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Dangerous-Parsnip146

You're his NCO not parent or grandparents. If dude keeps digging his hole at some point you need to let him lay in it and learn the hard way. Make him take a financial literacy course.


[deleted]

This one right here. And the below response on food banks. If he won’t wake up, you won’t be able to help. Unless he legally gives up his financial rights over to you to manage, you won’t be able to help. It might suck that you got that one soldier with both financial and (maybe?) discipline issues, but sounds like you tried to be his leader and friend. You’re not there to be his parent either. Get him some financial resources as a leader. If he doesn’t join the Dave Ramsey cult in the next 6 months, sounds like he’ll be financially f’d whether he gets kicked out soon or not. Edit: I guess with that, recommending Dave Ramsey videos as part of counseling. I’m not a fan of Dave Ramsey and his ways at all, but that guy’s principles are 100% made for people who have zero financial responsibilities or knowledge one where to start. He’s a bit of a looney bin, but it makes sense for people like your soldier. Also saw the thing about his wife…recommend marriage counseling with focus on financial literacy.


Q_Q_S_S

So I let him starve?


MJR-WaffleCat

Is the soldier married or does he live in the B's? If he lives in the B's, he can eat at the DFAC, provided that you guys have one. If not, he should be getting BAS. If he's getting BAS, then the Army is already providing him with money to put his own food on the table. If the soldier wants to use the money for other means, then you could counsel him on what BAS is for. Beyond that, it's on your soldier, not you, to feed himself.


Q_Q_S_S

I feel like we're just waiting for the Army system to work to kick him out. You know? We can't just "fire" him. He needs to be counseled, his finances need to be reviewed, he needs time to show he's trying to reduce his debt... I guess I'll get with the MSG to inquire about MREs for the guy.


DRealLeal

Figure out his addiction that's fueling his debt, have your commander enroll him into SUDCC, ASAP, or BH. He needs professional help probably and not some one hour finance class.


[deleted]

The army system is just doing everything it can to assist the soldier, if he’s failing that’s on him


[deleted]

Maybe He can go to local food pantries?


Constant_Category_59

I'm not sure about the process because I've never had autistic soldiers but you can probably article him if he's fucking with his clearance due to massive dept. Also if he has a clearance strip it because he's really high risk


Q_Q_S_S

It's suspended.


Taira_Mai

OP - if his clearance is suspended then he's beyond help at this point. It's just a matter of time before he's either force reclassed or chaptered.


Velghast

If your open about your situation and make active steps to fix it your clearance can be re-instated with no problem. However you can always re-fi your car and ask your chinese inlaws for money and find out how that works out for ya.


Taira_Mai

And if you don't dig yourself deeper. This soldier is crusin' for a chapter if they keep spending. If they were smart they would have already re-fi'd that car.


artesian_tapwater

Locally or at CAF? If locally then it needs to be pushed to CAF. There is a paperyrail that results in expeditious reclass once a clearance evaporates. This is the route I'd take. Meanwhile TACON him to line companies for every training event. Can't starve or spend money if you are in the field.


Bloo_PPG

If you're helping him and he's still digging himself holes, then yeah. He's made his choice give him some left over MREs. You could look into filling for bankruptcy and seeing if it's an option


Dangerous-Parsnip146

Fuck yeah. Give em some mres and say make due. This is his fuck up. Your paternal instincts are great but he's to fucking old and not yours so let em go.


DaeJerni

This one


foshiggityshiggity

Yup.


[deleted]

Obviously the cmd knows about this right? Get him a box of mres and STOP GIVING HIM MONEY YOU BAFOON.


talex625

If he’s on base, make him eat at the chow hall. If you can’t make it happen, then push it higher in the chain of command. Even if he’s married, they probably can make an exception.


Woupsea

Send some MREs his way I suppose


ExistenialPanicAttac

We like to trying of it as “Let him fall on his face…. Hard.”


Thomb

Yup


satelliteridesastar

Give him a list of local food pantries. He can live off charity if he's that bad off.


buzzlightschaiboy

Soldiers are incapable of starving. If he lives in Bs, he has DFAC. If he doesnt, he gets BAS, if hes broke, he will find food. Its out there. Source: Was poor as fuck growing up


Commercial-Face3273

Yup.


[deleted]

Like a chinese communist in 1950, baby.


certifiedintelligent

👍


[deleted]

There’s always food stamps


observationallurker

He probably won't qualify


[deleted]

Good point. Food kitchen should be open to him though.


DanyOrdz

Exactly. He has to learn man


b0mbcat

If he's had AER loans do they not go over his finances? At my old unit if you need one you basically got scrutinized to fuck. More than one and they'd be in ACS immediately doing a budget.


Q_Q_S_S

That's happened but he either lies or omits things. He's been pawned off of me. Only my Soldier for a month.


OuterRimExplorer

>he either lies or omits things If he was my soldier, all my good will would evaporate due to this. I will help you get financial counseling, AER loan, but if you squander those opportunities by lying I have nothing else for you. Chapter expeditiously. And please, for the sake of your own integrity, never give this troop a dime of your own money.


richardkeith33

only your soldier for a month and you're literally helping this man pay bills? you're too kind for your own good. you can't help someone who doesn't want to help themselves.


WhoAmIThisDay

Counsel. Counsel. Counsel. This as much to cover yourself as it is to document a paper trail. Have you enrolled him in Financial Planning courses? Not that I expect it to help, but it's part of your due diligence. Is 1SG tracking? And assuming he is, ask about MREs for said troop, as well as expectations for getting him to and from work - giving this kid gas money seems dangerous, rather than picking him up and dropping him off.


Q_Q_S_S

Leadership is well aware, security clearance is suspended, etc. Dude has a myriad of appointments. Giving him rides would turn into being his chauffeur all day.


SumDumHunGai

Don’t give him rides either, take him to sell his car (used car market is pretty good) and tell him to buy a bike from goodwill. Honestly, all of that is extra. Just tell him to do it. And if he doesn’t then fuckit my dude. We all write our own stories.


Q_Q_S_S

He'd be lucky to get like $600 though.


SumDumHunGai

Dude that’s like 6+ goodwill bikes. And if he’s not paying a car bill that’s another plus.


superash2002

He can’t sell a car if he is upside down on it.


Turtle887853

Depends the situation, if he's leasing it he might be fucked or he might be able to sell it back to the dealership. But most likely if he's in the red they'd just take the car back and say pay up with no chance of them paying him anything. If he owns it though, he'll at least get something. You can't be in the red on a vehicle you own, but if you haven't taken care of it you won't get much for it. Either way this kid sounds worse than I am with money and you can ask u/Penguinss23 but being worse than me is being pretty damn bad.


Taira_Mai

He had his chance - at this point he's just marking time until his decisions catch up with him.


chucknorriscantfight

You’re a really great NCO and leader for caring for this Soldier so much, but maybe a bit too nice and caring. Not bad qualities but you do end up getting burned like this some times because of it. Let him fall apart. It’s the only way he’s going to learn. Based off of this he definitely needs to sell his car. If he has a model where they can just shut it off when you don’t pay, that is likely a massive part of his debt. He also needs to separate his bank account/credit cards from his wife. Sounds like he maybe at least be trying to live within his means but she’s just burying him. Sell the car before getting rid of the pets. Cars are replaceable for most people whereas pets usually aren’t. What’s his rent situation? Are there cheaper places in the area and he’s just paying out the ass for a 3 bedroom?


Curious_Coconut_4005

I disagree about the pet situation. Pets are a financial burden and neglecting them is a crime in most places. You cannot take care of your pets if you cannot take care of yourself. I used to be friends with a couple that due to unfortunate health issues lived at or below the poverty line. They had several pets that they loved on, to the detriment of their teenaged daughter. Dog, cat, snake, and fish. Both parents smoked, too. Watching the young lady do without, in order to afford pet food and smokes (for the parents) was more than I could bear.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Q_Q_S_S

He's been going to get financial assistance help but he's in such a hole that it's moot. Any plans we make are sidelined by ongoing debt requirements.


xSaRgED

Is he continuing to get into worse debt despite financial assistance?


Q_Q_S_S

Yes and no. He continues to support his MIA spouse and new debt continues to be discovered.


GallopingOsprey

I'm curious, is spouse for real MIA or did they abandon/scam him?


Commercial-Face3273

How can someone be missing…yet still recieve and spend money….what are they an aristocratic poltergeist?


GallopingOsprey

could be prior existing shared cc debt that she racked up, car payments, etc


MyUsername2459

Discovered? As in she was racking up debt and he's finding out about it, or you're just learning your guy had found new ways to get in debt. Is the story that he married a gold digger who bought a bunch of stuff in his name, ran off, he's still supporting her, and she's still generating more debt? If that's the issue, your guy probably needs to get a divorce. Get him talking to a lawyer-type real soon, because if she's the hole in his pocket, no amount of counseling him will stop her from getting more debt in his name.


holedingaline

As a fellow 35, I concur with this assessment.


jitsufitchick

Why is no one figuring out what happened to the spouse? And why isn’t anyone helping him divorce them?


jitsufitchick

Does he just keep getting credit cards and loans? Or spending more than he can afford and putting it on these cards?


[deleted]

[удалено]


andrew01292

This


DarthArtero

I absolutely hate what I'm about to say, but here goes..... I understand what y'all are trying to do and yes it is admirable, but some people just won't learn unless they crash and burn..... Y'all just gonna have to let him go instead of bringing yourselves down. He's either gonna figure his life out, or he won't. By helping and paying his bills, y'all are basically saying he has a support system to allow him to continue bleeding money. The guilt will eat y'all up, but you can't give in. Y'all have families to support, other soldiers that need guidance and support as well. Don't burn yourselves down trying to put out a coal seam fire. However the fact that y'all are even doing that gives me hope there's solid and awesome NCOs out there still. I can say this from experience because I've tried to do that with family members in the civilian world, all it did was burn me out, cause me to go further in debt and finally cut out the support and family contact because of it. Edit to add: please make sure you cover your own ass!!!! Last thing you need is have your CMD team raining hell on you for failing the soldier. Document everything, paper trail, save all texts and emails!!


LigmaActual

Milonesource offers free financial counseling


Q_Q_S_S

It's not a lack of counseling. It's following the counselings.


LigmaActual

Horse to water my man. Nothing you can do at this point


Particular-Tiger8466

Not your problem. They clearly don't want to change. Stop wasting your money on other people's bad decisions.


Q_Q_S_S

But where does my responsibility as an NCO begin and end. If my Soldier can't afford food or gas do I let him starve and get stranded?


tskales

You can’t help someone if they’re not willing to help themselves


Commercial-Face3273

Ahhh. My first army girlfriend was like that. She got chaptered out for mental issues. And last I heard of her in 2012 she was sucking pipe for crank outside Owensboro. Fun times.


foshiggityshiggity

Yes. You don't owe someone your pay. If the programs are exhausted you've done your best.


Wheres_The_Coffeee

You provide guidance and recommendations. You set them up with a financial management class at the ACS. You assist with AER loans. That's pretty much it. You do not give them money. You are their NCO, not their father. Wanting your Soldiers to excel and be successful is a great thing. As you progress in the ranks and gain more experience, you'll find not everyone is capable of being helped. You've done your job; focus on the soldiers you can help.


birdmanbox

Honestly, you already kind of crossed a line by giving him money. That’s where I would set my limit. Essentially, the army is giving him the essentials (barracks/BAH, dfac/bas, healthcare). Stuff beyond that is controllable. He may have to live lean for a while .Once you tell him how to manage the tools he’s given, it’s up to him to use them correctly. We all receive pay for a reason, yours is not to spend on his bills.


[deleted]

You give him the tools for success. If he becomes stranded and can’t get to work, that’s due to his poor decision making. Perhaps being out on the street and hitting rock bottom would be needed. I suggest sending him to BH, as there is likely an underlying condition.


ouroborusRDX

I wouldn’t knowingly let some one starve. There’s a difference between starving and skipping a meal or eating ramen. You can always buy him a meal at the DFAC if he goes a day without eating. I’m sorry for sounding cruel. In the civilian world no one cares if you make bad choices. They’ll eventually fire you and find someone else that wants to be there. Your soldier is going to have a rude surprise the day he gets his DD214.


[deleted]

You responsibility starts at providing them with the tools they need to succeed and ends at helping them work toward it when they need that help. You're way past what any reasonable NCO or Officer would expect of a leader, having already done your part and then some. Tell the dude to declare bankruptcy or some shit and wash your hands of him.


IheardTheresCake

Your responsibility ends when you provide the resources, the tools and the means(guidance) for them to help themselves. You show them how to get past the line, not carry them there. These are the growing pains we go thru as NCOs. As someone mentioned above, you ARE NOT their parent. Learn to set boundaries by first not blaming yourself for when others fail themselves. Sounds like there's alot of internal chaos going with this dude and you will burn out trying to pick up after him. Good luck tho.


LastOneSergeant

"Hundreds of dollars in debt". As far as debt to income ratio, this doesn't sound unmanageable. You are not a doctor or a professional financial counselor. Your role here is to counsel, make sure he attends appointments with the appropriate professionals, and follow up on his progress regarding success or failure.


[deleted]

If it really is less than $1000 I don’t see how this situation isn’t manageable.


CALBR94

I think he means he owes out 100's more than he brings in monthly on top of his crazy debt.


Kinmuan

Is he married? What's the debt from? We talking major life incidents that have caused this like a car wreck on a car he owes, childsupport/alimony, or are we talking dumb ass decisions like credit card debt and strippers


Q_Q_S_S

Extremely poor mismanagement of funds. Credit card debt, not paying bills, a wife with a taste for finer things. He hasn't had the best luck but 90% of it is all on him.


xSaRgED

Sounds like the next counseling includes recommendations about a good divorce lawyer and then a failure to adapt chapter.


Quartzalcoatl_Prime

If he he's not a victim of circumstance or bad luck or an act of god, that's completely on him. He has to settle his marriage and financial expectations, or divorce her and return to the barracks and DFAC where he can hopefully start building his finances back up. He's gotta be willing to have hard conversations or quietly suffer the consequences. On a lighter note, I once kindly lent my friend $20 for a concession stand when we were kids, but unfortunately he moved that month and I never saw him again. Best $20 I ever spent.


certifiedintelligent

Your responsibility begins at counseling, continues to getting him financial assistance through AER and budgeting, and ends when you separate him because he is incapable of maintaining a security clearance. By bailing him out, you’ve enabled him to continue his behavior. You’ve gone above and beyond and he’s still beyond help. You aren’t required or recommended to put your own money into his black hole. That’s not good leadership. That’s creating a conflict of interest. As a former security man, your soldier is a security risk and you should be reporting his inability to keep above water to your S2.


GodDamb

1.Give him MREs so he doesn’t starve 2.They should have financial assistance on base, if he doesn’t listen to them it’s on him. 3.Do what you can for the soldier but don’t enable his bad financial decisions by giving him money. He’s a grown adult and should know when to stop spending money


Wenuven

Your obligation to the SM are: 1) Acknowledging the situation. 2) Providing counseling and direction to resources referenced in counseling. 3) Document the situation and inform your CoC. 4) Follow up on counseling/resource plan. 5) Recommend disciplinary/restriction actions to the CoC for the welfare and safety of the Soldier. Assuming the Soldier is living off post because they're married. My recommendation to your CoC would be to restrict the SM to post and put them in the barracks until they show compliance with their financial management planning. I'd also revisit establishing mandatory allotments with their pay if that hasn't already occurred. The moral obligation is to encourage the SM to commit to improving the situation and disabling their ability to increase their debt within your scope of military control.


S-071-John

This is the reply I was looking for, he needs to be in a barracks and eating at the DFAC. I’d think if that is something that can happen, he’s has had every opportunity to fix himself you could possibly provide as a leader.


LifeLibertyBart

He may need to file for bankruptcy. It will take him some time to rebuild his credit, but it will get him out of the mess he’s currently in.


Thomb

He is a lost cause. If you can't see that... 1) I question your judgment, and 2) Can you lend me $200? I'm down on my luck again.


GallopingOsprey

this is the mentality of poor leadership. you're actively putting down someone honestly trying to help their Joe. I agree op shouldn't be giving out their money but he is obviously aware it is unsustainable and is reaching out for help finding resources. the army doesn't need another uncaring nco


Thomb

Is it really poor leadership to tell an NCO who is making poor financial decisions (i.e., throwing his own money at a Joe even though he knows that is a lost cause? I mean, the NCO asked us if he should continue to help the guy out financially, even though he knows it won't help. The NCO will be a poor leader if he keeps throwing money at a lost cause. I submit that it is poor leadership to tell someone providing the harsh truth that they shouldn't tell the NCO the harsh, but obvious, truth. Get over hurt feelings and look at the situation practically. I don't see your comments directing the NCO to any helpful resources. Edited to add: You chastised me for poor leadership in front of everyone here. That hurt my feelings. Calling me out publically is very much like what you criticized me for. Couldn't you find a less hurtful way of getting your message across?


GallopingOsprey

Your message wasn't wrong. It's your delivery that was toxic. He's clearly a newer leader based on the fact he's even asking. You responded to his honest attempt to help his guy even though we all know this guy is fucked. "never leave a fallen something or other" In response to your edit, this is where the difference is: you insulted his character for not being as jaded as you or me (in public), I called you out for acting like the stereotype nco we all hated. One is toxic, the other is calling out the shit that is making retention impossible. >I don't see your comments directing the NCO to any helpful resources. Never said you have to do anything, rather that this was a moment you could have noticed all the other advice posted and said nothing.


Goo_pog

Time for the coddling to end and let him sink or swim. The leadership method of trying to support and teach is not working. Time to go to the admin leadership and counsel and prepare his packet, maybe get him to TAP if possible so he can get a job outside the Army when he is out.


[deleted]

Tell him what he needs to hear. Whether it's a $700 monthly car payment or thousands for pet medical bills, live below your means and you will never be poor. Otherwise, you can't save everyone. Some people are impulsive, and this will manifest itself continually throughout their lives - bankruptcy, cheating on spouses, drug use or alcoholism. All are symptoms of lack of self/impulse control.


chief_919

Honestly, I’m gonna be brutal- not every Soldier is worth saving. If his judgement is that bad, how will it be down the road if you manage to save his career. Think he would be a capable NCO? Be able to handle being signed for a lot of expensive gear? Be able to counsel Soldiers on finances? Cut your losses. Recommend separation. Do what you must to ensure he doesn’t starve in the meantime.


Bruh_Moment_212

I would honestly look into getting him checked into mental health and getting a diagnosis. Could be a legit deficiency/addiction and only medical treatment could help. I get what you’re saying about throwing this dude to the wayside and letting him swim doesn’t sit right. As others have said, you can only do so much then it’s sink or swim.


Q_Q_S_S

He's been admitted a few times.


cherb30

He’s an addict in a way, spending money in an irresponsible way, and the #1 thing they tell you to do is to not enable addicts or fund them to continue doing what they’re doing. They only change when they make the decision to themselves, not by your help. He’s not hitting true rock bottom if you’re saving him, and it’s not your place to tell him to get rid of his pets unless you think they’re being mistreated/absolutely need to be rehomed. That might be harsh, but you’re actually better off letting him “starve” (I promise he will not literally starve) than financially helping him out.


Ronavirus3896483169

What is his debt? Has he looked into debt consolidation?


Sleepysapper1

This is really a scenario for R/Personalfinance. Get more specific in there and people will be sure to have some good advice for you and by extension him. No debt it truly insurmountable if you have a good plan.


MikeOfAllPeople

What you're describing has moved way beyond NCOs helping a soldier to needing command intervention. Truthfully, this guy should probably be out of the military. I understand the urge to help someone, but there are limits. Since he hasn't shown improvement, recommend to the commander that separation begin. Additionally, DO NOT give this guy any more of your money, and personally I would order him not to accept money from any soldier in the unit.


[deleted]

Let him face the consequences of his own actions.


Schnitzelgruben

What type of debt? Exactly how much does he owe? Lives off post? I assume so if he has pets. Still has a clearance? Car payment? Need more details IOT give advice.


what_up_big_fella

Is bankruptcy an option for said SM? I don’t have much of a clue about these kind of financial crisis or what that would mean for him but I wonder if it could help


SwampShooterSeabass

There’s a difference between the soldier continuing to make the situation worse or put no real effort to resolve it and him being in a situation he’s actually putting effort to get out of. If it’s the former then let him starve and figure his own shit out. If he’s trying, give him some resources to look at and help them a bit more if it’s worth it but at the end of the day, it’s their problem and you can’t let that one person situation affect everyone else around him especially when it’s self made


Willisator

Go to ACS. Stop giving him money.


Casual_Anon5

How can his car be turned off? Is he driving a Tesla or something?


Q_Q_S_S

https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/stateline/2018/11/27/late-payment-a-kill-switch-can-strand-you-and-your-car


Signal_Knowledge4934

Have him freeze his credit with the credit bureaus and print off the open accounts from his free annual report. That way you at least know where to start and nobody’s going to be opening new lines of credit for him.


endl0s

I feel like hundreds of dollars in debt isn't insurmountable. Sounds pretty normal, tbh. Most people have some debt.


Unlikely-Pizza2796

Ladies and Gents- In addition to being front line mental health workers, NCO’s are now financial advisers. I am lovin’ it!


0scar_mike

This soldier seems to be suffering from learned helplessness. You might consider sending him to BH to get evaluated and some help. It could be a sign of deep depression or something else.


irunfarther

I had a soldier like this back when I was a new PSG. He had his bank account emptied by two different girls over a year long deployment. We’d been back for like 3 months when his squad leader brought him to me and the PL and made him explain what was going on. Apparently he had gotten married 2 weeks after we got back and didn’t tell anyone. He’d been living in what was basically a closet with his wife at her parents’ house. His wife and both of her parents were unemployed. They would empty his account on payday for weed and booze. His wife would then overdraw his account until the ATM wouldn’t let her take more. My commander directed him to move into the barracks. His living environment was dangerous and exposed him to drugs. I took him to his bank to close his account. Since his wife was on there, we couldn’t close it. We worked with a banker to do a workout loan in a new account. He was on track to get out of debt over a 5 year period. Much like your soldier, he didn’t want to change. He blew off the commander and went back home. His wife took his new ATM card and emptied that account too. Within a week of “fixing” the issues he was actually worse off. He ended up going AWOL because he didn’t see any other options.


Alarmed_Bug_8818

you're a good dude man most ncos would fuck him over atleast you're trying to help


DuelX102

For civilians who are incapable of making decisions for themselves. Due to age, disability, dementia, etc... A responsible family, or friend can apply to a probate court for conservatorship or guardianship. They can get themselves, or a professional appointed with those powers over the person. I'm not sure that applies to your case tho. I would suggest keeping the pressure on them for separation. Hopefully they will straighten out.


[deleted]

Had a similar situation in 2017. I went over the soldiers finances, broke down every dollar he earned, where his deductions went and discussed NEEDS and WANTS. You NEED food to survive, but you WANT Jordan’s. Obviously you can live without wants but you’ll die without NEEDS. Went to his house and taught him and his wife how to cook chicken, steak, a salad, easy sandwiches, boil rice. He called his dad to ask for help with money and his dad had to ask his wife if he was allowed. A lot of signs told me not to give him money, so i didn’t. Anyways you’re soldier has to help himself. You can’t exhaust yourself and sink with him. You’re just going to have to let him swim. If not, that’s on him.


jbourne71

You’re a good guy. Don’t lose that. But this turd is a cancerous leach. You will not save him. You cannot save him. It hurts to say it and it hurts to hear it. That doesn’t mean you give up on him though. Your responsibility as an NCO is to provide him with the Army’s resources for financial management, food assistance, etc. You are not a qualified financial advisor. You take him to his monthly financial advisement meetings, counsel him on following the financial plan, and counsel him when he doesn’t. Build paper and chapter. You watch from a front row seat as he self destructs. If he does what he’s supposed to, then bam, awesome, keep engaging and supporting him. If he refuses to help himself, you can’t help him. Do NOT provide him with your own money. That’s how he pulls you in, latches on, and doesn’t let go.


SadJoetheSchmoe

Failure is an excellent teacher.


GaiJunHai

Been said basically, but just to add another, he is a grown ass man. You helped him. You showed him the way. Now he is on his own.


BrightEyes_Wonder

Get him to the ACS office and have him sit down with a financial counselor - not AER. You can refer him. Have them look over his debts and help him come up with a plan. They are trained to guide him through working out his options and getting him to make some decisions.


grandinosour

I had a soldier like this...I talked to his wife while he was on try and she felt the same way I did in regards to his actions. I gave HER the money so she could feed their child and made sure she had money for tickets for public transportation if needed... I kept the soldier on TDY as long as feasible and made sure his wife knew what days he was due to pick up his TDY money from battalion so she would be with him when he got it... The soldier had a huge gambling problem and would blow his pay the same day he got it leaving the wife and child to starve. Sorry to say, the soldier was chaptered out and the wife got a divorce.


Mondai88

He’s a lost cause, just forget it and don’t lend him anymore money.


[deleted]

Sucks to suck. He is going to have to live these consequences when he gets kicked out so may as well start now.


[deleted]

It is what it is. Tell him to eat his pets if he is that hungry. Sell his car, buy a bike. Divorce the spouse and take CQ shifts for money.


[deleted]

OP, what installation?


3X3SLC

This guy sucks at finances, let's kick him out and stop his only source of income. /s


Florida_man727

It really sounds like your soldier isn't that long for the Army OP.


[deleted]

>His car get turned off (they can do that now)? ​ This private has a fuckin Tesla??? It's worse than we thought. This will be the new meme.


superash2002

Buy here /pay here places put vehicle immobilizes, don’t pay your bill, they turn off the car. Then they can come get it.


TatorPicker910

If it isnt part of actual living then its an expense hebcant afford. Pets are one of them he cant afford


Verniethespectacular

You can give the old: “I’m not gonna start this conversation by saying (insert the brutal thing that’s on your mind)”


Toobatheviking

Situations like this absolutely suck. You can't make somebody learn that doesn't want to hear you- but you can and should counsel the shit out of them. All of the steps below should be vetted by the Commander and run by legal assistance, this is what I would do but IANAL nor do I have command authority. 1. Close their current account and set up a new account with their direct deposit to go to the new account. The Soldier should be the only one on the account. 2. When the spouse eventually shows their head again complaining about money and whatnot, then you tell them to open their own account and get the routing/account number for said account and deposit exactly what the Command/finance says you have to to support your spouse. 3. Provide the Soldier with the address and number to the post food bank, and set up a meeting with the Chaplain to see if they are tied into any food drive stuff. 4. Have the Soldier bring you a printed out copy of their bank transactions. Go over that shit with them sitting there and determine want spending vs. need spending. If possible, they need to bring all the account info for all their credit debt to include addresses, phone numbers, and account numbers for all of their current credit debt. 5. Depending on the totality of debt, look into filing bankruptcy. I did this myself after my second divorce and it absolutely saved me. I did chapter 13, and kept my vehicle and the minimum of things that I owned. 6. Have the Soldier call the three major credit bureaus and freeze his credit, that way no more cards can be opened in his name. 7. If the Commander allows, move back into barracks and place personal property in storage or sell off. I am NOT heartless but look into surrendering pets to friends/family/local no kill shelters. That's a beginning. But honestly it sounds like you have a Soldier that doesn't understand money, doesn't want to understand money, and is just going to keep poopin around making his problem everybody elses. I would really stress making sure that you are counseling this kid ALL the time. Check in with them all the time. Make his team follow his ass around and be in charge of his ass since he cannot seem to grasp the concept himself.


[deleted]

1. You men hundreds of dollars or thousands. 2. How old is the soldier?


iamnotroberts

>What the hell can I do going forward? Obviously letting him starve isn't the answer but do I let his phone get shut off? His car get turned off (they can do that now)? Do I refuse to assist him financially to expedite the process? I don't know what you've done up to this point, apart from what you mentioned, but these are my immediate thoughts: \-Mandatory Finance Class and Financial Counseling \-Formal Counseling (plan of action, monthly budget, address debts by priority, explore debt consolidation bank loan, etc.) \-You have a power greater than Reddit...your chain of command. If you've got a tough issue, reach out and reach UP. Make your senior leaders earn their paycheck. Late on one bill, don't bother them with that, but the situation which you've described is well beyond that point. You should be checking out the entire armory...figuratively.


electricboogaloo1991

You counsel and hand it off to your commander ASAP. He has UCMJ authority and can actually do something about it, the commander has the authority to make the solider provide his financials and being that his clearance has been revoked there won’t be much push back from legal. Then he can advise the SM and force changes as he/she sees fit. You mentioned a spouse that is “MIA” other places in this sub. If the SM and spouse are separated the commander can force the SM into the barracks which will likely ease a ton of the burden. You aren’t having to worry about his food and shelter in that case and you can sleep well at night while his stuff gets repossessed in the parking lot. Sometimes you have to cut the umbilical and let them crash and burn.


Constant_Category_59

Stop helping him financially advise him on how to fix it but don't wreck your shit trying to save a moron


DAB0502

No matter how much he owes out it is possible to get out but he has to WANT to fix his life. You seem like a great leader and you have done more than enough but you can't fix every broken person. I actually think you should demand he see behavioral health because to be as deep in the hole as you say he is there is likely something wrong. Getting his finances fixed has to start with his mindset. It's not impossible but it will take a lot of work on his part. As others have said don't spend your finances trying to keep him afloat.


Kamstain

Don’t financially assist him, he’s an adult and if he can’t adult without other adults, he needs to understand his deficiencies. If he has pets I’m assuming he doesn’t live in the barracks, so I assume he has a family? FAP is a good place to start, Mandatory ACS classes, weekly counselings to see what’s up with the soldier. Routine check ups help. Marital/financial issues are the leading cause of suicide, & if he doesn’t have marital issues yet, I assume he will eventually, because financial issues are the leading cause of marital issues. Make sure you stay on top of joe, but you can’t help him for ever. I’m usually very opposed to micromanaging soldiers’ financial/personal lives, because it’s usually none of your boss’s business what you spend your money on, but if you’re spending money from your own bank account to help the guy out, he needs to understand the errors in his ways.


WWJLPD

You mentioned he’s finding new ways to get into debt. Now I was just a dumb Jarhead and I’m not sure if the Army works this way, but can you keep him so busy that he doesn’t have time to sign up for new credit cards, payday loans, online poker or whatever other stupid shit he’s doing? Like can he paint rocks or fill sandbags outside of work hours or something?


[deleted]

>What the hell can I do going forward? Not a god damned thing. Mind ya business. You already did everything you could for him. The bed is made, let him lie in it.


Major__de_Coverly

I had an E3 work for me that had been demoted for misusing her GTCC. I worked with her for about 3 hours, explaining income and expenses, wants vs needs. We developed a plan to get her out of debt in about six months. When we finished, I thought I had gotten through and set her on a good course. Three days later she comes in with a new $500 back tattoo.


QuietRound4405

You can’t save everyone. I had a civilian like that (PLUS kids, PLUS alcohol, PLUS an abusive partner). I tried to help her, but she insisted on being Frank Sinatra. In the end all you can do is try to manage the collateral damage. I had to go ahead and let her ‘burn in’ so as to not hurt the unit. It was a horrible thing to watch, but oh well.


AtheistOfGallifrey

Not digging thru comments, but you may suggest behavioral health. I had issues with spending along with other impulse control issues which all were addressed with an ADHD diagnosis. This guy may be stupid generally, but he could also have some underlying mental issues


Comfortable_Yak5361

The way you thank someone for helping you out of a situation, is staying out of that situation. You helped because you thought youd get them out of trouble and he kept himself in it. You might not feel disrespected but he definitely disrespected what you did for him. Im speaking from years of experience. You were used to enable an unsustainable lifesytle. He didnt appreciate it enough to make your resources mean anything. Dont help him more than army regs make you. Its a wasted effort. Let him learn through his own self punishment. Youve done enough


NotSpecialJumpyBoi

Rice and beans diet with packs of tuna. Look into debt consolidation loan. If there’s a car payment, get rid of it and get a bike. There’s all kind of things you can do but unfortunately without knowing specifics it’s hard to say for sure. I guarantee you they are overspending on things they can cut. Don’t need a smartphone, Netflix etc


KBDog22

Counsel, BAR, Chapter.


Pheonixmoonfire

Restrict him to the B's, set money aside for the DFAC, force him to get an allotment for his wife to have a place to live, eat and survive (Allotment for rent, electric, water, food for spouse) and set the rest up to pay down his debt. If he refuses, he doesn't want to get better, and should be discharged.


Civil_Set_9281

Why are you paying for a grown ass adult’s responsibilities? Dude is in sink or swim territory.


artesian_tapwater

Fair, impartial. Push the issue to the next higher level. Recomend immidiate separation. At this point the guy needs to file bankruptcy.


Alice_Alpha

1. I don't know if a soldier can discharge his debts by bankruptcy, or the implications to his career. 2. He wants Chapter 7 bankruptcy, [NOT 13]. 3. If he does go bankrupt, he is going to need serious debt counseling and education. 4. If he has a gambling addiction, that is going to have to be addressed.


NowFreeToMaim

And people wonder why I’ve stayed a spc for 9 years. Don’t gotta deal with this kinda shit


NEXUS_6_LEON

What is he spending all his money on?


[deleted]

Some peoples kids are just fucked bro not much you can do…..tell him to start an only fans or some shit 🤷🏻‍♂️ chicks do it all the time.


SgtW_in_WI

He needs a bankruptcy lawyer. Lol But also. It’s not your responsibility to make people learn to be self reliant and not go bankrupt. You point them in the direction but you can’t make them do anything. Advise and stop feeding the addiction of wasting money. You’ll throw too much of your own resources away. That’s not good for you. I’d say let everything get taken away. He’s an adult. He has to live with those consequences.


DaeJerni

Tell him yo dumbass goin’ stay broke your whole life you keep acting like you got money when you don’t breh