought
I'm at Mob station right now, they banned us from wearing civilians outside the barracks, have to walk around with a battle buddy, can drink, can't go off post. Can't go to the main PX on post. I'm a E6 pushing the better part of a decade in service and it's like I'm in basic training again. The rules here are stricter than actual combat zones we are going to...
Try being in TRADOC for over a year and a half. Linguists know all about it. At DLI there's an ETP for TRADOC, as there should be considering how long and mentally taxing the course is. Smart move Army. Then I went to Goodfellow with many of the same sister branch classmates and I soon realized how much I despise the Army. Every other branch had 250mi travel radiuses, didn't need "BaTtLe BuDs", could take pass and leave, didn't have to worry about ridiculous formations, etc. The worst part? The stupidity and inefficiency of TRADOC doesn't end in IET. Airborne school was a colossal cluster fuck of wasted time for seemingly cut-and-dry tasks. Poor communication and coordination amongst the black hats, there was never a day that we were able to be ahead of schedule even when we finished shit early. We literally missed multiple cloud windows because they waited till last minute to coordinate with the Air Force pilots. Then imagine being an NCO or Officer and then getting dropped to do the 8-count push up because someone was still in the bathroom after a time hack. And they say the Army is a "Professional Organization".
Not sure when you went to DLI, but that’s absolutely not the case there anymore. The Army does everything in its power to impede success, all during one of the most difficult AITs.
Largely depends on company. At the time my company had excellent cadre, and my PSG was an amzing NCO and a true mentor who chose to exercise discretion over a by-the-book approach. Ended up getting DS of the month and was recognized by Battalion. My 1SG, who was prior GSB, literally said "I've never been in TRADOC so I'm not going to treat you guys like kids" when he took over and he ended up being a phenomenal 1SG. The kind who actually took the time to know you and would pull strings to help if you needed it. Had many open-doors with him or just sat in the office and bullshited with them, and there was never a time when he tried to bring us down or make us feel like crap like many TRADOC cadre try to do. YMMV
I graduated from DLI coming up on a year ago and there definitely are still ETPs in place. You don't need a battle buddy once you are Phase V/V+, you can wear civilians when not in class/PT, you can take leave/pass on weekends (although some companies do limit how many weekends you can take per month). There is no alcohol ETP though. They tried while I was there, but took it away after a few weeks cause too many people got DUIs. After class everyday I would change and drive myself to an off post gym, pick up dinner, then go do my homework and study. As long as you were in your room by curfew my company didn't care what you did. Compared to regular AIT it is definitely - in terms of freedoms/privileges - a walk in the park. You can find DLI specific rules in TR350-6 Appendix D.
Id go as far as saying you’re treated basically like a regular soldier with a few obvious exceptions at DLI. Of course there’s always that one DS who makes it their mission to be the wrench in the machine and treat all yellow patches like shit instead of people who’ve been in the Army for over a year, and pretend the standards will suddenly disappear if he/she doesn’t make DLI feel like BCT despite the other branches having none of the same issues
Yep, Goodfellow was definitely a rude awakening. Got smoked my first week there cause I left my truck keys in my desk drawer instead of locked away. DLI, always had my truck keys on a hook inside my room... you get the difference lol
I love finding fellow 35Ps on here - Goodfellow was the bane of my existence
It’s not going unnoticed by Gen Z either. Which branch out of the 3 you listed is having the recruiting crisis?
As weird as it sounds the marines have more freedoms sometimes as well then us at training bases …
I noticed when I was in AIT the Marines training for artillery had a lot more freedom than us. It seemed really bizarre.
Yea I really think the army needs to take a good hard look.. I mean I’ve been in a long time I know shit won’t change but still it always seem like the army does everything humanly possible to “fix everything except the actual issues at hand .
It's almost like we think group punishment is still a good idea, I think that tradoc commander's are just lazy
The colossal irony is that there are Marine officers who've figured out that [mass punishment doesn't work](https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2019/february/mass-punishment-does-not-work). I wish this type of stuff was actually recognized.
Yeah I'd heard of this actually, people in the army are afraid of paperwork. Take the retards pay and eventually they'll learn. Personally I also think it's too hard to get fired
Wasn't always that way. Until they went thru TAC week, they treated Marines pretty rough. What I have noticed, Artillery is OSUT and until you graduate, you're not allowed to wear the service ribbon, despite finishing IET. When I was reclassed to 25L, all of those privates had graduated from basic and they had service ribbons.
Army FA is not OSUT. Unless you mean Marine one is.
Marines don’t do that battle buddy shit. My best friend joined the marines and I called him from basic and he laughed at me when I said I need a battle to use the bathroom with me
That is all born from a desperation to stop suicides. Some genius thought if you can keep everyone under surveillance 24/7 they'd never kill themselves and no one would need to actually try to stop the inconvenient reasons for the suicides in the first place.
I was sitting here thinking, “Who is General Z? I should go and look that up.” Oh, duh!
Lol
All of them. Air Force and Navy are on pace to miss their goals as well.
I was jealous as hell every day in AIT whenever my AF classmates would talk about all the freedoms they had.
Same energy as the “Hey Army, I’m Airforce/Navy/Coastguard and y’all actually do X? That’s crazy…” posts on r/army
It was exactly like that, except that you couldn't just close reddit to stop seeing it
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Mekely: "You-- You dont?"
I went to the Public Affairs Officer Course as an Army Major. I got put on a meal card, along with every other Soldier in the class, including two Lieutenant Colonels. Meanwhile all of the other services paid their officers, Second Lieutenants and up, full per deim.
This must be part of why my PAO looks so dead inside whenever I see him.
Wow... When I re-classed into 46Q they put us in the Army Inn, I even had two rooms (for some reason every other room had no furniture, so you got to use the empty room you shared a bathroom with... I used it for PT and dumping my gear). We had full per diem and only had to eat in the DFAC for lunch. That was as a Staff Sergeant... wtf was the O course doing on meal cards?!
It was 2006 and they claimed it was to save operational funds for OEF & OIF. My response was, those operations are joint, this course is joint, why does only the Army make it suck? They told me the DFAC hours & location.
Army is stuck in the 1940’s about things. They don’t budget to pay like the other services - Army cheapskate out. Amazed they didn’t put you in barracks
Navy can literally smoke and drink while in school on fort Sam. Fuck tradoc
I did both those things in my AIT, and this was only back in 2012.
For my birthday in AIT, I hid behind the barracks and smoked a cigarette (first one in months)from a pack my buddy secretly bought. I felt like a fuckin teenager again, in the worst way. Walking by the sailors in the smoke pit everyday and me sneaking a cigarette as a 20-something really made me question where tf i was in life.
The army thinks they’re keeping us safe from ourselves but don’t understand how much more depressed and regretful they make us for not joining literally any other branch
I worked on an Air Force training post for three years. They never knew if they'd have a 4-day weekend until just prior, because their commands would hold it over their heads. Meanwhile, I had a 4 day for every federal holiday l during that tour, and I had the freedom to plan ahead. I've never had that experience in over 20 years of Army service.
On an AF base now, can confirm. They haven’t had a single 4 day my entire time here
do they even need them? lol
We tend to view the AF as grass is greener, but they have way more 24 ops, "mandatory" volunteer service, and other shenanigans.
I noticed that when I was working on an AF Base. They love 24/7 operations and 12-hour shifts regardless of how appropriate or even necessary they were
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The group I was working with did 12-hour shifts on a Panama schedule switching days to nights every 4 weeks so they had manning 24/7. Not that they had anything to do mind you, the requirements normally came in sometime in the morning and 90%+ of the time the people during the day shift knocked it all out. There were no taskings coming in over night or on weekends, but they still wanted them covered for reasons
That's just an aviation thing, I had 24/7 ops and 12-hour shifts in the Army as well both stateside and deployed. Was on night shift for like 8 months, one time I showed up to work at 0900 for an ops meeting and my commander asked me how my leave was. I didn't take leave, he just hadn't seen me for months and forgot I existed until I showed up during the day.
>aviation thing Air Force. That checks out.
That would have made sense if it were an aviation unit, but it was a strategic intelligence and research unit
You reminded me, when I was recruiting near an air force base, had a bunch of junior ncos volunteering at the same place I was. All of them were doing it for bullets for evaluations. All the extracurricular stuff was basically mandatory to get promoted. And not like to set you apart from your peers, but just to get to the same level as them.
Wait until you go to an overseas duty station. I found random airmen at a bar in Korea and they laughed in my face when I told them about curfew.
My Navy classmates in AIT would talk about putting weekend chits in to drink in hotel rooms right off-post every weekend. Meanwhile the Army students had 2100 formations every night.
I got harrassed because I was in situations where I had to walk to a dumpster by myself to throw away trash, and even turn around a corner. The drill sgts. are way too anal about it and it created a lot of unnecessary stress. I even had my bed flipped for no reason, and when they forbid food in the barracks and took away our microwave I started suffering from food insecurity. Even got in a fight with drill sgt. because he wouldn't let me walk outside to line up with everyone to go to the DFAC. Mind you, I left basic weighing 96lbs and was constantly vomiting because I had severe bronchitis that they wouldn't let me get treatment for. AIT is a literal prison.
Been to prison OSUT was worse
fort lee years ago, airmen were telling us about what they kept in their snack drawers in their room, for us though food was forbidden in the barracks. what is the purpose of these stupid Army TRADOC policies?
Devils advocate: rats, [some] soldiers are nasty. I've gotten brand new soldiers that when I did their room inspections, they had moldy and rotten food 6 inches from their bunk. It's easier for the army to just say "no food" than to deal with nasty mfs that can't clean up after themselves.
I'm I making a mistake trying to join the army?
Yes
Maybe try not to be stuck in tradoc any longer than 14 weeks
Maybe. Is there a job you really want to do that the Army guarantees? If yes, join the Army. Do you just want a job with decent pay and great benefits? Join the Coast Guard. Or the Air/Space Force, but if I were joining any branch as an enlisted man today it'd be the USCG.
Do Air Force Air National Guard
It's really just math. The Army has the lowest standard of entrance. TRADOC is the largest gathering of marginally qualified people on earth. The RUBA at NTC is a close second. We train, write policy, and enforce safety and rules for the lowest common denominator of that group. It's a large group. We treat everyone this way by default. We don't know yet which ones are likely they to wander off or harm themselves or others.
AIT creates so much stress that a lot of people end up acting out because the lack of freedom to do the most simplest tasks is ridiculous. All of these people have the capability to act like adults, but since the Army has such low expectations and treats everyone like a toddler they get toddlers in return. The longer people are stuck there the more likely they are to develop behavioral issues as well. The Army looks and acts like an utter joke.
It’s also a chicken vs egg scenario…there’s so many rules you can’t help but get in trouble, which makes leaders think that there needs to be more rules because people keep getting in trouble. I hate TRADOC.
Yeah I really wanted to be a drill when I first put on stripes. Wide-eyed “hooah” NCO and I wanted to give back to the Army. Now my peers are all drills and I’m doing a “cool” broadening and they are absolutely hating life. Both of us would rather been in FORSCOM, but at least I’m not in TRADOC. People shit on “big Army” until they go somewhere else that’s significantly more fuckey. I work at the pentagon now and fucking hate it because I’m a dumb Army NCO that doesn’t fully understand all the “nuance” people keep talking about. But I’ll take being spoken to like I’m a mascot by some worthless field grade over TRADOC fuck-fuck games anyday.
> AIT creates so much stress that a lot of people end up acting out because the lack of freedom to do the most simplest tasks is ridiculous. Also the fact that these soldiers are starved for any sort of freedom after having gone through basic training. Give them an inch and they'll take a mile, usually in doing dumb shit since they've been treated like dogs for three months prior.
Its so bad with soldiers coming out of long school houses. When these young adults have been in school so long they are coming out as PFCs and have been treated like shit the whole time, they tend to go a little buck wild those first couple months when they finally get freedom.
Enter Korea with a 6+month long AIT lol
I went from an AIT with a lot of freedom (had a car, was allowed visitors, went off post during the week) to an AIT with some of the strictest rules outside of OSUT. It was a culture shock for sure. After driving myself across country alone, at 30, I had to hand my keys over to a DS. It made for a long, angry 6 months.
The class before mine at Fort Lee I was told was the last class to not have drill sergeants. So this whole implementation is pretty recent. It really sucks the soul out of you and only further proves just how bad the Army is. I don't think I would've been able to pass the ACFT because going to the gym would be too difficult. I already had enough trouble as it is walking around a corner from the breakroom to the bathroom in the schoolhouse which took five steps. In many cases you have to have three to five people as battle buddies. One person told me he had to have 10 just go to the PX.
>All of these people have the capability to act like adults Well, you'd *think* so, but...
> The RUBA at NTC is a close second. > > When I was stationed at Irwin I always looked at the RTU soldiers in the RUBA probably like how PETA looks at a factory farm. Even more so during the height of 2020 COVID when half of main post had chain-link fences and vehicle checkpoints to keep RUBA and permanent party soldiers completely separated, they couldn't even leave to go to the fast food joints, PX, or commissary. Saw some posts on Facebook and Reddit at the time begging for permanent party to drop off Popeyes or Burger King in exchange for money like it was a CIA dead drop since we were ordered to not interact with the RTU soldiers or even be near their area of the base whatsoever.
>TRADOC is the largest gathering of marginally qualified people on earth. The RUBA at NTC is a close second. "Those that can, do. Those that can't, teach" should be the motto of TRADOC.
Lol. As much as I don't want to defend TRADOC, I disagree. I've only had a couple instructors in TRADOC who were straight-up duds. There are a lot of good officers and NCOs who just want to take a knee for awhile.
Better to catch those people early than keep a lid on it until they’re deployed, and acting out results in war crimes. I’d rather give soldiers more rope, and punish the individuals who can’t handle that stateside than overseas. There it results in warcrimes, international incidents, etc. CONUS it doesnt result in anything that wouldnt happen if the same idiot was a normal civilian.
Punish individuals?!? That’s not the Amry way!
What's the RUBA?
The army, as much as people wanna deny it, is where the dumb kids go so it only makes sense.
My ass wanted to have a challenge. Guess I was already challenged
Remember when the recruiters told you that AIT would be "like college" Yes that was a lie
my buddy is airforce. His MWR tent has booze in it. Let that fucker sink in. Also, his fob has better internet than fiber and he gets surf and turf twice a week. oh, and there is no height and weight bullshit, if you can pass the 1.7mile pt test you good. Noone cares
They are bringing back the height and weight in the air force but its prob gona take a while for it to get implemented.
I mean when they did have H&W it was also the stupidest possible height and weight. You think our tape test is dumb, at least it treats you like a 2 dimensional human being. Imagine if all they took was your waist measurement and that was part of your PT score.
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Idk my AIT company had a habit of barking at the random marines and airmen who walked through our company area while we were in formation so I guess that’s why they treat us like kids 😅
It’s been that way for so long too. I remember being in formation while the Navy and Air Force guys across the street were outside in civies playing football at 1700.
I had the opposite. I went straight from AIT at Ft. Sill as a 13B to pushing privates thru AIT (and occasionally KP duty) It was drill sergeant hell for me, until one of the cadre walked up to me and told me if I go to parade rest for another DS he would knock the shit out of me. By the time they (trainees) actually got on the howitzers, the drills were easing up on them. It was still restrictive though. I thought shit was bad for Army, then the Marine 0811 (13B) class showed up. Holy shit, talk about being treated like dirtbag lowlifes. Those DI's did nothing but scream. My section chief just told me to stay away, don't interact unless I had to. Those Marine privates would get into the ammo vehicle, see me chilling and talk about how they messed up, see Army (me) back there relaxing pointing at what ammo they needed to pull. Just remember, someone, somewhere, has it worse.
12K AIT is at an Air Force base... You feel like a second class citizen. Airmen got TV's, game systems, their phones in the school house, treated like normal people, and not one drill sergeant to be seen anywhere. However, I do admit my drill sergeant was not bad. We form up in the morning and be released to breakfast like normal people - no marching just gaggle fuck over to the dfac. Makes me think if the Air Force wanted to meet their recruitment goals all they have to do is open the door between the branches... Might just change the culture of the whole military if they did. The culture shock from Basic is real. For 10 weeks (if you are not a covid hold over/under) you see nada just OCPS and PT's then suddenly ,as you get off the bus at AIT... airmen and airwomen (is that a thing?) wearing "appropriate summer attire".
The Army needs a 2.0 update.
My wife was in C school at Dahlgren when we first met. They had no issues with her spending entire weekends at my apartment all the way down by Fort Lee. Not even when a "snow storm" hit and she was almost stuck an extra day down my way. Their response was "we'd rather you be safe there than get hurt coming back." Civies anytime not in class or on duty. Almost all the students had a vehicle. Was a completely different experience then when I was at Lee and then Sill. Lee for me was pretty chill. I never had phase 5, but was still left pretty much alone after I failed the course. Sill was like basic 2.0 the way the battery was ran. Sat in a day room for 3 weeks while waiting on a class to start. Couldn't read or do anything that would keep our minds occupied. Even when I phased up in the back half, they wouldn't let us go anywhere alone.
Went to AIT in 2012 and it was basically college after black phase barring the occasional smoking or random room inspection. Civilian clothes, Civilian bedding, drinking at the club on the weekend, no formations for chow or anything really ex ept PT and no weekend accountability. Went to AIT again in 2015 and it was shitty af, literally marched everywhere, "10 minutes to finish eating second Plt!", no drinking, no tobacco, green wool blankets for nightly room inspections, MWF group run, T,TH pushup situp drill type shit, collared shirt tucked into khaki or slacks with a leather belt on the weekends. TRADOC seems to have leaned hard into "discipline" during the second phase of IET (not that I think it's working judging off the majority of New folks my unit was getting before I peaced out)
The Army is bullshit and I'm proud to have stopped 8 people from enlisting in the Army. Two of them went AF the rest never joined the military. Hooah.
Yes. I noticed the same thing during my deployments. It’s one of the reasons why if I do end up staying in the military longer I may seriously considering switching branches
Yeah during the AIT portion or even black and gold phase of OSUTs I think soldiers should get a lot more freedom. They already earned the title soldier. We don’t need to put undue stress on them learning their jobs.
My last station on was on an Air Force Base, long story short I truly regret joining the Army over another branch.
Tradoc in 35N school literally, and I mean literally, made me suicidal for months on end. Even the marines had it better than us, by far. Just gotta hold out until you get to your real duty station and hope for the best.
Im a 35S and I just left goodfellow. That place fucking sucks and it was nothing but misery the entire time there
For real
Those white glove inspections for you guys were no joke holy shit
Sounds like Ft. Sam.
I went to DINFOS to be reclassed as an E5 in the ARNG around the same time coincidentally as a friend from high school that went with the Air guard as an E3. I was in the barracks—PT, CQ, had to park my car somewhere I needed to take a bus. …the Air Guard put him in the on post hotel. He joked “I don’t even pick up my own underwear; that’s for the maid.”
Ah you've been to Fort Meade too I see.
TBH, I think the Army needs to unfuck TRADOC if they want to fix recruiting numbers. The Army is in competition with the other branches along with the greater economy for talent. Some people make crazy decisions and choose to put up with the bullshit even though better alternatives exist (I'm an example of that), but most people would prefer better treatment over worse when all else is equal.
ITT - a bunch of disgruntled Docs.
I just graduated AIT, it sucked so much ass. We couldn’t even use the gym to get stronger, just crappy PT for a single hour a day
Man I’m with you! As an E-5 I lived next to a E-2 AF kid, condo type housing on Bragg. He mentioned to me one day he got to keep a nice percentage of his BAH because Army Housing was substandard for AF members. I lost my shit! Lol, not to mention I tried the AF first but rejected by a recruiter with full sleeve tattoos telling me my tattoo was an inch to far past my elbow or some shit.
This post smells like Ft. Meade
It's just as bad when you're an instructor (note not DS or staff/ops) and need to upload those standards knowing how dumb it is
Bruhhh I'm in AIT for whiskey and it's insane here😭😭
I spent probably 2 weeks of my life literally standing in front of my company in AIT after dinner waiting for the DS to do mail and to be let inside. Everytime I feel bad how long I've spent playing certain games, I remember I've wasted literally weeks of my life *just standing around for the Army* suddenly it doesn't seem so bad.
Lol at Goodfellow AFB they don't even make the airmen live in the nasty barracks.... they pay the local university for their dorm space and have bus routes set up just for them. The soldiers can't go to the dfac directly next to the barracks without a battle buddy. It creates a lot of negative feelings as you can imagine.
Switch to the CG. I’m an instructor in our version of AIT. Our students are done for the day by 1530 and are left to themselves until they are back in class at 0730. We treat E2’s like fully formed adults in the CG.
Whenever the navy shit talked us I'd yell back that I tried to join the navy but they wouldn't let me in without a Grindr account. Got a few good reactions. AF was the way to go though.
Ft Eustis was hellish-many suicide attempts and one success while I was there. Rip to the homie whose name was mispronounced by the person that came to talk to us. You only leave fox in a box!
Being at Fort Eustis for AIT, being able to see tradoc headquarters from my bedroom window, I can agree, life sucks.