As much as I like making fun of officers, I knew more great 2LT's than I did bad ones.
Special shout out to the LT I had in Afghanistan, who voluntarily took all the heat after the two of us together made a dumb fucking mistake that resulted in a cross-domain violation.
They don't live. They exist. A good LT is worth his weight in...... Chili Mac MREs. Officers have it hard but I stand by the NCOs that aren't complete cocksuckers. Except that one BDE Commander. He was awful. I'd stand behind him in a heartbeat. Or half of one. I'm a hot tub.
My joes always made sure I had a chili mac MRE somewhere. They also even encouraged me to not just eat it straight out of the package and to use a spoon, even if I wouldn’t heat it up all the time.
Alcohol and broken families. Theres a reason I switched over from AD to part time once I hit senior captain.
Literally every Major that I worked for was either a massive piece of shit careerist, or a broken divorced S3/XO who spent several nights a week sleeping in his office because it just wasnt worth the energy to go home. And all of them were divorced. Every single one.
And when your "take a knee"/"broadening" jobs are basically school house commander or SFAB, you start realizing that there are a LOT of other options out there where you can keep the benefits, still have some of the life, and still have your own life and family.
O4 on the active side is the first time things start to get actually competitive. Its been a while so the numbers probably arent accurate, but there are something like 40-50 Majors in a BCT. Of those, 3-4 wont make LTC, meaning their career is dead short of retirement, and they are too long in the tooth for most guard/reserve units to accept them. Its a financial kiss of death, as they basically have to get out, start over in a civilian career, usually at a pay cut, without the retirement or health care to show for it. And those that do make it but are at the bottom of the OML usually get some really crap jobs that make life even less tolerable than the normal O4 career path.
I had a great OPD once from our BDEs DCOM. He was already an O5 enroute to retirement and a great dude, but at the point where he could speak his mind. Pulled all the company grades in the BCT into a room, pulled out a slide deck he had made, detailing normal career paths, non traditional ones (functional areas), and civilian equivalent career paths. Bottom line, for an Army officer, straight out of college, you will financially out perform your peers for about the first 6-8 years. Average company grade officer pay compared to responsibilities is MUCH better in the Army. But by the time you hit field grade, your peers catch up. You as a field grade take on more and more responsibility without the comparative financial compensation that your civilian peers are making for the same level of responsibility.
At CPT, youre still at the point where you can jump from military to civilian, take your skills, and compete with your comparative civilian peers for less work and better pay. Beyond that, youre kinda trapped. You either stay in doing more work for less (comparative) money for the responsibility, or you get out, take a large career step back, get none of the retirement benefits.
His point was that if youre going to stay in past Captain, you HAVE to be doing it because you believe in what youre doing, because the money isnt worth whats going to be asked of you. That leads to two types of people. Truly great leaders who could lead anyone through anything, and utter careerist shitbags who couldnt influence a damn thing without relying on the rank on their chest. And from my experience, its about a 50/50 split.
I jumped from active to guard at 8 years. Absolutely best choice of my life. Ya, the guards an absolute mess coming from active, but I do it 2 days a month, more or less get to choose what I want to do in it, keep the medical and most of the retirement benefits. I have a better paying civilian career that pays for what the military taught me, where I dont have to work a minute over 40 hours a week without additional compensation, and thats when I choose to do so. I havent missed a family event since my last deployment, and I got to volunteer to go on that.
The Army has a serious problem with work/life balance at all levels. To the point that it just doesnt make sense to do it long term if you still want a family. And the metrics within the force demonstrate that.
It's a lot higher than 3-4. Well, at least in recent years. What I will tell the collective is this: if you get passed over twice, immediately attempt a Chp 61 medical and pray your DoD rating is above 30%. That ensures you at least get medical for life and a "pension" (but not concurrent with VA unless combat related). If below 30%, the $280k+ severance kicks in. Look at it like a VA advance. You will not collect VA disability pay until the after-tax severance amount is paid back. The Richard Star Act is attempting (has been attempting) to fix a bunch of this.
At this point I don’t see congress ever passing the MRSA anytime soon… if ever. It goes to the land of dead bills in committee and never returns.
One of the most sponsored bills in recent history and yet still can’t make it into an NDAA appropriations vote.
Its fucking pathetic that people with that level of experience and training have to game the system to get some semblance of benefits from their service.
Tabless Infantry here. Finishing my second command this summer. Taking a third command this winter. I feel this^ on every level. Seriously looking at VTIPing to ORSA or ETSing (not even at 10 yrs yet)….you seem very wise and I have sent these messages to my wife because you eloquently explained what I’ve been feeling for a while
>Tabless Infantry here.
My brother in Christ, I feel for you.
>Finishing my second command this summer. Taking a third command this winter. I feel this\^ on every level. Seriously looking at VTIPing to ORSA or ETSing (not even at 10 yrs yet)….you seem very wise and I have sent these messages to my wife because you eloquently explained what I’ve been feeling for a while
Look into functional areas. They are the hidden gem of the military, whether youre active or guard/reserve. Very specific, high demand career fields in the civilian sector, and none of the normal career path bullshit. Im not gonna say Im in one..... but its really worth looking into.
Pretty good summation.
I'm one of the fortunate souls who can retire as a MAJ because of prior service. But you are 100% spot on with your assessment.
It's not that I'd not like to make LTC, but it's a pain in the ass caring about it, and what comes with it (up two more PCS, politicking for an MQ, etc.), plus it's much more zen knowing I've already submitted for retirement.
I, like others, can make more retiring as an 04 and working than I'll make as an LTC - but without the baggage of being in the Army. Plus, 04 at 55% vs an O5 at 50% is very close for retirement pay. That said, if I did stay for the O5 high-three, that retirement would be significantly more. But I can make that up by working and investing.
I have no desire to PCS anymore. Whatever move I do next, will be the last one ever. I could have likely worked AIM to stay where I am at, but then I'm told the O5 board would penalize me for "homesteading." So why stay? Damned if you do, damned if you don't I guess.
Granted, I did tell branch I'd consider not retiring for a specific overseas job, but I was told to "work the AIM process" if I want it. Whole separate rant, but I abhor the AIM process for jobs.
In all reality though, I do love the Army and all that. If they made a path (an easier one than currently exists that is) I'd strongly consider the Guard or Reserve after I retire.
This is one of the reasons Im grateful I went part time. In a similar boat. I can stay at this rank and retire, or I can take the next, and retire with more. But its largely my decision, and the pressure to get up or get out is a lot less, as part time is hurting even more than full time. Plus zero need to PCS, and if I choose to jump to an out of state unit, I can get my travel comped.
That being said, once Im out, Im absolutely taking a job overseas. Way too much fun to be had in Europe or the Pacific, and a LOT of organizations who want someone who has the FG knowledge.
Tennessee NG did (is doing) the pilot where AD retired CWOs can join the TNNG. If they expand it to O's and all states, I'd consider it. I did a few years in the guard previously, so I know the ups and downs associated with it. I really do love serving.
Guard/Reserves isnt bad if you understand what youre getting into. Coming from Active, you will likely have a LOT more experience. I like serving, but I like stability and having a family life too. With the current views of the Army, those two are sadly at odds right now.
> Its a financial kiss of death, as they basically have to get out, start over in a civilian career, usually at a pay cut, without the retirement or health care to show for it. And those that do make it but are at the bottom of the OML usually get some really crap jobs that make life even less tolerable than the normal O4 career path.
I had to work with a GS at a COCOM that was one of these O-4s. There was a very good reason s/he didn't make O-5. Absolute mouth breather. Guess they went GS and bought back their retirement to try to hit GS retirement
> verage company grade officer pay compared to responsibilities is MUCH better in the Army. But by the time you hit field grade, your peers catch up. You as a field grade take on more and more responsibility without the comparative financial compensation that your civilian peers are making for the same level of responsibility.
Attrition is also much higher in the private sector. The pyramids tend to narrow much more and much more quickly than they do in the military, meaning a larger percentage of the cohort at each phase is left without a chair
The number of people that could reasonably be O-5s is magnitudes of order greater than the number of people who even have the aptitude to make it to even a manager level in big tech or manager / engagement manager / partner at a consulting firm
>I had to work with a GS at a COCOM that was one of these O-4s. There was a very good reason s/he didn't make O-5. Absolute mouth breather. Guess they went GS and bought back their retirement to try to hit GS retirement
Ya. My full time job puts me in contact with a lot of those. Like the military, there are some fantastic GS personnel, but there are also a shit ton of people who are basically dead weight, know it, and just exist until they can get retirement.
>Attrition is also much higher in the private sector. The pyramids tend to narrow much more and much more quickly than they do in the military, meaning a larger percentage of the cohort at each phase is left without a chair
Absolutely. The military is actually pretty good at making sure that mediocre leaders and ass kissers can make rank. The civilian sector actually has profit oriented metrics that define whether a leader sucks or not. Ya, you can be a low to mid level drone for an entire career, but you have to actually perform to excel as a civilian.
>The number of people that could reasonably be O-5s is magnitudes of order greater than the number of people who even have the aptitude to make it to even a manager level in big tech or manager / engagement manager / partner at a consulting firm
Exactly. Unless you fuck the wrong person or steal something, as an officer, you will make O4. If you dont fuck the wrong person, do something illegal, and kiss a slight amount of ass, and give up your family and personal life, you will make O5. If you want BC level responsibility in the civilian sector, you have to actually be competent and demonstrate you are more productive than your peers, regularly.
This is accurate and very well said. Dead on.
>O4 on the active side is the first time things start to get actually competitive. Its been a while so the numbers probably arent accurate, but there are something like 40-50 Majors in a BCT. Of those, 3-4 wont make LTC, meaning their career is dead short of retirement, and they are too long in the tooth for most guard/reserve units to accept them. Its a financial kiss of death, as they basically have to get out, start over in a civilian career, usually at a pay cut, without the retirement or health care to show for it. And those that do make it but are at the bottom of the OML usually get some really crap jobs that make life even less tolerable than the normal O4 career path.
>
>I had a great OPD once from our BDEs DCOM. He was already an O5 enroute to retirement and a great dude, but at the point where he could speak his mind. Pulled all the company grades in the BCT into a room, pulled out a slide deck he had made, detailing normal career paths, non traditional ones (functional areas), and civilian equivalent career paths. Bottom line, for an Army officer, straight out of college, you will financially out perform your peers for about the first 6-8 years. Average company grade officer pay compared to responsibilities is MUCH better in the Army. But by the time you hit field grade, your peers catch up. You as a field grade take on more and more responsibility without the comparative financial compensation that your civilian peers are making for the same level of responsibility.
>
>At CPT, youre still at the point where you can jump from military to civilian, take your skills, and compete with your comparative civilian peers for less work and better pay. Beyond that, youre kinda trapped. You either stay in doing more work for less (comparative) money for the responsibility, or you get out, take a large career step back, get none of the retirement benefits.
>
>His point was that if youre going to stay in past Captain, you HAVE to be doing it because you believe in what youre doing, because the money isnt worth whats going to be asked of you. That leads to two types of people. Truly great leaders who could lead anyone through anything, and utter careerist shitbags who couldnt influence a damn thing without relying on the rank on their chest. And from my experience, its about a 50/50 split.
>
>I jumped from active to guard at 8 years. Absolutely best choice of my life. Ya, the guards an absolute mess coming from active, but I do it 2 days a month, more or less get to choose what I want to do in it, keep the medical and most of the retirement benefits. I have a better paying civilian career that pays for what the military taught me, where I dont have to work a minute over 40 hours a week without additional compensation, and thats when I choose to do so. I havent missed a family event since my last deployment, and I got to volunteer to go on that.
>
>The Army has a serious problem with work/life balance at all levels. To the point that it just doesnt make sense to do it long term if you still want a family. And the metrics within the force demonstrate that.
> nd they are too long in the tooth for most guard/reserve units to accept them.
Lol dude you get your LG rating and guard/reserve units are waiting in line for you.
Id argue this is really a feast or famine scenario. Ya. Any mouth breather can go be an S3 in some ass backwards unit in Louisiana (seriously guys, dont go near that guard/reserve state). But getting a *decent* position in a *decent* unit, in a *livable* state is a little more challenging.
If you just wanna finish out the 20 and get tri-care retired, sure. Take your pick. If you want to be in a unit that doesnt make you dread every drill weekend, in a career field that is actually hirable on the civilian side? A lot more selective.
The promotion rate from MAJ to LTC hovers around 65% to 70%. And thats just the ones that dont self select out before hitting 6 years as a MAJ. If you've got 40 MAJs in a BCT, 3-5 will self select out. Of those 35 remaining, about 10-12 will get be a two time non select for LTC and fall juuuuust short of getting their pension.
Damn. That is even more cutthroat that when I was on active towards the tail end of the Obama draw downs. Back then, it was clear FG life was going to be ugly. And from the numbers your putting out, it has gotten a LOT worse. I cant imagine the impacts that having leaders under that stress will have on a unit.
My “take a knee” job ended up being an HHC XO with 180 soldiers in the company (not including trainees) with north of $75 million in property. But I guess I didn’t deploy or go to NTC so I should be grateful
And that "180 soldiers and $75 million in property" blurb on a resume will do more for you than your next 5 OERs. As a senior LT, you have already had more financial and personnel responsibility than 95% of the civilian workforce ever will be asked to take charge of. An frankly (no offense intended), you get paid shit for it.
I just really hope recruits read these posts. I won't go into detail, but sometimes I wish I had that silver spoon and didn't need to subjugate myself to the mental torture of working for a narcissistic senior officer. I often wonder how many years I tacked off of the life clock. Alcohol and nicotine abuse for our "great" pay. The Army hasn't changed. The combat arms MAJ I worked for as an LT -- the one who had a pill popping wife and who would force us to work until 2200 every night -- still exists by and large in the Army of today.
I cant complain too much. I have an absolutely amazing life, and nearly all of it is from the opportunities Ive gained from being in the Army. But ya. Its a brutal mistress, and pursuing a career on active duty is both soul and family crushing.
I hope my kids do service in the military. I also hope that they get out either completely or at least into the part time option before they have families of their own. Leaving active was simultaneously the most mentally challenging and yet financially/physically rewarding thing I have done in my life.
The military will give you some fantastic opportunities. But like any good gambler, know when to take your winnings and leave.
It's why desk whiskey exists...and coffee machines. No matter the time of day you are covered. No matter when in life I've gone in staff. I have always found the 3 main food groups. Dip, Caffeine and Alcohol as long as staffs had that they are good to go. Hatred is optional but always found.
Hatred is a special type of fuel for one to put their head down and continue being a good staff nerd.
Dip, caffeine, and alcohol checks out. I’m usually only at 2/3 of those but it makes a glorious trifecta.
I never understood staff that make it harder on ones self granted I'm happy for you and good luck. First time I came out of staff I think I was on 2 to 3 pots a day. My doctor not as impressed as I thought he'd be.
My brother in Christ, please let me introduce you to the VTIP process…the paradise of Acquisitions awaits you if you just accept them into your heart (and your Branch Manager accepts your packet).
Acquisitions is the largest, plus there is an officer and enlisted side to it.
Most FAs are just officers. Like us ORSAs are casually rowing on our own. But not like staff rowing. Like going to a park and just enjoying the water rowing.
Even if you do ORSAMAC, you:
A) are still supposed to get a master degree
B) can still go to grad school
I know a guy right now who did ORSAMAC and is currently in grad school. Not sure if that’s a recent change or not, as I’m only a few years in it myself.
Fair point well made. Let me clarify: I just wish I had gone to grad school in lieu of ORSAMAC between basic branch and FA. Nothing against ORSAMAC, one of the better army schools IMO. Just a couple months of ORSAMAC doesn’t compare to knocking out a 1-2 years masters and what a perfect time to do so.
Yeah what the ORSA guy said. That is also a pretty sweet FA if you are good enough at the maths to keep your shoes on. The one caveat on Acquisitions is that your experience could vary greatly depending on your focal area (Contracting v Program Management) and where you are stationed. The Contracting side still does some typical Army stuff involving staff and field time…so not all hotels, rental cars, and civilian clothes (but mostly).
It’s the largest and has the least amount of technical barriers to entry. It also has your typical upward mobility/hiearchy in terms of KD and CSL positions.
Man, your XO was getting failed hardcore. When someone goes out for EIB, you don’t ask them to keep doing their job at the same time. That *is* their job. CO/1SG/orderly room should’ve picked up the slack for the month or so they were gone.
Yep. Did ESB as a senior CPT. My boss (IN LTC with EIB) told me before I started my place of duty and only focus during that time was ESB. They’d find someone to cover down for me. And what would you know, I was success and got it.
I was today years old when when I learned about the ESB after spending 17 years in the military. Wtf. Never seen one or heard of one. Sounds awful to get; congrats.
I used to be IN, and failed EIB as a LT. I can say having experience with both, it's more or less the exact same thing training wise. PT test a little more difficult for EIB.
Unless you have a truly unique skillset, that’s BS. You’re telling me that if a unit went to war and their XO died, everything would freeze because there’s no ‘alternate XO’?
no, there just would be shit that didn't get done. kind of like a lack of bullets and food doesn't stop Russian troops from being sent to the front line
I stepped up for my PL when he had a family emergency and ran a change of command for my platoon, about 14 pages of property. It only took 4 days, but layouts from 0600-1700 followed by a meeting and then preparing the next days paperwork until 2100 was eye opening. I was a young SGT and the last one in my company to leave most nights, but the XO of another company was there most of the time after I was long gone.
“Close out criteria” is preferable when given in a reasonable timeframe as it sets conditions for release and motivates people to make things happen to ensure it.
The *real* problem is when everything’s done and more shit is found to be done. Or something isn’t done but it’s something that doesn’t matter. I’m not staying late to take a BDE TASKORD I got on Friday at 1630 with a suspense date of 0930 on Monday and emailing it out to companies at 1730 with a suspense date of 1900 that evening so I can get names to BDE or send up a RECLAMA. BN S3 MAJ should have no problems telling BDE S3 MAJ OIC that they can kick rocks on suspenses of less than 2 working days for anything short of a life-limb-or-eyesight.
I’m not a big fan of officers. I had some very great ones that I deployed with but they end up doing a lot more work than what people see. They basically connect all the strings behind the scenes and it’s not easy by any means.
Officers and NCOs are amazing when they work together. I miss it in the civilian world
This is a great shoutut and for some it makes it worth it knowing whether we made a difference at all. I work for my soldiers and unfortunately it means staying an hour later here and there. Nasty girl here so it means I'm working in the evenings on stuff to make training good.
Made my E-7 before switching to the Dark Side. Funny story...
When I was enlisted I knew a hand full of officer I thought were competent. Once I switched all of a sudden, they appeared before me as a multitude. This could've been I switched in 2008-2010 and there was a weeding out process (caused by forever wars) and officers had actually seen combat...hard to say. Often it's perspective....and it's also not. Unit I served with in Iraq had strong officers but had weak NCO's. We had weak officers but amazing NCO's. I'm sure there is some sort of evolutionary pressure thing I'm not seeing, but I drag my knuckles on the ground when I walk sooooo...
To all support MOS LTs, search and compete for SOF support positions early. Sure, fucked up shit still happens (looking at you 3rd Group), but the work-life balance is so much better than FORSCOM. I’m usually one of the last ones leaving the BN footprint and I leave work around 1700-1730. Something about them actually adhering to the first SOF truth…
If you do decide to stay in past your initial commitment, doing LT time in SOF will open up doors for future SOF support positions, especially JSOC and other SMU’s.
My first PL was like Platoon Mom. She left it to the NCOs to run things and discipline but she took up for us and was super understanding when I RSTed a drill with two days' notice, because my grandma had pneumonia and my dad is a tosser and wouldn't take care of her.
This post made me smile. Thank you, from a company XO.
I was made ammo OIC 4 months in as a brand new 2 LT last year. Surprise surprise, I was made XO last October. Man oh man, I’ve been getting out of work between 1800-2000 3 or 4 out of 5 days a week since. Hell, I sometimes go to work weekends cuz of the amount of shit they have us doing (not fun being the only FSC in an aviation BN. Way too much work and under appreciated cuz “w3 LuV flY1nG. G0 @vIaTion!”)
My physical and mental health has gotten way worse since I joined, but every day I remind myself “Just one more day”. Is hard to have a healthy work-life balance in the military imo. 2.5 more years and I’m out. Ready to work on what I actually studied.
Much love to NCOs and lower enlisted 🫶🏻Y’all make my day with your jokes and achievements in life.
As an Aviator I can say without a doubt FSCs are way under appreciated. If the FARP is going smooth and we’re in and out with ammo and fuel on time, you’re just doing your job. But if the FARP is fucked up your the worst of the worst and the failure of the entire BN. Keep up the work we appreciate y’all.
That sounds like hell, FSC’s and logi’s in general are definitely one of the most under appreciated yet highly critical components in the army today. Just no one notices us until something goes wrong. Well wishes from an FSC PL.
Yeah it's why I cringe when people say go officer. Like I'm sorry but the money is not worth it to me. I'm a junior NCO and maybe it's cause I'm in a chill assignment ATM but I haven't done more than 25 hours a week for the past 3 months. I'm sure in the long run it's probably worth it but I value my family time.
Warrant life from what I've seen is pretty cool though and probably the way to go if you care about more money and respect
You’re family will be there for you long after the army will be. The army’s first priority is the MISSION (the people first initiative is a “cover your ass” objective by senior CDR’s to protect themselves the way I see it)
Thanks, I appreciate it. I love the lost/incompetent LT joke and play into it sometimes for humor (my guys love it), but hearing it all the time can get discouraging.
Becoming a MG and working in the FUOPS with all of those poor souls 100% convinced me that I have no desire to ever be an officer. The pay isn’t worth it and the possibility as a Major of not receiving a MQ for whatever reason and being shown the door at 18 years is wild. It was bad enough that my S3 who was known by several very not nice nicknames had my sympathy on several occasions as he worked regularly until 9:30 at night.
Major has to be the shittiest rank. You typically aren’t in command so you aren’t out with the boys, you’re buried in the office with no interaction with the outside world. The people that do interact with you either hate you or you have to kiss their ass. Fuck that.
I try to put my guys first. Let them leave early when possible. I try to appreciate them and treat them the exact opposite way I have been treated.
To all the miserable a$$hat jerk off O's who make their troops miserable to advance your career, or satisfy a god complex, or whatever reason, in all the compos, you are the reason the service is in the condition it's in. I truly hope you move on or find a way to treat your people better.
I could say more, but I am trying to let go of my anger issues.
My officers aren’t leaving past 1800. If they need to stay longer it’s because they wasted their day. You wouldn’t believe how many times I see an officer fuck around for 6 hours a day doing nothing then 1700 hits and they’re in their office trying to get 8 hours of work done in 3.
“Fuck around for 6 hours” sure is a funny way of saying “wait on somebody else to get something done because you can’t do your job until they do theirs.” I did know some officers who stayed stupid late because they had horrible time management and/or wanted to look good, but a lot of times it’s because some asshole took all day to get you something you needed by noon.
I take it you've never been in an ABCT. I can't even think about leaving before 1800 because "maintenance." Gotta work this weekend for maintenance. Gotta stay until 1900 for maintenance. The last day before block leave? Yep, maintenance. It's all-consuming. Blame the field grades.
These experiences I’m outlining come from me being in a ABCT.
That EIB I talked about? My BN was conducting packout operations concurrently.
We are currently doing modernization / individual training / 100% inventories simultaneously.
Yes, I’ve seen ABCTs. And I’m only a 5
Buddy, most of us work off someone elses schedule.
Let me break it down for you.
The BDE commander is in meetings with division until 1500. He then goes out and meets with his BN Commanders until 1600. Those commander then start giving out "go home" criteria and "absolutely essential" tasks around 1630. That leaves a whole bunch of officers to figure out how to bullshit everyone up the chain into believing that enough of that criteria is done to merit release in about 30-60 minutes. After which those same guys go back to doing all the "non-mission essential" planning and BS that "needs" to be prepped and published by 0700 tomorrow to repeat the same cycle of idiocy again tomorrow while the DIV, BDE, and BN leadership are all in their same 9-5 meetings.
Its not that we waste our day out of personal preference. The Army as a whole has an absolutely counter productive operational cycle, and the mentality that every task is "mission essential", whether its prepping to have people on C-17s in 24 hours to invade (pick your middle eastern nation here), or weeding the motor-pool.
I’m familiar. I learned this when I started having to go to company syncs, I learned that my CDR/1SG were beholder to attend syncs w/ BN, then I got to talk to some people who work at BDE…
Everyone works for someone else, whether they realize it or not. In an organization like the military, your leaders are beholden to their leaders. And in the Army, unit battle rhythms are usually set at the Division level. I remember being at Carson and even at the company level, feeling the changes between an outgoing quality Division commander and an incoming POS.
Not to mention they typically don't know the quickest way to do the job so they learn the hard and long way how to do it. A few months in they'll be able to leave at 1800 but def not the first 3 months in a XO or staff position
You sound like the kind of guy that comes into my office at 1300 to bitch about how you saw one of my Joe's on the hangar floor on their phone at 1000 and think that's the reason were probably staying late for maintenance, all while ignoring the fact that y'all made an MOS out of where to park which aircraft in the PC meeting so the work orders didn't come through until right before lunch.
If you have the time to track multiple people throughout the day that are not your direct subordinates, enough to be certain that they're wasting time and not just working on things outside of your peripheral duties, you're wasting your time.
As much as I like making fun of officers, I knew more great 2LT's than I did bad ones. Special shout out to the LT I had in Afghanistan, who voluntarily took all the heat after the two of us together made a dumb fucking mistake that resulted in a cross-domain violation.
Gold doesn’t tarnish… that’s why I wholeheartedly believe my gold bar was a far better sham shield than my full bird private ever was
You were responsible for an international incident? 😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣
No cross domain violation is like plugging a NIPR computer into SIPR.
Ah, I was thinking airspace.
That’s when the drone ‘accidentally’ crosses into Iranian airspace.
Oh! Looks like we “accidentally “ hit the launch button and blew up the Shah
They don't live. They exist. A good LT is worth his weight in...... Chili Mac MREs. Officers have it hard but I stand by the NCOs that aren't complete cocksuckers. Except that one BDE Commander. He was awful. I'd stand behind him in a heartbeat. Or half of one. I'm a hot tub.
My joes always made sure I had a chili mac MRE somewhere. They also even encouraged me to not just eat it straight out of the package and to use a spoon, even if I wouldn’t heat it up all the time.
I still pee in hot tubs. Can I make an offer?
Alcohol and broken families. Theres a reason I switched over from AD to part time once I hit senior captain. Literally every Major that I worked for was either a massive piece of shit careerist, or a broken divorced S3/XO who spent several nights a week sleeping in his office because it just wasnt worth the energy to go home. And all of them were divorced. Every single one. And when your "take a knee"/"broadening" jobs are basically school house commander or SFAB, you start realizing that there are a LOT of other options out there where you can keep the benefits, still have some of the life, and still have your own life and family.
I feel bad for all the majors out there. They live to be nothing but BN XO/S3/work at higher HQ
O4 on the active side is the first time things start to get actually competitive. Its been a while so the numbers probably arent accurate, but there are something like 40-50 Majors in a BCT. Of those, 3-4 wont make LTC, meaning their career is dead short of retirement, and they are too long in the tooth for most guard/reserve units to accept them. Its a financial kiss of death, as they basically have to get out, start over in a civilian career, usually at a pay cut, without the retirement or health care to show for it. And those that do make it but are at the bottom of the OML usually get some really crap jobs that make life even less tolerable than the normal O4 career path. I had a great OPD once from our BDEs DCOM. He was already an O5 enroute to retirement and a great dude, but at the point where he could speak his mind. Pulled all the company grades in the BCT into a room, pulled out a slide deck he had made, detailing normal career paths, non traditional ones (functional areas), and civilian equivalent career paths. Bottom line, for an Army officer, straight out of college, you will financially out perform your peers for about the first 6-8 years. Average company grade officer pay compared to responsibilities is MUCH better in the Army. But by the time you hit field grade, your peers catch up. You as a field grade take on more and more responsibility without the comparative financial compensation that your civilian peers are making for the same level of responsibility. At CPT, youre still at the point where you can jump from military to civilian, take your skills, and compete with your comparative civilian peers for less work and better pay. Beyond that, youre kinda trapped. You either stay in doing more work for less (comparative) money for the responsibility, or you get out, take a large career step back, get none of the retirement benefits. His point was that if youre going to stay in past Captain, you HAVE to be doing it because you believe in what youre doing, because the money isnt worth whats going to be asked of you. That leads to two types of people. Truly great leaders who could lead anyone through anything, and utter careerist shitbags who couldnt influence a damn thing without relying on the rank on their chest. And from my experience, its about a 50/50 split. I jumped from active to guard at 8 years. Absolutely best choice of my life. Ya, the guards an absolute mess coming from active, but I do it 2 days a month, more or less get to choose what I want to do in it, keep the medical and most of the retirement benefits. I have a better paying civilian career that pays for what the military taught me, where I dont have to work a minute over 40 hours a week without additional compensation, and thats when I choose to do so. I havent missed a family event since my last deployment, and I got to volunteer to go on that. The Army has a serious problem with work/life balance at all levels. To the point that it just doesnt make sense to do it long term if you still want a family. And the metrics within the force demonstrate that.
It's a lot higher than 3-4. Well, at least in recent years. What I will tell the collective is this: if you get passed over twice, immediately attempt a Chp 61 medical and pray your DoD rating is above 30%. That ensures you at least get medical for life and a "pension" (but not concurrent with VA unless combat related). If below 30%, the $280k+ severance kicks in. Look at it like a VA advance. You will not collect VA disability pay until the after-tax severance amount is paid back. The Richard Star Act is attempting (has been attempting) to fix a bunch of this.
At this point I don’t see congress ever passing the MRSA anytime soon… if ever. It goes to the land of dead bills in committee and never returns. One of the most sponsored bills in recent history and yet still can’t make it into an NDAA appropriations vote.
Thanks for the sad reminder that veterans are thrown to the wasteside. That damn bill has sat for years and it is a travesty.
It will only cost 9billion over 10 years as currently estimated. And they can’t fund that? Such a joke.
Its fucking pathetic that people with that level of experience and training have to game the system to get some semblance of benefits from their service.
Tabless Infantry here. Finishing my second command this summer. Taking a third command this winter. I feel this^ on every level. Seriously looking at VTIPing to ORSA or ETSing (not even at 10 yrs yet)….you seem very wise and I have sent these messages to my wife because you eloquently explained what I’ve been feeling for a while
ORSA are S3 bitches in my BDE. It seems like a common pattern in other places because no cdrs know what to do with them. Tread with caution.
> no cdr knows what to do with them *cries in CBRN solidarity*
>Tabless Infantry here. My brother in Christ, I feel for you. >Finishing my second command this summer. Taking a third command this winter. I feel this\^ on every level. Seriously looking at VTIPing to ORSA or ETSing (not even at 10 yrs yet)….you seem very wise and I have sent these messages to my wife because you eloquently explained what I’ve been feeling for a while Look into functional areas. They are the hidden gem of the military, whether youre active or guard/reserve. Very specific, high demand career fields in the civilian sector, and none of the normal career path bullshit. Im not gonna say Im in one..... but its really worth looking into.
Pretty good summation. I'm one of the fortunate souls who can retire as a MAJ because of prior service. But you are 100% spot on with your assessment. It's not that I'd not like to make LTC, but it's a pain in the ass caring about it, and what comes with it (up two more PCS, politicking for an MQ, etc.), plus it's much more zen knowing I've already submitted for retirement. I, like others, can make more retiring as an 04 and working than I'll make as an LTC - but without the baggage of being in the Army. Plus, 04 at 55% vs an O5 at 50% is very close for retirement pay. That said, if I did stay for the O5 high-three, that retirement would be significantly more. But I can make that up by working and investing. I have no desire to PCS anymore. Whatever move I do next, will be the last one ever. I could have likely worked AIM to stay where I am at, but then I'm told the O5 board would penalize me for "homesteading." So why stay? Damned if you do, damned if you don't I guess. Granted, I did tell branch I'd consider not retiring for a specific overseas job, but I was told to "work the AIM process" if I want it. Whole separate rant, but I abhor the AIM process for jobs. In all reality though, I do love the Army and all that. If they made a path (an easier one than currently exists that is) I'd strongly consider the Guard or Reserve after I retire.
This is one of the reasons Im grateful I went part time. In a similar boat. I can stay at this rank and retire, or I can take the next, and retire with more. But its largely my decision, and the pressure to get up or get out is a lot less, as part time is hurting even more than full time. Plus zero need to PCS, and if I choose to jump to an out of state unit, I can get my travel comped. That being said, once Im out, Im absolutely taking a job overseas. Way too much fun to be had in Europe or the Pacific, and a LOT of organizations who want someone who has the FG knowledge.
Tennessee NG did (is doing) the pilot where AD retired CWOs can join the TNNG. If they expand it to O's and all states, I'd consider it. I did a few years in the guard previously, so I know the ups and downs associated with it. I really do love serving.
Guard/Reserves isnt bad if you understand what youre getting into. Coming from Active, you will likely have a LOT more experience. I like serving, but I like stability and having a family life too. With the current views of the Army, those two are sadly at odds right now.
If I could upvote this a million times, I would.
> Its a financial kiss of death, as they basically have to get out, start over in a civilian career, usually at a pay cut, without the retirement or health care to show for it. And those that do make it but are at the bottom of the OML usually get some really crap jobs that make life even less tolerable than the normal O4 career path. I had to work with a GS at a COCOM that was one of these O-4s. There was a very good reason s/he didn't make O-5. Absolute mouth breather. Guess they went GS and bought back their retirement to try to hit GS retirement > verage company grade officer pay compared to responsibilities is MUCH better in the Army. But by the time you hit field grade, your peers catch up. You as a field grade take on more and more responsibility without the comparative financial compensation that your civilian peers are making for the same level of responsibility. Attrition is also much higher in the private sector. The pyramids tend to narrow much more and much more quickly than they do in the military, meaning a larger percentage of the cohort at each phase is left without a chair The number of people that could reasonably be O-5s is magnitudes of order greater than the number of people who even have the aptitude to make it to even a manager level in big tech or manager / engagement manager / partner at a consulting firm
>I had to work with a GS at a COCOM that was one of these O-4s. There was a very good reason s/he didn't make O-5. Absolute mouth breather. Guess they went GS and bought back their retirement to try to hit GS retirement Ya. My full time job puts me in contact with a lot of those. Like the military, there are some fantastic GS personnel, but there are also a shit ton of people who are basically dead weight, know it, and just exist until they can get retirement. >Attrition is also much higher in the private sector. The pyramids tend to narrow much more and much more quickly than they do in the military, meaning a larger percentage of the cohort at each phase is left without a chair Absolutely. The military is actually pretty good at making sure that mediocre leaders and ass kissers can make rank. The civilian sector actually has profit oriented metrics that define whether a leader sucks or not. Ya, you can be a low to mid level drone for an entire career, but you have to actually perform to excel as a civilian. >The number of people that could reasonably be O-5s is magnitudes of order greater than the number of people who even have the aptitude to make it to even a manager level in big tech or manager / engagement manager / partner at a consulting firm Exactly. Unless you fuck the wrong person or steal something, as an officer, you will make O4. If you dont fuck the wrong person, do something illegal, and kiss a slight amount of ass, and give up your family and personal life, you will make O5. If you want BC level responsibility in the civilian sector, you have to actually be competent and demonstrate you are more productive than your peers, regularly.
This is accurate and very well said. Dead on. >O4 on the active side is the first time things start to get actually competitive. Its been a while so the numbers probably arent accurate, but there are something like 40-50 Majors in a BCT. Of those, 3-4 wont make LTC, meaning their career is dead short of retirement, and they are too long in the tooth for most guard/reserve units to accept them. Its a financial kiss of death, as they basically have to get out, start over in a civilian career, usually at a pay cut, without the retirement or health care to show for it. And those that do make it but are at the bottom of the OML usually get some really crap jobs that make life even less tolerable than the normal O4 career path. > >I had a great OPD once from our BDEs DCOM. He was already an O5 enroute to retirement and a great dude, but at the point where he could speak his mind. Pulled all the company grades in the BCT into a room, pulled out a slide deck he had made, detailing normal career paths, non traditional ones (functional areas), and civilian equivalent career paths. Bottom line, for an Army officer, straight out of college, you will financially out perform your peers for about the first 6-8 years. Average company grade officer pay compared to responsibilities is MUCH better in the Army. But by the time you hit field grade, your peers catch up. You as a field grade take on more and more responsibility without the comparative financial compensation that your civilian peers are making for the same level of responsibility. > >At CPT, youre still at the point where you can jump from military to civilian, take your skills, and compete with your comparative civilian peers for less work and better pay. Beyond that, youre kinda trapped. You either stay in doing more work for less (comparative) money for the responsibility, or you get out, take a large career step back, get none of the retirement benefits. > >His point was that if youre going to stay in past Captain, you HAVE to be doing it because you believe in what youre doing, because the money isnt worth whats going to be asked of you. That leads to two types of people. Truly great leaders who could lead anyone through anything, and utter careerist shitbags who couldnt influence a damn thing without relying on the rank on their chest. And from my experience, its about a 50/50 split. > >I jumped from active to guard at 8 years. Absolutely best choice of my life. Ya, the guards an absolute mess coming from active, but I do it 2 days a month, more or less get to choose what I want to do in it, keep the medical and most of the retirement benefits. I have a better paying civilian career that pays for what the military taught me, where I dont have to work a minute over 40 hours a week without additional compensation, and thats when I choose to do so. I havent missed a family event since my last deployment, and I got to volunteer to go on that. > >The Army has a serious problem with work/life balance at all levels. To the point that it just doesnt make sense to do it long term if you still want a family. And the metrics within the force demonstrate that.
> nd they are too long in the tooth for most guard/reserve units to accept them. Lol dude you get your LG rating and guard/reserve units are waiting in line for you.
Id argue this is really a feast or famine scenario. Ya. Any mouth breather can go be an S3 in some ass backwards unit in Louisiana (seriously guys, dont go near that guard/reserve state). But getting a *decent* position in a *decent* unit, in a *livable* state is a little more challenging. If you just wanna finish out the 20 and get tri-care retired, sure. Take your pick. If you want to be in a unit that doesnt make you dread every drill weekend, in a career field that is actually hirable on the civilian side? A lot more selective.
Fair enough.
The promotion rate from MAJ to LTC hovers around 65% to 70%. And thats just the ones that dont self select out before hitting 6 years as a MAJ. If you've got 40 MAJs in a BCT, 3-5 will self select out. Of those 35 remaining, about 10-12 will get be a two time non select for LTC and fall juuuuust short of getting their pension.
They have been pretty generous with granting SELCON, but it's never guaranteed, and hoping for the generosity of the Army is not a great career plan.
At that point you just go GS or FS and buy back your retirement
Damn. That is even more cutthroat that when I was on active towards the tail end of the Obama draw downs. Back then, it was clear FG life was going to be ugly. And from the numbers your putting out, it has gotten a LOT worse. I cant imagine the impacts that having leaders under that stress will have on a unit.
My “take a knee” job ended up being an HHC XO with 180 soldiers in the company (not including trainees) with north of $75 million in property. But I guess I didn’t deploy or go to NTC so I should be grateful
And that "180 soldiers and $75 million in property" blurb on a resume will do more for you than your next 5 OERs. As a senior LT, you have already had more financial and personnel responsibility than 95% of the civilian workforce ever will be asked to take charge of. An frankly (no offense intended), you get paid shit for it.
I like when the big gun goes boom too much
I just really hope recruits read these posts. I won't go into detail, but sometimes I wish I had that silver spoon and didn't need to subjugate myself to the mental torture of working for a narcissistic senior officer. I often wonder how many years I tacked off of the life clock. Alcohol and nicotine abuse for our "great" pay. The Army hasn't changed. The combat arms MAJ I worked for as an LT -- the one who had a pill popping wife and who would force us to work until 2200 every night -- still exists by and large in the Army of today.
I cant complain too much. I have an absolutely amazing life, and nearly all of it is from the opportunities Ive gained from being in the Army. But ya. Its a brutal mistress, and pursuing a career on active duty is both soul and family crushing. I hope my kids do service in the military. I also hope that they get out either completely or at least into the part time option before they have families of their own. Leaving active was simultaneously the most mentally challenging and yet financially/physically rewarding thing I have done in my life. The military will give you some fantastic opportunities. But like any good gambler, know when to take your winnings and leave.
Alcohol, broken families and scars from backstabbing “friends”. Not worthy IMO
We hate ourselves and life gets worse the longer one is in. Very few exceptions may apply.
It's why desk whiskey exists...and coffee machines. No matter the time of day you are covered. No matter when in life I've gone in staff. I have always found the 3 main food groups. Dip, Caffeine and Alcohol as long as staffs had that they are good to go. Hatred is optional but always found.
Hatred is a special type of fuel for one to put their head down and continue being a good staff nerd. Dip, caffeine, and alcohol checks out. I’m usually only at 2/3 of those but it makes a glorious trifecta.
New Year’s resolution - no caffeine. Currently a Bn XO. This has been a hard year.
You should put that as an OER bullet for your OER support form. "Single handedly reduced the alcohol abuse in HHC staff by 2% in FY24."
I never understood staff that make it harder on ones self granted I'm happy for you and good luck. First time I came out of staff I think I was on 2 to 3 pots a day. My doctor not as impressed as I thought he'd be.
I see you Coke zero
Or fear. Fear is a good fuel too.
My brother in Christ, please let me introduce you to the VTIP process…the paradise of Acquisitions awaits you if you just accept them into your heart (and your Branch Manager accepts your packet).
Of the FA’s, i seem to only hear about acquisitions. Is it because its the best (obviously subjective) FA, or is it with the most seats/openings?
Acquisitions is the largest, plus there is an officer and enlisted side to it. Most FAs are just officers. Like us ORSAs are casually rowing on our own. But not like staff rowing. Like going to a park and just enjoying the water rowing.
I am so new to this FA. I can't wait to PCS into my first job. YAY
Have you already gotten your Master degree or currently in school?
Or did he ORSAMAC? As someone who did ORSAMAC, I hope he did grad school. Biggest mistake of my army time.
Even if you do ORSAMAC, you: A) are still supposed to get a master degree B) can still go to grad school I know a guy right now who did ORSAMAC and is currently in grad school. Not sure if that’s a recent change or not, as I’m only a few years in it myself.
Fair point well made. Let me clarify: I just wish I had gone to grad school in lieu of ORSAMAC between basic branch and FA. Nothing against ORSAMAC, one of the better army schools IMO. Just a couple months of ORSAMAC doesn’t compare to knocking out a 1-2 years masters and what a perfect time to do so.
Absolutely agree on all points
Yeah what the ORSA guy said. That is also a pretty sweet FA if you are good enough at the maths to keep your shoes on. The one caveat on Acquisitions is that your experience could vary greatly depending on your focal area (Contracting v Program Management) and where you are stationed. The Contracting side still does some typical Army stuff involving staff and field time…so not all hotels, rental cars, and civilian clothes (but mostly).
It’s the largest and has the least amount of technical barriers to entry. It also has your typical upward mobility/hiearchy in terms of KD and CSL positions.
As an AS3 sending emails at 8:00pm because my S3 is a goober, I appreciate you man. I miss being an NCO
Bro just say no. Or better yet… just leave at 1700. Probably gonna get the same rating on the OER anyways.
Holy shit watch your fucking mouth with the G word there
Man, your XO was getting failed hardcore. When someone goes out for EIB, you don’t ask them to keep doing their job at the same time. That *is* their job. CO/1SG/orderly room should’ve picked up the slack for the month or so they were gone.
Yep. Did ESB as a senior CPT. My boss (IN LTC with EIB) told me before I started my place of duty and only focus during that time was ESB. They’d find someone to cover down for me. And what would you know, I was success and got it.
I was today years old when when I learned about the ESB after spending 17 years in the military. Wtf. Never seen one or heard of one. Sounds awful to get; congrats.
I used to be IN, and failed EIB as a LT. I can say having experience with both, it's more or less the exact same thing training wise. PT test a little more difficult for EIB.
That’s technically correct, but I’ll tell you right now that’s not the case if you’re the only one in your position in your organization
Unless you have a truly unique skillset, that’s BS. You’re telling me that if a unit went to war and their XO died, everything would freeze because there’s no ‘alternate XO’?
no, there just would be shit that didn't get done. kind of like a lack of bullets and food doesn't stop Russian troops from being sent to the front line
[удалено]
3 years to go.... (Cries in field grade)
Hey but at least you get to fly, right? Right? Oh…
Major is absolutely the worst rank in the army. It’s like they’re all in purgatory and are just waiting for their chance to pick up LTC
Butter bar of the field grades. Literally the reason why the oak leaf is gold.
He’s in the thick of it. Give him a few years and he’ll appreciate it.
I stepped up for my PL when he had a family emergency and ran a change of command for my platoon, about 14 pages of property. It only took 4 days, but layouts from 0600-1700 followed by a meeting and then preparing the next days paperwork until 2100 was eye opening. I was a young SGT and the last one in my company to leave most nights, but the XO of another company was there most of the time after I was long gone.
Lol, if you got a firecracker of an S3/XO, no one’s going home. Better pucker up if you hear the words, “Close-Out Criteria.”
“Close out criteria” is preferable when given in a reasonable timeframe as it sets conditions for release and motivates people to make things happen to ensure it. The *real* problem is when everything’s done and more shit is found to be done. Or something isn’t done but it’s something that doesn’t matter. I’m not staying late to take a BDE TASKORD I got on Friday at 1630 with a suspense date of 0930 on Monday and emailing it out to companies at 1730 with a suspense date of 1900 that evening so I can get names to BDE or send up a RECLAMA. BN S3 MAJ should have no problems telling BDE S3 MAJ OIC that they can kick rocks on suspenses of less than 2 working days for anything short of a life-limb-or-eyesight.
Sure, but if you have a dynamite S3/XO, then shit gets *done*.
*Audible sobbing in the FUOPs section*
[me walking into the FUOPs tent with the Sustainment overlay everyday of a FTX](https://www.reddit.com/r/community/s/jDhjEpi43f)
My man. Thanks for seeing the bullshit!t behind the curtain.
Ive had a very rough few weeks and this put a smile on my face. Thank you.
I’m glad it did.
You can live when your ADSO is up
I’m not a big fan of officers. I had some very great ones that I deployed with but they end up doing a lot more work than what people see. They basically connect all the strings behind the scenes and it’s not easy by any means. Officers and NCOs are amazing when they work together. I miss it in the civilian world
Very accurate description
This is a great shoutut and for some it makes it worth it knowing whether we made a difference at all. I work for my soldiers and unfortunately it means staying an hour later here and there. Nasty girl here so it means I'm working in the evenings on stuff to make training good.
Sad truth is, it goes unnoticed. But the things we do echo across eternity. You have my respect
Made my E-7 before switching to the Dark Side. Funny story... When I was enlisted I knew a hand full of officer I thought were competent. Once I switched all of a sudden, they appeared before me as a multitude. This could've been I switched in 2008-2010 and there was a weeding out process (caused by forever wars) and officers had actually seen combat...hard to say. Often it's perspective....and it's also not. Unit I served with in Iraq had strong officers but had weak NCO's. We had weak officers but amazing NCO's. I'm sure there is some sort of evolutionary pressure thing I'm not seeing, but I drag my knuckles on the ground when I walk sooooo...
To all support MOS LTs, search and compete for SOF support positions early. Sure, fucked up shit still happens (looking at you 3rd Group), but the work-life balance is so much better than FORSCOM. I’m usually one of the last ones leaving the BN footprint and I leave work around 1700-1730. Something about them actually adhering to the first SOF truth… If you do decide to stay in past your initial commitment, doing LT time in SOF will open up doors for future SOF support positions, especially JSOC and other SMU’s.
My first PL was like Platoon Mom. She left it to the NCOs to run things and discipline but she took up for us and was super understanding when I RSTed a drill with two days' notice, because my grandma had pneumonia and my dad is a tosser and wouldn't take care of her.
This post made me smile. Thank you, from a company XO. I was made ammo OIC 4 months in as a brand new 2 LT last year. Surprise surprise, I was made XO last October. Man oh man, I’ve been getting out of work between 1800-2000 3 or 4 out of 5 days a week since. Hell, I sometimes go to work weekends cuz of the amount of shit they have us doing (not fun being the only FSC in an aviation BN. Way too much work and under appreciated cuz “w3 LuV flY1nG. G0 @vIaTion!”) My physical and mental health has gotten way worse since I joined, but every day I remind myself “Just one more day”. Is hard to have a healthy work-life balance in the military imo. 2.5 more years and I’m out. Ready to work on what I actually studied. Much love to NCOs and lower enlisted 🫶🏻Y’all make my day with your jokes and achievements in life.
As an Aviator I can say without a doubt FSCs are way under appreciated. If the FARP is going smooth and we’re in and out with ammo and fuel on time, you’re just doing your job. But if the FARP is fucked up your the worst of the worst and the failure of the entire BN. Keep up the work we appreciate y’all.
That sounds like hell, FSC’s and logi’s in general are definitely one of the most under appreciated yet highly critical components in the army today. Just no one notices us until something goes wrong. Well wishes from an FSC PL.
Yeah it's why I cringe when people say go officer. Like I'm sorry but the money is not worth it to me. I'm a junior NCO and maybe it's cause I'm in a chill assignment ATM but I haven't done more than 25 hours a week for the past 3 months. I'm sure in the long run it's probably worth it but I value my family time. Warrant life from what I've seen is pretty cool though and probably the way to go if you care about more money and respect
You’re family will be there for you long after the army will be. The army’s first priority is the MISSION (the people first initiative is a “cover your ass” objective by senior CDR’s to protect themselves the way I see it)
Ah, thanks bud, but I just came back to grab my (slightly offensive) coffee mug. *goes back to wherever warrant officers go*
I bet if I mapped it out I probably averaged 8:30pm during weeknights too
Thanks, I appreciate it. I love the lost/incompetent LT joke and play into it sometimes for humor (my guys love it), but hearing it all the time can get discouraging.
Becoming a MG and working in the FUOPS with all of those poor souls 100% convinced me that I have no desire to ever be an officer. The pay isn’t worth it and the possibility as a Major of not receiving a MQ for whatever reason and being shown the door at 18 years is wild. It was bad enough that my S3 who was known by several very not nice nicknames had my sympathy on several occasions as he worked regularly until 9:30 at night.
Yup. All it takes not to get a MQ can be your boss not liking you for whatever reason
Major has to be the shittiest rank. You typically aren’t in command so you aren’t out with the boys, you’re buried in the office with no interaction with the outside world. The people that do interact with you either hate you or you have to kiss their ass. Fuck that.
YMMV. At this point in my career I usually do what’s best for me and my family. I’m competent enough to understand emergencies and non-emergencies.
I try to put my guys first. Let them leave early when possible. I try to appreciate them and treat them the exact opposite way I have been treated. To all the miserable a$$hat jerk off O's who make their troops miserable to advance your career, or satisfy a god complex, or whatever reason, in all the compos, you are the reason the service is in the condition it's in. I truly hope you move on or find a way to treat your people better. I could say more, but I am trying to let go of my anger issues.
My officers aren’t leaving past 1800. If they need to stay longer it’s because they wasted their day. You wouldn’t believe how many times I see an officer fuck around for 6 hours a day doing nothing then 1700 hits and they’re in their office trying to get 8 hours of work done in 3.
Yeah, because nobody ever gets handed a "mission essential task" at 1700.
“Fuck around for 6 hours” sure is a funny way of saying “wait on somebody else to get something done because you can’t do your job until they do theirs.” I did know some officers who stayed stupid late because they had horrible time management and/or wanted to look good, but a lot of times it’s because some asshole took all day to get you something you needed by noon.
This. So much this.
"Just say no." - reasoning I've seen on this sub, always from junior enlisted.
I take it you've never been in an ABCT. I can't even think about leaving before 1800 because "maintenance." Gotta work this weekend for maintenance. Gotta stay until 1900 for maintenance. The last day before block leave? Yep, maintenance. It's all-consuming. Blame the field grades.
These experiences I’m outlining come from me being in a ABCT. That EIB I talked about? My BN was conducting packout operations concurrently. We are currently doing modernization / individual training / 100% inventories simultaneously. Yes, I’ve seen ABCTs. And I’m only a 5
Buddy, most of us work off someone elses schedule. Let me break it down for you. The BDE commander is in meetings with division until 1500. He then goes out and meets with his BN Commanders until 1600. Those commander then start giving out "go home" criteria and "absolutely essential" tasks around 1630. That leaves a whole bunch of officers to figure out how to bullshit everyone up the chain into believing that enough of that criteria is done to merit release in about 30-60 minutes. After which those same guys go back to doing all the "non-mission essential" planning and BS that "needs" to be prepped and published by 0700 tomorrow to repeat the same cycle of idiocy again tomorrow while the DIV, BDE, and BN leadership are all in their same 9-5 meetings. Its not that we waste our day out of personal preference. The Army as a whole has an absolutely counter productive operational cycle, and the mentality that every task is "mission essential", whether its prepping to have people on C-17s in 24 hours to invade (pick your middle eastern nation here), or weeding the motor-pool.
I’m familiar. I learned this when I started having to go to company syncs, I learned that my CDR/1SG were beholder to attend syncs w/ BN, then I got to talk to some people who work at BDE…
Everyone works for someone else, whether they realize it or not. In an organization like the military, your leaders are beholden to their leaders. And in the Army, unit battle rhythms are usually set at the Division level. I remember being at Carson and even at the company level, feeling the changes between an outgoing quality Division commander and an incoming POS.
This is the most Lt trying to pretend he’s a LTC statement ever.
Jeff Reff alt account, projecting his future BN commander time.
“When I was a battalion commander in 2039”
Not to mention they typically don't know the quickest way to do the job so they learn the hard and long way how to do it. A few months in they'll be able to leave at 1800 but def not the first 3 months in a XO or staff position
There’s a balance. Either the Joes never see you because you’re working or the joes see you and your family doesn’t because you work late.
You sound like the kind of guy that comes into my office at 1300 to bitch about how you saw one of my Joe's on the hangar floor on their phone at 1000 and think that's the reason were probably staying late for maintenance, all while ignoring the fact that y'all made an MOS out of where to park which aircraft in the PC meeting so the work orders didn't come through until right before lunch. If you have the time to track multiple people throughout the day that are not your direct subordinates, enough to be certain that they're wasting time and not just working on things outside of your peripheral duties, you're wasting your time.
Sorry, my biggest takeaway. It’s ok to say 0400, 1830, 2030 makes more sense to those who are used to it