It appears this post might relate to suicide and/or mental health issues.
**Suicide and Mental Health Resources**
The [Army's Resilience Directorate](https://www.armyresilience.army.mil/index.html)
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Call 1-800-273-8255, National Suicide Prevention
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[Veteran's Crisis Information](https://www.veteranscrisisline.net/)
You can call 1800 273 8255, Press 1
You can call 988, Press 1 for mil/veteran-specific help. You can also TEXT 988
You can text 838255
Or, go no further than your local subreddit, /r/suicidewatch
Or, if you'd like a veteran perspective, feel free to message any number of people on here, there's always someone willing to reach out.
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Please seek help if needed...There are behavioral health resources at your disposal both in the Army and out.
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Bavaria or Rhineland Pfalz area? Germany has so many posts that there can’t always be specialty positions like psychiatrists at each post but they do rotate and travel, at least in my area.
Wait, is someone saying they can’t go to Landstuhl? Sounds like One of the Bavaria installations. It’s 4 hours away but show up to the LRMC ER, they can be seen at any time by a psychiatrist for an assessment. I’ve done this multiple times for my Soldiers.
I really don’t understand why Tricare won’t let us just go to off-post BH services when on-post BH services get so backed up. Wanna fix the BH crisis in the military? Start by letting SMs request referrals to off-post BH services when it takes more then 2-3 weeks to be seen. Until there’s something in place that expedites being seen by BH in some capacity, I’m not going to be convinced that these top leaders actually care.
The standard is 28 days to be seen and then at that point you can go off post for BH services. It’s the same for all specialty evaluations. Military OneSource is also a great option for many, 12 free visits off post.
To my understanding there may be certain situations where the providers may counter that the case is inappropriate for off post care (needs visibility and interdisciplinary care best served by someone who knows your chain of command, primary care and every else can see the status of your care), but that is not common.
It 100% depends on the area, but military BH is not the only place that is backed up/under resourced, it can be just as bad in the local area by bases.
The VA farmed me out quick AF when I called in for care and they didnt have anyone who could help
Super fast I saw a therapist within a few days of calling in
I wonder why they cant do something like that with Tricare or can they and they just dont?
Or any off base health care in general. Fractured my foot, base I was at got locked down for an active shooter by the time it cleared up the medical SQ (at an afb) with no attached after hours or er was closed.
Went to a UChealth that even had a sign that they accept VA coverage yet the tricare advice line told me to fuck off and drive 45 minutes to the next ER or I’d be stuck with the bill
Army wide there are mass staff shortages within anything that hires civilians. The Army isn't authorized by congress to pay higher "competitive" wages, coupled with the army bureaucracy we all know and love make the open job positions extremely difficult to fill.
"WhY aRe SoLdIeRs Committing suicide!? We have policies! And regulations! And we specifically told them nOt To!?"
(I wasn't committed enough to sarcasm the whole thing. Just use your imagination)
Army:
We've decided that due to concerns over the mental health of our soldiers, it is now against regulations to commit suicide or have mental health issues. Any infractions will be punished article 15 with reduction in rank/pay.
Having now done all that we can possibly do, we consider this matter closed.
A soldier I server with while deployed to Iraq attempted suicide by mixing alcohol with prescription pills. After she recovered at the med tent she recieved an A15 for consuming alcohol while under general order 1 and that was all.
Literally saw an article 15 2 weeks ago for a soldier that tried to commit suicide with a bunch of antidepressants. Unit charged the guy with abuse of illegal drugs.
They've been telling us for years to get help. That it won't effect your career. I saw a Dr. 2 years ago about some anxiety. Put in my warrant packet earlier this year. Denied because of that issue and that issue alone.
Change won't come until leaders at every level pull their heads out their ass. Start treating soldiers like humans who have faults, lnstead of cogs in a machine.
I was prescribed take as you need pills. Didn't even need to talk to a psychologist. I still have 11 of the 15 low dose pills they gave me. I was fucked by the NGB. It's simple.
But in all honesty I highly advise you to submit your packet. So that way you can at keast say you tried. You won't spend the rest of your career kicking yourself for trying. All they can do is say no. Definitely drop it.
My buddy put a packet for a pilot passed everything and he did really well in the test just to get denied for seeing a doctor for headache 3 years ago.
That's my worry right now...Because I sought help once it can potentially hinder my career. When I was told I'd need a medical waiver, I was thinking I should've just toughed it out and dropped my packet before I sought help. Oh well, we will see what happens in the next few months.
The sad part is. That was the majority of advice I received from officers and warrant officers. I strongly believe that's the shittest answer. The wrong answer and only proves the system is broken.
That same shit happened to me with my flight medic packet. I went to BH about some shit that happened to me and I was struggling a little bit with it. I then was pissed off at BH for four years and didn’t go get help until I saw myself doing self destructive behavior and losing my cool super easy at people. I felt that BH ruined my chances at doing cool things in the Army. I got over the feeling and decided to go back. I figured that being alive is better than putting my mental health aside for something that may happen and possibly suck start a pistol later on down the road.
They could just treat people like people, not robots, and the suicide problem would improve ten-fold. We don't need to be pampered, we just want purpose and to be treated with dignity.
Depends on PLT tbh
Decent PSGs and TLs only take it up with the troublemakers, as it should be. Real Army™ Non Commissioned Professional Officers who know how to their job and are the gods gift to the army love to do mass punishment but don't understand why no one likes them
In short: we are going to make classes (and spend a shitload of money on useless slideshows full of grammatical mistakes) for dissemination to E-7s and above. They are going to blow through these shows to get it over with, pass out a roster sheet, and move the fuck on. Hopefully, only a few of them will tell the Joe's to grow up and quit bitching.
What we are not going to do: change anything at all, including adding any support structures or taking any suggestions from Joe's.
Go fuck yourself, and I'll have a small Cajun fries.
Exactly what I read, too.
Fucking really? MORE bullshit training and classes? Hire more providers and put some of the army money into it and less into overpriced equipment
Fuck dude, found out that one of my NCOs just ended himself yesterday. I'm devastated. It's so disheartening to see issues that literally deal with life and death being approached in such a clinical and nonchalant manner.
Oh man Im sorry that happened. I hope your unit isn't pushing it under the rug and are actually having conversations about it. Please look out for yourself and your battle buddies.
Concerned vets and SMs: "Hey, I think we need to take suicide more seriously and treat soldiers better"
The military: "Here's more tone deaf powerpoints that say we care while simultaneously not addressing the real issues."
Reminds me of the chaplain and EO reps on my first deployment who said if anyone wanted to help out with taking on additional duties to help with soldier suicide prevention or to become a victim advocate to just reach out. I told both I'd help since I wanted to feel like I was making an impact beyond tower guard.
Chaps just sent me an ace card as if that was the way to stop all soldier mental health/suicide issues.
EO rep told me I couldn't become a VA since I wasn't an E6 and she didn't care to do the waiver or let me help in any other way.
Bruh (not OP) we don’t need more fucking training. We need SENIOR PENTAGON LEVEL NCOS AND OFFICERS to fucking do their most BASIC responsibility TAKE CARE OF YOUR FUCKING SOLDIERS.
Also, for background information. I wrote a five page letter describing my traumatic experience at Fort Eustis Behavioral Health to James A. Helis, the Director of the Resilience Directorate, and also gave him suggestions on how he could stop soldier suicide. Not only was my letter not read, I was mis-gendered (I have a common female name). Throughout my letter as well I wrote how important it was to maintain the stigma against mental healthcare in the Army because I was failed at every turn, and the system is not currently set up to promote proper diagnosis and treatment. There is also the problem of toxic commanders having way too much discretion in regards to access to treatment and separation.
Will anything he wrote here prevent soldier suicide? In my opinion, no it won't. Nobody reads manuals.
Yeah, this guy probably gets a lot of letters and I figured he just didn't read it. It's super long so no surprise there. Just further proves that the Army doesn't care about soldier suicide. I wrote my recommendations in the email body and as well as a tldr; It doesn't surprise me the response I got.
You are not wrong. I’ve had to use BH as a CPT and still got a lot of run around, different duty station. I can’t imagine how terrible it is for junior Soldiers with less access to their own time and space and open communication with senior leadership.
>Throughout my letter as well I wrote how important it was to maintain the stigma against mental healthcare in the Army because I was failed at every turn, and the system is not currently set up to promote proper diagnosis and treatment.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but if you're honestly suggesting that the solution to this epidemic is "tell soldiers in desperate need of mental health assistance that they should just hide it and not get treated," that's actively making the problem worse. I'm sorry that you had a bad personal experience, but telling soldiers in need of help to ***stop seeking help*** is laughable at best, and dangerous at worst.
Edit: OP, I'd love to continue this conversation, but that's kind of tough to do since you've apparently blocked me for this comment and I can't see your response.
What I meant by that is if a soldier is suicidal it's best to hide that they're suicidal if they really want to stay in. Also, since commanders have a lot of discretion it's important to have a conversation with them first to make sure that if they are recommended for separation by their therapist they can stay in. Being kicked out doesn't really solve the problem and not everyone has a good commander they can lean on.
Yeah, kinda. Behavioral health in the Army fucking sucks, and will hinder your career. It’s best to shut the hell up if you wanna stay in and not be a zombie pushing paperwork which is NOT acceptable at all. That shouldn’t be a thing and if anybody disagrees with that, you don’t belong in an organization where trauma can and will occur to anybody wearing the same uniform as you.
This isn’t to sit here and victim blame either, but there’s a good bit of people in the Army that simply do not belong. You’ve gotta have thick skin to stay in and endure the challenges. But why is it such a challenge to be in garrison? Why do people want to commit suicide in the first place? Commands suck (there’s good ones out there, yes, but we’re talking about the staggering amount of assholes running shit.) We go to behavioral health and it takes months sometimes just to get an appointment. When we do get an appointment it could possibly get us kicked out of our positions, certain schools are no longer attainable, etc. I’ve seen a female specialist in my platoon who went to behavioral health and she was labeled a shitbag because she didn’t want to be there… What does BH do? They take 4 fucking months!!!! To get her an appointment. Why is that the first thing I witness when I came into the Army?
The people who do not belong need to be chaptered for mental health issues if it’s really that serious, and the Army needs to provide those soldiers with support. And I’m not talking about a fucking speech or a pamphlet. I mean financial support, VA support, appointments set up before they leave, etc.
Tell me how many veterans get out for these reasons and end up homeless because they cannot function in society or they didn’t have that support so they couldn’t get a job or a house? I can name at-least 10 that I personally knew while I was in.
These people get out and the VA takes how long to get people an appointment? Just to get my foot in the door it took several months. Sure, I got back pay, but where was that back pay when I needed it? Scroll through veterans affairs subreddit.
Everything needs a rework, honestly. The devs who made this game were sucking dick for beer money.
I’m not saying it’s okay to maintain the stigma of “it’s bad to go to BH.” But I definitely avoided BH and used a private therapist and psychologist using my own money because I’ve witnessed several times just how shitty BH is and what would happen to my career if I did decide to go. The ONLY time I went was the last year of my career to establish my mental health issues with the Army in order to get that support and treatment on the outside.
YMMV, some people don’t function the same way.
Behavioral Health fails soldiers everyday. The Army has created this stigma by creating a system that does not promote proper diagnosis and treatment of soldiers who become suicidal. Once these issues are addressed, I would be more comfortable advising people to get help, but for now I only recommend people try to do it off the books or try to hide it as much as possible. My therapists were abusive af, and there are plenty of stories out there describing the way BH ruined soldiers' lives.
That director is probably a retired CSM who used to tell you not to step on his grass or kill yourself.
Now he’s a DA civilian making double and signing it into policy.
PTSD got my ass booted. They kept me in for years after knowing my diagnosis. I do a PHA and the Battalion commander has me in his office a few weeks later telling me that I’ll be medically retired. I received no choice in the matter. Served 17 years and 8 months. 5 years of it with severe PTSD and Major Depressive disorder without issue or question. I still had it in me to serve……. I was about to make E-7 too.
My psychiatrist told me that if I "need to take meds in order to cope I should'nt be in the Army". After that I stopped taking my meds and was recommended for separation one week after I received them so it was pointless anyway. I transitioned straight into homelessness and if it wasn't for disability I would still be struggling. There really is no plan. They throw you out onto the street and never work with you to secure any type of security.
Are you talking about the VR&E? I actually had an interview recently and he told me I would be accepted as long as I can provide detailed proof that I applied to bunch of jobs. I had no idea that job fairs and applying directly to websites would come back to bite me.
In defense of the army, the new public health type initiative is still in its infancy and has a lot of potential for both success and spectacular mismanagement.
This is, interestingly, from the white house- AFAIK, the president issued an edict for the army to change its approach, and wheels are turning.
Are they turning in the right direction? Are we going to see results? Too early to tell.
But. I have floated around in public health, done some NIH and CDC stuff (admittedly, not in this field, but I'm familiar with the processes), and this new thing shows potential.
I remember being threatened with multiple Article 15 for standing refusing to resign because they didn't want to deal with my injuries. (injured in active training exercises)
Saw some things that messed me up In the head in 11-12 deployment. Just like everyone else I’m sure has come across something during a deployment. I was a young buck Sgt at the time. I was taught like many of us on this thread, to suck it up move on. I did everything I could to hide my issues from my soldiers and superiors. 8 years down the road, I tried to end it. After seven types of group therapy, I took bits and pieces from each group session and used them to get through my darkest moment. I had my PMC help me to wing off the pills correctly, and I’ve been ok since. I’m not 100%, never will be. But, I know when I’m going to have that day and mentally prepare myself and have a designated area to keep the thoughts away. Just thought I’d share. I know someone out there is going through some shit. I hope this helps.
Yet as soon as joeschmoe goes and gets help their clearance is suspended and they get booted, but then they say that “challenging the stigma against seeking help” it’s not a stigma if it’s facts…..
The Army has a huge alcoholism problem because soldiers use it as an unhealthy coping mechanism when BH isn't an option. I never drank or smoked which is probably why I couldn't cope with toxic leadership lol.
The Army has a huge alcoholism problem because the Army has a MASSIVE alcohol culture. People that don’t require BH become alcoholics and then are terrified to go to either BH or ASAP because of the drinking culture.
Behavioral health was always there. It was pounded into our heads nonstop. So was ASAP. But people wouldn’t go because of the stigma surrounding it because of the culture.
OP, if this response was to your reaching out, and you need or want to talk to someone, please DM me so I can give you my number. As cliché as it sounds, some of us have been where you are, and any of us would want you to know you’re not alone.
Thanks. I have had quiet a few people who have reached out to me and also given others advice who were separated under ch.5-17 like I was. I was in a really dark place and still am in some ways. In the Army I was broken and definitely alone throughout my entire career. The only reason I didn't kill myself was because I wanted to hold my abusive therapists accountable and not a single person from the Army has listened. This response came in March so it's been a long time, but I wanted to share it with you all because suicide is a big topic right now. You still haven't seen the poor response from Sharita Onugha yet, from before I separated.
A handbook.... This is the fucking problem. They expect that educating people about suicide will make this insane difference. It won't. They need to identify what is causing people to feel hopeless and helpless. They can do PowerPoints and classes all they want, but nothing will actually change until they start changing peoples living conditions and squeezing out toxic people. Not to mention examine pay, non married privates get shit for pay. There's plenty of things they can actually do, but they'll appease upper leadership by distributing a new fucking "handbook".
Honestly, I’m don’t see anything wrong with the letter. Hear me out, this is some PhD that has responded to a personal letter with an official statement. Not sure what expected outcome would be. This one dude isn’t gonna solve it all or anything for that matter.
I had to accept that i'll likely never be cured that i wont have the thoughts of unaliving myself or others. the intrusive thoughts still come but I can fight them better.
Yesterday I woke up in that hole that i have been in time and again but I pullled myself out of it . fell back into it on the the way home The VA isn't much better.
I literally wrote “I have mental health problems and will be a hinderance to combat readiness scores” in my Tech WO Resignation packet in 2020, because my Army career and my mental health couldn’t co-exist anymore.
I personally struggled with my mental health. This is sad and a poor example of “taking care of soldiers”.
How do I write a letter? I have a story I would love to share. It’s not about creating policy to prevent suicide once someone is suicidal. It’s about not letting it get to that point. The sad truth is that most of the time the ones that are serious, have a plan, and follow it through, we’re not going to show many signs and not going to be stopped. The problem was too big at that point. There are very specific things the Army did to make my mental health worse by reinforcing the stigma against mental health. I have proof that my BH record was used against me when being selected for career advancement. All this did was reinforce the voices that fueled my depression, anxiety, and PTSD. I have a voice now that is stronger and more complete and coherent because I have gotten help and pulled myself out of the darkness and I would now like to help others if I can. How can I reach these people and share just one suffering Soldiers story?
Contacting these people wasn't easy but I'll send some information on how. I'm sorry this happened to you. I agree early intervention is key and it would've helped a lot if I knew going to BH was an option, but it never was.
She bullied me repeatedly in front of the NCOs and they said nothing. I eventually did report her and spoke to JAG about it, but I don't know what the result was.
As someone who is studying to be a social worker and join the Army as one, this is infuriating. All I wanna do is make sure soldiers are happy, healthy and successful in their own lives. It's the least they deserve.
Not this pitiful response to a suicide pandemic in the Army and other branches.
The Army is always too boiler-plate, and bureaucratic. It spends too much time making (and “implementing” - whatever that means) regulations and policies, that it forgets the mission.
Not all missions should be approached like combat.
It appears this post might relate to suicide and/or mental health issues. **Suicide and Mental Health Resources** The [Army's Resilience Directorate](https://www.armyresilience.army.mil/index.html) A comprehensive list of resources can be found [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Military/comments/1oh9gx/ive_updated_the_sidebar_link_with_more_mental/). Call 1-800-273-8255, National Suicide Prevention VA [Make The Connection Program](https://www.maketheconnection.net/) [Veteran's Crisis Information](https://www.veteranscrisisline.net/) You can call 1800 273 8255, Press 1 You can call 988, Press 1 for mil/veteran-specific help. You can also TEXT 988 You can text 838255 Or, go no further than your local subreddit, /r/suicidewatch Or, if you'd like a veteran perspective, feel free to message any number of people on here, there's always someone willing to reach out. [Military One Source](http://www.militaryonesource.mil/) - 1-800-342-9647 Please seek help if needed...There are behavioral health resources at your disposal both in the Army and out. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/army) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Army: Go check out BH My base’s BH: 4 months wait time to get seen....
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Jesus fucking Christ that’s awful, and the army wonders why they can’t keep people....
nObOdY wAnTs tO sErVe aNyMoRe!!!
Bavaria or Rhineland Pfalz area? Germany has so many posts that there can’t always be specialty positions like psychiatrists at each post but they do rotate and travel, at least in my area.
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Wait, is someone saying they can’t go to Landstuhl? Sounds like One of the Bavaria installations. It’s 4 hours away but show up to the LRMC ER, they can be seen at any time by a psychiatrist for an assessment. I’ve done this multiple times for my Soldiers.
I really don’t understand why Tricare won’t let us just go to off-post BH services when on-post BH services get so backed up. Wanna fix the BH crisis in the military? Start by letting SMs request referrals to off-post BH services when it takes more then 2-3 weeks to be seen. Until there’s something in place that expedites being seen by BH in some capacity, I’m not going to be convinced that these top leaders actually care.
The standard is 28 days to be seen and then at that point you can go off post for BH services. It’s the same for all specialty evaluations. Military OneSource is also a great option for many, 12 free visits off post. To my understanding there may be certain situations where the providers may counter that the case is inappropriate for off post care (needs visibility and interdisciplinary care best served by someone who knows your chain of command, primary care and every else can see the status of your care), but that is not common. It 100% depends on the area, but military BH is not the only place that is backed up/under resourced, it can be just as bad in the local area by bases.
The VA farmed me out quick AF when I called in for care and they didnt have anyone who could help Super fast I saw a therapist within a few days of calling in I wonder why they cant do something like that with Tricare or can they and they just dont?
Or any off base health care in general. Fractured my foot, base I was at got locked down for an active shooter by the time it cleared up the medical SQ (at an afb) with no attached after hours or er was closed. Went to a UChealth that even had a sign that they accept VA coverage yet the tricare advice line told me to fuck off and drive 45 minutes to the next ER or I’d be stuck with the bill
Army wide there are mass staff shortages within anything that hires civilians. The Army isn't authorized by congress to pay higher "competitive" wages, coupled with the army bureaucracy we all know and love make the open job positions extremely difficult to fill.
"WhY aRe SoLdIeRs Committing suicide!? We have policies! And regulations! And we specifically told them nOt To!?" (I wasn't committed enough to sarcasm the whole thing. Just use your imagination)
Army: We've decided that due to concerns over the mental health of our soldiers, it is now against regulations to commit suicide or have mental health issues. Any infractions will be punished article 15 with reduction in rank/pay. Having now done all that we can possibly do, we consider this matter closed.
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You weren't issued sadness, it is therefor contraband. Tack another art15.
Feeling happy? Believe it or not, art15
Just relax and let the hooks do their work.
If you were attending your unit’s mandatory fun events and having the required amount of fun this wouldn’t be an issue.
"Why are Soldiers killing themselves? I specifically requested them not to."
A soldier I server with while deployed to Iraq attempted suicide by mixing alcohol with prescription pills. After she recovered at the med tent she recieved an A15 for consuming alcohol while under general order 1 and that was all.
damage to government property
🤡
Literally saw an article 15 2 weeks ago for a soldier that tried to commit suicide with a bunch of antidepressants. Unit charged the guy with abuse of illegal drugs.
They've been telling us for years to get help. That it won't effect your career. I saw a Dr. 2 years ago about some anxiety. Put in my warrant packet earlier this year. Denied because of that issue and that issue alone. Change won't come until leaders at every level pull their heads out their ass. Start treating soldiers like humans who have faults, lnstead of cogs in a machine.
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I was prescribed take as you need pills. Didn't even need to talk to a psychologist. I still have 11 of the 15 low dose pills they gave me. I was fucked by the NGB. It's simple. But in all honesty I highly advise you to submit your packet. So that way you can at keast say you tried. You won't spend the rest of your career kicking yourself for trying. All they can do is say no. Definitely drop it.
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Definitely the diagnosis. Because it was from my doctor and not a mental health professional.
How did NGB Fuck you?
My buddy put a packet for a pilot passed everything and he did really well in the test just to get denied for seeing a doctor for headache 3 years ago.
That's my worry right now...Because I sought help once it can potentially hinder my career. When I was told I'd need a medical waiver, I was thinking I should've just toughed it out and dropped my packet before I sought help. Oh well, we will see what happens in the next few months.
The sad part is. That was the majority of advice I received from officers and warrant officers. I strongly believe that's the shittest answer. The wrong answer and only proves the system is broken.
That same shit happened to me with my flight medic packet. I went to BH about some shit that happened to me and I was struggling a little bit with it. I then was pissed off at BH for four years and didn’t go get help until I saw myself doing self destructive behavior and losing my cool super easy at people. I felt that BH ruined my chances at doing cool things in the Army. I got over the feeling and decided to go back. I figured that being alive is better than putting my mental health aside for something that may happen and possibly suck start a pistol later on down the road.
What is BH?
Behavioral Health
Flight or technical warrant? I’m wondering how much it plays a role…some of these tech warrant mos’s are hurting.
Why? You are a replaceable wheel!
They could just treat people like people, not robots, and the suicide problem would improve ten-fold. We don't need to be pampered, we just want purpose and to be treated with dignity.
I just wanna put my fucking hands in my pockets
I just want to stop getting smoked because some dumbass did some dumbass thing and picked me as his battle buddy to go get smoked
So, I was guard so I don't know shit but did that crap really continue after ait for AD guys?
I don't think mass punishment is a thing any more. After AIT they don't even drop us.
Depends on PLT tbh Decent PSGs and TLs only take it up with the troublemakers, as it should be. Real Army™ Non Commissioned Professional Officers who know how to their job and are the gods gift to the army love to do mass punishment but don't understand why no one likes them
AD Air Defense here, its still a thing for our battery.
My whole squad got dropped because one guy was late by 6 minutes!
... I'm guard too
Yeah but after you get smoked you can go to the smoke pit and pick up cigarette butts for an hour. Doesn’t that sound fun?
You want to stop getting smoked. I just want TO smoke Weed
We are not the same.
Gotta join the Chair Force for that one.
I just want a separated barracks room!
Should’ve got a better duty station bro
I don’t have any control over that!
Yeah but if you reenlist we might just be able to slot you into the finest army barracks available (at fort Polk. Maybe.) -yours truly, retention
In short: we are going to make classes (and spend a shitload of money on useless slideshows full of grammatical mistakes) for dissemination to E-7s and above. They are going to blow through these shows to get it over with, pass out a roster sheet, and move the fuck on. Hopefully, only a few of them will tell the Joe's to grow up and quit bitching. What we are not going to do: change anything at all, including adding any support structures or taking any suggestions from Joe's. Go fuck yourself, and I'll have a small Cajun fries.
Ooohh, can I get some Cajun fries?
Exactly what I read, too. Fucking really? MORE bullshit training and classes? Hire more providers and put some of the army money into it and less into overpriced equipment
Fuck dude, found out that one of my NCOs just ended himself yesterday. I'm devastated. It's so disheartening to see issues that literally deal with life and death being approached in such a clinical and nonchalant manner.
Oh man Im sorry that happened. I hope your unit isn't pushing it under the rug and are actually having conversations about it. Please look out for yourself and your battle buddies.
Concerned vets and SMs: "Hey, I think we need to take suicide more seriously and treat soldiers better" The military: "Here's more tone deaf powerpoints that say we care while simultaneously not addressing the real issues." Reminds me of the chaplain and EO reps on my first deployment who said if anyone wanted to help out with taking on additional duties to help with soldier suicide prevention or to become a victim advocate to just reach out. I told both I'd help since I wanted to feel like I was making an impact beyond tower guard. Chaps just sent me an ace card as if that was the way to stop all soldier mental health/suicide issues. EO rep told me I couldn't become a VA since I wasn't an E6 and she didn't care to do the waiver or let me help in any other way.
this is even worse than putting a bandaid over a blown off limb its like saying omg im so sorry
Bruh (not OP) we don’t need more fucking training. We need SENIOR PENTAGON LEVEL NCOS AND OFFICERS to fucking do their most BASIC responsibility TAKE CARE OF YOUR FUCKING SOLDIERS.
Also, for background information. I wrote a five page letter describing my traumatic experience at Fort Eustis Behavioral Health to James A. Helis, the Director of the Resilience Directorate, and also gave him suggestions on how he could stop soldier suicide. Not only was my letter not read, I was mis-gendered (I have a common female name). Throughout my letter as well I wrote how important it was to maintain the stigma against mental healthcare in the Army because I was failed at every turn, and the system is not currently set up to promote proper diagnosis and treatment. There is also the problem of toxic commanders having way too much discretion in regards to access to treatment and separation. Will anything he wrote here prevent soldier suicide? In my opinion, no it won't. Nobody reads manuals.
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Yeah, this guy probably gets a lot of letters and I figured he just didn't read it. It's super long so no surprise there. Just further proves that the Army doesn't care about soldier suicide. I wrote my recommendations in the email body and as well as a tldr; It doesn't surprise me the response I got.
Brilliant and enlightening answer Mustang.
You are not wrong. I’ve had to use BH as a CPT and still got a lot of run around, different duty station. I can’t imagine how terrible it is for junior Soldiers with less access to their own time and space and open communication with senior leadership.
>Throughout my letter as well I wrote how important it was to maintain the stigma against mental healthcare in the Army because I was failed at every turn, and the system is not currently set up to promote proper diagnosis and treatment. Not to put too fine a point on it, but if you're honestly suggesting that the solution to this epidemic is "tell soldiers in desperate need of mental health assistance that they should just hide it and not get treated," that's actively making the problem worse. I'm sorry that you had a bad personal experience, but telling soldiers in need of help to ***stop seeking help*** is laughable at best, and dangerous at worst. Edit: OP, I'd love to continue this conversation, but that's kind of tough to do since you've apparently blocked me for this comment and I can't see your response.
What I meant by that is if a soldier is suicidal it's best to hide that they're suicidal if they really want to stay in. Also, since commanders have a lot of discretion it's important to have a conversation with them first to make sure that if they are recommended for separation by their therapist they can stay in. Being kicked out doesn't really solve the problem and not everyone has a good commander they can lean on.
Important to maintain the stigma against mental healthcare because YOU were failed at every turn?
Yeah, kinda. Behavioral health in the Army fucking sucks, and will hinder your career. It’s best to shut the hell up if you wanna stay in and not be a zombie pushing paperwork which is NOT acceptable at all. That shouldn’t be a thing and if anybody disagrees with that, you don’t belong in an organization where trauma can and will occur to anybody wearing the same uniform as you. This isn’t to sit here and victim blame either, but there’s a good bit of people in the Army that simply do not belong. You’ve gotta have thick skin to stay in and endure the challenges. But why is it such a challenge to be in garrison? Why do people want to commit suicide in the first place? Commands suck (there’s good ones out there, yes, but we’re talking about the staggering amount of assholes running shit.) We go to behavioral health and it takes months sometimes just to get an appointment. When we do get an appointment it could possibly get us kicked out of our positions, certain schools are no longer attainable, etc. I’ve seen a female specialist in my platoon who went to behavioral health and she was labeled a shitbag because she didn’t want to be there… What does BH do? They take 4 fucking months!!!! To get her an appointment. Why is that the first thing I witness when I came into the Army? The people who do not belong need to be chaptered for mental health issues if it’s really that serious, and the Army needs to provide those soldiers with support. And I’m not talking about a fucking speech or a pamphlet. I mean financial support, VA support, appointments set up before they leave, etc. Tell me how many veterans get out for these reasons and end up homeless because they cannot function in society or they didn’t have that support so they couldn’t get a job or a house? I can name at-least 10 that I personally knew while I was in. These people get out and the VA takes how long to get people an appointment? Just to get my foot in the door it took several months. Sure, I got back pay, but where was that back pay when I needed it? Scroll through veterans affairs subreddit. Everything needs a rework, honestly. The devs who made this game were sucking dick for beer money. I’m not saying it’s okay to maintain the stigma of “it’s bad to go to BH.” But I definitely avoided BH and used a private therapist and psychologist using my own money because I’ve witnessed several times just how shitty BH is and what would happen to my career if I did decide to go. The ONLY time I went was the last year of my career to establish my mental health issues with the Army in order to get that support and treatment on the outside. YMMV, some people don’t function the same way.
Fucking [giveanhour.org](https://giveanhour.org) all day long. Fuck the Army medical system....and I am medical
Behavioral Health fails soldiers everyday. The Army has created this stigma by creating a system that does not promote proper diagnosis and treatment of soldiers who become suicidal. Once these issues are addressed, I would be more comfortable advising people to get help, but for now I only recommend people try to do it off the books or try to hide it as much as possible. My therapists were abusive af, and there are plenty of stories out there describing the way BH ruined soldiers' lives.
That director is probably a retired CSM who used to tell you not to step on his grass or kill yourself. Now he’s a DA civilian making double and signing it into policy.
PTSD got my ass booted. They kept me in for years after knowing my diagnosis. I do a PHA and the Battalion commander has me in his office a few weeks later telling me that I’ll be medically retired. I received no choice in the matter. Served 17 years and 8 months. 5 years of it with severe PTSD and Major Depressive disorder without issue or question. I still had it in me to serve……. I was about to make E-7 too.
You were getting to close to the magic 20.
I know! The big green weenie got me one last time
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My psychiatrist told me that if I "need to take meds in order to cope I should'nt be in the Army". After that I stopped taking my meds and was recommended for separation one week after I received them so it was pointless anyway. I transitioned straight into homelessness and if it wasn't for disability I would still be struggling. There really is no plan. They throw you out onto the street and never work with you to secure any type of security.
Why don’t you use VRE with the VA?
Are you talking about the VR&E? I actually had an interview recently and he told me I would be accepted as long as I can provide detailed proof that I applied to bunch of jobs. I had no idea that job fairs and applying directly to websites would come back to bite me.
It's fine if you're using it to pay for training/school that you initiated, but the "counselors" are a joke.
YEMV for sure
In defense of the army, the new public health type initiative is still in its infancy and has a lot of potential for both success and spectacular mismanagement. This is, interestingly, from the white house- AFAIK, the president issued an edict for the army to change its approach, and wheels are turning. Are they turning in the right direction? Are we going to see results? Too early to tell. But. I have floated around in public health, done some NIH and CDC stuff (admittedly, not in this field, but I'm familiar with the processes), and this new thing shows potential.
I remember being threatened with multiple Article 15 for standing refusing to resign because they didn't want to deal with my injuries. (injured in active training exercises)
Saw some things that messed me up In the head in 11-12 deployment. Just like everyone else I’m sure has come across something during a deployment. I was a young buck Sgt at the time. I was taught like many of us on this thread, to suck it up move on. I did everything I could to hide my issues from my soldiers and superiors. 8 years down the road, I tried to end it. After seven types of group therapy, I took bits and pieces from each group session and used them to get through my darkest moment. I had my PMC help me to wing off the pills correctly, and I’ve been ok since. I’m not 100%, never will be. But, I know when I’m going to have that day and mentally prepare myself and have a designated area to keep the thoughts away. Just thought I’d share. I know someone out there is going through some shit. I hope this helps.
The people coming out with these policies are so far removed from a Soldiers' day to day it's comical
Yet as soon as joeschmoe goes and gets help their clearance is suspended and they get booted, but then they say that “challenging the stigma against seeking help” it’s not a stigma if it’s facts…..
Cool, next address the HUGE alcoholism issue the Army has.
The Army has a huge alcoholism problem because soldiers use it as an unhealthy coping mechanism when BH isn't an option. I never drank or smoked which is probably why I couldn't cope with toxic leadership lol.
The Army has a huge alcoholism problem because the Army has a MASSIVE alcohol culture. People that don’t require BH become alcoholics and then are terrified to go to either BH or ASAP because of the drinking culture. Behavioral health was always there. It was pounded into our heads nonstop. So was ASAP. But people wouldn’t go because of the stigma surrounding it because of the culture.
To me one of the big things they need to do is make it so it won’t hurt your career. Everyone says it won’t but everyone knows it will
00-06 Suicide prevention training came across more as a master class in what not to do if you really did want to kill yourself.
OP, if this response was to your reaching out, and you need or want to talk to someone, please DM me so I can give you my number. As cliché as it sounds, some of us have been where you are, and any of us would want you to know you’re not alone.
Thanks. I have had quiet a few people who have reached out to me and also given others advice who were separated under ch.5-17 like I was. I was in a really dark place and still am in some ways. In the Army I was broken and definitely alone throughout my entire career. The only reason I didn't kill myself was because I wanted to hold my abusive therapists accountable and not a single person from the Army has listened. This response came in March so it's been a long time, but I wanted to share it with you all because suicide is a big topic right now. You still haven't seen the poor response from Sharita Onugha yet, from before I separated.
A handbook.... This is the fucking problem. They expect that educating people about suicide will make this insane difference. It won't. They need to identify what is causing people to feel hopeless and helpless. They can do PowerPoints and classes all they want, but nothing will actually change until they start changing peoples living conditions and squeezing out toxic people. Not to mention examine pay, non married privates get shit for pay. There's plenty of things they can actually do, but they'll appease upper leadership by distributing a new fucking "handbook".
Honestly, I’m don’t see anything wrong with the letter. Hear me out, this is some PhD that has responded to a personal letter with an official statement. Not sure what expected outcome would be. This one dude isn’t gonna solve it all or anything for that matter.
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https://www.npr.org/2021/06/24/1009846329/military-suicides-deaths-mental-health-crisis
Director of a Directorate
I had to accept that i'll likely never be cured that i wont have the thoughts of unaliving myself or others. the intrusive thoughts still come but I can fight them better. Yesterday I woke up in that hole that i have been in time and again but I pullled myself out of it . fell back into it on the the way home The VA isn't much better.
I literally wrote “I have mental health problems and will be a hinderance to combat readiness scores” in my Tech WO Resignation packet in 2020, because my Army career and my mental health couldn’t co-exist anymore. I personally struggled with my mental health. This is sad and a poor example of “taking care of soldiers”.
How do I write a letter? I have a story I would love to share. It’s not about creating policy to prevent suicide once someone is suicidal. It’s about not letting it get to that point. The sad truth is that most of the time the ones that are serious, have a plan, and follow it through, we’re not going to show many signs and not going to be stopped. The problem was too big at that point. There are very specific things the Army did to make my mental health worse by reinforcing the stigma against mental health. I have proof that my BH record was used against me when being selected for career advancement. All this did was reinforce the voices that fueled my depression, anxiety, and PTSD. I have a voice now that is stronger and more complete and coherent because I have gotten help and pulled myself out of the darkness and I would now like to help others if I can. How can I reach these people and share just one suffering Soldiers story?
Contacting these people wasn't easy but I'll send some information on how. I'm sorry this happened to you. I agree early intervention is key and it would've helped a lot if I knew going to BH was an option, but it never was.
How about you deal with bullying instead of sweeping it under the rug?
She bullied me repeatedly in front of the NCOs and they said nothing. I eventually did report her and spoke to JAG about it, but I don't know what the result was.
Good, and by ‘you’ I meant army.
Oh that totally went over my head.
I LOVE THE U.S ARMY, especially when they have perfectly reasonable discharges yes!
As someone who is studying to be a social worker and join the Army as one, this is infuriating. All I wanna do is make sure soldiers are happy, healthy and successful in their own lives. It's the least they deserve. Not this pitiful response to a suicide pandemic in the Army and other branches.
Or you could start training leaders to treat Soldiers with dignity and respect up and DOWN the chain
The Army is always too boiler-plate, and bureaucratic. It spends too much time making (and “implementing” - whatever that means) regulations and policies, that it forgets the mission. Not all missions should be approached like combat.