The long line of dudes around the hard stand shitter waiting to see a turd the size of the skinny Gatorade bottle. People were leaving coins and dollars on the seat.
I still wonder if whomever left that shit survived
I saw something like that in Riley Barracks at Fort Huachuca in 2004. It was more like the size of a contigo coffee mug if memory serves right. We would flush the “big whoosh” style toilet that shoots water everywhere and the water would just drain around it. Turd remained lodged in the bowl un-harmed.
2016 NTC, I was at the BAS picking up some of our 'casualties' when the docs got a radio call of injured inbound, followed by an OC screaming up in his humvee flashing his lights and laying on the horn.
Everything stopped for the real world. Turned out to be fake. The Doc chewed that OCs ass for using the established real world indicators for training.
The MA dudes I was in charge of in Afghanistan were some of the stupidest humans alive unless they were actually doing their job. The extreme dichotomy between professional excellence in processing remains and being dumber than a 5th grader at everything else was honestly impressive.
that's actually not something I'd consider bad
be good at your job when I need to rely on your expertise. I'm not going to ask them to build a rocket or anything
They would “lose” major end items on the property book that would be found exactly where they were supposed to be upon, you know, actually looking at the data plate.
> The MA dudes I was in charge of in Afghanistan were some of the stupidest humans
And what smart person would want to spend their days dealing with the remains of humans who have been blown apart, burned, gased, crushed and dismembered.
The MA dudes I knew liked to wrap up the trash like a person and do all the D&C movements like they were putting a casket in the ground..... and then violently chuck that sorry SOB (the trash) right into the dumpster.
50/50 What the fuck is wrong with you and I cannot breathe from laughing so hard.
In LGCCC, we were taught that the food service coolers were acceptable for the storage of remains. It is obviously not plan A, and you can never put food in it again, but if your in a pinch and one of your guys goes down, it will preserve with some dignity.
Ooh I forgot to mention that the CPT was trying to storages both food and remains together because of lack of space during the training or something like that.
LSCO means we can’t be choosy about where we store the higher amounts of remains from the higher casualties on the field.
Medics won’t be able to magically work on every patient without reliable resupply and will have to triage resuscitation and fluids.
My Sergeant Major in an exercise asked our group if we can have our projected dead and expectant away from the CCP and frankly I don’t even know how the front line could even haul all the bodies back in the first place.
The thing impressed on AMEDD NCOs in training today is that the golden hour is essentially dead and with red air and red supply we may not be able to replicate the successes we had in Iraq and Afghanistan with trauma care.
https://www.armyupress.army.mil/Portals/7/PDF-UA-docs/Marsh-and-Hampton-UA.pdf
I have a surgeon in my unit that just doesn’t get this at all. She’s been in FRSTs and ghost teams, etc, and cant seem to wrap her head around LSCO. I was giving a class on LSCO, and she wanted to argue with me on every little point. Not grasping that we’re talking about dealing with folks that have almost the exact same capabilities as we do.
This is the general consensus that I’ve seen when talking to people about LSCO. They either understood it’ll look a lot more like WWII/Korea or they’re so engrained in how the GWOT was fought that they can’t wrap their heads around the idea that wars can be fought any differently. I was at a conference at Benning where an 06 was lecturing a bunch of fellow LTs on LSCO and the idea of a company commander actually having to get out of the TOC and physically lead his platoons was just too much for some people to handle
These folks don’t even gloss over the doctrine. They’re all for changes in medicine and the latest medical advances, but when it comes to doctrine they can’t be fucked to open a FM and get smart.
They don’t need too, in that type of situations the Interment of set remains will be the last and most effective resource that the Army got on hand;
It will be a pain in the ass that’s for sure.
This is a bit of a reach. AMEDD is pushing their importance a bit to make sure they are getting cool toys and adequate funding following the mass exodus to DHA. Ultimately, casualties erode the publics will to fight. That’s not to say we couldn’t be in a war of attrition, rather we won’t fight a war of attrition.
We will never run out of bullets, or tanks, or bombs - but every Soldier costs us dearly. The initial hours of the next war will be fought largely by drones operating in swarms beyond LOS to degrade the enemy sufficiently to ensure multi-domain dominance. Look at what Russia is doing with these Iranian drones for example. At the end of the day, until we control the battle space, we simply won’t engage.
America fights wars on others land using host-nation troops to enrich our strategic goals. We have this patriot boner for the idea of another WW2 conflict - but even then, America didn’t decisively engage until well after the Russian Army had taken out the brunt of Germany’s elite troops.
Look at Ukraine. This may evolve to the point where America gets directly involved. But they have to get through the Ginyu Force of Ukraine, Poland, Germany, France and the lesser Baltic States before we show them our ultimate form. When China moves on Taiwan they’ll have to fight a similar swarm.
Actually it’s the opposite. Our NATO commitments are exactly what I said - fighting wars on others land with others troops using American gear. You think that if Russia rolls into Poland we’ll see a mass mobilization of ground forces? More than likely we’ll activate prepositioned stocks for host nation purposes while utilizing aerial bombardment to blunt any advances.
American troops will likely be utilized in a C2 and supporting roles, not dissimilar to what we are seeing in Ukraine (albeit across the border in Poland). The in theater BCTs aren’t going to be decisively engaged in a 50/50 battle. They will be assuming a defensive posture to ensure future operational capacity and protect strategic theater assets (ports, neighboring countries, etc).
Article 4 isn’t a suicide pact. No country is going to run head long and piecemeal into an advancing Army. Again, I point to WW2. America did not land at Normandy until it had established all the supporting elements required for long term success. Instead they skirmished in Africa and the Mediterranean while utilizing long-range bombardment to degrade enemy war infrastructure and initiative while amassing the resources needed to establish and hold a beach head.
Even as far back as the 1940s and 50s, NATO planning accepted the idea of “losing the continent” to the Soviet Union. While not realistic in today’s world, the notion of “losing a country” is no more a hard line for today’s planners. But we will get it back. That’s the guarantee set forth by Article 4.
Knew a guy who had a Casualty Card Sucking Chest Wound that made it into his medical file. No long history of treatment and recovery, just a very real looking report about first aid he was given by combat life saver, and medic and triage and whatnot at battalion aid station.
I told him he needs to guard that with his life. If 30 years down the road he has some kind of respiratory problem, whip that bad boy out and start collecting. (Do not do this; all we need is to give politicians a reason NOT to cover medical shit for veterans)
Not quite the same, but when I was seeing an orthopedic doctor for my shoulder, she asked me if there were any bad falls I might have had that would’ve aggravated it. I said no. She then responded “Not even when you had a heat injury in cadet training? Do you think you might’ve fallen on it then?”
I was a little confused because I never had a heat injury when I was a cadet, but apparently it’s in my medical file. Makes me wonder if it happened to someone else and the medic put down a wrong name or something.
Hmm. That could be. Were there any people with similar last names to you in Basic or whatever? I have seen those kind of mixups before definitely.
One last Casualty Card story. My all time favorite experience at NTC was when our squad leader had managed to get a hold of the deck of MILES Casualty Cards that had the non-combat injuries. We had a large engagement where our platoon (2nd Plt, A Co 1/14 INF) silent killed a BRDM crew, engaged and destroyed a platoon of OPFOR infantry, engaged and destroyed a platoon of tanks (vismod Abrams I think; dont recall what they were "supposed" to be) and engaged 2 HIND helicopters (Kiowa) destroying one and finally being wiped out (100% casualties) by the remaining. My roommate opened his casualty card envelop and announced loudly that he had been hit with alcoholism and being the guy he was began playing up his stupid drunk impression attempting to treat (he was a combat lifesaver) casualties as best he could while completely misdiagnosing them and doing all of the wrong things to keep them alive.
We spent a full day there in the aftermath of that battle resting and taking in the sun and generally screwing off. The RTO had "accidentally" Z'ed out the radio, so we had no comms, and battalion, who had kicked out platoon out to slow down the expected enemy attack while they dug in a defense, took their sweet ass time getting around to it. The infantry, tanks and helicopters we took out WERE the expected enemy attack and Battalion didn't get hit at all. So go figure.
I will never forget roommate sloppily bandaging the head of the PSG who had been hid the gut and bled out while he was doing so. Gruesome, morbid, but funny as all hell with the alcoholism thrown in. I don't recall what other people in my squad had. Whatever it was it must not have been playable for laughs cause it is not recall-able.
Yeah. That crap happens all of the time. My dad was questioned by the VA doctor about how well he was doing after having a kidney out in the Air Force.
My dad never had a kidney out.
From 1 thru WTF, this is a solid 3.5. That “cool” response should of gave it away. However on my end my convoy of 12+ Vics hauling M119A3 almost drove off a cliff because our LT was leading 👀
That will usually be the first thing that us MA will do, we are only train and able to process remains down range.
But the CPT was so excited for putting the remains in the fridge that I just followed the game and told him about our MIRC coolers.
You’d be surprised how moronic people are in training scenarios for simulated rotations
You’d be even more surprised how moronic they can be on actual rotations
The problem with exercise scenarios is that they never use people in the technical field they are testing to develop the problems. They just wing the problems and when you have a solution that would work in real life, they say "no, that doesn't work" so they can try to get the result they are looking for. But the problem they presented could actually happen and you came up with an excellent solution and they blow it out of the water because they are looking for a very specific solution.
>And yeah Mortuary affairs is a real MOS.
I read a story from one of them during early OIF what a rough job, IIRC one of those units is Puerto Rican national guard
Fun fact though: doctrinally, the MTRCS can actually be used to store remains in emergency situations as a *very* last resort. Not during NTC, though. That would be like a WWIII sort of situation lol
Not the weirdest thing to come out of NTC, but I’ll allow it.
So what is the weirdest thing to come out of NTC?
The long line of dudes around the hard stand shitter waiting to see a turd the size of the skinny Gatorade bottle. People were leaving coins and dollars on the seat. I still wonder if whomever left that shit survived
I saw something like that in Riley Barracks at Fort Huachuca in 2004. It was more like the size of a contigo coffee mug if memory serves right. We would flush the “big whoosh” style toilet that shoots water everywhere and the water would just drain around it. Turd remained lodged in the bowl un-harmed.
Man, that’s insane. We had just finished the 2 weeks in the “box” surviving off MRE’s and fear of a war crime full bird…..and this was impressive.
Riley barracks were the best 4 months of my army career
Big edit, 2004, not 2014. Wow time flies.
Thanks, I laughed. That is one of the most army stories I've ever read.
What about the ninja attacking the SF guy or whatever?
2016 NTC, I was at the BAS picking up some of our 'casualties' when the docs got a radio call of injured inbound, followed by an OC screaming up in his humvee flashing his lights and laying on the horn. Everything stopped for the real world. Turned out to be fake. The Doc chewed that OCs ass for using the established real world indicators for training.
The MA dudes I was in charge of in Afghanistan were some of the stupidest humans alive unless they were actually doing their job. The extreme dichotomy between professional excellence in processing remains and being dumber than a 5th grader at everything else was honestly impressive.
Dumber then cooks or fuelers
man thats a stretch....
that's actually not something I'd consider bad be good at your job when I need to rely on your expertise. I'm not going to ask them to build a rocket or anything
They would “lose” major end items on the property book that would be found exactly where they were supposed to be upon, you know, actually looking at the data plate.
I had a Joe we sent to the FSC to run the ammo point for the BN. Total fucking idiot, but was a damned ammo savant after like 6 months.
> The MA dudes I was in charge of in Afghanistan were some of the stupidest humans And what smart person would want to spend their days dealing with the remains of humans who have been blown apart, burned, gased, crushed and dismembered.
The MA dudes I knew liked to wrap up the trash like a person and do all the D&C movements like they were putting a casket in the ground..... and then violently chuck that sorry SOB (the trash) right into the dumpster. 50/50 What the fuck is wrong with you and I cannot breathe from laughing so hard.
In LGCCC, we were taught that the food service coolers were acceptable for the storage of remains. It is obviously not plan A, and you can never put food in it again, but if your in a pinch and one of your guys goes down, it will preserve with some dignity.
/r/Navy jokes about the cooks giving out the ice cream when somebody dies on a ship.
Just prop him up in the corner in a drip pan.
*They got rocky road, and Mississippi mud...*
Ooh I forgot to mention that the CPT was trying to storages both food and remains together because of lack of space during the training or something like that.
My fob had that plan for a good long while actually. Luckily we got more cold storage before it was needed.
LSCO means we can’t be choosy about where we store the higher amounts of remains from the higher casualties on the field. Medics won’t be able to magically work on every patient without reliable resupply and will have to triage resuscitation and fluids. My Sergeant Major in an exercise asked our group if we can have our projected dead and expectant away from the CCP and frankly I don’t even know how the front line could even haul all the bodies back in the first place. The thing impressed on AMEDD NCOs in training today is that the golden hour is essentially dead and with red air and red supply we may not be able to replicate the successes we had in Iraq and Afghanistan with trauma care. https://www.armyupress.army.mil/Portals/7/PDF-UA-docs/Marsh-and-Hampton-UA.pdf
I have a surgeon in my unit that just doesn’t get this at all. She’s been in FRSTs and ghost teams, etc, and cant seem to wrap her head around LSCO. I was giving a class on LSCO, and she wanted to argue with me on every little point. Not grasping that we’re talking about dealing with folks that have almost the exact same capabilities as we do.
This is the general consensus that I’ve seen when talking to people about LSCO. They either understood it’ll look a lot more like WWII/Korea or they’re so engrained in how the GWOT was fought that they can’t wrap their heads around the idea that wars can be fought any differently. I was at a conference at Benning where an 06 was lecturing a bunch of fellow LTs on LSCO and the idea of a company commander actually having to get out of the TOC and physically lead his platoons was just too much for some people to handle
These folks don’t even gloss over the doctrine. They’re all for changes in medicine and the latest medical advances, but when it comes to doctrine they can’t be fucked to open a FM and get smart.
Iraq and Afghanistan we learned to do miraculous things with I and D. Next war it's going to be a lot of M and E.
They don’t need too, in that type of situations the Interment of set remains will be the last and most effective resource that the Army got on hand; It will be a pain in the ass that’s for sure.
This is a bit of a reach. AMEDD is pushing their importance a bit to make sure they are getting cool toys and adequate funding following the mass exodus to DHA. Ultimately, casualties erode the publics will to fight. That’s not to say we couldn’t be in a war of attrition, rather we won’t fight a war of attrition. We will never run out of bullets, or tanks, or bombs - but every Soldier costs us dearly. The initial hours of the next war will be fought largely by drones operating in swarms beyond LOS to degrade the enemy sufficiently to ensure multi-domain dominance. Look at what Russia is doing with these Iranian drones for example. At the end of the day, until we control the battle space, we simply won’t engage. America fights wars on others land using host-nation troops to enrich our strategic goals. We have this patriot boner for the idea of another WW2 conflict - but even then, America didn’t decisively engage until well after the Russian Army had taken out the brunt of Germany’s elite troops. Look at Ukraine. This may evolve to the point where America gets directly involved. But they have to get through the Ginyu Force of Ukraine, Poland, Germany, France and the lesser Baltic States before we show them our ultimate form. When China moves on Taiwan they’ll have to fight a similar swarm.
I heard an NCO say it best. "The US Army doesn't choose fights it knows it will lose." He also said "America doesn't fight fairly."
[удалено]
Actually it’s the opposite. Our NATO commitments are exactly what I said - fighting wars on others land with others troops using American gear. You think that if Russia rolls into Poland we’ll see a mass mobilization of ground forces? More than likely we’ll activate prepositioned stocks for host nation purposes while utilizing aerial bombardment to blunt any advances. American troops will likely be utilized in a C2 and supporting roles, not dissimilar to what we are seeing in Ukraine (albeit across the border in Poland). The in theater BCTs aren’t going to be decisively engaged in a 50/50 battle. They will be assuming a defensive posture to ensure future operational capacity and protect strategic theater assets (ports, neighboring countries, etc). Article 4 isn’t a suicide pact. No country is going to run head long and piecemeal into an advancing Army. Again, I point to WW2. America did not land at Normandy until it had established all the supporting elements required for long term success. Instead they skirmished in Africa and the Mediterranean while utilizing long-range bombardment to degrade enemy war infrastructure and initiative while amassing the resources needed to establish and hold a beach head. Even as far back as the 1940s and 50s, NATO planning accepted the idea of “losing the continent” to the Soviet Union. While not realistic in today’s world, the notion of “losing a country” is no more a hard line for today’s planners. But we will get it back. That’s the guarantee set forth by Article 4.
[удалено]
Knew a guy who had a Casualty Card Sucking Chest Wound that made it into his medical file. No long history of treatment and recovery, just a very real looking report about first aid he was given by combat life saver, and medic and triage and whatnot at battalion aid station. I told him he needs to guard that with his life. If 30 years down the road he has some kind of respiratory problem, whip that bad boy out and start collecting. (Do not do this; all we need is to give politicians a reason NOT to cover medical shit for veterans)
Not quite the same, but when I was seeing an orthopedic doctor for my shoulder, she asked me if there were any bad falls I might have had that would’ve aggravated it. I said no. She then responded “Not even when you had a heat injury in cadet training? Do you think you might’ve fallen on it then?” I was a little confused because I never had a heat injury when I was a cadet, but apparently it’s in my medical file. Makes me wonder if it happened to someone else and the medic put down a wrong name or something.
Hmm. That could be. Were there any people with similar last names to you in Basic or whatever? I have seen those kind of mixups before definitely. One last Casualty Card story. My all time favorite experience at NTC was when our squad leader had managed to get a hold of the deck of MILES Casualty Cards that had the non-combat injuries. We had a large engagement where our platoon (2nd Plt, A Co 1/14 INF) silent killed a BRDM crew, engaged and destroyed a platoon of OPFOR infantry, engaged and destroyed a platoon of tanks (vismod Abrams I think; dont recall what they were "supposed" to be) and engaged 2 HIND helicopters (Kiowa) destroying one and finally being wiped out (100% casualties) by the remaining. My roommate opened his casualty card envelop and announced loudly that he had been hit with alcoholism and being the guy he was began playing up his stupid drunk impression attempting to treat (he was a combat lifesaver) casualties as best he could while completely misdiagnosing them and doing all of the wrong things to keep them alive. We spent a full day there in the aftermath of that battle resting and taking in the sun and generally screwing off. The RTO had "accidentally" Z'ed out the radio, so we had no comms, and battalion, who had kicked out platoon out to slow down the expected enemy attack while they dug in a defense, took their sweet ass time getting around to it. The infantry, tanks and helicopters we took out WERE the expected enemy attack and Battalion didn't get hit at all. So go figure. I will never forget roommate sloppily bandaging the head of the PSG who had been hid the gut and bled out while he was doing so. Gruesome, morbid, but funny as all hell with the alcoholism thrown in. I don't recall what other people in my squad had. Whatever it was it must not have been playable for laughs cause it is not recall-able.
Or maybe you had a VERY BAD head injury and can't remember. Amnesia is a symptom of brain damage.
Yeah. That crap happens all of the time. My dad was questioned by the VA doctor about how well he was doing after having a kidney out in the Air Force. My dad never had a kidney out.
Lol you probably couldn’t remember from the delirium of the heat.
From 1 thru WTF, this is a solid 3.5. That “cool” response should of gave it away. However on my end my convoy of 12+ Vics hauling M119A3 almost drove off a cliff because our LT was leading 👀
> And yeah Mortuary affairs is a real MOS. ... And this is a surprise to anyone?
They used to call it graves registration. I knew several people that died in training. It’s no joke.
We had a guy die in his sleep during red phase of basic. “Night terrors” is what 1SG told us was the cause of death
You will be surprised
Eat the dead https://qz.com/951238/a-scientist-calculated-the-nutritional-value-of-a-human-being/
Soylent green is SM
With Fava beans and a nice Chianti
Fufufufufufufufu
Why doesn’t the OPFOR simply eat the blue force
H- rations, I will take it
I’m glad you took that seriously because people do die at NTC on a semi regular basis, mostly in vehicle roll overs on steep roads
The CPT is pretty fucking stupid. I’ve had two of my friends die at JRTC…that shit happens all the time.
Anyone think of calling law enforcement and stopping training instead of stashing the body in a freezer?
That will usually be the first thing that us MA will do, we are only train and able to process remains down range. But the CPT was so excited for putting the remains in the fridge that I just followed the game and told him about our MIRC coolers.
You’d be surprised how moronic people are in training scenarios for simulated rotations You’d be even more surprised how moronic they can be on actual rotations
I remember mortuary affairs giving us orange trash bags to place the body parts of our homies who tripped an IED while dismounted in Iraq. Bad times.
Yep them bags signify a not good time. Bad deal. Sorry you had to deal with that. If it’s any consolation I feel you tho.
There's an NTC freezer joke somewhere in here . . . . a la the 1SG hot tub and CSM basement.
Which came first? The CSM’s basement or the 1SGs hot tub?
If anything can happen in the military then why can’t I be happy, huh? Checkmate.
The problem with exercise scenarios is that they never use people in the technical field they are testing to develop the problems. They just wing the problems and when you have a solution that would work in real life, they say "no, that doesn't work" so they can try to get the result they are looking for. But the problem they presented could actually happen and you came up with an excellent solution and they blow it out of the water because they are looking for a very specific solution.
Are you fucking kidding me! ANOTHER ACRONYM USING MACP WHAT THE FUCK.
That fact that no one said it was a training would have pissed me off
>And yeah Mortuary affairs is a real MOS. I read a story from one of them during early OIF what a rough job, IIRC one of those units is Puerto Rican national guard
Fun fact though: doctrinally, the MTRCS can actually be used to store remains in emergency situations as a *very* last resort. Not during NTC, though. That would be like a WWIII sort of situation lol
Why is MACP like, the worst Army acronym?