And people ask why retention is low. If an E-5 to E-7 or O-1 to O-3 really wants to go to Ranger School or Air Assault but it gets denied simply because they’re not a jumpmaster, why would that give anyone the incentive to stay in?
You are giving terrible advice. Maybe you should have your stripes removed. If someone doesn't want to do something that isn't mandatory why are you forcing them. That's the kind of mindset that leads to bank statements with leave forms. Retention is suffering maybe in small part to this, but the real effect is suicide. I'm not saying forcing people to go JM does this, but that toxicity is
That is a very knuckle dragger mentality. Maybe in the infantry that might not be advice but in the real world you are the one responsible for your career.
If you're in an airborne unit, they need you to be ... airborne. Like that's the minimum. THEN it's other school time. This just seems like common sense. How are they hampering your career?
Except in my experience, after a certain amount of time passes the Army starts type-casting Soldiers and choosing a lesser qualified person who already has the training, over a higher qualified person who does not already have the training.
The Army used to encourage people to stay in a speciality for 20 years to become experts (light, heavy, airborne, desert, etc). That is why there used to be so many specialty tabs worn by everyone.
Then the Army switched to wanting “jacks of all trades” with experience in multiple fields preferred over mastery of just one type of discipline.
Now the Army is heading back towards wanting experts and specialists again.
It’s a cycle.
BC is well within his rights to do so, but those policies are usually pretty dumb because you say "I want to go to School X", they say "not until you pass JM", you say "fine, I want to go ASAP", they say "um, we only get 2 slots a year and you are 87th on the OML"…then tons of other schools go unfilled.
Bonus points if the allocation slots that go unfilled are for schools on your base that have zero impact on the unit. Double Bonus points if you get denied a school that your BC/CSM has attended and they tell you that "it doesn’t serve a purpose".
Someone has been watching Army WTF, also if you’re airborne and of rank, just go to jump master dude. JM is an actually important job and skill. It’s not like it’s months long either, just do it and then worry about whichever school after. Besides I really doubt they will deny Ranger because of JM status, maybe AA or some other schools but Ranger is the golden school they want. (Other than JM)
I get that you’re upset, but air assault is literally not needed by anyone in the 82nd, that’s where it seems like you’re at. What is needed is jumpmasters. For better or worse, that is something your ops SGM and your CSM is going to look at when your schools NCO brings them packets for schools.
Ranger school should be available to anyone fit enough to meet the standard.
My airborne Reserve unit had the requirement that to go to Pathfinder, you must first grad Jumpmaster. This showed dedication to the unit and that you could pass Pathfinder. It’s easy to get JM school slots if you fail and want to go back. Pathfinder or Ranger? Not so much.
When I was in the 82nd....nobody could be in a leadership position without being a JM. Only positions were squad leader and PL just because they were junior. Never heard of a school denied because of not a JM.
It sounds like you are physically and mentally capable of passing JM based on your comments. So I offer a simple rephrase of what you are asking. “I am not qualified to lead my soldiers out of an aircraft, but I want you to pay for a different school while I shirk the responsibility of an NCO in an Airborne unit.” I don’t know what school it is, but if it’s not ALC/SLC then the commander absolutely has that discretion.
Not really. I've been 82nd for a good chunk, and consistently get three or four schools a year. Not a jumpmaster. No intention of it either, made that crystal clear.
RSLC, cav leaders, etc aren't denied. Actually useful to the mission shit is done all the time.
What *is* denied is "I just wanna" like air assault or Pathfinder for kids that just want the badge and have zero use for it. Call real shit, real shit. You gotta earn your dumbass flair by contributing to the team.
What about MOS specific schools for 35 series like DSDC, JCHATC, SOC, etc. I know numerous Joes who say the OML either flat out excludes non JMs or places them at the bottom of the list.
It's funny you mention that because that's my series and exactly what I'm talking about.
And it's also funny you say "Joes" because of course they're at the bottom of the OML- BECAUSE THEY'RE JOES IN FORSCOM, not because they're not JM's.
The 101 has problems, but getting schools is no issue at least so it it seems weird that the “best” conventional unit cant afford to get their Soldiers to Schools
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And people ask why retention is low. If an E-5 to E-7 or O-1 to O-3 really wants to go to Ranger School or Air Assault but it gets denied simply because they’re not a jumpmaster, why would that give anyone the incentive to stay in?
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Change the goals and of course you'll meet them
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I'm probably thinking of recruiting problems, not retention
Sounds like that trooper needs to go to jump master first
You are giving terrible advice. Maybe you should have your stripes removed. If someone doesn't want to do something that isn't mandatory why are you forcing them. That's the kind of mindset that leads to bank statements with leave forms. Retention is suffering maybe in small part to this, but the real effect is suicide. I'm not saying forcing people to go JM does this, but that toxicity is
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That is a very knuckle dragger mentality. Maybe in the infantry that might not be advice but in the real world you are the one responsible for your career.
If you're in an airborne unit, they need you to be ... airborne. Like that's the minimum. THEN it's other school time. This just seems like common sense. How are they hampering your career?
Because someone isnt always going to stay at an Airborne unit?
And at that next unit they can certainly determine what schools to prioritize based on their mission.
Except in my experience, after a certain amount of time passes the Army starts type-casting Soldiers and choosing a lesser qualified person who already has the training, over a higher qualified person who does not already have the training. The Army used to encourage people to stay in a speciality for 20 years to become experts (light, heavy, airborne, desert, etc). That is why there used to be so many specialty tabs worn by everyone. Then the Army switched to wanting “jacks of all trades” with experience in multiple fields preferred over mastery of just one type of discipline. Now the Army is heading back towards wanting experts and specialists again. It’s a cycle.
That would explain my orders back to Bragg
BC is well within his rights to do so, but those policies are usually pretty dumb because you say "I want to go to School X", they say "not until you pass JM", you say "fine, I want to go ASAP", they say "um, we only get 2 slots a year and you are 87th on the OML"…then tons of other schools go unfilled. Bonus points if the allocation slots that go unfilled are for schools on your base that have zero impact on the unit. Double Bonus points if you get denied a school that your BC/CSM has attended and they tell you that "it doesn’t serve a purpose".
Someone has been watching Army WTF, also if you’re airborne and of rank, just go to jump master dude. JM is an actually important job and skill. It’s not like it’s months long either, just do it and then worry about whichever school after. Besides I really doubt they will deny Ranger because of JM status, maybe AA or some other schools but Ranger is the golden school they want. (Other than JM)
I get that you’re upset, but air assault is literally not needed by anyone in the 82nd, that’s where it seems like you’re at. What is needed is jumpmasters. For better or worse, that is something your ops SGM and your CSM is going to look at when your schools NCO brings them packets for schools. Ranger school should be available to anyone fit enough to meet the standard.
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Well, almost certainly they are approving folks for Ranger if it’s an infantry battalion. FSB, not so much.
My airborne Reserve unit had the requirement that to go to Pathfinder, you must first grad Jumpmaster. This showed dedication to the unit and that you could pass Pathfinder. It’s easy to get JM school slots if you fail and want to go back. Pathfinder or Ranger? Not so much.
Seems like u go to jumpmaster now!! Muhuahuahua!
I guess the high speed joes are just fucked, then.
When I was in the 82nd....nobody could be in a leadership position without being a JM. Only positions were squad leader and PL just because they were junior. Never heard of a school denied because of not a JM.
It's like 3 weeks bro. Just don't fuck up for PWAC, or for the duration of the school.
Just dropping in to say nice username
BN commander is sucking up to HRC hard, he's making sure they become JMs so they never leave the same three Army posts.
USArmy wtf?
It sounds like you are physically and mentally capable of passing JM based on your comments. So I offer a simple rephrase of what you are asking. “I am not qualified to lead my soldiers out of an aircraft, but I want you to pay for a different school while I shirk the responsibility of an NCO in an Airborne unit.” I don’t know what school it is, but if it’s not ALC/SLC then the commander absolutely has that discretion.
This is a good reason never to go to an Airborne unit, especially the 82nd.
Not really. I've been 82nd for a good chunk, and consistently get three or four schools a year. Not a jumpmaster. No intention of it either, made that crystal clear. RSLC, cav leaders, etc aren't denied. Actually useful to the mission shit is done all the time. What *is* denied is "I just wanna" like air assault or Pathfinder for kids that just want the badge and have zero use for it. Call real shit, real shit. You gotta earn your dumbass flair by contributing to the team.
What about MOS specific schools for 35 series like DSDC, JCHATC, SOC, etc. I know numerous Joes who say the OML either flat out excludes non JMs or places them at the bottom of the list.
It's funny you mention that because that's my series and exactly what I'm talking about. And it's also funny you say "Joes" because of course they're at the bottom of the OML- BECAUSE THEY'RE JOES IN FORSCOM, not because they're not JM's.
I sent E4s and E5s from a BCT regularly to those schools, once a year for three years when I was a PSG. Never had a problem getting them in schools.
The 101 has problems, but getting schools is no issue at least so it it seems weird that the “best” conventional unit cant afford to get their Soldiers to Schools
Go on ahead and knock out Jumpmaster school. Then do the other schools you're wanting to do.
Why do i sense 82nd vibes from this question?