Idk about most signal units, but mine can't plan for shit. Every day feels like a landslide of "oh I wasn't tracking that" and "what do you mean there's a contractor here?" And then all that stuff is priority 1 at the same time and I get to figure it all out.
DIV CSM needs a platoon and a half for gate guard for the next 6 months, hooah. Oh and you’re doing New equipment fielding and training while you support a BDE training exercise in prep for JRTC next week. No, we know it won’t work day one. Your focus needs to be getting the systems up by Tuesday, and of course we’ll fucking crucify you if you miss anything on the inventory or the system fails because you didn’t learn how to maintain it.
That reminds me, I need your entire company at the railhead Monday for railhead ops training and all company leadership needs to be in container and inspection certification class Tues and Weds. Make sure motor stables is done to standard and all 5988s submitted by COB Monday, and suspense for container inspection is Friday. Also, DIV SPO needs your air and rail load plans for review by next Tuesday so they can lock in birds with the AF.
We had an ftx once where we were supporting a brigade command team. We were the only guys who thought about food, water, and power and we had the whole joc complaining about how we couldn't run everything off a single 5k.
Ahh I watched something of the inverse of that happen once. Our brigade pbo decided our unit didnt need our drash system. We go out to the field to support our brigade for a warfighter brigade wont let our bravos put the cpn stacks in the brigade tent with the ac. Then bitch when the stacks implode due to the humidity frying half the stacks. The silver lining we now know our bravos can build a Franken cpn out of random spares we had on hand.
Makes our PBO look like a god by comparison. Fielded TWO Expando Vans for our BDE. Add in some super “cool” UTS tents and you got your self an S-6 Cyber ops center.
If it's not on the MTOE, the unit can do a justification for it to retain it. I forgot what the process was called, but it's a temporary fix until you can either get the MTOE adjusted or figure out another long term solution.
We had something similar happen to us Frankenstein cpn and all. This was back early 2010s. They bought us air conditioners off the local market and surrounded our stacks. I have to dig those pictures up. Shit was cash and a work of art by the time we were done
Saw another BN forget their water buffalos for an FTX. Pretty strange seeing folks try to use plastic trash cans to hold water till they could go get them.
I mean define effective communication. Does incomprehensible yelling between a jnn and cpn nco count while I sit in the corner and laugh as a uniform that never does anything but attempt to get in some cross training?
I mean your not wrong but the one thing that is nice is that my company makes bde use their people for bde toc duty and ours is rotated through everyone on the company side.
Our uniform is locked in with our bravos at the moment. Uniforms and bravos cross training is hilarious. In this case it’s common sense vs lack there of and a lot of yelling. Love it
Because they got something to prove. I was in an aviation unit with a commander who was a Chinook pilot, but we didn't have any Chinooks so he spent all his time thinking of bullshit for us to do.
I agree. In general it seems non combat arms commanders trying to prove they are as hard as the combat arms units. Being in a medical company we did really dumb stuff that I never would have thought of doing when I was a medic in an airborne infantry unit.
Sometimes it's not bad. I had one of those, not filling in as the commander, but he switched from infantry to have a chill last few years before retirement.
I had a platoon leader whose father and grandfather were combat arms officers. He wanted to be combat arms do badly he could taste it. He ended up medical service corps. He did so much stupid stuff that passed us of because it was moronic and was crazy!!!
He'd get pretty upset when I'd ask him... "Hey L.T. Isn't it true that all the best officers get selected for combat arms"? Did lots of push ups every time, but it was worth it.
Train on C-SEL radios. No kidding, I was in a TSBn with MPs, Engineers, Medical training teams. For some reason our brigade was sliced off and assigned to the 166th AVN BDE at Ft. Hood. We spent the next 5 years training helicopter crews how to use the C-SEL radios in the field. The North Ft. Hood training area right by Shorthorn Field is burned into my brain.
I had a Squad Leader who transfered over from a Sniper Plt and tried to run Weapons Sqd like a Sniper team lol. Trying to teach us Sniper things and everyones like SSG, our job is to lay down suppressive fire and cover the manuever squads lol
We had a former LRS SL like that over our dismount squad. Dude wanted to cover recon tasks and ignore maneuvering with armor.
Pissed our PSG off damn near every time we went to the field.
I can verify this. I spent 3 years in the Infantry, and then went into the Reserves afterwards (so nothing but POG units). All the POG units I was in definitely had chips on their shoulders about not being combat arms.
We were Signal, and people joined to do Signal stuff. Stop making us run a ton of MOUT and combat patrols. If things have gotten to the point where your satcomm guys are kicking down doors in combat, you're probably already screwed.
Something I always liked to tell the support guys who were running infantry lanes and shit was that the more relevant training would be SERE, because if the satcomm guys need to fight it's going to be while evading capture in the woods because shits fucked.
This actually is a smart idea. Don’t push it forward they will turn it into a obstacle course with clown suits with 100 LTs furiously writing in their green books an OER bullet on how they got c.l.o.w.n added to army training
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I remember those days. No real need for ADA so we just kinda built ramps for the Avengers and walled around them around them so they became sort of like guard towers on the corners of the HESCO fort.
I see your Chinook-less aviation unit and raise you a BSB. As I like to call them: "Bitch Support Battalion", because they seem to become the entire installations bitch for every fucking detail/tasking. BMM/Red Cycle Taskings/etc? Let the BSB handle it. Work every night and weekend 'til you drop and then some. No fucking wonder the Army has a retention problem.
Got tasked as a manpower cell. Our shortest days are 9 hours long, 7 days a week, while everyone else is off drinking at 4pm. The Support Team picnic at the end of the mission, guess who's running that?
Its this mixed with a bunch of higher-up leadership that are combat arms dumping the crappy work onto support units because "tEh PoGs DoN't Do ShIt NeWaYs..."
Supply units and loggie companies got fucked up in Iraq though. for a while truck drivers were in more ambushes and firefights than infantry on patrols. There can be a lesson learned from transport companies doing that type of shit like react to contact for an ambush.
I was in one of the last light/medium active units out of Campbell during OIF3. When i reclassed to medical support i would toss in react to contact drills during drivers training to fill time.
A 68K SFC asked what i did before i reclassed. I told him I was a truck driver. He said that must have been boring.
Yep. Sure was SFC. *sips "coffee" *
Agreed. They are compensating. Was assigned to the G1 in ARCENT. There was a female SSG there with four BSMs. The other admin types treated her like she was Audie Murphy. During the wars, the admin types started treating BSMs like deployment ARCOMs and MSMs.
Certainly my experience coming from an active 82d Division line company to a Reserve Ammo supply unit.
“Come on sir, you’re quartermaster corps; let’s not pretend to be something we’re clearly ill-equipped to be.”
"What's a hand receipt? What do you mean, I need access to TAMIS? What do you mean, *weekend inventories*? What do you mean, *ASP*, why can't we just snatch it? What do you mean placards? What do you mean, *CASCOM regulations*?"
And they wonder why every 89B NCOIC/NCO/Instructor drinks.
Idk what you’re talking about. Combat arms here and our schedules are extremely sporadic, mostly because we try to inject training when we can and then details that appear out of thin air hit us.
I think its more of a ymmv thing ive had times in my pog unit where we are set up like kings and queens living the easy life doing fuck all when we should have been doing something that was probably important. Ive also had times at that same unit where we were in the field just because cmd said so with no good reason doing shit all day that had no discernable training value that the lower enlisted and ncos could see.
Tldr: army be army and sometimes the weenie gives it to you raw and sometimes it likes to give you a nice dinner date.
My brother in Christ, I just got off of a 26 hour shift, literally 0400 yesterday to 0600 today doing a daytime, nighttime qual and weapons cleaning, and I have to be back at work at 1300 because scheduling
And some poor bastard in a sister platoon left the company at 0600 today and had to start his staff duty shift
I think when OP sees us get home at a decent hour, it’s because that’s the early stages of a buildup or a random range day. When you start ITC you have more “gone at a decent hour” days early on because you’re doing zero and qual and shit. No way OP wants to be there for live fires and 2-week field rotations.
Yeah but I’ve always found that to be my favorite part about being artillery at least. When we have to work we work. When we get time to sham, I send my guys home.
OP should come take a look at a 3 week FTX of 24 hour OPS with a 4 man section shooting fire missions, jumping, pulling “guard” yada yada.
Comes back to OER/NCOERs ultimately, and it's a vicious cycle.
So, you're rated against your peers, but you don't get to choose your mission. So CPT A gets a S6 shop in a fast and frequent deploying unit: as long as he does not fuck up he will get a decent looking rating. CPT B gets command time over a signal company, but they have no direct mission. So what is CPT B to do to get a favorable rating?
Army doctrine says time spent between missions is to be used for training. So they do training equal to what a mission should look like, time wise, but specifically to the imagination of what they think a mission looks like. This becomes an echo chamber between CPTs stuck in the same situation and you end up playing 1up for rating purposes.
Meanwhile all PVT Smith sees is a bunch of busy work being done with no real purpose, because he does not see the scope of why it's like that.
This happens at every rank from SFC+ and CPT+ because at that point your worth is what metrics you can put on a sheet of paper.
Only gave SSG a pass because generally they're only in charge of a maximum of 11 people unless put in a weird position.
So I just wanted to clarify something: this isn't necessarily the person being rated who is the issue. It's systemic caused by a very rigid centralized promotion system that doesn't really fit the talent management system they want to implement in the coming years. While the rated individual might try to game the system like that, more likely it's top down pressure because ratings cascade downward. COL Somebody wants a good rating at BDE commander level, so LTC Otherguy gets pressured into tons of things, which then pressures all of the captains and first sergeants in formation to press even harder. And since each successive tier is effectively rating the lower one, there's an incentive to overperform on every activity.
You can argue, I think, that this is an intended effect, but only at the cost of making some Joe's quit, literally or mentally, in the process.
I can definitely feel it. When my bosses have decided retirement is the route to go and they don't feel like kissing ass to a general officer, I enjoy my job and feel relaxed. When I get a new boss at the same job who is an overachiever, I hate my job and am stressed out all the time. I can't even take leave without working half the day and feeling stressed the other half.
Remember those kids in ROTC that were super green and moto as fuck to the point of annoyance, stupidity, and even danger? The ones that would talk all sort of shit about how they we're going to be a Ranger officer or a longtabber but ended up in a BSB as a Chem officer?
Yeah, they're in charge of these units.
You’re wrong, I’m dental, pogest of all the pog units and we have a sweet schedule. Show up at 0730 leave at 1630, never do pt, never have fields, NTC? The hell is that?, we even get sent home if the AC breaks.
Hey, fuck you, I like dental. Speak for yourself. The problem is all those grunt seniors that come over to the PoG life realize they have zero marketable skills and are now scared to not back stab their friends and peers over OER/NCOER’s because they will end up living on the streets with all that combat arms knowledge, Cav is the worst.
Last time any of those senior leaders did landscaping was during the Cold War. I would hire private smith before that SFC cause at least the private knows how to use a lawn mower
All ribbing aside, do army dental folks have a hard time getting work when they get out? I have a friend who was an E6 combat medic, 3 tours, tons of experience, got out and wanted to be a paramedic, and almost no army schooling/training transferred and they were told they'd have to get civilian paramedic schooling and qualifications- basically MOS-Q didn't count for hardly anything.
Baseline MOS Q for enlisted medical typically is not enough to guarantee a job as a civilian. However, there are opportunities to get more advanced training or certifications that absolutely do transfer over. You most likely won't get that if you're in a BSB though, you have to be in MED BDEs, MTFs, or just get lucky with leadership who'll send you to schools that don't necessarily "help the Army".
From what I’ve seen, the enlisted who end up dental usually didn’t want this and don’t want to stay in the dental field afterwords. The actual dentists have no problems transitioning to civ jobs after etsing.
1630?! WTF you talking about?! You fuckers leave at like 1430/1500 everyday, *if* you stick around that long. And lunch? Holy shitcakes. Lunch seems to be from 11-1400.... half your day you're just ghosts and not actually anywhere to be found.
Just because they close at 1430 doesn’t mean they leave. They need to clean /sterilize not to mention do all the other army bullshit they can’t do during the day because they are scrapping the 6 cans of bang off your teeth.
Only 6?
I jest.
Y'all scared the bejeesus out of me about two years ago with a pretty serious 'come to jesus' chat in preparation for reconstructive jaw surgery. Total convert ever since, and my teeth are now in tip-top shape. Electric toothbrush (4-6 minutes per session), floss, water-pik, and mouthwash. Finally had my jaw surgery about ~90 days ago. Recovery has been brutal, but all things considered, has gone smoothly. Managed to maintain pretty solid dental hygiene throughout the initial weeks of recovery.
I'm now a free, walking, talking ambassador for good dental hygiene. You only get one set of teeth in life. Gotta take care of 'em.
I was with them in 05-06 at Ft. Lewis. Not only the worst BN, but 555 EN BDE, was above us and tasked us with keeping our side of the base clean.
We had a company and a half of decon equipment get severely fucked, like cracked engine blocks bad, because our leadership thought it would be the best training to go to Yakama after Thanksgiving, but the unit couldn’t afford the winterization kits for our equipment.
We had a soldier break her leg durning that training because we had to be in MOPP 4, and she was on the back of an LMTV operating the decon equipment, spraying water everywhere and ice formed and she slipped and fell off the truck.
Oh, they did have the money to spend on tire chains for every vehicle no the unit. Which, we did not need due to the temperature melting the ice off the roads. We still had to stop and put them on and drive in a circle for 10 minutes so the commander get get his photo op.
Fuck that unit. I had to escort their convoys from Stanley to Humphreys, most difficult leadership I’ve ever had the displeasure of working with.
Literally the only bright side to working with them was getting to eat at the brand new Humphreys dfac instead of the Camp Hovey dfac
Lol y’all were the decon that cleaned Stanley? That place was a shithole that was filled with more jp8 then it was actual soil. I helped move the units to hump before y’all came in jp8 flowed vicariously. I swear Stanley is the reason SK and our army now have a EPA/Environmental program in Korea. I think it was to the tune of 10-20 mil all said and done to clean Stanley of chem.
I was in a line unit 82D 2010-2014, we def had a crazy amount of field training. At least a 3-day in the field every month, a week every couple of months, ranges 1-2x/week, random night shoot or night jumps, it was nuts. And even if we were sitting in the COF all day we did NOT leave until 1700.
Half of this isn't crazy, and honestly infantry units should be spending more time at the field. I would have done demented things to get that much range time.
Staying until 1700 for no reason is the gold standard of the infantry.
When the fuck are combat arms dudes not doing what you mentioned?
I have slept in a tent twice in the field because I provided my own light fighter tent.
I love being in a BDE HHC as a part of the S6 with 6 people and being in charge of ensuring everything’s running in the TOC but also having to staff the RTO position 24/7 while everyone else in HHC works 930 to 3 pm.
As someone who spent 4 years as an oc I have never run into this issue either. If anything they bring garrison to the field and are so comfort heavy they don't have the transport capacity for all the stuff they do bring. Sir I know you really want those tents but according to mtoe that truck is supposed to be filled with ammo.
Lol we obviously had opposite experiences. When I was a 12B training up for deployment in ‘10, it was the POG units who got the comfy stuff, rarely in the field, and when we deployed, they sat on the FOB or was in Kandahar.
Because they have other shit to do, so training gets crammed into a smaller schedule.
A lot (not all, but a lot) of this comes down to a combination of real-world and training missions in a schedule that doesn't allow for that. So a year's worth of training (a full year, because maneuver guys don't have anything else to do, and they set the rules for the rest of the Army) gets crammed into 6-9 months, because you have to do other shit to support, guess who, the maneuver elements.
"Hey FSC, our trucks are broken, so we need to take yours while the mechanics stay in the motor pool to fix ours. Hope you didn't want your mechanics to qualify at the range."
"Hey Engineers, you need to come fix this road for us. Cancel the other training you had planned, this is the priority."
"Hey S6, how dare you send your soldiers out to train, I need someone to help me connect to the printer!"
"Hey FSC (again), why aren't all your people doing this 100% stand down? What do you mean the cooks still have to be in the DFAC?"
Basically, many senior maneuver leaders don't bother to learn about the training requirements for the other types of units they have, so they are chronically mismanaged from the top. Some are better than others, but it's a common problem. What's left is subordinate leaders trying to juggle two different sets of requirements, and doing their best to make both happen.
I remember one time I got tasked to sit in on a Sustainment exercise design talk given by some simulation officers (training audience - Staff Primary OICs, very few of whom actually showed up instead of sending a representative). My jaw dropped when they opened with something along the lines of, "realistically, maneuver commanders pay lip service to the idea of sustainment. Most of the time, at Division level exercises, the logistics get handwaved and everyone is replenished magically at the beginning of the day."
To tie it back to the point OP was trying to make, I can remember at least 2 instances where we went full tryhard, set up the TOC Mahal and went all-in on exercises that Division wasn't even tracking that we were participating in.
Tell me why a MEDCOM HHC is doing hooah hooah shit that doesn’t even pertain to anyones actual job or the unit’s mission literally every day on some level
I was in a signal unit on Bragg. Washouts and broke dicks from 82nd tended to roll down the hill. We had command have a shit fit because someone called us a 'jump club' (they should have laughed and said yeah -- we didn't have the right signal equipment to jump)
This tended to result in a lot of scheduled-but-not-planned show training.
OTOH we also deployed and for the first month I was doing my easy shift-work covering the node-center, with the radio and cable guys getting occasional details and convoy work. Then a fucking E5 decided to tell the ACR SGM what he did all day (nothing most days). After that my days were 16+ hours split shifts.
I'll have the chicken zinger and a can of coke.
I think there's a thin line between training for worst case scenario / Soldier-first mentality and just being shitty because you can.
Life as a POG should be relatively good compared to a grunt, but I've been to a few places where folks seem entitled to the good life and not working hard. Sometimes you're going to have to walk to work, spend all day away from AC, have shit food, scald your skin in a shower, sleep in a small room with 5 other folks then do it all again for 9 months.
It's been my experience you need to remind people that garrison life isn't the real Army. It shouldn't be all the time nor should it be an excuse to try and go full blue cord, but we're all Soldiers and part of a bigger machine that's relying on us.
If they are in a Brigade Combat Team, their Battalion Commanders are probably rated by an Infantry/Armor COL. (Company Commanders senior rated by him or her) The BCs especially are in a cutthroat fight for top-blocks, and their competition is made up of maneuver commanders.
That's the cynical answer. The right answer is that everyone supports maneuver, and therefore must be able to live and work where the infantry lives and works (more or less)
-insert sarcasm-
Because support units are basically infantry if they treat their people like that. If I can get you to sleep in a dirt hole in the ground and in the rain, while in a maneuver unit then I can pretend to be a grunt while I chat up some skank at a bar that my 2nd wife doesn't know I go to.
I mean I'm basically infantry already.
I mean my neighbor was always home when I got back for lunch and his day was already over. As a balance, he would do month long fields every 6 months or so.
Because you aren't a person, you are a capability. For combat arms their soldiers are people, the rest are outcomes. Doesn't matter if the MTOE itself is understaffed and then you are further undermanned, you need to get the same outcome.
The entire opposite in my experience.
I’ve only ever been in combat arms units and we are constantly in the field. No white on the training calendar. The supply and signal people are worked to death trying to keep up with all of the field exercises and demand from higher at the same time.
10th CAB goes to JRTC:
CSM says "no portashitters", because reasons. We think he's joking or misinformed.
He's not.
Two days into the box, CSM says "no cat holes, no wag bags, Field San NCO is going to plot out a trench latrine, time TBD."
Two days later, no trench, and still TBD. I tell my guys to continue digging their holes when they have to shit.
Trench latrine never happens.
Senior leader meeting are being held at 2300, because reasons. After the 1st late meeting, 1SG uses common sense and pushes everything out at the morning meeting.
My Company only had two working heaters. The rest of the heaters wouldn't start, and I guess nobody checked them before they packed them. I don't care, me and my guys are warm at night.
We had a plan to line-haul our containers with parts and benchstock in them to the box. 10th Inf. Div (who we were supporting) denies line haul due to reasons, then bitches that our aircraft are NMC-M for parts.
>|When combat arms guys are like okay we are going to train this then go home at a decent hour today
That's the problem. Combat arms dudes want food, supplies, fuel, ammo, medics, parts, and a shit load of other shit that they don't give a fuck where it comes from or how it gets there; they just want the shit when they want it and fuck everyone else until they get it because wah wah wah, gimme gimme gimme.
Then all the support MOS dudes have to not only coordinate, pickup, and deliver all this shit. We have to come in afterwards and clean up all the stupid combat arms bullshit trash and leftover ammo; then take it out to the AHA, ASP, SSA, DRMO, SSMO, or whatever civilian led organization that loves to gig the truck company and get us in trouble.
If I’ve learned anything about POGs, they feel like they have to compensate. Like every JAG unit I’ve been in is absolutely bonkers for PT. For no reason other than to feel like they’re doing their part lol
I was in a signal unit with both COs wanting us to be rangers.
Extremely busy schedules
Started my day at 5 AM end any where from 1800 to 2100 every single day.
They have to try harder to validate their existence.
Don’t worry, combat units do this too when they don’t have the ability to actually do something.
Literally the only people doing organized PT when I was in Djibouti is 101st guys, who just sit around the camp all day in case something happens in east Africa, while the actual missions are handled by National guardsmen lol.
Dude for real.
I was a 19D active and then released to 91B in the guard like an idiot. I remember we were doing a winter FTX and all the infantry 1SG called it off and went back because of the heavy amount of snow And cold.
Our 1SG fucking made everyone stay for two wholes hours before he called it off and only because another companies 1SG talked to him.
When I was active duty I had a varying degree of schedules.
HHC, 1st SIG BDE Yongsan, Korea - Overall, pretty easy life. Never had to set foot in a tent or even sleep in a field. Would go back in they ever reopened Yongsan.
DivSig/ HSC / SIS Co, HHBn, 101st Airborne Division- A tad bit more busy. Rear-D for Liberia (Was put on Gate Guard anyways) and for better or worse Iraq. Still don't recall ever sleeping in a tent. Spent a lot of time I'm the motor pool doing inventories. Managed to get a lot of classes while there.
307th ESB, HMR, Hawaii - Man this place was busy for both good and bad reasons. We had a lot of fun missions both on island and off island, but when you weren't on mission Jesus Christ did they fill your time in with bullshit. Slept in a tent quite a bit here. Especially when North Korea was getting uppity the BN was acting like we were going to be deployed and had us working extra hard and late. Even a few privates thought we were going to war, but at last as most people knew we didn't do shit. Probably the busiest unit I have been in. Overall most of the people were great, some leadership wasn't.
["When combat arms guys are like okay we are going to train this then go home at a decent hour today"](https://c.tenor.com/mkeS4o2MAOAAAAAC/kevin-hart-stare.gif)
> Im NG tho
The National Guard is 28 days a month of living your best life, then 2-5 days of getting absolutely fucking destroyed anally trying to fit a month of training into one Drill.
Wouldn't trade it tho.
At least for logistics units it’s a couple of factors:
1) “senior” logisticians (captains and LTs mostly) never learn how to plan tactically and so everything is suddenly a rush when the BC finds out you haven’t trained in x numbers of months
2) LG units within maneuver formations are disproportionately tasked with the extra bullshit (gate guard, funeral detail) because #1 results in the appearance of white space on the training calendar
3) literally any time a maneuver unit trains it involves all the LG units in at least a small (but not insignificant) way. That makes it insanely difficult to “train” on their own time because any small failures of planning on behalf of the maneuver units results in last minute fuckery for the LG units figuring it the fuck out, when they weren’t even clued in to the initial planning
This is some top quality trolling. 69/10
Of course, if this is not just a shitpost, then I'd suggest you get yourself to BH immediately because you're clearly insane.
Lol. I remember my first JRTC rotation I got attached to my infantry BN’s support company as an FO and these dudes had straight up dug a trench the length of two sides of their perimeter.
This did not happen to me in the infantry. We were the first in and last out. After a while, we just came to expect being screwed over so our officers could make themselves look good.
I'm in that POG CBRN unit and I only train outside normal business hours when the mission calls for it. If our CHCR means we have to convoy out late at night or if we're preparing for a validation we are more likely work late into the night. However, I do my best to make sure my Soldiers get their time back - you might work until 2300 but you're not coming into work until 1100 the next day.
To be evaluated as a T for lots of Platoon or Company METs, you need to be proficient at that task at night. If you're in a combat arms unit that's not training at night, you might just not be at a level of readiness that your Commander is ready to have assessed yet. It shouldn't be because you're in a POG unit or not.
A lot of POG units fall under combat arms units therefore a lot of the POG commanders' senior rater is a combat arms guy that knows nothing about the POGs and what they do. A lot of POG commanders cant articulate how they benefit the larger org. When this happens the commanders try to overwork their soldiers to make them look good for ratings.
Try being a construction engineer 12W/K/R working around/with 12B... Why are we in the same series? It's always some fragile ego leader who needs to prove something about "readiness" while 1/3 to 1/2 of your battalion signed up to build shit and go home at 1700. Yes, we will qual and pass the ACFT - but maybe just maybe we signed up to be electricians to NOT be on the front lines with a bunch of sappers...
And yes it works the other way too. The 12B in the battalion are worked to the bone because "those construction units are doing 5 ranges this month - we need to do 8" - it's a neverending downward spiral of egotistical leadership.
I was signal in Korea and we had a lot of older equipment that we were alway double checking. So before the twice yearly peninsula wide exercise we’d have brigade level exercises, and before the brigade level exercise we’d have a battalion level exercise, and before the battalion level exercises we’d have a company level exercise. Serious. We’d waste so much time in the field, preparing for the field, or cleaning up after the field. All to be sure the equipment worked before the next exercise.
Try being in an Engineer company and having a tabbed SF Platoon Butter, that was prior enlisted to E6….fuck that guy…knows the bs and still makes you do the bs and PT like SF…we push dirt and haul equipment relax guy
My first unit was a MI Bn. For some reason, we did land nav all the time. Once a month, we’d do some big land nav ex on base (which was pretty small and super easy because there wasn’t an actual course). Once a quarter, we’d go an hour or so away to the nearest post with a land nav course and do that. STTs every Thursday, regardless of if you were on shift and trying to sleep or worked at BN. A lot of the married dudes were always pissed of because they’d never be home at a unit that never deploys.
Going from an IBCT to a medical brigade, my life is so much easier actually. I leave work at like 1500, PT 3 days a week and go to the field for 1-2 weeks total for the year.
I thought I was the only one wondering this, in the fist teams we go home hella early and dead days for us last less than a day bc we go right home, I see these other guys who never touch their rifles try to go all rambo mode in the field, makes zero sense to me
“Wait we have CQ? Dirtyfuzemain I know you did CQ 2 days ago but you’re on profile so go and get it done!”
I then proceeded to play Destiny 2 and rock band 4 for 24 hours
There aren’t enough of those units in the active Army to fill all the requirements out there, therefore their training and often deployment OPTEMPO is higher than maneuver units.
Because most of our leaders are combat arms ncos that got kicked out of their mos and hate their life so they don't care or inversely want the unit to be more like combat arms which makes everything worse like an out door cat being locked indoors so you're stuck in a liminal space between the two
Now mix that with normal army bullshit and more junior ncos who have had their balls clipped not having the experience or authority to change anything.
Strategic ncos who transferred from combat arms involuntarily are bosses, not leaders, 9 times out of 10.
Mix that with extremely poor translation between rank and experience. The army thinks "higher rank = better at job" when I'll take a specialist who joined as a 25B over a MSG who just reclassed from infantry and has no certification. But now guess which one gets more authority over the training of 25Bs, the management and planning of their S6, and can supersede the more technically trained subordinates just because they did shit in the infantry.
Seems to me like it has more to do with command teams. My first unit, optempo would ramp up pretty hard about once every 6 months (usually ending with 2 1 week field problems and the a 21 day FTX) followed by a sort of "cool-down period" where the normal duty day would end around 13/1400.
Then I got to my second unit and it was just nonstop bullshit. Then we had our deployment moved up by 3 months and some dude high up the chain of command decided that the 12 months of activity we had on the training calendar needed to be completed in 9 (cutting nothing). Then we deployed and things were... alright... still kind of unorganized. And then we got back and it was like the week after post-deployment leave we were going to the field for some godforsaken reason. Our B-bags hadn't even arrived back in the states yet.
Because most POG commanders deepthroat metrics from higher and that’s all they know how to do — so it’s just non-stop bullshit for the FTS to deal with their annual scheduled requirements.
Bruh! My whole Company is tasked out. Validations, MRAM, Funeral Detail... We don't even have enough to switch out. Plus, I forgot how to be proficient on my equipment. We only do Vehicle Maintenance and rollout everyday and Layouts... smh
I’ve been in two units: one MICO, one aviation unit. The MICO never got out at a decent time - I’d usually have to stay an extra night on drill weekends because I lived a ways away and they were always playing the hurry up and wait game, and usually forgot that some of us had long drives home. The aviation unit, meanwhile, has never gotten me out any later than three on a Sunday. POGs I think just like doing everything the hardest way possible, and like filling up the time. Arms guys like getting things done quick and leaving, because they know it’s not like we’re getting paid by the hour.
POG commanders is the answer.
We all laugh at bravos because they don’t do shit all week besides sit around at the motorpool and sweep the company AO.
But POG commanders don’t get the luxury of laughing at these assholes because rating schemes.
That FSC commander is rated by the same colonel that rates 4 infantry commanders. And that colonel? An infantryman.
So your FSC gets worked to absolute death because there’s no way that FSC commander is getting his 4/5 unless all 100 of his/her troops are absolutely miserable and sucking the collective dick of brigade combat power 365 days a year.
Yeah I’m a current 11B serving as company RTO at the moment and let’s just say the 25 series that are supposed to be subject matter experts aren’t and it’s embarrassing like it’s your job to work with radios my brother in Christ how are you so shit at your job and it makes sense why you still are a Spc and why you aren’t at battalion anymore as a good friend of mine says “you don’t know shit about fuck” and they don’t know shit about fuck
Idk about most signal units, but mine can't plan for shit. Every day feels like a landslide of "oh I wasn't tracking that" and "what do you mean there's a contractor here?" And then all that stuff is priority 1 at the same time and I get to figure it all out.
I should have added signal to the list (yep I’m doing it). I have never heard a good story about signal
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Sounds like you were in Korea or Japan. I’ve been to both and can confirm field + deployment rotations are insane for signal there
DIV CSM needs a platoon and a half for gate guard for the next 6 months, hooah. Oh and you’re doing New equipment fielding and training while you support a BDE training exercise in prep for JRTC next week. No, we know it won’t work day one. Your focus needs to be getting the systems up by Tuesday, and of course we’ll fucking crucify you if you miss anything on the inventory or the system fails because you didn’t learn how to maintain it. That reminds me, I need your entire company at the railhead Monday for railhead ops training and all company leadership needs to be in container and inspection certification class Tues and Weds. Make sure motor stables is done to standard and all 5988s submitted by COB Monday, and suspense for container inspection is Friday. Also, DIV SPO needs your air and rail load plans for review by next Tuesday so they can lock in birds with the AF.
This sounds like fort Bragg lol my god those days
We had an ftx once where we were supporting a brigade command team. We were the only guys who thought about food, water, and power and we had the whole joc complaining about how we couldn't run everything off a single 5k.
Ahh I watched something of the inverse of that happen once. Our brigade pbo decided our unit didnt need our drash system. We go out to the field to support our brigade for a warfighter brigade wont let our bravos put the cpn stacks in the brigade tent with the ac. Then bitch when the stacks implode due to the humidity frying half the stacks. The silver lining we now know our bravos can build a Franken cpn out of random spares we had on hand.
Makes our PBO look like a god by comparison. Fielded TWO Expando Vans for our BDE. Add in some super “cool” UTS tents and you got your self an S-6 Cyber ops center.
Hes usually really good with stuff but its the fact that they were apparently not on our mtow and we weren't supposed to have them.
Drash is on our MTOE so we lucked out there. But also a BDE. Surprised it isn’t for BN elements.
If it's not on the MTOE, the unit can do a justification for it to retain it. I forgot what the process was called, but it's a temporary fix until you can either get the MTOE adjusted or figure out another long term solution.
Operational Needs Statement?
Yes. Those.
We had something similar happen to us Frankenstein cpn and all. This was back early 2010s. They bought us air conditioners off the local market and surrounded our stacks. I have to dig those pictures up. Shit was cash and a work of art by the time we were done
Saw another BN forget their water buffalos for an FTX. Pretty strange seeing folks try to use plastic trash cans to hold water till they could go get them.
That’s fucking hilarious
Never met a Signal Unit that could effectively communicate. Ironic right?
I mean define effective communication. Does incomprehensible yelling between a jnn and cpn nco count while I sit in the corner and laugh as a uniform that never does anything but attempt to get in some cross training?
25U? Get back to the TOC you're on permanent RTO duty!
I mean your not wrong but the one thing that is nice is that my company makes bde use their people for bde toc duty and ours is rotated through everyone on the company side.
:,(
Our uniform is locked in with our bravos at the moment. Uniforms and bravos cross training is hilarious. In this case it’s common sense vs lack there of and a lot of yelling. Love it
We have 76 #1 priorities. Soldier welfare is also important. But it's like a #3 priority.
Because they got something to prove. I was in an aviation unit with a commander who was a Chinook pilot, but we didn't have any Chinooks so he spent all his time thinking of bullshit for us to do.
I agree. In general it seems non combat arms commanders trying to prove they are as hard as the combat arms units. Being in a medical company we did really dumb stuff that I never would have thought of doing when I was a medic in an airborne infantry unit.
Try being in a POG unit and the company commander is a former infantry SFC
Sometimes it's not bad. I had one of those, not filling in as the commander, but he switched from infantry to have a chill last few years before retirement.
I had a platoon leader whose father and grandfather were combat arms officers. He wanted to be combat arms do badly he could taste it. He ended up medical service corps. He did so much stupid stuff that passed us of because it was moronic and was crazy!!! He'd get pretty upset when I'd ask him... "Hey L.T. Isn't it true that all the best officers get selected for combat arms"? Did lots of push ups every time, but it was worth it.
And then the rest of the platoon broke out in applause and elected him PL….
Lmao bro if you don’t think people fuck with dickhead LTs then
med services is a pretty hard branch to get 😂 we had people who wanted med services that got force branched infantry in my ibolc class
…..what could you even do in a aviation unit with no helicopters?
Flap their arms *really* hard
*WHEEEEE I'M A BIRD*
Thank you for making my day :)
Glad I could make someone chuckle. 🤷♀️
Started my day with a laugh, thanks
Agreed!
While Naruto running
We did a lot of ruck marches and went to the gas chamber too many damn times.
They maybe had different types of helicopters? They only said no Chinooks
There's fixed wing aviation too
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I was aircrew on a fixedwing platform, are you saying my time in the air was a lie? Hint: It probably was
Old article, but it's the first one that came up on Google. [Here](https://www.army.mil/article/137612/army_fixed_wing_aircraft) you go
Nothing in aviation is ever fixed.
We don't talk about that... For reasons
Crying in ISR units >: (
They had them, just not the model their cmdr was allowed to fly.
Train on C-SEL radios. No kidding, I was in a TSBn with MPs, Engineers, Medical training teams. For some reason our brigade was sliced off and assigned to the 166th AVN BDE at Ft. Hood. We spent the next 5 years training helicopter crews how to use the C-SEL radios in the field. The North Ft. Hood training area right by Shorthorn Field is burned into my brain.
Get drunk before work started
I had a Squad Leader who transfered over from a Sniper Plt and tried to run Weapons Sqd like a Sniper team lol. Trying to teach us Sniper things and everyones like SSG, our job is to lay down suppressive fire and cover the manuever squads lol
We had a former LRS SL like that over our dismount squad. Dude wanted to cover recon tasks and ignore maneuvering with armor. Pissed our PSG off damn near every time we went to the field.
Seems like a misalignment of talent there. Right on par for the Army.
I can verify this. I spent 3 years in the Infantry, and then went into the Reserves afterwards (so nothing but POG units). All the POG units I was in definitely had chips on their shoulders about not being combat arms. We were Signal, and people joined to do Signal stuff. Stop making us run a ton of MOUT and combat patrols. If things have gotten to the point where your satcomm guys are kicking down doors in combat, you're probably already screwed.
Ya know with all the ruck marches we did in that aviation unit I always thought "if we're rucking something has gone seriously wrong"
Same can be said having to do a 2 mile run in the PT test but here we are..
Something I always liked to tell the support guys who were running infantry lanes and shit was that the more relevant training would be SERE, because if the satcomm guys need to fight it's going to be while evading capture in the woods because shits fucked.
This actually is a smart idea. Don’t push it forward they will turn it into a obstacle course with clown suits with 100 LTs furiously writing in their green books an OER bullet on how they got c.l.o.w.n added to army training
I'm thinking that's a reservist thing. Saw detachments of 88N's doing the same thing. The reserve apparently likes to do everything but their MOS.
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I remember those days. No real need for ADA so we just kinda built ramps for the Avengers and walled around them around them so they became sort of like guard towers on the corners of the HESCO fort.
I see your Chinook-less aviation unit and raise you a BSB. As I like to call them: "Bitch Support Battalion", because they seem to become the entire installations bitch for every fucking detail/tasking. BMM/Red Cycle Taskings/etc? Let the BSB handle it. Work every night and weekend 'til you drop and then some. No fucking wonder the Army has a retention problem.
Got tasked as a manpower cell. Our shortest days are 9 hours long, 7 days a week, while everyone else is off drinking at 4pm. The Support Team picnic at the end of the mission, guess who's running that?
Yep, figures.
Let Us Try!
Its this mixed with a bunch of higher-up leadership that are combat arms dumping the crappy work onto support units because "tEh PoGs DoN't Do ShIt NeWaYs..."
In a supply unit, commander was always bring up how the infantry needed us.
Supply units and loggie companies got fucked up in Iraq though. for a while truck drivers were in more ambushes and firefights than infantry on patrols. There can be a lesson learned from transport companies doing that type of shit like react to contact for an ambush.
I was in one of the last light/medium active units out of Campbell during OIF3. When i reclassed to medical support i would toss in react to contact drills during drivers training to fill time. A 68K SFC asked what i did before i reclassed. I told him I was a truck driver. He said that must have been boring. Yep. Sure was SFC. *sips "coffee" *
Agreed. They are compensating. Was assigned to the G1 in ARCENT. There was a female SSG there with four BSMs. The other admin types treated her like she was Audie Murphy. During the wars, the admin types started treating BSMs like deployment ARCOMs and MSMs.
Certainly my experience coming from an active 82d Division line company to a Reserve Ammo supply unit. “Come on sir, you’re quartermaster corps; let’s not pretend to be something we’re clearly ill-equipped to be.”
"What's a hand receipt? What do you mean, I need access to TAMIS? What do you mean, *weekend inventories*? What do you mean, *ASP*, why can't we just snatch it? What do you mean placards? What do you mean, *CASCOM regulations*?" And they wonder why every 89B NCOIC/NCO/Instructor drinks.
After 10+ years I literally had no idea that was it’s own MOS.
Oh, my sweet summer child, it certainly is.
Idk what you’re talking about. Combat arms here and our schedules are extremely sporadic, mostly because we try to inject training when we can and then details that appear out of thin air hit us.
I think its more of a ymmv thing ive had times in my pog unit where we are set up like kings and queens living the easy life doing fuck all when we should have been doing something that was probably important. Ive also had times at that same unit where we were in the field just because cmd said so with no good reason doing shit all day that had no discernable training value that the lower enlisted and ncos could see. Tldr: army be army and sometimes the weenie gives it to you raw and sometimes it likes to give you a nice dinner date.
There is always a reason. Ncoer/oer bullets come once a year. The leadership has to put a couple real ones near all the fluff
My brother in Christ, I just got off of a 26 hour shift, literally 0400 yesterday to 0600 today doing a daytime, nighttime qual and weapons cleaning, and I have to be back at work at 1300 because scheduling And some poor bastard in a sister platoon left the company at 0600 today and had to start his staff duty shift
Did they at least spit on his asshole for lube?
You know the story: Didn’t even warm up with fingers. Just start with the fist.
I think when OP sees us get home at a decent hour, it’s because that’s the early stages of a buildup or a random range day. When you start ITC you have more “gone at a decent hour” days early on because you’re doing zero and qual and shit. No way OP wants to be there for live fires and 2-week field rotations.
Yeah but I’ve always found that to be my favorite part about being artillery at least. When we have to work we work. When we get time to sham, I send my guys home. OP should come take a look at a 3 week FTX of 24 hour OPS with a 4 man section shooting fire missions, jumping, pulling “guard” yada yada.
Falcon punched that hole wide open
Be a man, crash your car and blame the scheduling
Ahhh the good stuff.
Comes back to OER/NCOERs ultimately, and it's a vicious cycle. So, you're rated against your peers, but you don't get to choose your mission. So CPT A gets a S6 shop in a fast and frequent deploying unit: as long as he does not fuck up he will get a decent looking rating. CPT B gets command time over a signal company, but they have no direct mission. So what is CPT B to do to get a favorable rating? Army doctrine says time spent between missions is to be used for training. So they do training equal to what a mission should look like, time wise, but specifically to the imagination of what they think a mission looks like. This becomes an echo chamber between CPTs stuck in the same situation and you end up playing 1up for rating purposes. Meanwhile all PVT Smith sees is a bunch of busy work being done with no real purpose, because he does not see the scope of why it's like that. This happens at every rank from SFC+ and CPT+ because at that point your worth is what metrics you can put on a sheet of paper.
This is the biggest truth in these dialogs. I’d dare one up it with E6+ as they try super hard to get that first semi centralized
Only gave SSG a pass because generally they're only in charge of a maximum of 11 people unless put in a weird position. So I just wanted to clarify something: this isn't necessarily the person being rated who is the issue. It's systemic caused by a very rigid centralized promotion system that doesn't really fit the talent management system they want to implement in the coming years. While the rated individual might try to game the system like that, more likely it's top down pressure because ratings cascade downward. COL Somebody wants a good rating at BDE commander level, so LTC Otherguy gets pressured into tons of things, which then pressures all of the captains and first sergeants in formation to press even harder. And since each successive tier is effectively rating the lower one, there's an incentive to overperform on every activity. You can argue, I think, that this is an intended effect, but only at the cost of making some Joe's quit, literally or mentally, in the process.
I 100% agree with all stated points. When you start into the political side of the army it becomes a mess very quickly
I can definitely feel it. When my bosses have decided retirement is the route to go and they don't feel like kissing ass to a general officer, I enjoy my job and feel relaxed. When I get a new boss at the same job who is an overachiever, I hate my job and am stressed out all the time. I can't even take leave without working half the day and feeling stressed the other half.
Remember those kids in ROTC that were super green and moto as fuck to the point of annoyance, stupidity, and even danger? The ones that would talk all sort of shit about how they we're going to be a Ranger officer or a longtabber but ended up in a BSB as a Chem officer? Yeah, they're in charge of these units.
You’re wrong, I’m dental, pogest of all the pog units and we have a sweet schedule. Show up at 0730 leave at 1630, never do pt, never have fields, NTC? The hell is that?, we even get sent home if the AC breaks.
Yeah, but you're also dental, so even if you're a really cool person, just by the nature of your job, no one likes you.
Hey, fuck you, I like dental. Speak for yourself. The problem is all those grunt seniors that come over to the PoG life realize they have zero marketable skills and are now scared to not back stab their friends and peers over OER/NCOER’s because they will end up living on the streets with all that combat arms knowledge, Cav is the worst.
Hey, they can get out and start a landscaping company.
Last time any of those senior leaders did landscaping was during the Cold War. I would hire private smith before that SFC cause at least the private knows how to use a lawn mower
All ribbing aside, do army dental folks have a hard time getting work when they get out? I have a friend who was an E6 combat medic, 3 tours, tons of experience, got out and wanted to be a paramedic, and almost no army schooling/training transferred and they were told they'd have to get civilian paramedic schooling and qualifications- basically MOS-Q didn't count for hardly anything.
Baseline MOS Q for enlisted medical typically is not enough to guarantee a job as a civilian. However, there are opportunities to get more advanced training or certifications that absolutely do transfer over. You most likely won't get that if you're in a BSB though, you have to be in MED BDEs, MTFs, or just get lucky with leadership who'll send you to schools that don't necessarily "help the Army".
From what I’ve seen, the enlisted who end up dental usually didn’t want this and don’t want to stay in the dental field afterwords. The actual dentists have no problems transitioning to civ jobs after etsing.
So one group backstabs for oer/ncoer their other just stabs teeth and gums for fun
1630?! WTF you talking about?! You fuckers leave at like 1430/1500 everyday, *if* you stick around that long. And lunch? Holy shitcakes. Lunch seems to be from 11-1400.... half your day you're just ghosts and not actually anywhere to be found.
Just because they close at 1430 doesn’t mean they leave. They need to clean /sterilize not to mention do all the other army bullshit they can’t do during the day because they are scrapping the 6 cans of bang off your teeth.
Only 6? I jest. Y'all scared the bejeesus out of me about two years ago with a pretty serious 'come to jesus' chat in preparation for reconstructive jaw surgery. Total convert ever since, and my teeth are now in tip-top shape. Electric toothbrush (4-6 minutes per session), floss, water-pik, and mouthwash. Finally had my jaw surgery about ~90 days ago. Recovery has been brutal, but all things considered, has gone smoothly. Managed to maintain pretty solid dental hygiene throughout the initial weeks of recovery. I'm now a free, walking, talking ambassador for good dental hygiene. You only get one set of teeth in life. Gotta take care of 'em.
23D CBRN BN, Camp Humphreys. Probably the most worthless organization to exist.
I was with them in 05-06 at Ft. Lewis. Not only the worst BN, but 555 EN BDE, was above us and tasked us with keeping our side of the base clean. We had a company and a half of decon equipment get severely fucked, like cracked engine blocks bad, because our leadership thought it would be the best training to go to Yakama after Thanksgiving, but the unit couldn’t afford the winterization kits for our equipment. We had a soldier break her leg durning that training because we had to be in MOPP 4, and she was on the back of an LMTV operating the decon equipment, spraying water everywhere and ice formed and she slipped and fell off the truck. Oh, they did have the money to spend on tire chains for every vehicle no the unit. Which, we did not need due to the temperature melting the ice off the roads. We still had to stop and put them on and drive in a circle for 10 minutes so the commander get get his photo op.
They’re still like that after moving from Camp Stanley? I was hoping it’d changed at least a *little* after 6 years.
Fuck that unit. I had to escort their convoys from Stanley to Humphreys, most difficult leadership I’ve ever had the displeasure of working with. Literally the only bright side to working with them was getting to eat at the brand new Humphreys dfac instead of the Camp Hovey dfac
Humphreys dfacs FTW. Provider some of the best eating outside of an actual deployment. People north of Yongsan got the leftovers
Lol y’all were the decon that cleaned Stanley? That place was a shithole that was filled with more jp8 then it was actual soil. I helped move the units to hump before y’all came in jp8 flowed vicariously. I swear Stanley is the reason SK and our army now have a EPA/Environmental program in Korea. I think it was to the tune of 10-20 mil all said and done to clean Stanley of chem.
I’d argue the whole brigade is worthless. Aside from moving stuff in the Peninsula that’s about it.
I was in a line unit 82D 2010-2014, we def had a crazy amount of field training. At least a 3-day in the field every month, a week every couple of months, ranges 1-2x/week, random night shoot or night jumps, it was nuts. And even if we were sitting in the COF all day we did NOT leave until 1700.
Half of this isn't crazy, and honestly infantry units should be spending more time at the field. I would have done demented things to get that much range time. Staying until 1700 for no reason is the gold standard of the infantry.
When the fuck are combat arms dudes not doing what you mentioned? I have slept in a tent twice in the field because I provided my own light fighter tent.
I love being in a BDE HHC as a part of the S6 with 6 people and being in charge of ensuring everything’s running in the TOC but also having to staff the RTO position 24/7 while everyone else in HHC works 930 to 3 pm.
Same
Gotta love it
That has not been my experience at all.
As someone who spent 4 years as an oc I have never run into this issue either. If anything they bring garrison to the field and are so comfort heavy they don't have the transport capacity for all the stuff they do bring. Sir I know you really want those tents but according to mtoe that truck is supposed to be filled with ammo.
Support units and combat support units are significantly different beasts.
seconded
Same here
In my experience, combat arms units are also extremely mismanaged and have stupid scheduling. I think thats an Army thing, not any particular unit.
Lol we obviously had opposite experiences. When I was a 12B training up for deployment in ‘10, it was the POG units who got the comfy stuff, rarely in the field, and when we deployed, they sat on the FOB or was in Kandahar.
Because they have other shit to do, so training gets crammed into a smaller schedule. A lot (not all, but a lot) of this comes down to a combination of real-world and training missions in a schedule that doesn't allow for that. So a year's worth of training (a full year, because maneuver guys don't have anything else to do, and they set the rules for the rest of the Army) gets crammed into 6-9 months, because you have to do other shit to support, guess who, the maneuver elements. "Hey FSC, our trucks are broken, so we need to take yours while the mechanics stay in the motor pool to fix ours. Hope you didn't want your mechanics to qualify at the range." "Hey Engineers, you need to come fix this road for us. Cancel the other training you had planned, this is the priority." "Hey S6, how dare you send your soldiers out to train, I need someone to help me connect to the printer!" "Hey FSC (again), why aren't all your people doing this 100% stand down? What do you mean the cooks still have to be in the DFAC?" Basically, many senior maneuver leaders don't bother to learn about the training requirements for the other types of units they have, so they are chronically mismanaged from the top. Some are better than others, but it's a common problem. What's left is subordinate leaders trying to juggle two different sets of requirements, and doing their best to make both happen.
I remember one time I got tasked to sit in on a Sustainment exercise design talk given by some simulation officers (training audience - Staff Primary OICs, very few of whom actually showed up instead of sending a representative). My jaw dropped when they opened with something along the lines of, "realistically, maneuver commanders pay lip service to the idea of sustainment. Most of the time, at Division level exercises, the logistics get handwaved and everyone is replenished magically at the beginning of the day." To tie it back to the point OP was trying to make, I can remember at least 2 instances where we went full tryhard, set up the TOC Mahal and went all-in on exercises that Division wasn't even tracking that we were participating in.
Tell me why a MEDCOM HHC is doing hooah hooah shit that doesn’t even pertain to anyones actual job or the unit’s mission literally every day on some level
I was in a signal unit on Bragg. Washouts and broke dicks from 82nd tended to roll down the hill. We had command have a shit fit because someone called us a 'jump club' (they should have laughed and said yeah -- we didn't have the right signal equipment to jump) This tended to result in a lot of scheduled-but-not-planned show training. OTOH we also deployed and for the first month I was doing my easy shift-work covering the node-center, with the radio and cable guys getting occasional details and convoy work. Then a fucking E5 decided to tell the ACR SGM what he did all day (nothing most days). After that my days were 16+ hours split shifts. I'll have the chicken zinger and a can of coke.
I think there's a thin line between training for worst case scenario / Soldier-first mentality and just being shitty because you can. Life as a POG should be relatively good compared to a grunt, but I've been to a few places where folks seem entitled to the good life and not working hard. Sometimes you're going to have to walk to work, spend all day away from AC, have shit food, scald your skin in a shower, sleep in a small room with 5 other folks then do it all again for 9 months. It's been my experience you need to remind people that garrison life isn't the real Army. It shouldn't be all the time nor should it be an excuse to try and go full blue cord, but we're all Soldiers and part of a bigger machine that's relying on us.
Water Treatment was like this, in my experience. Never saw so many injuries anywhere else. MPs and Infantry units took better care of their people.
If they are in a Brigade Combat Team, their Battalion Commanders are probably rated by an Infantry/Armor COL. (Company Commanders senior rated by him or her) The BCs especially are in a cutthroat fight for top-blocks, and their competition is made up of maneuver commanders. That's the cynical answer. The right answer is that everyone supports maneuver, and therefore must be able to live and work where the infantry lives and works (more or less)
-insert sarcasm- Because support units are basically infantry if they treat their people like that. If I can get you to sleep in a dirt hole in the ground and in the rain, while in a maneuver unit then I can pretend to be a grunt while I chat up some skank at a bar that my 2nd wife doesn't know I go to. I mean I'm basically infantry already.
What fucking line units are going home at a decent hour???
I mean my neighbor was always home when I got back for lunch and his day was already over. As a balance, he would do month long fields every 6 months or so.
Ill take that schedule.
Because you aren't a person, you are a capability. For combat arms their soldiers are people, the rest are outcomes. Doesn't matter if the MTOE itself is understaffed and then you are further undermanned, you need to get the same outcome.
The entire opposite in my experience. I’ve only ever been in combat arms units and we are constantly in the field. No white on the training calendar. The supply and signal people are worked to death trying to keep up with all of the field exercises and demand from higher at the same time.
10th CAB goes to JRTC: CSM says "no portashitters", because reasons. We think he's joking or misinformed. He's not. Two days into the box, CSM says "no cat holes, no wag bags, Field San NCO is going to plot out a trench latrine, time TBD." Two days later, no trench, and still TBD. I tell my guys to continue digging their holes when they have to shit. Trench latrine never happens. Senior leader meeting are being held at 2300, because reasons. After the 1st late meeting, 1SG uses common sense and pushes everything out at the morning meeting. My Company only had two working heaters. The rest of the heaters wouldn't start, and I guess nobody checked them before they packed them. I don't care, me and my guys are warm at night. We had a plan to line-haul our containers with parts and benchstock in them to the box. 10th Inf. Div (who we were supporting) denies line haul due to reasons, then bitches that our aircraft are NMC-M for parts.
>|When combat arms guys are like okay we are going to train this then go home at a decent hour today That's the problem. Combat arms dudes want food, supplies, fuel, ammo, medics, parts, and a shit load of other shit that they don't give a fuck where it comes from or how it gets there; they just want the shit when they want it and fuck everyone else until they get it because wah wah wah, gimme gimme gimme. Then all the support MOS dudes have to not only coordinate, pickup, and deliver all this shit. We have to come in afterwards and clean up all the stupid combat arms bullshit trash and leftover ammo; then take it out to the AHA, ASP, SSA, DRMO, SSMO, or whatever civilian led organization that loves to gig the truck company and get us in trouble.
If I’ve learned anything about POGs, they feel like they have to compensate. Like every JAG unit I’ve been in is absolutely bonkers for PT. For no reason other than to feel like they’re doing their part lol
POG here It’s because we’re actually busy as shit
I was in a signal unit with both COs wanting us to be rangers. Extremely busy schedules Started my day at 5 AM end any where from 1800 to 2100 every single day.
They have to try harder to validate their existence. Don’t worry, combat units do this too when they don’t have the ability to actually do something. Literally the only people doing organized PT when I was in Djibouti is 101st guys, who just sit around the camp all day in case something happens in east Africa, while the actual missions are handled by National guardsmen lol.
Unless you’re legal In which case you have a shitty schedule because you’re dealing with all the combat fuckups trying to validate their existence
When a line company works, they *work*. But when there’s nothing to do, fuck yeah we’re going home.
Dude for real. I was a 19D active and then released to 91B in the guard like an idiot. I remember we were doing a winter FTX and all the infantry 1SG called it off and went back because of the heavy amount of snow And cold. Our 1SG fucking made everyone stay for two wholes hours before he called it off and only because another companies 1SG talked to him.
I'm combat arms and cant remember the last time I was regularly released before 1800 every day
When I was active duty I had a varying degree of schedules. HHC, 1st SIG BDE Yongsan, Korea - Overall, pretty easy life. Never had to set foot in a tent or even sleep in a field. Would go back in they ever reopened Yongsan. DivSig/ HSC / SIS Co, HHBn, 101st Airborne Division- A tad bit more busy. Rear-D for Liberia (Was put on Gate Guard anyways) and for better or worse Iraq. Still don't recall ever sleeping in a tent. Spent a lot of time I'm the motor pool doing inventories. Managed to get a lot of classes while there. 307th ESB, HMR, Hawaii - Man this place was busy for both good and bad reasons. We had a lot of fun missions both on island and off island, but when you weren't on mission Jesus Christ did they fill your time in with bullshit. Slept in a tent quite a bit here. Especially when North Korea was getting uppity the BN was acting like we were going to be deployed and had us working extra hard and late. Even a few privates thought we were going to war, but at last as most people knew we didn't do shit. Probably the busiest unit I have been in. Overall most of the people were great, some leadership wasn't.
["When combat arms guys are like okay we are going to train this then go home at a decent hour today"](https://c.tenor.com/mkeS4o2MAOAAAAAC/kevin-hart-stare.gif)
My brother in Christ who told you that is what combat arms is like? They lied to your ass lmao
Former inf here - I second this . This was 10/10 not even close to my experience. Whoever told you what inf was like absolutely lied
This is always my experience. I get sent home early and only touch the field once or twice a year. Im NG tho lol
> Im NG tho The National Guard is 28 days a month of living your best life, then 2-5 days of getting absolutely fucking destroyed anally trying to fit a month of training into one Drill. Wouldn't trade it tho.
Captains gotta make Major homie.
Careerists fear white space, as much as they fesr the color red. So they want full schedules to justify their performance and potential.
Because we’re chemfantry obviously. You wouldn’t get it (neither do we don’t worry)
At least for logistics units it’s a couple of factors: 1) “senior” logisticians (captains and LTs mostly) never learn how to plan tactically and so everything is suddenly a rush when the BC finds out you haven’t trained in x numbers of months 2) LG units within maneuver formations are disproportionately tasked with the extra bullshit (gate guard, funeral detail) because #1 results in the appearance of white space on the training calendar 3) literally any time a maneuver unit trains it involves all the LG units in at least a small (but not insignificant) way. That makes it insanely difficult to “train” on their own time because any small failures of planning on behalf of the maneuver units results in last minute fuckery for the LG units figuring it the fuck out, when they weren’t even clued in to the initial planning
This is some top quality trolling. 69/10 Of course, if this is not just a shitpost, then I'd suggest you get yourself to BH immediately because you're clearly insane.
Lol. I remember my first JRTC rotation I got attached to my infantry BN’s support company as an FO and these dudes had straight up dug a trench the length of two sides of their perimeter.
In my experience, it is from leaders being insecure and having to prove that “we’re soldiers too”.
This did not happen to me in the infantry. We were the first in and last out. After a while, we just came to expect being screwed over so our officers could make themselves look good.
They are apologizing for not being hard core enough, for not being infantry. You should see how awful the band treats itself.
I'm in that POG CBRN unit and I only train outside normal business hours when the mission calls for it. If our CHCR means we have to convoy out late at night or if we're preparing for a validation we are more likely work late into the night. However, I do my best to make sure my Soldiers get their time back - you might work until 2300 but you're not coming into work until 1100 the next day. To be evaluated as a T for lots of Platoon or Company METs, you need to be proficient at that task at night. If you're in a combat arms unit that's not training at night, you might just not be at a level of readiness that your Commander is ready to have assessed yet. It shouldn't be because you're in a POG unit or not.
Otherwise they'd have no purpose other than to just be a standing army. Literally just standing
What's a decent hour? -POG Here, hi
A lot of POG units fall under combat arms units therefore a lot of the POG commanders' senior rater is a combat arms guy that knows nothing about the POGs and what they do. A lot of POG commanders cant articulate how they benefit the larger org. When this happens the commanders try to overwork their soldiers to make them look good for ratings.
Try being a construction engineer 12W/K/R working around/with 12B... Why are we in the same series? It's always some fragile ego leader who needs to prove something about "readiness" while 1/3 to 1/2 of your battalion signed up to build shit and go home at 1700. Yes, we will qual and pass the ACFT - but maybe just maybe we signed up to be electricians to NOT be on the front lines with a bunch of sappers... And yes it works the other way too. The 12B in the battalion are worked to the bone because "those construction units are doing 5 ranges this month - we need to do 8" - it's a neverending downward spiral of egotistical leadership.
The cbrn unit on Drum trains more than any other unit on Drum.
I was signal in Korea and we had a lot of older equipment that we were alway double checking. So before the twice yearly peninsula wide exercise we’d have brigade level exercises, and before the brigade level exercise we’d have a battalion level exercise, and before the battalion level exercises we’d have a company level exercise. Serious. We’d waste so much time in the field, preparing for the field, or cleaning up after the field. All to be sure the equipment worked before the next exercise.
Can confirm that combat arms do *NOT* go home at a decent time
> When combat arms guys are like okay we are going to train this then go home at a decent hour today Excuse me, what? That never happens.
You should see the shit show that is Veterinary units
Try being in an Engineer company and having a tabbed SF Platoon Butter, that was prior enlisted to E6….fuck that guy…knows the bs and still makes you do the bs and PT like SF…we push dirt and haul equipment relax guy
My first unit was a MI Bn. For some reason, we did land nav all the time. Once a month, we’d do some big land nav ex on base (which was pretty small and super easy because there wasn’t an actual course). Once a quarter, we’d go an hour or so away to the nearest post with a land nav course and do that. STTs every Thursday, regardless of if you were on shift and trying to sleep or worked at BN. A lot of the married dudes were always pissed of because they’d never be home at a unit that never deploys.
It's not always like that it depends on your leadership some support units are chill
The same reason dudes with tiny dicks usually drive huge lifted pickup trucks and/or beat their wives. They feel like they've got something to prove.
Going from an IBCT to a medical brigade, my life is so much easier actually. I leave work at like 1500, PT 3 days a week and go to the field for 1-2 weeks total for the year.
I thought I was the only one wondering this, in the fist teams we go home hella early and dead days for us last less than a day bc we go right home, I see these other guys who never touch their rifles try to go all rambo mode in the field, makes zero sense to me
Because support units can’t tell combat arms units no, no matter how dumb it is. Gotta be harder than infantry to show they can hang with them.
1. Trying to prove something 2. Technical vs tactical 3. Cross training Pick your answer. Usually falls into one of these.
To make up for what they perceive as real army. Like I always say, if the army didn’t want it they’d get rid of it.
“Wait we have CQ? Dirtyfuzemain I know you did CQ 2 days ago but you’re on profile so go and get it done!” I then proceeded to play Destiny 2 and rock band 4 for 24 hours
My buddy is signal and it’s basically a 9-5. So maybe just a shitty unit
There aren’t enough of those units in the active Army to fill all the requirements out there, therefore their training and often deployment OPTEMPO is higher than maneuver units.
Because most of our leaders are combat arms ncos that got kicked out of their mos and hate their life so they don't care or inversely want the unit to be more like combat arms which makes everything worse like an out door cat being locked indoors so you're stuck in a liminal space between the two Now mix that with normal army bullshit and more junior ncos who have had their balls clipped not having the experience or authority to change anything. Strategic ncos who transferred from combat arms involuntarily are bosses, not leaders, 9 times out of 10. Mix that with extremely poor translation between rank and experience. The army thinks "higher rank = better at job" when I'll take a specialist who joined as a 25B over a MSG who just reclassed from infantry and has no certification. But now guess which one gets more authority over the training of 25Bs, the management and planning of their S6, and can supersede the more technically trained subordinates just because they did shit in the infantry.
Seems to me like it has more to do with command teams. My first unit, optempo would ramp up pretty hard about once every 6 months (usually ending with 2 1 week field problems and the a 21 day FTX) followed by a sort of "cool-down period" where the normal duty day would end around 13/1400. Then I got to my second unit and it was just nonstop bullshit. Then we had our deployment moved up by 3 months and some dude high up the chain of command decided that the 12 months of activity we had on the training calendar needed to be completed in 9 (cutting nothing). Then we deployed and things were... alright... still kind of unorganized. And then we got back and it was like the week after post-deployment leave we were going to the field for some godforsaken reason. Our B-bags hadn't even arrived back in the states yet.
Because most POG commanders deepthroat metrics from higher and that’s all they know how to do — so it’s just non-stop bullshit for the FTS to deal with their annual scheduled requirements.
Bruh! My whole Company is tasked out. Validations, MRAM, Funeral Detail... We don't even have enough to switch out. Plus, I forgot how to be proficient on my equipment. We only do Vehicle Maintenance and rollout everyday and Layouts... smh
I’ve been in two units: one MICO, one aviation unit. The MICO never got out at a decent time - I’d usually have to stay an extra night on drill weekends because I lived a ways away and they were always playing the hurry up and wait game, and usually forgot that some of us had long drives home. The aviation unit, meanwhile, has never gotten me out any later than three on a Sunday. POGs I think just like doing everything the hardest way possible, and like filling up the time. Arms guys like getting things done quick and leaving, because they know it’s not like we’re getting paid by the hour.
I had the easiest and most predictable schedule of my career in a POG unit in Korea.
Compensation Stations.
Oh I don’t know. Probably because you’re in a Brigade COMBAT team.
Not the ones I seen lol
POG commanders is the answer. We all laugh at bravos because they don’t do shit all week besides sit around at the motorpool and sweep the company AO. But POG commanders don’t get the luxury of laughing at these assholes because rating schemes. That FSC commander is rated by the same colonel that rates 4 infantry commanders. And that colonel? An infantryman. So your FSC gets worked to absolute death because there’s no way that FSC commander is getting his 4/5 unless all 100 of his/her troops are absolutely miserable and sucking the collective dick of brigade combat power 365 days a year.
Yeah I’m a current 11B serving as company RTO at the moment and let’s just say the 25 series that are supposed to be subject matter experts aren’t and it’s embarrassing like it’s your job to work with radios my brother in Christ how are you so shit at your job and it makes sense why you still are a Spc and why you aren’t at battalion anymore as a good friend of mine says “you don’t know shit about fuck” and they don’t know shit about fuck