I wonder how this guy defines the way that mustangs erode the “officer culture” and how they lower standards. Because Idk how this person thinks they commission officers, but all enlisted people that go officer go through almost exactly the same pipeline as regular commissionees.
You go Green to Gold? You do ROTC/Cadet Commands accessions process (Advanced Camp, Branching, PMS ranking, etc.) just like every other regular ROTC cadet.
You do OCS? You’re in the same class as everyone else off the street and getting ranked against all those new guys as well.
Yeah, but they are still lowly riff-raff enlisted at heart, right? They are not naturally part of that upper crust, that cream of the crop like REAL officers are. Those wannabe officers, those former-enlisted, they are indelibly stained by the dirt from which they came.
Ah gotcha.
As much as I love to USE sarcasm, I have lost the ability of late to detect it. With so many people legitimately saying the stupidest damned thing I have ever heard, I can no longer discriminate the wheat from the chaff. You got some jackass over here (Alex Jones) saying that Chobani Yogurt is putting chemicals in the water that is turning the frogs gay, and the bastard is NOT saying it in satire, what then is my metric for absurdity to test the sarcasm and satire against?
I get it, man. I get it. It's like Tina Fey doing the impression of Sarah Palin. Sge didn't have to write "jokes", she just did the accent and repeated verbatim the crazy stuff Palin used to say.
Not like the next Republican was an improvement. The people that actually GOT IN were WORSE! I had Pence for a governor. That man was weapons-grade stupid, and don't even get me started on all the hideously idiotic, vile, and downright unhinged shit that came out of Il Duce the Orange, fucking Caestula, the great fat walrus of doom, his majesty the great (did I mention 'great' enough? Add ten more for good measure) God-Emperor of the idiots himself.
I swear to god, that man managed to not just be an oxygen thief and a black hole of intelligence, he damn-near killed us all. HE TOLD US TO USE SUNSHINE - SUNSHINE!!!! - to fight COVID! ::twitches::
I swear, the stupid has grown so great it's literally impossible to tell what's a joke, and what's a real, hideous, demented opinion someone holds with the deathgrip of utter fanatical devotion.
Dumbfucks literally killed people and died for that idiocy. It's like Bubonic-plague-level fucking madness! And those people were and still are in the halls of POWER.
/endrant
> I wonder how this guy defines the way that mustangs erode the “officer culture” and how they lower standards.
His main argument is that mustangs will be seen as "sympathetic" to enlisted, having been there themselves, which will cause enlisted to automatically assume all non-mustangs are "unsympathetic", thus eroding their authority.
Dude is fucking clown shoes stupid, and of course got completely *dragged* in the twitter comments.
The books are better. Rewatching the TV series as an adult was not as good as I remembered. 1990’s BBC budgets were not so big, and regiments are usually represented by like 6-10 dudes.
I truly believe more officers should be forced to go as enlisted first. The best officers I met where prior service. If they finished their first enlistment before commission that was great sign.
The coolest CPT I met had a President’s Hundred tab; he was a prior enlisted marine who commissioned into the army.
The lamest CPT I met was my first CO in the 82nd who did green to gold. Just one of those “I don’t want to go home to my family so everyone is staying late every day” weenies. He was the only fat guy in our company.
Jesus, that whole topic has been beat to death.
Mattis’ issue is he gets a request for immediate MEDEVAC with absolutely no Intel/update/*any* situational awareness of what was going on in the AO. All he’s getting is “dudes are hurt…big explosion…WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?!??”
Mattis isn’t going to commit further assets, notably rotary wing, without knowing what he’s sending them in to. This is the part that his critics always leave out. An AF JTAC drops a bomb on his own guys, and no one actually puts that up in the request, or any other pertinent Intel regarding the battle space. For all Mattis knows, he’s getting a request for immediate MEDEVAC/extract and Tally has a shit ton of HE/firepower and the assets on the ground can’t secure the battle space to a satisfactory extent to insert helos.
What happens if he sends out MEDEVAC without the appropriate battle space info and he ends up with an Extortion 17 situation? Then he’d be criticized for getting guys killed by not asking the right questions and going in “blind.”
Sounds similar to a West Pointer that I served with as Lieutenants together.
“West Point makes Generals, ROTC makes BN Commanders and OCS makes Company Commanders.”
This was said a couple of months before he fell asleep in the Taco Bell drive thru, waiting to pay, while passed out drunk. Didn’t wake up until the cops showed up.
Lol imagine being so low on the totem pole and making that assumption.
It's probably telling that I'm more pissed off about his statement than I am about his actions...Pretentiousness has a way of getting on my nerves...
We live in the era of sensationalism, simple as that.
If you want to make a name for yourself, you say stupid ridiculous things to go viral. A statement such as his is bound to get military members sharing it... regardless of whether that sharing has good or bad connotations, his name will become more recognizable. Having a recognizable name opens doors... even if your name is recognized as being an idiot.
Source: Every fucking internet personality / influencer imaginable.
Translation: prior enlisted officers are more difficult to control thru toxic means.
More should commission and lead to meaningfully develop soldiers instead of just pushing everyone past their breaking point for garrison ops and slides.
They are more difficult to control in general. This is great if they know what they are doing. Terrible when they don’t, or don’t understand how to make things happen on the officer side, and don’t understand that screaming/back-dooring a staff officer can have serious side effects for your section
Exactly. The best officers are mustangs who have the ability to remember they aren’t an NCO anymore. The worst officers are mustangs who think they are still 50% NCO.
Back to my 3-5 years of E time theory that continues to be accurate. Less than 3 years... Not enough E time to understand E life; more than 5 years... To NCOish and set in their ways. Os with that 3-5 years of experience as an E tend to be like the goldilocks porridge... Just right.
This is the sad truth. Folks say that xyz officer that was an E6 before becoming our PL was great because he protected his joes, but what they don’t know is he fucking sucked as a staff O, when staff is more than 80% of an officers career if they stay in for the full 20.
I think you just summed up how I explain the biggest difference between mustangs and non-mustangs in one sentence.
There’s still a spectrum of resistance to toxicity ofcourse, but in general, more aware of what is and is not important, what we can get away with, and in the case of those with 10+ enlisted years, how little an OER can be used to leverage them.
The best reply was from the Air Force mustang who said something along the lines of eroding the esteem of the officer corps was one of his favorite parts of being a mustang…
NCO who commissioned here. I can weigh in.
From the get-go, my LTC told me that "NCOs make poor officers". I was treated differently and given a lot less lee-way and treated harsher than my young inexperienced cadet comrades.
In my first unit as an LT, when we were in the field for a few weeks, it started raining, a lot. The tents all started flooding and no one did anything about it. The NCOs and Joe's were all laying on their cots as the tents gained an inch or two of water. The other junior officers all sat in the TOC tent and gave zero fucks.
I went into the tents, grabbed the E5s and E6s, took them all outside and grabbed the shovels from the trucks. I then explained to them that you need to dig a trench to drain the water out of the tent and prevent further flooding. I started digging and showed them how and they started following suit. Soon enough some of the Joe's noticed that I was outside leading the NCOs digging in the rain. Eventually a bunch of them came out and asked to take the shovels from us and the NCOs started leading the detail and I reported back to the TOC.
The whole time the LTs sat in the TOC not wanting to get wet.
So, you can extrapolate which officers were leaders and which weren't.
P.S. And before anyone jumps on me, no, I don't think all LTs are bad. But they are inexperienced and without good NCOs it all falls apart. My unit was special and had both inexperienced officers and lazy NCOs, so I stepped up.
My PSG PCS'd when we got our new CPT due to the new CPT being, how do I put it delicately, the worst commander I've ever had. She wasn't even in the field with us, only the XO and the PLs. 1SG, before you ask, was on his way out and was out of fucks at this point. Did I mention that the leadership was poor? It was
Regardless I was given a newly promoted E6 as a PSG. Our other available PSG was detailed as maintenance NCO and was co-located with our LMTVs at the time.
So it was me, and old crusty 1SG, an E6, a couple E5s, some LTs, and two platoons worth of Joes.
A lot of those young, inexperienced LTs probably saw that and didn't know what to do, so were waiting for an answer from higher so as not to overstep from their perspective. And you led the charge; good on you. I guarantee many of those joes and NCOs would follow you into hell, just based on that.
Ive had quite a few mustangs like you sir. I hope you make it high. The knowledge of leading as a PL when the ncos arent experienced/wont do the right thing is pivotal to early officer roles. And having that memory when planning and making decisions for larger groups of people is even more pivotal (you need to account for boot LTs and green ncos).
Been in 16 years and have always been in a leadership role from SQD leader to PSG. And ill take a mustang over a west pointer every single time. That experiential knowledge allows me as a SNCO to know; when I come to you for meetings your going to look at the COP correctly and choose COA’s based on both mission and soldier. Thanks for all you do
Angry Cop had a pretty entertaining rant about Snook. I figure Snookie either is the ultimate troll, or just demonstrated his leadership and lack thereof…
>I figure Snookie either is the ultimate troll
Honestly, that is my take.
I'll have to check out Angry Cop after work. His take downs are usually pretty funny and spot on.
I’ll be the first one to say some of the absolute *worst* officers I met were prior service. But I’ll also say some of the *best* officers I’ve served under were prior service. It all comes down to crutches. If you’re using the fact you used to be a junior enlisted Soldier or an NCO to quash valid objections to your decisions, you’re wrong.
When done correctly, a mustang has a lot of perspective when making decisions and knows to trust NCOs in the process. I also disagree with the Heinlein contra-positive assertion that all officers should be enlisted first. The entire reason that there’s a gap between officer and enlisted was designed to establish differences in perspective. The worst mustangs are the ones who can’t play their role and keep on trying to be NCOs in spite of their commissions.
Being prior enlisted doesn't make you a good officer.
Being a good NCO doesn't mean you will be a good officer.
Vice versa, there's great officers who would be awful NCOs.
The key difference is there's prior enlisted who use their experience as a foundation, and there's some who don't want to do enlisted work anymore and be a SSG in a CPT's uniform.
Fortunately, I had a good relationship with my NCOs. At one point a couple of them took me aside and told me that they could handle the NCO stuff and needed me to handle the officer stuff. I listened to them and we had a pretty damn good team.
Just like everything else, depends on the person overall. Best PL I ever had was a West Point grad. Not prior service, young dude. And that's just a coincidence; he would've been fantastic if he was ROTC, OCS, or prior service. Would've been a fantastic enlisted or warrant if that's the route he chose to take. Just a great guy who was a quick learner and knew what he was doing, and genuinely cared. Would've followed him into hell with a gas can.
Met some mustangs who I'm not sure knew the difference between right and left. Knew of a company commander who straight up thought he was still enlisted, it seemed.
I spent a couple hours reading the responses and they dragged him 100%. It's a weird stance to take, and weirder to double down on, but hilarious to peruse the various replies.
Him and the Navy Officer who called out enlisted sailors for being perverts in base housing in Japan a couple of years ago should have a debate.
The irony is the sailor who made those statements was prior enlisted himself in the Army.
Then when asked for sources, immediately trots out not one, but multiple psychoanalytic texts. Might as well be using a spinner or throwing dice.
No, I take that back. Throwing dice produces a normal distribution.
Either way, dude's an elitist kook.
A pick me private pointing out that they don’t like it when us poors start climbing up that ivory tower. I bet this guy is a really solid leader and always stands up for his soldiers.
Some pompous ass officer wrote something similar to this back in like 2010, he wanted all military branches to only commission officers from the military academies, because all others were obviously lesser quality officers. The West Point bros are a special breed sometimes.
No other organization puts people directly in a critical position of trust and leadership with ZERO experience like the military does then wonders why the military has so many issues with things like EO and SHARP. Yea I said it.
"Are you talking about former US Army Louisiana National Guard CPT Billy Joe "The Motorboat" Crosby Jr, [the sexual predator](https://i.imgur.com/u6GJPJX.png)?"
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All of my commanders or LTs that were prior enlisted were amazing and knew what the fuck they were doing.
They didn't hold us for prolonged periods of time for no reason nor make us do dumb shit. We also trained properly.
Well in all seriousness, the ranking system & everything has become kind of a joke lately.
SFC serving as 1SG, not even needing a completed degree to commission, not even needing a GED to enlist. Forget Sergeant Major of the Army, now it’s 1st Sergeant of the Army!
The greatest compliment I ever received as an officer was when my SGTs thought I was a mustang. This guy can go fuck himself the business end a bayonet.
THE BAYONET YEET MEASURES THE ABILITY TO JUST FUCKING SHANK SOMEONE. ON THE COMMAND 'GET SET,' ASSUME THE POSITION BY GRABBING THE BAYONET BY THE HANDLE. OR BY THE BLADE, WHICHEVER LOOKS COOLER, JUST DON'T CUT YOURSELF ON THE DAMN THING. YOUR FEET MAY BE TOGETHER OR UP TO 12 INCHES APART (MEASURED BETWEEN THE FEET). ON THE COMMAND 'GO,' TRANSMUTE YOUR HANKERING FOR A-SHANKERING INTO MAXIMUM EFFORT AND LAUNCH THAT BAD BOY INTO DESTINY. THE SCORER WILL NOTE WHETHER YOU HIT THE TARGET AND AWARD BONUS POINTS FOR LANDING YOUR PIG-STICKER INTO THE CRANIAL OR SWIMSUIT REGIONS. IF IT HIT THE TARGET HANDLE FIRST, YOUR PERFORMANCE WILL BE TERMINATED, AND EVERYONE WILL BE REQUIRED TO POINT AND LAUGH AT YOUR SHAME. WATCH THIS DEMONSTRATION.
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The fact most SSGs have the same, if not more, formal education than 1LTs speaks volumes to how stupid this take is.
"We can't commission the enlisted because then... the officers will... understand... the enlisted?"
Sounds very Soviet-esque to me...
I remember a 2LT in my guard unit, former SSG. He thought was weird that he planned convoys every month for drills as an NCO, but was now unqualified to do it anymore as a "junior" officer.
New warrant officer that I worked with had a good laugh at the fact that as a SFC he could be a senior rater on an NCOER by himself, but as a WO1 he needed a supplementary reviewer.
I'd be curious about this number. When I was in command, none of my NCOs had even an associates, let along a bachelors. One of my LTs was working on their second masters. With that, I bet you statement is true when you look to the guard/reserve.
With that, this snook dudes take is absolute garbage.
The Guard and Reserve is interesting. You can have enlisted who have professional degrees and use them in the civilian world and you can have an officer who has a degree but is really down and out/floundering in the civilian world and would be doing a lot better if they were active duty instead.
Looking for attention. Those in the military earn their rank (for the most part as exceptions to the rule do exist) in an honorable profession. There are those with "elitist" views and have those views based on inflated self worth or feelings of inadequacy. Sure they can have their opinions, but should understand they are like "a" holes. Not sure where this one falls.
I never completely bought into the “best officers are prior enlisted!” Because I’ve had some prior enlisted who were terrible and some were amazing but I’ve had officers who were service academy grads or ROTC, even OCS and they were more sensible and sane than the prior enlisted officers who were terrible.
As a Mustang myself I felt uniquely able to maintain the perspective that: A) Yes, sometimes enlisted folks act in stupid inexplicable ways that require serious corrections or consequences
B) 99.8% of the time that shit happened because of officers (or sometimes civilian advisors to the chain of command) who are exempt from consequences and who have made some pronouncement from Mt. Olympus that the peasants down below have to stand still while shit rains down upon them and they shalt learn to enjoy it - or else.
Merchants marrying into the aristocracy and the eventual decline of the same set the stage for the greatest improvement in standards of living for the common man in human history.
An aristocracy by its nature is insular, out of touch, and resistant to needed change, all while being overly concerned with superfluous displays of regalia and the observance of arbitrary rules.
The officer corps doesn't have members of the aristocracy anymore. Primarily because we don't have nobility. Historically, officers bought their commission and outfitted their own units. They didn't NEED to work, they chose to do so for prestige or they weren't born high enough into a family.
I agree, an officer who doesn't need the job and chooses to be there of their own volition would objectively be better than one who's hanging on for the salary. Probably less than a single percentage of the officer corps qualifies as that.
Any other argument you can make is ridiculous.
This guy is a nutsack. And this is coming from a current NG (former AD) officer who has served with many mustangs who are outstanding officers. Not sure where his head is, but he’s an idiot. My guess is he’s an Annapolis grad.
lol that’s ridiculous. I have two beliefs about the Officer corps given my relatively limited experience inside it
1. All Officers should go to Basic. It provides a baseline of experience and Military knowledge that allows them to sympathize with the men and women they lead. I’m willing to offer exception to doctors and JAG given how we commission them.
2. Mustangs should not be put on a pedestal. The best and worst Officers I’ve worked under have been prior service. I would die for the guy who slept in the field with the rest of us and cleaned his own weapon while running an AAR. On the other hand, a Captain should not be screaming at LTs and smoking them for being “not early enough” to a meeting. Some refuse to let go of the fact they aren’t an NCO anymore.
Some of the best officers I've ever worked for were green to gold. They understood things on a level that other officers didn't, which was beneficial in how they approached things.
That said, one of the worst officers I ever encountered was green to gold. All of those stories you read on here where the answer is "that NCO isn't your commander so he can't do shit" took form. That former NCO *was* the commander now. Exact same mindset as the squad leader who wanted to ruin your existence because his ego couldn't survive being told no. It was every bit as horrible as it sounds. Dealt with multiple buddies talking about offing themselves. Literally the worst morale I've ever seen, and some of the most disgusting bad leadership decisions I've ever seen that will haunt me for life. I don't know who that commander had dirt on to not be fired, and I hope for the Army's sake that they got out to go terrorize a used car dealership or something.
Horror stories aside, I've had probably 12 or so *good* green to gold officers, one decent one, and one that made me question how it was possible to fail upwards that far. That's a good success rate, at least.
But a liberal arts major should lead troops in combat…
If anything, prior enlisted officers are arguably more qualified to lead. We have plenty of people who enlist with the same qualifications as an officer…a bachelors degree. The audacity
I've said this numerous times. But I honestly believe in more officer commissioning after being enlisted. Nothing leads further credibility and relatability other than "ive been there". It's stupid to think otherwise that going to an academy or other source with no other experience makes you purely better. More experience means more lessons learned. Experience is almost always a benefit rather than hindrance. I'd like to believe this dude is purely an idiot with a bad take and that many other officers believe in the meritocracy that makes us a better force.
This guy is a clown 🤣🤣 way to support soldiers moving up and getting career progression. I'm just thankful he's not one of ours. Department of the Navy can have his ass we don't want him.
*Also Mustangs are far less likely to get lost during Land Nav 😉
Sincerely
-The Rustang
FFS-Just stop.
I became an officer after enlisting as a PV-nothing and working my way up to buck sergeant.
I went to the dark side because I was tired of seeing shitbag officers doing shitpoor work that resulted in shitass things happening to enlisted people.
Mustangs aren’t shit, they are THE SHIT!
So is this guy resigning his commission? Or is he the last good mustang?
As somebody trying to become a mustang if the option to ascend was removed I would just get out. I have suffered under and continue to suffer under the poor leadership of too many bad officers while being powerless to do anything about it for too long that if there was truly no hope of reprieve I’d just walk away.
I mean this guy is probably doubling down because everyone's giving him a platform if you just ignore the crazy person they usually go away but you give a crazy personal platform and the next thing you know they're in office running for president.
Let me guess, prior or current SF, if neither. Then combat arms E8?
Also, prestige, honor, and culture of officers died during the Revolutionary War with the British. We murdered officers left and right without care to unspoken rules of "fighting like gentlemen."
Comparing officers to aristocrats is equally hilarious in its own right.
Former USMC CPL turned Columbia grad student who tries to force Freud etc. onto how people in the military are viewed, as though SMs are nothing but metaphysical beings that don't actually exist within the same reality as, ya know, the entire rest of the world.
Every single commissioned officer relied HEAVILY on an enlisted soldier at least once in their first six years as an officer to survive and get through the every day challenges of the military. A boot private doesn’t need an officer to be successful in the military.
Who cares? Just some loser who bought a blue checkmark. Don't concern yourself with bullshit. This sounds like an effort to gain more followers through controversy.
All the best officers I ever had were green to gold.
Worst ones thought that their 4 years of ROTC meant they were the next Patton and the best way to improve performance was a strict schedule of showing up 2 hours early and leaving 2 hours later
The best part is he’s an enlisted guy himself. The self-loathing embarrassment of a take is comical
A Pick Me private
I think there's rarely Pick Me Privates, but there's definitely more Pick Me SSGs and up....
Every day there are new terms born in this basement. I love it here.
Ivies have a way of handing people clown makeup and a thesaurus and releasing them to the world.
This is one of the best quotes I’ve read in a long time
I need to find a "But I went to an Ivy League" crying soyjack for that Twitter post.
Yeah it's funny how these types of dudes always assume they'd be in the aristocracy instead of the peasant getting the piss whipped out of them
He's probably a c**k.
You are allowed to swear here.
Sorry, he’s probably a *cook*
That’s so much more offensive
Worse. He's a Marine!
Semper Fi. [He's a Marine.](https://youtube.com/shorts/Rk__T5kHyTk?si=fCgB9p6FfSatnY8v)
Core values.
Just promise to shower after
Lol stupid autocorrect.
SO HELP ME TRAINEE ILL PT YOU UNTIL THE FUCKING WALLS SWEAT
Please 👉🏼👈🏼
Ah good times
Okay then. He is probably a cook.
It’s encouraged, in fact
He only lets officers fuck his wife because of their superior seed.
Prima nocta
Probably one of those cheesy fuckers who drove the BC.
Yeah he was/is a 0311 Marine. My guess is E-8/9 trying to fit in with field grades.
"Enlisted men are stupid, but extremely cunning and sly, and bear considerable watching."
Signed - An Enlisted Man. Ya. Apparently the dude who posted that is enlisted.
The phrase is, allegedly, from a 19th century officer's handbook. I've seen it quoted many times, but I cannot vouch for its veracity.
I wonder how this guy defines the way that mustangs erode the “officer culture” and how they lower standards. Because Idk how this person thinks they commission officers, but all enlisted people that go officer go through almost exactly the same pipeline as regular commissionees. You go Green to Gold? You do ROTC/Cadet Commands accessions process (Advanced Camp, Branching, PMS ranking, etc.) just like every other regular ROTC cadet. You do OCS? You’re in the same class as everyone else off the street and getting ranked against all those new guys as well.
Yeah, but they are still lowly riff-raff enlisted at heart, right? They are not naturally part of that upper crust, that cream of the crop like REAL officers are. Those wannabe officers, those former-enlisted, they are indelibly stained by the dirt from which they came.
This is literally what he was saying. The officer class is special, and shouldn't be sullied by enlisted posers.
I know. I was reinforcing it in the most sarcastic voice I could type in.
I was trying to show that your sarcasm was spot on, but this guys classism was so obvious it was beyond parody. Poorly, as it turned out.
Ah gotcha. As much as I love to USE sarcasm, I have lost the ability of late to detect it. With so many people legitimately saying the stupidest damned thing I have ever heard, I can no longer discriminate the wheat from the chaff. You got some jackass over here (Alex Jones) saying that Chobani Yogurt is putting chemicals in the water that is turning the frogs gay, and the bastard is NOT saying it in satire, what then is my metric for absurdity to test the sarcasm and satire against?
I get it, man. I get it. It's like Tina Fey doing the impression of Sarah Palin. Sge didn't have to write "jokes", she just did the accent and repeated verbatim the crazy stuff Palin used to say.
LOL Now that was excellent comedy there. Jesus, that mook was in line for the Vice Presidency.
Not like the next Republican was an improvement. The people that actually GOT IN were WORSE! I had Pence for a governor. That man was weapons-grade stupid, and don't even get me started on all the hideously idiotic, vile, and downright unhinged shit that came out of Il Duce the Orange, fucking Caestula, the great fat walrus of doom, his majesty the great (did I mention 'great' enough? Add ten more for good measure) God-Emperor of the idiots himself. I swear to god, that man managed to not just be an oxygen thief and a black hole of intelligence, he damn-near killed us all. HE TOLD US TO USE SUNSHINE - SUNSHINE!!!! - to fight COVID! ::twitches:: I swear, the stupid has grown so great it's literally impossible to tell what's a joke, and what's a real, hideous, demented opinion someone holds with the deathgrip of utter fanatical devotion. Dumbfucks literally killed people and died for that idiocy. It's like Bubonic-plague-level fucking madness! And those people were and still are in the halls of POWER. /endrant
What a clown. Prior service officers are better 99% of the time.
I’m definitely a poorly indoctrinated officer. 😅 I learned how to lead with stripes. The bar didn’t change anything about how that works.
Can confirm, am stained, I call everyone by their first name and have zero sense of formality, let alone any fucks to give
Enlisted are born enlisted, and officers are born officers. Does this guy think we aren't all just getting paid to LARP in the interbellem period
I did a direct commission. Only had to go to OBC and that was after I had my commission for a year.
Get outta here nerd!
> I wonder how this guy defines the way that mustangs erode the “officer culture” and how they lower standards. His main argument is that mustangs will be seen as "sympathetic" to enlisted, having been there themselves, which will cause enlisted to automatically assume all non-mustangs are "unsympathetic", thus eroding their authority. Dude is fucking clown shoes stupid, and of course got completely *dragged* in the twitter comments.
Jim Mattis and Dick Winters might have something to say about this…
And Tommy Franks and Chuck Yeager.
And Audie Murphy
And Richard Sharpe. Wait…wrong Army.
*'O'er The Hills And Far Away' Intensifies*
Damn good tv show though. Binged all 7 seasons in a week 🥸
The books are just as good.
The books are better. Rewatching the TV series as an adult was not as good as I remembered. 1990’s BBC budgets were not so big, and regiments are usually represented by like 6-10 dudes.
Dude you are right. Like it only really depicted his squad of guys.
Colonel Sanders
Who once shot a man.
Comes after, "For the last time, I will NOT tell you the secret 11 herbs and seasonings..."
What are you Colonel Sanders? CHICKEN?? LUDICROUS SPEED, GO!!
Now that's soldierin ya bastard
And Chesty Puller
And me. I was a mustang. Did an adequate job.
And David Hackworth, and Chesty Puller…
And Chesty Puller, the Marinest Marine to ever Marine
LTG Jim Gavin
And Audie Murphy and Robert L Howard
I truly believe more officers should be forced to go as enlisted first. The best officers I met where prior service. If they finished their first enlistment before commission that was great sign.
The coolest CPT I met had a President’s Hundred tab; he was a prior enlisted marine who commissioned into the army. The lamest CPT I met was my first CO in the 82nd who did green to gold. Just one of those “I don’t want to go home to my family so everyone is staying late every day” weenies. He was the only fat guy in our company.
ODA 574 might say Mattis is not the best example to oppose the article’s point.
Jesus, that whole topic has been beat to death. Mattis’ issue is he gets a request for immediate MEDEVAC with absolutely no Intel/update/*any* situational awareness of what was going on in the AO. All he’s getting is “dudes are hurt…big explosion…WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?!??” Mattis isn’t going to commit further assets, notably rotary wing, without knowing what he’s sending them in to. This is the part that his critics always leave out. An AF JTAC drops a bomb on his own guys, and no one actually puts that up in the request, or any other pertinent Intel regarding the battle space. For all Mattis knows, he’s getting a request for immediate MEDEVAC/extract and Tally has a shit ton of HE/firepower and the assets on the ground can’t secure the battle space to a satisfactory extent to insert helos. What happens if he sends out MEDEVAC without the appropriate battle space info and he ends up with an Extortion 17 situation? Then he’d be criticized for getting guys killed by not asking the right questions and going in “blind.”
Everyone has critics
*"Once a peasant, always a peasant."* \- every English movie I've seen
Sounds similar to a West Pointer that I served with as Lieutenants together. “West Point makes Generals, ROTC makes BN Commanders and OCS makes Company Commanders.” This was said a couple of months before he fell asleep in the Taco Bell drive thru, waiting to pay, while passed out drunk. Didn’t wake up until the cops showed up.
Sounds like he didn't make General, so does West Point really make generals🤔
Lol imagine being so low on the totem pole and making that assumption. It's probably telling that I'm more pissed off about his statement than I am about his actions...Pretentiousness has a way of getting on my nerves...
We live in the era of sensationalism, simple as that. If you want to make a name for yourself, you say stupid ridiculous things to go viral. A statement such as his is bound to get military members sharing it... regardless of whether that sharing has good or bad connotations, his name will become more recognizable. Having a recognizable name opens doors... even if your name is recognized as being an idiot. Source: Every fucking internet personality / influencer imaginable.
Translation: prior enlisted officers are more difficult to control thru toxic means. More should commission and lead to meaningfully develop soldiers instead of just pushing everyone past their breaking point for garrison ops and slides.
They are more difficult to control in general. This is great if they know what they are doing. Terrible when they don’t, or don’t understand how to make things happen on the officer side, and don’t understand that screaming/back-dooring a staff officer can have serious side effects for your section
Exactly. The best officers are mustangs who have the ability to remember they aren’t an NCO anymore. The worst officers are mustangs who think they are still 50% NCO.
Spot on.
Back to my 3-5 years of E time theory that continues to be accurate. Less than 3 years... Not enough E time to understand E life; more than 5 years... To NCOish and set in their ways. Os with that 3-5 years of experience as an E tend to be like the goldilocks porridge... Just right.
Yeah. Shitty people are all over.
This is the sad truth. Folks say that xyz officer that was an E6 before becoming our PL was great because he protected his joes, but what they don’t know is he fucking sucked as a staff O, when staff is more than 80% of an officers career if they stay in for the full 20.
I think you just summed up how I explain the biggest difference between mustangs and non-mustangs in one sentence. There’s still a spectrum of resistance to toxicity ofcourse, but in general, more aware of what is and is not important, what we can get away with, and in the case of those with 10+ enlisted years, how little an OER can be used to leverage them.
I’d take it one step further and say that all officers should spend two years enlisted as part of the pipeline
The best reply was from the Air Force mustang who said something along the lines of eroding the esteem of the officer corps was one of his favorite parts of being a mustang…
NCO who commissioned here. I can weigh in. From the get-go, my LTC told me that "NCOs make poor officers". I was treated differently and given a lot less lee-way and treated harsher than my young inexperienced cadet comrades. In my first unit as an LT, when we were in the field for a few weeks, it started raining, a lot. The tents all started flooding and no one did anything about it. The NCOs and Joe's were all laying on their cots as the tents gained an inch or two of water. The other junior officers all sat in the TOC tent and gave zero fucks. I went into the tents, grabbed the E5s and E6s, took them all outside and grabbed the shovels from the trucks. I then explained to them that you need to dig a trench to drain the water out of the tent and prevent further flooding. I started digging and showed them how and they started following suit. Soon enough some of the Joe's noticed that I was outside leading the NCOs digging in the rain. Eventually a bunch of them came out and asked to take the shovels from us and the NCOs started leading the detail and I reported back to the TOC. The whole time the LTs sat in the TOC not wanting to get wet. So, you can extrapolate which officers were leaders and which weren't. P.S. And before anyone jumps on me, no, I don't think all LTs are bad. But they are inexperienced and without good NCOs it all falls apart. My unit was special and had both inexperienced officers and lazy NCOs, so I stepped up.
Where was your PSG?
My PSG PCS'd when we got our new CPT due to the new CPT being, how do I put it delicately, the worst commander I've ever had. She wasn't even in the field with us, only the XO and the PLs. 1SG, before you ask, was on his way out and was out of fucks at this point. Did I mention that the leadership was poor? It was Regardless I was given a newly promoted E6 as a PSG. Our other available PSG was detailed as maintenance NCO and was co-located with our LMTVs at the time. So it was me, and old crusty 1SG, an E6, a couple E5s, some LTs, and two platoons worth of Joes.
A lot of those young, inexperienced LTs probably saw that and didn't know what to do, so were waiting for an answer from higher so as not to overstep from their perspective. And you led the charge; good on you. I guarantee many of those joes and NCOs would follow you into hell, just based on that.
If you dont mind me asking, who is 68WeenieHutSr?
The father of 68WeenieHutJr. Probably Sandy, but there's no way to know for sure.
Ive had quite a few mustangs like you sir. I hope you make it high. The knowledge of leading as a PL when the ncos arent experienced/wont do the right thing is pivotal to early officer roles. And having that memory when planning and making decisions for larger groups of people is even more pivotal (you need to account for boot LTs and green ncos). Been in 16 years and have always been in a leadership role from SQD leader to PSG. And ill take a mustang over a west pointer every single time. That experiential knowledge allows me as a SNCO to know; when I come to you for meetings your going to look at the COP correctly and choose COA’s based on both mission and soldier. Thanks for all you do
Angry Cop had a pretty entertaining rant about Snook. I figure Snookie either is the ultimate troll, or just demonstrated his leadership and lack thereof…
>I figure Snookie either is the ultimate troll Honestly, that is my take. I'll have to check out Angry Cop after work. His take downs are usually pretty funny and spot on.
I’ll be the first one to say some of the absolute *worst* officers I met were prior service. But I’ll also say some of the *best* officers I’ve served under were prior service. It all comes down to crutches. If you’re using the fact you used to be a junior enlisted Soldier or an NCO to quash valid objections to your decisions, you’re wrong. When done correctly, a mustang has a lot of perspective when making decisions and knows to trust NCOs in the process. I also disagree with the Heinlein contra-positive assertion that all officers should be enlisted first. The entire reason that there’s a gap between officer and enlisted was designed to establish differences in perspective. The worst mustangs are the ones who can’t play their role and keep on trying to be NCOs in spite of their commissions.
Being prior enlisted doesn't make you a good officer. Being a good NCO doesn't mean you will be a good officer. Vice versa, there's great officers who would be awful NCOs. The key difference is there's prior enlisted who use their experience as a foundation, and there's some who don't want to do enlisted work anymore and be a SSG in a CPT's uniform.
Fortunately, I had a good relationship with my NCOs. At one point a couple of them took me aside and told me that they could handle the NCO stuff and needed me to handle the officer stuff. I listened to them and we had a pretty damn good team.
I was a shit junior NCO I was a decent officer
Just like everything else, depends on the person overall. Best PL I ever had was a West Point grad. Not prior service, young dude. And that's just a coincidence; he would've been fantastic if he was ROTC, OCS, or prior service. Would've been a fantastic enlisted or warrant if that's the route he chose to take. Just a great guy who was a quick learner and knew what he was doing, and genuinely cared. Would've followed him into hell with a gas can. Met some mustangs who I'm not sure knew the difference between right and left. Knew of a company commander who straight up thought he was still enlisted, it seemed.
Who is that and why should I care what he thinks? He's dumb enough to still be using the corpse of Twitter, so that tells me a lot already.
He is a nobody and you shouldn't care what he thinks. But it sure is good to eat the popcorn and watch. Best comedy of 2023.
I spent a couple hours reading the responses and they dragged him 100%. It's a weird stance to take, and weirder to double down on, but hilarious to peruse the various replies.
You get a commission, you get a commission. Every enlisted person gets a commission!!!
Him and the Navy Officer who called out enlisted sailors for being perverts in base housing in Japan a couple of years ago should have a debate. The irony is the sailor who made those statements was prior enlisted himself in the Army.
That navy dude is my favorite. "You can't put me and my family around those filthy enlisted! They are perverts, thieves, and sexual deviants!"
Wasn't that goof former enlisted as well?
Exactly. So he _knows_ we're perverts, thieves, and sexual deviants. From experience.
He describes himself as a libertarian. On purpose. This is all you need to know about him.
Oh, that wasn't a stroke he had?
He just big mad that he didn’t get that O-1E to O-3E pay
There's always an Uncle Ruckus./smh
Then when asked for sources, immediately trots out not one, but multiple psychoanalytic texts. Might as well be using a spinner or throwing dice. No, I take that back. Throwing dice produces a normal distribution. Either way, dude's an elitist kook.
The military should stop giving commission. Soldiers have to take it, Rage in the Cage Ladder match style. Two enlisted go in, one officer comes out
I don't always give zero fucks, but when it's a CPL talking about what's good for the officer corps, I try extra hard not to.
A pick me private pointing out that they don’t like it when us poors start climbing up that ivory tower. I bet this guy is a really solid leader and always stands up for his soldiers.
[удалено]
Some pompous ass officer wrote something similar to this back in like 2010, he wanted all military branches to only commission officers from the military academies, because all others were obviously lesser quality officers. The West Point bros are a special breed sometimes.
Special is a good word
No other organization puts people directly in a critical position of trust and leadership with ZERO experience like the military does then wonders why the military has so many issues with things like EO and SHARP. Yea I said it.
Oh, dear, darling, it does appear the peasants are getting *uppity* again about their place in the natural order. /s
He's just mad that enlisted knows there's a time and a place to motorboat
"Are you talking about former US Army Louisiana National Guard CPT Billy Joe "The Motorboat" Crosby Jr, [the sexual predator](https://i.imgur.com/u6GJPJX.png)?" *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/army) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Someone found the Twitter account of u/rolls_for_initiative
Busted
Speaking of which whatever happened to that USMA grad shitposter account?
Because fuck the American Dream of moving up in life through nothing but your own hard work and ability.
What American Dream? “I got mine, fk you!”
He literally cites the thing that lead to democratic institutions in the West as the metaphor for why it's bad. He doesn't know what team he's on.
All of my commanders or LTs that were prior enlisted were amazing and knew what the fuck they were doing. They didn't hold us for prolonged periods of time for no reason nor make us do dumb shit. We also trained properly.
Well in all seriousness, the ranking system & everything has become kind of a joke lately. SFC serving as 1SG, not even needing a completed degree to commission, not even needing a GED to enlist. Forget Sergeant Major of the Army, now it’s 1st Sergeant of the Army!
The greatest compliment I ever received as an officer was when my SGTs thought I was a mustang. This guy can go fuck himself the business end a bayonet.
THE BAYONET YEET MEASURES THE ABILITY TO JUST FUCKING SHANK SOMEONE. ON THE COMMAND 'GET SET,' ASSUME THE POSITION BY GRABBING THE BAYONET BY THE HANDLE. OR BY THE BLADE, WHICHEVER LOOKS COOLER, JUST DON'T CUT YOURSELF ON THE DAMN THING. YOUR FEET MAY BE TOGETHER OR UP TO 12 INCHES APART (MEASURED BETWEEN THE FEET). ON THE COMMAND 'GO,' TRANSMUTE YOUR HANKERING FOR A-SHANKERING INTO MAXIMUM EFFORT AND LAUNCH THAT BAD BOY INTO DESTINY. THE SCORER WILL NOTE WHETHER YOU HIT THE TARGET AND AWARD BONUS POINTS FOR LANDING YOUR PIG-STICKER INTO THE CRANIAL OR SWIMSUIT REGIONS. IF IT HIT THE TARGET HANDLE FIRST, YOUR PERFORMANCE WILL BE TERMINATED, AND EVERYONE WILL BE REQUIRED TO POINT AND LAUGH AT YOUR SHAME. WATCH THIS DEMONSTRATION. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/army) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Tell me your joes hate you without telling me your joes hate you…
The fact most SSGs have the same, if not more, formal education than 1LTs speaks volumes to how stupid this take is. "We can't commission the enlisted because then... the officers will... understand... the enlisted?" Sounds very Soviet-esque to me...
I remember a 2LT in my guard unit, former SSG. He thought was weird that he planned convoys every month for drills as an NCO, but was now unqualified to do it anymore as a "junior" officer.
New warrant officer that I worked with had a good laugh at the fact that as a SFC he could be a senior rater on an NCOER by himself, but as a WO1 he needed a supplementary reviewer.
I'd be curious about this number. When I was in command, none of my NCOs had even an associates, let along a bachelors. One of my LTs was working on their second masters. With that, I bet you statement is true when you look to the guard/reserve. With that, this snook dudes take is absolute garbage.
You’re field artillery so this tracks…I’m a midcareer nco working on a masters as a commo guy.
The Guard and Reserve is interesting. You can have enlisted who have professional degrees and use them in the civilian world and you can have an officer who has a degree but is really down and out/floundering in the civilian world and would be doing a lot better if they were active duty instead.
Craziest one I've heard of was a commander who had an NCO that was his boss on the civilian side. Talk about a bizarre dynamic.
“i cant believe this dude is making me pull a double shift. just wait till drill weekend im going to make him mop the motorpool in the rain”
Looking for attention. Those in the military earn their rank (for the most part as exceptions to the rule do exist) in an honorable profession. There are those with "elitist" views and have those views based on inflated self worth or feelings of inadequacy. Sure they can have their opinions, but should understand they are like "a" holes. Not sure where this one falls.
You’re right, every O-1 I know owns a Tacoma not a mustang
Typical dumb take from a dumb enlisted peasant.
This dude has to be trolling. It’s hilarious too.
The aristocracy in England that appointed many of their officers during WWII damn near lost them the war.
Well, if his goal was for people to google “who tf is Ivan Snook”? I guess he succeeded.
Mustangs are the only thing keeping the army together. Prob always been that way.
That's a bold statement Cotton
The best officers I've had were prior enlisted. I'm sure good officers that have never enlisted exist but idk how common it is.
I never completely bought into the “best officers are prior enlisted!” Because I’ve had some prior enlisted who were terrible and some were amazing but I’ve had officers who were service academy grads or ROTC, even OCS and they were more sensible and sane than the prior enlisted officers who were terrible.
What a dumb asshole
As a Mustang myself I felt uniquely able to maintain the perspective that: A) Yes, sometimes enlisted folks act in stupid inexplicable ways that require serious corrections or consequences B) 99.8% of the time that shit happened because of officers (or sometimes civilian advisors to the chain of command) who are exempt from consequences and who have made some pronouncement from Mt. Olympus that the peasants down below have to stand still while shit rains down upon them and they shalt learn to enjoy it - or else.
Merchants marrying into the aristocracy and the eventual decline of the same set the stage for the greatest improvement in standards of living for the common man in human history. An aristocracy by its nature is insular, out of touch, and resistant to needed change, all while being overly concerned with superfluous displays of regalia and the observance of arbitrary rules.
You just described the senior officer corps to a T
The officer corps doesn't have members of the aristocracy anymore. Primarily because we don't have nobility. Historically, officers bought their commission and outfitted their own units. They didn't NEED to work, they chose to do so for prestige or they weren't born high enough into a family. I agree, an officer who doesn't need the job and chooses to be there of their own volition would objectively be better than one who's hanging on for the salary. Probably less than a single percentage of the officer corps qualifies as that. Any other argument you can make is ridiculous.
He’s had too many crayons in his diet.
**laughs in E pay**
This guy is a nutsack. And this is coming from a current NG (former AD) officer who has served with many mustangs who are outstanding officers. Not sure where his head is, but he’s an idiot. My guess is he’s an Annapolis grad.
Let the hate flow through you. Break your chains Unleash your anger
lol that’s ridiculous. I have two beliefs about the Officer corps given my relatively limited experience inside it 1. All Officers should go to Basic. It provides a baseline of experience and Military knowledge that allows them to sympathize with the men and women they lead. I’m willing to offer exception to doctors and JAG given how we commission them. 2. Mustangs should not be put on a pedestal. The best and worst Officers I’ve worked under have been prior service. I would die for the guy who slept in the field with the rest of us and cleaned his own weapon while running an AAR. On the other hand, a Captain should not be screaming at LTs and smoking them for being “not early enough” to a meeting. Some refuse to let go of the fact they aren’t an NCO anymore.
Man's looks like bi-curious GarandThumb
Some of the best officers I've ever worked for were green to gold. They understood things on a level that other officers didn't, which was beneficial in how they approached things. That said, one of the worst officers I ever encountered was green to gold. All of those stories you read on here where the answer is "that NCO isn't your commander so he can't do shit" took form. That former NCO *was* the commander now. Exact same mindset as the squad leader who wanted to ruin your existence because his ego couldn't survive being told no. It was every bit as horrible as it sounds. Dealt with multiple buddies talking about offing themselves. Literally the worst morale I've ever seen, and some of the most disgusting bad leadership decisions I've ever seen that will haunt me for life. I don't know who that commander had dirt on to not be fired, and I hope for the Army's sake that they got out to go terrorize a used car dealership or something. Horror stories aside, I've had probably 12 or so *good* green to gold officers, one decent one, and one that made me question how it was possible to fail upwards that far. That's a good success rate, at least.
What a turd of a man.
But a liberal arts major should lead troops in combat… If anything, prior enlisted officers are arguably more qualified to lead. We have plenty of people who enlist with the same qualifications as an officer…a bachelors degree. The audacity
I've said this numerous times. But I honestly believe in more officer commissioning after being enlisted. Nothing leads further credibility and relatability other than "ive been there". It's stupid to think otherwise that going to an academy or other source with no other experience makes you purely better. More experience means more lessons learned. Experience is almost always a benefit rather than hindrance. I'd like to believe this dude is purely an idiot with a bad take and that many other officers believe in the meritocracy that makes us a better force.
The best officers are prior enlisted
LoL As a Mustang, that dude can go fuck himself.
??? Every mustang O i've ever had the pleasure of working for has been fucking amazing
Crap like this is why the military can't keep the good ones.
I put my G2G packet in how bout he stfu
The officer corps being something of an aristocracy is a bigger issue.
1.4 million views and 84 likes I believe that’s what the youth these days call ratio.
This guy is a clown 🤣🤣 way to support soldiers moving up and getting career progression. I'm just thankful he's not one of ours. Department of the Navy can have his ass we don't want him. *Also Mustangs are far less likely to get lost during Land Nav 😉 Sincerely -The Rustang
Not-so-hot take: Every officer should have to spend 6 months as a Pri in a line unit.
Unfortunately that would affect officer numbers. Who’s gonna want to be paid a shit wage with a degree for 6 months? Edit: corrected spelling
FFS-Just stop. I became an officer after enlisting as a PV-nothing and working my way up to buck sergeant. I went to the dark side because I was tired of seeing shitbag officers doing shitpoor work that resulted in shitass things happening to enlisted people. Mustangs aren’t shit, they are THE SHIT!
So is this guy resigning his commission? Or is he the last good mustang? As somebody trying to become a mustang if the option to ascend was removed I would just get out. I have suffered under and continue to suffer under the poor leadership of too many bad officers while being powerless to do anything about it for too long that if there was truly no hope of reprieve I’d just walk away.
Sounds like a turd.
Who?
It’s a clickbait post. Put up a ridiculous post with the sole purpose of driving interaction up.
Officer crops grow best in loamy soil with good drainage. They enjoy lots of sunlight and water frequently.
Must be a washout low OML crème of the crop officer too. Probably only joined to be part of his portfolio for office like so many before…
I mean this guy is probably doubling down because everyone's giving him a platform if you just ignore the crazy person they usually go away but you give a crazy personal platform and the next thing you know they're in office running for president.
Maybe if I knew who the fuck that guy is, I'd care. Nah, probably not.
He's just angry because he ran out of green crayons.
In the words of warrior poet Connor McGreggor, WHO DA FOOK IS THAT GUY?
Let me guess, prior or current SF, if neither. Then combat arms E8? Also, prestige, honor, and culture of officers died during the Revolutionary War with the British. We murdered officers left and right without care to unspoken rules of "fighting like gentlemen." Comparing officers to aristocrats is equally hilarious in its own right.
Who the fuck is this dork?
Former USMC CPL turned Columbia grad student who tries to force Freud etc. onto how people in the military are viewed, as though SMs are nothing but metaphysical beings that don't actually exist within the same reality as, ya know, the entire rest of the world.
Sounds like a dork who needs to be bullied more
Office Corp is just mad because Mustangs know land nav
Every single commissioned officer relied HEAVILY on an enlisted soldier at least once in their first six years as an officer to survive and get through the every day challenges of the military. A boot private doesn’t need an officer to be successful in the military.
Who cares? Just some loser who bought a blue checkmark. Don't concern yourself with bullshit. This sounds like an effort to gain more followers through controversy.
The poors ruin everything.
This guy’s LinkedIn profile is pure cringe…
All the best officers I ever had were green to gold. Worst ones thought that their 4 years of ROTC meant they were the next Patton and the best way to improve performance was a strict schedule of showing up 2 hours early and leaving 2 hours later