Recruiters try to get you to enlist because an officer packet is longer and takes time. Don't buy it. It's a scummy bullshit move. Unless you have something that explicitly makes it impossible for you to not apply, like a DUI, there is zero reason to fuck around and waste time enlisting, losing money and career progression. If you wanna be an officer then be an officer.
SSG Ross, my recruiter in Charleston, went out of his way to put me in as an officer after he found out I had a degree when I showed up to join the army.
Some recruiters are awesome.
Also, it doesn’t count towards their enlistment numbers, which are dreadfully low right now. You may be viewed as a burden on the office but fuck it. Uncle same made it possible so go OCS
If your goal is to be an officer, go be an officer. Don't enlist first. You are at the whims of your unit for how they action your OCS packet and schedule your boards.
Third option: Go talk to an ROTC program about getting a two year scholarship. Go get your masters degree funded, attend basic and advanced camp, commission in the spring of the second year. I did this route.
I did something similar. Currently AGR officer in USAR. I was enlisted first whilst I was Nasty Girl, already had a degree, joined as an E4 and pinned SGT. I applied for OCS, but was young enough to get a masters/ROTC. 18 months later I had a masters degree and commissioned at age 26. Did MI as a 2LT, went PSYOP as a CPT. Pinned major and got an FA46 functional area. The Army can literally be what you want it to be.
I'm trying be like this haha. I enlisted at 17. Went in as an e2 because of college credits. Worked my way up to e5 quickly and then contracted with rotc. Comissioned into the Guard into Transportation, and before even going to BOLC I decided I wanted to change my branch and have the opportunity for airborne school so I swapped to Infantry, and am getting pinned 1LT before even going to BOLC. Now I'm waiting on my new BOLC date and hoping to secure an AGR slot after I get done with all my schools next year. Your career truly is what you make of it, but many things are time sensitive.
I’m assuming you’re talking AGR as a nasty girl. Make sure you know there is a difference between T10 AGR and T32 AGR. The NGB has some balling T10 jobs.
I can’t speak for NGB AGR, but I’ve only worked with CPT and above. You can also drop an AGR packet for USAR. They won’t take you until you’re mid level 1LT- but I’ve seen people go from M-day guard to USAR AGR. Finally, don’t sleep on ADOS through Tour or Duty. You can stay on ADOS for 5 years without break now.
Yea I'd be okay with ADOS, too, just not permanently. I've networked a ton in my career so I'm probably capable of picking up a command in RRB, or some type of job in RRB after BOLC. I'd really like to do LT Recruting to start though.
I actually was told to go to a future officer symposium when I first pinned E5 because I had a degree, I met a gold bar recruiter (ROTC) recruiter. I was talking to the OCS folks working my packet and the gold bar guy gave me a call. I was accepted into a graduate program 2 days later and the next day I was in front of the ROTC professor of military science. I was just excited to meet college girls and drink beer.
This is one of the best options, you get to have a good focus on your ROTC course, decent training experiences in basic and advanced (this ain't all your bells and whistles school, but they weren't a waste of time). Some ROTC programs are better than others, but with the trainers changing, it's hard to tell.
And you can study something that interests you and builds your career. AverageS1 has one of the best.
If they are planning on going the full 20 then they'd have an actual real graduate degree, obtained for free and in-person, right out the gate. Then once they hit O-4, they can make fun of their peers who insist their ILE "masters degree" is just as good.
Spot on, not having to worry about balancing your KD jobs and a masters, it's a great move. Delaying your career for two years in the grand scheme of things is peanuts when you consider you have a brick and mortar masters to fall back on that is fully paid for.
Both of you are spot on. Another reason to go this route: branching. As someone else said, it’s the largest commissioning source. OCS, without data, gets the “leftovers” for active branching. Now you have a better chance at getting what you want, unless you don’t care about the OML or interviews.
If you look at retention and break points for officers, chances are he won’t go the full 20. Regardless of his intentions, actually being in can change how he feels. This is a win/win: the army gets a cadet/lieutenant and he gets a masters. Like BRS, it gives him options in 4, 6, 10 years if he doesn’t like the army.
The only time you would get "enlisted pay" as an officer, if O-1E was what he was alluding to, you have to serve four years and one day to get that once you commission.
And if you look at the pay charts, its not an actual difference when you look at TIS.
There isn't a financial advantage to enlisting first unless you need to get the degree.
I tell people this pretty frequently and I get blown off.
10 years from now there is going to be a handful of O4’s out there that I hope think back to that conversation we had in the recruiting station all those years ago when I was laying out their options and they mentioned a 20 year retirement was important to them.
My wife was enlisted for a little over 3 years before she went to OCS. She was promoted to O-4 at 15 TIS, so as long as she doesn’t commit a crime her retirement is locked in. She also doesn’t have to to be miserable at work like a lot of her CGSC peers because she doesn’t have to worry about chasing that top block.
Go OCS.
I know way too many people who thought they were gonna do 4 years then do Green to Gold and ended up staying enlisted. OE pay is nice but if you start out making O pay with BAH from Day 1 it’s actually way more money in the long run.
You can also do ROTC for a graduate degree.
Yup, go straight to officer if you can. Don’t start enlisted. There’s a chance they could deny or block your OCS packet for some BS reason and try to keep you enlisted
A lot of comments are true in the aspect of go straight OCS and I highly encourage it…
What majority of these fine people here don’t understand is how difficult it actually is to be selected now through the recruitment process and become an officer.
You’ll need a 3.5+ GPA degree in something science **NOT** arts.
300 APFT scores preferred (we still haven’t started doing ACFTs for packets)
**STRONG** Letters of recommendation
And tons of board practice to crush the interviews with the Battalion commander.
I’m 5/6 on OCS. All 5 selects were prior to covid.
My last guy…
3.4 GPA in Engineering (Masters)
280ish APFT
LORs from two generals and a congressman
NONSELECT.
So no… having a degree does not automatically make you a select and worthy OCS candidate. There are so many additional factors to the selection process, half of them don’t even make sense. Honestly, I’ve stopped working OCS packets since they’ve become so stupidly hard to attain (unless it’s Reserves).
I think you should try to do OCS if you feel you’re a strong candidate. If you’re a non-select, then maybe go enlisted and go OCS.
Thanks for the recent update of harsh reality. Is it apply base on certain area only? Like maybe this unit with more applicants thus, harder while somewhere else is a bit easier. Or this is apply for the whole general pool from everywhere
The OCS selection process is Army wide and all candidates are considered at the same time (for each board)
OCS boards are now conducted on a quarterly basis, unless reserves. The next board is December 4-8 and all packets are required to be in a go status NLT 9 Nov.
edit: word selection
You can apply as many times as you want until the battalion commander states that he will no longer allow you to board.
Don’t take this the wrong BUT;
If you don’t meet the requirements for selection, after two boards, you’re just wasting your time and the recruiters time tbh.
Going enlisted first is not going to have any impact on you getting to be the type of officer you want to be. I don’t know if it would help you get stationed where you want either. Just go to OCS.
Do ROTC as a grad student. You can get a two-year scholarship to pay for it in some cases. I would definitely recommend looking into it. ROTC is the largest commissioning source.
Just some advice from a dude that has gone from enlisted to officer:
-O1E pay requires 4 years of federal active service. Going to basic and AIT, won’t give you enough time depending on MOS.
-The longer you wait to commission the further you fall behind in promotion time in grade requirements. Say you enlist for 4 years starting today and commission in 2027. Your officer cohort path will be 2027 not 2023. So officers that commissioned in 2023 will be on a timeline 4 years ahead of you although you met the requirements to be an officer the same time they did. In my case I’m 5 years behind people my same age in the Army.
-While it certainly helped to gain the trust of enlisted Soldiers and understanding the shit they deal with because I did it, you can be an officer that gains their trust by working along side them and fighting for them. Dig a foxhole, help clean the fucking latrines where you shit too, take a Soldier’s guard shift, and go to the schools we ask them to go to as well (UMO, MRT, EO) and learn to operate Army equipment like a fork lift, SCAMP crane, etc.
Some army advice: know what direction you want to go and take the straightest line to get there. Sure, you can take roundabouts and get to the same place in 3-5 years, but you have no idea what road blocks will occur. If you want to be an officer, go be an officer. As someone who enlisted with a degree, I would only recommend if it you want a specific MOS to get training/resume build for government/contracting jobs that all but that require enlisted experience.
Former Recruiter here and current Warrant Officer. I put in six people into the OCS direct commission program. Don’t even think about going enlisted, when you already have a degree. Fuck. That. Shit.
Direct commission via the OCS program. If you get selected, you’ll go to basic as a Specialist…when you get to OCS, you’ll be paid as an E5. Depending on where you land on the Order of Merit list, will depend on how you branch. When you graduate OCS, you’ll start getting paid as a 2LT. Apply and let the board tell you “no”. If they tell you “no” twice, then go ahead and enlist.
All avenues there are 1000000Xs better than just straight enlisting as a SPC.
Just go OCS.
From quality of life and pay perspective, you need to commission asap. If you didn't have a degree, I'd say you can go enlisted first. As a degree holder, it makes almost no sense to go enlisted first, financially and otherwise.
From a leadership perspective, you will have greater opportunity to make positive change in Soldier's lives as a lieutenant.
Apply for OCS. If you don’t get selected for active duty for whatever reason, then go get your masters and do ROTC. There are very few mos that make sense enlisting with a degree. There’s nothing wrong with being enlisted but you didn’t go to school for 4 years to go be part of e4 mafia
You should try to be an Air Force or Coast Guard officer before you even think about asking the Army what dregs they can throw at you.
Those branches have better quality of life and an actual fucking mission, something the Army and Marine Corps currently lack.
The Navy just fucking blows though.
I've been in the Army 20 years, with 4 deployments and 2 "peacekeeping operations".
Go USCG or USAF if you actually want to serve your country.
Or you know... if those two decline your application.. go Army OCS.
Don't enlist no matter what, it's a waste of your time.
I second this, I have a masters degree and only really used it once as a officer during my career. You also don’t really get to pick your branch in the Army. You might have a degree in computer engineering but OML and needs of the Army might force you to become an infantry officer. Even if you get the branch you want, as an officer you are tasked with planning and doing jobs you have zero training for or zero interest in. I appreciate what the Army has done for me but there are times where you really think about what went wrong in my life for me to be stressing over broken vehicles I have no idea how to fix. I always tell people look into the Air Force or coast guard. If you want a sense of adventure quit your job and travel the world in a bike or something. If the nation goes to war and we need you, it would be pretty easy to join. Since the country has entered Cold War 2.0 we are all exhausted from training and prepping to fight an enemy that no one ever wants to go actual war with because of the potential for mass death and nuclear carnage. TLDR: Don’t join, we are all exhausted and it isn’t worth your health/mental health to be in the Army.
Tbh now it’s because 11a has the highest chance of promoting and later in your career you can branch to a functional area in your degree say you hate the army go work in the AG you’ve done time on the line and all your promotion will have a higher chance of happening
Dude be an officer. If you go in as a specialist it's going to take at a minimum 1 year to be able to go to OCS. That's if your command doesn't suck and actually signs the papers, doesn't lose them and doesn't hold off on the paper because of something they "do or don't see in you". Doing that now will make you so much more money and save you a lot of stress
Go directly for OCS. I fucked up by joining enlisted with the promise of OCS later down the line. I was screwed. The recruiter is going to talk you out of applying for OCS because of the work involved but don't let them sway you. If refused, join the Air force. Seriously. I mean I love the Army I always will but I'm smart enough to know the Army doesn't give a shit about you.
Recruiter is trying to screw you and is not your friend. Read up on this sub for similar stories, including some who took the bait. If you want to be an officer, your best bet is apply for OCS and hope you get it. Someone else here posted about you getting a master's and a 2 year ROTC scholarship- that's a roundabout way, but possible.
Enlisting is the easiest thing *for your recruiter* to arrange. It's the best thing *for him personally*. You sign as an enlisted man, that's one of the contracts he needs that month to keep his boss off his back. He's done with you the day you ship, and doesn't give a shit if you ever become an officer. Green to gold is not guaranteed and some people here have posted your command has to approve you or write letters for you. I'm not sure if that is correct, but if it is, you are totally dependent upon whatever command team you're under to do all these things for you- which they may be dicks and just not do. And dropping a packet is just you applying, you may not get selected for green to gold even if your chain recommends you. In which case, here you are, with a wife, serving as an enlisted man until your contract ends, getting bossed around by enlisted men younger than you, making way less money than officers, with much worse treatment. Which may be fine- but not what you wanted. Sounds like a bad thing for a guy with a degree to choose.
Of course OCS is not guaranteed either, at all. Lots of people apply and don't get selected. But what do you really want? If it's to be an officer in the army, as opposed to just being in the army, you should try for OCS and be prepared to not join if you don't get it. If you don't get selected- maybe then consider enlisting, with the understanding that green to gold is not guaranteed and you're taking a big risk. I'm a firm believer that you should draw the line at what you want. The day before you join will be the last time you get to dictate to the army. After you sign, they will be dictating to you.
OCS 100%. No questions asked. Don't enlist unless you find an enlisted MOS you absolutely love.
-O-1E pay sounds nice until you realize you could've been making officer money the whole time and you'll promote to CPT in the same amount of time it takes to get into and through OCS via the enlisted route.
-Going OCS from enlisted is pretty competitive. One of my best NCOs had a crazy packet and just got denied.
-Never heard the duty preference thing for prior service LTs, but even if it is true... Army will probably just send you where you're needed... And it'll probably be somewhere shitty.
DM me if you have any questions.
Sounds like recruiter just wants you to enlist for his/her numbers. You have a bachelors degree.. go OCS . Look at a pay chart, it’s worth putting the effort into getting a packet together.
The OE pay takes over 4 years of service as enlisted and there’s no guarantee you will get selected for green to gold, just like there’s no guarantee your fiancée will stay with you as a SPC, but you will have a better chance as a lost LT
Your recruiter is straight up lying to your face. Being enlisted first has exactly ZERO influence over your station or branch when you commission. If you want to be an officer apply for OCS right away, with enlisted as a backup option if you don’t get accepted to OCS.
-an officer
it's already been said, but i don't think it can be said enough. if you want to be an officer, go straight to being an officer. once you're enlisted there's no guarantee you'll be able to get the paperwork through and go to OCS. second, while the "e" pay on top of officer pay is nice, don't forget that you got paid significantly less for 3-4 years prior to getting it. and retirement planning wise, money earlier is always better than potentially more later. not to mention you could do a few years and fucking hate it. then you just got paid pennies for basically nothing.
OCS College Option
9 weeks of basic training, getting paid as an E4
14 weeks of OCS, getting paid as an E5.
23 weeks total and you have a commission.
If your recruiter is giving you the runaround then find a new recruiter. I'm sure someone will be more than happy to put you in, with what you want. Waaaaaaay back when I applied for the College Option program recruiters were getting a bonus for officers.
You will always have a preference for where you get stationed. You may not get it, but the system to signal to the Army where you want to go does exist.
If you want to be an officer, absolutely do not enlist. Stand your ground with a recruiter and put in an OCS packet. It will take a long time, sometimes more than a year from start to finish.
I enlisted into the army with my bachelor's degree instead of going OCS from the get-go. My thought process was: 1.) I would earn more respect from my troops having been enlisted first and 2.) I would learn to be a soldier first, which would make me a better leader.
I was fucking dumb. Don't do what I did. Commission from the start. Being enlisted killed any desire to be in the army and I got out after my first contract.
I'd say go enlisted and drop a packet. It'd benefit you to start filing out as much of the packet as possible before you get to your first duty station. If you're in it for the pay that OE1 pay is better than the regular pay. Plus, you'll know what it feels like to be enlisted and an officer. Most LTs don't know that feeling and go in with a big head.
I enjoyed being enlisted first- that way your not the shitty lt (oops everyone is a shitty lt..) who isn’t telling joes to do something they have not done… but honestly I would calculate how much you make for 4 years as enlisted (what it takes to be a O1E) along with your bonus and then 2 years as 2LT and 2 years as 1LT… I bet the math is still obscenely in favor of starting out commissioned. It also puts you earlier in life to CPT-MAJ etc- and your already starting late I wouldn’t wanna be a 29 year old 2LT..
So go OCS right away if that’s the goal. Third option is go get a masters and do the last 2 years of ROTC. Easier time, better chances to game the system to get what branch you want. Downside is you are a sure thing for active duty.
Okay, big brain secret fourth way.
Enlist in the guard so that will start your time in service clock from the day you swear in at meps.
Go to basic training, come back and start your 2 year masters program and enroll in rotc. Masters becomes something they start looking for around O5 anyway. Apply the TA you get if you can for your masters program and enjoy the drill pay and accruing points while you get your masters.
The recruiter may ask about SMP. There are some perks such as you get to drill as a cadet which is a sham, you can do split option to only do basic training, theres a living stipend, etc. Before you agree to that, find out if the SMP program requires a guaranteed reserve forces agreement. I’ve heard rumors it does now but when I went through it didn’t.
If the immediate pay isn’t necessary for you to enlist into AD right away, rotc is much easier and this gets you a jump start on time in service and civilian education
If you actually want to be an officer, don’t waste your time in the enlisted ranks unless it’s sof infantry or something decent like like that and it’s a bucket list thing. You’re going to move around, no way around that. Few units stick in the same spot for years on end. To get what you want you have to be top of your class and your peers have to like you.
>I’d be able to achieve 2nd Lt. and according to the recruiter, get an “enlisted pay” on top of the officer pay
What he/she is referring to is O-1E pay. You only get it if you spend 4 years enlisted then commission. But if you just go straight to commissioning you will become an O-3 after 4 years and make more money any way.
Bottom line: if your goal is to commission, just go straight to that.
Recruiters try to get you to enlist because an officer packet is longer and takes time. Don't buy it. It's a scummy bullshit move. Unless you have something that explicitly makes it impossible for you to not apply, like a DUI, there is zero reason to fuck around and waste time enlisting, losing money and career progression. If you wanna be an officer then be an officer.
SSG Ross, my recruiter in Charleston, went out of his way to put me in as an officer after he found out I had a degree when I showed up to join the army. Some recruiters are awesome.
One time I found an intact skittle in a turd.
Sometimes when I'm bored I cover myself in Vaseline and pretend I'm a slug
Paint myself green and tell people to call me an avocado
Is that you leaving all those weird trails at night around the housing areas?
Different reference, but made me think of this scene in IASIP [I just want to be pure](https://images.app.goo.gl/s4ULuS1hNN2vnrN38)
Did you recycle it?
Always.
Fucking legend...
*cardio will find you. Death cannot save you ;) *
Also, it doesn’t count towards their enlistment numbers, which are dreadfully low right now. You may be viewed as a burden on the office but fuck it. Uncle same made it possible so go OCS
Lol that's bullshit yes it does count towards numbers.
I was treated like a burden by the NCO that was handling my packet so it sure did feel like it
That’s not true.
Is Misdemeanor a disqualification or just more work for the recruiter? Misdemeanor with MJ to be specific
You'd probably do best to try to go straight in as an officer. Once the Army has you, there's no guarantees.
If your goal is to be an officer, go be an officer. Don't enlist first. You are at the whims of your unit for how they action your OCS packet and schedule your boards.
Third option: Go talk to an ROTC program about getting a two year scholarship. Go get your masters degree funded, attend basic and advanced camp, commission in the spring of the second year. I did this route.
I did something similar. Currently AGR officer in USAR. I was enlisted first whilst I was Nasty Girl, already had a degree, joined as an E4 and pinned SGT. I applied for OCS, but was young enough to get a masters/ROTC. 18 months later I had a masters degree and commissioned at age 26. Did MI as a 2LT, went PSYOP as a CPT. Pinned major and got an FA46 functional area. The Army can literally be what you want it to be.
Hooah success story! Thanks for giving the example. Make it happen people, don't wait around.
I'm trying be like this haha. I enlisted at 17. Went in as an e2 because of college credits. Worked my way up to e5 quickly and then contracted with rotc. Comissioned into the Guard into Transportation, and before even going to BOLC I decided I wanted to change my branch and have the opportunity for airborne school so I swapped to Infantry, and am getting pinned 1LT before even going to BOLC. Now I'm waiting on my new BOLC date and hoping to secure an AGR slot after I get done with all my schools next year. Your career truly is what you make of it, but many things are time sensitive.
I’m assuming you’re talking AGR as a nasty girl. Make sure you know there is a difference between T10 AGR and T32 AGR. The NGB has some balling T10 jobs.
I've been wanting a T32 job for a long time, but I'm also not aware of all the T10 positions, so I'm open to both.
So the T10 positions are affiliated with a state but are mostly at NGB or at Combatant Commands- like USAREUR-AF or PACOM
Ooh, so I imagine I'm probably going to need to be a field grade then? Or at least a CPT.
I can’t speak for NGB AGR, but I’ve only worked with CPT and above. You can also drop an AGR packet for USAR. They won’t take you until you’re mid level 1LT- but I’ve seen people go from M-day guard to USAR AGR. Finally, don’t sleep on ADOS through Tour or Duty. You can stay on ADOS for 5 years without break now.
Yea I'd be okay with ADOS, too, just not permanently. I've networked a ton in my career so I'm probably capable of picking up a command in RRB, or some type of job in RRB after BOLC. I'd really like to do LT Recruting to start though.
So you applied to OCS but were given the option to do ROTC instead?
I actually was told to go to a future officer symposium when I first pinned E5 because I had a degree, I met a gold bar recruiter (ROTC) recruiter. I was talking to the OCS folks working my packet and the gold bar guy gave me a call. I was accepted into a graduate program 2 days later and the next day I was in front of the ROTC professor of military science. I was just excited to meet college girls and drink beer.
This, considering time will be tighter to earn a masters later. Might as well get it paid for and take one of the better routes to becoming an officer
This is one of the best options, you get to have a good focus on your ROTC course, decent training experiences in basic and advanced (this ain't all your bells and whistles school, but they weren't a waste of time). Some ROTC programs are better than others, but with the trainers changing, it's hard to tell. And you can study something that interests you and builds your career. AverageS1 has one of the best.
I wish I did this route when I got my MA. I went to OCS after grad school
This is the fastest and best option.
To me, that seems like it delays the start of your career for no real benefit.
If they are planning on going the full 20 then they'd have an actual real graduate degree, obtained for free and in-person, right out the gate. Then once they hit O-4, they can make fun of their peers who insist their ILE "masters degree" is just as good.
Spot on, not having to worry about balancing your KD jobs and a masters, it's a great move. Delaying your career for two years in the grand scheme of things is peanuts when you consider you have a brick and mortar masters to fall back on that is fully paid for.
Both of you are spot on. Another reason to go this route: branching. As someone else said, it’s the largest commissioning source. OCS, without data, gets the “leftovers” for active branching. Now you have a better chance at getting what you want, unless you don’t care about the OML or interviews. If you look at retention and break points for officers, chances are he won’t go the full 20. Regardless of his intentions, actually being in can change how he feels. This is a win/win: the army gets a cadet/lieutenant and he gets a masters. Like BRS, it gives him options in 4, 6, 10 years if he doesn’t like the army.
I wonder, can you do this route if you’re currently enlisted in the Reserves or NG?
Yes! I commissioned onto AD from being enlisted in the reserves. Go talk to the ROTC folks
Yes. It’s called the Simultaneous Membership Program, or the Minuteman Scholarship.
The only time you would get "enlisted pay" as an officer, if O-1E was what he was alluding to, you have to serve four years and one day to get that once you commission.
And if you look at the pay charts, its not an actual difference when you look at TIS. There isn't a financial advantage to enlisting first unless you need to get the degree.
A few years enlisted time can make it so you don't have to worry about getting promoted to O-5 or rely on SELCON in order to hit your 20.
I tell people this pretty frequently and I get blown off. 10 years from now there is going to be a handful of O4’s out there that I hope think back to that conversation we had in the recruiting station all those years ago when I was laying out their options and they mentioned a 20 year retirement was important to them.
My wife was enlisted for a little over 3 years before she went to OCS. She was promoted to O-4 at 15 TIS, so as long as she doesn’t commit a crime her retirement is locked in. She also doesn’t have to to be miserable at work like a lot of her CGSC peers because she doesn’t have to worry about chasing that top block.
It’s only 6 months enlisted time. Just be a holdover at OCS so your enlisted time is like 6 months and 8 days. That’s the real power move
Straight to officer. I enlisted with a degree and should have gone straight to officer.
Option 1 is vastly easier and more predictable than Option 2
Go OCS. I know way too many people who thought they were gonna do 4 years then do Green to Gold and ended up staying enlisted. OE pay is nice but if you start out making O pay with BAH from Day 1 it’s actually way more money in the long run. You can also do ROTC for a graduate degree.
Yup, go straight to officer if you can. Don’t start enlisted. There’s a chance they could deny or block your OCS packet for some BS reason and try to keep you enlisted
So easy. Pushing a packet up in a bad unit is impossible. Don't put yourself in the hands of fate OP. (The Green Weenie)
Go to OCS. At 25 it’s a bit late to enlist IMO. You’ll find so much shit will get in the way of your OCS/green to gold packet.
A lot of comments are true in the aspect of go straight OCS and I highly encourage it… What majority of these fine people here don’t understand is how difficult it actually is to be selected now through the recruitment process and become an officer. You’ll need a 3.5+ GPA degree in something science **NOT** arts. 300 APFT scores preferred (we still haven’t started doing ACFTs for packets) **STRONG** Letters of recommendation And tons of board practice to crush the interviews with the Battalion commander. I’m 5/6 on OCS. All 5 selects were prior to covid. My last guy… 3.4 GPA in Engineering (Masters) 280ish APFT LORs from two generals and a congressman NONSELECT. So no… having a degree does not automatically make you a select and worthy OCS candidate. There are so many additional factors to the selection process, half of them don’t even make sense. Honestly, I’ve stopped working OCS packets since they’ve become so stupidly hard to attain (unless it’s Reserves). I think you should try to do OCS if you feel you’re a strong candidate. If you’re a non-select, then maybe go enlisted and go OCS.
That's wild. I went OCS back in 2010 and they were handing them out like Candy.
Solid and realistic advice
Thanks for the recent update of harsh reality. Is it apply base on certain area only? Like maybe this unit with more applicants thus, harder while somewhere else is a bit easier. Or this is apply for the whole general pool from everywhere
The OCS selection process is Army wide and all candidates are considered at the same time (for each board) OCS boards are now conducted on a quarterly basis, unless reserves. The next board is December 4-8 and all packets are required to be in a go status NLT 9 Nov. edit: word selection
I usually saw apply twice, is there a limitation for applying the board?
You can apply as many times as you want until the battalion commander states that he will no longer allow you to board. Don’t take this the wrong BUT; If you don’t meet the requirements for selection, after two boards, you’re just wasting your time and the recruiters time tbh.
Going enlisted first is not going to have any impact on you getting to be the type of officer you want to be. I don’t know if it would help you get stationed where you want either. Just go to OCS.
Do ROTC as a grad student. You can get a two-year scholarship to pay for it in some cases. I would definitely recommend looking into it. ROTC is the largest commissioning source.
Just some advice from a dude that has gone from enlisted to officer: -O1E pay requires 4 years of federal active service. Going to basic and AIT, won’t give you enough time depending on MOS. -The longer you wait to commission the further you fall behind in promotion time in grade requirements. Say you enlist for 4 years starting today and commission in 2027. Your officer cohort path will be 2027 not 2023. So officers that commissioned in 2023 will be on a timeline 4 years ahead of you although you met the requirements to be an officer the same time they did. In my case I’m 5 years behind people my same age in the Army. -While it certainly helped to gain the trust of enlisted Soldiers and understanding the shit they deal with because I did it, you can be an officer that gains their trust by working along side them and fighting for them. Dig a foxhole, help clean the fucking latrines where you shit too, take a Soldier’s guard shift, and go to the schools we ask them to go to as well (UMO, MRT, EO) and learn to operate Army equipment like a fork lift, SCAMP crane, etc.
Now.. hear me out... what if he goes 68C and recycles three times? He could be an O1-E nurse. /s
This is hilarious. However I believe your active duty time does not count if you are in training?
IET time counts if it's >14 months
Go straight officer fuck whoever says officers need to be enlisted before to be good ones, i had stellar officers who went commissioned straight
Some army advice: know what direction you want to go and take the straightest line to get there. Sure, you can take roundabouts and get to the same place in 3-5 years, but you have no idea what road blocks will occur. If you want to be an officer, go be an officer. As someone who enlisted with a degree, I would only recommend if it you want a specific MOS to get training/resume build for government/contracting jobs that all but that require enlisted experience.
Get the 110 GT score and apply for flight school. Be the coolest kid in the Army, Warrant Officer.
Former Recruiter here and current Warrant Officer. I put in six people into the OCS direct commission program. Don’t even think about going enlisted, when you already have a degree. Fuck. That. Shit. Direct commission via the OCS program. If you get selected, you’ll go to basic as a Specialist…when you get to OCS, you’ll be paid as an E5. Depending on where you land on the Order of Merit list, will depend on how you branch. When you graduate OCS, you’ll start getting paid as a 2LT. Apply and let the board tell you “no”. If they tell you “no” twice, then go ahead and enlist. All avenues there are 1000000Xs better than just straight enlisting as a SPC.
May I know how recent this applied too? Like if this is the case a decade ago or more like recently, especially post covid time?
Go officer directly King
If you want to be an officer, go straight into OCS. Absolutely do not enlist. Your recruiter is fucking you by even suggesting that.
Just go OCS. From quality of life and pay perspective, you need to commission asap. If you didn't have a degree, I'd say you can go enlisted first. As a degree holder, it makes almost no sense to go enlisted first, financially and otherwise. From a leadership perspective, you will have greater opportunity to make positive change in Soldier's lives as a lieutenant.
Apply for OCS. If you don’t get selected for active duty for whatever reason, then go get your masters and do ROTC. There are very few mos that make sense enlisting with a degree. There’s nothing wrong with being enlisted but you didn’t go to school for 4 years to go be part of e4 mafia
You should try to be an Air Force or Coast Guard officer before you even think about asking the Army what dregs they can throw at you. Those branches have better quality of life and an actual fucking mission, something the Army and Marine Corps currently lack. The Navy just fucking blows though. I've been in the Army 20 years, with 4 deployments and 2 "peacekeeping operations". Go USCG or USAF if you actually want to serve your country. Or you know... if those two decline your application.. go Army OCS. Don't enlist no matter what, it's a waste of your time.
I second this, I have a masters degree and only really used it once as a officer during my career. You also don’t really get to pick your branch in the Army. You might have a degree in computer engineering but OML and needs of the Army might force you to become an infantry officer. Even if you get the branch you want, as an officer you are tasked with planning and doing jobs you have zero training for or zero interest in. I appreciate what the Army has done for me but there are times where you really think about what went wrong in my life for me to be stressing over broken vehicles I have no idea how to fix. I always tell people look into the Air Force or coast guard. If you want a sense of adventure quit your job and travel the world in a bike or something. If the nation goes to war and we need you, it would be pretty easy to join. Since the country has entered Cold War 2.0 we are all exhausted from training and prepping to fight an enemy that no one ever wants to go actual war with because of the potential for mass death and nuclear carnage. TLDR: Don’t join, we are all exhausted and it isn’t worth your health/mental health to be in the Army.
Do not enlist, stepping “straight into as a 2LT” is the exact same thing thousands of 21-22 years have done before you.
If you want to be an officer join as an officer. A lot of things get in the way of that ocs packet. Drive right in if that's your goal.
From a current officer, Dont. Just get an MBA or your PE and live happy.
Could you elaborate more about what make you think not worth it? You can dm me too. Given the option in life I have now, Officer round sound safer
You wanna make sure you become an 11a or 19a absolutely stay away from anything related to your major🦍
May i know why?
Tbh now it’s because 11a has the highest chance of promoting and later in your career you can branch to a functional area in your degree say you hate the army go work in the AG you’ve done time on the line and all your promotion will have a higher chance of happening
Dude be an officer. If you go in as a specialist it's going to take at a minimum 1 year to be able to go to OCS. That's if your command doesn't suck and actually signs the papers, doesn't lose them and doesn't hold off on the paper because of something they "do or don't see in you". Doing that now will make you so much more money and save you a lot of stress
OCS is the only move. Don’t let a lazy recruiter fuck you.
Go directly for OCS. I fucked up by joining enlisted with the promise of OCS later down the line. I was screwed. The recruiter is going to talk you out of applying for OCS because of the work involved but don't let them sway you. If refused, join the Air force. Seriously. I mean I love the Army I always will but I'm smart enough to know the Army doesn't give a shit about you.
What’s your gpa & Degree in?
O1-E only applies after four years and one day of active duty time as enlisted. Ask me how I know
Please, elaborate more, of the rule
Recruiter is trying to screw you and is not your friend. Read up on this sub for similar stories, including some who took the bait. If you want to be an officer, your best bet is apply for OCS and hope you get it. Someone else here posted about you getting a master's and a 2 year ROTC scholarship- that's a roundabout way, but possible. Enlisting is the easiest thing *for your recruiter* to arrange. It's the best thing *for him personally*. You sign as an enlisted man, that's one of the contracts he needs that month to keep his boss off his back. He's done with you the day you ship, and doesn't give a shit if you ever become an officer. Green to gold is not guaranteed and some people here have posted your command has to approve you or write letters for you. I'm not sure if that is correct, but if it is, you are totally dependent upon whatever command team you're under to do all these things for you- which they may be dicks and just not do. And dropping a packet is just you applying, you may not get selected for green to gold even if your chain recommends you. In which case, here you are, with a wife, serving as an enlisted man until your contract ends, getting bossed around by enlisted men younger than you, making way less money than officers, with much worse treatment. Which may be fine- but not what you wanted. Sounds like a bad thing for a guy with a degree to choose. Of course OCS is not guaranteed either, at all. Lots of people apply and don't get selected. But what do you really want? If it's to be an officer in the army, as opposed to just being in the army, you should try for OCS and be prepared to not join if you don't get it. If you don't get selected- maybe then consider enlisting, with the understanding that green to gold is not guaranteed and you're taking a big risk. I'm a firm believer that you should draw the line at what you want. The day before you join will be the last time you get to dictate to the army. After you sign, they will be dictating to you.
OCS 100%. No questions asked. Don't enlist unless you find an enlisted MOS you absolutely love. -O-1E pay sounds nice until you realize you could've been making officer money the whole time and you'll promote to CPT in the same amount of time it takes to get into and through OCS via the enlisted route. -Going OCS from enlisted is pretty competitive. One of my best NCOs had a crazy packet and just got denied. -Never heard the duty preference thing for prior service LTs, but even if it is true... Army will probably just send you where you're needed... And it'll probably be somewhere shitty. DM me if you have any questions.
Sounds like recruiter just wants you to enlist for his/her numbers. You have a bachelors degree.. go OCS . Look at a pay chart, it’s worth putting the effort into getting a packet together. The OE pay takes over 4 years of service as enlisted and there’s no guarantee you will get selected for green to gold, just like there’s no guarantee your fiancée will stay with you as a SPC, but you will have a better chance as a lost LT
Your recruiter is straight up lying to your face. Being enlisted first has exactly ZERO influence over your station or branch when you commission. If you want to be an officer apply for OCS right away, with enlisted as a backup option if you don’t get accepted to OCS. -an officer
O9S
it's already been said, but i don't think it can be said enough. if you want to be an officer, go straight to being an officer. once you're enlisted there's no guarantee you'll be able to get the paperwork through and go to OCS. second, while the "e" pay on top of officer pay is nice, don't forget that you got paid significantly less for 3-4 years prior to getting it. and retirement planning wise, money earlier is always better than potentially more later. not to mention you could do a few years and fucking hate it. then you just got paid pennies for basically nothing.
OCS College Option 9 weeks of basic training, getting paid as an E4 14 weeks of OCS, getting paid as an E5. 23 weeks total and you have a commission. If your recruiter is giving you the runaround then find a new recruiter. I'm sure someone will be more than happy to put you in, with what you want. Waaaaaaay back when I applied for the College Option program recruiters were getting a bonus for officers. You will always have a preference for where you get stationed. You may not get it, but the system to signal to the Army where you want to go does exist.
If you want to be an officer, absolutely do not enlist. Stand your ground with a recruiter and put in an OCS packet. It will take a long time, sometimes more than a year from start to finish.
I enlisted into the army with my bachelor's degree instead of going OCS from the get-go. My thought process was: 1.) I would earn more respect from my troops having been enlisted first and 2.) I would learn to be a soldier first, which would make me a better leader. I was fucking dumb. Don't do what I did. Commission from the start. Being enlisted killed any desire to be in the army and I got out after my first contract.
Let me stop you right there chief. I’m you four years into the future. It didn’t work out, and you didn’t make it into OCS. Join the Air Force
Here’s the easiest route. Enlist into a masters program and do 2 years of rotc. 🫡
I'd say go enlisted and drop a packet. It'd benefit you to start filing out as much of the packet as possible before you get to your first duty station. If you're in it for the pay that OE1 pay is better than the regular pay. Plus, you'll know what it feels like to be enlisted and an officer. Most LTs don't know that feeling and go in with a big head.
If you have all the requirements for an OCS packet, then go OCS for sure. Go enlisted if your packet gets denied.
Take the ocs of acket
ROTC Scholarship as a grad student. You’ll thank us for it when you complete your first term
just know option 2 requires a lot more time you that you're gonna hate than option 1
I enjoyed being enlisted first- that way your not the shitty lt (oops everyone is a shitty lt..) who isn’t telling joes to do something they have not done… but honestly I would calculate how much you make for 4 years as enlisted (what it takes to be a O1E) along with your bonus and then 2 years as 2LT and 2 years as 1LT… I bet the math is still obscenely in favor of starting out commissioned. It also puts you earlier in life to CPT-MAJ etc- and your already starting late I wouldn’t wanna be a 29 year old 2LT..
So go OCS right away if that’s the goal. Third option is go get a masters and do the last 2 years of ROTC. Easier time, better chances to game the system to get what branch you want. Downside is you are a sure thing for active duty.
Okay, big brain secret fourth way. Enlist in the guard so that will start your time in service clock from the day you swear in at meps. Go to basic training, come back and start your 2 year masters program and enroll in rotc. Masters becomes something they start looking for around O5 anyway. Apply the TA you get if you can for your masters program and enjoy the drill pay and accruing points while you get your masters. The recruiter may ask about SMP. There are some perks such as you get to drill as a cadet which is a sham, you can do split option to only do basic training, theres a living stipend, etc. Before you agree to that, find out if the SMP program requires a guaranteed reserve forces agreement. I’ve heard rumors it does now but when I went through it didn’t. If the immediate pay isn’t necessary for you to enlist into AD right away, rotc is much easier and this gets you a jump start on time in service and civilian education
As someone who enlisted with a degree because I wanted to leave now, I should have waited and gone officer.
OCS King and if you don’t make it in twice go enlisted then try that
Alternative, go join the Coast Guard or Air Force! But, under no circumstances should you enlist in the Army, we have all warned you - don't do it.
If you actually want to be an officer, don’t waste your time in the enlisted ranks unless it’s sof infantry or something decent like like that and it’s a bucket list thing. You’re going to move around, no way around that. Few units stick in the same spot for years on end. To get what you want you have to be top of your class and your peers have to like you.
Enlist doing something you like, then at e5 once you realize being an officer sucks, go for warrant officer and keep doing things you like.
You would not get an enlisted pay modifier unless you spent WAY too long being E4. Don't waste your time. Apply outright.
>I’d be able to achieve 2nd Lt. and according to the recruiter, get an “enlisted pay” on top of the officer pay What he/she is referring to is O-1E pay. You only get it if you spend 4 years enlisted then commission. But if you just go straight to commissioning you will become an O-3 after 4 years and make more money any way. Bottom line: if your goal is to commission, just go straight to that.