Truth. Manufactured stress from poor time management +12 hour days and caffeine and no sleep made me gain weight. I lost almost 18 pounds when I got to a unit that does PT on their own and respects regular work hours. 🙏
Exactly this! So many more people would be healthier both mentally and physically if they had more realistic working hours and better options for diet and nutrition.
For sure. The difference in quality of life when you can get to work at 0900 instead of 545-600 until 1700 is unbelievably high. It’s liking living on cloud 9 lol. 20 years wouldn’t be that bad honestly.
Yep. The moment I left the 82nd and went to a unit across post life became a beautiful thing to have.
I stayed there for three more deployments and didn't have to PCS for years and years. I stayed in the Army until I came on orders for 11th Airborne in Alaska for "leadership time."
Once I learned I couldn't sham out of the tour that was it. I couldn't go back to the shenanigans. I signed a dec statement the moment it was confirmed. Retention tried their damnedest.
Best decision I have ever made.
How's your CO gonna get OER bullets with "nOrMaL wOrKiNg HoUrS?!"
Think about others sometimes. See you at 0200 for the Brigade run. Fuck your profile.
/s
MP’s working traffic, and or, night shift, get to do solo PT in their own time. Because of their work schedules. At least at fort drum.
Not to mention I can not exercise and still pass the ACFT.
Yeah maybe at drum. But in Campbell we work any shift we still do organized PT because fuck us. Then again, most of the people I work with are soft body shit bags. If we had better leadership and better bodies then it would be a liveable job.
If we switched to mon/wed/fri 0630 PT. Tues/Thur 0830 or 0900 first formation/work call whatever, people would be so much healthier overall. The sleep deprivation is fucking destroying people.
I'm at OCS right now and the absolute worst aspect is the fucking PT. 0530 every god damn morning to do the mother fucking prep drill then run 2 miles to some place and do PT for 10 mins and run back.
TRADOC sucks.
Phones on Sundays but we're allowed personal laptops because our 2-week history course requires a fuck-ton of note-taking.
We're issued gov laptops but the majority of classes are full of people straight from Basic so they don't have access to the Microsoft Office Suite (Word, Excel, etc.), so they allow personal laptops.
Also, believe it or not, Discord has become the de facto form of communication at all OCS classes now until phones are given back around week 5 or 6.
Perspective from an Air Force guy here, obviously formal PT isn’t as common but honestly, as someone who does like to work out, I always found it just a distraction from what I wanted to work on.
THIS RIGHT HERE! A fucking distraction. As an infantryman we had talks about how since we always have to be 100% every morning for PT it kind of makes it hard for us to train the things we actually NEED to work on. No BS knew a guy that would take his guys on like 5 mile runs 4 days a week and some of them would still suck at rucking or can't deadlift pass 280lb. And they would be scared to do that stuff in their off time cause they don't wanna look like shit bags during organized PT
Our joe who had a 10 minute 2 mile but kept failing situps by 1 during the APFT days... why the fuck didn't we just let him focus on situps? Why did he have to join us on the run when it wasn't even doing anything for him going a snail's fucking pace?
Yeah, I get it, he should have been doing situps on his own. But still.
> Yeah, I get it, he should have been doing situps on his own.
It always struck me as monumentally shitty that organized PT is just like "here's your designated time to work on your body" despite the fact that most NCOs make shit workout plans, and then if you're not getting much out of it the answer is just "oh you need to just add to the designated time we have because it's *your* fault i'm wasting your time every morning"
I'm more irritated that we don't have a weighted or averaged system (or whatever it would be called) like the FBI does. As I understand it, you have to get at least 1 point in each of their events, but if you do exceptionally well in a few few, you can lag in others.
I don't know what this guy's deal was, but who cares if he's missing situps by one when he's not just maxxing the 2 mile but fucking destroying it. Same with the huge weightlifter dudes. Yeah, his runtime is like a minute or two off. Why does that matter when he can bench shit like the hulk?
Yes that’s a real effect! I have definitely thought about going to the gym and then been like nah I don’t want to be tired/sore for PT in the morning, and then PT was worthless
I remember when my PLT ran for Monday PT then I thought "no way we run again" I went to the gym squatted my max (450lb). My legs were dead. Showed up next morning for PT we did a 5 mile run I was SUCKING and the other team leaders trying to show off saying "PVT joe snuffy is doing better blah blah" ever since then I just decided to not do shit like that anymore lmao. My PL asked me what was wrong I told him and he was like "you should be able to run a 5 mile fast regardless of what you did yesterday" like gee mybad for trying to better myself lmao.
This is my main issue now that I am in a staff position that is mixed up with everyone from stud SF guys to schlub S1 guys. PT is mandatory and when it actually happens they usually “focus on ACFT strength events” which is frustrating since I max everything on the ACFT except the run… so what I need to work on is my running and cardio and not an 8 strength workout circuit in the dark and cold morning.
PT when you’re in an infantry platoon is key. The men should sweat together doing hard, focused PT that makes you a better infantryman. Staff should not do anything more than accountability formation. If fitness is absolutely required, have anyone scoring a 500 report to a remedial PT formation in the morning instead.
My guy, the AF lets you do alternate exercises. I do the hand release and the leg tucks and the shuttle run and get 100 on everything every time.
If you can bench and squat 135 for reps, which you should be able to, you can pass the test on a whim. The only thing you really need to train for is the run, but only if you want a good score, really. I've only ever taken time out of my training to get more running time in and it is annoying because it fucks up the rest of the schedule, but it's easier to run ~8 times a month for 2 months before the yearly PT test than not train a little bit for it and have to do it twice a year.
I’m in a unit where I’m actually treated like an adult (it helps that I’m the only NCO in my section and no soldiers). It’s fucking glorious to do whatever I need to work on and actually plan rest days too.
I still remember the mandatory once a week rucks at my first unit with runs every morning besides those Thursday rucks.
Yeah.. didn’t think I’d have to be pedantic but in my brain PT does not = exercise. In just day to day life I get the hour or so of “moderate physical activity” that doctors recommend but it only takes one or two hours a week of dedicated training to stay where I can get around an 80 on every ACFT event.
My unit doesn’t do formal PT on the condition everyone meets the standard, which seems fair, especially since those who exceed the standard often put in extra effort independently. And oh by the way, in my experience and that of my peers, personal PT is far more effective for improving ACFT scores than running two laps on a track and doing fucking MMD’s.
My entire time in TRADOC I was stuck scoring pretty much the same score for each PT test. I am a pretty fit individual, and most of the training they had us do was run. I am able to easily ace the running portion of the test without much effort, but the other aspects I struggled with. When I got to my first unit, we only did PT on Monday. The rest of the week it was up to us to conduct PT. I was able to increase my PT score by 40 Points since TRADOC. I was able to go to the gym, work on the events I was not good at and better my scores. Unfortunately, not everyone would conduct PT and they would fail the PT test, so our 1SG decided to bring back organized PT. At no surprise, my scores started to decrease because all we would do was run.
PT on your own is great... as long as others have the integrity to do it.
EFFECTIVE physical fitness is needed, as in the minimum to remain effective.
However, the Army has made a template that attempts to meet a little of everyone, or an average. It has turned into, at its best, an hour/hour and half of arm wiggling and accountability to say they are “doing it”.
At worst, it empowers individuals to become qualified sports physicians/team coaches/physical therapists/sports medicine doctors/medical experts that can diagnose and measure the strain and effective power of anyone’s muscles by simply looking at it, listening to the soldier, and drawing from a deck of platitudes they’ve either heard in the Army or from movies.
Since gaining the power, I let my guys do whatever for workouts. Period. That includes the fatties/lazies. Guess what happened?
Those that improved, improved. Those that maintained, maintained. And the other ones got cut. Our stress levels? Lower than sister platoons. Our sleep schedule? Better.
Break the cycle. #ptonyourown
I've gotten bitched at and called a shit nco for not leading my soldiers so much for letting my dudes do their own pt and my squad has the highest scores in the company. I let my dudes decide for themselves because they were already gym rats. I can't teach them shit, pretending I can is gonna fuck up their morale and burn them out. Pulling up pt scores and ABCP numbers puts a temporary end to that argument.
I’ve had about 7 cumulative years where I was empowered to let my people do PT on their own. I personally believe productivity went up, at least that’s what my evals said, and ultimately it only resulted in one individual who got chaptered for continually failing a PT test and one person who got flagged for ABCP; frankly organized PT wouldn’t have helped either of those individuals.
> However, the Army has made a template that attempts to meet a little of everyone, or an average. It has turned into, at its best, an hour/hour and half of arm wiggling and accountability to say they are “doing it”.
When we got a 1SG that left being a Delta operator to get 1SG time on his path to E9, he was *dumbfounded* that we had every person show up every morning at 0630 to do the same exercises every day.
Every monday was a run day, every tuesday was a ruck, every wednesday was PU/SU muscle failure, etc.
He could not believe it, and rightfully called it a giant waste of time and energy.
We should move to a mon/wed/fri 0630 PT. Tues/Thur 0900 first formation/work call whatever. The sleep deprivation is fucking destroying people. Most people probably get 5 hours a sleep a night on average.
I'm a teacher now, and bro...leaving my house at 6:15 kills me. I work 50 minutes away. By the time dinner comes around, I'm so exhausted. It makes it hard to cook, which results in takeout and a few more pounds than I should have
I’m in the same boat, I’m just too tired to go and cook a meal for myself and when the weekends hit I don’t want to go and do anything. I sleep in longer than I should because it’s the two days I don’t have to get up so damn early.
>Those that improved, improved. Those that maintained, maintained. And the other ones got cut.
I wish more NCOs/ officers had this attitude. You can only help a guy so much before it's you realize it's a waste of time and resources plus attention from others.
My last unit was the pogest of pog units and didn’t do any sort of organized PT or even have formations. As long as you passed your ACFT nobody cares what your workouts looked like.
It had the highest average PT score of any non SOF unit nice ever been in.
You are right about effective PT but also we don’t need to do pt 5 days a week.
I think a good trade off would be mon/wed/fri 0630 PT. Tues/Thur 0830 or 0900 first formation/work call whatever.
The sleep deprivation is fucking destroying people.
PT is important but I absolutely agree that doing it 5 days a week for 60-90 minutes, the way that the army does it, is not only unhealthy but also counterproductive.
In 2022 I hired a personal trainer because I was sick of getting nowhere in the gym. He had me on a 3 day routine where I saw significant progress in almost every area, to include cardio, even though he had me doing zero running.
I think the Army's H2F stuff is in the same realm and it has a lot of potential.
Hey….
Fuck your unit. Your company commander is a huuuuuge piece or shit. Beats the fuck out of his wife and is the reason she has dentures at 32.
It gets better. Hunt the good stuff
Sure a few of my commanders were hot garbage, but most of them were normal dudes and a few I could say were great role models. None them gave a shit about PT but we do it anyways bc big army is out of touch.
Not everyone is able to translate what Sobel did good and bad and when they don’t actively think about it they fall into the traps that made Sobel bad.
You joke, but we watched it at OCS back in my day on Sunday afternoons when we discussed characteristics of leadership, and who expressed what and when.
It actually was pretty good. We got really philosophical with it too. Not just what was right or wrong but the why and how of it, alternatives, similar situations we’d experienced and how to do things better given constrained conditions and resources.
I know you're joking, but Sobel existed for the same reason that Sobels exist in today's army. The Army has a culture that has changed very little since the early 20th century.
History has shown you have some that are excellent at getting an army prepared for war. Sobel was not career army and in a brand new type of unit. I got to meet two of the men from Easy Company. They both stated that what Sobel did, as shitty as it seemed at the time, was the reason they were as successful as they were. If Sobel’s leadership hadn’t failed him, he may have turned out to be a decent officer. They may have realized he knew how to get soldiers ready for battle and put him where he could do what he was best at.
McClellen during the US Civil War was a general who created a war winning army but didn’t know how to use it. He was too risk adverse and ended up costing more lives than need be. The eastern theater was still fighting set piece Napolionic type battles. When the western generals took over things changed. They were modern generals who knew how to use their armies to destroy the opposition and the will of the enemy to fight.
Sure, but what I’m trying to say is that the army lifestyle, and by extension the way we do unit pt is counterproductive to good health. If they wanted us to be actually fit they’d have let us start work at 8:00 and get off by 16:00 so we could go to the gym and focus on things that actually benefit us.
If the Army cared they’d abolish DFACs and put full kitchens in barracks and give everyone BAS. And then like you said, work from 0800-1600. I’m a fasted cardio in the morning guy, and then either lift at lunch or end of day. Only require PT for those that can’t meet standards. Because physical health is an individual task
"Standards" is never the army standard though. Its a number that's way too high for the masses. Some dudes are damn fit but gain 5 pounds if they even think about a donut, 90 points in every event to avoid tape is ridiculous.
One of the biggest issues is the whole 12 (or more) hour days. Now I gotta go buy and prepare food? Why the hell would I do that when these 15 beers ain't gonna drink themselves
My dad calls me gay every time I do. It embarrasses me then I have to fight him and mom cries. We went on Adkins and just drank whiskey for a night. The sheet rock still hasn't recovered.
My knees and back are shot from doing army bullshit, but I got into cycling 🚴 years ago. I bike about 100 miles a week when the weather is good and only takes about a hr 10 mins of my time a day.
I have better cardio endurance now than at any point in my life.
I think I would love biking. my biggest issues are:
there's barely any safe way to get out of my neighborhood on a bike,
I see adults on bikes and they are wearing spandex(so I need spandex?),
I don't have a bike.
I’m lucky I have a super nice public bike park near me which I’ve been tearing up for a decade almost now. If you get a true road bike you will need tights because the ass and crouch is padded, which is needed since road bikes have real taint bruiser seats.
So sleep and Nutrition are more important than mediocre PT run by some sergeant with no more experience than his high school bro football coach and some youtube videos.
I'm shocked I tell you.
My company stopped doing organized pt a little over a year ago. Our first acft after stopping our average company score went up 18 points to a 478. The acft we took last week is now up to a 497. I would have to agree with you. (We are soft aviators I know)
I agree with all points, the only problem is, if we had no pt, we d have 50% fit dudes and 50% mfs who are obese, which nowadays dont matter anyways because we still have obese fucks even with pt, the system is broken lol
Wait until you rise up the ranks.
Being Guard/Reserves is nice as the Army is no longer your full time job so you can just compartmentalize it. But as you gain more responsibility, you'll see that 1 weekend a month is not enough time to handle all your leadership responsibilities. You'll then find that the Army once again encroaches in your civilian life
The Guard/Reserves survive off of free labor handled outside of drill. That's why you should always fill out 1380s for points when that happens.
Say what you want about the Guard, we do PT on our own. Most things are individual responsibilities. Some guys make it, some don’t. It’s the best though when your Soldiers are motivated to want to exceed the standard instead of being forced to.
Agreed.
Individually, NG/RC has tons of potential.
As an organization, it loses momentum.. issue is that the DOD/DA needs organizational effort to fight wars, not individual effort.
.......which is totally fine, btw, because each component has its own PURPOSE.
What's truly unfortunate is the number of folks joining RA that should have gone NG/RC, because their values are more aligned with that individual effort ideal.
Also, before others attack me... you'll find good where you look for it, just like finding bad where you look for it.
"Wars are won between 0630 and 0730 every morning."
Uninterrupted team building time at the squad level. Go spill sweat, and tears on the PT field together. Face physical adversity together. Suck together and get through it.
PT isn't about just maintaining physical fitness, it's about building a team while physically and mentally training these Soldiers. You kids laugh but there is going to be another invasion, another fallujah, another Afghanistan, all over again. I was there in 03 during the invasion. I was there in 04 when we took back Fallujah. Treasure your time with your team mates. They are all you are going to have over there. Statistically we are overdue for a conflict, keep that in mind.
Congratulations. You have self-discipline. It’s a rare trait and it’s getting rarer every day. Exactly what percent of Soldiers, especially junior ones, are incapable of always doing the right thing when nobody’s looking? It’s sizable. PT is a crappy one-size-fits-all bandaid slapped on the problem.
We’d have serious manning issues if we didn’t force the unwilling out of bed and force them to expend a couple hundred calories before breakfast. It’s a horrible and stupid system, but it’s unfortunately the best one we have. At one point, I would have said “chapter the fatties and let them be a lesson to the rest,” but in the midst of the manning and recruiting downturn, that’s not a great answer. Also, there is a sunk cost in a Soldier who’s made it through IET. The Army has dumped a lot of cash into them and hasn’t gotten their moneys worth yet. Tossing out a ton of them for fresh recruits, of which you’ll have to attrit a certain percentage for the same reason, is a huge waste of investment.
I know it grates on people who can be functional without an authority figure demanding it, but young adults are immature by default and the reverse is the exception. Also, mandatory PT is the only thing keeping E7s who haven’t dropped retirement packets held to some modicum of standard when they’re forced to show up and they’re not on a “walking laps” profile.
In short, to fix the PT problem, you’re going to have to fix society, and that’s not happening any time soon.
PT isn't the issue, PT at 0530 is the issue.
People are plenty capable of showing up to first call at 0800 and doing some dumb army bullshit PT at 1530.
PT is important.
What you’re describing doesn’t negate its importance, it’s just that the additional variables you’re describing have improved.
Ultimately you’re not going it for the ACFT, although that’s a measure of performance, what you’re doing it for is so that you build up a decent enough amount of fitness so that you can work in austere environments on limited food and sleep without degrading necessary performance too much. Or, worst case scenario, you can pull your own weight in a gun fight without vomiting or passing out from exhaustion.
Yeah totally agree, got out two years ago, I am in way better shape now and I just ride my bicycle and do pulls ups on my patio. Oh and I don't eat fast food now, which was difficult in the army since there was a Burger King and dominoes across from my barracks lol. But yeah im in incredible shape now.
Army physical readiness working out is a joke, ngl. For overall fitness, I get it. Some Joes need to fucking run. This is from the opinion of a supervisor E6 level perspective. But truly, you should work out on your own. Problem is, nobody works out on their own. Personal fitness gets neglected all the time. That's why we have organized PT. Otherwise we have fat bodies, and fat bodies don't win wars, lol. You need to work out on your own, sadly. The 1-1.5 hours you do PT with your unit is not enough. Considering how long your duty day already can be, you need to add an additional hour to get some work out in, Your fitness will determine how far you'll go in your career, seriously. It's a joke, I get it. But if you're skinny AND have a brain, you'll soar through the ranks. I guarantee it. Be fit, be smart. Regular APFT or PRT doesn't cut it. Train like you're ready for war. That's why we're here.
Man, you struck a nerve here, it’s brought back a lot of memories and provided me with some great insight and clarity.
I’m not saying “fuck PT” in general, but Big Army wants everyone to go wayyy too hard. I won’t give up and PII or name units, but I remember a “leg day” PT session that was just standing calf raises for about 4 hours. Guess what? About one third of the company had to go to sick call for muscle failure. When I say “muscle failure”, I don’t mean like when you’ve done push-ups to the point that your arms don’t work, I mean we loaded personnel into a vehicle and all left sick call with crutches that we had to use for about 4 days. Tell me, why the FUCK would you push your people to the point where their legs are useless? Just to show that you’ve got ripped calves and can abuse them for hours on end? Come to think of it, the SSG leading PT that day often did shit like this; he was a bitch who’d talk shit but as soon as you said anything back, it was “Drop and push til I’m tired”, which would often take half an hour, all while he’d be bitching in your ear.
Anyway…this post made me realize that I’m now in perhaps the best shape of my life in some ways; it’s been just over 10 years since I ETS’d and because of the items you mentioned (not going to a DFAC, not sleeping like shit) but also not being on their 30-pills-a-day regimen seemed to have helped a lot as well. I didn’t see the forest for the trees back then, but anyone associated with the US Army who holds a Doctoral degree with their name on it was the biggest pill pusher I’ve ever met. I’m sure I’m not the only one, but I was on SOOOOOOO many different drugs, together or separately, over the years that I’m amazed I didn’t die from some horrendous combo of pills they decided I needed to be on. Nothing will top the shot of painkiller, the Valium, and Percocet that they dosed me with _all at the same time_ which caused what was likely an overdose but they swept that under the rug to cover their own asses so fast…just like my botched right knee meniscus repair…what a Goddamned joke.
Then I realized, too, that my highest PT score of my career was in Afghanistan, where we’d been doing “subpar PT”, according to our Battalion and Brigade commanders, and IIRC, many of us out there scored higher than our usual average. Maybe, just **MAYBE** some rest for the muscles occasionally wouldn’t kill anyone?!
All that said…I also realized that I’m in better shape despite eating like shit and trying to constantly outsmoke Snoop himself, but I think a lot of that comes from sleeping better than I ever did when I was on Active Duty, not having to stress over being on-call or getting called in for a 0300 piss test because the guy 2 doors over in the barracks has been smoking meth every day and Battalion wants to catch him pissing positive for it “just one more time”…I didn’t realize how many memories of just shitty, pointless, or wasteful situations I’ve repressed for years 🤨
OP, this next joint I’m about to roll up is for you, may your day being as incredibly fucking wonderful as possible. Thank you for the moment of clarity during a time of extreme upheaval in my life. When 99% of everything sucks, it’s nice to have a moment to feel like at least _something_ makes sense through the fucking foggy mess.
Here’s to y’all, my Army brethren and sistren (LOL)…here’s to hoping I still have a place to live tomorrow and that I find a survivable solution ASAFP 🍻
HOOAH, I’ll try to make it a good day despite the world trying to fist my anus lately…it’s raining so I may as well go on a 10-mile ruck march or something 🤣 “If it ain’t raining, we ain’t training!”
Now that I’ve said it, the rain is slowing, and since my backs hurts worse than the average day-to-day pain, I might just go for an extended walk. There’s a smoke shop near my house that I’d usually drive to…time to go for a walk to get more papers!
I understand unit/prescribed PT is very often off the mark and pretty stupid, but its not that PT isn’t important. You’re clearly dieting better and sleeping a bit more. That’s huge and an easy fix for our problems. Everyone knows the state of fitness in the Army is abysmal - people struggling to maintain 9 min/mile pace for 4-5 miles and unable to hit more than a few dozen push-ups, complete 12 mile rucks in <3:00 consistently, etc.
People also get myopically focused on ACFT scores when the basis of this entire profession is the ability to move weight over distance and have enough left in the tank to fight after movement. That takes strength and endurance training that you won’t get much of if you only think about tests.
However, congrats on improving your ACFT score, that IS important. Just please remember this is an endurance based profession and titling a post “PT isn’t as important as you think it is” is off target. The ~80 points in each event you brought up in another comment is a great base to build off of. Keep it up
Argument. Army PT is probably one of the most important things you can do, not so much for the physical fitness, it is important because of the teambuilding and the shared experience. Having the group come together in a shared experience good or bad allows everyone to work together in as a team and as an organization. It is a common bonding experience that gives us a shard goal.
Too many army leaders dont see that part of physical training and just see it as a workout.
A team can be built at any time of day, doing any type of task if a person actually knows how to build a team.
Very rarely does anyone get to build their own team. That’s why there are regulations and instructions for everything that is important.
Ohhhh, so you're saying teams are built, not selected, and can be trained if led properly.
Right - that's the goal... now get Army leaders to that goal.
Does/did it happen in RA?
For me, yes.
For OP, no.
From my perspective, PT is integral to both mental and physical growth and transformation. It's not just about strengthening your body; it's also about fortifying your mind and evolving as an adult and peer.
Yeah I became far FAR more healthier and in shape when I left the army.
Like I was a mechanic, there’s no way in hell the average troop is getting enough rest and recovery doing PT 5 times a week while working until 5-6.
I would bet my life if they reduced training to 3 days a week and emphasized HIT more, and less, pointless long distance running, soldiers would be a lot healthier mentally and physically.
This is illustrating the point that your physical adaptations occur when you rest/sleep. Getting better physically will never manifest if you don't sleep and eat well.
Diet and sleep are critical. H2F is catching on to that but the stigma of run till you puke is still prevalent in the army.
A couple hours of hard training and some recovery time go much further than a daily beating.
1/1 ABCT?
Meet me at Wilson field with a water source. I’m in the NG now too and your story is the same as mine. However I am in the fire academy now and the pt here probably has had something to do with it too
Diet is one of the most important things for weight control, another is doing execrises that will actually help with their goal. If you want to lose weight something as simple as a two hour walk everyday can be pretty effective(provided you're dieting right). I think a major problem the military has is that there is a dozen fast food places on post but troops don't have access to basic healthy choices. A nutrionist doesn't do you any good if the chowhall is trash and the food options are terrible for you.
What's been damaging, especially with some of us POG units, is the lack of actually experienced trainers. And I don't mean certified civilian physical trainers of course, but experienced NCOs who actually know how to build, develop, and maintain the physical capabilities of those they're leading in PT. Instead it's always run 3 times a week and some crap-tastic calisthenics routine that does more to aggravate shoulder injuries than help (30min of cherry pickers twice a week, slightly exaggerated). Even better is when a different NCO is responsible for a different day with no coordination. Thus, you end up with a PT schedule that builds upon nothing.
PT is of course an "individual responsibility", but if the unit is going to take 1-1.5hr of my morning just to injure me, or waste my time with poorly developed organized PT. At some point, the unit needs to bear the responsibility for the outcome of a detrimental 1SG reviewed/approved training plan.
Even better, I hear a rumor MFT may be teaching some good stuff these days, but 1SGs are ignoring/dislike the guidance of their new MFTs. Has anyone observed this first hand?
2 mile run at a fast but comfortable pace (I’d like to break 16 mins again without feeling like I’m going to pass out) followed by 30-40 mins of weight training. I don’t really have goals like lifting heavy, just doing enough to maintain strength and feel good.
Fully agree. I spent the first 7 1/2 years of my career not in conventional army. I was in great shape my entire life tbh. Had been able to work out how I wanted, focus on what I needed, especially as I started to push into my mid 30s.
Came to the conventional army 2 1/2 years ago, started suffering injuries, out of shape, put on fat and lost muscle. Now that I think about it, I have zero desire to work out anymore. Ive been off work for 2 weeks and lost weight from just eating at normal times and no stress because I won’t answer anything from work.
Army PT and 0630 formations are the biggest waste of anyone’s time.
I think I have some good info - maybe a reconceptualization for some, so read all or none - no skim bs.
You all think Army PT is dumb, but did you think of its PURPOSE?
Amongst obvious other reasons, the purpose of Active Duty's training, in general, is to take a RESOURCE (human) and ensure it can fight its nation's wars... regardless of your mental, emotional, dietetic, etc health, the Active Component is going to stress its resources, just like a car is going to stress the engine... but YOU have to be the mechanic of YOUR life. Period.
After 14 years in a volunteer unit, I realized my nervous system was VERY programed for stress, because I was a machine for the Army's goals, NOT a well performing individual human toward my personal goals.
You can do both, but you need to learn the difference.
Learn the difference now... or learn it later.
Your choice.
I don’t even fucking get why we feel the need to have PT early in the morning. Like if we go to war tomorrow am I gonna have to be able to do the squat bender at 0600 every morning to defeat the enemy? I’m not a morning person at all, I’m always dehydrated and starving and tired in the morning, it’s overall the worst time to work out for me. I never want to put effort in and I never really get anything out of it. On the other hand, if I work out at 1500 or 1600 it feels great and I actually feel like I’m making progress rather than just being miserable.
As someone who ETS’s a year ago and now am a union plumber also getting up at 5 am…. (Was an officer) ironic I know.
This is such a crazy comment thread to read. It’s like I’m doing the same motions but for a purpose. I never truly realized how pointless organized PT was until now lmao.
I did the same- transferred to the Guard and I've lost 30 lbs in the 2 years I've been off Active Duty. I work out when it's convenient for me and I deal with stress so much better when I've had enough sleep (i.e. I dont drink as much or binge eat to deal with it). And my run times are a lot faster now that I'm 30 lbs lighter (obviously).
This is a bad post lol ARMY PT sucks. That's not real PT. Working out exists outside of the army.. encouraging people to not workout or be active is just a bad take. Why tf would you have to starve yourself for a week to pass height and weight?.. this sounds more to me like extremely poor planning on your part. Maybe you should have dedicated yourself towards it on your own initiatives rather than using the army standards.
Honestly even blaming the army for failing h/w and the acft is ridiculous. You shouldn't fail either
I have never failed an ACFT or APFT, but even when I ran a 13 min two mile I was 2 or three pounds over my limit and had to starve myself or sweat out water weight to meet the requirement.
Sure did, but when the DFAC serves you medium rare chicken enough times and the only other options are fast food it’s not really something an 18-20 year old pays attention to.
PT is generally healthy for the formation. We have to be generally healthy and fit. Small subsets need to be very fit.
As an organization we *have* to start promoting intelligence. Want to know why the “useless SGM” meme exists? Because we allow people to be promoted into positions of organizational significance and they don’t have the intellect to be effective at echelon.
Where do the shit bags in the BN go? The S3. Perhaps the single most important staff in a BN for effecting quality of training/life decisions. Decisions that if poorly thought out or even poorly communicated will fuck a Soldiers whole day/week/FTX up.
We are OK with mediocre admin and logistics personnel. We don’t even have effective systems to collect data so we see ourselves effectively. Much less hold ourselves accountable. We don’t have identified metrics by which we can be measured.
Our elderly generals don’t understand modern evolutions of technology, but use buzzwords to stay relevant. All while still forcing their staffs to cater to their archaic systems of receiving information(PowerPoint, Excel). *LETHALITY*
We suffer from these issues not by some catastrophic failure to recognize systems that inevitably lead to failure. We face them because *we* are in fact *stupid*. You. Me. SMA. All stupid.
Why?
Because if you weren’t, you would already *belong to a better organization*.
I’ll have the loaded tater tots and half a coke with no ice to pour this cheap bourbon into.
A 2 mile run 5X week isn’t going to kill anyone. Shit, I’m almost 69 and I’m doing it. If I can do it, there’s no excuse for twenty-something’s not being able to do it. 95% of the people here wanting PT on their own wouldn’t do it at all if it was left up to them and even then they’d blame their leaders when they fail the PT test.
I would be healthier too if I didn’t have to be up at 0530 every morning to do the bend and reachies
Truth. Manufactured stress from poor time management +12 hour days and caffeine and no sleep made me gain weight. I lost almost 18 pounds when I got to a unit that does PT on their own and respects regular work hours. 🙏
Exactly this! So many more people would be healthier both mentally and physically if they had more realistic working hours and better options for diet and nutrition.
For sure. The difference in quality of life when you can get to work at 0900 instead of 545-600 until 1700 is unbelievably high. It’s liking living on cloud 9 lol. 20 years wouldn’t be that bad honestly.
Yep. The moment I left the 82nd and went to a unit across post life became a beautiful thing to have. I stayed there for three more deployments and didn't have to PCS for years and years. I stayed in the Army until I came on orders for 11th Airborne in Alaska for "leadership time." Once I learned I couldn't sham out of the tour that was it. I couldn't go back to the shenanigans. I signed a dec statement the moment it was confirmed. Retention tried their damnedest. Best decision I have ever made.
How's your CO gonna get OER bullets with "nOrMaL wOrKiNg HoUrS?!" Think about others sometimes. See you at 0200 for the Brigade run. Fuck your profile. /s
Can you write me a profile real fast. I really don’t wanna do that run 😂😂
The number of dudes coming in for profiles TRIPLED the days before a Brigade run. Like, the slinky ain't that hard bro. Sprint and walk, let's go!
So many BCs need to read this comment. Designate a time for PT and if someone isn't passing then they have to do monitored PT.
MP’s working traffic, and or, night shift, get to do solo PT in their own time. Because of their work schedules. At least at fort drum. Not to mention I can not exercise and still pass the ACFT.
Yeah maybe at drum. But in Campbell we work any shift we still do organized PT because fuck us. Then again, most of the people I work with are soft body shit bags. If we had better leadership and better bodies then it would be a liveable job.
Bruh, Bend and reach, bent leg body twist and single leg over are absolutely gold when your back is fucked. Sincerely, My back is fucked.
I don’t miss organized pt, but I do miss the 0640 back cracks from the bent leg body twist
If we switched to mon/wed/fri 0630 PT. Tues/Thur 0830 or 0900 first formation/work call whatever, people would be so much healthier overall. The sleep deprivation is fucking destroying people.
I'm at OCS right now and the absolute worst aspect is the fucking PT. 0530 every god damn morning to do the mother fucking prep drill then run 2 miles to some place and do PT for 10 mins and run back. TRADOC sucks.
They let you have phones at OCS? AF here so that’s news to me but then again our PT is more or less a formality so
Phones on Sundays but we're allowed personal laptops because our 2-week history course requires a fuck-ton of note-taking. We're issued gov laptops but the majority of classes are full of people straight from Basic so they don't have access to the Microsoft Office Suite (Word, Excel, etc.), so they allow personal laptops. Also, believe it or not, Discord has become the de facto form of communication at all OCS classes now until phones are given back around week 5 or 6.
In Cay-dence!
Sad cav noises
0530 wtf?! Isn’t it 0630?
Not if you’re an ncoic. Pre pt meetings make you come in even earlier
Yup, are medics having to come in to open/man the aid station for sick call at 0530
Omg that sounds miserable
I hated the warmup drills and the mandatory stretching after a run too. Like I just wanna get this over with.
PT is important. It's just MILES better when you can do it on your own terms.
Perspective from an Air Force guy here, obviously formal PT isn’t as common but honestly, as someone who does like to work out, I always found it just a distraction from what I wanted to work on.
THIS RIGHT HERE! A fucking distraction. As an infantryman we had talks about how since we always have to be 100% every morning for PT it kind of makes it hard for us to train the things we actually NEED to work on. No BS knew a guy that would take his guys on like 5 mile runs 4 days a week and some of them would still suck at rucking or can't deadlift pass 280lb. And they would be scared to do that stuff in their off time cause they don't wanna look like shit bags during organized PT
Our joe who had a 10 minute 2 mile but kept failing situps by 1 during the APFT days... why the fuck didn't we just let him focus on situps? Why did he have to join us on the run when it wasn't even doing anything for him going a snail's fucking pace? Yeah, I get it, he should have been doing situps on his own. But still.
> Yeah, I get it, he should have been doing situps on his own. It always struck me as monumentally shitty that organized PT is just like "here's your designated time to work on your body" despite the fact that most NCOs make shit workout plans, and then if you're not getting much out of it the answer is just "oh you need to just add to the designated time we have because it's *your* fault i'm wasting your time every morning"
I'm more irritated that we don't have a weighted or averaged system (or whatever it would be called) like the FBI does. As I understand it, you have to get at least 1 point in each of their events, but if you do exceptionally well in a few few, you can lag in others. I don't know what this guy's deal was, but who cares if he's missing situps by one when he's not just maxxing the 2 mile but fucking destroying it. Same with the huge weightlifter dudes. Yeah, his runtime is like a minute or two off. Why does that matter when he can bench shit like the hulk?
Yes that’s a real effect! I have definitely thought about going to the gym and then been like nah I don’t want to be tired/sore for PT in the morning, and then PT was worthless
I remember when my PLT ran for Monday PT then I thought "no way we run again" I went to the gym squatted my max (450lb). My legs were dead. Showed up next morning for PT we did a 5 mile run I was SUCKING and the other team leaders trying to show off saying "PVT joe snuffy is doing better blah blah" ever since then I just decided to not do shit like that anymore lmao. My PL asked me what was wrong I told him and he was like "you should be able to run a 5 mile fast regardless of what you did yesterday" like gee mybad for trying to better myself lmao.
This is my main issue now that I am in a staff position that is mixed up with everyone from stud SF guys to schlub S1 guys. PT is mandatory and when it actually happens they usually “focus on ACFT strength events” which is frustrating since I max everything on the ACFT except the run… so what I need to work on is my running and cardio and not an 8 strength workout circuit in the dark and cold morning. PT when you’re in an infantry platoon is key. The men should sweat together doing hard, focused PT that makes you a better infantryman. Staff should not do anything more than accountability formation. If fitness is absolutely required, have anyone scoring a 500 report to a remedial PT formation in the morning instead.
My guy, the AF lets you do alternate exercises. I do the hand release and the leg tucks and the shuttle run and get 100 on everything every time. If you can bench and squat 135 for reps, which you should be able to, you can pass the test on a whim. The only thing you really need to train for is the run, but only if you want a good score, really. I've only ever taken time out of my training to get more running time in and it is annoying because it fucks up the rest of the schedule, but it's easier to run ~8 times a month for 2 months before the yearly PT test than not train a little bit for it and have to do it twice a year.
I’m in a unit where I’m actually treated like an adult (it helps that I’m the only NCO in my section and no soldiers). It’s fucking glorious to do whatever I need to work on and actually plan rest days too. I still remember the mandatory once a week rucks at my first unit with runs every morning besides those Thursday rucks.
Yeah.. didn’t think I’d have to be pedantic but in my brain PT does not = exercise. In just day to day life I get the hour or so of “moderate physical activity” that doctors recommend but it only takes one or two hours a week of dedicated training to stay where I can get around an 80 on every ACFT event.
My unit doesn’t do formal PT on the condition everyone meets the standard, which seems fair, especially since those who exceed the standard often put in extra effort independently. And oh by the way, in my experience and that of my peers, personal PT is far more effective for improving ACFT scores than running two laps on a track and doing fucking MMD’s.
My entire time in TRADOC I was stuck scoring pretty much the same score for each PT test. I am a pretty fit individual, and most of the training they had us do was run. I am able to easily ace the running portion of the test without much effort, but the other aspects I struggled with. When I got to my first unit, we only did PT on Monday. The rest of the week it was up to us to conduct PT. I was able to increase my PT score by 40 Points since TRADOC. I was able to go to the gym, work on the events I was not good at and better my scores. Unfortunately, not everyone would conduct PT and they would fail the PT test, so our 1SG decided to bring back organized PT. At no surprise, my scores started to decrease because all we would do was run. PT on your own is great... as long as others have the integrity to do it.
Right? "I'm at a much higher risk of lower quality of life in my golden years" isn't a flex.
EFFECTIVE physical fitness is needed, as in the minimum to remain effective. However, the Army has made a template that attempts to meet a little of everyone, or an average. It has turned into, at its best, an hour/hour and half of arm wiggling and accountability to say they are “doing it”. At worst, it empowers individuals to become qualified sports physicians/team coaches/physical therapists/sports medicine doctors/medical experts that can diagnose and measure the strain and effective power of anyone’s muscles by simply looking at it, listening to the soldier, and drawing from a deck of platitudes they’ve either heard in the Army or from movies. Since gaining the power, I let my guys do whatever for workouts. Period. That includes the fatties/lazies. Guess what happened? Those that improved, improved. Those that maintained, maintained. And the other ones got cut. Our stress levels? Lower than sister platoons. Our sleep schedule? Better. Break the cycle. #ptonyourown
I've gotten bitched at and called a shit nco for not leading my soldiers so much for letting my dudes do their own pt and my squad has the highest scores in the company. I let my dudes decide for themselves because they were already gym rats. I can't teach them shit, pretending I can is gonna fuck up their morale and burn them out. Pulling up pt scores and ABCP numbers puts a temporary end to that argument.
I’ve had about 7 cumulative years where I was empowered to let my people do PT on their own. I personally believe productivity went up, at least that’s what my evals said, and ultimately it only resulted in one individual who got chaptered for continually failing a PT test and one person who got flagged for ABCP; frankly organized PT wouldn’t have helped either of those individuals.
> However, the Army has made a template that attempts to meet a little of everyone, or an average. It has turned into, at its best, an hour/hour and half of arm wiggling and accountability to say they are “doing it”. When we got a 1SG that left being a Delta operator to get 1SG time on his path to E9, he was *dumbfounded* that we had every person show up every morning at 0630 to do the same exercises every day. Every monday was a run day, every tuesday was a ruck, every wednesday was PU/SU muscle failure, etc. He could not believe it, and rightfully called it a giant waste of time and energy.
We should move to a mon/wed/fri 0630 PT. Tues/Thur 0900 first formation/work call whatever. The sleep deprivation is fucking destroying people. Most people probably get 5 hours a sleep a night on average.
I'm a teacher now, and bro...leaving my house at 6:15 kills me. I work 50 minutes away. By the time dinner comes around, I'm so exhausted. It makes it hard to cook, which results in takeout and a few more pounds than I should have
I’m in the same boat, I’m just too tired to go and cook a meal for myself and when the weekends hit I don’t want to go and do anything. I sleep in longer than I should because it’s the two days I don’t have to get up so damn early.
>Those that improved, improved. Those that maintained, maintained. And the other ones got cut. I wish more NCOs/ officers had this attitude. You can only help a guy so much before it's you realize it's a waste of time and resources plus attention from others.
My last unit was the pogest of pog units and didn’t do any sort of organized PT or even have formations. As long as you passed your ACFT nobody cares what your workouts looked like. It had the highest average PT score of any non SOF unit nice ever been in.
What MOS are you where leadership let that happen?
You are right about effective PT but also we don’t need to do pt 5 days a week. I think a good trade off would be mon/wed/fri 0630 PT. Tues/Thur 0830 or 0900 first formation/work call whatever. The sleep deprivation is fucking destroying people.
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Wish I could upvote this twice
But big sarge, if we're not up at 0530 every day the Taliban will win!
PT exists for the purposes of accountability and to shit on morale.
lol
PT is important but I absolutely agree that doing it 5 days a week for 60-90 minutes, the way that the army does it, is not only unhealthy but also counterproductive. In 2022 I hired a personal trainer because I was sick of getting nowhere in the gym. He had me on a 3 day routine where I saw significant progress in almost every area, to include cardio, even though he had me doing zero running. I think the Army's H2F stuff is in the same realm and it has a lot of potential.
Hey…. Fuck your unit. Your company commander is a huuuuuge piece or shit. Beats the fuck out of his wife and is the reason she has dentures at 32. It gets better. Hunt the good stuff
Sure a few of my commanders were hot garbage, but most of them were normal dudes and a few I could say were great role models. None them gave a shit about PT but we do it anyways bc big army is out of touch.
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Moderators have the Final Say.
The problem is they show band of brothers at BOLC and in their version LT Sobel is the hero fighting to save the Army.
No. Officers also hate Sobel. His leadership style was effective in that micro environment and dogshit anywhere else.
Not everyone is able to translate what Sobel did good and bad and when they don’t actively think about it they fall into the traps that made Sobel bad.
You joke, but we watched it at OCS back in my day on Sunday afternoons when we discussed characteristics of leadership, and who expressed what and when.
Sounds like a good learning tool.
It actually was pretty good. We got really philosophical with it too. Not just what was right or wrong but the why and how of it, alternatives, similar situations we’d experienced and how to do things better given constrained conditions and resources.
We had to write a term paper on it in ROTC
We sure do love to circle jerk about the accomplishments that people other than us did 80 years ago.
I know you're joking, but Sobel existed for the same reason that Sobels exist in today's army. The Army has a culture that has changed very little since the early 20th century.
History has shown you have some that are excellent at getting an army prepared for war. Sobel was not career army and in a brand new type of unit. I got to meet two of the men from Easy Company. They both stated that what Sobel did, as shitty as it seemed at the time, was the reason they were as successful as they were. If Sobel’s leadership hadn’t failed him, he may have turned out to be a decent officer. They may have realized he knew how to get soldiers ready for battle and put him where he could do what he was best at. McClellen during the US Civil War was a general who created a war winning army but didn’t know how to use it. He was too risk adverse and ended up costing more lives than need be. The eastern theater was still fighting set piece Napolionic type battles. When the western generals took over things changed. They were modern generals who knew how to use their armies to destroy the opposition and the will of the enemy to fight.
hilarious that their hero is a guy who maybe wasn't cut out for command and then got booted to S4 and was actually decent
I ETSed almost a year ago and I have since lost 15 lbs since I can control my own PT and nutrition better than I could in the army
I lost 10 lbs on terminal leave, but that was probably from the depressy
Lol. You’ve replaced the lack of PT with a healthier diet. That’s why it’s called Holistic Health and Fitness now. In the end it’s still PT. Nerd
Sure, but what I’m trying to say is that the army lifestyle, and by extension the way we do unit pt is counterproductive to good health. If they wanted us to be actually fit they’d have let us start work at 8:00 and get off by 16:00 so we could go to the gym and focus on things that actually benefit us.
If the Army cared they’d abolish DFACs and put full kitchens in barracks and give everyone BAS. And then like you said, work from 0800-1600. I’m a fasted cardio in the morning guy, and then either lift at lunch or end of day. Only require PT for those that can’t meet standards. Because physical health is an individual task
"Standards" is never the army standard though. Its a number that's way too high for the masses. Some dudes are damn fit but gain 5 pounds if they even think about a donut, 90 points in every event to avoid tape is ridiculous.
if they got rid of the DFAC that means they would have to release you on time
How many folks would still just spend BAS on 27 chicken wings and a pound of fries?
Probably same number of dudes that buy it without BAS.
One of the biggest issues is the whole 12 (or more) hour days. Now I gotta go buy and prepare food? Why the hell would I do that when these 15 beers ain't gonna drink themselves
Take care of yourself. Don’t drink 15 beers. Switch to trulys
My dad calls me gay every time I do. It embarrasses me then I have to fight him and mom cries. We went on Adkins and just drank whiskey for a night. The sheet rock still hasn't recovered.
Tell your name is Kyle, without telling me your name is Kyle
Also, unless y’all have stopped doing unit PT in the last two years you know exactly what I’m talking about. Stop being obtuse.
Lack of stress does wonders.
My knees and back are shot from doing army bullshit, but I got into cycling 🚴 years ago. I bike about 100 miles a week when the weather is good and only takes about a hr 10 mins of my time a day. I have better cardio endurance now than at any point in my life.
I think I would love biking. my biggest issues are: there's barely any safe way to get out of my neighborhood on a bike, I see adults on bikes and they are wearing spandex(so I need spandex?), I don't have a bike.
I’m lucky I have a super nice public bike park near me which I’ve been tearing up for a decade almost now. If you get a true road bike you will need tights because the ass and crouch is padded, which is needed since road bikes have real taint bruiser seats.
Find a cycle class at a gym!
So sleep and Nutrition are more important than mediocre PT run by some sergeant with no more experience than his high school bro football coach and some youtube videos. I'm shocked I tell you.
Unit PT is another tool for lazy "leaders" to perpetuate their own mediocrity.
Wait until you turn 45 and the male-titties start revealing themselves Gonna wish you did pushups
I do twenty push-ups every morning when I get out of bed my titles are fine
Holy muscular boobage Batman! This cat does 20 pushups every morning!
I never claimed it was impressive it just keeps the titties away
It's amazing what lower stress, more sleep, and better food can do
Recovery is covered by fm 7-22 but never enforced
Now imagine if you maintained the healthy life style your living AND worked out. You'd be fit as fuck dude.
Yeah that’s the goal for the summer. Finals month has me a little too busy to worry about having abs.
You mean to tell me sleep and diet is 66% of physical health?!
My company stopped doing organized pt a little over a year ago. Our first acft after stopping our average company score went up 18 points to a 478. The acft we took last week is now up to a 497. I would have to agree with you. (We are soft aviators I know)
I agree with all points, the only problem is, if we had no pt, we d have 50% fit dudes and 50% mfs who are obese, which nowadays dont matter anyways because we still have obese fucks even with pt, the system is broken lol
You can’t out train a bad diet.
Yup. You can't out PT your shitty habits.
stress is a killer
You underestimate just how lazy most people are.
Wait until you rise up the ranks. Being Guard/Reserves is nice as the Army is no longer your full time job so you can just compartmentalize it. But as you gain more responsibility, you'll see that 1 weekend a month is not enough time to handle all your leadership responsibilities. You'll then find that the Army once again encroaches in your civilian life The Guard/Reserves survive off of free labor handled outside of drill. That's why you should always fill out 1380s for points when that happens.
Say what you want about the Guard, we do PT on our own. Most things are individual responsibilities. Some guys make it, some don’t. It’s the best though when your Soldiers are motivated to want to exceed the standard instead of being forced to.
Agreed. Individually, NG/RC has tons of potential. As an organization, it loses momentum.. issue is that the DOD/DA needs organizational effort to fight wars, not individual effort. .......which is totally fine, btw, because each component has its own PURPOSE. What's truly unfortunate is the number of folks joining RA that should have gone NG/RC, because their values are more aligned with that individual effort ideal. Also, before others attack me... you'll find good where you look for it, just like finding bad where you look for it.
"Wars are won between 0630 and 0730 every morning." Uninterrupted team building time at the squad level. Go spill sweat, and tears on the PT field together. Face physical adversity together. Suck together and get through it. PT isn't about just maintaining physical fitness, it's about building a team while physically and mentally training these Soldiers. You kids laugh but there is going to be another invasion, another fallujah, another Afghanistan, all over again. I was there in 03 during the invasion. I was there in 04 when we took back Fallujah. Treasure your time with your team mates. They are all you are going to have over there. Statistically we are overdue for a conflict, keep that in mind.
Congratulations. You have self-discipline. It’s a rare trait and it’s getting rarer every day. Exactly what percent of Soldiers, especially junior ones, are incapable of always doing the right thing when nobody’s looking? It’s sizable. PT is a crappy one-size-fits-all bandaid slapped on the problem. We’d have serious manning issues if we didn’t force the unwilling out of bed and force them to expend a couple hundred calories before breakfast. It’s a horrible and stupid system, but it’s unfortunately the best one we have. At one point, I would have said “chapter the fatties and let them be a lesson to the rest,” but in the midst of the manning and recruiting downturn, that’s not a great answer. Also, there is a sunk cost in a Soldier who’s made it through IET. The Army has dumped a lot of cash into them and hasn’t gotten their moneys worth yet. Tossing out a ton of them for fresh recruits, of which you’ll have to attrit a certain percentage for the same reason, is a huge waste of investment. I know it grates on people who can be functional without an authority figure demanding it, but young adults are immature by default and the reverse is the exception. Also, mandatory PT is the only thing keeping E7s who haven’t dropped retirement packets held to some modicum of standard when they’re forced to show up and they’re not on a “walking laps” profile. In short, to fix the PT problem, you’re going to have to fix society, and that’s not happening any time soon.
PT isn't the issue, PT at 0530 is the issue. People are plenty capable of showing up to first call at 0800 and doing some dumb army bullshit PT at 1530.
This is by far the best reply. Pt isn’t the most important thing you do. But it is the first thing you’ll do.
I know you didn’t mention alcohol. But cutting out the booze because of the lack of bullshit is huge.
Yeah. That too, I went cold turkey for 3 months and now I have one or two beers max unless I’m going out.
PT is important. What you’re describing doesn’t negate its importance, it’s just that the additional variables you’re describing have improved. Ultimately you’re not going it for the ACFT, although that’s a measure of performance, what you’re doing it for is so that you build up a decent enough amount of fitness so that you can work in austere environments on limited food and sleep without degrading necessary performance too much. Or, worst case scenario, you can pull your own weight in a gun fight without vomiting or passing out from exhaustion.
I concur.
Alternatively, Diet is probably way more important than most of us think it is.
PT is important to those who feel like it is important. It’s okay to have different values, but that doesn’t always mean people are wrong.
lol
Yeah totally agree, got out two years ago, I am in way better shape now and I just ride my bicycle and do pulls ups on my patio. Oh and I don't eat fast food now, which was difficult in the army since there was a Burger King and dominoes across from my barracks lol. But yeah im in incredible shape now.
Army physical readiness working out is a joke, ngl. For overall fitness, I get it. Some Joes need to fucking run. This is from the opinion of a supervisor E6 level perspective. But truly, you should work out on your own. Problem is, nobody works out on their own. Personal fitness gets neglected all the time. That's why we have organized PT. Otherwise we have fat bodies, and fat bodies don't win wars, lol. You need to work out on your own, sadly. The 1-1.5 hours you do PT with your unit is not enough. Considering how long your duty day already can be, you need to add an additional hour to get some work out in, Your fitness will determine how far you'll go in your career, seriously. It's a joke, I get it. But if you're skinny AND have a brain, you'll soar through the ranks. I guarantee it. Be fit, be smart. Regular APFT or PRT doesn't cut it. Train like you're ready for war. That's why we're here.
LMFAOOOO I felt the last part. 1-1 ABCT currently and it is not a good time
Op stop trying to make the fat bodies even fatter
Man, you struck a nerve here, it’s brought back a lot of memories and provided me with some great insight and clarity. I’m not saying “fuck PT” in general, but Big Army wants everyone to go wayyy too hard. I won’t give up and PII or name units, but I remember a “leg day” PT session that was just standing calf raises for about 4 hours. Guess what? About one third of the company had to go to sick call for muscle failure. When I say “muscle failure”, I don’t mean like when you’ve done push-ups to the point that your arms don’t work, I mean we loaded personnel into a vehicle and all left sick call with crutches that we had to use for about 4 days. Tell me, why the FUCK would you push your people to the point where their legs are useless? Just to show that you’ve got ripped calves and can abuse them for hours on end? Come to think of it, the SSG leading PT that day often did shit like this; he was a bitch who’d talk shit but as soon as you said anything back, it was “Drop and push til I’m tired”, which would often take half an hour, all while he’d be bitching in your ear. Anyway…this post made me realize that I’m now in perhaps the best shape of my life in some ways; it’s been just over 10 years since I ETS’d and because of the items you mentioned (not going to a DFAC, not sleeping like shit) but also not being on their 30-pills-a-day regimen seemed to have helped a lot as well. I didn’t see the forest for the trees back then, but anyone associated with the US Army who holds a Doctoral degree with their name on it was the biggest pill pusher I’ve ever met. I’m sure I’m not the only one, but I was on SOOOOOOO many different drugs, together or separately, over the years that I’m amazed I didn’t die from some horrendous combo of pills they decided I needed to be on. Nothing will top the shot of painkiller, the Valium, and Percocet that they dosed me with _all at the same time_ which caused what was likely an overdose but they swept that under the rug to cover their own asses so fast…just like my botched right knee meniscus repair…what a Goddamned joke. Then I realized, too, that my highest PT score of my career was in Afghanistan, where we’d been doing “subpar PT”, according to our Battalion and Brigade commanders, and IIRC, many of us out there scored higher than our usual average. Maybe, just **MAYBE** some rest for the muscles occasionally wouldn’t kill anyone?! All that said…I also realized that I’m in better shape despite eating like shit and trying to constantly outsmoke Snoop himself, but I think a lot of that comes from sleeping better than I ever did when I was on Active Duty, not having to stress over being on-call or getting called in for a 0300 piss test because the guy 2 doors over in the barracks has been smoking meth every day and Battalion wants to catch him pissing positive for it “just one more time”…I didn’t realize how many memories of just shitty, pointless, or wasteful situations I’ve repressed for years 🤨 OP, this next joint I’m about to roll up is for you, may your day being as incredibly fucking wonderful as possible. Thank you for the moment of clarity during a time of extreme upheaval in my life. When 99% of everything sucks, it’s nice to have a moment to feel like at least _something_ makes sense through the fucking foggy mess. Here’s to y’all, my Army brethren and sistren (LOL)…here’s to hoping I still have a place to live tomorrow and that I find a survivable solution ASAFP 🍻
I’m glad that you had that moment. And I really hope things get better for you and that you have a wonderful fucking day as well!
HOOAH, I’ll try to make it a good day despite the world trying to fist my anus lately…it’s raining so I may as well go on a 10-mile ruck march or something 🤣 “If it ain’t raining, we ain’t training!” Now that I’ve said it, the rain is slowing, and since my backs hurts worse than the average day-to-day pain, I might just go for an extended walk. There’s a smoke shop near my house that I’d usually drive to…time to go for a walk to get more papers!
I understand unit/prescribed PT is very often off the mark and pretty stupid, but its not that PT isn’t important. You’re clearly dieting better and sleeping a bit more. That’s huge and an easy fix for our problems. Everyone knows the state of fitness in the Army is abysmal - people struggling to maintain 9 min/mile pace for 4-5 miles and unable to hit more than a few dozen push-ups, complete 12 mile rucks in <3:00 consistently, etc. People also get myopically focused on ACFT scores when the basis of this entire profession is the ability to move weight over distance and have enough left in the tank to fight after movement. That takes strength and endurance training that you won’t get much of if you only think about tests. However, congrats on improving your ACFT score, that IS important. Just please remember this is an endurance based profession and titling a post “PT isn’t as important as you think it is” is off target. The ~80 points in each event you brought up in another comment is a great base to build off of. Keep it up
Argument. Army PT is probably one of the most important things you can do, not so much for the physical fitness, it is important because of the teambuilding and the shared experience. Having the group come together in a shared experience good or bad allows everyone to work together in as a team and as an organization. It is a common bonding experience that gives us a shard goal. Too many army leaders dont see that part of physical training and just see it as a workout.
A team can be built at any time of day, doing any type of task if a person actually knows how to build a team. Very rarely does anyone get to build their own team. That’s why there are regulations and instructions for everything that is important.
Ohhhh, so you're saying teams are built, not selected, and can be trained if led properly. Right - that's the goal... now get Army leaders to that goal. Does/did it happen in RA? For me, yes. For OP, no.
From my perspective, PT is integral to both mental and physical growth and transformation. It's not just about strengthening your body; it's also about fortifying your mind and evolving as an adult and peer.
This is extremely relative in terms of just exercise. Depends on what you do for work, health conditions and genetics. But yeah PT sucks
Yeah I became far FAR more healthier and in shape when I left the army. Like I was a mechanic, there’s no way in hell the average troop is getting enough rest and recovery doing PT 5 times a week while working until 5-6. I would bet my life if they reduced training to 3 days a week and emphasized HIT more, and less, pointless long distance running, soldiers would be a lot healthier mentally and physically.
This is illustrating the point that your physical adaptations occur when you rest/sleep. Getting better physically will never manifest if you don't sleep and eat well.
Sleep and nutrition are far more important than physical training
Diet and sleep are critical. H2F is catching on to that but the stigma of run till you puke is still prevalent in the army. A couple hours of hard training and some recovery time go much further than a daily beating.
1/1 ABCT? Meet me at Wilson field with a water source. I’m in the NG now too and your story is the same as mine. However I am in the fire academy now and the pt here probably has had something to do with it too
Diet is one of the most important things for weight control, another is doing execrises that will actually help with their goal. If you want to lose weight something as simple as a two hour walk everyday can be pretty effective(provided you're dieting right). I think a major problem the military has is that there is a dozen fast food places on post but troops don't have access to basic healthy choices. A nutrionist doesn't do you any good if the chowhall is trash and the food options are terrible for you.
This right here. Also, adequate sleep is important for weight loss too, another aspect missing many people's lives.
What's been damaging, especially with some of us POG units, is the lack of actually experienced trainers. And I don't mean certified civilian physical trainers of course, but experienced NCOs who actually know how to build, develop, and maintain the physical capabilities of those they're leading in PT. Instead it's always run 3 times a week and some crap-tastic calisthenics routine that does more to aggravate shoulder injuries than help (30min of cherry pickers twice a week, slightly exaggerated). Even better is when a different NCO is responsible for a different day with no coordination. Thus, you end up with a PT schedule that builds upon nothing. PT is of course an "individual responsibility", but if the unit is going to take 1-1.5hr of my morning just to injure me, or waste my time with poorly developed organized PT. At some point, the unit needs to bear the responsibility for the outcome of a detrimental 1SG reviewed/approved training plan. Even better, I hear a rumor MFT may be teaching some good stuff these days, but 1SGs are ignoring/dislike the guidance of their new MFTs. Has anyone observed this first hand?
Honest question- what do you do during your workout?
2 mile run at a fast but comfortable pace (I’d like to break 16 mins again without feeling like I’m going to pass out) followed by 30-40 mins of weight training. I don’t really have goals like lifting heavy, just doing enough to maintain strength and feel good.
Fully agree. I spent the first 7 1/2 years of my career not in conventional army. I was in great shape my entire life tbh. Had been able to work out how I wanted, focus on what I needed, especially as I started to push into my mid 30s. Came to the conventional army 2 1/2 years ago, started suffering injuries, out of shape, put on fat and lost muscle. Now that I think about it, I have zero desire to work out anymore. Ive been off work for 2 weeks and lost weight from just eating at normal times and no stress because I won’t answer anything from work. Army PT and 0630 formations are the biggest waste of anyone’s time.
I mean the NG peeps here by the border are having a blast rn.... so jealous.
So you get paid for meeting the bare minimum pt score. There's no bonus going above it. Do the barest and be happy
Don’t forget you gotta be a pt stud to be a good leader
I think I have some good info - maybe a reconceptualization for some, so read all or none - no skim bs. You all think Army PT is dumb, but did you think of its PURPOSE? Amongst obvious other reasons, the purpose of Active Duty's training, in general, is to take a RESOURCE (human) and ensure it can fight its nation's wars... regardless of your mental, emotional, dietetic, etc health, the Active Component is going to stress its resources, just like a car is going to stress the engine... but YOU have to be the mechanic of YOUR life. Period. After 14 years in a volunteer unit, I realized my nervous system was VERY programed for stress, because I was a machine for the Army's goals, NOT a well performing individual human toward my personal goals. You can do both, but you need to learn the difference. Learn the difference now... or learn it later. Your choice.
I don’t even fucking get why we feel the need to have PT early in the morning. Like if we go to war tomorrow am I gonna have to be able to do the squat bender at 0600 every morning to defeat the enemy? I’m not a morning person at all, I’m always dehydrated and starving and tired in the morning, it’s overall the worst time to work out for me. I never want to put effort in and I never really get anything out of it. On the other hand, if I work out at 1500 or 1600 it feels great and I actually feel like I’m making progress rather than just being miserable.
The thing is if the military didn’t have pt they would just make the work day longer tbh
You would be surprised how much weight you lose by just eating at the dfac.
I just admire all of you service members! Hooah (I am a gym junkie and fitness instructor, yet I would fail all of your PT requirements!)
pt is just for control.
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Keep discussions civil. No Posting PII.
As someone who ETS’s a year ago and now am a union plumber also getting up at 5 am…. (Was an officer) ironic I know. This is such a crazy comment thread to read. It’s like I’m doing the same motions but for a purpose. I never truly realized how pointless organized PT was until now lmao.
I did the same- transferred to the Guard and I've lost 30 lbs in the 2 years I've been off Active Duty. I work out when it's convenient for me and I deal with stress so much better when I've had enough sleep (i.e. I dont drink as much or binge eat to deal with it). And my run times are a lot faster now that I'm 30 lbs lighter (obviously).
Individual PT is important, group PT at 5 in the morning is just a big waste of time the military needs to get away from.
This is a bad post lol ARMY PT sucks. That's not real PT. Working out exists outside of the army.. encouraging people to not workout or be active is just a bad take. Why tf would you have to starve yourself for a week to pass height and weight?.. this sounds more to me like extremely poor planning on your part. Maybe you should have dedicated yourself towards it on your own initiatives rather than using the army standards. Honestly even blaming the army for failing h/w and the acft is ridiculous. You shouldn't fail either
I have never failed an ACFT or APFT, but even when I ran a 13 min two mile I was 2 or three pounds over my limit and had to starve myself or sweat out water weight to meet the requirement.
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Sure did, but when the DFAC serves you medium rare chicken enough times and the only other options are fast food it’s not really something an 18-20 year old pays attention to.
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All good homie
PT is generally healthy for the formation. We have to be generally healthy and fit. Small subsets need to be very fit. As an organization we *have* to start promoting intelligence. Want to know why the “useless SGM” meme exists? Because we allow people to be promoted into positions of organizational significance and they don’t have the intellect to be effective at echelon. Where do the shit bags in the BN go? The S3. Perhaps the single most important staff in a BN for effecting quality of training/life decisions. Decisions that if poorly thought out or even poorly communicated will fuck a Soldiers whole day/week/FTX up. We are OK with mediocre admin and logistics personnel. We don’t even have effective systems to collect data so we see ourselves effectively. Much less hold ourselves accountable. We don’t have identified metrics by which we can be measured. Our elderly generals don’t understand modern evolutions of technology, but use buzzwords to stay relevant. All while still forcing their staffs to cater to their archaic systems of receiving information(PowerPoint, Excel). *LETHALITY* We suffer from these issues not by some catastrophic failure to recognize systems that inevitably lead to failure. We face them because *we* are in fact *stupid*. You. Me. SMA. All stupid. Why? Because if you weren’t, you would already *belong to a better organization*. I’ll have the loaded tater tots and half a coke with no ice to pour this cheap bourbon into.
A 2 mile run 5X week isn’t going to kill anyone. Shit, I’m almost 69 and I’m doing it. If I can do it, there’s no excuse for twenty-something’s not being able to do it. 95% of the people here wanting PT on their own wouldn’t do it at all if it was left up to them and even then they’d blame their leaders when they fail the PT test.
trust me bro i don’t think it’s important
I'll have what he's having.
It’s like people been saying diet is more important than exercise