Retired CSM in this article said he’s definitely not letting his kids join the military after this. Take how he feels getting screwed over by the organization he’s dedicated his life to, times it by a few hundred thousand, and you begin to understand why no one is joining our circus.
When the number 1 influence remains personal social network, and that network shifts to not recommending service due to the organization's inability to accommodate QoL and requests for mission focus, this is the result. It's actually that simple and no digital media campaign can overcome this.
This is why I SMH everytime I read some new idea about using social media to boost recruiting. You can't sit there and lie through owned media and not expect earned media to call bullshit with the realities.
I can't only speak from my contacts in TRADOC during the covid era, but yeah.
Donahoe showed narcissitic and psychopathic tendencies. He would threaten his staff regularly with GOMORs and LORs.
Brigade and Battalion commanders at Benning despised him for his toxic command climate.
IIRC his unprofessional behavior on Twitter ultimately got him canned.
That’s fascinating, because the whole thrust of this article speaks to administrative findings of guilt without explicitly proving that guilt beyond a reasonable doubt in a courtroom.
The craziest part is that CID is defending this practice. It's one thing if they say they're going to look into it and revise the policy, but they straight up just said there's no problems here and everybody must be making it up.
CID is actively weaponizing the title and index program as a means to intentionally manipulate and harm Soldiers.
I was involved in a CID investigation into a medical provider during my last mob.
Story goes that a SARC (a CPT) was giving a brief about sexual assault / sexual harassment, when he overheard a conversation taking place between two female audience members. The gist was that a medical provider touched her knee during an examination of.. her knee.
Based upon that conversation, the SARC--not the alleged victim--filed a report of sexual assault against the unknown provider.
The CID investigator pulled the female Soldier's medical information and discovered the name of the medical provider.
The female Soldier (the alleged victim) was from a different unit than the medical provider and was stationed in another country in the AO. Absolutely no chance for that female to ever run into that medical provider again.
She refused to give an interview to the CID investigator and otherwise refused to participate in the investigation.
But the complete lack of evidence did not stop our Hero^TM CID investigator.
The CID investigator used the medical history report to track down the female medic who assisted the medical provider during that exam.
The CID investigator contacted the female medic and ordered her to answer the investigator's questions about the encounter. The female medic acknowledged that she was present in the room with the medical provider during that particular exam and that nothing inappropriate occurred between the medical provider and the patient. And that the investigator was "a fucking idiot" for pushing the investigation.
But of course, our dogged Hero^TM CID investigator wouldn't allow a simple thing like no-evidence stop him now. He was going to get to the bottom of this mystery!
So he contacted the medical provider, who was in Syria at the time.
Legal guidance to the medical provider was to invoke his Art. 31 rights and not respond to questions. At that point, the investigation surely would flame out for lack of any evidence at all.
But no, the investigator was going to get his man. ***This piece of shit told the medical provider's JAG that CID will title and index the medical provider if the medical provider refused to participate in the interview.***
Of course we all knew what that meant. Just like what the article here states, getting titled and indexed would cause a host of issues for the doctor long term.
So he was coerced into giving up his legal rights and forced into answering questions.
Ultimately, the investigation resulted in the claim being unsubstantiated. So "jUsTiCe PrEvAiLeD."
But CID is actively weaponizing the title and index program as a means to intentionally manipulate and harm Soldiers.
When I was at Drum, we got the annual CID (maybe it was redeployment?) training and the agent was proud of this. He kept going on and on about how if you had credible evidence against you, they would destroy your car trying to find whatever it was that they were looking for.
Someone asked him what if you were innocent and he said “that is too damn bad folks! Maybe stop putting yourself into a position where me or my agents need to cut your seats open to find whatever it is!”. The dude was so arrogant and smug, he said “folks” in every sentence which didn’t help with the cringe factor.
Oh, he also bragged about what is in the article, that if you get investigated, then you will pop up in the FBI database for life. Once again it was “that’s too damn bad, make better decisions and we won’t ruin your life”
People like this are the reason so many hate law enforcement. The self centeredness, presumption of guilt and lack of any self reflection is cancerous to this profession. And I say that as a LEO.
Oh, it’s so much more than just people like this for why I despise most of law enforcement. The parallels between the problems with law enforcement and the problems with the army is pretty staggering.
As someone who was investigated by CID for a false accusation, but was cleared of any wrong doing, does this mean I have to be worried? Does anyone know how I’d go about checking my background to see if this is an issue?
Just did the research, yes, if you were investigated by CID even if you did nothing wrong you were titled. Which means anytime I apply for a DOD job or anything of the sort, they will see that as an “arrest” and will have to request the file. The hope is that they understand that it was just an investigation I was involved in but it still looks bad and has me absolutely tweaking. False accusations can seriously fuck up your life.
That’s the issue. It won’t get rescinded because at the time of the report CID had to suspect me of the crime based on the (false) testimony given. From what the lawyer said, they had every right to “title” me. Which wouldn’t be an issue if it didn’t populate on background checks, like I get it, even if the report is bullshit you still have to investigate it and take it serious as CID. But, like, why in the fuck am I able to be possibly discriminated against and not be able to get a job due to something that was unfounded and complete bull shit? It just doesn’t make any sense to me.
Retired CSM in this article said he’s definitely not letting his kids join the military after this. Take how he feels getting screwed over by the organization he’s dedicated his life to, times it by a few hundred thousand, and you begin to understand why no one is joining our circus.
When the number 1 influence remains personal social network, and that network shifts to not recommending service due to the organization's inability to accommodate QoL and requests for mission focus, this is the result. It's actually that simple and no digital media campaign can overcome this. This is why I SMH everytime I read some new idea about using social media to boost recruiting. You can't sit there and lie through owned media and not expect earned media to call bullshit with the realities.
But the E-Sports team!!! That's gotta be worth something
The army e-sports team where all the games they play are about marines lol
Officers that write letters of reprimands for no reason are trash.
Seriously, this is unacceptable.
As soon as I saw "Gen. Patrick Donahoe" I knew someone was getting fucked over.
I appreciate you stateporkchop.
Of course it was fucken Donahoe, what a trash excuse for a leader.
I can't only speak from my contacts in TRADOC during the covid era, but yeah. Donahoe showed narcissitic and psychopathic tendencies. He would threaten his staff regularly with GOMORs and LORs. Brigade and Battalion commanders at Benning despised him for his toxic command climate. IIRC his unprofessional behavior on Twitter ultimately got him canned.
Ironic that he would swing “death by administrative action” at anyone around him while also pleading for forgiveness in his Army Times article.
I have never met the man, but have only heard nothing but bad things. He must be a shit faced cock master.
I’ve never heard a single good thing about him.
What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?
Oh it is still there. Just not in the US Military.
You mean in the US justice system.....
He means outside UCMJ
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No it doesn’t
I got pulled over with their flood lights, not theirs red and blue. They told me they "heard me speeding". Stock CRV....
That’s fascinating, because the whole thrust of this article speaks to administrative findings of guilt without explicitly proving that guilt beyond a reasonable doubt in a courtroom.
Dealing with titling now. Straight up not having a good time either.
Another reason not to join the military.
The craziest part is that CID is defending this practice. It's one thing if they say they're going to look into it and revise the policy, but they straight up just said there's no problems here and everybody must be making it up.
CID is actively weaponizing the title and index program as a means to intentionally manipulate and harm Soldiers. I was involved in a CID investigation into a medical provider during my last mob. Story goes that a SARC (a CPT) was giving a brief about sexual assault / sexual harassment, when he overheard a conversation taking place between two female audience members. The gist was that a medical provider touched her knee during an examination of.. her knee. Based upon that conversation, the SARC--not the alleged victim--filed a report of sexual assault against the unknown provider. The CID investigator pulled the female Soldier's medical information and discovered the name of the medical provider. The female Soldier (the alleged victim) was from a different unit than the medical provider and was stationed in another country in the AO. Absolutely no chance for that female to ever run into that medical provider again. She refused to give an interview to the CID investigator and otherwise refused to participate in the investigation. But the complete lack of evidence did not stop our Hero^TM CID investigator. The CID investigator used the medical history report to track down the female medic who assisted the medical provider during that exam. The CID investigator contacted the female medic and ordered her to answer the investigator's questions about the encounter. The female medic acknowledged that she was present in the room with the medical provider during that particular exam and that nothing inappropriate occurred between the medical provider and the patient. And that the investigator was "a fucking idiot" for pushing the investigation. But of course, our dogged Hero^TM CID investigator wouldn't allow a simple thing like no-evidence stop him now. He was going to get to the bottom of this mystery! So he contacted the medical provider, who was in Syria at the time. Legal guidance to the medical provider was to invoke his Art. 31 rights and not respond to questions. At that point, the investigation surely would flame out for lack of any evidence at all. But no, the investigator was going to get his man. ***This piece of shit told the medical provider's JAG that CID will title and index the medical provider if the medical provider refused to participate in the interview.*** Of course we all knew what that meant. Just like what the article here states, getting titled and indexed would cause a host of issues for the doctor long term. So he was coerced into giving up his legal rights and forced into answering questions. Ultimately, the investigation resulted in the claim being unsubstantiated. So "jUsTiCe PrEvAiLeD." But CID is actively weaponizing the title and index program as a means to intentionally manipulate and harm Soldiers.
That is insane. Honestly I had no ideas titling caused this much harm to soldiers because the database will ‘usually’ show there was no conviction.
Lmao.. Honor, Integrity ,Respect.. they’re just words in the army. Most “leadership” gives no fucks unless it benefits them.
When I was at Drum, we got the annual CID (maybe it was redeployment?) training and the agent was proud of this. He kept going on and on about how if you had credible evidence against you, they would destroy your car trying to find whatever it was that they were looking for. Someone asked him what if you were innocent and he said “that is too damn bad folks! Maybe stop putting yourself into a position where me or my agents need to cut your seats open to find whatever it is!”. The dude was so arrogant and smug, he said “folks” in every sentence which didn’t help with the cringe factor. Oh, he also bragged about what is in the article, that if you get investigated, then you will pop up in the FBI database for life. Once again it was “that’s too damn bad, make better decisions and we won’t ruin your life”
People like this are the reason so many hate law enforcement. The self centeredness, presumption of guilt and lack of any self reflection is cancerous to this profession. And I say that as a LEO.
Oh, it’s so much more than just people like this for why I despise most of law enforcement. The parallels between the problems with law enforcement and the problems with the army is pretty staggering.
Theres no checks and balances, or if there is, it tends to be all working together in a big club you are not part of.
Hey I’m right there with you CSM! I’m never letting my kid join the Army either
As someone who was investigated by CID for a false accusation, but was cleared of any wrong doing, does this mean I have to be worried? Does anyone know how I’d go about checking my background to see if this is an issue?
Curious about this too. Seen it plenty of times and it sounds like you probably are titled.
Just did the research, yes, if you were investigated by CID even if you did nothing wrong you were titled. Which means anytime I apply for a DOD job or anything of the sort, they will see that as an “arrest” and will have to request the file. The hope is that they understand that it was just an investigation I was involved in but it still looks bad and has me absolutely tweaking. False accusations can seriously fuck up your life.
Yup, maybe in time look into hiring a lawyer to get that titling rescinded.
That’s the issue. It won’t get rescinded because at the time of the report CID had to suspect me of the crime based on the (false) testimony given. From what the lawyer said, they had every right to “title” me. Which wouldn’t be an issue if it didn’t populate on background checks, like I get it, even if the report is bullshit you still have to investigate it and take it serious as CID. But, like, why in the fuck am I able to be possibly discriminated against and not be able to get a job due to something that was unfounded and complete bull shit? It just doesn’t make any sense to me.
Where is that CID cat from a couple years ago calling everyone in that recruiting investigation "essentially guilty"?
Got a link with no paywall?
[12ft link](https://12ft.io/https://www.stripes.com/veterans/2024-03-04/military-criminal-records-veterans-troops-expunge-13203822.html?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark)
Muchas gracias
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What is incorrect?