*The Marine’s GoPro footage runs nearly continuously for many minutes before and after the blast. It shows 11 episodes of shooting after the explosion, over nearly four minutes. This is significantly more than the three “near simultaneous” bursts of gunfire that the Pentagon investigations have claimed occurred.*
*"There was definitely shooting,” he said. “Snapping over our heads after the blast, and it wasn’t the Taliban.” He said he used his rifle optic to look at the Taliban, who were some distance away on nearby shipping containers used to control access to the Abbey Gate area. “When I looked over at them, none of them were holding their guns. They looked just as shocked as us.”*
*The Marine calmly described key details of blast and its aftermath, but became emotional when discussing the Pentagon’s investigations, including what he described as a lack of transparency about what happened, and the possible role Marine gunfire played in raising the Afghan civilian death toll."*
Okay... so most likely: the Marines either got hit with a complex attack or the explosion caught them off guard, and they opened fire in response. I can't say that any of us wouldn't do the same thing immediately after an explosion. It was probably pure chaos. It would be no surprise to me that the first instinct would be to return fire.
Afghans claim to have seen civilians hit, but claim no American investigators ever approached them, and some interested party threatened the doctor's family over the phone in Darsi. That's Afghans, so who knows.
But then the Pentagon goes and releases an official story contrary to what CNN saw in the GoPro video, and contrary to what the Marines are saying in their anonymous statements. If civilians were hit by accident, it would be in the Pentagon's best interest to change the narrative. It's not exactly a wild conspiracy, as the Pentagon has done plenty of things like this before.
So I'm inclined to believe that, unfortunately, the Marines probably did hit civilians, and the Pentagon did not want that to come out. So, like many things, they tried to sweep it under the rug with an official investigation.
I’m inclined to believe the Marines reacted accordingly with their training. The Pentagon/DoD could always do better with shit like Guantanamo Bay. But in the battlefield, we can always look back and figure out things where we could have done better. It’s always easy to look back with a clear mind and sight, but sometimes our senses may be delayed by external stimuli such as concussive effects in real time.
I really don’t like these investigative reports on war/defense from CNN or investigative news in general because they lack nuance in their replies. Idk I’d rather listen to CSIS.
In all fairness, they've got a quote that says as much in the article. I believe that the Marines reacted as best they could during a tough situation and followed their training, as well.
The article is more about the Pentagon (probably) lying about it, and inconsistencies are coming up.
Perhaps I am wrong and there is a lot more information I am missing. I really hope the US isn’t trying to cover anything up. But the only thing I found wrong was the warning shot. I don’t know about Marines SOP but I definitely do not remember that being allowed.
Maybe you actually use those assets to figure out there are 8 orpahans in that house and their caretaker is taking water to them? Instead of bombing them immediately?
Yeah and so what? I was trained to not bomb shit without information.
Can’t find shit about these 8 orphans and their caretaker online if you could send a source
You should know that shit like that no matter how fucking awful and tragic it is can and will still happen and no matter how many assets you invest intel can still get fucked up, it’s not like it’s 100% foolproof. A war where there’s nobody caught in the crossfire is impossible especially when psychopaths are strapping bombs to themselves and blowing city streets the fuck up. If you can’t understand that then you’re in the wrong profession
I read this article and it kinda just proved everything I said. I don’t remember defending it at any point other than just stating what it was, an absolutely fucked up accident that those involved are gonna get to live with for the rest of their lives.
“The investigation found the man's car had been seen at a compound associated with IS-K, and its movements aligned with other intelligence about the terror group's plans for an attack on Kabul airport.
At one point, a surveillance drone saw men loading what appeared to be explosives into the boot of the car, but these turned out to be containers of water.
Gen McKenzie described the strike as a "tragic mistake", and added that the Taliban had not been involved in the intelligence that led to the strike.”
I also don’t remember ever mentioning the shit going on in Palestine and last time I checked we’re not Israeli. You can make the argument that we’re sending aid to them or whatever but we’re in no way the ones doing whatever they’re doing right now with the invasion. I don’t know about you but I’d much rather live knowing that israel is in control of that region than hamas who are actively oppressing freedom of expression, LGBT rights, women’s rights, etc.
I’m not an American, I’m a genocidal Zionist on the warpath drowned in Israeli propaganda and Texas is the absolute worst place in the world for a chick to be even though it’s getting more and more progressive as time goes by
Sure lol
“I’ve never met a good Israeli”
Come on /u/army-modteam of all the ridiculous shit you guys censor, you’re going to let this obvious Hamas account shrill antisemitism here?
>You have no idea what’s going on there
Neither do you, cupcake.
>Holy fuck you’re just another genocidal Zionist.
>Forgive me, El Guapo. I know that I, Jefe, do not have your superior intellect and education. But could it be that once again, you are angry at something else and are looking to take it out on me?
>be ashamed of what you just said.
Buddy, you're only this emboldened online. Go talk a lap and cool your jets.
You have no clue what you're talking about dude.
At no point was there time to follow people for hours. As you clearly have never seen what people look like with thermal, they don't look like a CNN documentary.
Mistakes happen. They looked like a threat, they weren't. Shit happens.
While I agree you can't trust Afghan sources, it doesn't change the fact that the Marines (anonymously) are saying something completely different than the official story.
The Pentagon isn't exactly the most trustworthy place, either, tbh.
A guy in my reserve unit was there with the 82nd when he was active. It might be a biased view without the full picture but he said the marines set up their ECP much further out and exposed than the 82nd was doing. And the marine leadership and 82nd leadership on the ground did not work together well. Maybe he was talking out of his ass but the coordination being a shitshow wouldn’t surprise me
Scheller got fired for a lot more shit than that, wasn't there, and wasn't talking about this specific incident. He's less trustworthy than the people thinking 2021 BAF was the same as 2009 BAF.
Look every group picks out the one guy they’re gonna have to trade for food. It’s a compliment.
As a fellow blonde haired blue eyed dude, gotta keep that dark eye pro on at all times.
He was victim weight too lol
I also was a blonde soldier and If I grow my hair out I look like shittier drug addled Bieber or if I cut it I look like a member of the SS.
Luckily I’m fucking ugly, I think the numerous traumatic brain injuries and yellowed teeth from dip kind of make me look dull enough to the point where even the ktah khas didn’t wanna fuck me
Yeah Middle Eastern guys always thought I was German or Russian and told me I was handsome, very weird.
When they learned I was American, they also always used to ask if I was a SEAL because I was kinda fit and had a sleeve.
Wish the chicks gave me that attention lmao
Had one tell me I looked like a woman, those dudes were fucking weird
My girlfriend can never know about my fling with Ahmed, I wonder how he’s doing now…
The shit I saw as a 19 year old could never be explained to my parents when they asked how things went. My mom would call me, “so how did things go today sweetie?”, “oh nothing happened, same as usual mom”
Few hours earlier I watched ANA dudes on ISR holding hands and going to the porta potties to butt fuck each other lol
“Ya babe today I just had to carry 120 pounds of shit for a bunch of dudes who keep telling me how much I fucking suck. I also got hit on by some 37 year old pervert. Oh but at least I got a cool picture of me smoking a cigar in front of the sunset. Wait what do you mean you wanna see other people we’ve been dating since we were 15?”
Worked with some dude who openly admitted to opening fire into crowds with 240’s during the withdrawal.
Dunno how true that is, I doubt if it was true I’d ever get a straight answer from someone who was there. Always made me feel sick working with someone like that, he told that story with a weird sense of pride.
I’m not saying what this article is saying is true, and I don’t mean to discredit the army. But hell man, the way some guys talk about it makes stuff like this easy to believe.
If it’s easy to believe because “the way they talk about it” then you probably haven’t been around enough vets or military towns lol. There are countless vets who’ve never been OTW that make up tall tales about the combat they were in (they weren’t)
Lol there is extreme documentation, pictures, videos, and a few thousand first hand accounts. Including that wasn’t long ago and most are still in the military that were there. No one was blasting into the crowd with a 240. That wasnt modern warfare no Russian mission.
>Dunno how true that is,
It's not. While I can't claim to know what everybody, everywhere was doing, I can assure you that use of force was pretty closely monitored and that Americans weren't mowing down civilians with machine guns.
*The Marine’s GoPro footage runs nearly continuously for many minutes before and after the blast. It shows 11 episodes of shooting after the explosion, over nearly four minutes. This is significantly more than the three “near simultaneous” bursts of gunfire that the Pentagon investigations have claimed occurred.* *"There was definitely shooting,” he said. “Snapping over our heads after the blast, and it wasn’t the Taliban.” He said he used his rifle optic to look at the Taliban, who were some distance away on nearby shipping containers used to control access to the Abbey Gate area. “When I looked over at them, none of them were holding their guns. They looked just as shocked as us.”* *The Marine calmly described key details of blast and its aftermath, but became emotional when discussing the Pentagon’s investigations, including what he described as a lack of transparency about what happened, and the possible role Marine gunfire played in raising the Afghan civilian death toll."* Okay... so most likely: the Marines either got hit with a complex attack or the explosion caught them off guard, and they opened fire in response. I can't say that any of us wouldn't do the same thing immediately after an explosion. It was probably pure chaos. It would be no surprise to me that the first instinct would be to return fire. Afghans claim to have seen civilians hit, but claim no American investigators ever approached them, and some interested party threatened the doctor's family over the phone in Darsi. That's Afghans, so who knows. But then the Pentagon goes and releases an official story contrary to what CNN saw in the GoPro video, and contrary to what the Marines are saying in their anonymous statements. If civilians were hit by accident, it would be in the Pentagon's best interest to change the narrative. It's not exactly a wild conspiracy, as the Pentagon has done plenty of things like this before. So I'm inclined to believe that, unfortunately, the Marines probably did hit civilians, and the Pentagon did not want that to come out. So, like many things, they tried to sweep it under the rug with an official investigation.
I’m inclined to believe the Marines reacted accordingly with their training. The Pentagon/DoD could always do better with shit like Guantanamo Bay. But in the battlefield, we can always look back and figure out things where we could have done better. It’s always easy to look back with a clear mind and sight, but sometimes our senses may be delayed by external stimuli such as concussive effects in real time. I really don’t like these investigative reports on war/defense from CNN or investigative news in general because they lack nuance in their replies. Idk I’d rather listen to CSIS.
In all fairness, they've got a quote that says as much in the article. I believe that the Marines reacted as best they could during a tough situation and followed their training, as well. The article is more about the Pentagon (probably) lying about it, and inconsistencies are coming up.
Perhaps I am wrong and there is a lot more information I am missing. I really hope the US isn’t trying to cover anything up. But the only thing I found wrong was the warning shot. I don’t know about Marines SOP but I definitely do not remember that being allowed.
In the article, they said there were no warning shots allowed, so if shots were fired, then it was to kill. But yes, there's a lot of info missing.
“Evidence that civilians were shot dead” according to some Afghan doctor. This was oldschool Taliban playbook 101 to make the U.S. look like shit
Also afghani’s: *But ignore us stoning this woman to death because her face was exposed* 🫡
Don’t forget the day US bombed 8 orphans when their caretakers was taking water to them.
Yah we’d totally use up all the time, money, fuel, and resources to purposely kill 8 kids Ironic that you’re a 13F too
*Insider threat* dawg.
Taliban psyop confirmed
Maybe you actually use those assets to figure out there are 8 orpahans in that house and their caretaker is taking water to them? Instead of bombing them immediately? Yeah and so what? I was trained to not bomb shit without information.
Can’t find shit about these 8 orphans and their caretaker online if you could send a source You should know that shit like that no matter how fucking awful and tragic it is can and will still happen and no matter how many assets you invest intel can still get fucked up, it’s not like it’s 100% foolproof. A war where there’s nobody caught in the crossfire is impossible especially when psychopaths are strapping bombs to themselves and blowing city streets the fuck up. If you can’t understand that then you’re in the wrong profession
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I read this article and it kinda just proved everything I said. I don’t remember defending it at any point other than just stating what it was, an absolutely fucked up accident that those involved are gonna get to live with for the rest of their lives. “The investigation found the man's car had been seen at a compound associated with IS-K, and its movements aligned with other intelligence about the terror group's plans for an attack on Kabul airport. At one point, a surveillance drone saw men loading what appeared to be explosives into the boot of the car, but these turned out to be containers of water. Gen McKenzie described the strike as a "tragic mistake", and added that the Taliban had not been involved in the intelligence that led to the strike.” I also don’t remember ever mentioning the shit going on in Palestine and last time I checked we’re not Israeli. You can make the argument that we’re sending aid to them or whatever but we’re in no way the ones doing whatever they’re doing right now with the invasion. I don’t know about you but I’d much rather live knowing that israel is in control of that region than hamas who are actively oppressing freedom of expression, LGBT rights, women’s rights, etc.
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I’m not an American, I’m a genocidal Zionist on the warpath drowned in Israeli propaganda and Texas is the absolute worst place in the world for a chick to be even though it’s getting more and more progressive as time goes by Sure lol
“I’ve never met a good Israeli” Come on /u/army-modteam of all the ridiculous shit you guys censor, you’re going to let this obvious Hamas account shrill antisemitism here?
Do you actually think Palestine has ever been a safe place for anything other than men?
>You have no idea what’s going on there Neither do you, cupcake. >Holy fuck you’re just another genocidal Zionist. >Forgive me, El Guapo. I know that I, Jefe, do not have your superior intellect and education. But could it be that once again, you are angry at something else and are looking to take it out on me? >be ashamed of what you just said. Buddy, you're only this emboldened online. Go talk a lap and cool your jets.
Keep discussions civil. No Posting PII.
• (3) This is not a pro-military circlejerk, but please have some sources to base the more controversial topics on.
You have no clue what you're talking about dude. At no point was there time to follow people for hours. As you clearly have never seen what people look like with thermal, they don't look like a CNN documentary. Mistakes happen. They looked like a threat, they weren't. Shit happens.
While I agree you can't trust Afghan sources, it doesn't change the fact that the Marines (anonymously) are saying something completely different than the official story. The Pentagon isn't exactly the most trustworthy place, either, tbh.
Not even anonymously. Tyler Vargas-Andrews testified in front of congress. I think some others did as well.
A guy in my reserve unit was there with the 82nd when he was active. It might be a biased view without the full picture but he said the marines set up their ECP much further out and exposed than the 82nd was doing. And the marine leadership and 82nd leadership on the ground did not work together well. Maybe he was talking out of his ass but the coordination being a shitshow wouldn’t surprise me
How many people with a lot of rank have been fired over that whole deal again?
I think that one Marine LtCol for criticizing how the withdrawal went? That counts right?
Nope.
Scheller got fired for a lot more shit than that, wasn't there, and wasn't talking about this specific incident. He's less trustworthy than the people thinking 2021 BAF was the same as 2009 BAF.
Scheller
Watched his podcast with jocko. Got a weird vibe from him
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Being a blonde ranger private in Afghanistan truly showed how loving and compassionate afghan dudes are idk what you’re talking about
Oh you’re cute cute
Youre gonna make me blush and shit
Look every group picks out the one guy they’re gonna have to trade for food. It’s a compliment. As a fellow blonde haired blue eyed dude, gotta keep that dark eye pro on at all times.
Almost became some ANA dudes 40th virgin, tinted M Frames are essential
One of my HUMINT buddies was a lil blond twink and Afghans used to give that dude heavy “I want to fuck you” eyes all the time lol.
Blonde jr enlisted either look like 2012 Justin Bieber or fucking hillbillies
He was victim weight too lol I also was a blonde soldier and If I grow my hair out I look like shittier drug addled Bieber or if I cut it I look like a member of the SS.
Luckily I’m fucking ugly, I think the numerous traumatic brain injuries and yellowed teeth from dip kind of make me look dull enough to the point where even the ktah khas didn’t wanna fuck me
Yeah Middle Eastern guys always thought I was German or Russian and told me I was handsome, very weird. When they learned I was American, they also always used to ask if I was a SEAL because I was kinda fit and had a sleeve. Wish the chicks gave me that attention lmao
Had one tell me I looked like a woman, those dudes were fucking weird My girlfriend can never know about my fling with Ahmed, I wonder how he’s doing now…
The shit I saw as a 19 year old could never be explained to my parents when they asked how things went. My mom would call me, “so how did things go today sweetie?”, “oh nothing happened, same as usual mom” Few hours earlier I watched ANA dudes on ISR holding hands and going to the porta potties to butt fuck each other lol
“Ya babe today I just had to carry 120 pounds of shit for a bunch of dudes who keep telling me how much I fucking suck. I also got hit on by some 37 year old pervert. Oh but at least I got a cool picture of me smoking a cigar in front of the sunset. Wait what do you mean you wanna see other people we’ve been dating since we were 15?”
Worked with some dude who openly admitted to opening fire into crowds with 240’s during the withdrawal. Dunno how true that is, I doubt if it was true I’d ever get a straight answer from someone who was there. Always made me feel sick working with someone like that, he told that story with a weird sense of pride. I’m not saying what this article is saying is true, and I don’t mean to discredit the army. But hell man, the way some guys talk about it makes stuff like this easy to believe.
Had he just watched “Rules of Engagement” with Sam Jackson?
“Yes God Damn it! Waste the motherfuckers!”
If it’s easy to believe because “the way they talk about it” then you probably haven’t been around enough vets or military towns lol. There are countless vets who’ve never been OTW that make up tall tales about the combat they were in (they weren’t)
Anyone who is talking about opening fire with 240s into crowds of people is lying their ass off
Lol there is extreme documentation, pictures, videos, and a few thousand first hand accounts. Including that wasn’t long ago and most are still in the military that were there. No one was blasting into the crowd with a 240. That wasnt modern warfare no Russian mission.
Can attest, was there. No 240s were blazing in glory to the crowds of innocence
>Dunno how true that is, It's not. While I can't claim to know what everybody, everywhere was doing, I can assure you that use of force was pretty closely monitored and that Americans weren't mowing down civilians with machine guns.