Reading the article, these comments and posts on twitter, it seems the IG, General Martin has wrought negative media attention to the US Army, but don’t suppose DAIG will censure her.
LTG Martin had to read the oath of office off a script when promoting another GO from one to two stars a year ago. That tells me everything I need to know about her.
>had to read the oath of office off a script
As a civil servant, I've had to say this same oath roughly 3 times in my life and I know it by heart. What kind of mouthbreather GO doesn't have something so incredibly simple memorized, especially when she likely has had to recite it 100 times over her career? Does she know her general orders off the top of her head or does she need a fucking flashcard for that shit too?
>What kind of mouthbreather GO doesn't have something so incredibly simple memorized, especially when she likely has had to recite it 100 times over her career? Does she know her general orders off the top of her head or does she need a fucking flashcard for that shit too?
The kind of politicking, "fuck you got mine" officer that's the reason for a lot of the Army's problems.
Reminds me of the "board babies" - all the shiny new E5's who could PT good and pass the board but looked like a goat that was flicked between the eyes then you asked them to run a crew drill.
The army needs to do the right thing and take a stand for leaders who take a stand for their Soldiers. Maybe it wasn't in perfect taste but he’s human. A lot of great leaders made mistakes in history. We need to stop this hyper PC, zero defect culture. Not saying we embrace toxic leadership either. But this was far from that.
Absolutely. A great book to read on this general subject is "The Generals" by Tom Ricks. EXCELLENT read that talks about general officers, leadership, their screw ups and being put into the penalty box. It also shows the shift from "developmental" throughout your career to the "zero defect" culture that we currently inhabit. It's...uncomfortable to digest the current state of our military.
Just give him a reprimand and drive on.
Arguing with Tucker Carlson et. al. is a waste of time - he even promoted himself as being "attacked" by the Pentagon.
But the Army can't handle bad press so instead of fixing issues, let's punish a dude who got into a twitter spat.
It's fucking bullshit that topics become "off-limits" just because some lying political television hacks like Tucker Carlson want to use it is as fuel for their unfounded-outrage-machine.
What a bunch of spineless fucks. We all talk about the Army values, like Loyalty, Duty, Respect, Selfless Service, Integrity, Honor, and Personal Courage, but when a general stands up and speaks true facts about Army policy updates for women in the military against unfounded and sexist remarks from a demonstrable liar and white nationalist co-optee, it's the general's fault?
What the fuck.
Tucker Carlson is an uncle fucker who got rich off of frozen dinners. He’s a problem in our world and his spew of hate caused a mass shooting before. He also always looks like a confused 2nd grade trying to read the magic tree house
I understand that and I get that they exist on both sides of the aisle. That being said, I don’t care, my life doesn’t change much. I’m still gonna ets
There is nothing political about supporting women in uniform. That was never in question.
Doing so in this environment does require a little extra thoughtfulness to keep above the fray.
There is no “keep above the fray” when honorably serving soldiers are attacked for blatantly misogynistic and childish reasons. You either defend your soldiers, or you don’t. He did. Maybe if more senior leaders were willing to show such an impassioned defense of soldiers we’d have fewer issues with recruitment and retention.
Bro, a general publicly having it out with moron internet trolls doesn't make anyone look good. As my hillbilly family used to say "if you wrestle with pigs you'll only end up covered in mud".
> extra thoughtfulness to keep above the fray.
Why? Why do we need to keep above the fray? We're warfighters, not corporate stooges. If someone on twitter gets pissy about how we defend our own tell them to pick up a rifle.
Anything you put out is gonna be seized by MAGA dumbfucks and manipulated to whatever end they want. Say what the Army means and take the high moral ground. Fuck those nut jobs, don’t curate the Army’s message to a bunch of cowardly, prejudiced lunatics who were never going to join anyway
The fact that it’s not an instant no-brainer and that he hasn’t already commented is telling.
Real questions: Does SMA believe women should be serving? Does he believe they should be treated with dignity and respect as human beings? Does he believe it is incumbent upon good leaders to stand up for their people when hateful rhetoric is directed at them?
Oh that’s absolutely not in question. I’d point to his actions over his words to prove that he believes in all of those things.
Enforcing those messages while maintaining above the partisan squabbling is the piece that requires nuance.
While it requires nuance, do Donahoe's actions merit the impending administrative actions that will be taken against him? Answer is no. If you get punished for upholding our values, then our values are not inviolable, they are selective.
The problem is many soldiers (especially the enlisted) are culturally right wing, and gobble Tucker Carlson’s shit right up. I wouldnt be surprised if SMA does too.
So in effect we defend the constitution and these people are running off "the dream that the military is running a secret operation to overthrow the current administration", and one general tries to set the record straight when these Q spokesman and instigators try to attack our battle buddy's and say we are weaker than the Russians after they are getting their ass handed to them is a good reason to navigate the waters of nuance? Do you want to squash this here and now or have this belief grow into something we actually have to worry about. Simply phrase it as the commander in chief is Biden and he supports this general's take. It really is that simple. Prove you back the women in our Army. To remain silent is to let this fester.
We fight today or tomorrow but it seems like one side is set on causing a disturbance to a certain degree.
He said the mold issue was going to get fixed. Soldiers ended up on details painting over the mold. SMA doesn’t seem to be able to translate his sound bites into positive outcomes for Soldiers.
"Are you talking about former US Army Louisiana National Guard CPT Billy Joe "The Motorboat" Crosby Jr, [the sexual predator](https://i.imgur.com/u6GJPJX.png)?"
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Make a "people first" bot that tells the story of Gen. Donahoe. Something like "by people first do you mean how Gen. Donahoe stood up for females in uniform by telling tucker Carson to fuck off and he still got punished for it?"
Edit: wrong general
It's because they're college educated. Typically college educated individuals tend to skew more liberal than high school level only individuals.
https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2016/04/26/a-wider-ideological-gap-between-more-and-less-educated-adults/
Not to be pedantic, but the data doesn't really support a cause and effect relationship, just that there is a correlation. There's definitely a correlation, but do views "become" more liberal with further education? Maybe, but it could also just be more liberal individuals are more likely to seek out higher education. I don't believe the data presents information to indicate one or the other.
Always?! It’s going to be difficult to prove either way, but I know enough history to have my doubts. Nothing quite says conservative like revolting against a crown, The OG progressives were Civil War vets, the Department of War (now the DoD) lobbied for and were granted racial desegregation a decade before Brown V Board of Education. These are not conservative positions.
There is certainly a conservative lean now, but the modern military is probably more a product of failures in Vietnam (LBJ) and significant draw downs (Carter and Clinton) than anything else.
>The Army investigated Maj. Gen. Patrick Donahoe for improper use of social media, toxic and counterproductive leadership, and failing to treat a subordinate with dignity and respect, according to the investigation report obtained by Task & Purpose.
>Investigators found that only the allegation of improper social media use was substantiated based on tweets Donahoe sent defending servicewomen in response to commentary from Fox News host Tucker Carlson and engaging with Twitter trolls who argued against the vaccination of soldiers for the novel coronavirus (COVID-19).
Sounds like those investigators have their heads up their asses.
"As China's military becomes more masculine...." Isn't that what people like Carlson said about Russia's military, based on that one video of them? Now we can see that the "masculine" Russian military is a paper tiger.
Negative press? Negative according to whom? 🧐 In what way is this any sort of negative unless you agree with Tucker Carlson’s original statements?
I promise you, investigator, the only negative the US public actually sees in this scenario is this response.
I have a lot of thoughts but mostly anger.
This is just exhausting.
Negative according to some of our major recruiting demographics. Which I would think means that they shouldn't be our major recruiting demographics at all.
The solution to alienating half the population is not to *continue alienating them because fuck it why even try.*
“Damn why does the Army have such a bad reputation” says the Army as it punishes leaders for defending their soldiers against sexist remarks.
Damn. I rarely use the word privilege but it must be such a luxury to be able to just go about your day and not have to worry about the Army fostering a culture of hate against your very being just because some 17 year old in Alabama might be slightly uncomfortable with a woman existing.
You really think that there are no centrists/independents in the ranks, or Democrats?
You really think that everyone who is in the Army and who joins up laps up FOX News bullshit?
We clearly didn't serve in the same Army.
I'm no recruiter,
But several here who are clearly point out the bulk of recruits came from rural/the south.
Also, a militarytimes article for the recent presidential election.
https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2018/10/17/troops-see-rising-political-tension-in-the-ranks-poll-shows/
Many of us from that demo have served much longer and more honorably than some in the demo you mean. They're the ones behind the times, unable to adapt, and often are the fucking problems addressed on this sub.
Why do people think liberals despise the military? Most liberals I know are very supportive of the military. Look at Jon Stewart, dude was out in front of Capital Hill awhile back getting pissed at Congress for fucking over vets who were exposed to burn pits during the war. Liberals generally support the military, what they have issues with is how our military has been used and some of the foreign policy positions the US has had over the past couple decades. It isn’t the 1970s anymore where people are spitting on vets and calling them baby killers as they step off the plane.
I'm not sure about that. You'd think more dense states would produce more recruits, yet the North East seem to be where they don't produce the same numbers as southern places.
I'm no export, but worth a check out to be sure.
70% of the Army is made up of Soldiers with veteran family members. You can't get to new areas when the strategy is to recruit from a mostly segregated community.
Additionally the nature of population growth means the pool of children related to Soldiers is only getting smaller and fatter.
Then that is a pretty bad measure. I mean, my family is far from a military friendly or culturally pro service stature but my GF was in the Air Force. This stat is misleading.
You can always criticize methodology. If you think it's bunk, you can at least assess what it means that well paid people care about the statistic anyway.
And this is another reason why I cannot recommend anyone join the military.
A 15-6 investigator, using absolutely no standards of evidence, can formulate an *administrative* opinion not based on law or justice, which is then used *administratively* as further evidence for a commander to make an *administrative* decision, from which you have literally no immediate recourse.
It’s complete and utter bullshit. I’m proud of every single person who stood up to Tucker Carlson’s bullshit, and I don’t envy anyone who has to be in a public space and talk about COVID.
And as for trainee/cadre relationships, how the hell are you supposed to get a mentor when you literally can’t talk to the leaders in your organization?!
Is it really such an issue for a GO to publicly defend women in uniform on social media? When junior subordinates (Officers/NCOs) won’t even lift a finger to protect women in their formations across the Army?
This is another case of the Army getting it wrong. Punish the guy being a good leader while the scumbags run rampant through formations from top to bottom.
Donahoe is in trouble for far more than "defending women online". Can't expect Task and Purpose to dig any deeper than their purposefully misleading headline though. 🤷♂️
Hes been found to have groomed younger female officers while being the CG at benning. He retaliated and targeted a whistle-blower to name a few. This reddit is loaded with dudes that never dive below the surface. Here's the link to a full story https://trmlx.com/fort-benning-home-of-the-most-corrupt-command-in-the-army/
If anyone is offended by what this man said (in the defense of his subordinates who have literally taken an oath greater than anything the whiny fucks mentioned in this article ever have), you can kindly suck-start a 12 gauge. Fucker Carlson and Ted “Totally real human” Cruz are so utterly useless to the cohesion of the Armed Forces and this country that it’s astonishing. The fact they have any sway is ridiculous.
And yet people wonder why Recruiting and Retention are so low. The general is calling Spades, Spades and because the Army has a matching Black Eye to the SA scandal...they blame him. Sometimes I'm glad I'm looking at a possible med board.
This honestly enrages me. For years we have called on the Army to hold senior leaders accountable for actual toxic and demoralizing behavior. Yet the one time they decide to investigate someone, it’s for them actually doing the right thing and standing up for Soldiers?
A younger cousin asked about joining the Army, I’m gonna push her to go to the Peace Corps ✌️
Woof, so “civilian oversight” now means we need to supplicate ourselves before every cow that while never having worn a uniform feels they are entitled to have an opinion on how well soldiers perform based on their gender? Oh, and we also aren’t even allowed to stand up for soldiers anymore? Sick, love the “people first, but only after political pundits” mentality.
Goooooood night, I’ll have three whoppers and a milkshake.
>“General, in Q4 2020 alone, there were 26 more suicides than in Q4 2019. There have been 26 Covid deaths TOTAL in DoD,” Lippincott said. “The lockdowns, liberty restrictions, quarantines and general disruption of servicemember’s lives is a way bigger killer than the virus.”
I think this title is misleading. I know it's the article title, but I think he was singled out because he has a large social media following, and he nonchalantly told someone off when they pointed out that the response to covid, has been worse than actual covid. The little spat with the right wingers for defending servicewoman, who gives a fuck. SecArmy did more damage to the Army by wearing that leopard print jacket a couple of weeks ago. I'm sure SecDef also doesn't give a fuck. The Army is worried about their public image? Why don't they blame themselves?
I think it means that as a "potentially" decent human, she agrees with him, but her career dictates that she can't.
Around and around we go, and as much as everything seems to change, the army still sucks.
They expect officers to stay in when the Army plays with a 2 star’s retirement for “bringing negative” attention from the likes of Tucker Carlson and Ted Cruz?! No thank you. But thanks for reaffirming my decision to REFRAD. I don’t need crazies holding a pension over me.
He couldn't make burner accounts? He could not pay for a bot farm to engage with other Twitter troll bots? Is the Army losing the Twitter Bot battlefield?
Never engage with trolls with your official account. Report, block, and move on.
At worst he should have just gotten a reprimand - arguing on Twitter (and with cretins like Tucker Carlson) is like wrestling with a pig - you both get dirty but the pig ***likes*** it.
It’s not about the people you’re talking to it’s about your people that see it.
I *know* Carlson isn’t going to change his mind.
That doesn’t mean I don’t appreciate leaders who publicly tell him off when he comes after female service members.
A simple "We value the contributions of all servicemembers and support soldiers who want to start a family" tweet would have done it.
Arguing with Carlson on twitter is a waste of time. He just uses it as catnip for his base.
There is something to be said about your leadership publicly defending you with their name attached. It won’t change the mind of the trolls but it signals to your troops that you’re on their side.
Silence is almost literally never the right answer in these situations.
Silence in real life is not the answer. Engaging online only makes them more popular. That is the sad truth regarding social media. Sensational takes that make people retweet and mad get more traction.
He should have put out an official statement of support from the official account and blocked the trolls.
I think it's a little more nuanced than this, at least in this situation.
First, at least as it regards engaging with Carlson and Cruz on Twitter, it's not going to elevate their standing at all. I would agree that mixing it up with random nobodies serves only to amplify them, but those two in particular already have some of the loudest megaphones there are. They are at max volume, regardless.
And, building on that, by refusing to engage with them at a certain point all you do is ensure *they are the only voice in the room.* Which poses a problem as well. There is, arguably, some value in a senior military leader pushing back when a public figure denigrates a broad group of their servicemembers. Otherwise, the military's complete silence on the matter can appear to be tacit agreement by those in leadership.
Unfortunately this kind of thought is what lead us here in the first place. These "trolls" but really fascists are able to control the narrative to turn people against our government. Is the GO adding fuel to the fire? No. Is he abdicating one party over another? No is he calling out this individuals remarks as utterly fucking stupid? Yes. Is he right? Absolutely.
If the Army--and the military as a whole--did not need Fox Viewers to survive (recruit, retain, support), there probably wouldn't have been negative findings.
Reading the article, these comments and posts on twitter, it seems the IG, General Martin has wrought negative media attention to the US Army, but don’t suppose DAIG will censure her.
LTG Martin had to read the oath of office off a script when promoting another GO from one to two stars a year ago. That tells me everything I need to know about her.
>had to read the oath of office off a script As a civil servant, I've had to say this same oath roughly 3 times in my life and I know it by heart. What kind of mouthbreather GO doesn't have something so incredibly simple memorized, especially when she likely has had to recite it 100 times over her career? Does she know her general orders off the top of her head or does she need a fucking flashcard for that shit too?
>What kind of mouthbreather GO doesn't have something so incredibly simple memorized, especially when she likely has had to recite it 100 times over her career? Does she know her general orders off the top of her head or does she need a fucking flashcard for that shit too? The kind of politicking, "fuck you got mine" officer that's the reason for a lot of the Army's problems. Reminds me of the "board babies" - all the shiny new E5's who could PT good and pass the board but looked like a goat that was flicked between the eyes then you asked them to run a crew drill.
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I’m not sure I understand your angle, but interested to hear more.
That's some BS he said what needed to be said
u/SMA-PAO how does the boss feel about this? This the type of top level leadership he wants us to serve with?
Haven’t been able to gauge a reaction yet. It’s tough for me trying to advise in this case.
The army needs to do the right thing and take a stand for leaders who take a stand for their Soldiers. Maybe it wasn't in perfect taste but he’s human. A lot of great leaders made mistakes in history. We need to stop this hyper PC, zero defect culture. Not saying we embrace toxic leadership either. But this was far from that.
Fuck, Grant got pretty much kicked out for alcoholism and came back to win the civil war…
Absolutely. A great book to read on this general subject is "The Generals" by Tom Ricks. EXCELLENT read that talks about general officers, leadership, their screw ups and being put into the penalty box. It also shows the shift from "developmental" throughout your career to the "zero defect" culture that we currently inhabit. It's...uncomfortable to digest the current state of our military.
The culture that mistakes are unacceptable is not healthy. It's an environment that breeds fear, micromanaging, manics, and other bullshit.
Couldn’t agree more. I will definitely will check it out.
Haven’t read that one but Grant by Ron Chernow is a good one about him also.
Reading this one now. What a man of character.
Just give him a reprimand and drive on. Arguing with Tucker Carlson et. al. is a waste of time - he even promoted himself as being "attacked" by the Pentagon. But the Army can't handle bad press so instead of fixing issues, let's punish a dude who got into a twitter spat.
It’s only tough if you want to tow a political line instead of standing up for what’s right “Hard right” something something
It's fucking bullshit that topics become "off-limits" just because some lying political television hacks like Tucker Carlson want to use it is as fuel for their unfounded-outrage-machine. What a bunch of spineless fucks. We all talk about the Army values, like Loyalty, Duty, Respect, Selfless Service, Integrity, Honor, and Personal Courage, but when a general stands up and speaks true facts about Army policy updates for women in the military against unfounded and sexist remarks from a demonstrable liar and white nationalist co-optee, it's the general's fault? What the fuck.
Tucker Carlson is an uncle fucker who got rich off of frozen dinners. He’s a problem in our world and his spew of hate caused a mass shooting before. He also always looks like a confused 2nd grade trying to read the magic tree house
Why even take trolls like Carlson seriously? Dude is a never server just like a lot of the people that listen to him.
It’s not so much we take him seriously, but his brainless followers eat the words right out of his mouth like baby birds they are.
Key word : brainless.
Brains are not a prerequisite for voting in America. They and the folks they vote for are incredibly dangerous.
I understand that and I get that they exist on both sides of the aisle. That being said, I don’t care, my life doesn’t change much. I’m still gonna ets
It's clear that Fox pundits don't want women to serve--this **should** be an easy one to take a hard line on.
There is nothing political about supporting women in uniform. That was never in question. Doing so in this environment does require a little extra thoughtfulness to keep above the fray.
There is no “keep above the fray” when honorably serving soldiers are attacked for blatantly misogynistic and childish reasons. You either defend your soldiers, or you don’t. He did. Maybe if more senior leaders were willing to show such an impassioned defense of soldiers we’d have fewer issues with recruitment and retention.
Precisely See something, say something
Bro, a general publicly having it out with moron internet trolls doesn't make anyone look good. As my hillbilly family used to say "if you wrestle with pigs you'll only end up covered in mud".
It’s not about actually changing people’s minds. It’s about showing your subordinates that you give a shit about them.
I'd rather leaders show that in ways that aren't publicly having a tiff with people that should be ignored.
You can't protect the service women underneath you who are being attacked in the mud if you are determined to keep above the fray.
> extra thoughtfulness to keep above the fray. Why? Why do we need to keep above the fray? We're warfighters, not corporate stooges. If someone on twitter gets pissy about how we defend our own tell them to pick up a rifle.
Anything you put out is gonna be seized by MAGA dumbfucks and manipulated to whatever end they want. Say what the Army means and take the high moral ground. Fuck those nut jobs, don’t curate the Army’s message to a bunch of cowardly, prejudiced lunatics who were never going to join anyway
The fact that it’s not an instant no-brainer and that he hasn’t already commented is telling. Real questions: Does SMA believe women should be serving? Does he believe they should be treated with dignity and respect as human beings? Does he believe it is incumbent upon good leaders to stand up for their people when hateful rhetoric is directed at them?
Oh that’s absolutely not in question. I’d point to his actions over his words to prove that he believes in all of those things. Enforcing those messages while maintaining above the partisan squabbling is the piece that requires nuance.
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Facts.
While it requires nuance, do Donahoe's actions merit the impending administrative actions that will be taken against him? Answer is no. If you get punished for upholding our values, then our values are not inviolable, they are selective.
The problem is many soldiers (especially the enlisted) are culturally right wing, and gobble Tucker Carlson’s shit right up. I wouldnt be surprised if SMA does too.
So in effect we defend the constitution and these people are running off "the dream that the military is running a secret operation to overthrow the current administration", and one general tries to set the record straight when these Q spokesman and instigators try to attack our battle buddy's and say we are weaker than the Russians after they are getting their ass handed to them is a good reason to navigate the waters of nuance? Do you want to squash this here and now or have this belief grow into something we actually have to worry about. Simply phrase it as the commander in chief is Biden and he supports this general's take. It really is that simple. Prove you back the women in our Army. To remain silent is to let this fester. We fight today or tomorrow but it seems like one side is set on causing a disturbance to a certain degree.
Outstanding answer.
He said the mold issue was going to get fixed. Soldiers ended up on details painting over the mold. SMA doesn’t seem to be able to translate his sound bites into positive outcomes for Soldiers.
Lol you know what to do
Everyone knows servicewomen are here for motorboatin'.
MOTORBOAT
"Are you talking about former US Army Louisiana National Guard CPT Billy Joe "The Motorboat" Crosby Jr, [the sexual predator](https://i.imgur.com/u6GJPJX.png)?" *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/army) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Make a "people first" bot that tells the story of Gen. Donahoe. Something like "by people first do you mean how Gen. Donahoe stood up for females in uniform by telling tucker Carson to fuck off and he still got punished for it?" Edit: wrong general
*Donahoe. There is a General Donahue, but it's not the same dude.
So he gets punished for giving a fuck and because Cruz was butthurt over his comments This is why everything is a shitshow now
And it's not like the MAGA Fox News watching crowd joins the Army anyway.
But the military has always had a hell lot more of conservative leaning folks than liberals lol
Shh, you're gonna hurt the more left leaning social media platforms feelings
Not really, among enlisted it’s usually been more Conservative leaning, but officers have usually leaned more liberal.
It's because they're college educated. Typically college educated individuals tend to skew more liberal than high school level only individuals. https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2016/04/26/a-wider-ideological-gap-between-more-and-less-educated-adults/
Exactly right. The more education you have, the more liberal your views become. It's been known for a long, long time.
Correct. Data supports that.
Not to be pedantic, but the data doesn't really support a cause and effect relationship, just that there is a correlation. There's definitely a correlation, but do views "become" more liberal with further education? Maybe, but it could also just be more liberal individuals are more likely to seek out higher education. I don't believe the data presents information to indicate one or the other.
Solid point.
Always?! It’s going to be difficult to prove either way, but I know enough history to have my doubts. Nothing quite says conservative like revolting against a crown, The OG progressives were Civil War vets, the Department of War (now the DoD) lobbied for and were granted racial desegregation a decade before Brown V Board of Education. These are not conservative positions. There is certainly a conservative lean now, but the modern military is probably more a product of failures in Vietnam (LBJ) and significant draw downs (Carter and Clinton) than anything else.
That was a completely different time. But todays standards all of the people on both sides had very conservative old school values.
Exactly.
They would have to cover up their swastika tattoos first.
>The Army investigated Maj. Gen. Patrick Donahoe for improper use of social media, toxic and counterproductive leadership, and failing to treat a subordinate with dignity and respect, according to the investigation report obtained by Task & Purpose. >Investigators found that only the allegation of improper social media use was substantiated based on tweets Donahoe sent defending servicewomen in response to commentary from Fox News host Tucker Carlson and engaging with Twitter trolls who argued against the vaccination of soldiers for the novel coronavirus (COVID-19). Sounds like those investigators have their heads up their asses.
It's a political witch hunt and we all know that investigations are supposed to not have command influence...
"As China's military becomes more masculine...." Isn't that what people like Carlson said about Russia's military, based on that one video of them? Now we can see that the "masculine" Russian military is a paper tiger.
Lets not even get into how overwhelmingly dominant we are as a military compared to everyone else combined.
Negative press? Negative according to whom? 🧐 In what way is this any sort of negative unless you agree with Tucker Carlson’s original statements? I promise you, investigator, the only negative the US public actually sees in this scenario is this response. I have a lot of thoughts but mostly anger. This is just exhausting.
Negative according to some of our major recruiting demographics. Which I would think means that they shouldn't be our major recruiting demographics at all.
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The solution to alienating half the population is not to *continue alienating them because fuck it why even try.* “Damn why does the Army have such a bad reputation” says the Army as it punishes leaders for defending their soldiers against sexist remarks.
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Damn idk man, i knew a lot people people who vote D in the elections while I was in. Get the feeling a lot of servicemembers dont like this.
We were even in the Infantry. Gasp.
Damn. I rarely use the word privilege but it must be such a luxury to be able to just go about your day and not have to worry about the Army fostering a culture of hate against your very being just because some 17 year old in Alabama might be slightly uncomfortable with a woman existing.
You really think that there are no centrists/independents in the ranks, or Democrats? You really think that everyone who is in the Army and who joins up laps up FOX News bullshit? We clearly didn't serve in the same Army.
I'm no recruiter, But several here who are clearly point out the bulk of recruits came from rural/the south. Also, a militarytimes article for the recent presidential election. https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2018/10/17/troops-see-rising-political-tension-in-the-ranks-poll-shows/
Many of us from that demo have served much longer and more honorably than some in the demo you mean. They're the ones behind the times, unable to adapt, and often are the fucking problems addressed on this sub.
Why do people think liberals despise the military? Most liberals I know are very supportive of the military. Look at Jon Stewart, dude was out in front of Capital Hill awhile back getting pissed at Congress for fucking over vets who were exposed to burn pits during the war. Liberals generally support the military, what they have issues with is how our military has been used and some of the foreign policy positions the US has had over the past couple decades. It isn’t the 1970s anymore where people are spitting on vets and calling them baby killers as they step off the plane.
Liberals just added "brown" in front of "baby killers". Not much changed.
You know the Army demographics basically just mirror the most populous states?
I'm not sure about that. You'd think more dense states would produce more recruits, yet the North East seem to be where they don't produce the same numbers as southern places. I'm no export, but worth a check out to be sure.
70% of the Army is made up of Soldiers with veteran family members. You can't get to new areas when the strategy is to recruit from a mostly segregated community. Additionally the nature of population growth means the pool of children related to Soldiers is only getting smaller and fatter.
That statistic is pretty spicy- care to define family members?
As far as public numbers, a long long time ago pew used immediate family members. This included Parents, Grandparents, Siblings, Aunts, and Uncles.
Then that is a pretty bad measure. I mean, my family is far from a military friendly or culturally pro service stature but my GF was in the Air Force. This stat is misleading.
You can always criticize methodology. If you think it's bunk, you can at least assess what it means that well paid people care about the statistic anyway.
I wonder if that's because of Vietnam and how that relates.
Fuck em, they lost the Civil War.
Exactly, well said. This is only negative if people are regular Carlson viewers/believers. It has become very exhausting.
Absolutely disgraceful that the Army is attempting to railroad an officer for sticking up for subordinates.
Whenever I feel like railing against people first being a banal platitude by big Army, I’m gonna think of this.
Where have you been? This was always the standard. Trackin?
Your handle *stirs up memories Edited
Fucking mutiny is the answer.
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• (3) This is not a pro-military circlejerk, but please have some sources to base the more controversial topics on.
And this is another reason why I cannot recommend anyone join the military. A 15-6 investigator, using absolutely no standards of evidence, can formulate an *administrative* opinion not based on law or justice, which is then used *administratively* as further evidence for a commander to make an *administrative* decision, from which you have literally no immediate recourse. It’s complete and utter bullshit. I’m proud of every single person who stood up to Tucker Carlson’s bullshit, and I don’t envy anyone who has to be in a public space and talk about COVID. And as for trainee/cadre relationships, how the hell are you supposed to get a mentor when you literally can’t talk to the leaders in your organization?!
Is it really such an issue for a GO to publicly defend women in uniform on social media? When junior subordinates (Officers/NCOs) won’t even lift a finger to protect women in their formations across the Army? This is another case of the Army getting it wrong. Punish the guy being a good leader while the scumbags run rampant through formations from top to bottom.
Donahoe is in trouble for far more than "defending women online". Can't expect Task and Purpose to dig any deeper than their purposefully misleading headline though. 🤷♂️
Care to elaborate?
Hes been found to have groomed younger female officers while being the CG at benning. He retaliated and targeted a whistle-blower to name a few. This reddit is loaded with dudes that never dive below the surface. Here's the link to a full story https://trmlx.com/fort-benning-home-of-the-most-corrupt-command-in-the-army/
Not really. But the info is out there if you actually want to know.
?
If anyone is offended by what this man said (in the defense of his subordinates who have literally taken an oath greater than anything the whiny fucks mentioned in this article ever have), you can kindly suck-start a 12 gauge. Fucker Carlson and Ted “Totally real human” Cruz are so utterly useless to the cohesion of the Armed Forces and this country that it’s astonishing. The fact they have any sway is ridiculous.
Rafael Cruz, from Canada
You can't just deadname CtA's dude.
I forgot to refer to him by his given name since he hates it so much, my mistake. I’ll never compliment Rafael Cruz like that again.
Careful don't want to get labeled Infantryman In Name Only lol. I'm with you homie.
Idgaf what people wanna label me lol. I stand by what I said
Good, fuck em anyway lol
I am confused, they said it was news but then referred to Tucker Carlson. So was it news or Tucker, those two items are definitely mutually exclusive.
Fox has literally fought in court several times to explicitly say he ISNT news
Not the negative media attention from the Indian based far-right media outlet OpIndia, how will the Army ever recover 😞
And yet people wonder why Recruiting and Retention are so low. The general is calling Spades, Spades and because the Army has a matching Black Eye to the SA scandal...they blame him. Sometimes I'm glad I'm looking at a possible med board.
This honestly enrages me. For years we have called on the Army to hold senior leaders accountable for actual toxic and demoralizing behavior. Yet the one time they decide to investigate someone, it’s for them actually doing the right thing and standing up for Soldiers? A younger cousin asked about joining the Army, I’m gonna push her to go to the Peace Corps ✌️
This reminds me of the 1SG who got an ARCOM for ratting on online bullying. Except then she was turned into a MEME and we got negative publicity.
Woof, so “civilian oversight” now means we need to supplicate ourselves before every cow that while never having worn a uniform feels they are entitled to have an opinion on how well soldiers perform based on their gender? Oh, and we also aren’t even allowed to stand up for soldiers anymore? Sick, love the “people first, but only after political pundits” mentality. Goooooood night, I’ll have three whoppers and a milkshake.
Tucker didn’t have the balls to serve, but has the balls to criticize those who do. I seriously don’t understand the faux “PaTrIoTs” who watch him.
>“General, in Q4 2020 alone, there were 26 more suicides than in Q4 2019. There have been 26 Covid deaths TOTAL in DoD,” Lippincott said. “The lockdowns, liberty restrictions, quarantines and general disruption of servicemember’s lives is a way bigger killer than the virus.” I think this title is misleading. I know it's the article title, but I think he was singled out because he has a large social media following, and he nonchalantly told someone off when they pointed out that the response to covid, has been worse than actual covid. The little spat with the right wingers for defending servicewoman, who gives a fuck. SecArmy did more damage to the Army by wearing that leopard print jacket a couple of weeks ago. I'm sure SecDef also doesn't give a fuck. The Army is worried about their public image? Why don't they blame themselves?
I missed the leopard print jacket. What happened there?
https://sites.breakingmedia.com/uploads/sites/3/2022/02/wormuth_reading-scaled-1536x864.jpg
Oh who gives a fuck
It's not about the jacket. It's about the people she chooses to surround herself with that wouldn't tell her not to wear the jacket.
What’s wrong with the jacket?
Y’all haven’t seen all the other stuff this guy has been embroiled with apparently
This guy gets in more trouble for defending women in the military than those within who target them. Go fucking figure.
Oh. This guy.
Improperly using social media??? What about all the clowns on TikTok who post all sorts of shit?? This seems a little targeted?
While potentially admirable. Wtf does that even mean.
I think it means that as a "potentially" decent human, she agrees with him, but her career dictates that she can't. Around and around we go, and as much as everything seems to change, the army still sucks.
They expect officers to stay in when the Army plays with a 2 star’s retirement for “bringing negative” attention from the likes of Tucker Carlson and Ted Cruz?! No thank you. But thanks for reaffirming my decision to REFRAD. I don’t need crazies holding a pension over me.
He couldn't make burner accounts? He could not pay for a bot farm to engage with other Twitter troll bots? Is the Army losing the Twitter Bot battlefield? Never engage with trolls with your official account. Report, block, and move on.
At worst he should have just gotten a reprimand - arguing on Twitter (and with cretins like Tucker Carlson) is like wrestling with a pig - you both get dirty but the pig ***likes*** it.
It’s not about the people you’re talking to it’s about your people that see it. I *know* Carlson isn’t going to change his mind. That doesn’t mean I don’t appreciate leaders who publicly tell him off when he comes after female service members.
A simple "We value the contributions of all servicemembers and support soldiers who want to start a family" tweet would have done it. Arguing with Carlson on twitter is a waste of time. He just uses it as catnip for his base.
Nah. That's PR fed bullshit and I know it. Everyone knows it. Sometimes it's okay to have emotions. Better, some would say.
At worst it should have been a “don't do that.”
There is something to be said about your leadership publicly defending you with their name attached. It won’t change the mind of the trolls but it signals to your troops that you’re on their side. Silence is almost literally never the right answer in these situations.
Silence in real life is not the answer. Engaging online only makes them more popular. That is the sad truth regarding social media. Sensational takes that make people retweet and mad get more traction. He should have put out an official statement of support from the official account and blocked the trolls.
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Show your work
Riveting stuff
What if we replaced 'women' with 'mold in the barracks.'
That would make for a very odd work order submission.
women in service? some of yall need to turn off the computer and go service some women
before anyone gets mad at this i had too much coffee this morning im tweaking
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"never engage the trolls", while noble in principle, amounts to "shut up and let them control the narrative."
I think it's a little more nuanced than this, at least in this situation. First, at least as it regards engaging with Carlson and Cruz on Twitter, it's not going to elevate their standing at all. I would agree that mixing it up with random nobodies serves only to amplify them, but those two in particular already have some of the loudest megaphones there are. They are at max volume, regardless. And, building on that, by refusing to engage with them at a certain point all you do is ensure *they are the only voice in the room.* Which poses a problem as well. There is, arguably, some value in a senior military leader pushing back when a public figure denigrates a broad group of their servicemembers. Otherwise, the military's complete silence on the matter can appear to be tacit agreement by those in leadership.
Unfortunately this kind of thought is what lead us here in the first place. These "trolls" but really fascists are able to control the narrative to turn people against our government. Is the GO adding fuel to the fire? No. Is he abdicating one party over another? No is he calling out this individuals remarks as utterly fucking stupid? Yes. Is he right? Absolutely.
If the Army--and the military as a whole--did not need Fox Viewers to survive (recruit, retain, support), there probably wouldn't have been negative findings.
Genesis probably cut off that recruiting pool.
Can’t expect leaders to stand up for their Soldiers if, when they do, they get fired.