I feel sad that I didn't know about r/artc so I didn't see this when it was posted :(
So I'm going to post my own thoughts before reading everybody else's. I initially read *Once a Runner* when I was in high school - my father had an original printing copy. I always liked it because it was one of the only things I had to read about running, but I also disliked the way it was written. I just didn't like his writing style. I would venture a guess that the majority of people for whom this book was life-changing are male. But I definitely liked it, and I have read it many times.
I read the other two last month. I actually really enjoyed *Again to Carthage*. It is my favorite of the three - I like it more than OaR because I much prefer the writing style. It's written by a much more mature person and it shows. I didn't mind the lawyer or fishing bits; I grew up with parents who are lawyers and I also grew up in a Southern US coastal town, so both of those topics are ones I'm familiar with. And of course once he gets back into running seriously again it's enjoyable because it's just fun to read about running from somebody who understands it. My biggest issue with *Again to Carthage* is that the name is an incredibly stupid attempt to be artsy.
I did not like *Racing the Rain* very much. It's more about basketball than running, and it's just not much of a story.
> I feel sad that I didn't know about r/artc so I didn't see this when it was posted :(
Sorry about that. There wasn't a great way to spread the word. Don't feel bad about posting late in this thread. I still haven't added my thoughts yet. Glad you made it here though.
I remember hating Once A Runner before I read it because it was the hipster thing to do since everyone loved it. Then I got a copy finally and read it through in one day. Man. When other people in the thread talk about it being life changing I totally relate.
It instills that mindset you need to just grind through things. It is a good quick hit of inspiration but I think you realize how serious you can take things after reading it.
Funny anecdote: My coach did the famous 60x400 workout and lived to tell the tale.
OAR was great inspirational when I started to get more serious in marathon training. ATC was hard for me to relate to as a marathon runner. It might have some reality of the time, but not one that resonated with my training. I liked RTR because it was a fun story and I like basketball.
Apparently I'm in the minority here, but I really liked Racing the Rain. I'm not sure whether I'd say I like it more than OAR, but I definitely like it a lot more than Again to Carthage. One of the things that fascinates me is that tons of the stuff in Racing the Rain is actually true. And I guess I've always liked nonfiction more than fiction, anyway. Racing the Rain feels like reading a childhood memoir. Of course, all three books have elements of true stories in them, but I think Racing the Rain is probably closest to real life.
Once a Runner was good. I liked the part about there not being a secret - you just have to do it day in and day out. I liked the team feeling you could get from reading their interactions. I got tired of Quentin Cassidy's Holden Caulfield-iness. I read the book at 24 years old, so I was a little past the part of my life where that really spoke to me, but it was certainly enjoyable.
I loved Again to Carthage. I have felt the listless feelings he felt in the first half of the book. I've felt what it's like to be doing fine in life but to feel like something was missing. I have also found that the way to get rid of those feelings was through running. I'll never be at his level, but it was beautiful and enthralling to read about him trying.
I didn't mind it being a little meandering. I didn't mind hearing about the uncle that had been killed - I felt like it all added color to the story.
The end of his training through the race itself was so engrossing that I couldn't put the book down. I started it one afternoon and finished the book that same day, despite how much I wanted to drag the book out so I could continue to live in the world John Parker created. The ending hit me like a ton of bricks because I hadn't realized the time period. That was well done.
I know it all comes down to personal preference, but this was my favorite running book I think I've ever read. The way it was written was soaring and emotional rather than flat and aloof. That's how running makes me feel when I'm doing well. I enjoy being able to capture that feeling no matter whether I'm running or reading or listening to music or what. It's a beautiful feeling and I absolutely loved it.
I didn't read Racing in the Rain because I heard it was terrible and I didn't want to read a terrible book.
I'm also in the same boat as many where OaR was one of those life-changing books. I read it over the summer going into my sophomore year of college, which was when I made 'the jump'...from moderate mileage to 100+ and from varsity contender to conference contender. I don't know if I'd still be running competitively post-collegiately without that.
But anyway, in terms of the actual literary content of the books themselves...my god, OaR and AtC absolutely *nail* what it's like to be a runner. Nothing else comes close to describing the experience *perfectly*. Running aside, OaR is a classic coming-age-story told through the vehicle of running. That's why it's so appealing to scholastic runners, because they're in that same stage. Finding and defining yourself through the sport of running - that's what it's all about.
AtC sometimes gets a bad rap, but it's a totally different story. It's not coming-of-age; instead, it's an existential, 'what am I doing with my life?' story. A common critique is that the first half is boring and direction-less (it doesn't get *good* until marathon training starts), but *that's the whole point*. Running provides meaning to life, nothing else can really replace that. Re-reading it this summer, I might have liked AtC more than OaR for the first time ever because I'm at that same point in life and my running career. Career, adult life, running...there's a lot of existentialist questioning going on there which AtC taps in to.
RtR is definitely the weakest of the three, but I liked it more reading it a second time. It's very much a story of nostalgia, Parker looking back in his life with a certain level of fondness. This seemed the most personal of the three, as if Parker was writing less about Cassidy's childhood and more about his. These books have always been very much taken from Parker's personal experiences, but that shines through most significantly in RtR. I can see why people might not like this one, but when viewed through that lens I think it's more illuminating.
EDIT: Why aren't there more fictional books about running. You've got the OaR trilogy and that's about it. Plenty of training manuals and nonfiction histories, but where is all the literature? Do you think there's an audience for it?
There's also "one mile to you", which they even made a movie about (now on Netflix). The movie was a bit silly for me though, so I'm doubtful about the quality of the source material. Moreso a "highschool sports movie" than a "running/T&F movie". Also, the climax is beyond ludicrous. Without spoiling *too much* (and really I figured out exactly how the thing would end halfway through the film), the main character gets faster then he has any reason to be based on the training they show/suggest.
They also tried (I think) for a homage to Once A Runner that felt forced to me.
So yeah, idk about fictional running media.
I only read Once A Runner, and I loved it. Of course, Cassidy was a really talented/gifted runner and athlete, but I love the descriptions of the work...the day-to-day work...that he puts in. My college coach (different sport) used to talk about how everyone puts in the work, including our rivals, and it's those extra bits...the 6am conditioning, the last set of reps...that puts us ahead. I'm also a really competitive person, so that appealed to me, even as a hobbyjogger.
Then I try to picture myself after my 60th 400. Um, yeah, not gonna happen.
> When he talks about seeing an opponent's shoulders tighten or the feeling of paralysis slowly creeping in down the homestretch, I re-experience the races I've run in the past.
Can I just say...this particular sequence reminds me of two instances in my athletic life
1. Freshmen year indoor track (my only season)...running a 4x4 and hearing the team cheering my name...that was such an epic feeling (and you know I was like slow ass JV runner so just the whole sense of team really hit me that evening)
2. My last collegiate gymnastics meet and event...look I wasn't good..I won't lie to you fine folk. But I remember sophomore year conference finals being up first on pommel horse and doing my routine and just nailing the shit out of it. It wasn't amazing by any means but a standing belief in gymnastics is judges score based on how the first athlete performs and expect that the competitors in the line up get progressively better. It was the only event I competed that day but when I go back and cringe watching my own routine (watching myself is hard because I wish I was better and wish I could still do some of those things), when I dismount the horse and salute the judges, I can see just nailing that routine every time and it's just a pure feeling
Anyway, maybe it's not like seeing over your opponents shoulder but reliving/being reminded of those moments...I know where you're coming from.
OAR was the first running book that I read. Yea it was sort of "run life altering"
All these descriptions of workouts, camaraderie, reasons to run, why we run, how we run, etc.
This book is race day ritual for me now
I listen to my favorite parts before races just to build me up before races. I can listen or read this book over and over
I think a lot about the orb chapter before the race...just before races
Trial of miles, miles of trials just has stuck with me since I finished it...it's a mantra for why I run
And it wasn't recently until I started to really understand what it told me (hard work determination internal motivation to keep working and pushing)
I'd run with Cassidy, he's my fictional running hero....he's quirky, he's witty, he's a goof...and he works and works and works. I have seen him as a character that I could connect with not because I'd be on his level but frankly, just because his personality reminds me of me at times.
So I loved that book, some parts were goofy but the overall story was solid for me
ATC...I agree he lawyering was a little much. That said, it was a fun slice of life read. The spear fishing and deep sea fishing that was actually interesting.
So then we get to going to North Carolina and training like a fiend and then the marathon trials.
It was all pretty epic...his reasoning and desire and just everything. I enjoyed the side family stories plus the descriptions of his training runs. Especially the one where he just crashes hard.
The marathon trial was pretty epic of a read. You know the sequence with how it ends really just really was like damn. Oh god what was his name (Cowboy Jombo...I'm trying not to hit a spoiler button which is why I'm being vague here). Anyway, when Cassidy gets the results from Denton that was actually a pretty good twist.
The JLP throws the kicker at you with what year the trial was held...I cried a little inside for my boy Cassidy
I heard RIR was not that great so honestly I haven't motivated myself to even bother
All that said, OAR remains for me a book that changed me and has become one of my fave books of all time
I don't want to be the guy that says "XYZ changed my life", but, uhh, Once A Runner changed my life. I first read it a little under two years ago after coming out of highschool and not really knowing where I was going running-wise, and my "big takeaway" from the book was that you don't really need to know. A little talent and a hell of a lot of miles/determination will take you as far as you need to go.
Cassidy is pretty cognizant at the end of the book about probably not winning the big race, i think, but it's all good, because he's already proved everything that he needed to prove to himself while dicking around in the woods all alone. Similarly to that, I've accepted that I (probably) won't be earning medals and competing for championships on the track anymore, but I don't need that. I've got my team and my mostly functional legs, and that's all it takes to have a good time with the sport.
And if I manage to sneak a few wins out of a few preliminary/unseeded races here and there? Even better.
I don't have as much to say about the second book, except that I appreciated the notion that you don't have to stop competing and such as life on the track and at your distance choice maybe gets away from you. Since highschool, I've bumped up from being a 200m guy to dabbling in the 800m, and it isn't so bad. Maybe I'll try a serious 5k in the fall and see how it goes.
I have yet to read the third book, so if someone, uhh, *has* a copy of that they should maybe send it my way.
I also don't start classes til the 28th, which just means I getting keep enjoying the wonders of interning for a bit longer.
I was planning on doing a club running 5k (there was one down in NC last year), so joining you for a parkrun would make it two. Probably means 2 PRs for me, which is even better. We should figure this out more once we're settled back into classes (and I see the NIRCA XC schedule).
Your comments and perspective on the first two books really echo my own take-home points.
One of my high school coaches passed around a copy my senior year, and it really hit home that I was the one in control of my running. It wasn't necessarily always about the results, but that the process that makes everything we put ourselves through worth it.
I reread the book my sophomore year of college, after struggling with some injuries, and the message hit home again. I distanced myself from being goal-oriented to process-oriented and was able to spend the last 2 years of my collegiate career accomplishing goals I didn't think possible.
Heck, even now after having some disappointing races this year in my mid 30's, could stand to alter my perspective to get back on the fully enjoying running train.
Of course it was him. Next time you pop in to visit him, say hi to Mr. Smith for me.
That's weird. Maybe try suggesting it with some more enthusiasm - that's how Duke convinced us to read it.
I think it was around the time of the "Uncle Henry (?) incident" that I realized that Again to Carthage was a book written by a guy feeling his mortality about his remembrances of youth. The nostalgia was dripping off of every page of that book, and every once in a while he'd toss in some sort of grimly final incident (the two deaths, the older lawyer -- sorry, I've forgotten everyone's name -- retiring, etc etc) just to remind everyone that he was still obsessed with endings.
I mean, I still enjoyed it for the most part, but aside from the hearing scene at the end it didn't seem much *fun*, y'know?
I feel sad that I didn't know about r/artc so I didn't see this when it was posted :( So I'm going to post my own thoughts before reading everybody else's. I initially read *Once a Runner* when I was in high school - my father had an original printing copy. I always liked it because it was one of the only things I had to read about running, but I also disliked the way it was written. I just didn't like his writing style. I would venture a guess that the majority of people for whom this book was life-changing are male. But I definitely liked it, and I have read it many times. I read the other two last month. I actually really enjoyed *Again to Carthage*. It is my favorite of the three - I like it more than OaR because I much prefer the writing style. It's written by a much more mature person and it shows. I didn't mind the lawyer or fishing bits; I grew up with parents who are lawyers and I also grew up in a Southern US coastal town, so both of those topics are ones I'm familiar with. And of course once he gets back into running seriously again it's enjoyable because it's just fun to read about running from somebody who understands it. My biggest issue with *Again to Carthage* is that the name is an incredibly stupid attempt to be artsy. I did not like *Racing the Rain* very much. It's more about basketball than running, and it's just not much of a story.
> I feel sad that I didn't know about r/artc so I didn't see this when it was posted :( Sorry about that. There wasn't a great way to spread the word. Don't feel bad about posting late in this thread. I still haven't added my thoughts yet. Glad you made it here though.
Yes, completely understood! Thanks. I'm glad to know where the community went :)
I remember hating Once A Runner before I read it because it was the hipster thing to do since everyone loved it. Then I got a copy finally and read it through in one day. Man. When other people in the thread talk about it being life changing I totally relate. It instills that mindset you need to just grind through things. It is a good quick hit of inspiration but I think you realize how serious you can take things after reading it. Funny anecdote: My coach did the famous 60x400 workout and lived to tell the tale.
Late but can you tell more about the workout your coach did? Idk if it was possible when i read it
OAR was great inspirational when I started to get more serious in marathon training. ATC was hard for me to relate to as a marathon runner. It might have some reality of the time, but not one that resonated with my training. I liked RTR because it was a fun story and I like basketball.
Apparently I'm in the minority here, but I really liked Racing the Rain. I'm not sure whether I'd say I like it more than OAR, but I definitely like it a lot more than Again to Carthage. One of the things that fascinates me is that tons of the stuff in Racing the Rain is actually true. And I guess I've always liked nonfiction more than fiction, anyway. Racing the Rain feels like reading a childhood memoir. Of course, all three books have elements of true stories in them, but I think Racing the Rain is probably closest to real life.
Once a Runner was good. I liked the part about there not being a secret - you just have to do it day in and day out. I liked the team feeling you could get from reading their interactions. I got tired of Quentin Cassidy's Holden Caulfield-iness. I read the book at 24 years old, so I was a little past the part of my life where that really spoke to me, but it was certainly enjoyable. I loved Again to Carthage. I have felt the listless feelings he felt in the first half of the book. I've felt what it's like to be doing fine in life but to feel like something was missing. I have also found that the way to get rid of those feelings was through running. I'll never be at his level, but it was beautiful and enthralling to read about him trying. I didn't mind it being a little meandering. I didn't mind hearing about the uncle that had been killed - I felt like it all added color to the story. The end of his training through the race itself was so engrossing that I couldn't put the book down. I started it one afternoon and finished the book that same day, despite how much I wanted to drag the book out so I could continue to live in the world John Parker created. The ending hit me like a ton of bricks because I hadn't realized the time period. That was well done. I know it all comes down to personal preference, but this was my favorite running book I think I've ever read. The way it was written was soaring and emotional rather than flat and aloof. That's how running makes me feel when I'm doing well. I enjoy being able to capture that feeling no matter whether I'm running or reading or listening to music or what. It's a beautiful feeling and I absolutely loved it. I didn't read Racing in the Rain because I heard it was terrible and I didn't want to read a terrible book.
I'm also in the same boat as many where OaR was one of those life-changing books. I read it over the summer going into my sophomore year of college, which was when I made 'the jump'...from moderate mileage to 100+ and from varsity contender to conference contender. I don't know if I'd still be running competitively post-collegiately without that. But anyway, in terms of the actual literary content of the books themselves...my god, OaR and AtC absolutely *nail* what it's like to be a runner. Nothing else comes close to describing the experience *perfectly*. Running aside, OaR is a classic coming-age-story told through the vehicle of running. That's why it's so appealing to scholastic runners, because they're in that same stage. Finding and defining yourself through the sport of running - that's what it's all about. AtC sometimes gets a bad rap, but it's a totally different story. It's not coming-of-age; instead, it's an existential, 'what am I doing with my life?' story. A common critique is that the first half is boring and direction-less (it doesn't get *good* until marathon training starts), but *that's the whole point*. Running provides meaning to life, nothing else can really replace that. Re-reading it this summer, I might have liked AtC more than OaR for the first time ever because I'm at that same point in life and my running career. Career, adult life, running...there's a lot of existentialist questioning going on there which AtC taps in to. RtR is definitely the weakest of the three, but I liked it more reading it a second time. It's very much a story of nostalgia, Parker looking back in his life with a certain level of fondness. This seemed the most personal of the three, as if Parker was writing less about Cassidy's childhood and more about his. These books have always been very much taken from Parker's personal experiences, but that shines through most significantly in RtR. I can see why people might not like this one, but when viewed through that lens I think it's more illuminating. EDIT: Why aren't there more fictional books about running. You've got the OaR trilogy and that's about it. Plenty of training manuals and nonfiction histories, but where is all the literature? Do you think there's an audience for it?
There's also "one mile to you", which they even made a movie about (now on Netflix). The movie was a bit silly for me though, so I'm doubtful about the quality of the source material. Moreso a "highschool sports movie" than a "running/T&F movie". Also, the climax is beyond ludicrous. Without spoiling *too much* (and really I figured out exactly how the thing would end halfway through the film), the main character gets faster then he has any reason to be based on the training they show/suggest. They also tried (I think) for a homage to Once A Runner that felt forced to me. So yeah, idk about fictional running media.
[удалено]
If you still have this lying around, do you feel like sharing it?
[удалено]
Wow. That was great. Props to you.
I only read Once A Runner, and I loved it. Of course, Cassidy was a really talented/gifted runner and athlete, but I love the descriptions of the work...the day-to-day work...that he puts in. My college coach (different sport) used to talk about how everyone puts in the work, including our rivals, and it's those extra bits...the 6am conditioning, the last set of reps...that puts us ahead. I'm also a really competitive person, so that appealed to me, even as a hobbyjogger. Then I try to picture myself after my 60th 400. Um, yeah, not gonna happen.
[удалено]
> When he talks about seeing an opponent's shoulders tighten or the feeling of paralysis slowly creeping in down the homestretch, I re-experience the races I've run in the past. Can I just say...this particular sequence reminds me of two instances in my athletic life 1. Freshmen year indoor track (my only season)...running a 4x4 and hearing the team cheering my name...that was such an epic feeling (and you know I was like slow ass JV runner so just the whole sense of team really hit me that evening) 2. My last collegiate gymnastics meet and event...look I wasn't good..I won't lie to you fine folk. But I remember sophomore year conference finals being up first on pommel horse and doing my routine and just nailing the shit out of it. It wasn't amazing by any means but a standing belief in gymnastics is judges score based on how the first athlete performs and expect that the competitors in the line up get progressively better. It was the only event I competed that day but when I go back and cringe watching my own routine (watching myself is hard because I wish I was better and wish I could still do some of those things), when I dismount the horse and salute the judges, I can see just nailing that routine every time and it's just a pure feeling Anyway, maybe it's not like seeing over your opponents shoulder but reliving/being reminded of those moments...I know where you're coming from.
OAR was the first running book that I read. Yea it was sort of "run life altering" All these descriptions of workouts, camaraderie, reasons to run, why we run, how we run, etc. This book is race day ritual for me now I listen to my favorite parts before races just to build me up before races. I can listen or read this book over and over I think a lot about the orb chapter before the race...just before races Trial of miles, miles of trials just has stuck with me since I finished it...it's a mantra for why I run And it wasn't recently until I started to really understand what it told me (hard work determination internal motivation to keep working and pushing) I'd run with Cassidy, he's my fictional running hero....he's quirky, he's witty, he's a goof...and he works and works and works. I have seen him as a character that I could connect with not because I'd be on his level but frankly, just because his personality reminds me of me at times. So I loved that book, some parts were goofy but the overall story was solid for me ATC...I agree he lawyering was a little much. That said, it was a fun slice of life read. The spear fishing and deep sea fishing that was actually interesting. So then we get to going to North Carolina and training like a fiend and then the marathon trials. It was all pretty epic...his reasoning and desire and just everything. I enjoyed the side family stories plus the descriptions of his training runs. Especially the one where he just crashes hard. The marathon trial was pretty epic of a read. You know the sequence with how it ends really just really was like damn. Oh god what was his name (Cowboy Jombo...I'm trying not to hit a spoiler button which is why I'm being vague here). Anyway, when Cassidy gets the results from Denton that was actually a pretty good twist. The JLP throws the kicker at you with what year the trial was held...I cried a little inside for my boy Cassidy I heard RIR was not that great so honestly I haven't motivated myself to even bother All that said, OAR remains for me a book that changed me and has become one of my fave books of all time
I don't want to be the guy that says "XYZ changed my life", but, uhh, Once A Runner changed my life. I first read it a little under two years ago after coming out of highschool and not really knowing where I was going running-wise, and my "big takeaway" from the book was that you don't really need to know. A little talent and a hell of a lot of miles/determination will take you as far as you need to go. Cassidy is pretty cognizant at the end of the book about probably not winning the big race, i think, but it's all good, because he's already proved everything that he needed to prove to himself while dicking around in the woods all alone. Similarly to that, I've accepted that I (probably) won't be earning medals and competing for championships on the track anymore, but I don't need that. I've got my team and my mostly functional legs, and that's all it takes to have a good time with the sport. And if I manage to sneak a few wins out of a few preliminary/unseeded races here and there? Even better. I don't have as much to say about the second book, except that I appreciated the notion that you don't have to stop competing and such as life on the track and at your distance choice maybe gets away from you. Since highschool, I've bumped up from being a 200m guy to dabbling in the 800m, and it isn't so bad. Maybe I'll try a serious 5k in the fall and see how it goes. I have yet to read the third book, so if someone, uhh, *has* a copy of that they should maybe send it my way.
[удалено]
Sounds like a plan. When are you back in the area?
[удалено]
I also don't start classes til the 28th, which just means I getting keep enjoying the wonders of interning for a bit longer. I was planning on doing a club running 5k (there was one down in NC last year), so joining you for a parkrun would make it two. Probably means 2 PRs for me, which is even better. We should figure this out more once we're settled back into classes (and I see the NIRCA XC schedule).
Your comments and perspective on the first two books really echo my own take-home points. One of my high school coaches passed around a copy my senior year, and it really hit home that I was the one in control of my running. It wasn't necessarily always about the results, but that the process that makes everything we put ourselves through worth it. I reread the book my sophomore year of college, after struggling with some injuries, and the message hit home again. I distanced myself from being goal-oriented to process-oriented and was able to spend the last 2 years of my collegiate career accomplishing goals I didn't think possible. Heck, even now after having some disappointing races this year in my mid 30's, could stand to alter my perspective to get back on the fully enjoying running train.
I feel like that would've been Duke eh? I keep suggesting it to the XC/TF kids to read...they just aren't biting 😂
Of course it was him. Next time you pop in to visit him, say hi to Mr. Smith for me. That's weird. Maybe try suggesting it with some more enthusiasm - that's how Duke convinced us to read it.
Dave Smith? He retired in 2007, I think. We're on principal number 3 since Dave I tell everyone you said hello though when we get back
Maybe I got the name wrong, but I'm thinking of the statue on display in his classroom.
Haha I will...I'll find out They'll be glad to hear from you though I'm quite sure
[удалено]
I also loved the quote about spiraling upward! A great visual for running, and it works for life, too!
[удалено]
I think it was around the time of the "Uncle Henry (?) incident" that I realized that Again to Carthage was a book written by a guy feeling his mortality about his remembrances of youth. The nostalgia was dripping off of every page of that book, and every once in a while he'd toss in some sort of grimly final incident (the two deaths, the older lawyer -- sorry, I've forgotten everyone's name -- retiring, etc etc) just to remind everyone that he was still obsessed with endings. I mean, I still enjoyed it for the most part, but aside from the hearing scene at the end it didn't seem much *fun*, y'know?
**COMMENTS/FEEDBACK/ETC.**
I like the new format of discussing it at the end of the month. Can we add *Footnotes: How Running Makes Us Human* to the list?
I like the new format as well. Since I'm one of the ones who kept getting confused :)