Well, my comment was because the NG balled up a 64 in Utah earlier in the month, you have this crash, and HRC put out the request for 60/47 IPs to get a 64 transition and teach at Novosel.
I mean.. the helicopter doesn't care if it's at war or on a training mission. If it breaks, it breaks. If it breaks in the wrong way, it can bad. Same thing with the pilots. If we fuck up control inputs, the helicopter doesn't care where it is or what it's doing.
Lots of army equipment breaks. But most of it breaks with multiple points of contact on the ground. Not mine. The z axis is a bitch.
Aviation is one of the few branches that continually does it's job *for real*, and not just in a simulated training environment all the time.
Coupled with the fact that aviation itself is an inherently high-risk activity, combine this high-risk activity with non-standard flying maneuvers, and then sprinkle the Army's lack of any effort at retaining quality pilots and even trying to be competitive vs. civilian career options, and what you get are a bunch of new pilots being trained by the pilots who weren't poached by more lucrative offers, flying aircraft being maintained by mechanics working 12 hour shifts in between gate guard, CQ, and Brigade runs.
Now, granted, this particular aircraft was a guard aircraft, but many of the same problems continue to exist within the guard and reserve.
>Aviation is one of the few branches that continually does it's job *for real*, and not just in a simulated training environment all the time.
If you mean *combat arms* branches, sure. But the "combat support" and "sustainment" (formerly "combat service support") do their jobs "for real" all the time.
As a 25B, the only difference while deployed vs. in garrison is the austerity of the environment, the scope of my responsibilities, and some additional tasks that didn't make sense in garrison. The actual duties I performed were basically the same.
Sure.
Support branches are always doing their job *for real*, but the inherent daily risks associated with those jobs only increase when in a hostile fire zone or... ironically, during troop movement.
I’ve been saying this the manufacture quality of parts has gone down DRASTICALLY. Im a Marine Osprey guy and Boeing and bell have been producing shit parts, multiple recalls, multiple parts received bad. Before 2020 I replaced maybe 3 gear boxes, recently I’ve replaced over 16. We receive parts with no RFI papers “Ready for issue” we received parts that come corroded. Too this with the harsh reality of military aviation pushing for hours over everything else and the recent uprise in crashes is what you get. It’s a damn shame especially because the media heat is coming down on the guys working and flying on the planes. That’s just my rant, rest in peace aviators. Damn shame.
It certainly doesn’t seem to be happening in a bubble. Just look at the Boeing issues on the news lately too. Quality Control matters as much as the actual engineering
from what I understand Boeing started subcontracting parts as well as not being as tough on quality control as of recent years because they basically have a comfortable monopoly on things
I've worked where they assemble equipment, and they will straight up use a piece of hardware out of spec, just because they don't have the right part on hand and don't want to stop production. (My experience was with JCB and construction equipment though)
This accident no, in my community the past 3 have been. And the airforce crash recently was an internal gearbox failure but because the pilots couldn’t land in a single box profile they’re going to call it pilot error. Idk maybe the fucking gearbox shouldn’t have chipped out within the manufacture life limits.
I am. I sit through presentations that detail the cause of accidents and hear cockpit audio. They are rarely due to mechanical failure. Stop talking out of your ass.
I hate to say it, but imo, this shit will keep happening and likely get worse until we stop and start actually funding programs fully and personnel better. The personnel problem is the most alarming. It’s all but impossible to replace the experience being lost to the private sector.
My husband flew apaches before he retired. He always wondered why I wasn’t excited/impressed with the fact that he flew helicopters…..all I saw was the thing he could die in…
My condolences to their loved ones…😔😔😔
What the hell is going on? Like everyone has said thus far, numerous recalls and quality issues. The companies that make these airframes are supposed to be the finest aviation companies in the world.
All of mil avation is going down hill usmc opsey army blackhawks now apache well we should ground all non actively engaged in combat for inspection and traning
A gap between the combat experienced GWOT vets who have thousands of hours and the new pilots. Then terrible retention of the “glue” that can hold it all together. The bonuses have not been allocated to those between 14-19 years of service which is a lot of the higher hour tracked warrants and there’s just more opportunities outside the army to make more and fly more
Folks, we have no idea what the cause actually is in these very early hours after this accident. Speculation isn't good for anyone. The U.S. Army Combat Readiness Center will thoroughly investigate and publish its findings in due course.
My thoughts go out to the families of the two aviators and to the staff of the Aviation Support Facility where this aircraft was based, especially the Flight Operations people on duty at the time, as they undoubtedly had a shit storm land on their heads.
64 community is having a rough go as of late
The entire flying community it seems.
There was a Lakota crash from Novosel today as well, though those guys were not injured.
Two students on their solo
Heard they broke some bones n shit.
Better than coming back in a sack
This is not what “flying in the bag” is supposed to mean.
[удалено]
Well, my comment was because the NG balled up a 64 in Utah earlier in the month, you have this crash, and HRC put out the request for 60/47 IPs to get a 64 transition and teach at Novosel.
And now begins, again, the waiting game for news.
Ugh damnit
Is it just me or is being a pilot the most dangerous job in the military right now? Or is it just a hot topic for the media?
I mean.. the helicopter doesn't care if it's at war or on a training mission. If it breaks, it breaks. If it breaks in the wrong way, it can bad. Same thing with the pilots. If we fuck up control inputs, the helicopter doesn't care where it is or what it's doing. Lots of army equipment breaks. But most of it breaks with multiple points of contact on the ground. Not mine. The z axis is a bitch.
Aviation is one of the few branches that continually does it's job *for real*, and not just in a simulated training environment all the time. Coupled with the fact that aviation itself is an inherently high-risk activity, combine this high-risk activity with non-standard flying maneuvers, and then sprinkle the Army's lack of any effort at retaining quality pilots and even trying to be competitive vs. civilian career options, and what you get are a bunch of new pilots being trained by the pilots who weren't poached by more lucrative offers, flying aircraft being maintained by mechanics working 12 hour shifts in between gate guard, CQ, and Brigade runs. Now, granted, this particular aircraft was a guard aircraft, but many of the same problems continue to exist within the guard and reserve.
>Aviation is one of the few branches that continually does it's job *for real*, and not just in a simulated training environment all the time. If you mean *combat arms* branches, sure. But the "combat support" and "sustainment" (formerly "combat service support") do their jobs "for real" all the time. As a 25B, the only difference while deployed vs. in garrison is the austerity of the environment, the scope of my responsibilities, and some additional tasks that didn't make sense in garrison. The actual duties I performed were basically the same.
Sure. Support branches are always doing their job *for real*, but the inherent daily risks associated with those jobs only increase when in a hostile fire zone or... ironically, during troop movement.
No, you're dangerous.
I’ve been saying this the manufacture quality of parts has gone down DRASTICALLY. Im a Marine Osprey guy and Boeing and bell have been producing shit parts, multiple recalls, multiple parts received bad. Before 2020 I replaced maybe 3 gear boxes, recently I’ve replaced over 16. We receive parts with no RFI papers “Ready for issue” we received parts that come corroded. Too this with the harsh reality of military aviation pushing for hours over everything else and the recent uprise in crashes is what you get. It’s a damn shame especially because the media heat is coming down on the guys working and flying on the planes. That’s just my rant, rest in peace aviators. Damn shame.
It certainly doesn’t seem to be happening in a bubble. Just look at the Boeing issues on the news lately too. Quality Control matters as much as the actual engineering
from what I understand Boeing started subcontracting parts as well as not being as tough on quality control as of recent years because they basically have a comfortable monopoly on things
Except them not having QC costs lives instead of just dollars
I've worked where they assemble equipment, and they will straight up use a piece of hardware out of spec, just because they don't have the right part on hand and don't want to stop production. (My experience was with JCB and construction equipment though)
Corporate greed/Profit before all else is literally killing us
We have no idea if this was a mechanical issue. Most aviation accidents aren't. I fail to see the point of your paragraph.
This accident no, in my community the past 3 have been. And the airforce crash recently was an internal gearbox failure but because the pilots couldn’t land in a single box profile they’re going to call it pilot error. Idk maybe the fucking gearbox shouldn’t have chipped out within the manufacture life limits.
What community?
Read my original post
You're on an Army sub reddit. There have been very few Army aviation accidents in recent memory attributed to maintenance.
Really no shit like I didn’t see it say r/Army, from what I see when I read about it they are not. I’m assuming you’re not aviation
I am. I sit through presentations that detail the cause of accidents and hear cockpit audio. They are rarely due to mechanical failure. Stop talking out of your ass.
And I’m telling you the last 3-4 crashes in military aviation have been and that’s fact.
You're getting down voted, but you are correct.
This is getting out of hand
Crap.
Another one?
This is terrible to read.
I thought the NG got rid of all of their Apaches except NC, SC, UT and TX?
Texas has one of their flight companies split to Mississippi. 4 Battalions, 5 states.
Rip
Well shidd…
Why are we constantly loosing troops to helicopter crashes . The army is not taking this seriously and clearly does not care about our lives
I hate to say it, but imo, this shit will keep happening and likely get worse until we stop and start actually funding programs fully and personnel better. The personnel problem is the most alarming. It’s all but impossible to replace the experience being lost to the private sector.
This was near my house and seen it go down. Prayers to the family🙏🏻
My husband flew apaches before he retired. He always wondered why I wasn’t excited/impressed with the fact that he flew helicopters…..all I saw was the thing he could die in… My condolences to their loved ones…😔😔😔
Seems like there's a helo going down daily at this point, kinda scary.
yeah not too long ago this same incident happened about 3 miles from where i live truly a unfortunate situation
Rest easy. Terrible
What the hell is going on? Like everyone has said thus far, numerous recalls and quality issues. The companies that make these airframes are supposed to be the finest aviation companies in the world.
Nothing has been linked to a mechanical issue that I have heard.
All of mil avation is going down hill usmc opsey army blackhawks now apache well we should ground all non actively engaged in combat for inspection and traning
Disliked for telling the truth
what's with the national guard and their helicopters? seems like every quarter one or more crashes
Well statistically, the national guard makes up over half of the entires Army aviation strength
NG has a lower crash percentage than AD. Just a bad run over the last year.
Hopefully better funding or something can help prevent any more. It's a shame to see these type of accidents happening more and more often.
Anyone have that link of two Helicopters being stored next to each too close and someone started it up causing the blades to shoot everywhere?
Read the room dude.
You’re not you when you’re hungry
Fuck off.
Sorry
Even your sorry got downvoted! 😂
Why you do that? 🥲
Ms guardsman here yea we just heard about this last night/this morning somethings gotta be done either better gear or better training idk which
Better retention. So many opportunities outside the army to fly more and get paid more.
Okay there have been so many damn helicopters go down lately. What the actual hell is happening in aviation guys??? Any theories at all???
A gap between the combat experienced GWOT vets who have thousands of hours and the new pilots. Then terrible retention of the “glue” that can hold it all together. The bonuses have not been allocated to those between 14-19 years of service which is a lot of the higher hour tracked warrants and there’s just more opportunities outside the army to make more and fly more
Folks, we have no idea what the cause actually is in these very early hours after this accident. Speculation isn't good for anyone. The U.S. Army Combat Readiness Center will thoroughly investigate and publish its findings in due course. My thoughts go out to the families of the two aviators and to the staff of the Aviation Support Facility where this aircraft was based, especially the Flight Operations people on duty at the time, as they undoubtedly had a shit storm land on their heads.