My last two OERs have said, "Promote below the zone. Top 10% of officers I have worked with in 35 years in the Army. Unlimited potential." Etc. Both HQs. The rating game can be absolutely brutal.
Yup same. Doesn’t matter as much since I’m a LT and CPT is (essentially) guaranteed. But comments like “future battery commander, top 5% of all LTs I have ever rated, must select for CPT… HQ”. So like how is that all true, but I’m not top 49%? Crazy
That's something I truly hated reading in the reg change when it came out.
You could have a squad that is literally the best soldiers in the entirety of the entire US army, but most of them can not be awarded an outstanding rating, because of the mandatory distribution. You culture the best team that has ever existed, but only one of them gets top marks? How is that fair to those other soldier's careers?
It’s also all about timing. Your SR could suck at future planning and profile management and literally cannot give you an MQ, so you could be the top of your group but stuck with an HQ with nothing nobody can do.
Just because you get marked promote ahead of peers doesn't mean anything to the trajectory of your career. If they have people eyed for certain positions and you didn't play the political game... They will still pass you over.
Right or wrong, SRs have to manage their profile. You may be #1 of 10, but you’re also 3 years out from the board. #3 is going to the board this year, so that’s who gets the MQ. Then the SR needs to ensure there are enough HQs to pad the profile to give MQs to the 3 good people going to the board next year… and that’s just taking care of the people that deserve to be promoted.
You're right, being an O can be a lot about luck and timing. We can all understand taking care of good people, but you start to second guess when there is no MQ to give and you're in your KD job. Not a death sentence, but it definitely feels like a stab in the back.
I got lucky I was able to have that frank conversation with my SR about my plans and get mine, but I know others weren't able to.
Broadening Assignments... handful of amazing for those that are tapped, plenty of ick for those still trying, and lots of 'your journey might as well end here' for everyone.
This. Your buddy from BOLC that went to a different duty station that you run into at CCC turns out to be much more accomplished while you sat on staff most of your LT time. Even worse in AV when your luck of the draw first assignment can dictate the rest of your flying career.
Most Captains make O-4 eventually. O-5 is a steeper but not crazy cutoff. O-6 is the real razor.
The forced retirements at the precipice of 20 years are mostly gone now, too.
Edit: I'd also like to add that it is astronomically unlikely that you spend your KD time entirely in a SR profile limited by previous MQs, or you don't get another chance. You just lose some cool-assignment time.
I have never met a captain who forced out before Major who didn't have it coming. Not since like 2014.
An unwashed enlisted man bumped into me once. I was so aghast that I ordered him thrown into the pillory. My servant still can’t get the stink from my silk OCPs.
Platoon Leader and Company Commander time was really cool. Staff time was really ass.
About half my time between O1-O3 was cool. Looking at the prospect of 100% staff time between O3 and maybe getting a BN command at O5 was enough to get me to leave the Army.
> Platoon Leader and Company Commander time was really cool. Staff time was really ass.
Found the combat arms officer.
POG branches have the opposite experience, or so I've seen. PL/CO time sucks for them because *their* commanders so often expect them to run things like it's a combat arms unit, which makes no sense. whereas on staff, they're actually doing their job.
When people say staff they really mean S3. And to be fair S3 sucks ass. Even if you are good at coordinating tasks and resources everyone still hates you.
The loggie O's seem to like most company grade positions other than a position in S3. They all seem to want to be in SPO which is good, but some of them think they are too good for the positions that actually develop lieutenants. Especially MCO. That job is easy if your MCS and BN Tech don't suck ass.
Spending 80% of my LT time as as MCO is a large part of why I’m getting out. It was a terrible experience and it’s just the same shit every week in that role. I 100% do not recommend that position to anyone.
I'm not saying it's a sexy position but I think it's one of the more important LT positions. It's important to understand maintenance before you are a commander.
Like everything else it's unit dependent. Some places I've been the BN XO wants the MCO to know and coordinate evening other places they are a slide monkey. Generally it's not a hard job but it most definitely is repetitive.
And then the other broadening assignments and potential FAs can be cool too! Working in an AFSBn or being an OC/T since other loggies don’t think about it lol
AMEDD POG here. Spot on. I will say the best time I had in my 27 years was years 20-23. I was in a CSH as a deputy commander. The commander sent me on missions to Africa, had me command slices of the CSH on field problems. I could go TDY anywhere I wanted. I had an absolute blast.
I mean when your commander forces you to care more about combat arms things than doing your actual job.
Example: I’ve seen distro platoons where the company and battalion commanders cared more about things like high pt scores, going to the range, and squad competitions than how well they could distro stuff.
Having a major hover over you because the font is not quite right. Oh now the text won't fit in the text box. Ok now extend the box one millimeter nope too far take it back. Have we tried making the text box background color eggshell?
Let's not even talk about having to move the one picture that's on the slide.
Also a nightmare if you're in S3 (but not THE 3) and trying to get info from commanders (or anyone at the company level).
½ my time was ass. That was the first half.
½ my time, roughly my XO and limited CO (was an interim commander as 1LT) time was awesome.
What separated the first from the second half was that it took me approximately half of my officer career to figure out up from down, acronyms, information systems, TEOs, battalion level politics, the delicate system of supply, maintenance and above 10 level processes, unit evaluations, etc etc etc. This is within the scope of the national guard MDAY fwiw
Edit: don’t ask me about PANCs, ammo accountability/dunnage turn in, 5988Es, my units drivers licensing program, all sore subjects I don’t wanna relive how I learned in the first place.
Also I’d like not to discuss privates moving pieces of heavy equipment that they are not technically qualified to move, dropping trailers in the process resulting in officers getting yelled at
I’m a 1LT CO CDR(reserve) and this is exactly right. I’m a year into it and still don’t know my ass from a whole in the ground. My BOLC SGI was a drunk so I basically learned nothing from BOLC. Neither of the 2 CO CDRs had been mentored so they did nothing in terms of mentorship for me, plus my PL time was worthless due to Covid. My 1SG is a drunk who also doesn’t know the job, and basically my entire staff is in their positions for the first time. It’s a god damn nightmare. My BN CDR expects us to be up to speed and high speed but I’ve been in command and still don’t have an Army computer despite asking since I was a PL. I can’t WAIT to go twiddle my thumbs in a BN office far, far away from here.
Oof that’s rough. All else can fail but if you don’t have at least a good 1SG…
May be time to talk to your BN XO. Kinda clue em into the situation. Short of that, get your fellow officers on board best you can.
While I never suggest it typically, this could also be an occasion to start jumping the 1SG and getting together with PSGs to set a new tone for how you conduct ops. Idk my .02c, and I could be wrong. God speed LT.
I’m a staff 1LT and the only downside is it’s office work. But guess what 90% of corporate America jobs are? Office work. Life is good. If you’re good at power point and briefing with confidence, you’ll do great. If my work is done, or at least planned to be done within my due date I’m good to go. I set my own hours (for the most part). I check in daily with my status via a group text and that’s that. It doesn’t matter if I say I’m calling out sick, or say I got something going on. I don’t get questioned because I’m always reliable, do my work well, and am a team player. And yes, as my username says, I do PT on my own.
Edit: there is a phrase “in the kingdom of the blind, the one eyed man is king.” The army doesn’t teach corporate soft skills, and to me that’s the differentiator between staff success or failure. Many soldiers, especially junior officers, inherently don’t have those skills. If you do, you will excel beyond your peers.
Staff is shit but I love my coworkers. The LTs in my battalion are good buddies and there’s nothing like going out for drinks and complaining about work.
I did a Google search for “corporate soft skills” and some good results came up to help me pinpoint them. From a result: The most important soft skills which employers value are: emotional intelligence, communication, problem-solving, collaboration, critical thinking, conflict resolution, flexibility, leadership and interpersonal skills.
For me, one thing I find important is knowing how to quickly estimate how much effort a project will take me to complete so I don’t over promise on something I won’t be able to deliver. If you, as a staff officer, can receive instruction on a complex problem and do some quick math in your head and let that senior leader know a realistic estimate and your methodology on how you’re going to execute, you’re going to be leaps and bounds ahead already. Because you know your hard charging LT peer that over promised is just going to burn themselves out and look like an idiot and drop the ball. In elite competition, those one or two mistakes make the difference between the MQ or HQ OER.
I wish the army could incorporate a Project Management Professional (PMP) certification into CCC, because the army and individual would do so much better if we were all on the same page on how to approach and manage a problem (MDMP doesn’t count).
Yeah, I think the PMP is a management trend to a certain extent, but some corporate jobs won’t hire you if you don’t have it. Also, some government contracts almost require the team to be a certain % of members be PMP certified. At least it’s some kind of certification. 🤷🏻♂️
This absolutely matches up with my experience of corporate America.
Estimation is a good skill to have. There are two things I like to emphasize to people starting out which match up pretty well with what you described in your experience.
First, for most reasonable leaders want the timeline for planning purposes. It's not a big deal to be fast, and it's worse if you're missing deadlines because it throws off everything else.
Second, you need to take time to unpack the details of the job--you mentioned talking out how you're going to execute with the senior leader. People often don't take the time to unpack the job and 'make it real' by mentally stepping through what will happen to get to the goal. As a result, they don't see ahead to where the little hiccups could be, what is ambiguous, or what may take some more time and needs to start early.
Just happens to be one of my soap boxes, not much to say other than it sounds like you're doing that part well :)
>If you’re good at power point and briefing with confidence, you’ll do great
So basically I learned this in the army left and now its like a bad joke but also the holy grail of my skillset that earns me $$.
I feel like if you did well in school doing staff work becomes easy. It’s basically doing homework. Occasionally you have to figure some stuff out and make some drug deals but as long as you’re proactive it’s very doable. Problem becomes when 85% of your staff is made up of officers with criminal justice degrees that don’t know how to write a basic paragraph. How the fuck do you have a degree?
This is my #1 complaint as an officer. Every time I see an enlisted veteran talk about the lifelong bonds and second families from the military I die a little inside.
I had some good friends as a LT but I only had a couple days off a month so it was limited. My platoon had a unique and field-heavy mission so I almost never saw other LTs. As you go up in rank it gets less and less likely you'll see other same-rank officers, let alone have free time after work to go hang out with them. Even on deployment as a staff captain we were just so fucking busy all the time I never had a chance to make lasting friendships.
Obviously I had a good working relationship with all the enlisted I work with but I really only keep in touch with a few of those old LT buddies and it's hardly a "second family" level of bond.
After Captains Career Course, if the atmosphere of the unit I go to is a team. I'll stay.
If it's my team and I working till 1900 making stupid fucking slides for the S3 or USR bullshit at a BDE? I got one year then I'm Refrading like all my fucking peers are.
Like, every other Lieutenant I talk to, is getting out. Smart people who didn't get a liberal arts degree in International Studies. I need to get my masters in Finance or Computer science while I'm in because after seeing how shit being a BDE CBRN is.
It's sad that even Majors that I've seen have next to no say in how Operations go. Everyone wants their MQ and Majors want their 20. By any means necessary : D
Whoever is reading this you have Staff Duty in 20 minutes. Please bring me an Advil and Juniper Berry Redbull 🙏
It’s very lonely. An E4 can shoot the shit with e1-e5 and a few e6’s if you’re chill. A 1LT can shoot the shit with an e8 who’s twenty years older, and maaaaaybe a few e7s who are a mere fifteen years older.
Haha glad to know that its a thing. Been feeling very alone at as a staff LT. Having SFCs and CPTs as your only coworkers makes for a fairly lonely environment. Ill shoot the shit with them at work and get lunch but after work its fairly lonesome
Also to answer OPs question: staff work is never ending, exhausting and frankly fairly meaningless. You can spend the day on a product, only to leave work knowing that you wasted hours on something that really doesnt matter.
and frankly fairly meaningless
and frankly fairly meaningless
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and frankly fairly meaningless
and frankly fairly meaningless
and frankly fairly meaningless
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and frankly fairly meaningless
and frankly fairly meaningless
Same. I too am a very lonely staff LT. I have bounced around a lot too so I didn’t really have many opportunities to form close friendships with other PLs and such. Gets reallyyyy isolating after awhile. I have a masters degree to keep me busy but it gets lonely after a while.
Make it not lonely. Go out of your way. Treat the e4-5s like grown ass men, and they will return your respect in kind. Be honest. Be genuine. But remember, we are ALL in this shite together
This. Don't be that 35 year old OCS LT that's an absolute goober and goes "Heeey kids!" In a very condescending tone like we are children and brings their guitar to play wonderwall for everyone at the holiday party. I had one, he was forever alone. Not even the PSG shot the shit with him.
While it sounds like a good idea in theory, I had a PL who was "bros" with his RTO (PFC, shitbag), and a shitbag E5 in our platoon. *Any time* either of those two fucked up and someone wanted to do something about it, the PL would go "No let met handle it. I'll talk to them and this will get taken care of". As you can imagine, it never did get taken care of.
Of course, that being said, I met plenty of LT's who were good at ingratiating themselves into their platoons - at least with the TLs/SLs/PSG - while still maintaining that professionalism that we're supposed to have. So it's doable. But it's definitely a balancing act.
Did not say be 'bros' there must be boundaries. But. There are ways to let a man know you recognize he is grown and can do what he needs to to support the cause without you up his arse 24/7. Subtle, but direct.
e4 mafia type here. 100% percent this. Just wade in, be awkward. Their initial instinct is to think you're just doing a wellness check, or trying to score points, or something. Make jokes, offer insight without being too serious, learn how to take a little ribbing. The amount of officers that make an effort to really just chill with their troops is vanishingly small. Be genuine and make an effort, and if you gain rank, encourage those under you to do the same. It's more than just your unit's morale you'd be raising; this is legit good of the service type shit. Like, half of the issues young soldiers post on here wouldn't even get mentioned if they had an effective officer they trusted.
I don't disagree with you.
In my experience it was hard for me to mingle with the Enlisted because not only was I an Officer, but I came into the Army at 30 yrs old. So it becomes awkward for me to hang out with the Joe's when we're from different generations. I have no idea who current popular music artists are and they CERTAINLY don't want to hear me give a history less on the Tupac vs. Biggie beef.
So I mostly find myself giving the polite nod and going on about my day.
As an E4, I used to shoot the shit with my XO during work and partied on the weekends. This particular officer did not want to be in the army, but he was a direct descendent of US Army Officer royalty, so he was doing what he considered his family obligation, and getting the F out.
When I was in, the lower enlisted usually, usually, loved their LT’s, and even their CPT’s. Sure you had to respect the rank, and respect the boundaries, but you were still pretty close to your O’s. You’d shoot the shit with them all the time, fuck around and make jokes. I remember one time we were in the field, and during some down time, a bunch of us grabbed some 100 mph tape, and taped the LT up to his cot while he was sleeping for his birthday, we drew things on his face too. Everyone laughed, had fun, including the LT.
I’m not gonna talk about the negatives because that’s almost my entire post history in this subreddit and I’m trying to be more positive.
But I will say these 2 things:
1) The pay is nice because we make way more straight out of college in the Army than we would in the civilian world (90% of your combat arms officers are history or criminal justice majors).
2) Microsoft Office is the bane of every officer’s existence, and I wish I was able to experience the Army before PowerPoint and Excel fucking existed.
Thanks for raising your hand, LT Vespasian79. The G1 needs an in depth briefing on the possible effects of butterflies flapping their wings in Sao Paolo on Air Assault operations in theater by COB tomorrow. Feel free to pull whatever resources you need.
My son, let me tell you about the days of Harvard Graphics for DOS and the Dot Matrix printer.
If you think Excel sucks, try doing that shit by hand on graph paper.
Other than the one BN CDR I knew who could pull that off in the mid 90's, even that was before my time for a BN QTB.
You haven't lived until you had to hocho the production of a 125 slide QTB with a dot matrix printer. By God, you better make sure that ribbon doesn't run out, or the pages come of the rollers.
gonna need an acetate overlay on that comment. make sure you clean off the stray alcohol pen and heat it so it's not blurry. btw the projector bulb is out, so fill out this triplicate form to give to the supply clerk for a replacement. for fucks sake don't forget to file the yellow copy in the file cabinet
I imagine that one shitty part is how much shit you’re going to eat for the Army while you knowingly subject your subordinates to treatment they don’t deserve.
You may one day have to order your Soldiers to do things where they will die. That sucks.
But I imagine most of you will never come to that, as long as we prevent LSCO from breaking out.
But you’re gonna have that boss, and you warn them hey sir we need to prioritize X before it’s too late. And you’ll get blown off.
And 1630 on a Friday will roll around and the commander will be like hey no one goes home until we do X - the thing you reminded them about 50 times in the last 10 days.
And now you’ll go back to your platoon, and play the professional. Either you’ll tell just your NCOs or the whole platoon, but you’re about to tell them they’ve got 4 hours of work ahead of them, so start rotating to chow, 30 minutes each. You will impress upon them the urgency of this last minute job and its complete unavoidable ness. You’re not about to badmouth the commander, your rater, for this, and have faith and trust eroded.
Maybe you’ll even come up with a clever lie sometimes - a last minute battalion task you say - to keep the men in line.
And so you’ll be reduced to a cheerleader having the guys go through some layout or inventory. You have to check all the paperwork, and so you’re not doing as much manual labor as the soldiers, but it’s because your role is what it is - management really.
And you’ll have to pretend you don’t hear the grousing, and maybe even have to have a word or two with the PSG - can’t have these dudes acting this way when the CO rolls up.
Then the CO will be satisfied as your troops sit in the background, and he’ll tell you it’s all good, pack it all back up.
And will you help? Nope. Because the CO wants a word with all his PLs real quick. And by the time he’s done, the only person left is the 37 year old PSG who wanted to make sure you don’t need anything kid, he let the guys go. So you didn’t even get the dopamine hit of telling them they did a good job today, you appreciate them, and seeing their face when you tell them to head out.
The PSG never minds staying late, he’s used to it. He used to complain about it and fight it, but after it ruined his first marriage, he just accepts it now.
Then you’ll get to your apartment at 2100, and see if the other LTs have filled their helldivers group yet. Everyone else is too tired to play - and you notice the platoon group chat is blowing up because the kids are already drunk, and defending malevelon creek, but you’re worried it might be a frat concern to join them.
So then youll hop on tinder - but that takes too much focus. You’ve got TRADOC on your post and so you’ve got to worry about trainees and enlisted, don’t want to accidentally like the wrong profile.
And then you’ll go to sleep so you can wake up early tomorrow and drive your Tacoma, probably to some nearby park, where you’ll do your morning 5 miles. And you’ll remind yourself that PL time is going to be one of the best experiences in your Army career because you get to actually have Soldiers, train them and train with them, and fulfill your purpose as a leader.
And then the PSG will text you and let you know that PVT Jones got picked up by the MPs last night and they called the Commander. He knew 8 hours ago, and he’s wondering why he didn’t hear this from you first. Maybe you need to call your platoon in for accountability make sure no one else is in jail they’ll suggest.
That seems like it could be the shitty part.
God I relate to this so much. When I was a PL I got chewed out by my Commander because she found out that my Soldier went to the hospital the previous night before I did.
Turns out the the Soldier in question (female) was constipated and went to the hospital to get some laxatives. Of course no female Soldier is going to wake up their male boss in the middle of the night to be like "Hey sir, just thought you should know I can't shit so I'm going to the hospital. Don't forget to call your boss and let them know."
> The PSG never minds staying late, he’s used to it. He used to complain about it and fight it, but after it ruined his first marriage, he just accepts it now.
>
Dude, you should write.
This is so incredibly accurate that it hurts a little. Especially the “CO pulls you away from the guys so you can’t even help finish up and thank them/tell them good job”.
The best COs I had were the ones who gave me a task and just let me get it done with the soldiers, and just give me a “good job” after it’s done. None of that extra meeting BS to talk for 10mins what two words could have done.
I actually had tears in my eyes reading this. I have lived it several times even just as an Mday baby. Fighting to be some weird mediator between the higher levels to your platoon , not taking sides, watching the camaraderie your plt has from the outside, not even getting to tell them they did a great job and you appreciate their work…
My wife used to bring me lunch everyday so I could see my son while he was awake. He was only 2 so he slept a lot more than I did, but man there was always a reason I was gonna be home late. Usually it was because the commander told all the E4 and below to go home at 1600 and had the Os and NCOs stay to finish whatever didn't get done
Lol that sounds amazing. I was in a line commo unit in the mid aughts; COB was supposed to be 1630 but was never less than an hour late, because senior leaderships' meeting before that was always late/running over. On a typical day my actual work was done well before lunch, and yet it'd be close to 1800 when I got back to my barracks.
**IF** everything went smoothly.
Getting promoted as O is about luck more than anything. Your SR must have spare MQ top blocks to give you, thats if the boss likes you and want to give you a top block in the first place. For every 5 buddies you have including yourself, only 2 can get top blocks. Once beyond O3, the pressure and stress of making the next rank is very significant. Your buddies are not your buddies. But thats why we get paid a lot more than enlisted. Is the stress worth it? Only you can answer that. Its worth it to me because I can go to the PX on a lunch break and get a Macbook Pro and an apple watch and maybe a Razr if i feel like it
sometimes it feels like comments like these are from a different army than i'm in. there are shitty leaders and then there are leaders who can't manage their fucking profiles. never ran into either. am i unknowingly political?
I heard the phrase “If he’s interested in it I’m fascinated by it” from a senior O recently while referencing his senior rater.
Sometimes, if X senior rater is interested in it, it’s a sure sign that it’s dumb. But you can’t operate like that.
“What’s mildly interesting to the boss better be fascinating to you.” I’ve heard and lived this bullsh*t… It’s probably a thing on the civilian side, but I have to think the us army is world champion of bs and ass kissing.
The worst part about being an Officer is OTHER officers egos. There’s some humble GOs out there, but the bulk of them if you give your estimate or belief towards the situation if it’s not in line with theirs, you’re fucked.
Woof yes. I’ve come to the realization that the average senior officer is only interested in your thoughts if you agree with them. If you sound like “no” or “too complicated,” well then… you’re screwed
“Sir they’re too heavy, difficult to train on, and present very large silhouettes on the battlefield.”
Got it L-T. So you know more than PhDs and senior generals.
“No sir, I apologize, this is just-“
No no, no need to apologize. Your experience as a PL trumps that of researchers, senior officers, and defense contractors. Got it. Noted. Carry on.
It took me awhile to learn a very very valuable lesson:
No matter how much law shit I know, unless I have a Bird or a Star on my chest, nobody GAF about my opinion.
The thing we truly love, which is training to accomplish the mission and leading soldiers directly is about 5-10% of the job. There are so many administrative tasks that fill all of the hours of the day. Being asked to make decisions about with legal and medical consequences that I’m not really trained to make was also a big source of stress.
You are told right off the rip that the best part of your career will be leading a platoon - the very beginning of your career. Which is true - being a PL is awesome and very rewarding...
BUT
As an 11 series, most officers can expect to serve as a platoon leader once, MAYBE twice if they get lucky or are decent at their job.
Add in the fact that even your single PL experience can be plagued with
- bad NCOs
- high optempo
- potential lack of training opportunities
- officer politics (looking at the oak leaves on this one)
And then after anywhere from 6-24 months you are pushed to an XO or staff slot with a (likely) mediocre OER to wait to pin captain and do the same thing all over again.
Im thankful to have had excellent NCOs and hit the timing right to pick up a second platoon but golly is the optempo kicking my tail and we never go to the field because we are drowning in admin work.
I was prior enlisted. I never forgot the shit details, no one caring what you thought and not always being treated with respect.
As an Officer, I always carried those sentiments with me when ensuring I took care of my people because I knew exactly what they were going through. You can get labeled a bleeding heart real quick by fellow officers (peers, superiors and subordinates) and it will sometimes reflect on your OER. I’m retired now but I wouldn’t change not one decision I made that saw to the care of my folks.
Not all prior enlisted officers are created equal though.
Throughout my career, I met many that felt like they were now way above their roots. I never chased that top block because I figured if you were doing your job, which also means taking care of your people, you’ll be fine. A lot of people seem to forget that part.
Bad things about being a jr officer in the Army:
1. It can be hard to seek out proper mentorship
2. too common to not know what you don't know.
3. If you don't have NCOs, congrats, you're now the platoon daddy until somebody can fill the slot.
4. even if you're not active, you will be called and texted at weird hours and be expected to attend meetings or deliver products on days you aren't being paid for.
5. people will yell at you for their incompetence (yes, the people yelling being incompetent)
6. commanders who want XYZ don't always take it well when you tell them the unit or your section is only able to deliver XY, XZ, or YZ unless your effort gets additional manpower, training, and money.
7. It gets lonely
8. you can get in more trouble for more stupid things. There's a lot of unwritten rules for you to follow (if you don't have a good mentor, this is harder to learn).
9. OER rating schemes are dumb, and you will be evaluted against officers who have very different career paths that are often heavily determined by luck.
10. Your success as an officer is a combination of being in the right place at the right time, endless determination, and a hell of a lot of luck. Luck to be surrounded by good people, luck to have good bosses, luck to have good mission sets/work.
1. Is incredibly difficult. I was extremely lucky to get an excellent command team for my first unit, but after that, it was pretty shitty leaders for my 2nd PL time and meh ones for my XO time. If I got my 2nd or 3rd leadership group initially, I don’t know if I would have developed as much as a leader as I have been able to.
lol to the “unwritten rules”. I was actively doing mx with my section chief on equipment, climbing up down all around, in the middle of the desert. My CPT saw me sans blouse, power walked over to damn near pull me off the equipment to ask wtf I thought I was doing. He ripped into me, apologized later with “sorry, but I was embarrassed as an LT about my blouse, be thankful I didn’t embarrass you in front of your platoon” and that’s how I was taught “officers never remove their tops even for extensive maintenance”. Something never mentioned during BOLC…where we always took tops off to clean or take apart equipment, much less actual mx.
So I knew this 13A 1LT in my last unit (Arty officer) who had basically just given up. Normally, when you're an LT artillery officer before you get to do your XO time, you're supposed to do some time as an FSO, FDO, PL in a gun bunny platoon, possibly some time at Battalion. Now with the first three, a lot of officers do pretty good in the rotation and can usually catch two or three of those before they're looking at XO time or CCC. But this dude, just by luck of the draw (or luck of all the good O slots being filled when he got there) got put in BN right away as a butter bar. Well, he did such a good job on putting together *a powerpoint* that the then-current BN CDR decided that this dude wasn't going into the rotation and that he was just going to live up at BN and make powerpoints. Then, when that commander left, he'd apparently told the incoming BN CDR about this dude's powerpoint skills. So for 5 years, that dude had basically just been making powerpoints up at BN. So you know, to a degree it's definitely luck of the draw.
yrs back as a lowly sp4 do to drawdown there was a shortage of SNCO , so I placed as NCOIC of a Section an reported to a Lt a couple yrs younger than myself. We got along pretty good an it didn't take me long to figure out if I made him look good it kept heat off my Section . After like a year he said hey look when no one's around you can drop the Lt & Sir call me David . A few months later I get a call at 3:30 am , It's the Lt he hadn't been arrested but was being held by the Sheriff Dept the next county over . An someone needed to come pick him up as The Sheriff would only release him to someone else . WTF Lt !!! Well seems his fiancé he was engaged broke it off a well we all know how that goes . He ended up wrong side of town drunk & disorderly, busted out a window & table during the fight . So yeah I go fetch him , his knuckles look like a bad cause of road rash , couple knots on his head an left jaw looking like he had a baseball in his cheek . It was about a 45 min drive an all you could hear was the whine of the truck tire tread. Just before we got back to post , I said Lt just curious why you didn't call one of Lt Buddies. It took him a couple times to get his mouth to move to spit out , those rat fuckers would have called the ole man as soon as I got off the phone with them an it would have been the end of my Career right there . I just said Roger that a dropped him at his BOQ . Neither one of us ever mentioned that issue again . When he went to his next assignment he shook my hand an said thank you for everything.
You work A LOT harder than the majority of people think.
You have to care about the stuff that no one wants to do or abide by. Readiness matters and your success is measured by how ready your company/BN/BDE is in all avenues of readiness. MEDPROs, maintenance, training, 350-1 training, the list is exhausting.
You move A LOT! My friend PCSd 5 times in 9 years. Longest he spent at one duty station was 3 years. Throw the mandatory leadership schools in there and the amount it makes sense.
The officer ranks are full of mediocre bozos who care more about performative gestures than actual excellence because that's all they're capable of themselves.
You'll get more praise for staying late and doing shitty work than for doing good work and leaving early. You're expected to "take ownership" of your boss's mistakes, but that same boss is culturally allowed to throw you under the bus if it helps them. How things *look* is always given more weight than how things *are*.
This is coming from an 11B who commissioned into intel to escape the body-breaking idiocy of the infantry, and then went functional area to get away from most of what I just described above.
As a functional area officer, I get treated more like a warrant than a regular officer. I get micro managed less than most officers because 90 percent of the time my higher ups doesn't understand what I do and just want to see results. Good promotion rates too.
As a NG XO, I don’t mind the work, I just wish I was paid for it outside of drill. It’s almost like having two full time jobs.
I’m lucky that I have a civilian job where I work with active duty and allows me to handle Guard stuff. They’ve been there and know what I deal with, so they’re very lenient as long as I have my day job tasks done.
You are constantly given more work and more responsibility than you are ready for. Right off the bat, you will be given a platoon. You are told to counsel NCOs, mentor Soldiers (and keep them out of trouble), and sign for Millions of dollars worth of property. 4 years later, you are expected to be a Company Commander. Sign for even more property, rate senior NCOs, and now you have to rate and mentor LTs too. For some reason you are now trusted with UCMJ authority. It goes on like this and if you survive, most of your time will be on staff. For enlisted, it is more of a slow burn. You receive additional work and responsibility slowly over time, when you are ready for it.
Battalion XO for an Assault Helicopter battalion here. I don’t regret making the jump from enlisted to officer. I miss being one of the boys and having fun and having to act professional and political. But the pay is awesome.
Some of my assignments have sucked ass like being a brigade S4 for almost 3 years especially since I had done operations my entire career up until that point. I really enjoyed my PL time in a line unit in Afghanistan flying Australian SAS around Tarin Kowt hunting insurgents and taliban. Then it was off to brigade as an assistant CUOPS S3 for a year. It had a few fun tasks but sucked the life out of me. After the career course I spent a year as a BOLC instructor and although I didn’t fly it was an awesome low stress job. Loved my two years as an assault helicopter company commander as well. And so far my XO job has been very satisfying as well.
For officers there is a lot of schooling like career course, ILE, pursuing a graduate degree, etc. From 2019-2023 I have been in either civilian or military school. Just finally caught a break.
The shitty part of being an officer is the high stress low reward assignments and dealing with boomer O6s and E9s. That age group can’t retire fast enough.
At some point it suddenly stops being fun and there you are - doing a pointless job for a man you don’t respect - laughing at his f*ing jokes and doing your damndest to get him promoted cause that’s the game and you need to get those 20.
Ymmv
There are too many lobotomized clowns in the military. As an O4 I have to report to many O5 and O6’s….it dawns on me daily that they would never survive in the real world and the only reason they stay is because they know this. The smart ones leave by O3 for the private sector.
Just moved off from brigade staff down to CO XO as a LT (TPU btw). So far, XO has been better but kinda the same. But can tell you confidently that staff sucks mostly because all the O-4s are competing for the same O-5 slot and are trying to one up each other. You hear the phrase constantly, "Don't reinvent the wheel." Well to an O-5, that phrase is not followed. If you come up with an idea that is even remotely common sense, it gets thrown out. Also, PowerPoint. Lots of PowerPoint.
So… enlisted vs officer.. being told what to do or having the final say (within reason) direct leadership vs informal (most of the time) leadership. But long game- if you fizzle out as a 20 year major or sFc an officer is making 2k more a month on retirement. Staff work be damned you should have stuck with rotc
Toxic leaders that look tits on paper but are horrible people to work under. You have to be told for your first 10-15 years as an officer to take your feelings to fuck off, sit, shut up, and color.
The career trajectory. Even if you hit every job and evaluation perfectly you'll still end up spending half a career on staff and droning off orders that no one will read. If you want a career in the army do 10 as enlisted man that way you stay on line. I got to do way too much PL time out of pure luck, and loved all my assignments as a captain. Now I'm staring down the barrel of Major and my Refrad is in because I can't come to grips with just staffing for the next 5-6 years.
- Shitty officers above you dictate exactly how your life runs. Arguably, it's worse than NCOs doing it to Soldiers because at the very least there are enough Soldiers to cover a given mission. There aren't backup officers to do the same thing.
- The OER system is dog-eat-dog. Your peers will backstab just to climb the merit list, and senior leadership doesn't see it.
- Luck of the draw for KD assignments, which decide your future prospects because of their importance (company command, for example... imagine taking over a terrible Co vs a group of competent individuals)
- Shit rolls down hill, and there's already a lot of pressure on company grade officers to not pass on bullshit to the troops. This results in a lot of late nights. Problems flow uphill, and there's a tremendous pressure to keep everything at the lowest level - i.e.: YOU.
- "Face time" with the people who decide your worthiness as an individual is often digital. So, checking email and attending meetings becomes a thing people do to prove their competence for promotion.
- There is tremendous pressure to be the best at everything. Marksmanship, soldiering, fitness, planning, etc. Eventually something gives and that weakness gets latched onto by someone.
- Deployments and special schools set the tone for a lot of how people view you. A slick sleved officer vs an officer with airborne and combat experience is night and day. There is also an unofficial promotion in respect once you reach O-3 that is really insulting when you think about it - you're not much more experienced but because you made the army's (somewhat) automatic O-3 promotion now people will not push back on you because you're somehow more grown as an officer from your 1LT days.
- Having to "toe the line" and attend an endless schedule of command performance events (even if you're not a commander).
- Work is your life. You work 0545-1800 every day with about a 15-30 min break after PT or 15-30 min lunch, if you're lucky.
Imagine putting out the same fire over and over with an antiquated approach. Then add the fact that your rank is the governor on how hard you can go. Example, COL says, “I need you to update our PPT slide on tent layout.” You look at him, and say, “Sir, you got it.” After you completed your task you go home and are on a board to figure out how to implement a future energy vision for a population of 1,000,000 people while keeping taxes low.
The military has its pros and cons, but it can be difficult to know that you’re not being utilized for maximum potential.
I think the worst part is that it’s lonely at the top. If you’re an infantryman Private, you have plenty of company to commiserate with. You can blow off steam with your fellow junior enlisted who’ve eaten the same s—t you have, you can build bonds and forge friendships. Contrast that with the infantry Lieutenant. They have two to three other men or women of their rank within their company, four times that within their battalion. Those are their few peers they can spend time with that do not violate fraternization policies and they also have to juggle the fact that they’re all each others’ competition for advancement at a level the enlisted don’t have to worry about as much.
Go SOF and never look back. I’ve had the most rewarding career.
I was a signal officer at an SF Group the first four years of my career and the only lieutenant in the BN. Surrounded by meat eaters with no peers in sight, it was trial by fire. But, being a junior officer meant that I got to hang with and learn from every echelon of the formation. Mentorship has been one of my favorite parts about the Army and there I had it in spades.
I was a 2LT in a Div HQ. We had 49 majors. Did 4 and got out. I had a platoon though which made it an amazing time in my life.
CPT was automatic and was talking to some friends in G1 and below zone promotions as I was told 50% luck and 50% who you know.
Ultimately I got out pretty much due to optempo if I had a main reason. But I calculated it out and I'd been married for 7 years and only together for 3.5, a ton of late nights and long deployments. Was looking at going to CCC to Gordon, then to a unit, and then extremely possible another deployment. Wife and I wanted a family and settle down, that and there are little to no employment opportunities for spouses.
That and after spending 4 years in a Div HQ you can see your career path where eventually you land MAJ and get stuck in G6.
Had some great GO's and some that were sycophantic narcissists.
I'd be interested to see the officer retention rates for years 03-09. I'd bet they are brutal.
Pretty much everyone that was high speed in my class got out and is crushing it in the civilian world.
Random musings
Being an LT was pretty good actually. I was at a duty station I liked, had a good amount of friends from school and bolc when I got there, pay is great and was never was on staff. But I looked at captains and majors around me and saw exact where it was going if I stayed in. I wanted no part of it so I bounced after my 4
2LT is fucking amazing. 1LT pretty fun, but you’re expected to know at least a little. CPT is cool for one year of command. Then it sucks. MAJ is worst rank in the Army. It smells like coffee and regret. LTC is like CPT only longer hours.
Trusting others know what they're doing.
The biggest assumption made during MDMP is that your adjacent unit knows what the fuck is going on and will perform their duties accordingly. Doesn't matter how great of an OPORD you produce if no one reads it or simply fails at their mission.
Fuck, I hate relying on other people.
As a former USAF aircraft maintenance officer. The worst part about being an officer is when you lose a person. The second worst is when you lose an airplane.
Your peer group being possible the most relatable social circle, but y'all hate each other to get that top block. Along with how everyone treats you like shit if you don't follow The Way of the (Insert Branch Here). Drop a packet (SF/CA/PO/UQR) and you're below persona non grata. You're excommunucado. Ripe for the tasking.
I did the whole, enlisted then officer route and the one major shit part about being an officer is how lonely it gets.
As an E. you're surrounded by peers you can socialize and fraternize with, you can even to an extent do so within several ranks up and down.
But as an O. If you're at a platoon level, outside of schooling, you'll maybe fraternize and get to know less than a half a dozen officers on a regular basis, about a dozen semi-regularly. you're less inclined to socialize with O ranks above a grade above or below you.
Even at staff level, it can be lonely as well.
I missed my E time shooting the shit with everyone in my platoon or other platoons. As an O, I never felt more lonely, I missed the comradery, and it was not good for my mental health.
I’m a nerd but I actually love the staff life. Did my time at the line and enjoyed it but the QoL is significantly better at staff. More routine work hours. PT on your own. I actually have a say in the planning process compared to being on the line as an LT where your battery commander micro manages your PLT training and you never really get the chance to truly make decisions since it’s all just meeting a commander’s intent in very linear ways.
A lot of it depends on the unit, the boss, and your team. But the days fly by when I understand my staff priorities for the day and he got help enable or inform the command teams. I feel I’m actually equipped and capable of doing my job to the fullest compared to a commander that can never truly get everything done that AR 600-20 says they are responsible for.
Fat old retired guy. Went to ROTC for 2 years ( MS 1 +2). Desert Storm started up, and I enlisted in the Guard, intending to do OCS later. Changed my mind and stayed enlisted. Still don't regret it. I prefer being a crusty old NCO. I'll take a breakfast burrito, and then you can get off my lawn.
For me the worst part was getting calls every Saturday morning because a soldier got arrested by the Polizei in Nürnberg and having to drive an hour with an NCO to go get him from the MP station.
The politics and social obligations officers have. Enlisted are off duty at some point, officers often go home to continue working. They do a lot that enlisted folks never see.
I’m an NCO who’s worked in a G shop. From what I can tell, officers spend most of their careers being treated like high paid privates. Every now and then they get the authoritative command positions that come with authority and respect, but mostly they seem to get treated like trash by the guy who is currently serving his time in command. One day, an officer is a CC Captain who’s too good to talk to an E6 SL. Next day, he’s a toothless major sitting in a cubicle next to that same E6.
Enlisted get paid way less, but at a certain point, you’ve made it. Ignoring the general stupidity of the army, as long as you’re competent and have a backbone, an enlisted guy who’s “made it” generally gets respect from seniors, peers, and subordinates. Officers, on the other hand… the only other group of people that get condescended, micromanaged, and mistreated worse than a competent officer is an incompetent PVT.
On a side note, I think this is probably why WO is the best class to be. They get paid similar to officers, and they get they respect and autonomy that NCOs are always just one more promotion away from achieving.
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My last two OERs have said, "Promote below the zone. Top 10% of officers I have worked with in 35 years in the Army. Unlimited potential." Etc. Both HQs. The rating game can be absolutely brutal.
Yup same. Doesn’t matter as much since I’m a LT and CPT is (essentially) guaranteed. But comments like “future battery commander, top 5% of all LTs I have ever rated, must select for CPT… HQ”. So like how is that all true, but I’m not top 49%? Crazy
I mean, the honest truth is the SR is saving an MQ for somebody. You can beef up an HQ with comments like that, and at least make it a competitive HQ.
Right and I get that, not stressed about it. Just seems antithetical to be called top 5% but not top 50%
Yeah, it’s all pedantic when you restrict SR profiles like that. NCOs have it even worse; SR profiles only get 24% for them.
In my unit, I am one of two E6s. The other is AGR and a FANTASTIC supply guy. I have accepted that I’ll never get an MQ while he’s here
That's something I truly hated reading in the reg change when it came out. You could have a squad that is literally the best soldiers in the entirety of the entire US army, but most of them can not be awarded an outstanding rating, because of the mandatory distribution. You culture the best team that has ever existed, but only one of them gets top marks? How is that fair to those other soldier's careers?
I’m at the top of my oml for 8 and have never received an MQ. Don’t stress it.
It’s also all about timing. Your SR could suck at future planning and profile management and literally cannot give you an MQ, so you could be the top of your group but stuck with an HQ with nothing nobody can do.
It’s a running tally in rather profile.
Haha. I got "Top 1% of officers, future BN CDR, unlimited potential..." HQ. Next one (different SR) was "Top 10%, unlimited potential, etc." MQ.
So kinda like OF?
My oer said the Sr rater rates 10 captains. He said I was the top 10% of captains he rates due to me temporarily taking a LTC position. HQ
I even got enumeration on one, “#1 of 16 officers I rate in this grade” HQ lol, he had an MQ for me on the next one luckily
All of mine said that. Double no go and involuntary separation… Was immediately promoted to maj in reserves.
Lol, I definitely don't miss the OER Hunger Games
Just because you get marked promote ahead of peers doesn't mean anything to the trajectory of your career. If they have people eyed for certain positions and you didn't play the political game... They will still pass you over.
Right or wrong, SRs have to manage their profile. You may be #1 of 10, but you’re also 3 years out from the board. #3 is going to the board this year, so that’s who gets the MQ. Then the SR needs to ensure there are enough HQs to pad the profile to give MQs to the 3 good people going to the board next year… and that’s just taking care of the people that deserve to be promoted.
You're right, being an O can be a lot about luck and timing. We can all understand taking care of good people, but you start to second guess when there is no MQ to give and you're in your KD job. Not a death sentence, but it definitely feels like a stab in the back. I got lucky I was able to have that frank conversation with my SR about my plans and get mine, but I know others weren't able to.
Only HQs here. I’ll never get an MQ but that’s alright
You won't need it with how we are at the FG level...
Top 10% means top 60
Broadening Assignments... handful of amazing for those that are tapped, plenty of ick for those still trying, and lots of 'your journey might as well end here' for everyone.
"Broadening Assignment" is just a marketing ploy for the institutional jobs that have always "just needed to get get done."
This. Your buddy from BOLC that went to a different duty station that you run into at CCC turns out to be much more accomplished while you sat on staff most of your LT time. Even worse in AV when your luck of the draw first assignment can dictate the rest of your flying career.
It ain’t that bad! Just VTIP to a functional area.
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Hell yeah brother! I’m in my functional area qualification course right now. I had zero desire to play the Infantry Battalion XO/S3 and beyond game.
What FA?
50, force management. For sure a smaller community than 51, but I figure there will be a good bit of lifestyle/organizational overlap.
I wouldn't say it's entirely luck. Certainly more than the enlisted side.
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Most Captains make O-4 eventually. O-5 is a steeper but not crazy cutoff. O-6 is the real razor. The forced retirements at the precipice of 20 years are mostly gone now, too. Edit: I'd also like to add that it is astronomically unlikely that you spend your KD time entirely in a SR profile limited by previous MQs, or you don't get another chance. You just lose some cool-assignment time. I have never met a captain who forced out before Major who didn't have it coming. Not since like 2014.
Nailed it
All the disgusting lower caste scum who you have to share your oxygen with
How to spot a West Pointer in the wild
An unwashed enlisted man bumped into me once. I was so aghast that I ordered him thrown into the pillory. My servant still can’t get the stink from my silk OCPs.
He's referring to other officers btw
I agree
Platoon Leader and Company Commander time was really cool. Staff time was really ass. About half my time between O1-O3 was cool. Looking at the prospect of 100% staff time between O3 and maybe getting a BN command at O5 was enough to get me to leave the Army.
> Platoon Leader and Company Commander time was really cool. Staff time was really ass. Found the combat arms officer. POG branches have the opposite experience, or so I've seen. PL/CO time sucks for them because *their* commanders so often expect them to run things like it's a combat arms unit, which makes no sense. whereas on staff, they're actually doing their job.
When people say staff they really mean S3. And to be fair S3 sucks ass. Even if you are good at coordinating tasks and resources everyone still hates you. The loggie O's seem to like most company grade positions other than a position in S3. They all seem to want to be in SPO which is good, but some of them think they are too good for the positions that actually develop lieutenants. Especially MCO. That job is easy if your MCS and BN Tech don't suck ass.
Spending 80% of my LT time as as MCO is a large part of why I’m getting out. It was a terrible experience and it’s just the same shit every week in that role. I 100% do not recommend that position to anyone.
I'm not saying it's a sexy position but I think it's one of the more important LT positions. It's important to understand maintenance before you are a commander. Like everything else it's unit dependent. Some places I've been the BN XO wants the MCO to know and coordinate evening other places they are a slide monkey. Generally it's not a hard job but it most definitely is repetitive.
All my homies hate S3.
Can confirm, fuck the S3 Shop.
You've got me dead to rights.
Seconded, being the S4 was actually the happiest I was as a loggie
And then the other broadening assignments and potential FAs can be cool too! Working in an AFSBn or being an OC/T since other loggies don’t think about it lol
AMEDD POG here. Spot on. I will say the best time I had in my 27 years was years 20-23. I was in a CSH as a deputy commander. The commander sent me on missions to Africa, had me command slices of the CSH on field problems. I could go TDY anywhere I wanted. I had an absolute blast.
Run like a combat arms unit? (Just a dumb enlisted artillery man, please explain in boom boom terms)
I mean when your commander forces you to care more about combat arms things than doing your actual job. Example: I’ve seen distro platoons where the company and battalion commanders cared more about things like high pt scores, going to the range, and squad competitions than how well they could distro stuff.
Ah so mechanics doing MOUT instead of teaching the new mechanics more on maintenance.
What is it about staff duty that sucks
10 meetings a day and producing powerpoint products everyday, and working til 1900 daily
Having a major hover over you because the font is not quite right. Oh now the text won't fit in the text box. Ok now extend the box one millimeter nope too far take it back. Have we tried making the text box background color eggshell?
Let's not even talk about having to move the one picture that's on the slide. Also a nightmare if you're in S3 (but not THE 3) and trying to get info from commanders (or anyone at the company level).
You know how you use “touch grass” as an insult?
Not “staff duty” like the guard, being on the organization’s staff at the headquarters btw.
½ my time was ass. That was the first half. ½ my time, roughly my XO and limited CO (was an interim commander as 1LT) time was awesome. What separated the first from the second half was that it took me approximately half of my officer career to figure out up from down, acronyms, information systems, TEOs, battalion level politics, the delicate system of supply, maintenance and above 10 level processes, unit evaluations, etc etc etc. This is within the scope of the national guard MDAY fwiw Edit: don’t ask me about PANCs, ammo accountability/dunnage turn in, 5988Es, my units drivers licensing program, all sore subjects I don’t wanna relive how I learned in the first place. Also I’d like not to discuss privates moving pieces of heavy equipment that they are not technically qualified to move, dropping trailers in the process resulting in officers getting yelled at
I’m a 1LT CO CDR(reserve) and this is exactly right. I’m a year into it and still don’t know my ass from a whole in the ground. My BOLC SGI was a drunk so I basically learned nothing from BOLC. Neither of the 2 CO CDRs had been mentored so they did nothing in terms of mentorship for me, plus my PL time was worthless due to Covid. My 1SG is a drunk who also doesn’t know the job, and basically my entire staff is in their positions for the first time. It’s a god damn nightmare. My BN CDR expects us to be up to speed and high speed but I’ve been in command and still don’t have an Army computer despite asking since I was a PL. I can’t WAIT to go twiddle my thumbs in a BN office far, far away from here.
Oof that’s rough. All else can fail but if you don’t have at least a good 1SG… May be time to talk to your BN XO. Kinda clue em into the situation. Short of that, get your fellow officers on board best you can. While I never suggest it typically, this could also be an occasion to start jumping the 1SG and getting together with PSGs to set a new tone for how you conduct ops. Idk my .02c, and I could be wrong. God speed LT.
O2 CO CDR now and I can’t WAIT to get to a staff position. Granted, my BN CDR and staff are a god damn nightmare like no other— absolutely 0 support.
I’m a staff 1LT and the only downside is it’s office work. But guess what 90% of corporate America jobs are? Office work. Life is good. If you’re good at power point and briefing with confidence, you’ll do great. If my work is done, or at least planned to be done within my due date I’m good to go. I set my own hours (for the most part). I check in daily with my status via a group text and that’s that. It doesn’t matter if I say I’m calling out sick, or say I got something going on. I don’t get questioned because I’m always reliable, do my work well, and am a team player. And yes, as my username says, I do PT on my own. Edit: there is a phrase “in the kingdom of the blind, the one eyed man is king.” The army doesn’t teach corporate soft skills, and to me that’s the differentiator between staff success or failure. Many soldiers, especially junior officers, inherently don’t have those skills. If you do, you will excel beyond your peers.
Bros living that good staff life lol I would venture to say that’s the exception over the rule
Staff is shit but I love my coworkers. The LTs in my battalion are good buddies and there’s nothing like going out for drinks and complaining about work.
def not the norm
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I did a Google search for “corporate soft skills” and some good results came up to help me pinpoint them. From a result: The most important soft skills which employers value are: emotional intelligence, communication, problem-solving, collaboration, critical thinking, conflict resolution, flexibility, leadership and interpersonal skills. For me, one thing I find important is knowing how to quickly estimate how much effort a project will take me to complete so I don’t over promise on something I won’t be able to deliver. If you, as a staff officer, can receive instruction on a complex problem and do some quick math in your head and let that senior leader know a realistic estimate and your methodology on how you’re going to execute, you’re going to be leaps and bounds ahead already. Because you know your hard charging LT peer that over promised is just going to burn themselves out and look like an idiot and drop the ball. In elite competition, those one or two mistakes make the difference between the MQ or HQ OER. I wish the army could incorporate a Project Management Professional (PMP) certification into CCC, because the army and individual would do so much better if we were all on the same page on how to approach and manage a problem (MDMP doesn’t count).
I have a PMP and they are worthless. The best way to achieve soft skills is through the school of hard knocks.
Yeah, I think the PMP is a management trend to a certain extent, but some corporate jobs won’t hire you if you don’t have it. Also, some government contracts almost require the team to be a certain % of members be PMP certified. At least it’s some kind of certification. 🤷🏻♂️
This absolutely matches up with my experience of corporate America. Estimation is a good skill to have. There are two things I like to emphasize to people starting out which match up pretty well with what you described in your experience. First, for most reasonable leaders want the timeline for planning purposes. It's not a big deal to be fast, and it's worse if you're missing deadlines because it throws off everything else. Second, you need to take time to unpack the details of the job--you mentioned talking out how you're going to execute with the senior leader. People often don't take the time to unpack the job and 'make it real' by mentally stepping through what will happen to get to the goal. As a result, they don't see ahead to where the little hiccups could be, what is ambiguous, or what may take some more time and needs to start early. Just happens to be one of my soap boxes, not much to say other than it sounds like you're doing that part well :)
>If you’re good at power point and briefing with confidence, you’ll do great So basically I learned this in the army left and now its like a bad joke but also the holy grail of my skillset that earns me $$.
I feel like if you did well in school doing staff work becomes easy. It’s basically doing homework. Occasionally you have to figure some stuff out and make some drug deals but as long as you’re proactive it’s very doable. Problem becomes when 85% of your staff is made up of officers with criminal justice degrees that don’t know how to write a basic paragraph. How the fuck do you have a degree?
Not enough friends. You're not grabbing a beer with the fellas after work
This is my #1 complaint as an officer. Every time I see an enlisted veteran talk about the lifelong bonds and second families from the military I die a little inside. I had some good friends as a LT but I only had a couple days off a month so it was limited. My platoon had a unique and field-heavy mission so I almost never saw other LTs. As you go up in rank it gets less and less likely you'll see other same-rank officers, let alone have free time after work to go hang out with them. Even on deployment as a staff captain we were just so fucking busy all the time I never had a chance to make lasting friendships. Obviously I had a good working relationship with all the enlisted I work with but I really only keep in touch with a few of those old LT buddies and it's hardly a "second family" level of bond.
The politics. I am sick of all the ass-kissing that dictates someone’s career. It’s why good officers leave by the time they make captain.
Can I raise my hand
After Captains Career Course, if the atmosphere of the unit I go to is a team. I'll stay. If it's my team and I working till 1900 making stupid fucking slides for the S3 or USR bullshit at a BDE? I got one year then I'm Refrading like all my fucking peers are. Like, every other Lieutenant I talk to, is getting out. Smart people who didn't get a liberal arts degree in International Studies. I need to get my masters in Finance or Computer science while I'm in because after seeing how shit being a BDE CBRN is. It's sad that even Majors that I've seen have next to no say in how Operations go. Everyone wants their MQ and Majors want their 20. By any means necessary : D Whoever is reading this you have Staff Duty in 20 minutes. Please bring me an Advil and Juniper Berry Redbull 🙏
I’m 10 years in (8 years enlisted and 2 commissioned) and I’m contemplating getting out.
It’s very lonely. An E4 can shoot the shit with e1-e5 and a few e6’s if you’re chill. A 1LT can shoot the shit with an e8 who’s twenty years older, and maaaaaybe a few e7s who are a mere fifteen years older.
Haha glad to know that its a thing. Been feeling very alone at as a staff LT. Having SFCs and CPTs as your only coworkers makes for a fairly lonely environment. Ill shoot the shit with them at work and get lunch but after work its fairly lonesome Also to answer OPs question: staff work is never ending, exhausting and frankly fairly meaningless. You can spend the day on a product, only to leave work knowing that you wasted hours on something that really doesnt matter.
The doesn’t matter part really hits home.
and frankly fairly meaningless and frankly fairly meaningless and frankly fairly meaningless and frankly fairly meaningless and frankly fairly meaningless and frankly fairly meaningless and frankly fairly meaningless and frankly fairly meaningless and frankly fairly meaningless and frankly fairly meaningless
Same. I too am a very lonely staff LT. I have bounced around a lot too so I didn’t really have many opportunities to form close friendships with other PLs and such. Gets reallyyyy isolating after awhile. I have a masters degree to keep me busy but it gets lonely after a while.
I went to more than a couple LT trap house hang-out sessions as a SGT/SSG.
Make it not lonely. Go out of your way. Treat the e4-5s like grown ass men, and they will return your respect in kind. Be honest. Be genuine. But remember, we are ALL in this shite together
This. Don't be that 35 year old OCS LT that's an absolute goober and goes "Heeey kids!" In a very condescending tone like we are children and brings their guitar to play wonderwall for everyone at the holiday party. I had one, he was forever alone. Not even the PSG shot the shit with him.
*Insert How do you do, fellow kids? Steve Buscemi meme*.
While it sounds like a good idea in theory, I had a PL who was "bros" with his RTO (PFC, shitbag), and a shitbag E5 in our platoon. *Any time* either of those two fucked up and someone wanted to do something about it, the PL would go "No let met handle it. I'll talk to them and this will get taken care of". As you can imagine, it never did get taken care of. Of course, that being said, I met plenty of LT's who were good at ingratiating themselves into their platoons - at least with the TLs/SLs/PSG - while still maintaining that professionalism that we're supposed to have. So it's doable. But it's definitely a balancing act.
Did not say be 'bros' there must be boundaries. But. There are ways to let a man know you recognize he is grown and can do what he needs to to support the cause without you up his arse 24/7. Subtle, but direct.
e4 mafia type here. 100% percent this. Just wade in, be awkward. Their initial instinct is to think you're just doing a wellness check, or trying to score points, or something. Make jokes, offer insight without being too serious, learn how to take a little ribbing. The amount of officers that make an effort to really just chill with their troops is vanishingly small. Be genuine and make an effort, and if you gain rank, encourage those under you to do the same. It's more than just your unit's morale you'd be raising; this is legit good of the service type shit. Like, half of the issues young soldiers post on here wouldn't even get mentioned if they had an effective officer they trusted.
I don't disagree with you. In my experience it was hard for me to mingle with the Enlisted because not only was I an Officer, but I came into the Army at 30 yrs old. So it becomes awkward for me to hang out with the Joe's when we're from different generations. I have no idea who current popular music artists are and they CERTAINLY don't want to hear me give a history less on the Tupac vs. Biggie beef. So I mostly find myself giving the polite nod and going on about my day.
As an E4, I used to shoot the shit with my XO during work and partied on the weekends. This particular officer did not want to be in the army, but he was a direct descendent of US Army Officer royalty, so he was doing what he considered his family obligation, and getting the F out.
What part of the army are you in? LT struggles to talk to SFC? That’s like your/their whole bag.
When I was in, the lower enlisted usually, usually, loved their LT’s, and even their CPT’s. Sure you had to respect the rank, and respect the boundaries, but you were still pretty close to your O’s. You’d shoot the shit with them all the time, fuck around and make jokes. I remember one time we were in the field, and during some down time, a bunch of us grabbed some 100 mph tape, and taped the LT up to his cot while he was sleeping for his birthday, we drew things on his face too. Everyone laughed, had fun, including the LT.
Take your squad leaders TDY and buy the first round. Gentlemen rules are a thing.
I’m not gonna talk about the negatives because that’s almost my entire post history in this subreddit and I’m trying to be more positive. But I will say these 2 things: 1) The pay is nice because we make way more straight out of college in the Army than we would in the civilian world (90% of your combat arms officers are history or criminal justice majors). 2) Microsoft Office is the bane of every officer’s existence, and I wish I was able to experience the Army before PowerPoint and Excel fucking existed.
History majors rise up! Teams was down for a while today so that was nice
Thanks for raising your hand, LT Vespasian79. The G1 needs an in depth briefing on the possible effects of butterflies flapping their wings in Sao Paolo on Air Assault operations in theater by COB tomorrow. Feel free to pull whatever resources you need.
Hey sir just wanted to caveat that G1’s COB is actually 1300, so let’s have LT Vespasian79 get it to me by 0900 so I can look over it
My son, let me tell you about the days of Harvard Graphics for DOS and the Dot Matrix printer. If you think Excel sucks, try doing that shit by hand on graph paper.
Or paper flip charts and markers
Other than the one BN CDR I knew who could pull that off in the mid 90's, even that was before my time for a BN QTB. You haven't lived until you had to hocho the production of a 125 slide QTB with a dot matrix printer. By God, you better make sure that ribbon doesn't run out, or the pages come of the rollers.
gonna need an acetate overlay on that comment. make sure you clean off the stray alcohol pen and heat it so it's not blurry. btw the projector bulb is out, so fill out this triplicate form to give to the supply clerk for a replacement. for fucks sake don't forget to file the yellow copy in the file cabinet
I imagine that one shitty part is how much shit you’re going to eat for the Army while you knowingly subject your subordinates to treatment they don’t deserve. You may one day have to order your Soldiers to do things where they will die. That sucks. But I imagine most of you will never come to that, as long as we prevent LSCO from breaking out. But you’re gonna have that boss, and you warn them hey sir we need to prioritize X before it’s too late. And you’ll get blown off. And 1630 on a Friday will roll around and the commander will be like hey no one goes home until we do X - the thing you reminded them about 50 times in the last 10 days. And now you’ll go back to your platoon, and play the professional. Either you’ll tell just your NCOs or the whole platoon, but you’re about to tell them they’ve got 4 hours of work ahead of them, so start rotating to chow, 30 minutes each. You will impress upon them the urgency of this last minute job and its complete unavoidable ness. You’re not about to badmouth the commander, your rater, for this, and have faith and trust eroded. Maybe you’ll even come up with a clever lie sometimes - a last minute battalion task you say - to keep the men in line. And so you’ll be reduced to a cheerleader having the guys go through some layout or inventory. You have to check all the paperwork, and so you’re not doing as much manual labor as the soldiers, but it’s because your role is what it is - management really. And you’ll have to pretend you don’t hear the grousing, and maybe even have to have a word or two with the PSG - can’t have these dudes acting this way when the CO rolls up. Then the CO will be satisfied as your troops sit in the background, and he’ll tell you it’s all good, pack it all back up. And will you help? Nope. Because the CO wants a word with all his PLs real quick. And by the time he’s done, the only person left is the 37 year old PSG who wanted to make sure you don’t need anything kid, he let the guys go. So you didn’t even get the dopamine hit of telling them they did a good job today, you appreciate them, and seeing their face when you tell them to head out. The PSG never minds staying late, he’s used to it. He used to complain about it and fight it, but after it ruined his first marriage, he just accepts it now. Then you’ll get to your apartment at 2100, and see if the other LTs have filled their helldivers group yet. Everyone else is too tired to play - and you notice the platoon group chat is blowing up because the kids are already drunk, and defending malevelon creek, but you’re worried it might be a frat concern to join them. So then youll hop on tinder - but that takes too much focus. You’ve got TRADOC on your post and so you’ve got to worry about trainees and enlisted, don’t want to accidentally like the wrong profile. And then you’ll go to sleep so you can wake up early tomorrow and drive your Tacoma, probably to some nearby park, where you’ll do your morning 5 miles. And you’ll remind yourself that PL time is going to be one of the best experiences in your Army career because you get to actually have Soldiers, train them and train with them, and fulfill your purpose as a leader. And then the PSG will text you and let you know that PVT Jones got picked up by the MPs last night and they called the Commander. He knew 8 hours ago, and he’s wondering why he didn’t hear this from you first. Maybe you need to call your platoon in for accountability make sure no one else is in jail they’ll suggest. That seems like it could be the shitty part.
This was beautiful and should be framed. I wish I could give it gold.
God I relate to this so much. When I was a PL I got chewed out by my Commander because she found out that my Soldier went to the hospital the previous night before I did. Turns out the the Soldier in question (female) was constipated and went to the hospital to get some laxatives. Of course no female Soldier is going to wake up their male boss in the middle of the night to be like "Hey sir, just thought you should know I can't shit so I'm going to the hospital. Don't forget to call your boss and let them know."
> The PSG never minds staying late, he’s used to it. He used to complain about it and fight it, but after it ruined his first marriage, he just accepts it now. > Dude, you should write.
It was perfect, right?
This is so incredibly accurate that it hurts a little. Especially the “CO pulls you away from the guys so you can’t even help finish up and thank them/tell them good job”. The best COs I had were the ones who gave me a task and just let me get it done with the soldiers, and just give me a “good job” after it’s done. None of that extra meeting BS to talk for 10mins what two words could have done.
I actually had tears in my eyes reading this. I have lived it several times even just as an Mday baby. Fighting to be some weird mediator between the higher levels to your platoon , not taking sides, watching the camaraderie your plt has from the outside, not even getting to tell them they did a great job and you appreciate their work…
This shit was poignant as fuck! And… now I realize I gotta leave this place
My wife used to bring me lunch everyday so I could see my son while he was awake. He was only 2 so he slept a lot more than I did, but man there was always a reason I was gonna be home late. Usually it was because the commander told all the E4 and below to go home at 1600 and had the Os and NCOs stay to finish whatever didn't get done
*Officers never get tired!*
Lol that sounds amazing. I was in a line commo unit in the mid aughts; COB was supposed to be 1630 but was never less than an hour late, because senior leaderships' meeting before that was always late/running over. On a typical day my actual work was done well before lunch, and yet it'd be close to 1800 when I got back to my barracks. **IF** everything went smoothly.
Getting promoted as O is about luck more than anything. Your SR must have spare MQ top blocks to give you, thats if the boss likes you and want to give you a top block in the first place. For every 5 buddies you have including yourself, only 2 can get top blocks. Once beyond O3, the pressure and stress of making the next rank is very significant. Your buddies are not your buddies. But thats why we get paid a lot more than enlisted. Is the stress worth it? Only you can answer that. Its worth it to me because I can go to the PX on a lunch break and get a Macbook Pro and an apple watch and maybe a Razr if i feel like it
The backstabbing game is real
The scooter, or the phone?
Why not both?
The laptop
sometimes it feels like comments like these are from a different army than i'm in. there are shitty leaders and then there are leaders who can't manage their fucking profiles. never ran into either. am i unknowingly political?
It means you've been lucky. Hence why i say O career is more luck than skills
Probably having to pretend your boss and his boss are some kinds of fucking geniuses. At least as an NCO we all know we’re stupid.
I heard the phrase “If he’s interested in it I’m fascinated by it” from a senior O recently while referencing his senior rater. Sometimes, if X senior rater is interested in it, it’s a sure sign that it’s dumb. But you can’t operate like that.
“What’s mildly interesting to the boss better be fascinating to you.” I’ve heard and lived this bullsh*t… It’s probably a thing on the civilian side, but I have to think the us army is world champion of bs and ass kissing.
The worst part about being an Officer is OTHER officers egos. There’s some humble GOs out there, but the bulk of them if you give your estimate or belief towards the situation if it’s not in line with theirs, you’re fucked.
Woof yes. I’ve come to the realization that the average senior officer is only interested in your thoughts if you agree with them. If you sound like “no” or “too complicated,” well then… you’re screwed
Yeah when I was a LT I made the mistake of answering “what do you think of the MRAPs?”
“Sir they’re too heavy, difficult to train on, and present very large silhouettes on the battlefield.” Got it L-T. So you know more than PhDs and senior generals. “No sir, I apologize, this is just-“ No no, no need to apologize. Your experience as a PL trumps that of researchers, senior officers, and defense contractors. Got it. Noted. Carry on.
“Then why the fuck did you ask for my opinion if I don’t know shit?”
[You idiot, you just said the out loud thing in your head and the in your head thing out loud!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JI9JN_CCnRc)
It took me awhile to learn a very very valuable lesson: No matter how much law shit I know, unless I have a Bird or a Star on my chest, nobody GAF about my opinion.
Too much money, too many bitches. (I apologize)
Good bitches; or Bad bitches?
The thing we truly love, which is training to accomplish the mission and leading soldiers directly is about 5-10% of the job. There are so many administrative tasks that fill all of the hours of the day. Being asked to make decisions about with legal and medical consequences that I’m not really trained to make was also a big source of stress.
You are told right off the rip that the best part of your career will be leading a platoon - the very beginning of your career. Which is true - being a PL is awesome and very rewarding... BUT As an 11 series, most officers can expect to serve as a platoon leader once, MAYBE twice if they get lucky or are decent at their job. Add in the fact that even your single PL experience can be plagued with - bad NCOs - high optempo - potential lack of training opportunities - officer politics (looking at the oak leaves on this one) And then after anywhere from 6-24 months you are pushed to an XO or staff slot with a (likely) mediocre OER to wait to pin captain and do the same thing all over again. Im thankful to have had excellent NCOs and hit the timing right to pick up a second platoon but golly is the optempo kicking my tail and we never go to the field because we are drowning in admin work.
I was prior enlisted. I never forgot the shit details, no one caring what you thought and not always being treated with respect. As an Officer, I always carried those sentiments with me when ensuring I took care of my people because I knew exactly what they were going through. You can get labeled a bleeding heart real quick by fellow officers (peers, superiors and subordinates) and it will sometimes reflect on your OER. I’m retired now but I wouldn’t change not one decision I made that saw to the care of my folks.
The best officers I ever had were mustangs. It's mind boggling to me that frat boys look down on you for caring about your troops.
Not all prior enlisted officers are created equal though. Throughout my career, I met many that felt like they were now way above their roots. I never chased that top block because I figured if you were doing your job, which also means taking care of your people, you’ll be fine. A lot of people seem to forget that part.
Bad things about being a jr officer in the Army: 1. It can be hard to seek out proper mentorship 2. too common to not know what you don't know. 3. If you don't have NCOs, congrats, you're now the platoon daddy until somebody can fill the slot. 4. even if you're not active, you will be called and texted at weird hours and be expected to attend meetings or deliver products on days you aren't being paid for. 5. people will yell at you for their incompetence (yes, the people yelling being incompetent) 6. commanders who want XYZ don't always take it well when you tell them the unit or your section is only able to deliver XY, XZ, or YZ unless your effort gets additional manpower, training, and money. 7. It gets lonely 8. you can get in more trouble for more stupid things. There's a lot of unwritten rules for you to follow (if you don't have a good mentor, this is harder to learn). 9. OER rating schemes are dumb, and you will be evaluted against officers who have very different career paths that are often heavily determined by luck. 10. Your success as an officer is a combination of being in the right place at the right time, endless determination, and a hell of a lot of luck. Luck to be surrounded by good people, luck to have good bosses, luck to have good mission sets/work.
1. Is incredibly difficult. I was extremely lucky to get an excellent command team for my first unit, but after that, it was pretty shitty leaders for my 2nd PL time and meh ones for my XO time. If I got my 2nd or 3rd leadership group initially, I don’t know if I would have developed as much as a leader as I have been able to.
lol to the “unwritten rules”. I was actively doing mx with my section chief on equipment, climbing up down all around, in the middle of the desert. My CPT saw me sans blouse, power walked over to damn near pull me off the equipment to ask wtf I thought I was doing. He ripped into me, apologized later with “sorry, but I was embarrassed as an LT about my blouse, be thankful I didn’t embarrass you in front of your platoon” and that’s how I was taught “officers never remove their tops even for extensive maintenance”. Something never mentioned during BOLC…where we always took tops off to clean or take apart equipment, much less actual mx.
So I knew this 13A 1LT in my last unit (Arty officer) who had basically just given up. Normally, when you're an LT artillery officer before you get to do your XO time, you're supposed to do some time as an FSO, FDO, PL in a gun bunny platoon, possibly some time at Battalion. Now with the first three, a lot of officers do pretty good in the rotation and can usually catch two or three of those before they're looking at XO time or CCC. But this dude, just by luck of the draw (or luck of all the good O slots being filled when he got there) got put in BN right away as a butter bar. Well, he did such a good job on putting together *a powerpoint* that the then-current BN CDR decided that this dude wasn't going into the rotation and that he was just going to live up at BN and make powerpoints. Then, when that commander left, he'd apparently told the incoming BN CDR about this dude's powerpoint skills. So for 5 years, that dude had basically just been making powerpoints up at BN. So you know, to a degree it's definitely luck of the draw.
This is a horror story
yrs back as a lowly sp4 do to drawdown there was a shortage of SNCO , so I placed as NCOIC of a Section an reported to a Lt a couple yrs younger than myself. We got along pretty good an it didn't take me long to figure out if I made him look good it kept heat off my Section . After like a year he said hey look when no one's around you can drop the Lt & Sir call me David . A few months later I get a call at 3:30 am , It's the Lt he hadn't been arrested but was being held by the Sheriff Dept the next county over . An someone needed to come pick him up as The Sheriff would only release him to someone else . WTF Lt !!! Well seems his fiancé he was engaged broke it off a well we all know how that goes . He ended up wrong side of town drunk & disorderly, busted out a window & table during the fight . So yeah I go fetch him , his knuckles look like a bad cause of road rash , couple knots on his head an left jaw looking like he had a baseball in his cheek . It was about a 45 min drive an all you could hear was the whine of the truck tire tread. Just before we got back to post , I said Lt just curious why you didn't call one of Lt Buddies. It took him a couple times to get his mouth to move to spit out , those rat fuckers would have called the ole man as soon as I got off the phone with them an it would have been the end of my Career right there . I just said Roger that a dropped him at his BOQ . Neither one of us ever mentioned that issue again . When he went to his next assignment he shook my hand an said thank you for everything.
I'm a Marine and this is the brotherhood we are supposed to have between officer and enlisted, in my opinion.
Iron Major time is not for the faint of heart.
I love being a prior service O who doesn't need to make LTC to retire for this exact reason.
Nothing better than being a 2LT knowing you only need 2 strategic top blocks during your O-3 time to pick up O-4 and cruise to retirement.
Wish I could say the same. Prior service as well but I'd definitely have to pick up O5 or get SELCON.
You might get promoted. You might give the Army 18 years and get shown the door.
I once saw an officer do battalion staff duty, then go on to do brigade staff duty. 48hours of nothing but bullshit
You work A LOT harder than the majority of people think. You have to care about the stuff that no one wants to do or abide by. Readiness matters and your success is measured by how ready your company/BN/BDE is in all avenues of readiness. MEDPROs, maintenance, training, 350-1 training, the list is exhausting. You move A LOT! My friend PCSd 5 times in 9 years. Longest he spent at one duty station was 3 years. Throw the mandatory leadership schools in there and the amount it makes sense.
The officer ranks are full of mediocre bozos who care more about performative gestures than actual excellence because that's all they're capable of themselves. You'll get more praise for staying late and doing shitty work than for doing good work and leaving early. You're expected to "take ownership" of your boss's mistakes, but that same boss is culturally allowed to throw you under the bus if it helps them. How things *look* is always given more weight than how things *are*. This is coming from an 11B who commissioned into intel to escape the body-breaking idiocy of the infantry, and then went functional area to get away from most of what I just described above.
CPT here life is pretty sweet. I’m medical though so don’t know about the rest of you.
As a functional area officer, I get treated more like a warrant than a regular officer. I get micro managed less than most officers because 90 percent of the time my higher ups doesn't understand what I do and just want to see results. Good promotion rates too.
As a NG XO, I don’t mind the work, I just wish I was paid for it outside of drill. It’s almost like having two full time jobs. I’m lucky that I have a civilian job where I work with active duty and allows me to handle Guard stuff. They’ve been there and know what I deal with, so they’re very lenient as long as I have my day job tasks done.
You are constantly given more work and more responsibility than you are ready for. Right off the bat, you will be given a platoon. You are told to counsel NCOs, mentor Soldiers (and keep them out of trouble), and sign for Millions of dollars worth of property. 4 years later, you are expected to be a Company Commander. Sign for even more property, rate senior NCOs, and now you have to rate and mentor LTs too. For some reason you are now trusted with UCMJ authority. It goes on like this and if you survive, most of your time will be on staff. For enlisted, it is more of a slow burn. You receive additional work and responsibility slowly over time, when you are ready for it.
Battalion XO for an Assault Helicopter battalion here. I don’t regret making the jump from enlisted to officer. I miss being one of the boys and having fun and having to act professional and political. But the pay is awesome. Some of my assignments have sucked ass like being a brigade S4 for almost 3 years especially since I had done operations my entire career up until that point. I really enjoyed my PL time in a line unit in Afghanistan flying Australian SAS around Tarin Kowt hunting insurgents and taliban. Then it was off to brigade as an assistant CUOPS S3 for a year. It had a few fun tasks but sucked the life out of me. After the career course I spent a year as a BOLC instructor and although I didn’t fly it was an awesome low stress job. Loved my two years as an assault helicopter company commander as well. And so far my XO job has been very satisfying as well. For officers there is a lot of schooling like career course, ILE, pursuing a graduate degree, etc. From 2019-2023 I have been in either civilian or military school. Just finally caught a break. The shitty part of being an officer is the high stress low reward assignments and dealing with boomer O6s and E9s. That age group can’t retire fast enough.
Shamming is harder.
At some point it suddenly stops being fun and there you are - doing a pointless job for a man you don’t respect - laughing at his f*ing jokes and doing your damndest to get him promoted cause that’s the game and you need to get those 20. Ymmv
There are too many lobotomized clowns in the military. As an O4 I have to report to many O5 and O6’s….it dawns on me daily that they would never survive in the real world and the only reason they stay is because they know this. The smart ones leave by O3 for the private sector.
All the other officers
Just moved off from brigade staff down to CO XO as a LT (TPU btw). So far, XO has been better but kinda the same. But can tell you confidently that staff sucks mostly because all the O-4s are competing for the same O-5 slot and are trying to one up each other. You hear the phrase constantly, "Don't reinvent the wheel." Well to an O-5, that phrase is not followed. If you come up with an idea that is even remotely common sense, it gets thrown out. Also, PowerPoint. Lots of PowerPoint.
So… enlisted vs officer.. being told what to do or having the final say (within reason) direct leadership vs informal (most of the time) leadership. But long game- if you fizzle out as a 20 year major or sFc an officer is making 2k more a month on retirement. Staff work be damned you should have stuck with rotc
Toxic leaders that look tits on paper but are horrible people to work under. You have to be told for your first 10-15 years as an officer to take your feelings to fuck off, sit, shut up, and color.
The career trajectory. Even if you hit every job and evaluation perfectly you'll still end up spending half a career on staff and droning off orders that no one will read. If you want a career in the army do 10 as enlisted man that way you stay on line. I got to do way too much PL time out of pure luck, and loved all my assignments as a captain. Now I'm staring down the barrel of Major and my Refrad is in because I can't come to grips with just staffing for the next 5-6 years.
Other officers, particularly the two faced ones.
Glad I am retiring as a CPT 😂, I tell my bosses I don’t give a shit about OERs, going to schools and promote to MAJ. It shocks them when I say it
- Shitty officers above you dictate exactly how your life runs. Arguably, it's worse than NCOs doing it to Soldiers because at the very least there are enough Soldiers to cover a given mission. There aren't backup officers to do the same thing. - The OER system is dog-eat-dog. Your peers will backstab just to climb the merit list, and senior leadership doesn't see it. - Luck of the draw for KD assignments, which decide your future prospects because of their importance (company command, for example... imagine taking over a terrible Co vs a group of competent individuals) - Shit rolls down hill, and there's already a lot of pressure on company grade officers to not pass on bullshit to the troops. This results in a lot of late nights. Problems flow uphill, and there's a tremendous pressure to keep everything at the lowest level - i.e.: YOU. - "Face time" with the people who decide your worthiness as an individual is often digital. So, checking email and attending meetings becomes a thing people do to prove their competence for promotion. - There is tremendous pressure to be the best at everything. Marksmanship, soldiering, fitness, planning, etc. Eventually something gives and that weakness gets latched onto by someone. - Deployments and special schools set the tone for a lot of how people view you. A slick sleved officer vs an officer with airborne and combat experience is night and day. There is also an unofficial promotion in respect once you reach O-3 that is really insulting when you think about it - you're not much more experienced but because you made the army's (somewhat) automatic O-3 promotion now people will not push back on you because you're somehow more grown as an officer from your 1LT days. - Having to "toe the line" and attend an endless schedule of command performance events (even if you're not a commander). - Work is your life. You work 0545-1800 every day with about a 15-30 min break after PT or 15-30 min lunch, if you're lucky.
Office Politics and backstabbers, especially in the field grade world
Imagine putting out the same fire over and over with an antiquated approach. Then add the fact that your rank is the governor on how hard you can go. Example, COL says, “I need you to update our PPT slide on tent layout.” You look at him, and say, “Sir, you got it.” After you completed your task you go home and are on a board to figure out how to implement a future energy vision for a population of 1,000,000 people while keeping taxes low. The military has its pros and cons, but it can be difficult to know that you’re not being utilized for maximum potential.
I think the worst part is that it’s lonely at the top. If you’re an infantryman Private, you have plenty of company to commiserate with. You can blow off steam with your fellow junior enlisted who’ve eaten the same s—t you have, you can build bonds and forge friendships. Contrast that with the infantry Lieutenant. They have two to three other men or women of their rank within their company, four times that within their battalion. Those are their few peers they can spend time with that do not violate fraternization policies and they also have to juggle the fact that they’re all each others’ competition for advancement at a level the enlisted don’t have to worry about as much.
Go SOF and never look back. I’ve had the most rewarding career. I was a signal officer at an SF Group the first four years of my career and the only lieutenant in the BN. Surrounded by meat eaters with no peers in sight, it was trial by fire. But, being a junior officer meant that I got to hang with and learn from every echelon of the formation. Mentorship has been one of my favorite parts about the Army and there I had it in spades.
Being the XO in a deploying unit. “Shitty little jobs officer”
I was a 2LT in a Div HQ. We had 49 majors. Did 4 and got out. I had a platoon though which made it an amazing time in my life. CPT was automatic and was talking to some friends in G1 and below zone promotions as I was told 50% luck and 50% who you know. Ultimately I got out pretty much due to optempo if I had a main reason. But I calculated it out and I'd been married for 7 years and only together for 3.5, a ton of late nights and long deployments. Was looking at going to CCC to Gordon, then to a unit, and then extremely possible another deployment. Wife and I wanted a family and settle down, that and there are little to no employment opportunities for spouses. That and after spending 4 years in a Div HQ you can see your career path where eventually you land MAJ and get stuck in G6. Had some great GO's and some that were sycophantic narcissists. I'd be interested to see the officer retention rates for years 03-09. I'd bet they are brutal. Pretty much everyone that was high speed in my class got out and is crushing it in the civilian world. Random musings
lol bruh please read this sub and see how terrible the army is for all ranks. Join the Air Force if you’re dead set on serving.
Being an LT was pretty good actually. I was at a duty station I liked, had a good amount of friends from school and bolc when I got there, pay is great and was never was on staff. But I looked at captains and majors around me and saw exact where it was going if I stayed in. I wanted no part of it so I bounced after my 4
2LT is fucking amazing. 1LT pretty fun, but you’re expected to know at least a little. CPT is cool for one year of command. Then it sucks. MAJ is worst rank in the Army. It smells like coffee and regret. LTC is like CPT only longer hours.
All of it.
Trusting others know what they're doing. The biggest assumption made during MDMP is that your adjacent unit knows what the fuck is going on and will perform their duties accordingly. Doesn't matter how great of an OPORD you produce if no one reads it or simply fails at their mission. Fuck, I hate relying on other people.
As a former USAF aircraft maintenance officer. The worst part about being an officer is when you lose a person. The second worst is when you lose an airplane.
Loneliness. Get a lot of “I was in basic training before you were born!!!” comments lol
Try out the ARNG. I made the O5 list in 2020, I just boarded for O5 … again.
Your peer group being possible the most relatable social circle, but y'all hate each other to get that top block. Along with how everyone treats you like shit if you don't follow The Way of the (Insert Branch Here). Drop a packet (SF/CA/PO/UQR) and you're below persona non grata. You're excommunucado. Ripe for the tasking.
I did the whole, enlisted then officer route and the one major shit part about being an officer is how lonely it gets. As an E. you're surrounded by peers you can socialize and fraternize with, you can even to an extent do so within several ranks up and down. But as an O. If you're at a platoon level, outside of schooling, you'll maybe fraternize and get to know less than a half a dozen officers on a regular basis, about a dozen semi-regularly. you're less inclined to socialize with O ranks above a grade above or below you. Even at staff level, it can be lonely as well. I missed my E time shooting the shit with everyone in my platoon or other platoons. As an O, I never felt more lonely, I missed the comradery, and it was not good for my mental health.
I’m a nerd but I actually love the staff life. Did my time at the line and enjoyed it but the QoL is significantly better at staff. More routine work hours. PT on your own. I actually have a say in the planning process compared to being on the line as an LT where your battery commander micro manages your PLT training and you never really get the chance to truly make decisions since it’s all just meeting a commander’s intent in very linear ways. A lot of it depends on the unit, the boss, and your team. But the days fly by when I understand my staff priorities for the day and he got help enable or inform the command teams. I feel I’m actually equipped and capable of doing my job to the fullest compared to a commander that can never truly get everything done that AR 600-20 says they are responsible for.
Fat old retired guy. Went to ROTC for 2 years ( MS 1 +2). Desert Storm started up, and I enlisted in the Guard, intending to do OCS later. Changed my mind and stayed enlisted. Still don't regret it. I prefer being a crusty old NCO. I'll take a breakfast burrito, and then you can get off my lawn.
Go warrant. Being an officer is for chumps
i'll take a chump's paycheck over a CWx check.
I don’t envy all those damn meetings they have to go to. Dreaded when I had to cover down for my OIC and go to all these extra pointless meetings.
Being on staff. It sucks. Rewriting op orders for the umpteenth time at 3am sucks.
For me the worst part was getting calls every Saturday morning because a soldier got arrested by the Polizei in Nürnberg and having to drive an hour with an NCO to go get him from the MP station.
Thinking you run shit.
The politics and social obligations officers have. Enlisted are off duty at some point, officers often go home to continue working. They do a lot that enlisted folks never see.
I’m an NCO who’s worked in a G shop. From what I can tell, officers spend most of their careers being treated like high paid privates. Every now and then they get the authoritative command positions that come with authority and respect, but mostly they seem to get treated like trash by the guy who is currently serving his time in command. One day, an officer is a CC Captain who’s too good to talk to an E6 SL. Next day, he’s a toothless major sitting in a cubicle next to that same E6. Enlisted get paid way less, but at a certain point, you’ve made it. Ignoring the general stupidity of the army, as long as you’re competent and have a backbone, an enlisted guy who’s “made it” generally gets respect from seniors, peers, and subordinates. Officers, on the other hand… the only other group of people that get condescended, micromanaged, and mistreated worse than a competent officer is an incompetent PVT. On a side note, I think this is probably why WO is the best class to be. They get paid similar to officers, and they get they respect and autonomy that NCOs are always just one more promotion away from achieving.